Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Nigel on April 14, 2018, 10:22:PM
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"Neville Bamber who was the Chairman of the Witham Magistrates Bench, would never have allowed Anthony Pargeter to take the weapons, accessories, or ammunitions away from the scene, where they were licensed to be kept, under any circumstances..."
MIKE TESKO
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/contents
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In the witness statement Anthony Pargeter made to Essex Police shortly after the tragedy, hereiterated that he owned a .22 Bruno rifle, Parker Hale Ilencer, and ammunition to fire from it, and that he kept 'it' at whf. He stated that it was a practice of his, to always remove the bolt from it when going back home to Buckinghamshire, so that no-one could fire 'it' in his absence! Well, when I spoke to Jeremy about this he told me that Anthony wouldn't have been allowed to take the bolt to his rifle home with him because it was a component part of the rifle he was licensed to use and keep at whf. Jeremy was adamant that his father wouldn't have let Anthony break the law by doing that.
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As Chairman of the Witham Magistrates Bench, and the glowing statement by his bookkeeper about him (on video)....
I would put my life on it you are correct Mike.
Neville was clearly an upstanding pillar of society.
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Mike,
What were the gun type the RAID team used?
They weren't similar to the Wolf (PARGETOR'S ) and/OR .22 (NEVILLE'S)? where they?
If they were..
Is there a possibility the Police took Anthony PARGETOR'S rifle by mistake, thinking it was theirs?
thanks
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After the COLP Enquiry seized his Bruno rifle, and Parker Hale silencer for testing in 1991, he made a fresh witness statement claiming that his rifle wasn't present at the scene at the time of the tragedy, because he had taken it home to Buckinghamshire on the penultimate week-end prior to the tragedy! Jeremy says he has lied because his Bruno rifle was inside the farmhouse at the time of the tragedy! Jeremy says he even included it in the list of firearms that the police wanted to know was present inside the farmhouse before they went in!
Jeremy says that to the best of his recollection, Anthony Pargeters .22 rifle and silencer was present in the downstairs toilet on the evening before the tragedy! It seems remarkable that Pargeter has given two different and conflicting accounts regarding the whereabouts of his .22 rifle , for example, in 1975 he said it was kept at the farmhouse, but that he always removed the bolt and took that away with him so that no-one could fire his .22 gun in his absence! Whereas, in 1991 he says that he took his rifle home with him shortly before the tragedy!
Either way he was in breach of the terms of his firearms certificate, and Jeremy says that Neville Bamber wouldn't have allowed Anthony to remove the bolt from his rifle and take that away from the farm because in so doing he would be committing a criminal offence, and Neville Bamber would be implicated for allowing him to do that! Jeremy is adamant that Neville would not have let Anthony take his rifle away in the terms he described to the COLP investigators in 1991...
I believe that Anthony Pargeters rifle was there at the scene, along with Jeremy's view on the matter...
I believe this because of the list that Jeremy provided for the police which included mention of 'it', and after the police entered the farmhouse, and all the dust settled so to speak, the police would have checked for all the firearms on the list that Jeremy had given them, and if Anthony Pargeters .22 rifle was missing from the scene, I should think he would have been spa suspect when the nature of the investigation altered a month afterwards. It seems a bit of a coincidence, if he did take his .22 rifle home, that he has been keeping it at whf since he first purchased it in 1980, and then just before the shooting tragedy he removes it from the scene!
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Hold on a minute!
Please excuse me I'm not the 'sharpest tool in the box'!
I thought you said
"In the witness statement Anthony Pargeter made to Essex Police shortly after the tragedy, hereiterated that he owned a .22 Bruno rifle, Parker Hale Ilencer, and ammunition to fire from it, and that he kept 'it' at whf."
or was that just me misreading it...
...is there something to add
ie..."but I took the rifle 2 weeks before"
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Mike,
What were the gun type the RAID team used?
They weren't similar to the Wolf (PARGETOR'S ) and/OR .22 (NEVILLE'S)? where they?
If they were..
Is there a possibility the Police took Anthony PARGETOR'S rifle by mistake, thinking it was theirs?
thanks
The police had an array of weapons at their disposal at the time of the seige at whf, the only one identifiable in the witness statements is a mini Ruger! But they must have had other weapons at their disposal even quite possibly a .22 rifle. I know that attempts made by Jeremy to get the police records from the force armoury were being thwarted in 1989 /1990 when I was a serving prisoner alongside him at HMP Full Sutton, near York. We were trying to find out if any ammunitions had been used at the scene, for example, if there was a shortfall in the quantity returned at the end of the shift, as opposed to the quantity issued beforehand!
