Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: David1819 on February 14, 2018, 02:10:PM
-
Covert police surveillance records show Jeremy and Brett driving a van full of stuff to an antique shop.
The 17 page topic of arguments between Nugs and Caroline can now end. ;D
-
I'm finding that hard to read does is it say what they actually sold.
-
I'm finding that hard to read does is it say what they actually sold.
No. These were cops following him via car and keeping an eye. They wont be able to get too much details.
The description is so similar to RWBs account. He could only have got this info from either the these police or Julie. How else would he know?
-
No. These were cops following him via car and keeping an eye. They wont be able to get too much details.
The description is so similar to RWBs account. He could only have got this info from either the these police or Julie. How else would he know?
RWB arranged to have the flat watched - he says so in his notes ....
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=460.0;attach=1414;image)
-
Jeremy was subject of a surveillance by the drug Squad, under a 28 day warrant which included a phone tap - this 28 day period expired midnight 3rd / 4th September 1985, a surveillance which commenced on the eve' prior to the tragedy, on 6th August 1985! Jeremy was followed home to his cottage at 9 head street, Goldhanger, by drug Squad officers, they sat parked up in undercover motor vehicles in the street outside Jeremy's cottage! The call from Neville Bamber to Jeremy was eavesdropped at around 3.25am, as was Jeremy's attempts to re-establish contact with Neville, and Jeremy's attempt to contact police at Witham police station, and his calls to Julie Mugford' at 3.30am and later another call that Jeremy made to PC West at 3.37am! Later, when PC West encouraged Jeremy to go to the farm where he would be met by police officers who had already been deployed to the incident, the surveillance team followed him back to whf at a discreet distance!
-
I don't belive he was being watched by the drug squad he was growing a bit in his back garden that wouldent be enogh to attract there intrest.
-
I don't belive he was being watched by the drug squad he was growing a bit in his back garden that wouldent be enogh to attract there intrest.
He was under surveillance at the time of the tragedy, and there was a warrant which had been issued under the interception of telecommunications act to eavesdrop his telephone, the telephone at whf, the telephone where Julie Mugford' resided, and all Jeremy's contacts, including drug dealers in Holland and Scotland. The surveillance not only involved the drug Squad but Special Branch were also involved - an aeroplane was also used to take reconnaissance photographs of whf and Goldhanger on the 6th of August 1985 as part of that operation!
After the tragedy at whf the surveillance continued, and he was followed and monitored - on one such occasion when Jeremy returned to whf and climbed in through a downstairs window of the farmhouse to get money from inside, the surveillance team observed him opening the ground floor window using an instrument which turned out to be a piece of broken hacksaw blade! Later on the farm secretary discovered a hand written note from Jeremy which stated that he had borrowed some money that he needed but that he would repay it by the next day (which he did)!
Special Branch got involved because of Jeremy's link to Buckingham Palace where his natural parents worked!
-
Thanks to Caroline and ngb for giving their personal time and and fixing the forum. :) :)
-
The Executor of the Bamber parents estates told Jeremy that there would be death duties payable, and he was advised that one way of raising the cash would be to sell some of the family assets, such as paintings and other items of value, and he was advised to get things valued for this purpose! There is absolutely no evidence that Jeremy Bamber and or Brett Collins did anything underhand, or that they made money from selling anything taken out of whf, everything was done above board in keeping with what Basil John Cock advised Jeremy about!
The relatives made such a big thing about this, because they got this information from the executor of the estates, and from the police - in the same way they found out about Jeremy climbing into whf through a ground floor window using a piece of broken hacksaw blade! Jeremy did nothing wrong when he got items valued at auction or wherever, nor when he climbed into the farmhouse through the window as mentioned! The reason he climbed in through the window was because the back door he had a key for previously had been smashed off its hinges by the police and replaced with a new door and lock. Interestingly enough he did not commit any offence in either getting items valued, or upon entering the farmhouse, both at times when it was bright daylight!
-
Thanks to Caroline and ngb for giving their personal time and and fixing the forum. :) :)
I tried, on numerous occasions, yesterday, to open up a new topic in which posters could register their thanks. Sadly, each time I posted, I was prevented by a "Bad Gateway" so I just sent a pm.
-
I tried, on numerous occasions, yesterday, to open up a new topic in which posters could register their thanks. Sadly, each time I posted, I was prevented by a "Bad Gateway" so I just sent a pm.
Yes, that's why I have posted this here. It's must have been a heck of a commitment to fix it and wanted to register my thanks on the forum.
-
Thanks to Caroline and ngb for giving their personal time and and fixing the forum. :) :)
I second that Maggie. I hadn't realised that anything was wrong with other than my own PC------I've made a muck of it fiddling about hahahaha,but gave up and watched the Olympics ( ice-skating etc )
Thankyou to both Caroline and NGB xx---------left to me there'd have been a blank screen. As it is,the PC is " restarting " in an hour ? Lord knows what I've done !
-
I second that Maggie. I hadn't realised that anything was wrong with other than my own PC------I've made a muck of it fiddling about hahahaha,but gave up and watched the Olympics ( ice-skating etc )
Thankyou to both Caroline and NGB xx---------left to me there'd have been a blank screen. As it is,the PC is " restarting " in an hour ? Lord knows what I've done !
