Updated Bamber scenario. Matching crime scene evidence.

[Adam]

No Adam with your scenario Bamber would have been arrested the next day, that's not a flaw sorry.

Why? The scenario matches the crime scene evidence.

Similar to posting forensic evidence with sources, not sure what else can be done.

[Adam]

He does not state the time in his WS Adam but I checked online.

Can you post the link. Standard practice on here.

[Rob_]

Can you post the link. Standard practice on here.

It's covered in one of the podcasts if you search for bamber and wilkinson.

[Valanking]

Hi.

Has anyone recreated loading the rifle with very long nails and then testing for grease?

Is there a video of it?

Probably isn't I'm guessing.

[JackieD]

Hi.

Has anyone recreated loading the rifle with very long nails and then testing for grease?

Is there a video of it?

Probably isn't I'm guessing.

I’m not sure, but something that should be done

[Rob_]

Hi.

Has anyone recreated loading the rifle with very long nails and then testing for grease?

Is there a video of it?

Probably isn't I'm guessing.

The bathroom light was on so a good chance that SC washed her face/hands at some point?

[Valanking]

Possibly.

How about long nails loading bullets... And fighting Neville and no broken nails...

[Adam]

The bathroom light was on so a good chance that SC washed her face/hands at some point?

Kindly supply the source.

[guest29835]

Possibly.

How about long nails loading bullets... And fighting Neville and no broken nails...

One thing that this case teaches you more than any other is that you can never assume that what 'everybody knows' is actually true.

Everybody says she had 'long' to 'very long nails', but the photographs of her body do not show this.  Look for yourself.

In any case, why must long nails be an obstacle to loading bullet cartridges, if she wanted to load cartridges?  I can see why they may make it more difficult, but it doesn't make it impossible.

Why would she have broken nails if fighting Nevill?  Women with long nails (assuming Sheila did have long nails) can fight without breaking their nails. 

It's also never considered how Sheila having long nails (if she did) would be an additional advantage for her over Nevill.  Other advantages would be the fact she is a woman and his daughter, making him more reluctant to tackle her, and the fact she was much smaller and lighter than Nevill and probably fleeter of foot than he.
 
But why assume she had to fight with Nevill anyway?

On the matter of grease, I assume you are referring to the beeswax, which is used on Eley ammunition as bullet lubricant. 

The defence case theory was that Sheila washed herself.  This was supported by an eminent pathologist who gave the opinion that a murder-suicider may ritually wash herself.  We have the hand swab tests on the Forum and David has commented on this and said that the results do not preclude Sheila having handled and used ammunition and a rifle, but in practical terms, I am not convinced she would have got much beeswax on her hands or that a swab test would detect this to any great extent. 

She was picking up the cartridges and placing them immediately in a magazine. Wouldn't the wax residue stick to her fingers, rather than palms?  Were the fingers swabbed and tested?  Isn't it likely that she would probably wipe the beeswax off her fingers of her own accord, perhaps still leaving some traces on her fingers, but possibly not enough to be detected?

[Adam]

The condition of Sheila Caffell's body and her clothing 47.

The firearms officers who were the first to see her body noted that her feet and hands were "perfectly clean".

Her fingernails were well manicured and not broken and there were no marks or indentations on any of her fingers.

All her fingertips were clean and free from any blood, dirt or powder and there appeared to be no trace of any lead dust or coating which is usual when handling .22 ammunition.

48.

The act of loading the magazine of an automatic weapon (carried out at least twice in this case) would be expected to leave visible traces of the lubricant and the materials from the bullets on the hands.

49.

DC Hammersley, the Scenes of Crimes Officer placed plastic bags over Sheila Caffell's hands and feet before her body was removed from the farmhouse. He saw some blood staining to the back of the right hand, but apart from that the hands, to his eye were clean and the nails intact.

The deceased's feet were also free from blood staining and from any debris such as sugar.