I think that the rifle in the crime scene photograph taken in the kitchen which police were warned not to mention anything about was the Pargeter rifle! It's got to have been his gun and sound moderator! Stan Jones returned to the scene at around 11.15am, and amongst other things he took possession of the all important Parker Hale Sound Moderator (SBJ/1)! At the same time he took a photograph of the downstairs toilet where the Anthony Pargeter rifle and silencer were normally kept - police records show that for some inexplicable reason that particular photograph was 'destroyed', without any reason given for doing so! I think that Stan Jones may have taken away Anthony Pargeters .22 rifle and silencer from the scene on that occasion, for example, the rifle with its silencer attached, and that together he referred to them as exhibit 'SBJ/1'.
I am now all the more convinced that Sheila got shot across the neck by use of Pargeters gun - we are talking about the non fatal shot, exhibit PV/20, 'a piece of badly fragmented bullet' that the pathologist recover from Sheila's neck during autopsy performed on 7th August 1985. As you may well already know, by the time the bullets reached the ballistic expert at the Lab' on the 20th September 1985, somebody had replaced the original piece of badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) with a test fired WHOLE one! Seems to me, they did that so that they could treat the shootings as a One gun crime..
Picture the following scenario...
The anshuzt rifle was used to dispatch June and the child victims, with Neville not present in the farmhouse!
The anshuzt rifle was used to dispatch Neville..
The Bruno rifle fired the shot across Sheila's neck (the original PV/20) whilst she was present downstairs in the kitchen..
The anshuzt rifle fired the bullet which ultimately ended Sheila's life upstairs on the main bedroom floor!
The Bruno rifle and silencer was the gun captured in the police crime scene photograph taken in the kitchen, that officers were told not to make any mention of? Stan Jones returns to the scene shortly after having already left it once and he collects the Bruno rifle and its silencer (Anthony Pargeters), and he takes them away, with no reference at all to the scenes of crime officers (2nd SOCO team) in charge of the crime scene at that time! He takes it away because he knew 'it' had been used in the original shooting of Sheila downstairs in the kitchen, as per the timed police radio messages, 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, and 7.45am! Sheila's was the dead female body in the kitchen at these specific times! Her death was being spoken of in terms of a suicide by 7.45am..
The fact that she must have regained consciousness and somehow found her way upstairs to her parents bedroom, and collapsed on top of her parents bed, then subsequently been moved to the floor and shot during a gauging exercise as part of the 'informatives' adopted by senior officers, was undertaken I should think to see whether or not they could make it look like she had been shot once in the neck by the anshuzt rifle, and not the other rifle downstairs in the kitchen! You see the police had a bit of a problem up until the 2nd shot got fired (the 1st shot from the anshuzt rifle), how were they going to explain that Sheila had committed suicide downstairs in the kitchen (7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, and 7.45am), when her body was now upstairs in the main bedroom?
That, was the dilemma the senior officers had...
That was why they brought the anshuzt rifle from the box room window and put it to Sheila's body! They didn't intend to do anything mischievously at the time they set about doing this, it was just a gauging exercise, as part of the 'informatives' that they were entitled to be doing (apparently)! I should think that when they put the anshuzt rifle to Sheila's body they were simply trying to see, if the gun fitted the circumstance! But, they were confronted with another problem! They knew that the shot into Sheila's neck had been inflicted with a silencer attached to the Bruno rifles barrel. The lengths of the two rifles were different, and to the dismay of senior officers, when they unscrewed the silencer from the Bruno rifles barrel, and screwed I onto the barrel of the anshuzt rifle, the damned length of it was a lot longer and they couldn't get the muzzle of the silencer that was by then fitted to the barrel of the anshuzt rifle in position against the abrasion mark of the silencers end cap around the wound on Sheila's neck, and at the same time get her fingers on the trigger mechanism! So, they took the rifle back off her body, unscrewed the silencer and tried putting the anshuzt rifle (minus the silencer) back to Sheila's body, starting with the position of Sheila's finger on the trigger this time, and adjusting the barrel end of the anshuzt rifle into the region of the neck were the bullet entry wound was! Unfortunately, they couldn't get the rifle to fit the circumstances even without the silencer being on the gun! It was whilst they were stretching Sheila's arm and her right hand upon the trigger mechanism with the muzzle end of the anshuzt rifle barrel as low down as possible on her neck (which was markedly higher up on the throat compared to where the the bullet entry wound was, that the rifle discharged a live round which penetrated Sheila's mouth from beneath the chin and lodged in her brain!