;D
-
Thanks to Caroline and ngb for giving their personal time and and fixing the forum. :) :)
Thanks all, it wasn't a fault - just an oversite and a communication issue - I'm sure everyone enjoyed the short break? ;D ;D
-
Thanks all, it wasn't a fault - just an oversite and a communication issue - I'm sure everyone enjoyed the short break? ;D ;D
I had a fine time shouting at the judges when Elise Christie was pushed off her position in the speedskating.What a horrible lot ! I don't know whether the break away from this was good for me in that respect,hahahaha.
-
Why were aerial photographs being taken of whf on evening of the 6th August 1985?
-
Why did June Bamber not attend her usual Bible class (6th August 1985) on the evening before the shootings?
-
Was it just a coincidence, that Sheila and June were both at loggerheads on such a significant religious celebratory date ('The transfiguration of god' - 6th August 1985)?
-
Was it just a coincidence, that Sheila and June were both at loggerheads on such a significant religious celebratory date ('The transfiguration of god' - 6th August 1985)?
New Testament accounts Edit
Georgian manuscript of Transfiguration in the Gospel of Mark, 1300.
In the Synoptic Gospels, (Matthew 17:1–8, Mark 9:2–8, Luke 9:28–36) the account of the transfiguration happens towards the middle of the narrative.[11] It is a key episode and almost immediately follows another important element, the Confession of Peter: "you are the Christ" (Matthew 16:16, Mark 8:29, Luke 9:20).[1] The Transfiguration narrative acts as a further revelation of the identity of Jesus as the Son of God to some of his disciples.[1][11]
In the gospels, Jesus takes Peter, James, son of Zebedee and his brother John the Apostle with him and goes up to a mountain, which is not named. Once on the mountain, Matthew 17:2 states that Jesus "was transfigured before them; his face shining as the sun, and his garments became white as the light." At that point the prophets Elijah and Moses appear and Jesus begins to talk to them.[1] Luke states that they spoke of Jesus' exodus (??????) which he was about to accomplish in Jerusalem.(Lk 9:31) Luke is also specific in describing Jesus in a state of glory, with Luke 9:32 referring to "they saw His glory".[12]
Just as Elijah and Moses begin to depart from the scene, Peter begins to ask Jesus if the disciples should make three tents for him and the two prophets. This has been interpreted as Peter's attempt to keep the prophets there longer.[12] But before Peter can finish, a bright cloud appears, and a voice from the cloud states: "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him" (Mark 9:7). The disciples then fall to the ground in fear, but Jesus approaches and touches them, telling them not to be afraid. When the disciples look up, they no longer see Elijah or Moses.[1]
When Jesus and the three apostles are going back down the mountain, Jesus tells them to not tell anyone "the things they had seen" until the "Son of Man" has risen from the dead. The apostles are described as questioning among themselves as to what Jesus meant by "risen from the dead".[13]
In addition to the principal account given in the synoptic gospels; in 2 Peter 1:16–18, the Apostle Peter describes himself as an eyewitness "of his magnificence."
Elsewhere in the New Testament, Paul the Apostle's reference in 2 Corinthians 3:18 to the "transformation of believers" via "beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord" became the theological basis for considering the Transfiguration as the basis for processes which lead the faithful to the knowledge of God.[14][15]
Although Matthew 17 lists the disciple John as being present during the Transfiguration, the Gospel of John has no account of it.[16][17][18] This has resulted in debate among scholars, some suggesting doubts about the authorship of the Gospel of John, others providing explanations for it.[16][17] One explanation (that goes back to Eusebius of Caesarea in the fourth century) is that John wrote his gospel not to overlap with the synoptic gospels, but to supplement it, and hence did not include all of their narrative.[16] Others believe that the Gospel of John does in fact allude to the Transfiguration, in John 1:14.[3] This is not the only incident not present in the fourth gospel, and the institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper is another key example, indicating that the author either was not aware of these narrative traditions, or did not accept their veracity.[17] The general explanation is thus the Gospel of John was written thematically, to suit the author's theological purposes, and has a less narrative style than the synoptics.[16][17][18]
Theology Edit
-
When Pictures Become Windows – A Sermon on the Transfiguration, Mark 9:2-9]
On the Last Sunday after Epiphany we hear the story of the transfiguration. The collect and readings may be found here. The following sermon is based on St. Mark’s account of the transfiguration, Mark 9:2-9.
Icon of the Transfiguration
There are times in our lives when we look around and wonder, “Is this all there is?” Sometimes it’s just a passing question, other times it’s for a season. We look at our life, our circumstances, and we want more. There is a restlessness, a searching, and longing for something else. Some call it a mid-life crisis. It can make us do crazy things – this searching and seeking. We get a new job, a new car, a new relationship. Maybe we take up a new hobby, go on a trip, or work extra hours. But not much changes.
It is not about the circumstances of life. It’s about us. The restlessness, the desire for something more, generally means that we have been living life at the shallow end of the pool. Life and relationships have become superficial. We have been skimming across the surface. In some ways life at the surface is easier, more efficient, encouraged and rewarded by much of the world today. It fails, however, to see and experience that the world is already transfigured and creation is filled with the divine light.
