Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on December 26, 2017, 10:01:AM
-
This is extremely inappropriate - surely by anybodies standards!!
Letter reads :-
Dear Mrs Eaton,
'I am sorry forgiving such short notice, but I would be very pleased if you would join me for lunch of Friday 21st November at Police Headquarters.
If you agree may I suggest that you arrive at 11.45am so that Deputy Chief Constable Peter Simpson and Detective Chief Superintendent Jim Dickinson can join us for an informal talk before lunch
I look forward to seeing you on Friday'.
Yours Sincerely'.
Robert S Bunyard.
Chief Constable.
-
Right, so let's put things into perspective, Ann Eaton who is at the heart of the SM debacle, is invited to dinner at Police Headquarters to share lunch with the Chief Constable, Mr Bunyard, the Deputy Chief Constable, Peter Simpson and Detective Chief Superintendent Jim Dickinson, less than a month after Jeremy Bamber was convicted because Ann Eaton kept quiet about the SM and other exhibits that she handed over to DC Oakey on the 11th September 1985!
Please, search your conscience, is this something that happens to every victim who s also such a key prosecution witness?
-
Right, so let's put things into perspective, Ann Eaton who is at the heart of the SM debacle, is invited to dinner at Police Headquarters to share lunch with the Chief Constable, Mr Bunyard, the Deputy Chief Constable, Peter Simpson and Detective Chief Superintendent Jim Dickinson, less than a month after Jeremy Bamber was convicted because Ann Eaton kept quiet about the SM and other exhibits that she handed over to DC Oakey on the 11th September 1985!
Please, search your conscience, is this something that happens to every victim who s also such a key prosecution witness?
There is something serious wrong here!
-
No doubt, Ann Eaton did not attend this dinner celebration, paid for at public expense, she no doubt arrived there accompanied by the other motley crew of key prosecution witnesses, her father Robert Woodwis Boutflour, her husband Peter Eaton, and her brother, David Robert Boutflour!
-
No doubt, Ann Eaton did not attend this dinner celebration, paid for at public expense, she no doubt arrived there accompanied by the other motley crew of key prosecution witnesses, her father Robert Woodwis Boutflour, her husband Peter Eaton, and her brother, David Robert Boutflour!
How could Essex police justify wasting public funded cash, being spent on these prosecution witnesses?
Why would the powers that be, go to such lengths?
-
How could Essex police justify wasting public funded cash, being spent on these prosecution witnesses?
Why would the powers that be, go to such lengths?
I wonder what lavish treats were on the menu, and how much it cost the public purse?
-
This reminds me of information that I received back in 2003/2004 to the effect that the relatives bought presents for all the key police officers involved in the successful prosecution of Jeremy Bamber!
Gifts, by Jove...
Now, how revealing and suspicious was / is that?
-
What date, was DCI 'Taff' Jones death occur?
We can see, that his death, in whatever circumstances this might have occured, did not die until 12th May, 1986...
Funny how DCI Jones was never invited to the same dinner celebration...
-
How come, the victims of all major crimes are never invited to Police Headquarters to have lunch with such illustrious Senior police officers of the force responsible for investigating a tragedy such as this one?
-
How come, the victims of all major crimes are never invited to Police Headquarters to have lunch with such illustrious Senior police officers of the force responsible for investigating a tragedy such as this one?
Ann Eaton, the witness who handed over the SM (DRB/1, 22, court album no.9) to DC Oakey on the 11th September, 1985, her husband, Peter Eaton who supposedly handed the same SM over to Stan Jones on the 12th August 1985, a month previously, her father (Robert Woodwis Boutflour) who had the exact same blood groups as Sheila Caffell', her brother David Robert Boutflour who did not contact Essex police by telephone until the 12th September 1985, the day after he sister Ann had handed over 'that' SM to DC Oakey, all enjoying a feast at the expense of the public, no doubt the seal by which such case secrets were supposed to be kept a closely guarded secret!
