Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on September 06, 2019, 09:55:AM
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Nevill would have quickly disarmed Sheila. If in the very unlikely 3am event that she was bare footed, in a nightie & holding a rifle for shooting rabbits. As head of the family he had no choice.
As the only adult male in the house, he could control the 4 others simultaneously if he needed to. He would quickly disarm Sheila, like taking candy from a baby. However there was a very slim chance he would be hit by a torso shot which would not deter or stop him.
Nevill would only have a problem if Sheila was holding a shot gun. Being hit from a shot gun shot would kill Nevill. This would leave the killer free to fire bullets into the other household members & commit suicide.
The sound of the shot gun may have woken June, Daniel & Nicholas and they may have got out of bed. Although it would be surprising if the raised voices downstairs had not already woken them.
There was no possibility Nevill would ever have rung Bamber. So whoever gained access to WHF in the morning would have discovered the bodies.
As everyone knows, the murder weapon was a rifle for shooting rabbits. Nevill would instantly take up the 100% certainly of taking the rifle back. Despite the very slim chance of getting a torso shot in the process.
Wonder if Bamber regrets the shooting rabbits story.
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There were some shotgun cartridges found on stairs, along with a couple of bandoliers. These stairs I believe were also used to get to the upstairs bedrooms.
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Bamber could have said he saw a shot gun in the hall way when he went for supper. He didn't need to say why it was there. It was not his house.
Going out to shoot rabbits, then neither him, June or Nevill putting the rifle away before Nevill not taking the rifle off Sheila, did not happen.
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Nevill would automatically disarm Sheila.
It would be a natural reaction a father, grandfather & husband would take. He was also protecting himself although his 4 relations would be the main reason for his action.
He would not think about getting injured himself as long as his family were safe. Which is again, a natural reaction. Although he would know the chance of getting injured was minor.
Sheila holding a shot gun would mean Nevill would hesitate until he was sure he could make a move. However a rifle for shooting rabbits would result in no hesitation, espescially at 3am when he had work in a few hours.
Either way, there was no possibility of Nevill wanting, needing or being able to make any phone calls.
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Nevill would automatically disarm Sheila.
It would be a natural reaction a father, grandfather & husband would take. He was also protecting himself although his 4 relations would be the main reason for his action.
He would not think about getting injured himself as long as his family were safe. Which is again, a natural reaction. Although he would know the chance of getting injured was minor.
Sheila holding a shot gun would mean Nevill would hesitate until he was sure he could make a move. However a rifle for shooting rabbits would result in no hesitation, espescially at 3am when he had work in a few hours.
Either way, there was no possibility of Nevill wanting, needing or being able to make any phone calls.
Do you not think that if Neville did try to disarm Sheila he would have had to get close enough to her to get hold of the gun. Surely that would have made it possible for her to shoot him in the face/mouth? It may be possible to disarm from behind but if he was facing her it could have cause the injuries he suffered. Just a thought.
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Nevill would have quickly disarmed Sheila. If in the very unlikely 3am event that she was bare footed, in a nightie & holding a rifle for shooting rabbits. As head of the family he had no choice.
As the only adult male in the house, he could control the 4 others simultaneously if he needed to. He would quickly disarm Sheila, like taking candy from a baby. However there was a very slim chance he would be hit by a torso shot which would not deter or stop him.
Nevill would only have a problem if Sheila was holding a shot gun. Being hit from a shot gun shot would kill Nevill. This would leave the killer free to fire bullets into the other household members & commit suicide.
The sound of the shot gun may have woken June, Daniel & Nicholas and they may have got out of bed. Although it would be surprising if the raised voices downstairs had not already woken them.
There was no possibility Nevill would ever have rung Bamber. So whoever gained access to WHF in the morning would have discovered the bodies.
As everyone knows, the murder weapon was a rifle for shooting rabbits. Nevill would instantly take up the 100% certainly of taking the rifle back. Despite the very slim chance of getting a torso shot in the process.
Wonder if Bamber regrets the shooting rabbits story.
Wonder if Adam regrets becoming invested in the wrong side of the case. 8)
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People get engaged in specific parts of the case.
