Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Jane on July 30, 2018, 08:28:AM
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We've all had dreams about what the future holds for us. How many of us have fulfilled those dreams? What, I wonder, were Jeremy's? Supporters have laid it on with a trowel how he loved the farming way of life and wanted nothing more than to follow Nevill. That part, at least when he was very small, as little boys tend to hero worship daddies, may have been true. I don't believe it lasted. So far, no one has actually worked out how much -how LITTLE- time Jeremy actually put into farming from the time he left full time education.
I can see him trailing round the farm with Nevill. I can hear Nevill inculcating him with an obligation to what the future held for him. Having a choice might have helped. Was there never any question in Nevill's mind about whether Jeremy A) wanted to farm B) was farming material? Jeremy may have reasoned that the financial compensations would make farming bearable. It would only be as he got older that he'd have fully realized that farming isn't a 9 to 5, 5 days a week job. This was work that would tie him. This would be his life. But the financial reward remained a big, fat, juicy carrot. At some point it seems that Jeremy had a fantasy in which he could have the rewards and side step the work.
So was his dream -other than- perhaps for a very short time, to be a farmer? Was it to be a nuclear physicist? A train driver? OR was it always about having enough money to live a playboy lifestyle without ever having to work?
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I remember " laying it on thick " saying that JB couldn't work in convulsions. So not all supporters ;D
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So might that mean we're together in the belief that, had Jeremy felt he had a career choice, farming may not have got a look in?
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JB would have gone on to do other things and would probably have ended up living in London leaving a farming life behind. He wasn't cut out to be a farmer, well he wouldn't have got his hands dirty that's for sure. He might have held on to the farm as an overseer allowing someone else to run/manage it but I doubt he'd have been physically involved as opposed to the business side of things.
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JB would have gone on to do other things and would probably have ended up living in London leaving a farming life behind. He wasn't cut out to be a farmer, well he wouldn't have got his hands dirty that's for sure. He might have held on to the farm as an overseer allowing someone else to run/manage it but I doubt he'd have been physically involved as opposed to the business side of things.
Running "the business side of things" might have proved difficult without any business side of things qualifications, wouldn't you agree? The list of those required to keep the business on an even keel could have proved a drain. I have a feeling that Jeremy didn't look beyond the immediacy of having money to spend like water in the here and now.
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Running "the business side of things" might have proved difficult without any business side of things qualifications, wouldn't you agree? The list of those required to keep the business on an even keel could have proved a drain. I have a feeling that Jeremy didn't look beyond the immediacy of having money to spend like water in the here and now.
Wasn't his father teaching him the rudiments of farming as a business ? So because of his alleged love for/of money he'd have been rather swift in learning ?
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Wasn't his father teaching him the rudiments of farming as a business ? So because of his alleged love for/of money he'd have been rather swift in learning ?
From what I've been told, Jeremy didn't think he needed to learn. It's one of the things which caused problems between him and Nevill.
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From what I've been told, Jeremy didn't think he needed to learn. It's one of the things which caused problems between him and Nevill.
My guess is that it was probably the physical side of farming that didn't go down well, only the financial gains would have been of interest ?
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My guess is that it was probably the physical side of farming that didn't go down well, only the financial gains would have been of interest ?
I think that's right, but I'm not at all convinced he ever saw himself having to actually EARN money. I think it HAVING money was his prime interest, but he never worked at anything which would equip him make it. A little like a forerunner of those people now who want to be celebrities. It maybe what he sees himself as being?
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I think that's right, but I'm not at all convinced he ever saw himself having to actually EARN money. I think it HAVING money was his prime interest, but he never worked at anything which would equip him make it. A little like a forerunner of those people now who want to be celebrities. It maybe what he sees himself as being?
He should have followed his ex-girlfriend for tips on getting rich quick. It might have been only 5 minutes of fame-----but it worked. She was the savvy one it would have seemed.
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They'd have made a good modern day Bonnie and Clyde act.
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He should have followed his ex-girlfriend for tips on getting rich quick. It might have been only 5 minutes of fame-----but it worked. She was the savvy one it would have seemed.
Ah, but whilst hers may have started out at £25,000 -a mere trifle compared to his scoop- she's certainly had to work hard for what she now has, which does, indeed, suggest that she was the savvy one.
