Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on December 04, 2018, 12:00:PM
-
Was he the scruffy looking hunched man seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after the police first arrived at the scene?
-
Neville Bamber and James Bell were no strangers to eachother...
-
Rumour has it that on one occasion when both clashed in public, that James Bell supposedly threatened Neville Bamber and his family by blurting out 'the next time we meet, or talk, it will be with you at the end of a guns barrel'...
-
Rumour has it that on one occasion when both clashed in public, that James Bell supposedly threatened Neville Bamber and his family by blurting out 'the next time we meet, or talk, it will be with you at the end of a guns barrel'...
Neville Bamber was an airman during the 2nd World War, and Bell was jailed for 6 months, as a result of 4 airmen drawing lots to see who would have sex with his young wife, whilst she waited expectantly in a toilet!
-
James Bell committing the massacre would explain why Nevill got so badly beaten. Sheila's biological mother could not have inflicted those injuries.
-
https://www.news.com.au/news/village-trials/news-story/294dc3786c4da3a5707244333cc807d6
Village trials
IF someone were to describe Finchingfield in north Essex, there would be mention of its Norman church, windmill, cosy pubs and neat rows of terraced houses. More? There's the duck pond on the village green and tearooms selling sticky buns. One of Britain's most photographed villages, its image has ended up on tea towels, calendars, postcards, even chocolate boxes.
Go to its north to discover the real beauty of the county of Essex, advises Stephanie Clifford-Smith
September 28, 20099:14pm
IF someone were to describe Finchingfield in north Essex, there would be mention of its Norman church, windmill, cosy pubs and neat rows of terraced houses. More? There's the duck pond on the village green and tearooms selling sticky buns. One of Britain's most photographed villages, its image has ended up on tea towels, calendars, postcards, even chocolate boxes.
When Bill Bryson came over all misty at the thought of leaving Britain in Notes from a Small Island, he wrote about the extraordinarily rich architectural heritage of the country with 445,000 listed buildings and 12,000 medieval churches. Places such as Finchingfield and the surrounding villages contribute in no small way to the tally because this pocket of north Essex was one of the wealthiest parts of Britain until the 18th century. Weaving and cloth production during the Middle Ages flooded the area with money, much of which was spent on stately homes and churches.
But it's not the glorious architecture that springs to many minds at the mention of Essex. Some Britons will snigger and follow up with a crude joke about the locals, including their estuarine accent, a form of cockney from counties near the Thames Estuary. Essex's poor reputation comes from its south, where the arcades in tacky seaside towns such as Southend host local hoods and clones of Vicky Pollard, the bolshie blonde teenager of Little Britain fame. The concrete multistorey car parks and the so-called new towns of Basildon and South Woodham Ferrers, built after World War II to house London workers, haven't done the county any favours either.
A GRUESOME HISTORY THAT'S WORTHY OF A TELEVISION WHODUNIT COGGESHALL has all the makings of a cracking episode of the popular television show Midsomer Murders. The town has a bustling market square, gift and antique shops heady with potpourri, rows of pretty gelato-toned houses and a gruesome history of sinister and violent deaths.
A woman was hanged here in 1699, in one of England's last recorded witch trials. The deaths of hundreds of men, women and children following trials on Market Hill are what many say caused "the curse of Coggeshall", while others put it down to the town's position on the intersection of two ley lines. These lines have no scientific foundation but are believed by the paranormally inclined to be threads of energy that join ancient monuments and the sites of pagan rituals, causing disruptive influences wherever they cross.
Whatever you believe, things turned very nasty here and there was a time in the 1980s when cabbies took fares to the town only reluctantly. The disappearance of 35-year-old Diane Jones in 1983 was the beginning of a wave of incidents that spooked the nation and had the tabloids in a lather. She'd been seen arguing with her husband, Robert, the town doctor, in the pub the night she disappeared. Police questioned him for 55 hours and dug up his garden but finding nothing let him go. Her battered body was found three months later in a forest in Suffolk. No one was charged with the murder.
In 1985, millionaire antique dealer Wilfred Bull shot his wife, Patsy, with an antique musket when she challenged him about his infidelity and demanded a divorce. That same year, at nearby Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Jeremy Bamber killed his adoptive parents, sister and her children to avoid sharing a pound stg. 500,000 inheritance. The following year, when the wife of local farmer and champion clay pigeon shooter Jimmy Bell left him, he shot her, then turned the gun on himself. Then, in 1988, restaurateur Peter Langan doused himself in petrol and set himself alight in the marital bedroom when his wife asked for a divorce.
He died seven weeks later.
You won't find any of that in the travel brochures. What you will find are less ghoulish reasons to visit, such as the 16th-century timber-framed house Paycockes, the 15th-century parish church of St Peter ad Vincula and Grange Barn, the oldest surviving timber-framed barn in Europe.
If you want to include Coggeshall on the trip suggested in the main feature, start there before heading east to Finchingfield.
Stephanie Clifford-Smith
Up in its rural north, however, near Cambridgeshire and Suffolk, things are different. Try this road trip, easily achievable in a day. All these places offer accommodation if you want to stretch it out; Essex is a little more than an hour northeast of London and Cambridge is nearby.
Finchingfield: Part of this little town's charm is its topography. The Norman church of St John the Baptist sits at the top of the village surrounded by a graveyard with ancient worn stones and the church tower, with its eight bells, marks the village's high point. A footpath winds up to and around the church from the road, so the building seems to unfold as you approach it obliquely. In the same way, Church Hill, the road in from the east, winds down to the green, past 15th- century houses and the Red Lion pub, one of those low-ceilinged places with a roaring fire.
Most of the plastered buildings are white (it goes so well with the ducks) but the occasional splash of pale blue, baby pink or, on the tearoom doors, an almost fluoro yellow breaks up the palette. Walk up the Causeway heading north and check out the 18th-century timber windmill.
Thaxted: If you've hankered to watch morris men, those wacky dancers in white, strewn with bells, ribbons and flowers, Thaxted could be the place to do it. The Thaxted morris men perform here on weekends throughout the summer, jigging, waving white hankies and rattling their knee bells, generally after a good spell at the local pub. If you miss the dancers you can always wander around the town, which has more big architectural tickets than most places this size. Start in the town centre and amid the rows of well-preserved Georgian shopfronts you'll find a house once occupied by British composer Gustav Holst. This is where he began writing The Planets orchestral suite, much of which has been used in films including Star Wars.
A bit farther along there's the medieval half-timbered Guildhall leaning out into the street from an open courtyard. Begun in 1390, it's still used for meetings and exhibitions. Walk up the hill to the 14th-century church, also called St John the Baptist, which, thanks to its spire, you can see from everywhere. There's a grassy path that takes you past the old almshouses, which look like gingerbread cottages, to John Webb's Windmill (1804). Picnic on the lawn beneath it or visit the museum inside.
Saffron Walden: There are a couple of distinctive characteristics of this small market town: it has never been sacked or burned so there are many well-preserved layers of history on show, especially in its centre. The other feature is that, although, like other towns in the area where wool production brought riches in medieval times, Saffron Walden got another cash injection in the 16th and 17th centuries from a healthy saffron industry. Until that time the place was known as Chipping Walden.
The town centre is predominantly medieval, which means there's a market square, with cheap fruit and vegetables, narrow cobbled streets and half-timbered buildings. If you're wondering why the town hall seems to be in such good condition for a medieval building, it's because it's not one. It was built in that style, presumably to fit in with surrounding structures, but not until 1769 and, being the civic centre, has had money thrown at it since to keep it looking good.
Walk up the hill from the square to visit the 15th-century St Mary the Virgin, the largest parish church in Essex. The lack of good local stone has meant many such buildings were clad in flint and, more commonly in domestic buildings, decorative plaster known as pargetting. North Essex is famous for it. Just across from the church is the Fry Gallery, which represents the Great Bardfield group of artists, Edward Bawden and Eric Ravilious among the most prominent. And if you like a maze that's interesting as well as easy to cheat try the turf maze on the common.
Clavering: Pronounced Clay-vering, this little village has become most famous as the place where Jamie Oliver grew up and, while his parents still run the local pub, The Cricketers (which does excellent food), there are other reasons to visit. It's very pretty, very rural and if you love walking it's ideal. The village green, where cricket matches are held throughout summer, looks like a fuzzy felt picture with bright little buildings dotted around its edges. From this open space lead public footpaths that run through Clavering and beyond, tracing timbered forests and open fields.
Continue past the green heading west to find the Norman church of StMary and St Clement. On the way you'll see houses with mossy, steeply pitched roofs and you'll pass through a kissing gate (to keep out livestock). The green blanket of the churchyard with its gravestones and yew trees creates a quiet breathing space as you approach the grey flint-clad building. The nave is spacious, punctuated by columns and monuments. Stand at the front and it's all cool, stone tones but from behind, hand-worked tapestry kneelers lined up along the pew backs introduce splashes of colour...
-
I believe there could well be a tenuous link between the murders in the Diane Jones (July 1983), whf (August 1985) and the murder of Augusta Bell (September 1986) - at the heart of this presentation is the madman millionaire James Bell who committed suicide after shooting his young 22 year old wife dead...
-
I believe there could well be a tenuous link between the murders in the Diane Jones (July 1983), whf (August 1985) and the murder of Augusta Bell (September 1986) - at the heart of this presentation is the madman millionaire James Bell who committed suicide after shooting his young 22 year old wife dead...
I am now having repeated nightmares concerning this case, being linked with the other two - so much so, that I have felt compelled to look into the circumstances of all three investigations. So far, I have made a number of alarming discoveries, which instinctively lead me to believe that James Bell, was responsible for the Diane Jones murder, and the murders of Neville Bamber, June Bamber, Daniel Caffell, Nicholas Caffell, and the murder of his young wife, Auguste Bell - he did not kill Sheila because the police were responsible for doing that / this, when a training exercise went wrong, which was being carried out with the body of Sheila (unconscious) insitu on the bedroom floor!
I have realised a series of common threads which I believe link all three murders together, which points the finger of suspicion at James Bell being the murderer of Diane Jones, and the Bamber family (excluding Sheila), and his own wife...
-
The nightmares I am having come at an alarming rate and frequency, I keep seeing the images of Diane Jones, June Bamber, and Auguste Bell, I am being told 'all these people, it's the same person', at first I couldn't understand how these three individuals could be the same person because their lives crossed over, and into, and beyond one or other of them. The first to die, had been Diane Jones (July 1983), the second to die, June Bamber (August 1985), the third to die, Auguste Bell (September 1986), but at one time or another, all three of these victims had lived at the same time as the other two, and vice versa. They all had lived at one time or another close to eachother, in Essex..
-
The nightmares I am having come at an alarming rate and frequency, I keep seeing the images of Diane Jones, June Bamber, and Auguste Bell, I am being told 'all these people, it's the same person', at first I couldn't understand how these three individuals could be the same person because their lives crossed over, and into, and beyond one or other of them. The first to die, had been Diane Jones (July 1983), the second to die, June Bamber (August 1985), the third to die, Auguste Bell (September 1986), but at one time or another, all three of these victims had lived at the same time as the other two, and vice versa. They all had lived at one time or another close to eachother, in Essex..
Here look at these (images) it's been images like these that I keep seeing in my nightmares, accompanied by a eerie male voice which keeps telling me, 'all these people, it's the same person', the frequency with which I am having these reoccurring nightmares is leaving me totally warn out and tired. How can all these three people, be the same person? It was bugging me, until it suddenly dawned on me the other night, it was in the middle of the night when I awoken at a reoccurrence of the same nightmare, James Bell, James Bell, James Bell...
Diane Jones murdered July 1983
June Bamber murdered August 1985
Auguste Bell murdered September 1986
James Bells former wife Janet, who he assaulted and was imprisoned for?
-
Detective Chief Supt' Ainsley was personally involved in all three investigations!
-
Diane Jones was understood to have been two months pregnant at the time she was murdered...
Sheila Caffell was spared her life in the Bamber family shootings, only to be killed in a training exercise which went dramatically wrong!
Auguste Bell fled James farmhouse after her mother had taken their child away back to Norfolk, followed by Auguste, herself - James Bell filled her toNirfolj shot her dead then killed himself...
-
i dont see how he could of been how culd he of got ut with the police how could he have phoned and pretend tobe nevile and why would he want to.
he know he may of had a grudge agianst but it would be a bit drastic to kill his entire family over it.
-
i dont see how he could of been how culd he of got ut with the police how could he have phoned and pretend tobe nevile and why would he want to. he could have pretended to be Neville, in order to lure him to the farm so that Bell could also kill Jeremy...
he know he may of had a grudge agianst Whoever bludgeoned Diane Jones to death would also have been considered to be somewhat drastic action too, and of course when Bell followed his wife to Norfolk, he shot her to death, and followed this by shooting himself dead, which can also be looked upon as being somewhat drastic action! but it would be a bit drastic to kill his entire family over it ok thanks for your opinion, but seems to me that whoever murdered Diane Jones, also knew that she was pregnant, either with the child of a liver, or their own child - at least that would be the approach I would have taken had I been investigating that / this murder! Surely, they could have got the unborn Childs DNA to see whether or not, Dr Jones (the husband) was it could have been the father! Seems to me that all of the three different murder investigations which I have drawn together in this thread, all have something in common, and that is it was that Diane JONES and My e Bamber and Auguste Bell all looked similar in appearance to one another, and all were having problems with either being or becoming unexpectedly pregnant as in Diane Jones case, to being concerned about the well being of Sheila and the care of her grandchildren in the case of June Bamber, to the snatching away of Auguste Bells child by her mother who took the child away to Norfolk, which in turn sparked off the leaving of James Bell by his wife, who fled to her mother's home in Norfolk to be with her child, only to be pursued all the way there by James Bell and shot to death, followed by James Bell turning the gun upon himself! Seems to me to have been a common thread linking all these three murder investigations together with James Bell at the hub of all three murders! Note, how there was a child, or children mixed up or embroiled in the build up to all these murders!