Life on the surface keeps us judging the circumstances. We look at the our circumstances as a picture. If it is pretty, pleasing, and shows us what we want to see then God is good and life is as it should be. When we don’t see what we want then we often look for a new picture. The restless searching, the longing for more, the desire for meaning are not, however, usually answered by changed circumstances. The answer is found in depth, intimacy, and the vulnerability of the interior journey.
We do not need to see new things. We need to see the same old things with new eyes. We do not need to hear a different voice. We need to hear the same old voice with different ears. We do not need to escape the circumstances of our life. We need to be more fully present to those circumstances. When this happens life is no longer lived at the surface. These are the transfigured moments, moments when the picture of our life has becomes a window into a new world and we come face to face with the glory of God.
Most of us, I think, seek God in the circumstances of life. We want God to show up, be present, and do something. This is the God who does. This is the God described in Mark’s gospel up to the point of today’s reading. We might think about this as the first part of the spiritual journey. It is the journey of discovering God in the circumstances. This is what the disciples have been doing.
They have seen Jesus cast our demons, heal Peter’s mother in law, and cure the sick of Capernaum. He’s cleansed the leper and made a withered hand new and strong. Paralytics now walk, the blind see, and thousands are fed. This is the God about whom people talk, the God that gets “likes” and “shares” on Facebook.
At some point we must, however, begin to discover the God who is beyond the circumstances. This is the God who is. This is the second part of the spiritual journey. Jesus is leading Peter, James and John, up the mountain to discover the God who is beyond circumstances. Here their pictures of life’s circumstances will become windows by which they move into the depths of God’s life, God’s light, and God’s love.
There on the mountain they saw Jesus “transfigured before them, and his clothes became dazzling white, such as no one on earth could bleach them.” The cloud overshadowed them and the Father’s voice spoke of his beloved son. Peter wants to build dwelling places. He wants to frame Jesus, Elijah, and Moses. “It is good for us to be here,” he says. He wants to preserve it. He wants to take a picture.
Pictures, however, are static. On the Mount of Transfiguration our pictures of life’s circumstances become windows through which we step into a new world, a new way of seeing, a new way of hearing, and new way of being. That’s what happened for Peter, James, and John. Jesus did not suddenly light up and become something he was not. No, their eyes were healed and opened so they could see Jesus as he had always been. The voice in the cloud was not new. Their ears were opened and they heard the voice that has never ceased speaking from the beginning. The transfiguration is as much about them as it is Jesus. Whenever our picture of life’s circumstances becomes a window into new life we stand in a transfigured moment. Circumstances haven’t changed. We have changed and that seems to change everything.
Those transfigured moments are all around. Every one of us could tell a story about stepping back from the picture of our life, seeing with new eyes, listening with different ears, and discovering a window that opened into another world and another way of being.
Maybe it was the day you revealed to another person the secret you had carried for years. In telling the secret the picture of your life as one of guilt and shame became an open window through which you stepped. The darkness gave way to light, the chains fell off, and forgiveness overcame sin. I will never forget the day we buried our older son. We came home from the cemetery and I was lying on the bed. I could not see him but he was present – a little boy being given a piggyback ride. I could not touch him but I felt the warmth of his life, his weight on my back, and his right knee gouging my ribs as he bounced up and down. The picture of death and loss had become a window through I stepped into the mystery of life, hope, and resurrection. Think about the day you held your child for the very first time. Yes, it was a picture of a newborn but it was also a window through which you stepped and were forever changed. You experienced a new vocation as a parent. You became a part of the mystery of creation. The Lord’s glory surely shone as much in your hands that day as it did on the mount of transfiguration 2000 years ago.
I remember speaking with a woman who was dying. Together we talked, laughed, cried, and sat in silence. She said she had had some “experiences.” She had visions and heard voices. “Is that real? Is it normal?” “Yes, absolutely.” The picture of her life as one of cancer, pain, and suffering had become an open window through which she stepped. She began to understand that in the midst of her cancer she was already being healed. “There is so much more going on than we usually see or know,” she said. The tears and fear are real but just as real is the voice that says to her, “Oh my daughter, my beloved, you are already ok.” Those windows are everywhere if we have eyes to see and ears to hear.
We often want to go back to those transfigured moments. We are tempted to build dwellings places for those moments. Booths, dwelling places, will only keep us in the past. To the extent we cling to the past we close ourselves to the future God offers. So Jesus, Peter, James, and John came back down the mountain. They could not stay there but neither did they leave the mountain. They took it with them. It is what would carry them through the passion and crucifixion to the resurrection.
Transfigured moments change us, sustain us, prepare us, encourage us, and guide us into the future regardless of the circumstances we face. They show us who we are. We are the transfigured people of God. Open your eyes and see a transfigured world. Open your ears and hear the transfiguring voice. Open your heart and become a transfigured life.
Every picture of life is an open window that says, “No, this is not all there is.”
-
When Pictures Become Windows – A Sermon on the Transfiguration, Mark 9:2-9]
On the Last Sunday after Epiphany we hear the story of the transfiguration. The collect and readings may be found here. The following sermon is based on St. Mark’s account of the transfiguration, Mark 9:2-9.