-
Ann Eaton, the witness who handed over the SM (DRB/1, 22, court album no.9) to DC Oakey on the 11th September, 1985, her husband, Peter Eaton who supposedly handed the same SM over to Stan Jones on the 12th August 1985, a month previously, her father (Robert Woodwis Boutflour) who had the exact same blood groups as Sheila Caffell', her brother David Robert Boutflour who did not contact Essex police by telephone until the 12th September 1985, the day after he sister Ann had handed over 'that' SM to DC Oakey, all enjoying a feast at the expense of the public, no doubt the seal by which such case secrets were supposed to be kept a closely guarded secret!
No Bob Miller, no Ron Cook, no PC Whiddon, no DCI George Harris, no CI Terry Gibbons, no DCI Jones, no DCI Wright, no DCS Mick Ainsley, none of the firearms team, and lastly (for now) no Stan Jones - the cop who obtained a spare pocketbook and who rewrote his pocketbook entries to try and hide the truth in this matter!!!
-
Oh, they lied, they lied, and they lied...
-
And the good lord, did not let their wickedness go unnoticed!
-
This is extremely inappropriate - surely by anybodies standards!!
Letter reads :-
Dear Mrs Eaton,
'I am sorry forgiving such short notice, but I would be very pleased if you would join me for lunch of Friday 21st November at Police Headquarters.
If you agree may I suggest that you arrive at 11.45am so that Deputy Chief Constable Peter Simpson and Detective Chief Superintendent Jim Dickinson can join us for an informal talk before lunch
I look forward to seeing you on Friday'.
Yours Sincerely'.
Robert S Bunyard.
Chief Constable.
I was a bit sceptical when I first heard of this. It is rather disgusting.
But anyway the police think they got conned and with the help of thier guests justice prevailed. When in reality its their guests that have conned them.
If it was not for the grim consequences and the insult this has on those who have died. It would actually be funny. The joke is on EP at the end of the day.
-
This is extremely inappropriate - surely by anybodies standards!!
Letter reads :-
Dear Mrs Eaton,
'I am sorry forgiving such short notice, but I would be very pleased if you would join me for lunch of Friday 21st November at Police Headquarters.
If you agree may I suggest that you arrive at 11.45am so that Deputy Chief Constable Peter Simpson and Detective Chief Superintendent Jim Dickinson can join us for an informal talk before lunch
I look forward to seeing you on Friday'.
Yours Sincerely'.
Robert S Bunyard.
Chief Constable.
The thread title is misleading in the extreme. I feel it should be made clear that it was NOT a "dinner party" -with it's formal connotations- to which the relatives were invited. Formal dinner -3 courses +- would be around 7.30 for 8.00. Less formal would supper -2 course- at around 6/6.30. The relatives were invited to neither of these. They were invited to -what sounds like, given that the word "informal" is included in the invitation- a casual LUNCH.
-
The thread title is misleading in the extreme. I feel it should be made clear that it was NOT a "dinner party" -with it's formal connotations- to which the relatives were invited. Formal dinner -3 courses +- would be around 7.30 for 8.00. Less formal would supper -2 course- at around 6/6.30. The relatives were invited to neither of these. They were invited to -what sounds like, given that the word "informal" is included in the invitation- a casual LUNCH.
They were invited to have a meal with the hob knobs, you can paint it how you want to, this hardly ever happens to victims of crime! The relatives became beneficiaries after they helped Essex police to convict him...
It's disgusting!!
-
They were invited to have a meal with the hob knobs, you can paint it how you want to, this hardly ever happens to victims of crime! The relatives became beneficiaries after they helped Essex police to convict him...
It's disgusting!!