This was exactly how Sheila Caffell died on the main bedroom floor - she was shot by two different guns, the cops faked the PV/20 bullet in connection with the first shot by using a test fired round that was subsequently fired via the anshuzt rifle, disposing not the original piece of badly fragmented bullet, so that by 20th September 1985, they could go with the tragedy being a one gun crime, the weapon used being the family owned Anshuzt rifle! They did away with the Pargeter rifle, which probably only fired one of the 25 bullets used in the shootings!
The absolute truth is that the shooting of Sheila Caffell involved two different .22 rifles, the Bruno bolt action one, and the semi-automatic anshuzt rifle!
The use of one gun downstairs in the kitchen, makes complete sense out of the timed police radio message logs (7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, and 7.45am), plus the fact that by 8.10am there were only three bodies upstairs - Sheila's body ended up there in the main bedroom at some point after 8.10am..
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Hold on a minute!
Please excuse me I'm not the 'sharpest tool in the box'!
I thought you said
"In the witness statement Anthony Pargeter made to Essex Police shortly after the tragedy, hereiterated that he owned a .22 Bruno rifle, Parker Hale Ilencer, and ammunition to fire from it, and that he kept 'it' at whf."
or was that just me misreading it...
...is there something to add
ie..."but I took the rifle 2 weeks before"
Anthony Pargeter made a witness statement to Essex police in 1985 (pre -trial) in which he says that he owns the Bruno bolt action rifle, and a Parker Hale, Silencer, and ammunition, which he keeps at whf in the downstairs toilet! He adds that he does, however, always remove the bolt from his gun which he takes home when he leaves, so that no-one can fire his gun in his absence!
Six years later, or thereabouts, long after Jeremy has already been convicted and sentenced, he makes another witness statement to the COLP Enquiry Team who are investigation complaints made by Jeremy about Essex police's handling of his prosecution, and because in 1990 I wrote to the Home Secretary, David Waddington, expounding my belief that Anthony Pargeters gun could have been involved in the shooting of the victims, and that he owned Neville Bamber £50,000 at the time of the tragedy! Anyway, when Anthony Pargeter made the new witness statement, he told COLP that he had taken his Bruno rifle home with him to Bournend in Buckinghamshire, and that he did this in the penultimate week-end before the shootings..
Either way, he's lying, I am now convinced it was his rifle in that crime scene photograph that cops took in the kitchen, and I am as certain as I can be that his silencer came into contact with Sheila's neck at the time she got shot when cops forced their way into the kitchen, and she got shot (PV/20) by a bullet that was fired by the Pargeter rifle - that's why they tampered with the original PV/20 which was a piece of badly fragmented bullet, replacing it with a test fired round which had been fired later via the anshuzt rifle! This manoeuvre enabled the cops to present the tragedy as a one gun crime, when in fact two different guns had been used!
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There are other details which are now starting to make more and more sense to me now - bare with me...
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There are other details which are now starting to make more and more sense to me now - bare with me...
This substitution of the original (PV/20) piece of badly fragmented bullet removed from Sheila's neck during autopsy (7th August 1985) by Peter Venezis, got swapped for a test fired control round fired via the anshuzt rifle, after 30th August 1985, when the batch of crime scene ammunition (bullets and spent cartridge cases), and 29 control rounds collected up from the kitchen worktop got sent to the Lab' at Huntingdon for the attention of the prosecutions expert, Malcolm Fletcher!
Now..
These 29 control rounds of Eley .22 subsonic hollow point ammunition, was the same type of bullets used in the shootings...
I discovered a long time ago, 2003 / 2004, that 2 of these 29 control rounds vanished off the face of the earth1 This is interesting because we know that according to Fletcher, he supposedly test fired the anshuzt rifle with this batch of control ammunition, at the lab' on the 20th and 25th September 1985, and on the 1st October 1985. It became apparent during the COLP enquiry, that only 27 of the 29 control rounds were accounted for in these tests...
A deeper look into the Lab' documentation involving the batch of crime scene ammunition, reveals startling information documenting for the fact that on the 12th, 13th, 18th and 19th September 1985, that Fletcher conducted a series of comparison tests, where he tried to match markings and striations between crime scene ammunition and test fired control ammunition which must have already been test fired via the anshuzt rifle prior to the 20th September 1985...
Digging deeper, and by reference to Fletchers Lab' working notes, it becomes clear that he test fired the anshuzt rifle with control ammunition, when the Sound Moderator was fitted to the rifles barrel, and without the Sound Moderator attached...
Hence...
The 2 pieces of missing control ammunition must be linked to the control round used in the substitution process of the original PV/20, one of these rounds fired via the rifle with Sound Moderator, the other minus the Sound Moderator! Furthermore, these were the only two rounds that could havee been fired prior to the 20th September 1985, because the other 27 controlo rounds wwere all test fired after the 20th September 1985...
