Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Alias on June 22, 2011, 08:48:PM

Title: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: Alias on June 22, 2011, 08:48:PM
Is it not alleged that Jeremy (if we assume he did it, or some other intruder), on the night of the murders, entered WHF through the downstairs bathroom window and exited through the kitchen window?
Now, I have no problem with someone crawling in through the bathroom window, assuming that all the lights in the house had been turned off for the night; but I do have a problem with Jeremy (or someone else) crawling out of the kitchen window after having killed everyone in the house. The kitchen was LIT when police and Jeremy arrived at the farm.
 I have a problem seeing ANYONE being so stupid and careless to actually do that, the risk of being seen crawling through the window of a fully lit room must have occurred to the alleged intruder!
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: SUMMER on June 22, 2011, 09:03:PM

abs, was there any physical proof that anyone either entered or left
via either of those windows or is it purely based on what the
prosecution suggested had happened?
From what I have gathered Ann  Eaton did so much cleaning up in
the Farmhouse that very little physical evidence remained. (Things
like traces of blood on the windows perhaps?)
Did the Police find any Forensic evidence around or on those windows/
windowsills?
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: paulg on June 22, 2011, 09:04:PM
Who's going to see someone going through the window? Its screened, and everyone's dead!!

Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: Alias on June 22, 2011, 09:29:PM

abs, was there any physical proof that anyone either entered or left
via either of those windows or is it purely based on what the
prosecution suggested had happened?
From what I have gathered Ann  Eaton did so much cleaning up in
the Farmhouse that very little physical evidence remained. (Things
like traces of blood on the windows perhaps?)
Did the Police find any Forensic evidence around or on those windows/
windowsills?

I don´t think there was actual physical evidence of any of this, but it was alleged that that is how it happened. And I think Ann Eaton claimed that some items on the kitchen table in front of the window were not in their normal place, but seemed to have been pushed aside. Furthermore she said that she thought she saw some marks on or around the window sill, which could resemble blood - but she had cleaned them up!
This is how I remember it - please correct me if I´m wrong.
________________________________________________________

Paulg, what do you mean by screened? I am not sure - sometimes my understanding of English is limited.
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: tyler on June 22, 2011, 10:15:PM
Abs,Im pretty sure that the police agreed that they moved the items around the sink area and caused the watery blood splashes up the window whilst cleaning up the scene.What I just cant seem to understand is why,if JB was supposedly trying to commit the perfect murder,he would leave  behind a hacksaw blade under the window in the grass,a tampon( allegedly used to clean the rifle) in the lounge and a silencer (allegedly used in the murders)in a cupboard.It is these  kind of things that help me believe in his innocence.
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: Alias on June 22, 2011, 10:16:PM
Abs,Im pretty sure that the police agreed that they moved the items around the sink area and caused the watery blood splashes up the window whilst cleaning up the scene.What I just cant seem to understand is why,if JB was supposedly trying to commit the perfect murder,he would leave  behind a hacksaw blade under the window in the grass,a tampon( allegedly used to clean the rifle) in the lounge and a silencer (allegedly used in the murders)in a cupboard.It is these  kind of things that help me believe in his innocence.

Haha, you put it very well. The Inspector Cluseau of criminals...
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: jon on June 22, 2011, 10:34:PM
Abs,Im pretty sure that the police agreed that they moved the items around the sink area and caused the watery blood splashes up the window whilst cleaning up the scene.What I just cant seem to understand is why,if JB was supposedly trying to commit the perfect murder,he would leave  behind a hacksaw blade under the window in the grass,a tampon( allegedly used to clean the rifle) in the lounge and a silencer (allegedly used in the murders)in a cupboard.It is these  kind of things that help me believe in his innocence.
Or why did he say is father called him ? Why not just go to bed and wait ?
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: chochokeira on June 22, 2011, 10:40:PM
Who's going to see someone going through the window? Its screened, and everyone's dead!!


I've read here that one or more neighbours reported hearing a shot earlier in the evening. If there was an early, audible shot, It's not beyond the realms of possibility that this might have been reported to the police at the time, instead of after the murders, and that this report could have resulted in police visiing WHF to investigate. Although it's highly unlikely, a killer could not be certain of being undisturbed.
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: Alias on June 22, 2011, 10:41:PM
Abs,Im pretty sure that the police agreed that they moved the items around the sink area and caused the watery blood splashes up the window whilst cleaning up the scene.What I just cant seem to understand is why,if JB was supposedly trying to commit the perfect murder,he would leave  behind a hacksaw blade under the window in the grass,a tampon( allegedly used to clean the rifle) in the lounge and a silencer (allegedly used in the murders)in a cupboard.It is these  kind of things that help me believe in his innocence.
Or why did he say is father called him ? Why not just go to bed and wait ?

That too.
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: Roch on June 22, 2011, 11:00:PM
Entrance / Exit... sounds like paulg in Lillywhites circa '84  ;D
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: paulg on June 22, 2011, 11:19:PM

abs, was there any physical proof that anyone either entered or left
via either of those windows or is it purely based on what the
prosecution suggested had happened?
From what I have gathered Ann  Eaton did so much cleaning up in
the Farmhouse that very little physical evidence remained. (Things
like traces of blood on the windows perhaps?)
Did the Police find any Forensic evidence around or on those windows/
windowsills?

I don´t think there was actual physical evidence of any of this, but it was alleged that that is how it happened. And I think Ann Eaton claimed that some items on the kitchen table in front of the window were not in their normal place, but seemed to have been pushed aside. Furthermore she said that she thought she saw some marks on or around the window sill, which could resemble blood - but she had cleaned them up!
This is how I remember it - please correct me if I´m wrong.
________________________________________________________

Paulg, what do you mean by screened? I am not sure - sometimes my understanding of English is limited.