"Hardly ever happens" is crucial. What it means is that it isn't actually a unique situation. Certainly, their conviction that Jeremy was capable of such an act probably helped to convince the police of his guilt. I can't imagine that they wouldn't have been grateful for it, especially in the light of the Diana Jones case, however, given that they already had a conveniently dead culprit who couldn't argue with them, unless they were 100% convinced of Jeremy's guilt, they were rather going out on a limb to try to convict him. The other alternative -given their conviction of his guilt- was to reason that they HAD to let him go free because if he were to be convicted his relatives would end up getting his inheritance, which might bring their own integrity into question.
-
"Hardly ever happens" is crucial. What it means is that it isn't actually a unique situation. Certainly, their conviction that Jeremy was capable of such an act probably helped to convince the police of his guilt. I can't imagine that they wouldn't have been grateful for it, especially in the light of the Diana Jones case, however, given that they already had a conveniently dead culprit who couldn't argue with them, unless they were 100% convinced of Jeremy's guilt, they were rather going out on a limb to try to convict him. The other alternative -given their conviction of his guilt- was to reason that they HAD to let him go free because if he were to be convicted his relatives would end up getting his inheritance, which might bring their own integrity into question.
Noble cause corruption is still corruption, the lot of 'em framed Jeremy Bamber for these murders by going out of their ways to prove that Sheila had not shot herself!
Of course she hadn't and didn't shoot herself, the non disclosed witness statement of PC Mildenhall confirms who shot her in the kitchen! Not only that but the rifle she was shot with in the kitchen, was also captured in one of the crime scene photographs taken in the kitchen! We now know what DS Davidson was talking about when he was being interviewed by COLP when he told them that the reason why Ron Cook had taken the paint sample (RC/1) from the kitchen aga and given it to him at the scene on 8th August 1985, was because some paint had been found to be present on the end of 'that' guns barrel! 'That' guns barrel, was obviously the gun captured in one of the crime scene photographs which everyone was aware not to comment upon!
But...
I am asking about 'that' rifle!
I want to know all about it?
I want to know who it belonged to?
I want to know if 'that' gun was the gun used in the shooting incident which occured in the kitchen when officers first entered there, as mentioned in the 'officers report (1612, refers)?
What happened to 'that' rifle?
Who took it away?
Don't worry I will never let this matter rest until we get to the bottom of this!
Maybe, that's what the lunch invitation was all about, it was a sort of 'lets clear the air' sort of a meeting over lunch! Ok, 'you know we shot Sheila, but now that we have got Jeremy convicted of killing her, let's forget our differences', 'you got what you wanted and we get to keep what really happened to Sheila a little secret that nobody needs to know anything at all about'...
-
Noble cause corruption is still corruption, the lot of 'em framed Jeremy Bamber for these murders by going out of their ways to prove that Sheila had not shot herself!
Of course she hadn't and didn't shoot herself, the non disclosed witness statement of PC Mildenhall confirms who shot her in the kitchen! Not only that but the rifle she was shot with in the kitchen, was also captured in one of the crime scene photographs taken in the kitchen! We now know what DS Davidson was talking about when he was being interviewed by COLP when he told them that the reason why Ron Cook had taken the paint sample (RC/1) from the kitchen aga and given it to him at the scene on 8th August 1985, was because some paint had been found to be present on the end of 'that' guns barrel! 'That' guns barrel, was obviously the gun captured in one of the crime scene photographs which everyone was aware not to comment upon!
But...
I am asking about 'that' rifle!
I want to know all about it?
I want to know who it belonged to?
I want to know if 'that' gun was the gun used in the shooting incident which occured in the kitchen when officers first entered there, as mentioned in the 'officers report (1612, refers)?
What happened to 'that' rifle?
Who took it away?
Don't worry I will never let this matter rest until we get to the bottom of this!
Maybe, that's what the lunch invitation was all about, it was a sort of 'lets clear the air' sort of a meeting over lunch! Ok, 'you know we shot Sheila, but now that we have got Jeremy convicted of killing her, let's forget our differences', 'you got what you wanted and we get to keep what really happened to Sheila a little secret that nobody needs to know anything at all about'...
'WOULD YOU LIKE ANOTHER CUP OF COFFEE, MRS EATON'?