The fact that Nevill as a father, grandfather & husband would act accordingly and instantly resolve the situation, gets lost.
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People get engaged in specific parts of the case.
The fact that Nevill as a father, grandfather & husband would act accordingly and instantly resolve the situation, gets lost.
Chances are that he believed it was his job to protect his family and did exactly that, Adam.....................and ended up dead.
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People get engaged in specific parts of the case.
The fact that Nevill as a father, grandfather & husband would act accordingly and instantly resolve the situation, gets lost.
Its not a fact Adam. Its something you have made up to preclude the Sheila scenario in your own mind.
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Its not a fact Adam. Its something you have made up to preclude the Sheila scenario in your own mind.
Nevill was -
6.4
15 stone
A farmer
A father
A husband
A grandfather
Had work the following day.
Was faced by a woman less half his size and strenght.
Was faced with a rifle for shooting rabbits.
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There was only one possible outcome. Nevill had no choice. Probably within a few seconds of Nevill seeing Sheila holding the rifle.
Either taking the rifle when close enough to her, or using an object such as a chair to corner Sheila.
Ringing Jeremy, really.
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Nevill was -
6.4
15 stone
A farmer
A father
A husband
A grandfather
Had work the following day.
Was faced by a woman less half his size and strenght.
Was faced with a rifle for shooting rabbits.
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There was only one possible outcome. Nevill had no choice. Probably within a few seconds of Nevill seeing Sheila holding the rifle.
Either when close enough to her, or using an object such as a chair to corner Sheila.
Ringing Jeremy, really.
Does not matter how tall he was, nobody is bullet proof Adam.
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Ringing Jeremy, really.
This is what Jeremy claims and always has. There are no serious discrepancies in his account of this. Nothing substantial to contradict it either. The fact Sheila was later found with the gun on her while in a house fully secured from the inside corroborates his account. The claim that Jeremy set it all up is not evidence its a narrative.
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This is what Jeremy claims and always has. There are no serious discrepancies in his account of this. Nothing substantial to contradict it either. The fact Sheila was later found with the gun on her while in a house fully secured from the inside corroborates his account. The claim that Jeremy set it all up is not evidence its a narrative.
How did she reload the gun in time to discharge further bullets whilst being noted to be unsteady on her feet those last few days?
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How did she reload the gun in time to discharge further bullets whilst being noted to be unsteady on her feet those last few days?
After the first volley of 9 shots, both June and Nevill were in no state to challenge her. Time is not a problem once the two other adults are in a fatal condition.
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After the first volley of 9 shots, both June and Nevill were in no state to challenge her. Time is not a problem once the two other adults are in a fatal condition.
But apparently Nevill is in such a congenial state that he is able to telephone Jeremy. The blood groupings also suggest that he moved downstairs at some point.
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But apparently Nevill is in such a congenial state that he is able to telephone Jeremy. The blood groupings also suggest that he moved downstairs at some point.
No. Common sense dictates that he made the call prior to getting shot in the first place.
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Steve, this statement from the coroner caught my eye today.
"The bodies were then laid out in the viewing room at the mortuary and Miss Julie MUGFORD attended at 4.35pm that same day and identified each body to me. She was very deliberate and pointed to each body and took care to note the slight old scars in the case of the twin boys. She did not appear to be unduly distressed and was not hasty about the identifications."
As you see it: Having known Jeremy done this, she must be one very cold fish!
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No. Common sense dictates that he made the call prior to getting shot in the first place.
You simply don't understand the relationship between Jeremy and both parents.
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Steve, this statement from the coroner caught my eye today.
"The bodies were then laid out in the viewing room at the mortuary and Miss Julie MUGFORD attended at 4.35pm that same day and identified each body to me. She was very deliberate and pointed to each body and took care to note the slight old scars in the case of the twin boys. She did not appear to be unduly distressed and was not hasty about the identifications."
As you see it: Having known Jeremy done this, she must be one very cold fish!
Completely irrelevant to the thread title.
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The two main options available to Nevill were -
Take the rifle off Sheila when near to her - arms lenght/3 to 4 feet away.