There are outbuildings blocking anyone seeing the kitchen window. There's no houses overlooking the WHF, its remote. Check bing maps or something Abs, then use the satelite view.

And Keira, we here gun shots all the time round here, even late at night, i doubt it would cause concern to anyone. Maybe if someone was screaming, it would raise concerns.

And, would Neville leave his weapons and ammo out, if Sheila had fired a shotgun...i really very much doubt it.
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: paulg on June 22, 2011, 11:34:PM
Entrance / Exit... sounds like paulg in Lillywhites circa '84  ;D

Aaah, you've jogged my memory, POP 84 was another shop to raid. :)

Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: tyler on June 23, 2011, 12:48:AM
Paulg,thing is,is that Nevill did in fact leave weapons out.They were scattered about the farmhouse.And even if he had put them away because the boys were staying,as you know there was no lock on the gun cupboard.Sheila may have been very ill,but not ill enough to render her unable to go to the gun cupboard to select a weapon and ammo.I dont think that JB volunteering the information that he had left a gun out necessarily proves his guilt.In fact I think it would have been easier for him not to have mentioned it at all!
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: paulg on June 23, 2011, 01:39:PM
Paulg,thing is,is that Nevill did in fact leave weapons out.They were scattered about the farmhouse.And even if he had put them away because the boys were staying,as you know there was no lock on the gun cupboard.Sheila may have been very ill,but not ill enough to render her unable to go to the gun cupboard to select a weapon and ammo.I dont think that JB volunteering the information that he had left a gun out necessarily proves his guilt.In fact I think it would have been easier for him not to have mentioned it at all!

If you read the thread, my response was to Keira for suggesting a shotgun was fired earlier in the evening at WHF. Some have suggested in the past that it was Sheila firing the weapon in the kitchen.

Do still think he'd leave weapons about if that had happened?
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: tyler on June 23, 2011, 09:56:PM
Oh I see.Sorry Paul   :-[
I read too quickly sometimes and misunderstand.
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: shonapugs on June 23, 2011, 09:59:PM
I find it pretty hard to imagine the family going to bed as usual, if Sheila had fired a shotgun in the kitchen earlier on in the evening.
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: Alias on June 23, 2011, 10:02:PM

abs, was there any physical proof that anyone either entered or left
via either of those windows or is it purely based on what the
prosecution suggested had happened?
From what I have gathered Ann  Eaton did so much cleaning up in
the Farmhouse that very little physical evidence remained. (Things
like traces of blood on the windows perhaps?)
Did the Police find any Forensic evidence around or on those windows/
windowsills?

I don´t think there was actual physical evidence of any of this, but it was alleged that that is how it happened. And I think Ann Eaton claimed that some items on the kitchen table in front of the window were not in their normal place, but seemed to have been pushed aside. Furthermore she said that she thought she saw some marks on or around the window sill, which could resemble blood - but she had cleaned them up!
This is how I remember it - please correct me if I´m wrong.
________________________________________________________

Paulg, what do you mean by screened? I am not sure - sometimes my understanding of English is limited.

There are outbuildings blocking anyone seeing the kitchen window. There's no houses overlooking the WHF, its remote. Check bing maps or something Abs, then use the satelite view.

And Keira, we here gun shots all the time round here, even late at night, i doubt it would cause concern to anyone. Maybe if someone was screaming, it would raise concerns.

And, would Neville leave his weapons and ammo out, if Sheila had fired a shotgun...i really very much doubt it.

Thanks. I thought that when you said screened, you meant the window.
I know the WHF surroundings - I uploaded an aerial shot of it, it is in the picture thread.
I still would not crawl out of a fully lit window after having offed my whole family!
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: Newbury1 on June 24, 2011, 12:36:PM
I find it pretty hard to imagine the family going to bed as usual, if Sheila had fired a shotgun in the kitchen earlier on in the evening.

Hi shona, If a shotgun cartridge was discharged in the kitchen the night before the murders evidence of the blast would be fairly obvious.

I have asked Mike T before where the Raker cartridge, alleged to be associated with this discharge, was supposedly found, but no reply so far. I feel it was not in the kitchen for the reason stated above, but somewhere outside the house (and spent gun cartridges on a farm I'm sure are relatively common).

If a shotgun blast was heard that night I may simply have been let off outside to scare vermin. As far as I can tell there is no indication a shotgun was used in anger against persons (and Shona I am with you on a third party's involvement, with JB's knowledge, and have posted on this some months ago in a debate with Kaldin).
Title: Re: Question About Entrance, Exit
Post by: mike tesko on July 03, 2011, 02:40:PM
I find it pretty hard to imagine the family going to bed as usual, if Sheila had fired a shotgun in the kitchen earlier on in the evening.

Hi shona, If a shotgun cartridge was discharged in the kitchen the night before the murders evidence of the blast would be fairly obvious.

I have asked Mike T before where the Raker cartridge, alleged to be associated with this discharge, was supposedly found, but no reply so far. I feel it was not in the kitchen for the reason stated above, but somewhere outside the house (and spent gun cartridges on a farm I'm sure are relatively common).

If a shotgun blast was heard that night I may simply have been let off outside to scare vermin. As far as I can tell there is no indication a shotgun was used in anger against persons (and Shona I am with you on a third party's involvement, with JB's knowledge, and have posted on this some months ago in a debate with Kaldin).
-------------

My understanding is that the spent "RAKER" cartridge case was found in the beach of the shotgun...

Hope this helps...