-
'WOULD YOU LIKE ANOTHER CUP OF COFFEE, MRS EATON'?
'OH, AND NO-ONE MUST EVER FIND OUT THAT YOU HANDED OVER THAT SILENCER TO DC OAKEY ON THE 11th SEPTEMBER, NOW DO THEY'?
-
non disclosed witness statement of PC Mildenhall confirms who shot her in the kitchen!
How can you possibly know that if it has not been disclosed?
furthermore you not explained the problems with Sheila's wounds not corresponding to the ammunition used by the police.
-
'OH, AND NO-ONE MUST EVER FIND OUT THAT YOU HANDED OVER THAT SILENCER TO DC OAKEY ON THE 11th SEPTEMBER, NOW DO THEY'?
Noble cause corruption doesn't do it for me, it's still corruption, it's still committing a criminal offence, and nobody should be convicted of anything where noble cause corruption has been such an obvious feature in the proceedings...
-
Noble cause corruption is still corruption, the lot of 'em framed Jeremy Bamber for these murders by going out of their ways to prove that Sheila had not shot herself!
I guess what you're saying is this, it's of no relevance that Jeremy is actually guilty -the non forensic evidence about him is very similar to the equally non forensic evidence about Sheila- if just ONE incorrect 'fact' is put forward, eg he got in through a door when he ACTUALLY got in through a window, that he got in is no longer considered, ergo he must be innocent?....................I have to ask this, Mike, but would you be happy to see those who you say have done so much damage to you and your family life walk away scott free? Would you rage against their conviction if you believed noble cause conviction had helped to bring it about, OR would you feel satisfied that, however it had been orchestrated, they'd got their just desserts?
-
How can you possibly know that if it has not been disclosed?
furthermore you not explained the problems with Sheila's wounds not corresponding to the ammunition used by the police.
How can you possibly know what I don't or do know?
There's lots and lots of things that I know about this investigation that you and the others don't know!
But, I can assure you (for now) that PC Mildenhall did make a witness statement, which the DPP and police officers decided that it should not be used, and not disclosed to the defence! Now, why would that be?
As for I don't know anything about the wounds? Well, how do you know what I don't or do know?
I know more than you think...
I know that the gap between the lower and the upper wounds in Sheila's neck, is the key evidence which helps to confirm that with the SM fitted to the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel, that the lower wound could not have been inflicted using the anshuzt rifle with its SM because it was too long! It was a shorter weapon which fired that shot across the neck downstairs in the kitchen. PC Mildenhalls witness statement reveals all, how do you know if I haven't seen it, or if I have?
I saw crime scene photographs at Ewen Smith's offices in Birmingham which the CCRC loaned him, photographs the defence had never been given access to before! So, I have seen material that is officially still being withheld under pii, or without pii on the pretense that it's been destroyed, or is lost, and missing!
Leave me alone to do what I do best, no need to start barking orders at me like Jeremy tried to do to me - I will decide what I do, not Jeremy Bamber, nor you, or anybody else!
-
How can you possibly know what I don't or do know?
There's lots and lots of things that I know about this investigation that you and the others don't know!
But, I can assure you (for now) that PC Mildenhall did make a witness statement, which the DPP and police officers decided that it should not be used, and not disclosed to the defence! Now, why would that be?
As for I don't know anything about the wounds? Well, how do you know what I don't or do know?
I know more than you think...
I know that the gap between the lower and the upper wounds in Sheila's neck, is the key evidence which helps to confirm that with the SM fitted to the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel, that the lower wound could not have been inflicted using the anshuzt rifle with its SM because it was too long! It was a shorter weapon which fired that shot across the neck downstairs in the kitchen. PC Mildenhalls witness statement reveals all, how do you know if I haven't seen it, or if I have?
I saw crime scene photographs at Ewen Smith's offices in Birmingham which the CCRC loaned him, photographs the defence had never been given access to before! So, I have seen material that is officially still being withheld under pii, or without pii on the pretense that it's been destroyed, or is lost, and missing!