Use an object such as a chair or stool to charge and corner Sheila.
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Either should provide guaranteed success.
No chance of Sheila firing a shot if Nevill goes to disarm her when he is a few feet away.
If Nevill charged Sheila with a object protecting his face and torso, Sheila would only have a second to aim at the legs.
The actual wrestling for the rifle will only be a few seconds. Nevill was twice as big & strong.
Nevill would not stand for anything so riduculous at 3am, from anyone in the household. He would probably be angry & sympathetic towards Sheila & would tell CC what happened the following day. It is likely June will be awake & know what happened.
Nevill would not tell Bamber what happened the following day.
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I'm afraid Sheila's delusions got in the way of a family living happily ever after !
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The kitchen is not huge. The rifle if being pointed would cover several feet of it
It is likely Nevill got very near to Sheila & the rifle while she was holding it. If not, there were plenty of objects he could use to protect himself when moving forward.
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The kitchen is not huge. The rifle if being pointed would cover several feet of it
It is likely Nevill got very near to Sheila & the rifle while she was holding the it. If not, there were plenty of objects he could use to protect himself when moving forward.
That he would have to lose concentration on her to find. There were chairs. He may not have been close enough to reach one. The table, perhaps? He'd have to move a chair. He could hurl something smaller. The shooter had their finger on the trigger. I don't somehow think that he's have risked grasping the barrel when the shooter was holding the business end
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The kitchen is not huge. The rifle if being pointed would cover several feet of it
It is likely Nevill got very near to Sheila & the rifle while she was holding it. If not, there were plenty of objects he could use to protect himself when moving forward.
Hence why it wouldn't have been difficult to have missed a shot---even from an amateur.
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This from the COA -
Nevill Bamber, was 61 at the time of his death. He was a farmer and a local Magistrate and lived with his wife June at White House Farm.
He was a well-built man, 6' 4" tall and in good physical health. Those who knew him spoke of him as a good and fair man.
He kept a number of guns including shotguns and the rifle, which was to feature in the killings, at the farm. He shot on his own farm as well as attending shoots locally.
A number of witnesses called at the trial spoke of the care with which Nevill Bamber treated the weapons kept at the farmhouse. He would clean the guns following use and would not allow them to be left lying around.
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13.
The rifle was a .22 Anshutz automatic rifle. Together with a Parker Hale sound moderator (silencer) and telescopic sights, it had been bought by Nevill Bamber on 30 November 1984. 500 rounds of ammunition had also been purchased.
There was evidence that the gun was used to shoot rabbits and would only ever be used with the sound moderator and the telescopic sights attached. A screwdriver was required to remove the telescopic sights but there was evidence that this was not normally done because of the time it took to realign them.
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Obviously Nevill would know Sheila holding this rifle was no threat to him.
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71.
The rifle bore blood smearing on the barrel in the region of the fore-sight and around the mechanism and there were splashes of blood to the left side of the weapon.
The appearance of the blood staining was consistent with it having been used to strike somebody who was already bleeding. On analysis the blood was found to be human blood but tests to determine grouping were unsuccessful.
A "pull-through" on the barrel of the rifle was conducted for any traces of blood within the weapon. There were none.
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124.
During this conversation the appellant said he saw rabbits outside the house so he took the .22 rifle from the office/den, loaded it with eight to ten rounds from a box of ammunition that he left in the kitchen and went outside.
In fact he fired no shots outside and he then left the gun in the kitchen having removed the magazine and the bullet which was in the breach.
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Does this mean Sheila would have had to load before firing her first shots?
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126.
The appellant said his sister had not previously fired the gun, although she had walked with him when he had been out shooting with his father.
142.
He described his father as reasonably careful with guns and agreed that had Mr Bamber seen the rifle lying around in the kitchen he would have put it away in the gun cupboard.
He agreed it would have taken him 30 seconds to have returned the gun to its cupboard and that he had been lazy.
143.
The appellant confirmed he had not seen his sister fire a gun as an adult.
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Sheila had walked with Jeremy years ago. No wonder Nevill was in a panic when he saw her holding a rifle for shooting rabbits.