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They'd have made a good modern day Bonnie and Clyde act.
Thank God she saw the error of her ways.
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Thank God she saw the error of her ways.
Has she though ?
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Has she though ?
I feel certain, that just like you hope Sheila's diaries say something which will convict her, you pray for Julie to commit a gross enough misdemeanour for her to be extradited and bought back here for questioning, as opposed to coming here freely as she now does?
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I feel certain, that just like you hope Sheila's diaries say something which will convict her, you pray for Julie to commit a gross enough misdemeanour for her to be extradited and bought back here for questioning, as opposed to coming here freely as she now does?
That has nothing whatsoever to do with my thoughts at all. ;D
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That has nothing whatsoever to do with my thoughts at all. ;D
That's really good to know ;D
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We've all had dreams about what the future holds for us. How many of us have fulfilled those dreams? What, I wonder, were Jeremy's? Supporters have laid it on with a trowel how he loved the farming way of life and wanted nothing more than to follow Nevill. That part, at least when he was very small, as little boys tend to hero worship daddies, may have been true. I don't believe it lasted. So far, no one has actually worked out how much -how LITTLE- time Jeremy actually put into farming from the time he left full time education.
I can see him trailing round the farm with Nevill. I can hear Nevill inculcating him with an obligation to what the future held for him. Having a choice might have helped. Was there never any question in Nevill's mind about whether Jeremy A) wanted to farm B) was farming material? Jeremy may have reasoned that the financial compensations would make farming bearable. It would only be as he got older that he'd have fully realized that farming isn't a 9 to 5, 5 days a week job. This was work that would tie him. This would be his life. But the financial reward remained a big, fat, juicy carrot. At some point it seems that Jeremy had a fantasy in which he could have the rewards and side step the work.
So was his dream -other than- perhaps for a very short time, to be a farmer? Was it to be a nuclear physicist? A train driver? OR was it always about having enough money to live a playboy lifestyle without ever having to work?
He was a Walter Mitty character who knew what he didn't want more than what he wanted. He might have taken to deep sea diving in New Zealand but became bitter when he wasn't accepted on the course and this was just another reason to blame June for dropping him on the head as a baby. He felt his parents owed him (remember the remark to Julie: "they have forfeited their lives for how they have treated me".
Given that he had rejected Nevill as a role model and the relationship with June faltered when he started courting, then she was readmitted to St. Andrew's, he became influenced by the youth role models of the time (Adam Ant spring to mind), and the soft drugs culture which pervaded the London clubs of the 1980s. It's a tragic irony that neither parents listen to their son's needs: he might well have made a success of running a wine bar in a fashionable area of London, delegating the spade work to others as he approached middle age, or would the pretty birds have flown as the money petered out-who can tell?
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He was a Walter Mitty character who knew what he didn't want more than what he wanted. He might have taken to deep sea diving in New Zealand but became bitter when he wasn't accepted on the course and this was just another reason to blame June for dropping him on the head as a baby. He felt his parents owed him (remember the remark to Julie: "they have forfeited their lives for how they have treated me".
Given that he had rejected Nevill as a role model and the relationship with June faltered when he started courting, then she was readmitted to St. Andrew's, he became influenced by the youth role models of the time (Adam Ant spring to mind), and the soft drugs culture which pervaded the London clubs of the 1980s. It's a tragic irony that neither parents listen to their son's needs: he might well have made a success of running a wine bar in a fashionable area of London, delegating the spade work to others as he approached middle age, or would the pretty birds have flown as the money petered out-who can tell?
Walter Mitty is an apt description, Steve. However, in his defense, when all one's choice is so limited almost everything seems like a better alternative. We must remember that other than a good -Ok, expensive- but basic education, he had no qualifications. He had to rely on a plummy accent and Hugh Grant type charm to get by, hence, the unskilled work he gravitated to. It's very likely that the deep sea diving course would have failed, regardless, as self discipline seems not to have been something he benefited from having. The childhood injury may have been a convenient get out. And a stick to beat June with.
I think the Adam Ant era was probably Jeremy's Hey Day. It may have signified a personal freedom for him that he'd never previously experienced. I think that in hosting a wine bar -doing little but looking masculine/effete and glamourous- he may have found his niche, but he would probably have been better at spending money than ensuring that it didn't run out.