So, we now know where the substituted WHOLE test fired bullet that was used in the substitution process of the original PV/20 came from, and more importantly roughly the time date wise when that substitution could have taken place - on or after 30th Auhust 1985, until on or prior to the 12th September 1985...
Exhibit PV/20, therefore, now becomes the holy grail evidence capable of smashing this case wide open...
Question marks hang over those involved in this substitution process!
There can be absolutely no doubt whatsoever, that the prosecutions ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher was in on this dastardly buisiness...
But, who else?
Peter Venezis?Afterall, it was his original exhibit (PV/20) that he took from Sheila caffells neck during autopsy on the afternoon of the 7th August 1985. Was Venezis party to this skullduggery?
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It was for the benefit and purpose of substituting the original piece of badly fragmented bullet which was PV/20 for a WHOLE test fired round, which enabled Fletcher to conclude that the two bullets recovered from Sheila Caffells body (PV/19 and PV/20) had both been loaded into the anshuzt rifle and fired from it, thereby turning the case into a one gun crime, when in the circumstances of Sheila Caffells death, there had definitely been two different guns used to shoot her...
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Mike please can you TL;DR. (time stamp)
thanks
Nige
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It was for the benefit and purpose of substituting the original piece of badly fragmented bullet which was PV/20 for a WHOLE test fired round, which enabled Fletcher to conclude that the two bullets recovered from Sheila Caffells body (PV/19 and PV/20) had both been loaded into the anshuzt rifle and fired from it, thereby turning the case into a one gun crime, when in the circumstances of Sheila Caffells death, there had definitely been two different guns used to shoot her...
Fletcher made out that he did not conduct any test firing of the anshuzt rifle with control rounds until the 20th September 1985, and afterwards, in what became known as 'THE OFFICIAL TEST FIRING OF THE RIFLE WITH CONTROL AMMUNITION FOR COMPARISON PURPOSES', when all along he had already performed 'AN UNOFFICIAL TEST FIRING OF THE RIFLE WITH 2 PIECES OF CONTROL AMMUNITION, FOR THE BENEFIT OF SWAPPING A CRIME SCENE BULLET OVER, FOR THE PURPOSE OF FALSELY TURNING THE INVESTIGATION INTO A ONE GUN CRIME'...
There exist a catelog of documentation to support exactly what Fletcher got up to, in order for him to present such a dishonest appraisal of the crime scene ammunition!
It goes a lot deeper, because when the original piece of badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) was taken from Sheila's neck, it was placed into a sealed exhibit bag, that was signed by Peter Venezis, the pathologist...
Somebody tampered with the original exhibit bag, by removing the piece of badly fragmented bullet, and in its place putting the recently test fired WHOLE round, thereby making Fletchers job, and Essex Police explanation a lot easier...
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Is this the 'Holy Grail'?
because we need to move on to the Michael Stone case, and JEREMY is still in HELL HOLE.
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Just sit back and imagine the explaining that Essex police would have to do, if it became known by all and sundry that Sheila had been shot by two different guns?
The police tried to ride the storm by taking the case through the Coroners court system, during the first month, claiming that what they had been dealing with was a case of four murders and a suicide. They hadn't even bothered to do any ballistics testing by that stage and would not do so until 12th September 1985, onward. Somebody tampered with the batch of crime scene ammunition involving the original PV/20, because they knew that it had been fired by another gun, not the anshuzt rifle...
An Investigating officer, and senior officers, who were involved and engaged in the 'informatives' around and upon Sheila Caffells body, and the firearms officers who entered the kitchen reporting the presence of two dead bodies by 7.35am, one dead male, one dead female, a murder, and a suicide, have all lied through the skin of their teeth, choosing to remain silent about the involvement of the second rifle in the shooting of Sheila Caffell downstairs in the kitchen! They concealed the presence of the second rifle even though it was captured in one of the crime scene photographs...
And then there are the witness statements made by all the firearm officers who entered the farmhouse, all of them falsely claiming that there was only Neville Bambers body downstairs in the kitchen...
It gets worse, because the lot of them all flasely claiming that theey found Sheila Caffell already dead, shot twice, in possession of the anshuzt rifle, on her parents bedroom floor - when all along she wasn't and she hadn't been...
Even PS Bews, PC Myall and PS Saxby, they all knew and they all know the truth, Sheila was called as being dead downstairs in the kitchen at precisely 7.35am, All the senior officers who were gathered at the forward control point in a nearby outbuilding, Harris, Gibbons, Montgomery, Clark, and PS Adams, they all knew, and know the truth! Yet still police officers back in the control room who were eavesdropping the events as they were unfolding in real time when the firearm officers entered the kitchen, two bodies, not one, a dead male, and a dead female, a murder, and a suicide (7.35am - 7.45am)...