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Loaded one or two at a time.
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b)
Save for the appellant nobody had seen her use a gun and she had no interest in them.
Sheila Caffell also had very poor co-ordination and would not have been capable of loading and operating the rifle nor would she have had the required knowledge to do so;
c)
She would not have been able physically to have overcome her father (who was fit, strong and 6' 4" tall) during the struggle which undoubtedly took place before his death in the kitchen.
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These are reasons Nevill would instantly negate the situation. Together with the rifle for shooting rabbits Sheila was holding.
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456.
Mr Hayward also gave evidence about examining a pull through used to examine the inside of the barrel of the rifle itself. He said that there was no blood at all on it. He expressed his conclusion as (Transcript PMS/2 page 18B):
"Since the blood from inside the sound moderator belonged to the same group as Sheila Caffell, and since there was no blood inside the barrel of the rifle, I was led to the conclusion that Sheila Caffell had been shot whilst the sound moderator was fitted to the rifle."
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This is what I meant by 'industrial frame'. The police, relatives and Julie needed help from lots of experts.
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That he would have to lose concentration on her to find. There were chairs. He may not have been close enough to reach one. The table, perhaps? He'd have to move a chair. He could hurl something smaller. The shooter had their finger on the trigger. I don't somehow think that he's have risked grasping the barrel when the shooter was holding the business end
'May not be close enough to reach one'? It was the family kitchen.
A chair would be sufficient. Easy to carry and big enough to protect most of him.
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124.
During this conversation the appellant said he saw rabbits outside the house so he took the .22 rifle from the office/den, loaded it with eight to ten rounds from a box of ammunition that he left in the kitchen and went outside.
In fact he fired no shots outside and he then left the gun in the kitchen having removed the magazine and the bullet which was in the breach.
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Does this mean Sheila would have had to load before firing her first shots?
This is another reason Nevill would disarm Sheila. He would assume the rifle was empty. Unless he also didn't notice Bamber unload it or the magazine in the kitchen.
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'May not be close enough to reach one'? It was the family kitchen.
A chair would be sufficient. Easy to carry and big enough to protect most of him.
And a chair may need to be pulled out from under the table. I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, Adam. I'm pointing out that it's not as clear cut as you're implying it would/might have been. That every second concentration is lost would be in the shooter's favour. Who EVER was the shooter, clearly had more in their favour than did Nevill.
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'May not be close enough to reach one'? It was the family kitchen.
A chair would be sufficient. Easy to carry and big enough to protect most of him.
Not so easy to carry with an injured arm.
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Not so easy to carry with an injured arm.
Injured arm?
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b)
Save for the appellant nobody had seen her use a gun and she had no interest in them.
Sheila Caffell also had very poor co-ordination and would not have been capable of loading and operating the rifle nor would she have had the required knowledge to do so;
c)
She would not have been able physically to have overcome her father (who was fit, strong and 6' 4" tall) during the struggle which undoubtedly took place before his death in the kitchen.
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These are reasons Nevill would instantly negate the situation. Together with the rifle for shooting rabbits Sheila was holding.
The opinion of a judge is not evidence.
David Boutflour admitted to David James Smith in 2010 that Sheila had used his shotgun. Contradicting his 1986 testimony.
Their source for Sheila's "very poor co-ordination" is AE saying she could not put beans on toast.
They knew the police caused the mess in the kitchen, hence they didn't allow DI Cook to take the stand at the appeal hearing in the first place. If they were so confident it "undoubtedly took place" they would had no problem in letting him speak.
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The opinion of a judge is not evidence.
David Boutflour admitted to David James Smith in 2010 that Sheila had used his shotgun. Contradicting his 1986 testimony.
Their source for Sheila's "very poor co-ordination" is AE saying she could not put beans on toast.
They knew the police caused the mess in the kitchen, hence they didn't allow DI Cook to take the stand at the appeal hearing in the first place. If they were so confident it "undoubtedly took place" they would had no problem in letting him speak.
You're clutching at straws.
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456.