[guest29835]

This is all well and good, but it doesn't really alter my observations above, and much of it is not actually true anyway.  We know it is not true because we have the photographs and we each have eyes to see for ourselves.

The condition of Sheila Caffell's body and her clothing 47.

The firearms officers who were the first to see her body noted that her feet and hands were "perfectly clean".

But they weren't perfectly clean.  The observations of the men on the scene are disproved by the photographs.

Her fingernails were well manicured and not broken and there were no marks or indentations on any of her fingers.

So what?  See my post above.

All her fingertips were clean and free from any blood, dirt or powder and there appeared to be no trace of any lead dust or coating which is usual when handling .22 ammunition.

How can her fingertips be clean if she's lying on the floor in blood having been shot by Jeremy or shot herself? 

Dirt and powder would not always be easily observable to the naked eye, especially if she washed herself.

48.

The act of loading the magazine of an automatic weapon (carried out at least twice in this case) would be expected to leave visible traces of the lubricant and the materials from the bullets on the hands.

Why?  It's beeswax.  It's sticky and she was using her fingers.

49.

DC Hammersley, the Scenes of Crimes Officer placed plastic bags over Sheila Caffell's hands and feet before her body was removed from the farmhouse. He saw some blood staining to the back of the right hand, but apart from that the hands, to his eye were clean and the nails intact.

The deceased's feet were also free from blood staining and from any debris such as sugar.

You can see from the photographs that his observations were wrong.

Also, let's assume Sheila was as clean as they say.  Has it occurred to you that this could be interpreted the other way and be seen as support for the theory that she washed herself? 

[Adam]

One photograph in 36 years of a foot with redness is not enough.

I have to go with the mountain of COA evidence.

[guest29835]

One photograph in 36 years of a foot with redness is not enough.

I have to go with the mountain of COA evidence.

Translation: I'm ignoring any evidence that doesn't fit my agenda.

[Valanking]

How did Neville get beaten so badly then?

Why after suffering 4 shots upstairs did he even bother to pick up a telephone.. Especially when Sheila Chase him downstairs...

His energy and immediate reaction would be to survive and fight...and apparently lose to sheila...who then popped more shells in him.

Also...it's odd how a person with a psychotic episode planned ahead  where to place the bullets in the house for reloading isn't it. We all know her nightie had no pockets.

She must have  knew Neville would chase her downstairs.

[guest29835]

How did Neville get beaten so badly then?

With the butt of the rifle.  How else?  And why not with her nails too?  Women can inflict injuries on men.

Why after suffering 4 shots upstairs did he even bother to pick up a telephone.. Especially when Sheila Chase him downstairs...

He could have phoned Jeremy before Sheila started shooting.

His energy and immediate reaction would be to survive and fight...and apparently lose to sheila...who then popped more shells in him.

Of course, but he would be conflicted in his mind because it's his daughter and she's a young woman and mother.  If Sheila can escape from him and run for the stairs, she would then fire back at him as he chases her and cause him to run back towards the kitchen.

Also...it's odd how a person with a psychotic episode planned ahead  where to place the bullets in the house for reloading isn't it. We all know her nightie had no pockets.

I don't understand why you think that must indicate prior planning on the part of the killer.  The magazine was loaded.  She had seen Jeremy leave the gun out in the back corridor.  There was ammunition in the kitchen.  It was opportunistic - if she was the killer.

She must have  knew Neville would chase her downstairs.

And Jeremy would know that too?  Instead of just killing Nevill in bed?  That problem you identify there is surely more for a Jeremy scenario.  In a Sheila scenario, she would shoot Nevill on the stairs as he is chasing her.  They then return to the kitchen as Nevill wishes to draw her back there rather than allow her upstairs; and he thinks he can tackle her in the kitchen, but he underestimates her and he is already wounded.  She kills him and still has cartridges left in the magazine, so simply goes upstairs and fires until she realises the magazine is empty, then remembers the ammunition in the kitchen and returns downstairs to reload.