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Walter Mitty is an apt description, Steve. However, in his defense, when all one's choice is so limited almost everything seems like a better alternative. We must remember that other than a good -Ok, expensive- but basic education, he had no qualifications. He had to rely on a plummy accent and Hugh Grant type charm to get by, hence, the unskilled work he gravitated to. It's very likely that the deep sea diving course would have failed, regardless, as self discipline seems not to have been something he benefited from having. The childhood injury may have been a convenient get out. And a stick to beat June with.
I think the Adam Ant era was probably Jeremy's Hey Day. It may have signified a personal freedom for him that he'd never previously experienced. I think that in hosting a wine bar -doing little but looking masculine/effete and glamourous- he may have found his niche, but he would probably have been better at spending money than ensuring that it didn't run out.
You see the wine bar might have been his own idea, and had his parents put up the capital for it and he failed at least it would have been his failure. That might have been a turning point in his relationship with them ,instead of him perceiving that they had packed him off to school for eight years because they didn't really want him, they ordered him home at a certain time from Julie's Hall of Residence because they wanted to control his social life, similarly they engineered a split from Suzette because they deemed her unsuitable, the concomitant stress causing her the miscarriages.
People do get their own back, though most thankfully not to the extremes Jeremy went to. Sometimes it's daughters making excuses not to let their mothers see their grandchildren, it's sons moving away from their parents, making excuses not to see them at Christmas or other social occasions. What could Jeremy do in his situation: he wore make-up to work, he never put a shirt on at weekends at the Chequers, he refused to work the crop sprayer and he put rats in June's car. For most families the animosity would stop there.
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You see the wine bar might have been his own idea, and had his parents put up the capital for it and he failed at least it would have been his failure. That might have been a turning point in his relationship with them ,instead of him perceiving that they had packed him off to school for eight years because they didn't really want him, they ordered him home at a certain time from Julie's Hall of Residence because they wanted to control his social life, similarly they engineered a split from Suzette because they deemed her unsuitable, the concomitant stress causing her the miscarriages.
People do get their own back, though most thankfully not to the extremes Jeremy went to. Sometimes it's daughters making excuses not to let their mothers see their grandchildren, it's sons moving away from their parents, making excuses not to see them at Christmas or other social occasions. What could Jeremy do in his situation: he wore make-up to work, he never put a shirt on at weekends at the Chequers, he refused to work the crop sprayer and he put rats in June's car. For most families the animosity would stop there.
Steve, I wonder if it's less about people getting revenge, than about learned behaviours getting repeated? I'm inclined to think that parents who've inculcated their children with a sense of duty and obligation, using money as a carrot, are likely to find that their adult children on visit as a last resort, usually to tap them up for money.
A wine bar MAY have been a success, but he wasn't given the chance. He hadn't been adopted to run a wine bar.
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Steve, I wonder if it's less about people getting revenge, than about learned behaviours getting repeated? I'm inclined to think that parents who've inculcated their children with a sense of duty and obligation, using money as a carrot, are likely to find that their adult children on visit as a last resort, usually to tap them up for money.
A wine bar MAY have been a success, but he wasn't given the chance. He hadn't been adopted to run a wine bar.
If he wanted to run a wine bar, he could have worked his way up through doing bar work. Problems is, he wanted someone else to buy him a wine bar. I think the Bambers could have ran the farm without Jeremy, they didn't force him to hang around and the only reason he did, was because of the perks and the notion that it wouldn't be for long.
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He wouldn't have had to have waited very long anyway with Grannie Speakman being frail.
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If he wanted to run a wine bar, he could have worked his way up through doing bar work. Problems is, he wanted someone else to buy him a wine bar. I think the Bambers could have ran the farm without Jeremy, they didn't force him to hang around and the only reason he did, was because of the perks and the notion that it wouldn't be for long.
I think that's a bit unfair Caroline. Sheila had the Maida Vale flat and the offer of an antiques shop. Jeremy could have been offered a wine bar of his own to manage.
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He wouldn't have had to have waited very long anyway with Grannie Speakman being frail.
Who left her cash to June and Pam - how would that help him?