They all knew, and they all know...
At 8.10am, only three bodies present upstairs, 5 dead in total, no officer casualties...
Hariis, Gibbons, and Montgomery, make their way to the farmhouse and enter through the very same courtyard door that the raid team had ented about 45 minutes earlier...
As soon as they get into the kitchen...
PROBLEM..
A BIG PROBLEM..
A CATASTROPHIC PROBLEM...
Harris uses the kitchen phone to speak directly to ACC Peter Simpson to update him regarding the HUGE PROBLEM they had now got on their hands...
The dead female, Sheila, had gone missing from the kitchen, she could be wandering anywhere around the farmhouse, potentially in possession of any number of guns at her disposal, and there they were, TRAPPED in the kitchen, UNARMED, TERRIFIED...
They never did release the topic of conversation during that horrendous 15 minute period that Harris and Simpson chin wagged, but by 8.30am, the tension was relieved when Sheila was discovered collapsed on the top of her parents bed...
It's all true, every last word of it...
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Hold on a minute!
Please excuse me I'm not the 'sharpest tool in the box'!
I thought you said
"In the witness statement Anthony Pargeter made to Essex Police shortly after the tragedy, hereiterated that he owned a .22 Bruno rifle, Parker Hale Ilencer, and ammunition to fire from it, and that he kept 'it' at whf."
or was that just me misreading it...
...is there something to add
ie..."but I took the rifle 2 weeks before"
Yes there are some worrying discrepancies in AP evidence. This area gets little attention and is often overlooked.
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Yes there are some worrying discrepancies in AP evidence. This area gets little attention and is often overlooked.
Well lets have a look it then, in minutia detail..
""In the witness statement Anthony Pargeter made to Essex Police shortly after the tragedy, here iterated that he owned a .22 Bruno rifle, Parker Hale Ilencer, and ammunition to fire from it, and that he kept 'it' at whf.""
can you add to this?
.over to you to start David...
thanks
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Is this the 'Holy Grail'?
because we need to move on to the Michael Stone case, and JEREMY is still in HELL HOLE.
I have a plan to help get the confession evidence nullified...
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I have a plan to help get the confession evidence nullified...
The Holy Trinity bless you Mike.
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May the Holy Trinity bless you Mike.
Which prison was he being detained in at the time of his alleged confession?
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Which prison was he being detained in at the time of his alleged confession?
Canterbury Prison
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Canterbury Prison
A Victorian Prison?
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A Victorian Prison?
No
Pre Queen Victoria born 1819
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No
Pre Queen Victoria born 1819
Do we know what wing Michael Stone was on, and what cell number?
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No, I don't know the cell number or floor.
However, I very much want to get Micheal out of HELL HOLE.
But we need to get JEREMY out of HELL HOLE first!., then Michael.
No pressure Mike!, but I want you to know I will always be here to help.
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Mike,
there is something about the BSA rifle where we are getting VERY hot.
Do you know anything about the BSA rifle?
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'ACOUSTICS'...
That is the way forward...
The walls between this type of cells is sometimes two to three feet thick - Depending upon the location of the informants cell, lets say Michael Stone was in the cell to the informants right, and depending upon which floor the informants cell and Michael Stones cell were situated, it would be impossible for the informant to tell in which direction anyone talking came from, in the instant case, without knowing the actual layout of the cells where the confession was supposedly overheard, and whether or not, not only was there a cell either side of the informants cell, but perhaps even a cell directly above, and directly below, and adjoining cells either side of those other cells...
I have been in Wormwood Scrubs when I had my appeal, I have been in Strangeways prison when the Manchester police investigated my complaints against South Yorkshire police, I have been at Wellford Road, Leicester Prison on remand, many years ago, in connection with a £25,000 theft of silverware the burgalry of a retired judges house, I have been held at HMP Armley in Leeds, I have been detained at Hull Prison, and I can tell you thaat the walls between cells are very thick, sometimes as much as three feet in thickness between each cell, thats left, right, up and down. There's no way that you can tell which direction a person who might be talking to you is located, other than if what is being said is accompanied by a tapping on the pipes, or a banging on the wall, (all pre-arranged), The density of the cell walls, floors and ceilings, distort sound and you can sometimes even hear things being spoken about by someone who might even be on another landing many cells away from where your being detained! You can't easily get direction because of the unusual design features of these very old cells...
'ACOUSTICS'...