Essex police looked at the possible involvement of James Bell in the whf murders, and it may be more than just a coincidence that James Bells initials are 'JB', considering the contents of the suicide note, which has the alphabetic letters 'G'(give), 'J'(James), 'C'(call), ' F'(first), rather than what was previously thought to be a reference to 'G'(get), 'J'(Jeremy), [to] 'C'(come ), [to]' F'(farm)..
-
We also know that in 1982, or there about a that there as some sort of a confrontation inside the magistrates court when Neville Bamber sent somebody to prison, and this incident, whichever it was or how it had happenned led into a confrontation in public where James Bell threw a handful of bullets at Neville Bamber and threatened him by supposedly or allegedly shouting something along the lines of, ' the next time we meet, it will be with you at the end of the barrel of my gun'! Now, I can't for sure say that these things did happen, but it's what I've been told, and of course there is also the teneous link with the incident when James Bells wife is supposed to have locked herself away in a toilet at a nearby airbase whilst four airmen drew lots to see who would have sex with her first! According to evidence given at the court hearing which resulted in Bell being convicted and sent to prison, he made his wife walk around with four toilet seats around her neck in public - so their is also the RAF link, and who knows whether or not James Bell thought that Neville Bamber was either involved in someway, of that he had put the four airmen up to it? Basically put in any event this chap James Bell was a loose cannon, waiting to go off!
I can't help wondering if the time of year when all these murders took place, had also got something to do with it - July, August, and September (Summer season), time of harvesting of crops? James Bell and Neville Bamber, both farmers, both members of the local organisation known as 'Maldon farm fruit growers' I think 'Ltd' but I could be wrong at this stage!
-
nevile sent him down for 6 months for a crime he was guilty of its hardly a reason to hold that much of a grudge any other magestrate wuld of donee the same thing.
-
led into a confrontation in public where James Bell threw a handful of bullets at Neville Bamber and threatened him by supposedly or allegedly shouting something along the lines of, ' the next time we meet, it will be with you at the end of the barrel of my gun'! Now, I can't for sure say that these things did happen, but it's what I've been told..
From my experience of being incarcerated amongst some of the most notorious criminals in the country in the late 1980's, early 1990's, you don't go throwing a handful of bullets at someone in public and make threats that the next time you meet it will be with them, if you, at the end of a guns barrel, if you didn't mean what you were saying!
James Bell was therefore, a very dangerous individual, as it turned out to be the case in any event!
He was going to be shooting Neville Bamber and his family at a moment's notice, uninvited, or otherwise!
I wonder if James Bells, or his wife's (Janet), Auguste 'GP', was Dr Jones?
-
nevile sent him down for 6 months for a crime he was guilty of its hardly a reason to hold that much of a grudge any other magestrate wuld of donee the same thing.
Yes, thanks for reminding me, but nevertheless, there was some sort of an outburst in court when this happened, which later on escallated onto it into a street confrontation, and the throwing of a handful of bullets at Neville Bamber, it makes you think that James Bell held some sort of a grudge against Neville Bamber because he was ex RAF, a hatred of airmen because of what had happened to with his wife (Janet) at the airbase, which escalated into him making his wife change your toilet seats around her neck in public - maybe it was Neville Bamber who had dealt with the proceedings for which he got convicted and served six months in Pentonvilke prison before the court of appeal set him free?
The more I think about it, the more inclined I am now to think that James Bell could have been the whf murderer!
-
The was James and Auguste Bells farmhouse :-
-
The more I think about it, the more inclined I am now to think that James Bell could have been the whf murderer!
Was James Bell the scruffy looking hunched man seen walking away from Whitehouse farm about an hour after the police first arrived there?
Well, one things for certain, that scruffy looking hunched man could not have been Jeremy Bamber!, Because you could hardly have described him as being scruffy looking and hunched up, and the only time that Jeremy had approached the farmhouse after his arrival there at 3.52am, was when he went in a reduced if the farmhouse with Bews and Myall, and he came back to the patrol car with them both, so nobody could argue that the reference to this scruffy looking hunched up character could have been a reference to Jeremy!
The very first entry in a police document called 'THE MAJOR INCIDENT PROJECT REGISTER', states tge following:-
Entry 001 03.45hrs - Unidentified male (UM/001), seen at whf by PC Myall...
This project register was created after the change in direction of the police investigation, by which time PC Myall knew Jeremy Bamber personally! Therefore, any suggestion that this was a reference to Jeremy Bamber must be ruled out altogether! This leaves us, with trying to identify who this unidentified male was, or is!
We can start by looking for any information contained in police action reports, or in an officers report created for the attention of the senior officer in the case, which at the time this register came into play, was DCS Ainsley - there must exist such an action report of an officers report addressing this particular sighting of this unidentified male, and any conclusions drawn!
-
At this moment in time, I am 50/50 in my belief that this scruffy looking hunched up man who was seen walking away from the scene was either Freddie Emani, or James Bell..
-
At this moment in time, I am 50/50 in my belief that this scruffy looking hunched up man who was seen walking away from the scene was either Freddie Emani, or James Bell..
Because James Bell lived locally, I am more inclined to strongly suspect Bell of being this person!
-
But first, something else which requires clarification - was the scruffy looking hunched up man who was seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after the police first arrived there, the same unidentified male who PC Myall saw at the farmhouse at 03.45hrs?
-
But first, something else which requires clarification - was the scruffy looking hunched up man who was seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after the police first arrived there, the same unidentified male who PC Myall saw at the farmhouse at 03.45hrs?
This in turn throws up another avenue of enquiry, relating to the time police first arrived at the scene, since according to the disclosed information the occupants of CA07 did not arrive at whf until 3.48am, which would put the sighting of the scruffy looking hunched man who was seen walking away from the scene an hour or so later than that at about 4.48am?
Or, does the reference to the arrival of police at the scene, in the Daily Express article which makes mention of this sighting of the scruffy looking hunched up man have something to do with light aircraft that was photographing the vicinity of whf as part of some sort of ongoing surveillance operation during the early hours of the morning?
-
Are we trying to identify one unidentified person, or two unidentified people?
-
Are we trying to identify one unidentified person, or two unidentified people?
To be specific, (a) the unidentified male seen at whf at 03.45am by PC Myall, as listed in THE MAJOR PROJECT REGISTER, and or (b) the scruffy looking hunched man seen walking away from the scene about an hour after police first arrived at the farmhouse?
-
To be specific, (a) the unidentified male seen at whf at 03.45am by PC Myall, as listed in THE MAJOR PROJECT REGISTER, and or (b) the scruffy looking hunched man seen walking away from the scene about an hour after police first arrived at the farmhouse?
Seems to me, that we are dealing with two unidentified males here, not just the one!
-
I have either (50/50) Freddie Emani or James Bell, as the scruffy looking hunched up man that was seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after police arrived at the scene (if we treat 3.48am as the first time police arrived at the scene in order to determine the possible identity of this person), by this stage Jeremy Bamber had already been with the occupants of CA07 for an hour or so, and so by that stage they would have known who Jeremy Bamber was, and besides you could hardly describe Jeremy as being hunched up and scruffy looking, so this had to be somebody else...
-
I have either (50/50) Freddie Emani or James Bell, as the scruffy looking hunched up man that was seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after police arrived at the scene (if we treat 3.48am as the first time police arrived at the scene in order to determine the possible identity of this person), by this stage Jeremy Bamber had already been with the occupants of CA07 for an hour or so, and so by that stage they would have known who Jeremy Bamber was, and besides you could hardly describe Jeremy as being hunched up and scruffy looking, so this had to be somebody else...
Furthermore, by the time the nature of the investigation had changed, and 'THE MAJOR PROJECT REGISTER' came into being, PC Myall already knew who Jeremy Bamber was, and so one would think that there would be no need to try and identify who the unidentified male was who had been seen at 03.45am, if for example, that person had been Jeremy Bamber, all along?
-
So either the two sighting which we are dealing with at the moment, were (a) of the same person at different stages of the proceedings, or (b) it was two different persons!
-
So either the two sighting which we are dealing with at the moment, were (a) of the same person at different stages of the proceedings, or (b) it was two different persons!
Were these two people, the two people of interest whom Neville Bamber had spoken to his farm secretary about, when he told her words to the effect, 'its the shooting season soon, we had better keep our eyes open for those two'?
-
I can think of no such accomplice had Freddie Emani had been the scruffy looking hunched up man that had been seen walking away from the tragedy about an hour (04.48am) after the police first arrived at the scene (03.48am)?
-
I can think of no such accomplice had Freddie Emani had been the scruffy looking hunched up man that had been seen walking away from the tragedy about an hour (04.48am) after the police first arrived at the scene (03.48am)?
Not only this, but I don't think that Freddie Emani had anything to do with the Diane Jones murder, or that he had an accomplice to help him carry out that murder, whereas, I think there is a slight possibility, that James Bell could have had an accomplice in the Diane Jones Murder, I have a named person in mind but at the moment I know very little about this person, only that he lived in Church Street, Maldon, Essex...
-
Not only this, but I don't think that Freddie Emani had anything to do with the Diane Jones murder, or that he had an accomplice to help him carry out that murder, whereas, I think there is a slight possibility, that James Bell could have had an accomplice in the Diane Jones Murder, I have a named person in mind but at the moment I know very little about this person, only that he lived in Church Street, Maldon, Essex...
The fact that this person lived in the same village as Jeremy, infact he lived a mere stones throw away from Jeremy's cottage at 9 Head Street, Goldhanger, sounds the alarm bells, particularly since the named person that I have in mind was once arrested in connection with the Diane Jones Murder, but was released through a lack of evidence, or whatever...
-
The fact that this person lived in the same village as Jeremy, infact he lived a mere stones throw away from Jeremy's cottage at 9 Head Street, Goldhanger, sounds the alarm bells, particularly since the named person that I have in mind was once arrested in connection with the Diane Jones Murder, but was released through a lack of evidence, or whatever...
Paul Barnes, that's the name of the chap, I think he used to live with Diane Jones in Coggleshall, or at least within a stone throw of James Bell - I am sure that they knew eachother very well. I think that when Diane Jones left Paul Barnes to go and live with Dr Jones, that it left a bad taste in the mouth. I think that it's possible that James Bell murdered Diane Jones, either motivated by himself, or acting on behalf of Barnes...
-
it sort of falls down on the phonecall to jeremy how could jimmy bell have done that and why would he want to
-
it sort of falls down on the phonecall to jeremy how could jimmy bell have done that and why would he want to
Jeremy received the call, there is no doubt about that, nobody can be certain that the person who made that call, was in fact Neville Bamber at all. The person purporting to be Neville Bamber on that occasion, only spoke a few words, in a hurried tone, ' 'SHEILA HAS GOT THE GUN, SHE HAS GONE CRAZY, COME QUICKLY' (11 words), a call received in the middle of the night, being accepted whilst the recipient was half asleep..
Person making the call could easily have been James Bell, the scruffy looking hunched man seen walking away from the tragedy!
-
Obviously Nevill fought a man in the kitchen. It seems it may have been Jamie Bell.
Surprised Nevill rang Jeremy when realising there was a stranger inside WHF with his rifle.
-
Obviously Nevill fought a man in the kitchen. It seems it may have been Jamie Bell. the confrontation in the kitchen, between Neville Bamber and his killer, must have happenned, or occurred after the call which Jeremy did recieve, so had no bearing on the phone call from the scene to Jeremy!
Surprised Nevill rang Jeremy (we don't know it was actually Neville Bamber who made the call to Jeremy)...when realising there was a stranger inside WHF with his rifle. ( if the caller was someone else, other than Neville Bamber, let's say for arguments sake, the caller was in fact James Bell, then of course, Neville Bamber didn't, and hadn't telephoned Jeremy, 'James Bell had, and did'..
-
I never thought that Jamie Bell may have rang Jeremy. That would explain Jeremy being woken up by the phone ringing.
-
you'd recognise your own father's voice even if it was in the middle of the night being woken from sleep ,I do not buy this guy phoning Jeremy and how would he get his phone number?
-
Well Jeremy said himself he had been woken from sleeping 'like a log'. When told Sheila could not have shot herself a second time, he said Nevill may have said 'She', rather than 'Sheila'.
Mike has suggested 'she' could have been Sheila's biological mother. Sherlock has suggested it was AE.
If a half asleep Jeremy can get 'she' & 'Sheila' mixed up, he may have got Nevill & Jamie Bell mixed up. The call did only last around 3 seconds.
-
Jeremy received the call, there is no doubt about that, nobody can be certain that the person who made that call, was in fact Neville Bamber at all. The person purporting to be Neville Bamber on that occasion, only spoke a few words, in a hurried tone, ' 'SHEILA HAS GOT THE GUN, SHE HAS GONE CRAZY, COME QUICKLY' (11 words), a call received in the middle of the night, being accepted whilst the recipient was half asleep..
Person making the call could easily have been James Bell, the scruffy looking hunched man seen walking away from the tragedy!
yes i supose it could be done but how does jimy bell know jeremys number and what would be his motive for phoning him.
-
you'd recognise your own father's voice even if it was in the middle of the night being woken from sleep ,I do not buy this guy phoning Jeremy and how would he get his phone number?