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I think that's a bit unfair Caroline. Sheila had the Maida Vale flat and the offer of an antiques shop. Jeremy could have been offered a wine bar of his own to manage.
Offer of and Antique Shop? Since when?
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Offer of and Antique Shop? Since when?
Well it was mooted by June I think just after Sheila came out of St. Andrew's the second time. Of course she was far too sick to manage a business like that day-to-day. I'm only giving Jeremy a modicum of sympathy in the very early days when he was working at Sloppy Joes and I'm guessing with no malice aforethought at that stage. Of course as things stand now I take Colin's wish on board that he should never be released.
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Well it was mooted by June I think just after Sheila came out of St. Andrew's the second time. Of course she was far too sick to manage a business like that day-to-day. I'm only giving Jeremy a modicum of sympathy in the very early days when he was working at Sloppy Joes and I'm guessing with no malice aforethought at that stage. Of course as things stand now I take Colin's wish on board that he should never be released.
No, I mean where did you read it?
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No, I mean where did you read it?
I think it's contained within Ann Eaton's 60-odd page statement. I'll have another look if I can lay my hands on it.
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Who left her cash to June and Pam - how would that help him?
From June's share-----there'd been nothing stopping her from doing what she'd wished with her share.
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From June's share-----there'd been nothing stopping her from doing what she'd wished with her share.
From June's share? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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From June's share-----there'd been nothing stopping her from doing what she'd wished with her share.
June would have to die for him to get June's share.......
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June would have to die for him to get June's share.......
;D ;D
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Naturally. ::) Go to the top of the class.
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Naturally. ::) Go to the top of the class.
So why wouldn't he need to wait long to get his share of June's money? June wasn't poorly or even that old. Just trying to understand your claim.
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Naturally. ::) Go to the top of the class.
So HOW would Jeremy benefit from his gran dying?
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So HOW would Jeremy benefit from his gran dying?
Via June's share if he hadn't gone to prison.
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Via June's share if he hadn't gone to prison.
Makes no sense. Because you're saying Jeremy didn't need to kill - because he didn't have to wait long for money because of granny's money..... He wouldn't KNOW at the time that June was going to die. :o
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Makes no sense. Because you're saying Jeremy didn't need to kill - because he didn't have to wait long for money because of granny's money..... He wouldn't KNOW at the time that June was going to die. :o
In my book he had NO idea that June was going to die !! Sheila did though.
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In my book he had NO idea that June was going to die !! Sheila did though.
Then how could he know that he was going to inherit Grannys money THROUGH JUNE?
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In my book he had NO idea that June was going to die !! Sheila did though.
It's make your mind up time, or are you deliberately 'mixing and matching'? If Sheila was suddenly overtaken by psychosis, how would she have had any previous idea that June was going to die. Are you now saying she'd been planning the murders for a long time?
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It's make your mind up time, or are you deliberately 'mixing and matching'? If Sheila was suddenly overtaken by psychosis, how would she have had any previous idea that June was going to die. Are you now saying she'd been planning the murders for a long time?
More than likely----using Colin's words------"she's finally done it" Even Ferguson knew there was friction between mother and daughter probably since Sheila's fist admission to the clinic.
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More than likely----using Colin's words------"she's finally done it" Even Ferguson knew there was friction between mother and daughter probably since Sheila's fist admission to the clinic.
I think Sheila had frequently played the suicide card, against Colin, as a weapon, either as revenge or to get heard. Hence his words.
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More than likely----using Colin's words------"she's finally done it" Even Ferguson knew there was friction between mother and daughter probably since Sheila's fist admission to the clinic.
Wasn't that about her comitting suicide? Not killing the others? You're very deceitful with how you pick and choose the way you use certain quotes.
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I think Sheila had frequently played the suicide card, against Colin, as a weapon, either as revenge or to get heard. Hence his words.
And don't you think that's cruel ?
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In my book he had NO idea that June was going to die !! Sheila did though.
So if June wasn't on his hit list - HOW was he going to benefit from HER inheritance from her mother?
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So if June wasn't on his hit list - HOW was he going to benefit from HER inheritance from her mother?