At the very least when the trial judge and the jury visited the prison to see if they could have heard the supposed confession, as I understand it, was prejudicial in favour of guilt because they only had someone in one of the cells next to the cell the judge and jury entered. There should have been at least two different people, reciting whatever it was they got them to say, in a cell either side of the one where judge and jury were being entertained. If there were landings above, and below, there should really ought to have been people in numerous cells all reciting in turn, and so the judge and the jury could fully understand the acoustic properties involved.
I would like to bet, that if the judge and the jury had not been told which cell the reciter was present in, a pound to a penny, they wouldn't have a clue which direction, the talking, or the reciting, was coming from?
There are other factors, also...
What time of day or night did this confession evidence supposedly get told?
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Michael Stone is innocent. I will put my life on that.
Please, can we get JEREMY out of HELL HOLE first.
BSA rifle, is it capable of any bullet wounds or burn marks to Nevilles back?
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Michael Stone is innocent. I will put my life on that.
Please, can we get JEREMY out of HELL HOLE first.
BSA rifle, is it capable of any bullet wounds or burn marks to Nevilles back?
Do you know if Michael Stone was 'on the book' at the time of the alleged confession?
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Mike,
I have spent 2 nights in a cell in my life. and without doubt they were my worse nightmare.
1st. drink driving. fair play, stupid idiot I was, car went about 25 metres, from turning on ignition, no one hurt thank God. Hold my hands up!
2nd got stitched up by a young copper, he lied in Magistrate Court. I swear on my fathers grave he did.
So I don't know the Prison 'lingo'.
I would like to 'make a difference' to the folks in prison, as many have mental health issues, and are 'stitched up', more than I was.
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Mike,
I have spent 2 nights in a cell in my life. and without doubt they were my worse nightmare.
1st. drink driving. fair play, stupid idiot I was, and car went about 25 metres, no one hurt thank God. Hold my hands up!
2nd got stitched up by a young copper, he lied in Magistrate Court.
So I don't know the Prison 'lingo'.
I would like to 'make a difference' to the folks in prison, as many have mental health issues.
OK, 'On the Book' means that a prison warder has to check you every 15 minutes and document everything about you in a book, that gets taken everywhere you go. I was just wondering if Michael Stone was 'on the book' at the time of the alleged confession? If he made the confession as alleged, did the prison authorities make a record of the confession in the book, his book?
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OK, 'On the Book' means that a prison warder has to check you every 15 minutes and document everything about you in a book, that gets taken everywhere you go. I was just wondering if Michael Stone was 'on the book' at the time of the alleged confession? If he made the confession as alleged, did the prison authorities make a record of the confession in the book, his book?
Not sure,
Michael Stone is 100% innocent that is all I know.
and I do feel for Josie and her dad.
Personally i think it was Bellfield, but we need to get back on topic!
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BSA
At Prep school I used 'air rifles' target shooting under strict supervision.
I wasn't bad but I wasn't good!
these took 'pellets' small lead type, one at a time from memory.
.....
The .22 BSA air rifle, is that similar to the other two .22?
what is the difference?
thanks
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One is pellets,the other bullets ?
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The work conducted by Smith and Mallinson at Birdwell armoury (2003 /2004) Barnsley, confirmed that both bullet entry wounds that were present on Sheila Caffell's neck, had been inflicted by a .22 type weapon, using primed cartridges, rather than a pellet - this was because when enlarged you could see traces of the propellant around the circumference of the entry wound, something you wouldn't get if the the entry wound had been caused by a pellet from a .22 air rifle!
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Any news on which rifles the RAID team used.
I'm still thinking that PARGETOR's rifle was taken from WHF in error.
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Any news on which rifles the RAID team used.
I'm still thinking that PARGETOR's rifle was taken from WHF in error.
These https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14)
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These https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14)
Look very similar to me.
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Could we have a side by side comparison
Wolf and Ruger Mini-14
thanks David
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Could we have a side by side comparison
Wolf and Ruger Mini-14
thanks David
Ruger mini -
(https://ruger.com/products/mini14RanchRifle/images/5816.jpg)
APs gun would have looked like this.
(https://www.adelaidegunshop.com.au/images/stories/virtuemart/product/14-11%20004.jpg)
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The confidential information I was given regarding the shooting of Sheila in the kitchen, was that she was shot during a struggle with PS Woodcock, as he entered the kitchen via the opening edge of the internal door which Neville Bamber was originally sat behind on one chair, propped up by the other! Of course it must have taken quite a bit of pushing by the police officers on the other side of 'that' door in order to topple Neville's body forward! Sheila supposedly grabbed the barrel of the Ruger 14 mini as Woodcock came into the kitchen around the opening g edge of 'that' door, and as the struggle spilled further afield into the kitchen itself, Sheila was supposed to have pulled the barrel of PS Woodcock's rifle in toward her own neck! This was why by 7.45am, the police were talking in terms of her death downstairs in the kitchen, as a suicide!