Icon of the Transfiguration
There are times in our lives when we look around and wonder, “Is this all there is?” Sometimes it’s just a passing question, other times it’s for a season. We look at our life, our circumstances, and we want more. There is a restlessness, a searching, and longing for something else. Some call it a mid-life crisis. It can make us do crazy things – this searching and seeking. We get a new job, a new car, a new relationship. Maybe we take up a new hobby, go on a trip, or work extra hours. But not much changes.
It is not about the circumstances of life. It’s about us. The restlessness, the desire for something more, generally means that we have been living life at the shallow end of the pool. Life and relationships have become superficial. We have been skimming across the surface. In some ways life at the surface is easier, more efficient, encouraged and rewarded by much of the world today. It fails, however, to see and experience that the world is already transfigured and creation is filled with the divine light.
Life on the surface keeps us judging the circumstances. We look at the our circumstances as a picture. If it is pretty, pleasing, and shows us what we want to see then God is good and life is as it should be. When we don’t see what we want then we often look for a new picture. The restless searching, the longing for more, the desire for meaning are not, however, usually answered by changed circumstances. The answer is found in depth, intimacy, and the vulnerability of the interior journey.
We do not need to see new things. We need to see the same old things with new eyes. We do not need to hear a different voice. We need to hear the same old voice with different ears. We do not need to escape the circumstances of our life. We need to be more fully present to those circumstances. When this happens life is no longer lived at the surface. These are the transfigured moments, moments when the picture of our life has becomes a window into a new world and we come face to face with the glory of God.
Most of us, I think, seek God in the circumstances of life. We want God to show up, be present, and do something. This is the God who does. This is the God described in Mark’s gospel up to the point of today’s reading. We might think about this as the first part of the spiritual journey. It is the journey of discovering God in the circumstances. This is what the disciples have been doing.
They have seen Jesus cast our demons, heal Peter’s mother in law, and cure the sick of Capernaum. He’s cleansed the leper and made a withered hand new and strong. Paralytics now walk, the blind see, and thousands are fed. This is the God about whom people talk, the God that gets “likes” and “shares” on Facebook.
At some point we must, however, begin to discover the God who is beyond the circumstances. This is the God who is. This is the second part of the spiritual journey. Jesus is leading Peter, James and John, up the mountain to discover the God who is beyond circumstances. Here their pictures of life’s circumstances will become windows by which they move into the depths of God’s life, God’s light, and God’s love.
There on the mountain they saw Jesus “transfigured before them, and his clothes became dazzling white, such as no one on earth could bleach them.” The cloud overshadowed them and the Father’s voice spoke of his beloved son. Peter wants to build dwelling places. He wants to frame Jesus, Elijah, and Moses. “It is good for us to be here,” he says. He wants to preserve it. He wants to take a picture.
Pictures, however, are static. On the Mount of Transfiguration our pictures of life’s circumstances become windows through which we step into a new world, a new way of seeing, a new way of hearing, and new way of being. That’s what happened for Peter, James, and John. Jesus did not suddenly light up and become something he was not. No, their eyes were healed and opened so they could see Jesus as he had always been. The voice in the cloud was not new. Their ears were opened and they heard the voice that has never ceased speaking from the beginning. The transfiguration is as much about them as it is Jesus. Whenever our picture of life’s circumstances becomes a window into new life we stand in a transfigured moment. Circumstances haven’t changed. We have changed and that seems to change everything.
Those transfigured moments are all around. Every one of us could tell a story about stepping back from the picture of our life, seeing with new eyes, listening with different ears, and discovering a window that opened into another world and another way of being.
Maybe it was the day you revealed to another person the secret you had carried for years. In telling the secret the picture of your life as one of guilt and shame became an open window through which you stepped. The darkness gave way to light, the chains fell off, and forgiveness overcame sin. I will never forget the day we buried our older son. We came home from the cemetery and I was lying on the bed. I could not see him but he was present – a little boy being given a piggyback ride. I could not touch him but I felt the warmth of his life, his weight on my back, and his right knee gouging my ribs as he bounced up and down. The picture of death and loss had become a window through I stepped into the mystery of life, hope, and resurrection. Think about the day you held your child for the very first time. Yes, it was a picture of a newborn but it was also a window through which you stepped and were forever changed. You experienced a new vocation as a parent. You became a part of the mystery of creation. The Lord’s glory surely shone as much in your hands that day as it did on the mount of transfiguration 2000 years ago.
I remember speaking with a woman who was dying. Together we talked, laughed, cried, and sat in silence. She said she had had some “experiences.” She had visions and heard voices. “Is that real? Is it normal?” “Yes, absolutely.” The picture of her life as one of cancer, pain, and suffering had become an open window through which she stepped. She began to understand that in the midst of her cancer she was already being healed. “There is so much more going on than we usually see or know,” she said. The tears and fear are real but just as real is the voice that says to her, “Oh my daughter, my beloved, you are already ok.” Those windows are everywhere if we have eyes to see and ears to hear.
We often want to go back to those transfigured moments. We are tempted to build dwellings places for those moments. Booths, dwelling places, will only keep us in the past. To the extent we cling to the past we close ourselves to the future God offers. So Jesus, Peter, James, and John came back down the mountain. They could not stay there but neither did they leave the mountain. They took it with them. It is what would carry them through the passion and crucifixion to the resurrection.