I'm so glad you also see the point, Caroline. I was starting to think it was me.. ;D
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It's make your mind up time, or are you deliberately 'mixing and matching'? If Sheila was suddenly overtaken by psychosis, how would she have had any previous idea that June was going to die. Are you now saying she'd been planning the murders for a long time?
We seems to find ourselves here quite often ;D ;D ;D ;D
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It wasn't HIS hitlist to start with.
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It wasn't HIS hitlist to start with.
Well, never mind that - how was he going to benefit from June's inheritance? You made the claim, so you must know why?
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And don't you think that's cruel ?
FFS, can the girl do NOTHING right in your eyes? She certainly wouldn't have been the first to use it. In a perfect world -the one in which you appear to reside as queen- such would not be necessary, but MAYBE it was the only way to get his attention.....................and you've certainly changed your tune from all those times you've slagged off Colin by saying what a dreadful husband he was and how he should have stayed with her and looked after her. NOW you're suggesting Sheila was cruel to him ::) ::)
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I'm so glad you also see the point, Caroline. I was starting to think it was me.. ;D
Nope, defo not you ;D ;D
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FFS, can the girl do NOTHING right in your eyes? She certainly wouldn't have been the first to use it. In a perfect world -the one in which you appear to reside as queen- such would not be necessary, but MAYBE it was the only way to get his attention.....................and you've certainly changed your tune from all those times you've slagged off Colin by saying what a dreadful husband he was and how he should have stayed with her and looked after her. NOW you're suggesting Sheila was cruel to him ::) ::)
Colin WASN'T the ideal husband so far as the " in sickness and health " vow, but neither is it the done thing to threaten suicide either. Happy now ? Or is it just your pedantic self ?
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Colin WASN'T the ideal husband so far as the " in sickness and health " vow, but neither is it the done thing to threaten suicide either. Happy now ? Or is it just your pedantic self ?
Well, as you appear determined to be judgemental, on a scale of 1-10, just how good a wife to him would you have deemed Sheila to have been?
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Well, as you appear determined to be judgemental, on a scale of 1-10, just how good a wife to him would you have deemed Sheila to have been?
Well she couldn't boil an egg could she for starters ? Liked her partying too much as well.
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Well she couldn't boil an egg could she for starters ? Liked her partying too much as well.
So perhaps we can't entirely blame Colin for walking away?
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So perhaps we can't entirely blame Colin for walking away?
He didn't exactly last the course did he, or give it a chance for the sake of the twins ? Or show more patience with Sheila by seeking help through her GP if it was someone you loved.
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He didn't exactly last the course did he, or give it a chance for the sake of the twins ? Or show more patience with Sheila by seeking help through her GP if it was someone you loved.
He'd had enough like thousands of other couples - they got divorced.
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He didn't exactly last the course did he, or give it a chance for the sake of the twins ? Or show more patience with Sheila by seeking help through her GP if it was someone you loved.
Do we know how many times he tried? How do we know when enough is enough? How do we know he didn't try to speak to her doctor? How do we know that the doctors would discuss her with anyone other than the Bambers? We do know he wanted her to have a different sort of therapy but the Bambers wouldn't have it. I imagine he was able to be as better and more stable parent to the twins when they were all away from Sheila.
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He'd had enough like thousands of other couples - they got divorced.
After 3 years they didn't give it chance !
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After 3 years they didn't give it chance !
They'd been together for much longer than 3 years.
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They'd been together for much longer than 3 years.
Married ?
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Married ?
Living together, certainly. Married? She was pregnant when they married, suffered a late miscarriage. Went to Japan, came home, was pregnant again, miscarried. got pregnant with the twins, spent most of the pregnancy in hospital.
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Something caught my eye just half an hour ago while going through old posts. One " recognised " poster had said that Colin had walked out on Sheila and the twins when they were about 4/5 months old then never visited them for a year or so. Hard hearted was the poster's description.
What are your thoughts on this and what damage would you have envisaged to Sheila and the twins ?
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Something caught my eye just half an hour ago while going through old posts. One " recognised " poster had said that Colin had walked out on Sheila and the twins when they were about 4/5 months old then never visited them for a year or so. Hard hearted was the poster's description.
What are your thoughts on this and what damage would you have envisaged to Sheila and the twins ?