Neville could have made the call himself, since there was undoubtedly such a call made to Jeremy from the scene to his cottage that morning at around 03.25am - 'HE HAS GOT THE GUN, HE GAS GONE CRAZY, COME QUICKLY' may have been the words spoken, which Jeremy mistook for his father having said, ' Sheila has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly'. I raised this possibility with Jeremy back in 1990 after reading his police interviews, in particular that part where Jeremy told the police that his father could have used the term 'She Has', rather than 'Sheila' - 'HE Has', SHEILA'S, and 'SHE HAS' are all terms which when spoken hurriedly sound phonetically the same. Having said all of this, it should be noted, that when Neville himself phoned the police at 3.26am, he told them 'Daughter gone Berserk' and that 'My daughter has got hold of one of my guns', etc, etc, etc..
With this in mind, one assumes that when Neville made the call to Jeremy, he named Sheila as the person who had got the gun, and who was going crazy! However, he does not say in which way she was going crazy, or against who, if anyone at all by that stage. For all anybody knows James Bell might have paid an early morning visit to white house farm to confront Neville Bamber and his family and at that time Sheila had taken possession of the gun and was threatening to use it, or had already discharged it - we don't even know which gun Neville was alleging that Sheila had got possession of by that stage? But, what we do know is that just as the occupants of CA07 arrived at the scene, that PC Myall saw an unidentified male at 03.45am at the farmhouse, an unidentified male who became the focus of an enquiry in September 1985. We also know that a scruffy looking hunched up man was seen walking away from the farmhouse about an hour after the police arrived there, a man who was never formerly identified - police brought Freddie Emani up to Essex to interview him under caution, and ending up with him making a witness statement! It would be very interesting to see a transcript of his police interview to see whether or not it was ever put to him that he could have been the man seen by PC Myall leaving the scene at 03.45am, or that he was the scruffy looking hunched up man who had been seen walking away from the scene about an hour after police had first arrived there at the farmhouse?
-
you'd recognise your own father's voice even if it was in the middle of the night being woken from sleep ,I do not buy this guy phoning Jeremy and how would he get his phone number?
It is a proven fact we often see what we expect to see and hear what we expect to hear. If someone identified himself as Nevill and sounded like Nevill calling from Nevill's phone in the middle of the night it is likely the only thought would be about the message and how to react to it. It would be unlikely that you'd be questioning if it was actually Nevill in those circumstances?
-
It is a proven fact we often see what we expect to see and hear what we expect to hear. If someone identified himself as Nevill and sounded like Nevill calling from Nevill's phone in the middle of the night it is likely the only thought would be about the message and how to react to it. It would be unlikely that you'd be questioning if it was actually Nevill in those circumstances?
Nevill did not identify himself in his call. He just said 11 words, put the phone down & took it off the hook so Jeremy could not ring back.
Jeremy would not know what phone had been used to phone him. He identified the voice as Nevill's and believed he had said 'Sheila', although later said Nevill may have said 'She'.
Mike has said a hit man team or Jamie Bell may have committed the massacre. So another man may have rang Jeremy.
Mike has also said Sheila's biological mother & Sherlock suggested AE may have committed the massacre. In this case Nevill somehow got to the phone & spent several minutes ringing Jeremy in the middle of the massacre, saying 'she'. Quite why Nevill would ring Jeremy in this situation is a mystery.
-
It is a proven fact we often see what we expect to see and hear what we expect to hear. If someone identified himself as Nevill and sounded like Nevill calling from Nevill's phone in the middle of the night it is likely the only thought would be about the message and how to react to it. It would be unlikely that you'd be questioning if it was actually Nevill in those circumstances?
People who come from the same area often have the same accent, and both Neville and James Bell were farmers, I just think in the circumstances Jeremy could have been mistaken in believing his father had called him and had spoken those 11 words in the middle of the night! Having said this, it probably was Neville who made that call, and he may have said that 'Sheila has got the gun', but there was no additional information provided by the caller at that time as to (a) which gun Sheila had got hold of, (b) why she had got hold of the gun, (c) what if anything Sheila had done by that stage, and (d) what if anything had provoked, or caused Sheila to get hold of the gun. Additionally, there was no information, or explanation, (e) what was meant by Neville saying that 'She has gone Crazy', (f) crazy in what way, (g) mentally, (h) violently and physically, (I) had she discharged the gun at all by that stage, (j) had anybody already been shot, (j) or shot at...
For all we know, not only could it have been James Bell who made that call to Jeremy disguised as Neville Bamber, but it could also have been James Bell who had made the 3.26am call to the police, at which time he deliberately put the blame for what may already have happenned. Or what was about to happen on Sheila, who he referred to as his daughter! This particular phone call falls into the same category as a phone call that was made in the Diane Jones investigation when an anonymous caller tipped off police that they had seen Diane Jones in the Bury St Edmunds area, after she had mysteriously disappeared from the doorstep of the home she shared
with Dr Jones, which was obviously a diversionary tactic, to take suspicion away from her killer!
The suggestion that Diane Jones simply walked off from the doorstep of the home she shared with Dr Jones simply does not stack up in view of what we now know happenned to her, and by that I mean what happened to her just before she disappeared, and what we now know became her fate afterwards!
-
but why does james bell want to frame sheila.
-
Nevill did not identify himself in his call. He just said 11 words, put the phone down & took it off the hook so Jeremy could not ring back. or, whoever made the call to Jeremy at that time, simply tapped the cradle to get a dialing tone, so that a call could be made to alert the police as to what was transpiring or to what was about to take place. Seems to me that whoever called the police at 3.26am, did not tell the police that they had already made a call to Jeremy, and this could have been a deliberately ploy, say if the caller had been James Bell - because the 3.26am call was made to Chelmsford police station, which was a considerable distance from the scene as compared to the distance of Jeremy's cottage to the farmhouse. Did James Bell intend to shoot dead Jeremy at the scene before the police could get there?
Not only that / this, but whoever made that 3.26am call to Chelmsford police station, did so before Jeremy himself had tried to contact the police at Witham police station at about 3.29am, a call which was not answered, and which caused Jeremy to make a 03.30am call to Julie Mugford. If Jeremy had made the 3.26am call to Chelmsford police station and disguised himself as Neville Bamber, why would he then try to make a call to Witham police station minutes afterwards? We don't even know the duration of the 3.26am call that somebody made from the farmhouse purporting to be Neville Bamber, a fact supported by reference at that time, during that call to 'Daughter gone Berserk' and 'My daughter has got hold of one of my guns'. Whereas, Jeremy's call to police which started at 3.36am, lasted a specific duration of time terminating at around 3.45am...
The two phone logs produced by police (3.26am and 3.36am) have been claimed by some to be different interpretations of the same call that Jeremy had made, and that Jeremy had made that call at 3.26am, not at 3.36am - but if that be true, how could Jeremy have tried to make contact with Witham police station at 3.29am, followed by a 3.30am call to his girlfriend Julie Mugford'? Not only this, but if the 3.26am call was the correct time that Jeremy had spoken to PC West, a 9 minute call would have been terminated at the precise time that the occupants of CA97 had been deployed to the incident at whf, whereas PC West told Jeremy to make his way to the scene and that he would be met by officers who had already been deployed to the incident! The point being that prior to PC West telling Jeremy to make his way to the scene, PC West had contacted the operator and asked her to check the phone line at Whitehouse farm. This took place at 3.42am, and could not have been made while Jeremy was still being held on the line if he had called at 3.26am, and his call had lasted all of 9 minutes before Jeremy had been told to make his way to the scene. The timing of Jeremy's call therefore could not have occurred at 3.26am, by virtue of the fact that PC West did not speak to the lady operator until 3.42am ( 16 minutes after the 3.26am call that somebody from the farmhouse had made to the police). This has other far reaching implications on the testimony under oath given by PC West and the Civilian switchboard Operator, who dishonestly sought to decieve the court which was trying the case, into accepting and believing that there had been a mix up around the time of Jeremy's call to the police, they suggesting that his call had been made at 3.26am, without producing the phone log timed with that time for viewing and consideration!
Jeremy would not know what phone had been used to phone him. By the same token, neither would the police! Similarly, police would not know which phone inside whf had been used to made the 3.26am distress call to them - this is because between around 5.55am and 6.09am, the phone line at and from the farmhouse became mysteriously engaged! He identified the voice as Nevill's and believed he had said 'Sheila', although later said Nevill may have said 'She'. or 'HE'..
Mike has said a hit man team Er, I have suggested it, for the purpose of trying to stimulate debate.. or Jamie Bell may have committed the massacre. Well, if Sheila hadn't shot or attacked the other four, and certainly neither did Jeremy, who else had a motive for doing so, and suspicion fell under the police radar, leading to Mathew McDonald, Freddie Emani, and James Bell.. So another man may have rang Jeremy. Yes, the call to Jeremy could have been made by Neville Bamber, and James Bell could still have been the actual murderer, it's something which with the benefit of hindsight we all know that he (James Bell) was capable of doing!
Mike has also said Sheila's biological mother & Sherlock suggested AE may have committed the massacre. She has been mentioned, and her involvement is open to debate..In this case Nevill somehow got to the phone & spent several minutes ringing Jeremy in the middle of the massacre No, he didn't - it would have only taken a matter of seconds for the person who made that call to Jeremy to speak those 11 words, hurriedly.., saying 'she'. or, 'Sheila's, or 'HE HAS'..Quite why Nevill would ring Jeremy in this situation is a mystery. Why should it be a mystery? Jeremy's cottage at Head Street was closer to whf than the police station at Witham, or Chelmsford! At the trial, the dastardly prosecution claimed that Neville Bamber would have phoned the police, not Jeremy! As it turns out Neville Bamber did phone the police at 3.26am, and the cops and the CPS had the 3.26am phone log contents capable of proving this, but withheld it's contents choosing instead to make out a false case, that Jeremy's call to police had taken place at 3.26am, instead of 3.36am, without disclosing the contents of the recorded 3.26am log, only the 3.36am log contents! They relied on a timing mistake, not one of contents - had the contents of both messages (3.26am and 3.36am) been exhibited, the defence would have been able to contend that Neville Bamber had made the 3.26am call to the police by a reliance upon the recorded words contained therein, 'Daughter', etc, as opposed to 'Sheila' or 'Sister'..
-
yes i supose it could be done but how does jimy bell know jeremys number and what would be his motive for phoning him.
Well, first of all, we don't know that Jeremy and James Bell did not know one another through the farming community! Also, I believe that the Bambers and James Bell were part of 'Maldon fruit and crop growers, Ltd, or whatever - it would be common practice for neighbouring farmers to have eachothers telephone contact information, including secondary numbers where they might be reached in an emergency. I should think if James Bell be the person who phoned Jeremy, that he intended to try and lure him to the farm before the police arrived to shoot him as well..
-
The other thing worthy of mentioning, was that at the time of the call made to Jeremy, the caller did not identify himself as Neville Bamber, for all we know James Bell could have made that call intending for Jeremy to know that he (James Bell) was at the farm, and that he was simply telling Jeremy that 'Sheila has got the gun, and that she was going crazy'. Jeremy could have mistook James Bell for his dad, something which Jame's Bell had not intended to happen - this would them make some sort of sense around the sighting of the scruffy looking hunched man who was seen walking away from the farmhouse, or even the unidentified male who was seen by PC Myall at the scene at 03.45am (was either of these two unidentified males, none other than James Bell)?
-
The other thing worthy of mentioning, was that at the time of the call made to Jeremy, the caller did not identify himself as Neville Bamber, for all we know James Bell could have made that call intending for Jeremy to know that he (James Bell) was at the farm, and that he was simply telling Jeremy that 'Sheila has got the gun, and that she was going crazy'. Jeremy could have mistook James Bell for his dad, something which Jame's Bell had not intended to happen - this would them make some sort of sense around the sighting of the scruffy looking hunched man who was seen walking away from the farmhouse, or even the unidentified male who was seen by PC Myall at the scene at 03.45am (was either of these two unidentified males, none other than James Bell)?
And then of course, there was the white coloured marina estate vehicle with some ladders strapped onto its roof rack that was seen driving up along Pages Lane at about 9.30pm on the evening of 6th August 1985?
Did James Bell have access to such a vehicle?
-
Detective Chief Supt' Ainsley was personally involved in all three investigations!
I think that when the nature of the investigation changed after the 1st week in September 1985, and DCS Ainsley took over, that he looked at the possibility of James Bell being Jeremy Bambers accomplice!
-
Thanks Mike. If Sheila's biological mother or AE were attempting the massacre, wouldn't it take several minutes for Nevill to ring Jeremy ? are you asking me about the passage of time before Neville made his call to Jeremy? Or the duration of the call once he spoke those 11 words to him?
Jeremy did say he was upstairs sleeping 'like a log'. We only have Jeremy's word regarding that / this - but by the same token there is no reliable or meaningful evidence to contradict what he says, or said - if I am wrong no doubt someone will take the opportunity to point this / it out to me!
-
And then of course, there was the white coloured marina estate vehicle with some ladders strapped onto its roof rack that was seen driving up along Pages Lane at about 9.30pm on the evening of 6th August 1985?
Did James Bell have access to such a vehicle?
I am also mindful that an eye witness saw a man disposing of a rolled piece of carpet at the spot where Diane Jones remains were eventually found some two weeks or so after her disappearence! The eyewitness took the registration plate details of the vehicle in question but subsequently misplaced or lost it! Surely, the witness knew what make of car it was?
-
Seems to me Diane Jones demise came about through her becoming pregnant, her killer, had to either be (a) her husband, (b) Paul Barnes her ex lover, or (c) an accomplice of (a) or (b) hired to put her out of her misery (James Bell falls into this latter category) if Bell be Diane Jones murdered, he would not have done it as a hired assassin since he was in no need of money with him being a millionaire. If Bell was responsible, he did it out of loyalty to one or other of (a) or (b), or for that matter both...