Transfigured moments change us, sustain us, prepare us, encourage us, and guide us into the future regardless of the circumstances we face. They show us who we are. We are the transfigured people of God. Open your eyes and see a transfigured world. Open your ears and hear the transfiguring voice. Open your heart and become a transfigured life.
Every picture of life is an open window that says, “No, this is not all there is.”
This is all very moving.
-
is this stuff from whf or fromsheilas flat.
-
RWB arranged to have the flat watched - he says so in his notes ....
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=460.0;attach=1414;image)
How can RWB just arrange for London police to follow someone around and report back to him? ???
-
That's what I asked a day or two ago-------but got no response.The same as you won't.
-
How can RWB just arrange for London police to follow someone around and report back to him? ???
well if he could then that explains a lot.
-
well if he could then that explains a lot.
Of course it does. A guilty conscience for starters.
-
How can RWB just arrange for London police to follow someone around and report back to him? ???
No Idea, but if it were sinister, I doubt he's have mentioned it and doubt even more that it would have been allowed into the public domain.
-
That's what I asked a day or two ago-------but got no response.The same as you won't.
I didn't see you post Lookout - I don't read every post, Sorry but that's just the way it is. By the way, the question isn't something I can answer unless I made something up - I don't like doing that, there's enough of it on here!
-
I didn't see you post Lookout - I don't read every post, Sorry but that's just the way it is. By the way, the question isn't something I can answer unless I made something up - I don't like doing that, there's enough of it on here!
No worries.I don't read all the posts either.
-
No worries.I don't read all the posts either.
OK, but if you ask me something and I don't reply, it's likely I just did see it. Just ask again.
-
Nothing to do with the thread but Jon Venables has been attacked in prison - There are pictures in circulation on the internet that look nothing like him.
-
Nothing to do with the thread but Jon Venables has been attacked in prison - There are pictures circulation on the internet that look nothing like him.
I guess the silence here says much more than words.
-
I guess the silence here says much more than words.
It dangerous to circulate pictures though, they look nothing like Venables and they aren't even of the same person. This this usually when someone innocent get hurt or worse.
-
I guess the silence here says much more than words.
I can tell you why. It's now been reported that James had injuries of a sexual nature !! Poor little mite.This information has only just come to light.
-
It dangerous to circulate pictures though, they look nothing like Venables and they aren't even of the same person. This this usually when someone innocent get hurt or worse.
Oh dear. We could tell them a thing or two about pictures that are NOTHING like the people we were told they were. This is the sort of thing that can whip up blind and unreasoning animal instincts in otherwise reasonable people.
-
Oh dear. We could tell them a thing or two about pictures that are NOTHING like the people we were told they were. This is the sort of thing that can whip up blind and unreasoning animal instincts in otherwise reasonable people.
I wouldn't have thought it mattered in prison---------maybe a couple more recent inmates deserve a thrashing !!
-
I wouldn't have thought it mattered in prison---------maybe a couple more recent inmates deserve a thrashing !!
I fear, that if we lived by the rules you advocate, we'd descend into chaos. It might start with turning a blind eye when those responsible for committing horrendous and unforgivable crimes get, what some believe, is coming to them, above and beyond the prison sentence they're serving. It would probably end in ungovernable mob rule, where everyone who's disliked by someone else has to live in fear for their safety.
-
I fear, that if we lived by the rules you advocate, we'd descend into chaos. It might start with turning a blind eye when those responsible for committing horrendous and unforgivable crimes get, what some believe, is coming to them, above and beyond the prison sentence they're serving. It would probably end in ungovernable mob rule, where everyone who's disliked by someone else has to live in fear for their safety.
For goodness sake. Two monsters have been jailed for 30 odd years each------does it matter if they get what will come to them ? No, because their poor victims having already suffered more than half their lives will be affected for the rest of them,with flashbacks.
Both evil characters who don't deserve to live----or better still,what you DON'T advocate and that's to be forever in fear of being lynched for the next 30 years.
-
For goodness sake. Two monsters have been jailed for 30 odd years each------does it matter if they get what will come to them ? No, because their poor victims having already suffered more than half their lives will be affected for the rest of them,with flashbacks.
Both evil characters who don't deserve to live----or better still,what you DON'T advocate and that's to be forever in fear of being lynched for the next 30 years.
There's no denying that they're where they should be. It would be preferable for it to be on a "life means life" basis.It would be better if they weren't, for their safety, put in solitary confinement. They should certainly experience the fear their victims felt.
-
For goodness sake. Two monsters have been jailed for 30 odd years each------does it matter if they get what will come to them ? No, because their poor victims having already suffered more than half their lives will be affected for the rest of them,with flashbacks.
Both evil characters who don't deserve to live----or better still,what you DON'T advocate and that's to be forever in fear of being lynched for the next 30 years.
That's how a lot of people would have felt when Jeremy was attacked. Personally, I don't think we should turn a blind eye at all or prison would be nothing more than an animal house. You're a contradiction Lookout.
-
That's how a lot of people would have felt when Jeremy was attacked. Personally, I don't think we should turn a blind eye at all or prison would be nothing more than an animal house. You're a contradiction Lookout.
No,I'm no contradiction,I'm a Realist.