Surely, before we leap into "Hard-hearted" and envisaged damage territory, this 'fact' requires verification? Hasn't enough damage been inflicted on the family and it's wider members by attaching 'facts' to them that aren't true? However,if we look at what IS known, Colin appears to have been an excellent and caring father who provided his boys with security and creativity. It's possible, that by the time they were 6, both boys knew that Mummy was often poorly and felt responsible for her well being. NOT a good and healthy place for any child to be.
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Surely, before we leap into "Hard-hearted" and envisaged damage territory, this 'fact' requires verification? Hasn't enough damage been inflicted on the family and it's wider members by attaching 'facts' to them that aren't true? However,if we look at what IS known, Colin appears to have been an excellent and caring father who provided his boys with security and creativity. It's possible, that by the time they were 6, both boys knew that Mummy was often poorly and felt responsible for her well being. NOT a good and healthy place for any child to be.
I trust the poster and also found your post " interesting " at the time not knowing whether to laugh or cry .
However my argument is that had everyone,including families,downed tools for just an hour or two a week to visit and support Sheila this tragedy wouldn't have happened. It's shameful. Forget about money and fripperies, a visit from any member of the family should have been encouraged----an offer to take the twins off her hands now and again would have told Sheila that there were people who cared. It would have made a huge difference. Nobody damn well cared-------until nobody was left !!
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I trust the poster and also found your post " interesting " at the time not knowing whether to laugh or cry .
However my argument is that had everyone,including families,downed tools for just an hour or two a week to visit and support Sheila this tragedy wouldn't have happened. It's shameful. Forget about money and fripperies, a visit from any member of the family should have been encouraged----an offer to take the twins off her hands now and again would have told Sheila that there were people who cared. It would have made a huge difference. Nobody damn well cared-------until nobody was left !!
Lookout, the key phrase, of ALL who inhabit a world of only black or white, is SHOULD (N'T) HAVE. It usually relates to things past and the past can't be changed in the present. However, for the purposes of answering your post, I'll join this world..................
You speak of what the family "should have" done for Sheila, but you're overlooking that it was Sheila's choice to live in London. Who, of the family, other than June and Nevill, are you suggesting "should have" offered their help, given that they were aware of her circumstances, anyway? There was Pam, as busy a farmer's wife, with her own family, as was June. There was Ann, a cousin, never close to Sheila, with a young family of her own. There was? Granny Speakman! WHO, of these women, in your opinion, "SHOULD HAVE" made more of an effort, regarding Sheila? Do you realize how silly a statement is "they should have downed tools for an hour or two a week to support her"? Have you ANY idea how long it would have taken for them to get from their rural homes in Essex to Sheila's home in London? "An hour or two" would have just about got them there if they hadn't traveled in rush hour. Sheila, allegedly, had friends. We know there were day carers for the boys. We know her mother-in-law helped her. If Sheila was finding it so difficult to cope, maybe it's she who "should have" as in moved closer to where you believe other help "should have" been forthcoming. Did she not have some responsibility in all this?
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Lookout, the key phrase, of ALL who inhabit a world of only black or white, is SHOULD (N'T) HAVE. It usually relates to things past and the past can't be changed in the present. However, for the purposes of answering your post, I'll join this world..................
You speak of what the family "should have" done for Sheila, but you're overlooking that it was Sheila's choice to live in London. Who, of the family, other than June and Nevill, are you suggesting "should have" offered their help, given that they were aware of her circumstances, anyway? There was Pam, as busy a farmer's wife, with her own family, as was June. There was Ann, a cousin, never close to Sheila, with a young family of her own. There was? Granny Speakman! WHO, of these women, in your opinion, "SHOULD HAVE" made more of an effort, regarding Sheila? Do you realize how silly a statement is "they should have downed tools for an hour or two a week to support her"? Have you ANY idea how long it would have taken for them to get from their rural homes in Essex to Sheila's home in London? "An hour or two" would have just about got them there if they hadn't traveled in rush hour. Sheila, allegedly, had friends. We know there were day carers for the boys. We know her mother-in-law helped her. If Sheila was finding it so difficult to cope, maybe it's she who "should have" as in moved closer to where you believe other help "should have" been forthcoming. Did she not have some responsibility in all this?