Mr Hayward also gave evidence about examining a pull through used to examine the inside of the barrel of the rifle itself. He said that there was no blood at all on it. He expressed his conclusion as (Transcript PMS/2 page 18B):
"Since the blood from inside the sound moderator belonged to the same group as Sheila Caffell, and since there was no blood inside the barrel of the rifle, I was led to the conclusion that Sheila Caffell had been shot whilst the sound moderator was fitted to the rifle."
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This is what I meant by 'industrial frame'. The police, relatives and Julie needed help from lots of experts.
Is that the same Hayward that said the following -
"The blood from the sound moderator (22) could have come from either Sheila Caffell or R W Boutflour"
?
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You're clutching at straws.
Don't project yourself onto me.
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You're clutching at straws.
There was a big life or death kitchen fight between Bamber and Nevill.
There would obviously be no fight between Sheila & Nevill. He would have disarmed her with no fuss. His only difficulty would have been if Sheila was holding a shot gun.
Ringing Jeremy :))
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A Steven Brian Smith had heard gunshots around midnight as he'd walked his dog in fields, coming from the direction of WHF. He did report the incident but his report is probably under the PII rules.
This could well have been used by the prosecution in saying that JB had killed his family between midnight and 3am ! Even though Sheila's prints were found on the shotgun and not Jeremy's.
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A Steven Brian Smith had heard gunshots around midnight as he'd walked his dog in fields, coming from the direction of WHF. He did report the incident but his report is probably under the PII rules.
This could well have been used by the prosecution in saying that JB had killed his family between midnight and 3am ! Even though Sheila's prints were found on the shotgun and not Jeremy's.
Yes that's interesting lookout. I had thought it was a little earlier from my recollection.
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A Steven Brian Smith had heard gunshots around midnight as he'd walked his dog in fields, coming from the direction of WHF. He did report the incident but his report is probably under the PII rules.
This could well have been used by the prosecution in saying that JB had killed his family between midnight and 3am ! Even though Sheila's prints were found on the shotgun and not Jeremy's.
Bamber did not use a shot gun. The rifle made no noise.
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Bamber did not use a shot gun. The rifle made no noise.
I think the insinuation might be that there had been an incident with Sheila earlier than some people believed.
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Bamber did not use a shot gun. The rifle made no noise.
I didn't say he did. This is why Smith heard the shotgun.
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I think the insinuation might be that there had been an incident with Sheila earlier than some people believed.
Steve Sheila may have initially been discharging the shotgun to cause attention and to express how she was beginning to feel at the time. The shotgun noise would obviously have been heard " shortly before midnight " in nearby fields at dead of night but Smith couldn't say how many shots were fired. It could even have been outside somewhere for all we know with Nevill bundling her back indoors and locking everywhere while he was at it.
I wonder if there'd been any shot lying around at the back of the farmhouse ?
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Steve Sheila may have initially been discharging the shotgun to cause attention and to express how she was beginning to feel at the time. The shotgun noise would obviously have been heard " shortly before midnight " in nearby fields at dead of night but Smith couldn't say how many shots were fired. It could even have been outside somewhere for all we know with Nevill bundling her back indoors and locking everywhere while he was at it.
I wonder if there'd been any shot lying around at the back of the farmhouse ?
I might have been more predisposed to believe something was amiss at that comparatively early stage had it not been for Pam's telephone call, which confirms in my mind that Sheila was tired out from all the social activity those past few days and was just heading off to bed.
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I might have been more predisposed to believe something was amiss at that comparatively early stage had it not been for Pam's telephone call, which confirms in my mind that Sheila was tired out from all the social activity those past few days and was just heading off to bed.
What do you make of Barbra Wilsons call?
(https://i.ibb.co/9mxk4sc/33333.png)
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A Steven Brian Smith had heard gunshots around midnight as he'd walked his dog in fields, coming from the direction of WHF. He did report the incident but his report is probably under the PII rules.
This could well have been used by the prosecution in saying that JB had killed his family between midnight and 3am ! Even though Sheila's prints were found on the shotgun and not Jeremy's.
Odd, considering Jeremy had used it to go bunny bashing, don't you think?
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Odd, considering Jeremy had used it to go bunny bashing, don't you think?