As you well know I'm a supporter of JB because of his innocence and just because some idiot in the same prison couldn't wait his turn to use the phone,he decided to glass JB which isn't the same as having committed a heinous crime outside of prison.
Yes,it was a cruel and vicious attack which NOBODY saw coming !
-
No,I'm no contradiction,I'm a Realist.
As you well know I'm a supporter of JB because of his innocence and just because some idiot in the same prison couldn't wait his turn to use the phone,he decided to glass JB which isn't the same as having committed a heinous crime outside of prison.
Yes,it was a cruel and vicious attack which NOBODY saw coming !
Whilst the reason given for the attack may have been the use of a phone, it MAY not be the real reason. After all, the attacker would have had to have the piece of glass on his person -which is a rather odd thing to do just to make a phone call- and you seem to forget, because of your rose tinteds, that MANY see Jeremy in exactly the same way as you see those you believe to have committed heinous crimes outside of prison. YOUR way appears to be one way for everyone else but something entirely different for Jeremy. THAT'S what makes you a contradiction.
-
Whilst the reason given for the attack may have been the use of a phone, it MAY not be the real reason. After all, the attacker would have had to have the piece of glass on his person -which is a rather odd thing to do just to make a phone call- and you seem to forget, because of your rose tinteds, that MANY see Jeremy in exactly the same way as you see those you believe to have committed heinous crimes outside of prison. YOUR way appears to be one way for everyone else but something entirely different for Jeremy. THAT'S what makes you a contradiction.
You always have to put a spin on something------probably,like the Government,to avoid agreeing,or admitting the truth !
Isn't it plain that because I see Jeremy as an innocent caught up in red-tape and bureaucracy,that your every post has to involve HIM ? Whereas I speak for the millions who think and would say the same as I do--------regardless of who's involved with what.
The troublesome article who'd attacked Jeremy was your typical no-hoper,the dross of society whose actions that day got him in more hot-water than he already was. It was an unprovoked attack from a slob who didn't know any better----------all because HE wanted to use the phone NOW,which has nothing whatsoever to do with rose-tinted specs on my part !
If anyone is contradictory-----it's YOU ! Think about it.
-
You always have to put a spin on something------probably,like the Government,to avoid agreeing,or admitting the truth !
Isn't it plain that because I see Jeremy as an innocent caught up in red-tape and bureaucracy,that your every post has to involve HIM ? Whereas I speak for the millions who think and would say the same as I do--------regardless of who's involved with what.
The troublesome article who'd attacked Jeremy was your typical no-hoper,the dross of society whose actions that day got him in more hot-water than he already was. It was an unprovoked attack from a slob who didn't know any better----------all because HE wanted to use the phone NOW,which has nothing whatsoever to do with rose-tinted specs on my part !
If anyone is contradictory-----it's YOU ! Think about it.
It's not spin, though. I just accept there there are several ways of looking a situations -according to where one stands with it- and not necessarily clear-cut right or wrong answers. You have fully outlined the character of the person who attacked Jeremy A) as you want him to be B) as you've been told he was. What I'm 100% certain of is that you have no personal knowledge of this person. It MAY be that in your guess work/repetition of someone else's words, you're correct..................but there's an equally good chance that you've blackened his character to whiten Jeremy's.
-
It's not spin, though. I just accept there there are several ways of looking a situations -according to where one stands with it- and not necessarily clear-cut right or wrong answers. You have fully outlined the character of the person who attacked Jeremy A) as you want him to be B) as you've been told he was. What I'm 100% certain of is that you have no personal knowledge of this person. It MAY be that in your guess work/repetition of someone else's words, you're correct..................but there's an equally good chance that you've blackened his character to whiten Jeremy's.
How ridiculous. To blacken a person's character in order to keep Jeremy's white ? If you'd seen a pic of that slob you might have understood.As it happened I do remember the story and if you had anything about you you'd look it up and see for yourself instead of accusing me of being negative toward anyone other than Jeremy. Whether the victim of the attack had been JB or not,it wouldn't make a scrap of difference how I viewed the attacker.
-
No,I'm no contradiction,I'm a Realist.
As you well know I'm a supporter of JB because of his innocence and just because some idiot in the same prison couldn't wait his turn to use the phone,he decided to glass JB which isn't the same as having committed a heinous crime outside of prison.
Yes,it was a cruel and vicious attack which NOBODY saw coming !
But had that attack happened on another prisoner, you would have thought it was fine. The guy who attacked Jeremy thought he was guilty, so in your eyes, doesn't that make him fair game? See where that attitude ends you up?
-
But had that attack happened on another prisoner, you would have thought it was fine. The guy who attacked Jeremy thought he was guilty, so in your eyes, doesn't that make him fair game? See where that attitude ends you up?
Any attacks in a place that's supposed to be protected is unacceptable. Shouldn't you be asking how it happened and why it was allowed to happen ?
-
How ridiculous. To blacken a person's character in order to keep Jeremy's white ? If you'd seen a pic of that slob you might have understood.As it happened I do remember the story and if you had anything about you you'd look it up and see for yourself instead of accusing me of being negative toward anyone other than Jeremy. Whether the victim of the attack had been JB or not,it wouldn't make a scrap of difference how I viewed the attacker.