-
There were obvious apparent tenuous links between the following persons, and the three murder, and murder / suicide investigations:-
THE HARVEST MURDERS
(1) - the Diane Jones murder (July 1983)
(2) - whf murder / suicide (August 1985)
(3) - Auguste Bell murder and suicide of James Bell (September 1985)
Dr Jones
Diane Jones
Paul Barnes
James Bell
Neville Bamber
June Bamber
Auguste Bell
-
If James Bell be at the heart of all three of these shooting tragedies, I ponder why he did not shoot dead Sheila Caffell, or the Auguste Bell child?
-
Thanks Mike. If Sheila's biological mother or AE were attempting the massacre, wouldn't it take several minutes for Nevill to ring Jeremy ? are you asking me about the passage of time before Neville made his call to Jeremy? Or the duration of the call once he spoke those 11 words to him?
Jeremy did say he was upstairs sleeping 'like a log'. We only have Jeremy's word regarding that / this - but by the same token there is no reliable or meaningful evidence to contradict what he says, or said - if I am wrong no doubt someone will take the opportunity to point this / it out to me!
I was ssking how long Nevill will have to wait before Jeremy answered the phone, after Nevill had dialled his number.
I agree Nevill only said 11 words to Jeremy before hanging up, after Jeremy answered
-
I was ssking how long Nevill will have to wait before Jeremy answered the phone, after Nevill had dialled his number.
I agree Nevill only said 11 words to Jeremy before hanging up, after Jeremy answered
Jeremy wouldn't know, despite him provisionally claiming that he might have answered it immediately - the alternative ( if we proceed in the basis that Jeremy did in fact answer Neville's call)? I don't see how someone can honestly say in those circumstances, that they 'answered the call immediately' - sorry, but from personal experience, I have had people trying to contact me in the middle of the night, for me to be informed, that when I did eventually answer such a call, only to be informed that the person has been trying to contact me for the last 15 minutes, before I actually answered the call..
Therefore, I can't put a period of time, on the delay between when Neville made that call (or anyone purporting to be the caller)...
-
Jeremy wouldn't know, despite him provisionally claiming that he might have answered it immediately - the alternative ( if we proceed in the basis that Jeremy did in fact answer Neville's call)? I don't see how someone can honestly say in those circumstances, that they 'answered the call immediately' - sorry, but from personal experience, I have had people trying to contact me in the middle of the night, for me to be informed, that when I did eventually answer such a call, only to be informed that the person has been trying to contact me for the last 15 minutes, before I actually answered the call..
Therefore, I can't put a period of time, on the delay between when Neville made that call (or anyone purporting to be the caller)...
however, from my personal experience of allegedly being an incorragable Criminal, (a fact I strenuously deny, in a y event) tells me that, as a highly intelligent, resourceful, and an illusive crook, that there could have been, or was a considerable delay, between the time the person making the call from Whf to Jeremy's cottages, could have been unsuccessful in making contact, and that there was a considerable delay, before Jeremy answered the call...
My overall impression, based historically on my own background, is that Jeremy might not necessarily have answered such a call immediately, there could have been such a delay...
-
I strongly deny being an incorragable Criminal, and the person which the corrupt criminal justice system in all its facets portrays me as being! The criminal justice system is a corrupt organisation, it makes stories up, which ordinarily cannot possibly be true - they, (all of them) are in the business of creating false positive scenarios...
It's the modern day version of the Witch trials, 'in days of older when knights were bold', and that sorry lot of public brainwashed conspirators...
-
Essex police shot and killed Sheila Caffell - by way of the second fatal shot (bullet PV/19), ignoring this truth, is the point at which ordinary members of the public have been conned (initially by Essex police) by the Crown's position - think back through history, and try to remember all the occasions the powers that be misled the public?
Nothing much has changed despite decades having passed...
-
Essex police shot and killed Sheila Caffell - by way of the second fatal shot (bullet PV/19), ignoring this truth, is the point at which ordinary members of the public have been conned (initially by Essex police) by the Crown's position - think back through history, and try to remember all the occasions the powers that be misled the public?
Nothing much has changed despite decades having passed...
Power corrupts, and those in Power, in whatever format, have the potential to be corrupt, or they are corrupt, and corrupted...
-
Former DCS Ainsley was a dishonest police officer, he should have his police pension stopped!
-
Former DCS Ainsley was a dishonest police officer, he should have his police pension stopped!
Surely, the relatives who have all benefitted (financially) from the conviction of Jeremy Bamber as the killer, could out their hand in their pockets to make sure that Ainsley and any dependants don't Starve to death, or become homeless!!!
-
I also believe, that the relatives knew James Bell, personally!
-
I also believe, that the relatives knew James Bell, personally!
Makes me wonder whether or not one or more of the relatives hired James Bell to take out three generations of the Bamber family, in order to ensure that the Bamber inheritance, and 'Mabel Speakmans inheritance' should conveniently fall into the relatives lap...
-
David Boutflours public comment, that ' Nobody wins' was / is nothing short of a joke, of course somebody won financially, ' it was you, and yours'...
-
Former DCS Ainsley, was a money grabbing, headline grabbing individual - he reminds me of the current Chief Constable of South Yorkshire police ( Stephen Watson), someone who was put in charge for the purpose of misleading the general public about the involvement of police, based upon trying to portray the police in that particular region as being honest, loyal servants of the public!
Oh, yeah, and then Ainsley and his duplicate imposter Watson woke up!
-
Jeremy wouldn't know, despite him provisionally claiming that he might have answered it immediately - the alternative ( if we proceed in the basis that Jeremy did in fact answer Neville's call)? I don't see how someone can honestly say in those circumstances, that they 'answered the call immediately' - sorry, but from personal experience, I have had people trying to contact me in the middle of the night, for me to be informed, that when I did eventually answer such a call, only to be informed that the person has been trying to contact me for the last 15 minutes, before I actually answered the call..
Therefore, I can't put a period of time, on the delay between when Neville made that call (or anyone purporting to be the caller)...
Thanks Mike.
I hope Nevill didn't have to wait 15 minutes for Jeremy to answer.
-
Thanks Mike.
I hope Nevill didn't have to wait 15 minutes for Jeremy to answer.
Adam, we shall simply never know - of course Jeremy will maintain that he answered the call immediately, but...
We will never know..
-
What I would like to find out, is which Magistrate sentenced James Bell to a term of imprisonment for violence or brutality against his first wife (Janet) - I prey to God, that the Magistrate was not Neville Bamber!
-
What I would like to find out, is which Magistrate sentenced James Bell to a term of imprisonment for violence or brutality against his first wife (Janet) - I prey to God, that the Magistrate was not Neville Bamber!
What I do know, is that a police action was raised about the possibility that James Bell had got something to do with the whf tragedy...
-
What I do know, is that a police action was raised about the possibility that James Bell had got something to do with the whf tragedy...
The back ground to this view, as far as I can see, and what I have seen thus far, Essex police is keeping its view close to its chest!
-
The back ground to this view, as far as I can see, and what I have seen thus far, Essex police is keeping its view close to its chest!
Essex police at one time or another, believed that James Bell did have something to do with the four murders in this shooting tragedy (at whf)..
-
I personally, think that Jeremy and James Bell, knew eachother...
-
I personally, think that Jeremy and James Bell, knew eachother...
If I am right, this opens up far reaching consequences...
-
If I am right, this opens up far reaching consequences...
Did Jeremy, rely upon James Bell to carry out the murders of four victims, at whf?
-
I have spent time incarcerated with Jeremy Bamber (1989 - 1990), and I have operated (if that be the term relevant), as his McKenzie man, visited him weekly until sometime in 2004, and campaigned on his behalf, but there remains unanswered questions...
JAMES Bell could have been at the heart of the whf tragedy...
I do not consider myself to be a mug - the trial judge who imposed the 52 Years imprisonment upon me in September 1988 described me as a highly intelligent, cunning, and an illusive crook - nobody asked me my opinion but if I had got the chance or the opportunity, I would have said the trial judge was a biased, corrupted member of the Criminal justice system!
-
I have spent time incarcerated with Jeremy Bamber (1989 - 1990), and I have operated (if that be the term relevant), as his McKenzie man, visited him weekly until sometime in 2004, and campaigned on his behalf, but there remains unanswered questions...
JAMES Bell could have been at the heart of the whf tragedy...
I do not consider myself to be a mug - the trial judge who imposed the 52 Years imprisonment upon me in September 1988 described me as a highly intelligent, cunning, and an illusive crook - nobody asked me my opinion but if I had got the chance or the opportunity, I would have said the trial judge was a biased, corrupted member of the Criminal justice system!
Jeremy Bamber could not handle my way of thinking about all the issues in his case!
-
Bamber was not whiter, than white - he didn't like the idea that I was prying into his true background...
-
Jeremy Bamber. And his supporters can think what they like about me - what they think or say about me will not effect my approach in trying to get to the bottom of what took place in his case, he did what, when and why!
-
Of course, Jeremy knew about the potential involvement of James Bell in the murder of his family - but his view was that Anthony Pargeter was potentially the shooter! However much later, necessary if the opinion that other relatives could have been behind the shootings!
I looked into his view, when I was his McKenzie man, and to be fair I was sympathetic to his view that Anthony Pargeter could have been the killer..
My ultimate response was that whoever had shot the other four victims, that Sheila Caffell was not one of the four victims..
-
Of course, Jeremy knew about the potential involvement of James Bell in the murder of his family - but his view was that Anthony Pargeter was potentially the shooter! However much later, necessary if the opinion that other relatives could have been behind the shootings!
I looked into his view, when I was his McKenzie man, and to be fair I was sympathetic to his view that Anthony Pargeter could have been the killer..
My ultimate response was that whoever had shot the other four victims, that Sheila Caffell was not one of the four victims..
AP. That is a new suggestion Mike.
Again that would explain the fight Nevill had with another male in the kitchen.
It would also explain Jeremy getting a call from a male at 3am. Jeremy not able to determine it was not Nevill's voice within the 3 second call.
-
The frame the relatives carried out after the massacre, was already the most complex, ambitious & dangerous ever.
They didn't commit the crime & then helped frame another person who didn't commit the crime either !
To suggest both the massacre and the frame was pre planned by the relatives with either AP or AE committing the massacre, is a new theory.
-
Mike, what have you been smoking?
-
so as i get mikes theory is nevile phoned jeremy and said hes gone mad with a gun but jeremy miss heard him and thought he said she asumed it was sheila well i suppose its possble but i dont think theres much chance of proving it.
-
so as i get mikes theory is nevile phoned jeremy and said hes gone mad with a gun but jeremy miss heard him and thought he said she asumed it was sheila well i suppose its possble but i dont think theres much chance of proving it.
I doubt Nevill would use those words to describe an intruder to Jeremy over the phone. It would be more like "Someone has broken in and has got a gun"
Most importantly I doubt Nevil would even bother calling Jeremy. One would have thought he would go straight for the shotgun in the office nearby then blast the guys face off.
-
I doubt Nevill would use those words to describe an intruder to Jeremy over the phone. It would be more like "Someone has broken in and has got a gun"
Most importantly I doubt Nevil would even bother calling Jeremy. One would have thought he would go straight for the shotgun in the office nearby then blast the guys face off.
theres also the slight matter of how he would get in to neviles gun cupboard seeeing as he wouldent know were it was.
and how he would know were everybody was sleeping.
-
If it was James Bell, Sheila's biological mother, or a hit man team, as Mike suggested, it will be a 'first ever' situation.
An innocent man (Jeremy) being framed. But not framed by the killer/s. Framed by people who didn't commit the crime (relatives, Julie). Assisted by the police/experts changing stance to create an industrial frame.
If AP or AE committed the massacre, as suggested by Mike/Sherlock, this is more straight forward. The murderers were trying to frame another person - Jeremy. Again assisted by the police/experts changing stance.
-
The above is also true if Sheila was the killer.
People who did not committ the massacre (relatives/Julie) successfully helped frame another person who also did not commit the massacre - Jeremy.
Has anyone got any other examples of this happening. Friends, relatives, lovers etc not committing a crime, but then successfully contributing to framing another person who also did not commit the crime ?
The Bamber case could be the only one.
-
The above is also true if Sheila was the killer.
People who did not committ the massacre (relatives/Julie) successfully helped frame another person who also did not commit the massacre - Jeremy.
Has anyone got any other examples of this happening. Friends, relatives, lovers etc not committing a crime, but then successfully contributing to framing another person who also did not commit the crime ?
The Bamber case could be the only one.
David Bain
"… at some point during the first few weeks, um, [the aunts and uncles] were convinced by the Police that I was the killer and they all turned against me and the – from then on I was interrogated not only by the, um, by my lawyer by the, um, ah, psychiatrists and experts that came to view me but also by my family who would come in and ask extremely leading and open and hurtful questions and then apparently go and relate it straight back, straight to Police officer after walking out of the prison and seeing me so totally, you know, misusing their relationship with me to the point where I actually – you know, it became so hurtful I stopped actually allowing them to see me."
-
David Bain
"… at some point during the first few weeks, um, [the aunts and uncles] were convinced by the Police that I was the killer and they all turned against me and the – from then on I was interrogated not only by the, um, by my lawyer by the, um, ah, psychiatrists and experts that came to view me but also by my family who would come in and ask extremely leading and open and hurtful questions and then apparently go and relate it straight back, straight to Police officer after walking out of the prison and seeing me so totally, you know, misusing their relationship with me to the point where I actually – you know, it became so hurtful I stopped actually allowing them to see me."
This seems different in that the police convinced the family, who then openly confronted Bain. The family also did not hand in evidence which showed Bain was the killer.