Leave me alone to do what I do best, no need to start barking orders at me like Jeremy tried to do to me - I will decide what I do, not Jeremy Bamber, nor you, or anybody else!
If it's the case that you know far more/have seen much more regarding this case than you're prepared to share with us, it would appear to be somewhat irregular to say that you're still searching for the truth. It does, however, from your last paragraph, sound as if you're very angry at Jeremy, and almost as if you want revenge. Surely I've got that wrong?
-
I guess what you're saying is this, it's of no relevance that Jeremy is actually guilty -the non forensic evidence about him is very similar to the equally non forensic evidence about Sheila- if just ONE incorrect 'fact' is put forward, eg he got in through a door when he ACTUALLY got in through a window, that he got in is no longer considered, ergo he must be innocent?....................I have to ask this, Mike, but would you be happy to see those who you say have done so much damage to you and your family life walk away scott free? Would you rage against their conviction if you believed noble cause conviction had helped to bring it about, OR would you feel satisfied that, however it had been orchestrated, they'd got their just desserts?
It wasn't a case of Jeremy entering the farmhouse at all, be it through a window or a door! He did not shoot any of the four victims who were probably dead by the time the first group of firearm officers arrived at the scene by 5am sharp! As for Sheila's death, well she was still alive at the time the raid team started to smash the farmhouse door in with a sledgehammer! You should really try to pay attention to the detail, which is contained in the police radio message logs and elsewhere as part of the first police file (SC/688/85) when cops had settled for presenting the case as being one of four murders and a suicide which they intended to process through the Coroner's court system, not the Criminal court system! Two bodies downstairs between 7.35am and 8.10am, and the other three bodies upstairs after 8.10am! But for the persistence of the relatives who rightly suspected foul play in the way police reported the tragedy, there would never have been any need to include the presence later on of Sheila's body upstairs in the main bedroom! The evidence that something untoward took place when the raid team entered the kitchen, can be found in the various police messages that were being passed around and banded about between 7.35am and 8.10am...
The officers report (1612, refers) deals with a shooting incident which occured when cops first entered the kitchen (believe it, or not)...
The presence of a rifle in one of the crime scene photographs that no-one was to comment about!
DS Davidson talking about a guns barrel having paint on the end of its barrel that was found downstairs, which he said was not a reference to a silencer!
A piece of badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) which grew into a WHOLE bullet in between 7th August 1985 and the 20th September 1985!
Sheila only having a single bullet entry hole in her neck at a crucial stage of the events!
It's all there, more than enough to show that cops and relatives have framed Jeremy Bamber for these murders, all five of them by proving by a reliance on fake evidence that he must have killed his sister, because she couldn't have shot and killed herself! Of course, I know that she didn't shoot herself, she couldn't have shot herself the first time with the anshuzt rifle with its SM attached on the end of its barrel because it was too long to have been used by herself to inflict that lower neck wound! Insofar as the upper wound, it was technically possible for Sheila to have inflicted that shot (but she didn't) because even with the SM fitted to the barrel of the anshuzt rifle, it was still possible, the gap from the trigger of the gun (when activated) to the position of the upper wound beneath the point of the chin, was the same as if Sheila had shot herself - but this comes about because cops were performing a training exercise which involved trying to make the longer anshuzt rifle with SM fit the gap between the trigger and the lower wound in Sheila's neck! It was impossible, the cops couldn't make it fit, the gap was too small! It was whilst they were trying to force the weapon to fit into that smaller gap, that Sheila's finger was moved and it activated the trigger plunging the fatal bullet (PV/19) up through her mouth into her brain, the gap between the trigger and the upper wound in her neck had been inflicted by the anshuzt rifle and SM...
-
PC Mildenhalls witness statement reveals all, how do you know if I haven't seen it, or if I have?