I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of my source, he had no reason to lie, if the truth be known, there'd be nothing better if and when the truth breaks, because he didn't agree with the cover up surrounding the circumstances of Sheila's death at the scene! He is adamant that it was the trigger finger of PS Woodcock which fired the original bullet into Sheila Caffell's neck! My understanding is that police quite often used the Ruger mini 14 to shoot dead animals that were a danger to themselves and to members of the public, in other words cops were using this type of weapon in vermin control incidents! This was very interesting to me, because out of the 25 shots fired during the tragedy, only one bullet fragmented so badly upon entry and that was the bullet received by Sheila in her neck, when she was downstairs in the kitchen! That original bullet (PV/20) fragmented as soon as it touched the surface of Sheila Caffell's neck! None of the other 24 bullets fired had this characteristic! This is why I totally believe in what my source has been telling me, since the bullets that police normally fired via the mini Ruger 14's they were using to shoot dangerous animals, or vermin, and pests, were designed to fragment upon impact, unlike the .22 LR Eley subsonic hollow points which were invariably used in the shootings which ordinarily did not fragment so much as the .22 police issue round...
For what it's worth, the information I was given was that PS Woodcock had intended to shoot the dog which was barking as soon as he got into the kitchen! Cops knew that a dog had been barking, and they were also aware of Sheila Mimicking the barking dog, every time the police yelled out instructions to the occupants of the farmhouse via loud hailer to give themselves up, and to come out of the farmhouse! At one stage, the police engaged in a remarkable conversation with someone inside the farmhouse, who they thought was Sheila at around 5.25am...
It wasn't any ordinary sort of a conversation by anybodies standards, infact, it was basically a one sided conversation in the queen's English, and barked responses to what the police were instructing that person to do! One bark for yes, two consecutive barks for no..
Not surprisingly, most of the requests by the police via loud hailer were met by two consecutive barks!
By 5.55am...
The police outside the farmhouse, had requested that the person making the barks should go to the telephone and dial 999 so that police could have a proper conversation with them! Rather somewhat astonishingly, at this suggestion the person they were engaged in conversation with from inside the farmhouse, barked only once!
Even more remarkable, was the fact that the phone which had been off the hook until 'that' time (5.55am) suddenly and rather mysteriously became engaged so that the police back in the control room at Chelmsford could no longer eavesdrop automatically, so they requested that the operator somehow if at all possible, break into the call being made from inside the farmhouse and patch it through to the police in the control room?
This was achieved at 6.09am...
At this time, there was another rather bizarre conversation which took place between Sheila (it was believed at the time to have been Sheila), and PC Mills! For example, he was putting requests and questions to the person on the line, which were continuing to be responded to in the same dog barking fashion, previously! One bark for yes, two barks for no...
As a result of this painstaking procedure, PC Mills managed to establish that members of the family had already been shot, and he told the recipient on the other end of the phone, that he was sending ambulances to the scene (this took place at around 6.15am), and in response to PC Mills suggestion, Sheila is known to have yelped a singular bark! By 7am, the two ambulances and their staff arrived at the scene, one was supposed to go directly to the farmhouse to tend to the wounded, whilst the other was to be on standby parked up ready in nearby Pages Lane...
But...
There was a problem when Sheila moved away from the telephone, this came about after another request for the occupants to give themselves up, to show the weapons at a window, so that police could see that no-one was armed inside, or able to shoot anyone, when the paramedics went in! As things turned out, Sheila had left the telephone without any warning and gone upstairs and placed the family owned Anshuzt rifle at the first floor box room window! However, because police knew that there was a whole armoury of different types of firearms and ammunition in the farmhouse, they decided to send the raid team in, and keep the paramedics back!
These are the details of the seige which I have been privy to learning about, a conversation with Sheila who was as alive as you or me, inside the farmhouse, choosing to communicate with the police using barking and whining noises! I know that many of you will find it hard to comprehend that there was this exchange between the firearm officers outside the farmhouse and Sheila within, and much later, between PC Mills and Sheila after 6.09am, but those are the true facts, Sheila was alive as stated, the police know she was alive and that Jeremy Bamber did not shoot dead his sister Sheila Caffell either downstairs, or upstairs!
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Ruger mini -
(https://ruger.com/products/mini14RanchRifle/images/5816.jpg)
APs gun would have looked like this.
(https://www.adelaidegunshop.com.au/images/stories/virtuemart/product/14-11%20004.jpg)
It will be discovered, that the family owned .22 anshuzt rifle was much longer than either Anthony Pargeters .22 Bruno rifle, and the police service .22 mini Ruger 14...