Bamber also had a person not involved in the massacre, fatally compile a long WS & testify against him - Julie.
-
David Bain
"… at some point during the first few weeks, um, [the aunts and uncles] were convinced by the Police that I was the killer and they all turned against me and the – from then on I was interrogated not only by the, um, by my lawyer by the, um, ah, psychiatrists and experts that came to view me but also by my family who would come in and ask extremely leading and open and hurtful questions and then apparently go and relate it straight back, straight to Police officer after walking out of the prison and seeing me so totally, you know, misusing their relationship with me to the point where I actually – you know, it became so hurtful I stopped actually allowing them to see me."
I do wonder how murderers can live with themselves: David Bain, Jeremy Bamber, David McGreavy. I makes me think that there must be some defect in the brain where they can switch off what they did, not feel remorse in the first place or otherwise detach, which also leads me to the conclusion that many of them have some form of insanity which has not been clinically diagnosed, which would be the only reason not to subject them to the death penalty if they did not know at the time what they were doing was wrong. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/93012800/David-Bains-new-life-under-new-name
-
I do wonder how murderers can live with themselves: David Bain, Jeremy Bamber, David McGreavy. I makes me think that there must be some defect in the brain where they can switch off what they did, not feel remorse in the first place or otherwise detach, which also leads me to the conclusion that many of them have some form of insanity which has not been clinically diagnosed, which would be the only reason not to subject them to the death penalty if they did not know at the time what they were doing was wrong. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/93012800/David-Bains-new-life-under-new-name
No Switch Steve - they just don't have the same feelings of guilt that the rest of us have. They're disordered, but not insane.
-
No Switch Steve - they just don't have the same feelings of guilt that the rest of us have. They're disordered, but not insane.
I wonder whether David Bain was trancing during the murders, a trait he learned from his mother Margaret. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2369406/David-Bains-horrible-premonition
-
AP. That is a new suggestion Mike.
Again that would explain the fight Nevill had with another male in the kitchen.
It would also explain Jeremy getting a call from a male at 3am. Jeremy not able to determine it was not Nevill's voice within the 3 second call.
More importantly, I am concerned with the alleged removal of Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle and Parker Hale silencer from the scene of this tragedy, a week before the shootings!
Jeremy Bamber says the Pargeter rifle, and it's Parker Hale silencer was present at the scene when the tragedy unfolded, he even listed 'it' as being present there, by listing it as part of his inventory of weapons that were present inside the farmhouse, which he gave to Police about three hours before the firearm officers entered the premises!
If the Pargeter rifle / silencer wasn't there, when police stormed the farmhouse, why didn't it alert police as to why the rifle and silencer in question, was absent or missing?
-
Who should we believe?
-
Who should we believe?
Bamber, or Anthony Pargeter?
-
Please...
Why would Jeremy Bamber claim that Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle and his Parker Hale silencer were present at the scene, if they weren't?
It doesn't make any sort of sense, to allege that / this, if it weren't true...
-
Please...
Why would Jeremy Bamber claim that Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle and his Parker Hale silencer were present at the scene, if they weren't?
It doesn't make any sort of sense, to allege that / this, if it weren't true...
Ballistics would confirm one way or another, that one or more bullets were fired from the Pargeter rifle as opposed to the Bamber rifle!
-
Use of the Pargeter rifle in these shootings - has far reaching consequences!
Since, by factoring in the usage of the Pargeter rifle in the shootings, there may not necessarily have been any requirement to reload the Bamber owned rifle with additional bullets!
-
Use of the Pargeter rifle in these shootings - has far reaching consequences!
Since, by factoring in the usage of the Pargeter rifle in the shootings, there may not necessarily have been any requirement to reload the Bamber owned rifle with additional bullets!
During the shooting tragedy...
-
What we know with complete certainty - was that the Bamber family owned .22 anshuzt rifle had a 10 shot ammunition magazine, and that the Pargeter owned bolt action rifle had two ammunition magazines (a) a 10 shot, and (b) a 5 shot...
-
What we know with complete certainty - was that the Bamber family owned .22 anshuzt rifle had a 10 shot ammunition magazine, and that the Pargeter owned bolt action rifle had two ammunition magazines (a) a 10 shot, and (b) a 5 shot...
Please..
Add the ammunition capacity of both these .22 calibre rifles together, and you have a minimum bullet capacity of 25...
-
However, factor into this ammunition scenario - the fact that both weapons had the capability, or one or the other, to also have a round ( bullet) loaded into its breech, making a potential maximum capacity of 27, or as the case may be, 26 rounds, 'if' only one of the two weapons had an ' overloaded round' in its breech...
-
However, factor into this ammunition scenario - the fact that both weapons had the capability, or one or the other, to also have a round ( bullet) loaded into its breech, making a potential maximum capacity of 27, or as the case may be, 26 rounds, 'if' only one of the two weapons had an ' overloaded round' in its breech...
This is ' the only valid explanation' which fits the facts in this shooting tragedy!
-
This is ' the only valid explanation' which fits the facts in this shooting tragedy!
THE FACTS:-
25 crime scene spent cartridge cases recovered from the scene..
25 bullets recovered from victims bodies, or as the case may be, recovered from the crime scene..
One bullet, not recovered from the skull of Nicholas Caffell!
There was infact a 26th bullet fired - and because of this astonishing fact, there must surely have been a 26th spent cartridge case that never found its way into physical existence!
-
If I were to write a book, I would probably wish the title to be 'THE 26th BULLET - WAS BAMBER THE KILLER'..
-
If I were to write a book, I would probably wish the title to be 'THE 26th BULLET - WAS BAMBER THE KILLER'..
Questions need to be asked in high places, the authorities cannot be allowed to ignore this very serious discrepancy, or anomaly in the evidence - if Jeremy Bamber be the killer, why would such an anomaly exist?
-
The 26th bullet, and all the issues surrounding 'it' and relating to 'it' need to be on the Home Secretaries desk, in their face, forcing them to become accountable to the general public!
Essex police can't be trusted...
They can't even be relied upon to tell the correct time of day, or as the case may be, the exhibit reference of the silencer, or the Bible, or the hand swabs taken from the hands of Sheila Caffell...
-
The 26th bullet, and all the issues surrounding 'it' and relating to 'it' need to be on the Home Secretaries desk, in their face, forcing them to become accountable to the general public!
Essex police can't be trusted...
They can't even be relied upon to tell the correct time of day, or as the case may be, the exhibit reference of the silencer, or the Bible, or the hand swabs taken from the hands of Sheila Caffell...
The ' Keystone cops' would have done a much better job of the investigation of this tragedy, than Essex police were forced into...
-
25 bullets, 25 spent cartridge cases - but 'one unrecovered BULLET', an additional bullet which had a corresponding bullet case (not found or recovered from the scene)! Now, this suddenly becomes a very serious matter!
It becomes so serious, because there was no spent cartridge case found trapped inside the extraction / ejection mechanism of the Bamber family owned .22 semi-automatic anshuzt rifle...
I pose the following question for the authorities to cringe over - ' what ever happened to the 26th bullet cartridge'?
-
Let's put it this way, the 26th bullet must have had a corresponding 26th spent cartridge case...
-
Let's put it this way, the 26th bullet must have had a corresponding 26th spent cartridge case...
I for one, want an answer, as to what happened to 'it'..
-
SOMEHOW, the 26th bullet case left the crime scene, whether it be at the hand of killer, or as a result of sleight of hand (on the part of the police)..
There was a 26th bullet fired, during the shooting tragedy, and I want an answer as to how this very serious anomaly and inconsistency has been allowed to crop up, and remain unanswered?
This 26th bullet could be the piece of evidence which sets Jeremy Bamber free..
-
SOMEHOW, the 26th bullet case left the crime scene, whether it be at the hand of killer, or as a result of sleight of hand (on the part of the police)..
There was a 26th bullet fired, during the shooting tragedy, and I want an answer as to how this very serious anomaly and inconsistency has been allowed to crop up, and remain unanswered?
This 26th bullet could be the piece of evidence which sets Jeremy Bamber free..
There has been collusion between those who think, that God gave them devine powers, above anyone else, which enabled these people to sweep the issue of the 26th bullet and it's corresponding 26th bullet case under the carpet...
-
There has been collusion between those who think, that God gave them devine powers, above anyone else, which enabled these people to sweep the issue of the 26th bullet and it's corresponding 26th bullet case under the carpet...
I have got news for all these people - this 'bad Smell' will never go away..
-
The 26th Bullet currently lies inside the grave of Nicholas Caffell as a constant reminder that the truth regarding who committed his murder is yet to be settled despite some 33 years having elapsed since the shooting tragedy!
-
The 26th Bullet currently lies inside the grave of Nicholas Caffell as a constant reminder that the truth regarding who committed his murder is yet to be settled despite some 33 years having elapsed since the shooting tragedy!
The killer(s) took away the corresponding 26th bullet case...
-
We know that there was no bullet case in the .22 anshuzt rifle - therefore, there had to have been a second .22 rifle used in the shootings! The only other .22 weapons known to be kept at the scene were a BSA air rifle, and Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle..?
Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle seems the obvious choice as the weapon in which the spent bullet case was carried away from the scene in - after a shot is fired from this type of weapon the corresponding spent cartridge case has to be manually extracted and ejected from the gun, but it seems that at least one bullet case was not extracted or ejected from 'it' after the 26th shot was fired...
The only other alternatives are that (a) a totally different .22 weapon was used at the time of the shootings which the killer, or killers took away with them, or (b) the police discharged at least one round from a .22 weapon belonging to themselves, and that they took the corresponding bullet case away to prevent anyone knowing that police fired at least one shot once they entered the farmhouse!
-
The killer(s) took away the corresponding 26th bullet case...
The Coroner, and the police knew about the existence of the 26th bullet that was left embedded in the skull of one of the child victims, and it follows that they also knew about one missing bullet case from the scene! Yet, they tried to bury this valuable piece of ballistic evidence, by claiming that 25 shots had been fired, there were 25 bullets recovered, 25 corresponding bullet cartridge cases, and that the victims had 25 bullet wounds...
The existence of the 26th bullet, is a problem to the case that was brought against Jeremy Bamber..
It suggests in the strongest terms imaginable that whoever was responsible for shooting the victims dead, did not intend to make it look like Sheila Caffell killed herself, after she supposedly shot dead the other four victims!
-
The existence of the 26th bullet, is a problem to the case that was brought against Jeremy Bamber..
It suggests in the strongest terms imaginable that whoever was responsible for shooting the victims dead, did not intend to make it look like Sheila Caffell killed herself, after she supposedly shot dead the other four victims!
I can't see how anyone who had set out to kill all five victims, who wanted to make it appear like Sheila was the prime shooter, who took her own life afterwards, would take one of the 26 bullet cases away from the scene after they had killed everyone, and set the scene to promote Sheila Caffell's suicide...
How could Sheila have got rid of one of the bullet cases, once she was dead?
-
I can't see how anyone who had set out to kill all five victims, who wanted to make it appear like Sheila was the prime shooter, who took her own life afterwards, would take one of the 26 bullet cases away from the scene after they had killed everyone, and set the scene to promote Sheila Caffell's suicide...
How could Sheila have got rid of one of the bullet cases, once she was dead?
Why would the pathologist, Coroner and police want to cover up the existence of the 26th bullet, and the disappearance of its corresponding 26th bullet case?
-
There's an alternative explanation, worth contemplating..
-
There's an alternative explanation, worth contemplating..
For example, that only 24 bullets were actually recovered from the scene, and that a test fired round was introduced into the batch of crime scene ammunition, along with its corresponding bullet case, to balance the books, so to speak - either way, the powers that be have tampered with the batch of crime scene ammunition..
-
For example, that only 24 bullets were actually recovered from the scene, and that a test fired round was introduced into the batch of crime scene ammunition, along with its corresponding bullet case, to balance the books, so to speak - either way, the powers that be have tampered with the batch of crime scene ammunition..
Why did they tamper with the ballistics evidence?
-
Where did they get the additional bullet they added into the batch of crime scene ammunition from? When was it fired? Who fired it?
-
The contradiction of the body count downstairs in the kitchen (between 7.35am and 8.10am), 'the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female found upon entry to kitchen'..and the mystery surrounding the existence of the 26th bullet and the marked absence of its corresponding 26th bullet case are inexplicably linked together...
As is the claim that a cop mistook the body of Neville Bamber for the body of a dead woman, and vice versa upon entering the farmhouse, two bodies downstairs, a murder, and a suicide...
-
As soon as the second shot was inflicted (the fatal shot into Sheila Caffell's neck) somebody tried desperately to stem the flow of blood from the bullet entry wound by pressing fingers against it...
-
As soon as the second shot was inflicted (the fatal shot into Sheila Caffell's neck) somebody tried desperately to stem the flow of blood from the bullet entry wound by pressing fingers against it...
If Sheila took her own life - 'How did she bring the fingers of her right hand up against the bullet wound and hold her fingers there, and then her right hand end up resting upon the rifle close to the trigger mechanism, 'and, apparently have absolutely no blood at all on the fingers of the same hand?
-
If Sheila took her own life - 'How did she bring the fingers of her right hand up against the bullet wound and hold her fingers there, and then her right hand end up resting upon the rifle close to the trigger mechanism, 'and, apparently have absolutely no blood at all on the fingers of the same hand?
Somebody other than Sheila Caffell thrust the fingers of a hand against the bullet entry wound in an attempt to stem the loss of blood, if that person had been anyone other than a police officer, the prosecution would have used this feature as part of the case they brought against Jeremy Bamber, on the basis that Sheila could not have done that to herself...
-
It gets worse..
-
It gets worse..