What, with a shotgun ?
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What do you make of Barbra Wilsons call?
(https://i.ibb.co/9mxk4sc/33333.png)
Well I think Nevill could have been annoyed for several reasons. Jeremy had previously tipped potatoes into a ditch and would rarely do overtime, so he might have refused his father's request to bring in the last load of rape seed. He might have thought Sheila was not doing enough round the house or that the caring for the twins was falling on his wife. I don't think he broached the subject with his daughter though because Sheila was meek on the telephone a short time later with Auntie Pam.
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Well I think Nevill could have been annoyed for several reasons. Jeremy had previously tipped potatoes into a ditch and would rarely do overtime, so he might have refused his father's request to bring in the last load of rape seed. He might have thought Sheila was not doing enough round the house or that the caring for the twins was falling on his wife. I don't think he broached the subject with his daughter though because Sheila was meek on the telephone a short time later with Auntie Pam.
I agree Steve, but think the argument was more likely to be with Jeremy as there was no mention of any hostility when June spoke to Pam.
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Jeremy did work overtime that day putting in 17 hours gathering the rape.
Nevill would have obviously been worried about June who'd been visiting her GP over a few weeks ( we don't now why ) and Sheila also was a great worry to the two of them. Nevill was in the middle of two sick women who weren't particularly close and the mention of foster caring showed that nobody was up to looking after the twins, even though June was only 60/61 at the time which was no age.
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Jeremy did work overtime that day putting in 17 hours gathering the rape.
Nevill would have obviously been worried about June who'd been visiting her GP over a few weeks ( we don't now why ) and Sheila also was a great worry to the two of them. Nevill was in the middle of two sick women who weren't particularly close and the mention of foster caring showed that nobody was up to looking after the twins, even though June was only 60/61 at the time which was no age.
That's true, but he was only putting in appearances since his return from the Antipodes to accord with the stipulation of Nevill's will. I don't think the tragedy was set in stone as he was still deliberating on the telephone with Julie a short time after he left, but armed with his central nervous system stimulants and a passive girlfriend he dared himself on to this heinous diablerie.
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Jeremy did work overtime that day putting in 17 hours gathering the rape.
Nevill would have obviously been worried about June who'd been visiting her GP over a few weeks ( we don't now why ) and Sheila also was a great worry to the two of them. Nevill was in the middle of two sick women who weren't particularly close and the mention of foster caring showed that nobody was up to looking after the twins, even though June was only 60/61 at the time which was no age.
17 hours. Did he get a coffee break?
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That's true, but he was only putting in appearances since his return from the Antipodes to accord with the stipulation of Nevill's will. I don't think the tragedy was set in stone as he was still deliberating on the telephone with Julie a short time after he left, but armed with his central nervous system stimulants and a passive girlfriend he dared himself on to this heinous diablerie.
Julie too was spaced-out that night if I remember rightly as Jeremy must have struggled to make her see sense when he rang her in the early hours. She'd obviously not had any idea of his " much talked about plan " by telling him to go back to bed after saying his father had rang. If she'd have had the decency to have got a taxi there and then she could have saved him from this fate worse than death if she'd have thought that much of him.
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17 hours. Did he get a coffee break?
It was 8:00-21:30, so 13 and a half hours. At 16:00 Jeremy talked to Sheila and the twins in the rape field for ten minutes. It was following this conversation, of which Jeremy has no recollection, that his sister wrote in her diary: "I didn't mean to be horrible to Jeremy.."
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Julie too was spaced-out that night if I remember rightly as Jeremy must have struggled to make her see sense when he rang her in the early hours. She'd obviously not had any idea of his " much talked about plan " by telling him to go back to bed after saying his father had rang. If she'd have had the decency to have got a taxi there and then she could have saved him from this fate worse than death if she'd have thought that much of him.
I don't know her mental state during the first of the three telephone calls. She may have felt she needed to provide a friendly ear, not envisaging in her worst nightmare of the malice aforethought running through his brain.
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I don't know her mental state during the first of the three telephone calls. She may have felt she needed to provide a friendly ear, not envisaging in her worst nightmare of the malice aforethought running through his brain.