Once the measurements are to hand, you will then realise that what I have been telling you all, about senior officers undertaking a 'gauging exercise' on the main bedroom floor with the anshuzt rifle from the box room window, is absolutely true! Cops were contemplating saying that Sheila had shot herself with the anshuzt rifle, not that she had been shot with a bullet from a police service rifle! In any event, their minds were made up for them when the anshuzt rifle discharged the critical fatal shot which killed Sheila outright! However, by that stage, police were faced with yet another problem - how to keep the relatives and the public from knowing that Sheila had been shot and killed by use of two totally different weapons, and that one of these two weapons had been a police service weapon!
The matter did not end there, either, because ballistics would show (if they ever got around to it) that the police weapon had fired the first bullet at a time when Sheila's body was downstairs in the kitchen, and that she was shot by the family owned rifle afterwards, upstairs in the main bedroom! The police found themselves caught up in an investigative nightmare, where Sheila was dead downstairs in the kitchen, she was dead upstairs on her parents bed, and she was dead on the main bedroom floor! But the truth was far more bizzare than anyone could ever begin to imagine, since although Sheila's body was downstairs in the region of the kitchen between 7.35am and 8.10am, she was not dead, and had not fired by that stage! Neither was she dead when her body was relocated after a degree of heightened panic her body laid on top of the bed, neither was she dead when during 'informatives' her body was carefully lifted from on the bed, onto the bedroom floor at just after 9.10am...
Sheila did not die on the main bedroom floor until precisely 9.13am,, after senior officers ordered that the anshuzt rifle be brought from the box room window and put to Sheila's body in what can best be described as 'a gauging exercise' where the police wanted to see if her death (now upstairs) could be presented as occurring by use of the Anshuzt rifle, rather than the police service one!
'BANG'!
How would it have been possible for police to recite the actual truthfulness in this matter, without causing a few raised eyebrows, amidst a cloud of suspicion that cops had got something to hide? They were buggered if they did, and they were buggered because they didn't...
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Non disclosure of the timed police radio message logs by the time of the October 1986 trial, and the 2002 appeal, was a deliberate ploy to keep the truth from anyone who might even be remotely interested in the truth!
At the trial, for example, as was the case by the time of the appeal, it was still the police case, that they had found one body downstairs, and the other four bodies all upstairs!
Well, of course, the contents of all the relevantly timed police radio messages discredit that proposition, there had been two bodies downstairs, the body of a man, and the body of a woman, a murder and a suicide, known about by 7.45am...
Moreover, only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am...
So, the court which tried Jeremy Bamber for these murders, has been deceived by the powers that be, since there wasn't only one body downstairs in the kitchen, and the other four upstairs, there was clearly a very strong case to suggest that there had been in fact two bodies downstairs in the kitchen from as early as 7.35am, and only three bodies upstairs by 8.10am...
This was important evidence deliberately kept from the defendant, his legal team, and the jury which tried the case!
It's a very disturbing feature which cannot go by without being dealt with in a lawful manner!
We now know, for example, that every raid team officer who made a witness statement declaring they only found Neville Bambers body downstairs in the kitchen, and that the bodies of the other four victims were all found upstairs, have all been guilty of perverting the course of justice, forgery, and conspiracy! Of course, the powers that be will not be breaking their necks to prosecute these individuals because those responsible can consider themselves one of their own!
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According to what Jeremy says, all these firearm officers have been granted immunity from ever being charged with any criminal offences arising out of the false witness statements they gave all made where they falsely place Sheila Caffell's body as always having been laid upon the main bedroom floor in possession of the 'anshuzt rifle'...
That just about sums up, how corrupt those that work and operate within the Criminal Justice System can be!
Everybody, who has ever had the misfortune to be prosecuted by the police for something they deny having done, will know how corrupt and dishonest the cops can be! How bias the Magistrate court system is in favour of what cops have to say...
The dishonesty goes right the way up to the top courts in the land, bias in favour of corrupted and faked evidence, they make each others witness statements to corroborate what they say in their own statements, they rely on notes made by another officer in their notebook because it supposedly relates to the same incident, even when it's proved that the notebooks in question weren't even issued to the officer at the time they supposedly made their notes up in it!
The cops are the real criminals, it means nothing to them to lie, and to fabricate - they can always rely on a colleague to make a corresponding witness statement corroborating what has been said...
There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind, that Jeremy Bamber has been framed as the killer whale n his case, without any evidence to prove he not only did it, but that he could have done it?
How could he have shot dead his sister upstairs on his parents bedroom floor, after police had already called her death downstairs in the kitchen (7.35am), and upstairs on the far side of the bed (8.44am)? It would have been impossible, it is impossible...