You see - sometime after the 2nd shot had been received to Sheila's neck, 'somebody rolled her body into the recovery position upon the right hand side of her body'../
The rifle, therefore, would have fallen out of her grasp, with 'her body resting upon its right hand side'..
-
You see - sometime after the 2nd shot had been received to Sheila's neck, 'somebody rolled her body into the recovery position upon the right hand side of her body'../
The rifle, therefore, would have fallen out of her grasp, with 'her body resting upon its right hand side'..
Rather more alarmingly, blood which subsequently poured out of the 2nd bullet entry wound to Sheila's neck - and trickled down the right hand side of her face, neck and body, and 'it' pooled in the fold of Sheila's right arm which became trapped under the right hand side of her body!
-
No would be killer, or assassin, would have gone to such lengths as to (a) try to stem the flow of blood from the most recent bullet wound, by placing their fingers against the wound to prevent blood from escaping, (b) place Sheila Caffell's body in the recovery position upon its right side, in order to try to keep her alive, and (c) only when it became clear that it was something of a lost cause, roll Sheila's body into the supine position, and only then place the rifle in her possession to make out a false case that she had taken her own life!
She didn't shoot herself - such a suggestion is a wilful, barbaric lie!
-
The only people who could have attempted all of these occurrences, were the police, themselves!
-
The only people who could have attempted all of these occurrences, were the police, themselves!
The police staged Sheila Caffell's death scene, there on the main bedroom floor, as a suicide! If this wasn't true, the prosecution would have been quick to point out all the things I have drawn attention to, as being mistakes made by Jeremy Bamber!
-
What I do know, is that Sheila Caffell's body was resting upon its right hand side for well over a 20 minute period - at least long enough for the blood which had run horizontally in fashion across the right hand side of Sheila's neck and face to dry!
-
What I do know, is that Sheila Caffell's body was resting upon its right hand side for well over a 20 minute period - at least long enough for the blood which had run horizontally in fashion across the right hand side of Sheila's neck and face, to coagulate and dry!
I can't see any would be killer, or assassin carrying out any of these activities, waiting for the blood flow to coagulate and dry, before they set about staging Sheila Caffell's death as a suicide ( that wasn't)!
-
I can't see any would be killer, or assassin carrying out any of these activities, waiting for the blood flow to coagulate and dry, before they set about staging Sheila Caffell's death as a suicide ( that wasn't)!
Where was the anshuzt rifle, at the time Sheila's body was placed into the recovery position?
-
Where was the anshuzt rifle, at the time Sheila's body was placed into the recovery position?
Well, the gun couldn't be trapped beneath her body which was resting upon 'its' right hand side..
-
Well, the gun couldn't be trapped beneath her body which was resting upon 'its' right hand side..
Because, that be the case, there would have been firearms residue found upon her light blue nightdress, from off the anshuzt rifle which we are told had fired all 26 bullets that had been discharged during this shooting tragedy!
-
Exactly, how the rifle had managed to stay in Sheila Caffell's possession during the toing and frowing, and rolling of her body, from its original position of having been upright, sat down, laid back, rolled onto its right hand side, and eventually back again into the supine position on the bedroom floor remains something of a mystery which beggars belief...
How had she managed to manoeuvre the fingers of her right hand, from the trigger mechanism of the rifle, if she had been the one responsible for shooting herself dead there on the main bedroom floor, to the fatal bullet wound in her neck, in an effort to stem the flow of blood from a bullet which according to the pathologist, Venezis, had killed her off immediately?
-
Exactly, how the rifle had managed to stay in Sheila Caffell's possession during the toing and frowing, and rolling of her body, from its original position of having been upright, sat down, laid back, rolled onto its right hand side, and eventually back again into the supine position on the bedroom floor remains something of a mystery which beggars belief...
How had she managed to manoeuvre the fingers of her right hand, from the trigger mechanism of the rifle, if she had been the one responsible for shooting herself dead there on the main bedroom floor, to the fatal bullet wound in her neck, in an effort to stem the flow of blood from a bullet which according to the pathologist, Venezis, had killed her off immediately?
And...
Once her body had been moved from its known position laid upon its right hand side, in the recovery position, back into the supine position clutching the anshuzt rifle which had fired the all important fatal 2nd shot?
-
And...
Once her body had been moved from its known position laid upon its right hand side, in the recovery position, back into the supine position clutching the anshuzt rifle which had fired the all important fatal 2nd shot?
These details inform us all, that Sheila Caffell could not have shot herself dead, there on the main bedroom floor, and been a party to all the activity which must surely have accompanied her demise after she had almost certainly already had died..
No would be killer, or hired assassin, would have tried to keep Sheila alive, after he, she, or they, had shot her dead on the bedroom floor by way of a 2nd fatal shot from the anshuzt rifle...
It doesn't add up, or make any sense whatsoever...
The only people who would have showed any interest in trying to keep Sheila Caffell alive were the police themselves, who witnessed the occasion when the so called 2nd fatal shot was discharged during a police training exercise ('informatives') which had gone horribly wrong! Sheila almost certainly died after the police surgeon, Dr Craig had already pronounced her as being dead! The absolute truth is that she wasn't and could not have been dead at 'that' (8.44am) time...
The outpouring of blood from the 2nd bullet entry wound led police to believe that Sheila was still alive after the occasion that Dr Craig had pronounced her as being dead!
-
According to the timed police message log evidence, Sheila was the dead female body downstairs in the kitchen at 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am and 7.45am, she was then dead upstairs in the main bedroom 'on the far side of the bed' at 8.44am, but if the truth be known, she did not die, and she was not killed off until 9.13am on the main bedroom floor...
Police shot her dead, accidentally on the main bedroom floor, long after Dr Craig had left the farmhouse, and long after the ambulance crews had already left the scene too!
-
The truth surrounding the Demise of Sheila Caffell took place somewhere between 7.35am, and 9.13am, inside the farmhouse, when police themselves had full control of 'it'...
Sheila hadn't and didn't shoot herself dead, neither did or had Jeremy Bamber, or any would be hired hitman, or assassin killed her off - her unfortunate death was at the hands of the police, a tragic accident which for whatever reason, Essex police could not bring themselves to ' fess up to, once the nature of the investigation changed course early September 1985, and the relatives sensed that something simply didn't add up!
-
The relatives refused to accept, that Sheila could have shot and killed off the other four victims, and then had gone on to take her own life - imagine then what relatives would have made of the fact that Sheila's body had been pronounced as being dead downstairs in the kitchen (7.45am, 7.37am, 7.38am and 7.42am), not present upstairs by 8.10am, then dead upstairs, ' on the far side of the bed' by 8.44am, her body being laid alongside the body of June Bamber ( laid on top of the bed, with a Bible on her chest) at shortly after 9.00am sporting only one bullet entry wound by this stage, only to wind up dead there on the main bedroom floor clutching a rifle?
-
The relatives refused to accept, that Sheila could have shot and killed off the other four victims, and then had gone on to take her own life - imagine then what relatives would have made of the fact that Sheila's body had been pronounced as being dead downstairs in the kitchen (7.45am, 7.37am, 7.38am and 7.42am), not present upstairs by 8.10am, then dead upstairs, ' on the far side of the bed' by 8.44am, her body being laid alongside the body of June Bamber ( laid on top of the bed, with a Bible on her chest) at shortly after 9.00am sporting only one bullet entry wound by this stage, only to wind up dead there on the main bedroom floor clutching a rifle?
Nobody is making any of this up, this is what eye witness accounts, and documentary evidence 'which' suggests did, and what had taken place...
-
Imagine how the relatives would have reacted, had they known or found out about any of this?
-
Imagine how the relatives would have reacted, had they known or found out about any of this?
The information I have received, is that by the beginning of September 1985 the relatives knew all about Sheila's body being found downstairs in the region of the kitchen and the Laundry room, and her body being 'on the far side of the bed' at 8.44am, then her body resting on top of the bed next to the body of June Bamber, until her body ( (just like June's body) ended up on the bedroom floor!
-
The information I have received, is that by the beginning of September 1985 the relatives knew all about Sheila's body being found downstairs in the region of the kitchen and the Laundry room, and her body being 'on the far side of the bed' at 8.44am, then her body resting on top of the bed next to the body of June Bamber, until her body ( (just like June's body) ended up on the bedroom floor!
By the time Robert Boutflour went along to speak to ACC Simpson, relatives had chapter and verse on exactly how, and in what circumstances Sheila ended up being shot for the second time!
-
Is it any wonder then, why Essex police are reluctant to admit publicly who was involved and what took place during the hour long episode of a training exercise known as ' informatives' when Sheila got shot to death?
-
Is it any wonder then, why Essex police are reluctant to admit publicly who was involved and what took place during the hour long episode of a training exercise known as ' informatives' when Sheila got shot to death?
It's now relatively simple for anyone to determine what took place during that hour long training exercise ('informatives'), involving senior detectives, a couple of firearm officers, and a spare SOC team ( DC Oakey, and DC Henderson)..
-
It's now relatively simple for anyone to determine what took place during that hour long training exercise ('informatives'), involving senior detectives, a couple of firearm officers, and a spare SOC team ( DC Oakey, and DC Henderson)..
This training exercise ('informatives') took place, but Harris, Gibbons, Wright and Jones, didn't want to talk about it because they know that Sheila Caffell was shot dead on their watch, whilst they were conducting 'informatives'...
-
How could it be possible, for Jeremy Bamber to have shot his sister, not once, but twice, with a silencer fitted onto the end of the anshuzt rifle which fired the 2nd shot which ended his sister's life, when he was outside with other police officers in Pages Lane at the time she was killed?
-
Jeremy had told me countless times, that there was no silencer on the anshuzt rifles barrell on Tuesday evening when he he handled the family rifle!
I believe him!
-
Jeremy had told me countless times, that there was no silencer on the anshuzt rifles barrell on Tuesday evening when he he handled the family rifle!
I believe him!
This leaves the .22 bolt action rifle owned by Anthony Pargeter, a rifle which always had its silencer screwed onto the end of its barrel - a weapon that was kept in the downstairs bathroom / toilet...
-
This leaves the .22 bolt action rifle owned by Anthony Pargeter, a rifle which always had its silencer screwed onto the end of its barrel - a weapon that was kept in the downstairs bathroom / toilet...
In a statement made to Essex police by Anthony Pargeter, he states that he always kept his .22 rifle, accessories and ammunition at the farmhouse, although he had a habit of removing the bolt so that no-one else could fire his rifle in his absence! However, by the time of the COLP enquiry, he was saying that his .22 rifle was not even present at the scene at the time of the shooting tragedy - he claims that he toolkit home on the penultimate week-end beforehand to his home in BourneEnd...
-
In a statement made to Essex police by Anthony Pargeter, he states that he always kept his .22 rifle, accessories and ammunition at the farmhouse, although he had a habit of removing the bolt so that no-one else could fire his rifle in his absence! However, by the time of the COLP enquiry, he was saying that his .22 rifle was not even present at the scene at the time of the shooting tragedy - he claims that he toolkit home on the penultimate week-end beforehand to his home in BourneEnd...
Jeremy Bamber included the Pargeter rifle in his inventory that the firearms team asked him to draft up at the scene, at around 5.00am at the scene..
-
The other relatives recovered Anthony Pargeters .22 rifle and silencer from white house farm on the 10 the August 1985. It was the Pargeter silencer which David Boutflour tried to unscrew the top off, and which he used a razor blade to scrape dried blood from - Peter Eaton handed this silencer to DS Jones on the evening 12th August 1975!
-
The other relatives recovered Anthony Pargeters .22 rifle and silencer from white house farm on the 10 the August 1985. It was the Pargeter silencer which David Boutflour tried to unscrew the top off, and which he used a razor blade to scrape dried blood from - Peter Eaton handed this silencer to DS Jones on the evening 12th August 1975!
The relatives (Boutflours and Eaton's) thought that Anthony Pargeter had been involved with Jeremy in the shooting dead of the victims, until Essex police found a way to substitute the Pargeter silencer, for the Bamber owned one..
-
By the time Robert Boutflour went along to speak to ACC Simpson, relatives had chapter and verse on exactly how, and in what circumstances Sheila ended up being shot for the second time!
That is a reasonable assumption to make. DS Stan Jones (and not DC Mick Clark) had told Ann Eaton that he had seen Sheila's body on the bed with a bible on her chest. and the rifle resting on the bed in-between the bodies of June and Sheila..That information would have been passed on to the other relatives yes, this is what did take place.. leaving the police with some explaining to do to account for the discrepancy between what Jones had told Ann Eaton and the photographs showing Sheila's body on the floor. this disparity mentioned in several newspaper articles, Sheila's body found on top of bed, and found on the bedroom floor..
Saying that what Jones told Ann Eaton was a "mistake" won't wash because he had just come from the crime scene and was describing what he had just seen himself. Sheila was laid on top of the bed, before her body was moved onto the bedroom floor.. Jones relates in his own records that he had seen Sheila and said that her body was on the far side of the bed and that she looked peaceful. because Sheila's body was laid on top of the bed at the time of DS Jones first visit to the main bedroom..
The relatives would have asked Jones for an explanation of the discrepency between what he had told them on August 7th and what appeared in the photographs taken after he had left. this confrontation almost certainly happenned at the beginning of September 1985..He probably would have eventually told them the truth, namely that Sheila was shot again after Dr Craig's examination. .. this is true.. At any rate he would have had to tell them something.
-
It's a myth that Jones suspected Jeremy from the first day. He must have known that Jeremy was innocent because of the changes to the crimescene after he had left for Goldhanger. How could colleagues have kept the truth from Stan, when he asked them to tell him what had happened.