I don't think my statement is "silly" at all. There are times in life where you HAVE to make time for your family ( if you possess a conscience,that is ) to keep abreast of things and to also be prepared if/when things do go wrong. Pam knew how things stood with Sheila but it would have seemed that it never got passed on, or if it did, it was ignored. Like the letter that Sheila wrote to AE from her hospital bed. AE wasn't very accommodating anyway by all accounts when on a rare visit to her place AE moaned about the crumbs or something that the twins left on a chair. Some welcome, eh ?
Okay, so Sheila moved away to be as far from her mother as possible-----no other reason. If she'd had a more understanding mother she'd never have moved very far away. Her moving wasn't done to isolate herself or anyone else from visiting. It may well have been Sheila's preference to live in London but the right persuasion would have kept her near WHF and she could still have gone to the " London scene " on occasion. Because she didn't have an understanding mother she was more or less given no other choice but to live where she did.
I'd have had them all living with me until such times they'd saved enough for a deposit then the choice would be left to them rather than to be forced out of a situation like both siblings had been.
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I trust the poster and also found your post " interesting " at the time not knowing whether to laugh or cry .
However my argument is that had everyone,including families,downed tools for just an hour or two a week to visit and support Sheila this tragedy wouldn't have happened. It's shameful. Forget about money and fripperies, a visit from any member of the family should have been encouraged----an offer to take the twins off her hands now and again would have told Sheila that there were people who cared. It would have made a huge difference. Nobody damn well cared-------until nobody was left !!
You taling about this?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2787.msg95387.html#msg95387
You trust the poster? I thnk you would trust anyone who believes Bamber innocent but the post comment isn't even sourced and it's clear thee poster isn't sure about the comment.
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I don't think my statement is "silly" at all. There are times in life where you HAVE to make time for your family ( if you possess a conscience,that is ) to keep abreast of things and to also be prepared if/when things do go wrong. Pam knew how things stood with Sheila but it would have seemed that it never got passed on, or if it did, it was ignored. Like the letter that Sheila wrote to AE from her hospital bed. AE wasn't very accommodating anyway by all accounts when on a rare visit to her place AE moaned about the crumbs or something that the twins left on a chair. Some welcome, eh ?
Okay, so Sheila moved away to be as far from her mother as possible-----no other reason. If she'd had a more understanding mother she'd never have moved very far away. Her moving wasn't done to isolate herself or anyone else from visiting. It may well have been Sheila's preference to live in London but the right persuasion would have kept her near WHF and she could still have gone to the " London scene " on occasion. Because she didn't have an understanding mother she was more or less given no other choice but to live where she did.
I'd have had them all living with me until such times they'd saved enough for a deposit then the choice would be left to them rather than to be forced out of a situation like both siblings had been.
Again, your opinion on people you have never met!
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I did NOT say that he worked at WHF !! I said he knew/knows the families. Mistakes like that about what I allegedy said are the root cause of problems on here. I wish people would read my posts properly !!
Ask him, he'll know !
HE SAID he worked at WHF and didn't! I didn't YOU said it - I wish people would read my posts properly!!
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I don't think my statement is "silly" at all. There are times in life where you HAVE to make time for your family ( if you possess a conscience,that is ) to keep abreast of things and to also be prepared if/when things do go wrong. Pam knew how things stood with Sheila but it would have seemed that it never got passed on, or if it did, it was ignored. Like the letter that Sheila wrote to AE from her hospital bed. AE wasn't very accommodating anyway by all accounts when on a rare visit to her place AE moaned about the crumbs or something that the twins left on a chair. Some welcome, eh ?
Okay, so Sheila moved away to be as far from her mother as possible-----no other reason. If she'd had a more understanding mother she'd never have moved very far away. Her moving wasn't done to isolate herself or anyone else from visiting. It may well have been Sheila's preference to live in London but the right persuasion would have kept her near WHF and she could still have gone to the " London scene " on occasion. Because she didn't have an understanding mother she was more or less given no other choice but to live where she did.
I'd have had them all living with me until such times they'd saved enough for a deposit then the choice would be left to them rather than to be forced out of a situation like both siblings had been.
When will you realize that nothing JUST happens, and nothing happens for nothing. The Bamber/Boutflour family dynamic was years in the making. They kind of involvement YOU see as help, may well been seen by others as interference.