Lookout, you are negative about every player in this tragedy who isn't Jeremy -possibly it's the only way you can keep up the myth of his innocence?- and rather like people who blame everyone other than themselves for the woes and disappointments they've experienced, there comes a point where they need to take a long hard look at their own part in it. Rule of thumb suggests it's impossible for everyone OTHER than Jeremy to be the bad guys. I know you won't take another look, but if you COULD see it from both sides? I guess it's not possible.
-
Any attacks in a place that's supposed to be protected is unacceptable. Shouldn't you be asking how it happened and why it was allowed to happen ?
Hang on! I thought you were an advocate of rough justice and people getting what's coming to them?
-
Lookout, you are negative about every player in this tragedy who isn't Jeremy -possibly it's the only way you can keep up the myth of his innocence?- and rather like people who blame everyone other than themselves for the woes and disappointments they've experienced, there comes a point where they need to take a long hard look at their own part in it. Rule of thumb suggests it's impossible for everyone OTHER than Jeremy to be the bad guys. I know you won't take another look, but if you COULD see it from both sides? I guess it's not possible.
Can you explain why his innocence is a myth ? Do you honestly see yourself a cut above those who are working behind the scenes on his case ? Thought so. Self-opinionated,completely biased/blinkered.
It's got damn all to do with you or anyone else that I won't shift my views.
-
Can you explain why his innocence is a myth ? Do you honestly see yourself a cut above those who are working behind the scenes on his case ? Thought so. Self-opinionated,completely biased/blinkered.
It's got damn all to do with you or anyone else that I won't shift my views.
Hey! You're describing yourself!! Why, on the grounds that I disagree -with anyone/thing- would I see myself as being a cut above, yet you have branded me as such without allowing me to address it? Self opinionated? Certainly, but doesn't that describe you? Biased/blinkered? No, that's not mine............but it's definitely yours, and is why it's impossible for you to change your views.
-
Any attacks in a place that's supposed to be protected is unacceptable. Shouldn't you be asking how it happened and why it was allowed to happen ?
Yesterday you said they were fair game!
For goodness sake. Two monsters have been jailed for 30 odd years each------does it matter if they get what will come to them ? No, because their poor victims having already suffered more than half their lives will be affected for the rest of them,with flashbacks.
Both evil characters who don't deserve to live----or better still,what you DON'T advocate and that's to be forever in fear of being lynched for the next 30 years.
-
Yesterday you said they were fair game!
Towards the right person would have made a difference.!
-
Towards the right person would have made a difference.!
Almost anyone, but not Jeremy, then?
-
Towards the right person would have made a difference.!
The way society is today is one which is totally lawless and getting worse,so in whatever situation I'm always relieved/glad when a criminal gets their comeuppance one way or another.
Successive Governments have tied the hands of the police and also schoolteachers,made worse by the PC brigade. Hence all the feral children who grow up into criminals and criminals getting away with multitudes of crimes. Then the powers that be reduce policing ? ::) When crime is at its highest.
I don't see that any changes will ever be made until we revert back to discipline in the home/schools and other institutions and proper punishments fit the crimes that are carried out.
Pick up a newspaper every day and you'll see murders and sexual assaults rapes and robberies-DAILY !
The harm done against children is heartbreaking both in school and out and being a mother,grandmother and great-grandmother I'm constantly on the alert in case one of the children falls victim to some pervert. I'm not the only one who lives like this as people like myself never saw/heard the sort of sickness that goes on with babies or children and these perpetrators deserve all they get. Non-mothers wouldn't understand. Old as I am I'd willingly stand in for the over-worked police !!
-
The way society is today is one which is totally lawless and getting worse,so in whatever situation I'm always relieved/glad when a criminal gets their comeuppance one way or another.
Successive Governments have tied the hands of the police and also schoolteachers,made worse by the PC brigade. Hence all the feral children who grow up into criminals and criminals getting away with multitudes of crimes. Then the powers that be reduce policing ? ::) When crime is at its highest.
I don't see that any changes will ever be made until we revert back to discipline in the home/schools and other institutions and proper punishments fit the crimes that are carried out.
Pick up a newspaper every day and you'll see murders and sexual assaults rapes and robberies-DAILY !
The harm done against children is heartbreaking both in school and out and being a mother,grandmother and great-grandmother I'm constantly on the alert in case one of the children falls victim to some pervert. I'm not the only one who lives like this as people like myself never saw/heard the sort of sickness that goes on with babies or children and these perpetrators deserve all they get. Non-mothers wouldn't understand. Old as I am I'd willingly stand in for the over-worked police !!
I concur with much of what you say, although I'm not sure that I share your pessimism about it being solely today's problem -in Victorian times, new-borns were taken from their unwed mothers for the sexual gratification of 'gentlemen' with special needs- however, is it not possible for you to rein in your spitefulness for one moment?
I imagine you're now feeling insulted and wondering what I'm talking about? Did it NEVER cross your mind what a spiteful and cruel comment was "Non-mothers wouldn't understand". Perhaps you'd like to clarify exactly what sort of "non-mother" you're referring to. There are those who are "non-mothers" by choice. There are also those who have "non-motherness" thrust on them, for various reasons, through no fault of their own. What give you the right to judge whether or not they understand? I'd prefer to think it was just another case of your habit of making sweeping statements and opening your mouth before you put your brain in gear, but I have my doubts. I don't believe there are any here who don't share your distress at what's happening to children.................which includes the experiences which set Thomson and Venebles on their own path to the violent destruction of a toddler's life, but their own, as well.