Either the police accidentally shot Sheila after he left or she got off the bed and shot herself. Whatever the truth is, Jones would have been told. The blood flow from the second wound makes it obvious that Sheila was still alive when she was shot the second time, so Jones would have known that Jeremy was innocent and the relatives would have pressed him to tell them what he knew.
-
All of these people, the relatives and the police involved in the investigation would have known within the first few weeks that Bamber was innocent.
The reason for the framing of Jeremy was that Robert Boutflour threatened to go to the press with what he knew about a police cover up. ACC Peter Simpson gave in to his demands and ordered his subordinates to look for ways to bring about the prosecution of Bamber, because he knew that this was the only way to guarantee the silence of the relatives.
This does not imply that Simpson knew about the faking of the silencer evidence by Stan Jones and other lower ranking officers when the plot was first hatched by Jones and DI Ron Cook, probably after September 6th when Julie Mugford came forward.
He seems not to have known about it before the press conference of September 17th, or known about the set up false finding on September 11th which was backdated in fraudulent witness statements to make it appear that David Boutflour found a silencer on August 10th, but it is clear when he found out about it he went along with it. He may have felt that he had no choice.
-
The above interpretation is indicated by the fact that Simpson told the press on September 17th that a silencer had been found by the police on August 7th. The fact that this report was soon after retracted suggests that he had been informed of what was afoot only after the gaffe of admitting that the police found the silencer which was sent to Huntingdon laboratory on August 14th.
If the police found the silencer in gun cupboard on August 7th 1985, they must have also found the other items which were in the same location and which were given related exhibit references. SBJ/1 was the silencer, SBJ/2 was the telescopic sight and so on. So how could the relatives have found those things on the August 10th?
The relatives did not find a silencer on August 10th. The police returned items to the gun cupboard of Whitehouse Farm to set up the fake finding on September 11th, before backdating the visit and telling the story that Jones collected the silencer from Ann and Peter Eaton on August 13th, but had left other items including the telescopic sight with the Eatons until it was collected by DC Oakey on September 11th. The fact is Oakey did collect the silencer along with the telescopic sight from Ann Eaton. Of course, Ann Eaton knows that.
Doc P31) Telephone Message Log 38, 11th September 1985 reads:
‘David Boutflour states he has found a silencer with blood on it’
(Doc P35) Action Report 88 reads: ‘Collection of silencer AE (Ann Eaton) 11th September to Wright items obtained by DC Oakey’
-
Either the police accidentally shot Sheila after he left or she got off the bed and shot herself. Whatever the truth is, Jones would have been told. The blood flow from the second wound makes it obvious that Sheila was still alive when she was shot the second time, so Jones would have known that Jeremy was innocent and the relatives would have pressed him to tell them what he knew.
Yes. She was alive for second or two prior to self inflicting the second shot.
Shelia was never on the bed. There was no blood present to show this. The RAID team notes all state Sheila was on the floor. This is corroborated by the crime scene photos and the shell casing location.
These cranky dopey theories of yours and Mikes do Jeremy no favours. They have to end.
-
The above interpretation is indicated by the fact that Simpson told the press on September 17th that a silencer had been found by the police on August 7th. The fact that this report was soon after retracted suggests that he had been informed of what was afoot only after the gaffe of admitting that the police found the silencer which was sent to Huntingdon laboratory on August 14th.
If the police found the silencer in gun cupboard on August 7th 1985, they must have also found the other items which were in the same location and which were given related exhibit references. SBJ/1 was the silencer, SBJ/2 was the telescopic sight and so on. So how could the relatives have found those things on the August 10th?
The relatives did not find a silencer on August 10th. The police returned items to the gun cupboard of Whitehouse Farm to set up the fake finding on September 11th, before backdating the visit and telling the story that Jones collected the silencer from Ann and Peter Eaton on August 13th, but had left other items including the telescopic sight with the Eatons until it was collected by DC Oakey on September 11th. The fact is Oakey did collect the silencer along with the telescopic sight from Ann Eaton. Of course, Ann Eaton knows that.
Doc P31) Telephone Message Log 38, 11th September 1985 reads:
‘David Boutflour states he has found a silencer with blood on it’
(Doc P35) Action Report 88 reads: ‘Collection of silencer AE (Ann Eaton) 11th September to Wright items obtained by DC Oakey’
Its already been pointed out to you that what Oakley collected was the box that contained the silencer that David Boutflour found.
You allege that all the huntingdon lab records and COLP documents that contradict you are an ellaborate collection of "backdated forgeries" yet you have nothing to show this is the case.
Another cranky dopey theory of yours and Mikes thats already up in smoke.
-
It's a myth that Jones suspected Jeremy from the first day. Jeremy wasn't suspected of killing Sheila because he hadn't killed her. He didn't get put in the frame for Sheila's killing until after the first week in September 1985..He must have known that Jeremy was innocent because of the changes to the crimescene after he had left for Goldhanger. I think he had doubts once he found out about the angle and trajectory of the first shot which turned out to be fired horizontal in fashion across Sheila's neck - at a time when she only had one shot to her neck..How could colleagues have kept the truth from Stan, when he asked them to tell him what had happened. as I say, I think DS Jones did not believe that Sheila had shot herself across the neck at the time she only had one shot to her neck..
Either the police accidentally shot Sheila after he left or she got off the bed and shot herself. .. if Sheila had shot herself, I think police would have reported it as it had happenned..Whatever the truth is, Jones would have been told. yes, I think he eventually was told.. The blood flow from the second wound makes it obvious that Sheila was still alive when she was shot the second time, that's why the cops tried to stem the flow of blood, from the second bullet entry wound using fingers..[/li][/list] so Jones would have known that Jeremy was innocent innocent of shooting dead, his sister..and the relatives would have pressed him to tell them what he knew.
-
Its already been pointed out to you that what Oakley collected was the box that contained the silencer that David Boutflour found. rather than trying to rubbish the actual truth, you ought to ask yourself why David Boutflour decided to telephone Essex police and tell them that he had found 'the silencer' to the gun. Rather more telling was the fact that by 14th September 1985, how he had found each of the two silencers inside the gun cupboard in the den, by pointing out that he had found 'a silencer' in 'this' place, and 'that' place in the same gun cupboard? Now, if David Boutflour found two silencers in the gun cupboard as stated by himself in a report to Essex police by the 14th September 1985, how come the relatives only handed over one silencer (Peter Eaton to DS Jones on evening of 12th August 1985) to police? So, by all means offer your opinion, but try to stop short of trying to make out that people like me, don't know what we are talking about! Sheila didn't shoot herself dead, that's my take on the matter! And, more importantly, she was originally shot across the neck by a weapon with a silencer fitted onto the end of the guns barrel, there can be little doubt about this. There was no silencer in contact with Sheila's neck at the time the second fatal shot was received - two guns, one with a silencer fitted, the other, silencerless!
You allege that all the huntingdon lab records and COLP documents that contradict you are an ellaborate collection of "backdated forgeries" yet you have nothing to show this is the case. unfortunately, there are 'huggins of documentary evidence' proving beyond a shadow of doubt that the Lab' records were doctored!
Another cranky dopey theory of yours and Mikes look at your own theories, and Jeremy's himself - Sheila couldn't have shot herself, it's an impossibility! thats already up in smoke. Great, you have all the answers that don't add up, or make any sense at all - you, Jeremy and all the other supporters will never be able to prove that Sheila took her own life because she didn't. There's more chance of the trial judge ( Mr Justice Drake) being Sheila's killer..
-
Yes. She was alive for second or two there was a far more lengthy delay between the infliction of the two shots, not merely a matter of a second or two..prior to self inflicting the second shot impossible, Sheila did not shoot herself..
Shelia was never on the bed. Sheila was never only on the main bedroom floor, she was seen through the laundry room window on the laundry room floor behind the door, before police started to force the external farmhouse door open! She was then inside the kitchen after the body of Neville Bamber had already been reported as also having been found, at 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, and 7.45am! Sheila"s body was none of the three bodies that were present upstairs by 8.10am.. There was no blood present to show this. please, stop being ridiculous! Look at the vertical blood flow from the lower bullet entry wound ( this relates to the first shot across the neck inflicted downstairs in the kitchen)! You can see that Sheila had not bled profusely after she received that first shot, unlike the blood flow from the fatal second shot which caused the triangular bloodstain in the region of Sheila's nightdress ( right armpit)..The RAID team notes all state Sheila was on the floor. the contemporaneously recorded timed police radio message log contents, place Sheila's body downstairs on the kitchen floor..This is corroborated by the crime scene photos and the shell casing location. but, by the same token, contradicted by the missing, withheld other crime scene photographs, and crime scene video taken by DC Oakey and DC Henderson (1st SOCO team - 9am to 10am)..
These cranky dopey theories of yours and Mikes do Jeremy no favours. They have to end. your own theories are unworkable, and Jeremy will remain where he is indefinitely, until you see the errors of your ways..
-
I am a real life case investigator, it doesn't matter to me, if the case I am reviewing is a murder case, or a shop lifting offence, I see it as it is, as it was - in the instant case, I can say with a degree of certainty that Sheila Caffell did not shoot herself dead, there on the main bedroom floor! She did not receive two shots within moments of one another, she did not raise the fingers of her right hand to the fatal bullet wound to her neck to try and stem the flow of blood from pouring out of that 2nd wound..
It happenned exactly as I have told it countless times, cops shot Sheila dead at 9.13am, during a police training exercise which went dramatically wrong!
Why do you think that senior officers, two firearm officers, and two SOCO's daren't talk about the duties they performed inside the main bedroom between 9am - 10am on the first morning of the shooting tragedy? Jeremy didn't kill his sister, the cops did..
I am 100% certain that this is what did take place!
The alleged case relied upon by the prosecution to help get Jeremy Bamber convicted was contrived and totally dishonest..
-
The alleged case relied upon by the prosecution to help get Jeremy Bamber convicted was contrived and totally dishonest..
Cook and his crooks had no legal right to claim that they had photographed the bodies undisturbed 'insitu', and they had no legal right to claim that it was 'they' who had seized all the exhibits, including the anshuzt rifle, bullet cases, and the bible - since, DC Oakey and DC Henderson had already carried out these duties, and walked in the footsteps of Cook, Davidson, Hammersley and PC Bird (2nd SOCO team) - the second SOCO team simply collected up the exhibits which the first SOCO team and senior officers left for them to collect up!
-
Yes. She was alive for second or two prior to self inflicting the second shot.
Shelia was never on the bed. There was no blood present to show this. The RAID team notes all state Sheila was on the floor. This is corroborated by the crime scene photos and the shell casing location.
These cranky dopey theories of yours and Mikes do Jeremy no favours. They have to end.
"Yes. She was alive for second or two prior to self inflicting the second shot."
It is notable that whenever this anomaly is pointed out to you, you just avoid responding.
The photographs of Sheila show that it's not only plainly obvious that she couldn't have died before 03:00 in the morning which was over seven hours before the photographs showing fresh blood were taken, but also that a time of death at the time the police broke in at about 07:30 is also ruled out according to accepted medical assumptions about the time it takes for blood trails to dry.
(http://i.imgur.com/nggFO.jpg)
If Sheila had shot herself twice at 07:30 or thereabouts she would have been dead for over two hours before photographs showing blood still discharging were taken.
Professors Meloni Cavalli said that they thought Sheila could not have been dead for more than two hours when the photographs were taken. That does not mean that they thought she had been dead for two hours.
In fact it implies the view she had probably been dead for less than that time. The two hours is meant to set an upper limit to the time, not to claim it was the most probably time. You seem to think that the extreme limit set allows you to fit in a time of two hours to accommodate 07:30. It's a common mistake to confuse different kinds of question in that way.
The theory that there was only a few seconds between the two shots is contradicted by the pathologist Peter Vanezis, who said in court that he could tell from the large amount of hemorrhaging that the lower wound must have been inflicted some time earlier than the upper, because the upper wound would have been instantly fatal.
You listen to that, but still claim that there was only a few seconds between the two shots, so what's the point of arguing.
Also, when Dr Craig certified Sheila dead at 8:44, he said that he saw only one bullet wound and he said that the blood was dry. The photograph taken at around 10:00am shows two wounds and blood trails that are still wet. Craig confirmed in his later statement to COLP that he really did see only one wound at that stage.
It's notable that Craig was careful not to say that there definitely was only one wound, but expresses himself in a way that is curiously ambiguous-as if there might have been two, but he only saw one! The COLP investigators ought to have asked him to express himself more clearly. It was probably they who suggested he put it like that.
In truth, it's absurd that Craig would not have seen two bullet wounds if they had both been there, because the two trails lead the eye to them. Although what looks like a trail from the lower wound is actually a mirror stain from the upper trail, it looked at a casual glance like a trail from the lower wound.
How could Craig not have noticed the two trails, if they had both been present at that time?
Mike Tesko says he has seen a photograph of Sheila on the bed and he says that the two blood trails running to Sheila's right were not there at that stage. That makes perfect sense given that the lower trail is a mirror stain from the upper, which probably occurred when a cop moved Sheila head to the right a few seconds after the second shot. If he lifted her head, it may have caused two skin surfaces to have contact, hence the mirror stain.
There was a trail from the lower wound running down across the necklace. It is still there in the later pictures but feint, just as if somebody had tried to remove it. The upper wound was inflicted after the picture Mike saw was taken.
-
Its already been pointed out to you that what Oakley collected was the box that contained the silencer that David Boutflour found.
You allege that all the huntingdon lab records and COLP documents that contradict you are an ellaborate collection of "backdated forgeries" yet you have nothing to show this is the case.
Another cranky dopey theory of yours and Mikes thats already up in smoke.
Those records are far from consistent. In fact they are full of contradictions. There is plenty evidence of wrongdoing.