I know PC Mildenhall did not shoot Sheila downstairs or anywhere for that matter. Reasons being -
1. A shot from a Ruger Mini-14 would be far more catastrophic than those seen on Sheila. Such a shot would not fragment and stop at the vertebre. It would pass straight through the neck.
2. There is no blood trail leading from downstairs to upstairs consisting of Sheila's blood.
If you have seen such a statement its a forgery.
Leave me alone to do what I do best, no need to start barking orders at me like Jeremy tried to do to me - I will decide what I do, not Jeremy Bamber, nor you, or anybody else!
You can do as you wish. But instead of pursuing fanciful and non-viable theories simply because you like the idea is doing Jeremy no favours. I would recommend you go along with the actual facts of the case instead.
-
If it's the case that you know far more/have seen much more regarding this case than you're prepared to share with us, it would appear to be somewhat irregular to say that you're still searching for the truth. It does, however, from your last paragraph, sound as if you're very angry at Jeremy, and almost as if you want revenge. Surely I've got that wrong?
I have never said that I will not share everything that I know or have seen or what I have got access to...
Anger is destructive, I am not angry with Jeremy, he has to do things his way, just like I have to do things my way...
We will see in due course whether his way of dealing with the evidence, works for him!
-
It wasn't a case of Jeremy entering the farmhouse at all, be it through a window or a door! He did not shoot any of the four victims who were probably dead by the time the first group of firearm officers arrived at the scene by 5am sharp! As for Sheila's death, well she was still alive at the time the raid team started to smash the farmhouse door in with a sledgehammer! You should really try to pay attention to the detail, which is contained in the police radio message logs and elsewhere as part of the first police file (SC/688/85) when cops had settled for presenting the case as being one of four murders and a suicide which they intended to process through the Coroner's court system, not the Criminal court system! Two bodies downstairs between 7.35am and 8.10am, and the other three bodies upstairs after 8.10am! But for the persistence of the relatives who rightly suspected foul play in the way police reported the tragedy, there would never have been any need to include the presence later on of Sheila's body upstairs in the main bedroom! The evidence that something untoward took place when the raid team entered the kitchen, can be found in the various police messages that were being passed around and banded about between 7.35am and 8.10am...
The officers report (1612, refers) deals with a shooting incident which occured when cops first entered the kitchen (believe it, or not)...
The presence of a rifle in one of the crime scene photographs that no-one was to comment about!
DS Davidson talking about a guns barrel having paint on the end of its barrel that was found downstairs, which he said was not a reference to a silencer!
A piece of badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) which grew into a WHOLE bullet in between 7th August 1985 and the 20th September 1985!
Sheila only having a single bullet entry hole in her neck at a crucial stage of the events!
It's all there, more than enough to show that cops and relatives have framed Jeremy Bamber for these murders, all five of them by proving by a reliance on fake evidence that he must have killed his sister, because she couldn't have shot and killed herself! Of course, I know that she didn't shoot herself, she couldn't have shot herself the first time with the anshuzt rifle with its SM attached on the end of its barrel because it was too long to have been used by herself to inflict that lower neck wound! Insofar as the upper wound, it was technically possible for Sheila to have inflicted that shot (but she didn't) because even with the SM fitted to the barrel of the anshuzt rifle, it was still possible, the gap from the trigger of the gun (when activated) to the position of the upper wound beneath the point of the chin, was the same as if Sheila had shot herself - but this comes about because cops were performing a training exercise which involved trying to make the longer anshuzt rifle with SM fit the gap between the trigger and the lower wound in Sheila's neck! It was impossible, the cops couldn't make it fit, the gap was too small! It was whilst they were trying to force the weapon to fit into that smaller gap, that Sheila's finger was moved and it activated the trigger plunging the fatal bullet (PV/19) up through her mouth into her brain, the gap between the trigger and the upper wound in her neck had been inflicted by the anshuzt rifle and SM...