Surely if she'd been told often enough about his " plans " then she'd smell a rat wouldn't she ? If she was telling the truth to start with which was questionable seeing that it was the silencer debacle which nailed his fate and not Julie's musings.
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Julie too was spaced-out that night if I remember rightly as Jeremy must have struggled to make her see sense when he rang her in the early hours. She'd obviously not had any idea of his " much talked about plan " by telling him to go back to bed after saying his father had rang. If she'd have had the decency to have got a taxi there and then she could have saved him from this fate worse than death if she'd have thought that much of him.
Well, one shared reefer doth not a "spaced-out" zombie make and the chances are a house full of students couldn't raise a bus fare across town between them, let alone a taxi to darkest Essex in the middle of the night!!!
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Surely if she'd been told often enough about his " plans " then she'd smell a rat wouldn't she ? If she was telling the truth to start with which was questionable seeing that it was the silencer debacle which nailed his fate and not Julie's musings.
This is partly true but Julie's evidence provided the human face of what in substance was a technical trial and in this way complemented it.
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Well, one shared reefer doth not a "spaced-out" zombie make and the chances are a house full of students couldn't raise a bus fare across town between them, let alone a taxi to darkest Essex in the middle of the night!!!
Taxi would have been paid on arrival. Shared reefer ? She used to flog the stuff didn't she ?
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Taxi would have been paid on arrival. Shared reefer ? She used to flog the stuff didn't she ?
Yes but only at Jeremy's instigation.
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Taxi would have been paid on arrival. Shared reefer ? She used to flog the stuff didn't she ?
Taxi paid by whom? I bet her presence at the farm would have gone down like a led balloon. She wouldn't have scuppered Jeremy's plan and she'd most certainly have been in the thick of it as an accomplice, which MAY be a reason why she told him to go to bed? It may have been that she was afraid she'd be dragged into something she couldn't get out of. As for "flogging the stuff", I guess it would depend on how much he'd given her to sell the previous weekend.None of this is black or white. I'd guarantee she went through myriad emotions which probably all changed hour to hour.
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Yes but only at Jeremy's instigation.
She was smuggling and selling it before she met Jeremy so wasn't new to the game.
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She was smuggling and selling it before she met Jeremy so wasn't new to the game.
Where is your evidence for this claim?
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Taxi paid by whom? I bet her presence at the farm would have gone down like a led balloon. She wouldn't have scuppered Jeremy's plan and she'd most certainly have been in the thick of it as an accomplice, which MAY be a reason why she told him to go to bed? It may have been that she was afraid she'd be dragged into something she couldn't get out of. As for "flogging the stuff", I guess it would depend on how much he'd given her to sell the previous weekend.None of this is black or white. I'd guarantee she went through myriad emotions which probably all changed hour to hour.
Jeremy would have paid for the taxi or else handed in an IOU on the strength of his 2 grand in the bank.
There'd have been no murder charge for Jeremy if she'd gone along that night and he wouldn't have minded at all. His conscience was clear------more's the pity he hadn't bedded some woman that night !
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Jeremy would have paid for the taxi or else handed in an IOU on the strength of his 2 grand in the bank.
There'd have been no murder charge for Jeremy if she'd gone along that night and he wouldn't have minded at all. His conscience was clear------more's the pity he hadn't bedded some woman that night !
Lookout, Please!!! Are you trying to tell me that a London cabby will drive some 100 miles in the middle of the night for nothing. I think there's every chance he'd have wanted money up front. How could he know he'd get paid? IF, as you'd have us believe, there was no murders, what would have been the point of Julie making such a journey? As for him not minding, it was only a few weeks after that, he dumped her for another girl. He actually said the relationship with Julie was in decline.
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Julie too was spaced-out that night if I remember rightly as Jeremy must have struggled to make her see sense when he rang her in the early hours. She'd obviously not had any idea of his " much talked about plan " by telling him to go back to bed after saying his father had rang. If she'd have had the decency to have got a taxi there and then she could have saved him from this fate worse than death if she'd have thought that much of him.
Saved him from himself you mean!