It's just not credible that ACC Simpson was "mistaken" when he said at a press conference on September 17th that the police had found a silencer on August 7th.
-
That is a reasonable assumption to make. DS Stan Jones (and not DC Mick Clark) had told Ann Eaton that he had seen Sheila's body on the bed with a bible on her chest. and the rifle resting on the bed in-between the bodies of June and Sheila..[/color][/i]That information would have been passed on to the other relatives yes, this is what did take place.. leaving the police with some explaining to do to account for the discrepancy between what Jones had told Ann Eaton and the photographs showing Sheila's body on the floor. this disparity mentioned in several newspaper articles, Sheila's body found on top of bed, and found on the bedroom floor..
Saying that what Jones told Ann Eaton was a "mistake" won't wash because he had just come from the crime scene and was describing what he had just seen himself. Sheila was laid on top of the bed, before her body was moved onto the bedroom floor.. Jones relates in his own records that he had seen Sheila and said that her body was on the far side of the bed and that she looked peaceful. because Sheila's body was laid on top of the bed at the time of DS Jones first visit to the main bedroom..
The relatives would have asked Jones for an explanation of the discrepency between what he had told them on August 7th and what appeared in the photographs taken after he had left. this confrontation almost certainly happenned at the beginning of September 1985..He probably would have eventually told them the truth, namely that Sheila was shot again after Dr Craig's examination. .. this is true.. At any rate he would have had to tell them something.
Where is the evidence that Stan Jones told Ann Eaton the above?
-
Where is the evidence that Stan Jones told Ann Eaton the above?
Ann Eaton made a witness statement to the COLP investigators, saying that she was told by a police officer that June and Sheila's bodies were laid on top of the bed, that Sheila had a Bible resting on her chest, and the silencerless anshuzt rifle resting on the bed in between the two bodies - take your pick, since only Clarke and Jones visited Jeremy's cottage on the first morning of Essex police's investigation. Ann Eaton told COLP she couldn't remember who that officer was, does anybody believe her?
-
Where is the evidence that Stan Jones told Ann Eaton the above?
Mike Tesko writes
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9524.msg441824.html#msg441824
"I personally asked Jeremy if he was there when the police told Ann Eaton that he had seen Sheila and June Bambers bodies laid side by side on top of the bed in his parents bedroom? He said, 'no'. When I put it to Jeremy that he must have been there, Jeremy told me that he was with DC Mick Clark at the time it was said by Stan Jones, giving him his first witness statement...
The rather worrying thing about all of this, from what Jeremy has told me, was that Ann Eaton and the relatives never mentioned any of these details to him at all..."
Ann Eaton has never tried to claim that Jeremy was present when the "police" gave her that information, so it would seem unreasonable to try to make out that Jeremy was lying when he told Mike he was with DC Mick Clark at the time
DS Jones and DC Mick Clark were the only policeman at Jeremy's cottage at that time. If Jeremy was with Mick Clark, it must have been Jones who told Ann Eaton where the bodies were found and from Jones or from Ann Eaton that Julie Mugford, who was also there, got the description of Sheila on the bed with a bible on her chest.
It is notable that when Ann Eaton answers a question untruthfully she sometimes says "I think" when she knows the truth.
For example, when asked in court by Rivlin, defending, who it was who told her about Sheila having a bible on her chest she answered "I think it was Julie Mugford". She knew it was the police and when Rivlin presented her with her own statement, she was forced to admit it.
In her statements, when relating what the "police" told her concerning the location of the bodies, she made it seem like she was unsure who the officer was who told her about the bible on Sheila's chest. She said "I think it was Mick Clark". She knew it was Stan Jones.
Putting two and two together DS Jones did not want her to tell anybody that he had told her about Sheila being on the bed with a bible on her chest and for a reason which should seem obvious. He wanted to avoid being questioned as to why he gave that information, if Sheila had really been found on the bedroom floor.
-
Mike Tesko writes
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9524.msg441824.html#msg441824
"I personally asked Jeremy if he was there when the police told Ann Eaton that he had seen Sheila and June Bambers bodies laid side by side on top of the bed in his parents bedroom? He said, 'no'. When I put it to Jeremy that he must have been there, Jeremy told me that he was with DC Mick Clark at the time it was said by Stan Jones, giving him his first witness statement...
The rather worrying thing about all of this, from what Jeremy has told me, was that Ann Eaton and the relatives never mentioned any of these details to him at all..."
Ann Eaton has never tried to claim that Jeremy was present when the "police" gave her that information, so it would seem unreasonable to try to make out that Jeremy was lying when he told Mike he was with DC Mick Clark at the time
DS Jones and DC Mick Clark were the only policeman at Jeremy's cottage at that time. If Jeremy was with Mick Clark, it must have been Jones who told Ann Eaton where the bodies were found and from Jones or from Ann Eaton that Julie Mugford, who was also there, got the description of Sheila on the bed with a bible on her chest.
It is notable that when Ann Eaton answers a question untruthfully she sometimes says "I think" when she knows the truth.
For example, when asked in court by Rivlin, defending, who it was who told her about Sheila having a bible on her chest she answered "I think it was Julie Mugford". She knew it was the police and when Rivlin presented her with her own statement, she was forced to admit it.
In her statements, when relating what the "police" told her concerning the location of the bodies, she made it seem like she was unsure who the officer was who told her about the bible on Sheila's chest. She said "I think it was Mick Clark". She knew it was Stan Jones.
Putting two and two together DS Jones did not want her to tell anybody that he had told her about Sheila being on the bed with a bible on her chest and for a reason which should seem obvious. He wanted to avoid being questioned as to why he gave that information, if Sheila had really been found on the bedroom floor.
I'm sorry, how does the above answer my question?
-
Ann Eaton made a witness statement to the COLP investigators, saying that she was told by a police officer that June and Sheila's bodies were laid on top of the bed, that Sheila had a Bible resting on her chest, and the silencerless anshuzt rifle resting on the bed in between the two bodies - take your pick, since only Clarke and Jones visited Jeremy's cottage on the first morning of Essex police's investigation. Ann Eaton told COLP she couldn't remember who that officer was, does anybody believe her?
How do you know they were told this (if they were) on the morning of the murders? Ann didn't know the anshuzt had been the murder weapon until after the meeting with Jones on 9th.
-
Where is the evidence that Stan Jones told Ann Eaton the above?
Jeremy was told by Ann Eaton, and the others, after he made his first witness statement to DC Clark at his cottage. He was told by Julie Mugford' that Jones had told Ann and the others gathered there that morning that Sheila was found with a Bible on her chest, laid on top of the parents bed along with the body of her mother, with the gun resting between their bodies! Jeremy told me this after the time we had a fall out over the rule 37a letter with the photograph which I posted into him which shows Sheila's body on the bed, on her own, shot once, no Bible on her chest, no sign of June being on bed alongside her, and no sight of any gun - this is when I first became aware that the bodies of Sheila and June had been laid on top of the bed, and not on the bedroom floor, one body either side of that bed!
Look, rather than suggest that what I am telling everyone that Sheila's body was on the bed, alone, no Bible on chest, no-one else present on bed, and no weapon on show, Jeremy's legal team, should concentrate upon trying to gain access to the actual letter and it's attachment that I sent to Jeremy on the very day I seized the crucial photograph which prison security seized when my letter and it's attachment arrived at HMP Full Sutton..
There exists an Essex police action report asking how Jeremy knew Sheila had a Bible on her chest?
-
Jeremy was told by Ann Eaton, and the others, after he made his first witness statement to DC Clark at his cottage. He was told by Julie Mugford' that Jones had told Ann and the others gathered there that morning that Sheila was found with a Bible on her chest, laid on top of the parents bed along with the body of her mother, with the gun resting between their bodies! Jeremy told me this after the time we had a fall out over the rule 37a letter with the photograph which I posted into him which shows Sheila's body on the bed, on her own, shot once, no Bible on her chest, no sign of June being on bed alongside her, and no sight of any gun - this is when I first became aware that the bodies of Sheila and June had been laid on top of the bed, and not on the bedroom floor, one body either side of that bed!
Look, rather than suggest that what I am telling everyone that Sheila's body was on the bed, alone, no Bible on chest, no-one else present on bed, and no weapon on show, Jeremy's legal team, should concentrate upon trying to gain access to the actual letter and it's attachment that I sent to Jeremy on the very day I seized the crucial photograph which prison security seized when my letter and it's attachment arrived at HMP Full Sutton..
There exists an Essex police action report asking how Jeremy knew Sheila had a Bible on her chest?
I have asked him bout it, he said he knew nothing about it.
-
I have asked him bout it, he said he knew nothing about it.
Of course he knew about Sheila's body being laid on top of the bed - he read the newspaper article stating this to be true!
He obviously didn't trust you, or the questions you were asking, either that or he was trying to suppress me from pursuing the factual events?
I don't have to please Jeremy Bamber with my thoughts, or beliefs - he can say and think whatever he wants to try and make out a disassociation between himself and me, but I am factual, where he is hopeful...
-
Of course he knew about Sheila's body being laid on top of the bed - he read the newspaper article stating this to be true!
He obviously didn't trust you, or the questions you were asking, either that or he was trying to suppress me from pursuing the factual events?
I don't have to please Jeremy Bamber with my thoughts, or beliefs - he can say and think whatever he wants to try and make out a disassociation between himself and me, but I am factual, where he is hopeful...
He didn't shoot his sister dead on the main bedroom floor..
His attempt to try and suggest that his sister shot the others, and then she shot herself twice, quite simple doesn't add up, or equate with the now known facts..
-
He didn't shoot his sister dead on the main bedroom floor..
His attempt to try and suggest that his sister shot the others, and then she shot herself twice, quite simple doesn't add up, or equate with the now known facts..
Sheila was seen on the Laundry room floor behind the door (7.30 am) through the laundry room window, then she was reported as 'dead' in the kitchen upon entry to the premises, after the body of one dead male was already reported as being dead also in the kitchen! Then Sheila's body was reportedly 'laying on the far side of the bed', so she couldn't have been laid on the main bedroom floor, where police decided to say that her body had been originally found..
'it wasn't..
-
Sheila was definitely laid on top of the bed, shot once prior to her body being photographed on the bedroom floor, sporting two neck wounds
-
Sheila was definitely laid on top of the bed, shot once prior to her body being photographed on the bedroom floor, sporting two neck wounds
The impression on the left hand view of the pillow confirms that Sheila's body had been resting there, before PC Bird started to take his photographs of Sheila's body on the main bedroom floor..
-
The impression on the left hand view of the pillow confirms that Sheila's body had been resting there, before PC Bird started to take his photographs of Sheila's body on the main bedroom floor..
Let's start at the beginning of a remarkable set of circumstances...
-
Let's start at the beginning of a remarkable set of circumstances...
I didn't know that Ewen Smith had applied to become a CCRC Commissionaire..
-
I didn't know that Ewen Smith had applied to become a CCRC Commissionaire..
I wasn't aware, neither did I know that Jeremy had sacked Ewen Smith, and employed the service of Giovanni De Stefano as his legal representative!
-
I didn't know that the CCRC had obtained all 581 crime scene photographs and the crime video from Essex police and that they had disclosed all the 581 photographs to Ewen Smith (in confidence) after he had applied to be a CCRC Commissioner - but I saw many of these images...
-
I didn't know that the CCRC had obtained all 581 crime scene photographs and the crime video from Essex police and that they had disclosed all the 581 photographs to Ewen Smith (in confidence) after he had applied to be a CCRC Commissioner - but I saw many of these images...
Why would I say that Sheila's body had been photographed laid on top of the bed, sporting the first wound which had been inflicted if this was not true? No rifle on her body, or next to it, and no Bible resting on top of her chest, if what I have seen is untrue?
What good can come from me making something like this up?
-
Of course he knew about Sheila's body being laid on top of the bed - he read the newspaper article stating this to be true!
He obviously didn't trust you, or the questions you were asking, either that or he was trying to suppress me from pursuing the factual events?
I don't have to please Jeremy Bamber with my thoughts, or beliefs - he can say and think whatever he wants to try and make out a disassociation between himself and me, but I am factual, where he is hopeful...
Ah, he didn't trust me - that must be it ::). However, whats written in a paper in 1985 isn't proof that the event took place. Papers get things wrong. You once stated that you still had a copy of the photograph to prove your claim - that was some years ago now.
-
Ah, he didn't trust me - that must be it ::). However, whats written in a paper in 1985 isn't proof that the event took place. Papers get things wrong. You once stated that you still had a copy of the photograph to prove your claim - that was some years ago now.
Yes, Papers get things wrong, just like juries, police and the CPS..
I have an independent witness who I showed the said photograph of Sheila laid by herself on top of the parents bed, not with the body of June Bamber, nor with any Bible on Sheila's chest, or the gun nearby, and she having been shot just the once in the neck - the prison service also have my letter and the photograph at the heart of this matter..
Jeremy doesn't trust anybody who does not agree with his way of thinking - sadly, he thinks his sister shot and killed herself there on the main bedroom floor, after she had already been photographed laid on top of the bed sporting a single bullet entry wound, out of which had dribbled a vertical flow of blood!
-
There can be no doubt about it, Essex police in the form of senior detectives, two firearm officers, and the first team SOCO, staged the death scenes of June Bamber and Sheila Caffell, there on the main bedroom floor, either side of the bed!
-
There can be no doubt about it, Essex police in the form of senior detectives, two firearm officers, and the first team SOCO, staged the death scenes of June Bamber and Sheila Caffell, there on the main bedroom floor, either side of the bed!
This was after police shot Sheila with the fatal PV/19 bullet from use of the anshuzt rifle which was simply being used as a prop in a training exercise (Informatives)...