-
I concur with much of what you say, although I'm not sure that I share your pessimism about it being solely today's problem -in Victorian times, new-borns were taken from their unwed mothers for the sexual gratification of 'gentlemen' with special needs- however, is it not possible for you to rein in your spitefulness for one moment?
I imagine you're now feeling insulted and wondering what I'm talking about? Did it NEVER cross your mind what a spiteful and cruel comment was "Non-mothers wouldn't understand". Perhaps you'd like to clarify exactly what sort of "non-mother" you're referring to. There are those who are "non-mothers" by choice. There are also those who have "non-motherness" thrust on them, for various reasons, through no fault of their own. What give you the right to judge whether or not they understand? I'd prefer to think it was just another case of your habit of making sweeping statements and opening your mouth before you put your brain in gear, but I have my doubts. I don't believe there are any here who don't share your distress at what's happening to children.................which includes the experiences which set Thomson and Venebles on their own path to the violent destruction of a toddler's life, but their own, as well.
Non-mothers also include those who set out to destroy a life,either by murder or other means. What set me off on this track were the two consecutive cases in the paper today of two ( calling themselves mothers ?? ) One who between her partner and herself swung a few week old baby by its legs,so badly they have to be amputated. NO charges were brought against them ?? The second,a woman who'd poisoned her few weeks old child------she was already in prison. It just sickens me when they're referred to as mothers. I should have added them to the list of non-mothers !!
These are horrendous crimes,sickening.
Living singly is what I meant by non-mothers. They can't possibly feel the same as a mother.
-
Non-mothers also include those who set out to destroy a life,either by murder or other means. What set me off on this track were the two consecutive cases in the paper today of two ( calling themselves mothers ?? ) One who between her partner and herself swung a few week old baby by its legs,so badly they have to be amputated. NO charges were brought against them ?? The second,a woman who'd poisoned her few weeks old child------she was already in prison. It just sickens me when they're referred to as mothers. I should have added them to the list of non-mothers !!
These are horrendous crimes,sickening.
Living singly is what I meant by non-mothers. They can't possibly feel the same as a mother.
I will agree that the act of giving birth doesn't necessarily turn women into mothers...............anymore than the inability to give birth necessarily means a woman is devoid of maternal instincts. I don't believe any woman -whatever is her agenda- who damages her child physically or emotionally is entitled to be a mother, but to single out certain members of society as a precaution would be frowned upon.
-
PLEASE COULD TRUDI PHONE ME ASAP ON M:07768878745
I HAVE A MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH.
-
Could it be that mothers are just too tired today after working to support a family that there just isn't enough quality time as a unit, and the shocking influences of modern day mass media fill the void? https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/cornwall-second-poorest-region-northern-617199
-
Could it be that mothers are just too tired today after working to support a family that there just isn't enough quality time as a unit, and the shocking influences of modern day mass media fill the void? https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/cornwall-second-poorest-region-northern-617199
Yes Steve. I'm afraid the inflexible black/white strictures that lookout lays down as the only acceptable code for living would make life extremely difficult for many, and sometimes reveal her as being hard and unsympathetic.
-
Could it be that mothers are just too tired today after working to support a family that there just isn't enough quality time as a unit, and the shocking influences of modern day mass media fill the void? https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/cornwall-second-poorest-region-northern-617199
Steve,as the head teacher of todays Gresham said---" It's a nation of snowflakes ".I can agree with him.
Life in the 60's/70's as a mother was a jolly sight harder in every way in bringing up a family than it is today and it's that hardship which molds you into the person that you are today. It makes you appreciate everything you have and also to face up to whatever life throws at you.
This is the difference in today's expectations.Life is what you make it and it's up to the individual to decide what they do with their lives.
Those who've never experienced real hardship are in no position to judge.
-
Why has this topic been pinned to the top of the forum?
-
Why wasn't JB charged with theft ??
-
Why wasn't JB charged with theft ??
What would the point of that be when he was already facing life in prison for murder? He'd already been charged with theft over the caravan park anyway. Like it or not, he sold the stuff!
-
What would the point of that be when he was already facing life in prison for murder? He'd already been charged with theft over the caravan park anyway. Like it or not, he sold the stuff!
So he sold the stuff,what was the big deal ? Sheesh.
-
So he sold the stuff,what was the big deal ? Sheesh.
Well, you tell me? The fact that you lot have been making excuses and denying it for quite some time shows that you think it is a big deal. When it became obvious that he did sell the stuff, you're trying to play it down.
-
I didn't even " play it up " to play it down. I'd just groused about him not being able to sell his own stuff. I certainly didn't make as big a deal of it as you are doing with everything.
-
I didn't even " play it up " to play it down. I'd just groused about him not being able to sell his own stuff. I certainly didn't make as big a deal of it as you are doing with everything.
Of course not Lookout - you don't 'DO' "making a big deal" :o
-
Of course not Lookout - you don't 'DO' "making a big deal" :o
You're right,I don't.
-
You're right,I don't.
Not much, you don't ::) ::)