Mike, you often go to great lengths to answer questions which haven't been asked or points which haven't been raised...................or possibly to avoid answering questions which HAVE been asked or points which HAVE been raised. The above post being an example of such. You suggest I might "try to pay more attention to detail". It's the details which are left out which deserve attention. THEY'RE of far greater interest to me.
-
I know PC Mildenhall did not shoot Sheila downstairs or anywhere for that matter. Reasons being -
1. A shot from a Ruger Mini-14 would be far more catastrophic than those seen on Sheila. Such a shot would not fragment and stop at the vertebre. It would pass straight through the neck.
2. There is no blood trail leading from downstairs to upstairs consisting of Sheila's blood.
If you have seen such a statement its a forgery.
You can do as you wish. But instead of pursuing fanciful and non-viable theories simply because you like the idea is doing Jeremy no favours. I would recommend you go along with the actual facts of the case instead.
I never said PC Mildenhall shot Sheila (that's the first thing)...
The officers report (1612, refers) deals with that shooting incident in the kitchen when PS Woodcock entered the kitchen! PC Mildenhall was monitoring the 999 call when the shooting incident in the kitchen occurred! There were two bodies reported as present downstairs in the kitchen (not one body described as two different bodies)! There were only three bodies found upstairs by 8.10am..
I'm not bothered what you say about the damage a bullet fired via a Ruger mini - 14 would cause, all I'm concerned with is that a piece of badly fragmented bullet (PV/14) grew into a WHOLE bullet by 20th September 1985..
There wouldn't necessarily have been a blood trail as you put it, from downstairs to upstairs, since after being shot downstairs in the kitchen, Sheila collapsed onto the kitchen floor which convinced the police that she had died! She was laid there on the kitchen floor for a good half an hour before regaining consciousness, and making her way upstairs to the main bedroom, she used the spiral stairs in the corner of the kitchen. She was stood upright when she got shot across the neck downstairs in the kitchen, hence why you see a very front vertically inclined blood trail in her neck going downward toward the collar of her nightdress! The fatal shot under the chin was inflicted during a bungled training exercise at 9.13am when cops placed the anshuzt rifle with Sheila's body, whilst her body was laid on its back on the bedroom floor, she was therefore laid down when the second shot got inflicted. The gap between the lower wound and the upper wound in Sheila's neck, provides the source for the prosecution knowing that the anshuzt rifle with SM fitted to its barrel was too long for it to have been used to self-inflict the shot against the neck! However, the anshuzt rifle was used with a SM fitted to its barrel when the shot under the chin (the so called upper wound in her neck) was inflicted - in a nutshell, the anshuzt rifle with SM could not have fired the original PV/20 bullet across Sheila's neck!
I don't need you telling me to go along with the facts, or you telling me what's best for Jeremy, I know what the facts are, and the fact is that Sheila could not possibly have shot herself with the anshuzt rifle and SM because the gap between trigger and lower entry wound in her neck was too small for that weapon to have been used as Jeremy and his team are advocating! Sheila didn't shoot herself and that's a fact, and that's the truth! Let Jeremy and his followers believe what they like, but they will never be able to prove that Sheila had shot herself, because she hadn't and she didn't, and she couldn't have!
The only hope Jeremy has got is to go with the truth - the truth is that somebody else shot Sheila across the neck whilst she was present downstairs in the kitchen. The gun which fired the shot across the neck of Sheila was not the anshuzt rifle with a SM fitted to its barrel! There exists an officers report which details that shooting incident in the kitchen, Jeremy would do well to request access to this officers report!I know it's currently being withheld under pii, but he can force the authorities to hand it over providing he can prove that it's contents are pivotal to the integrity of his convictions being wrong! He cannot request to see it's contents on a fishing expedition, he has to say exactly why he needs access to that report, which would be that it would prove beyond doubt that he had not shot his sister, and that he had not staged her death scene upstairs on the main bedroom floor, because the contents of this officers report outline how he (PS Woodcock) shot Sheila in that shooting incident in the kitchen as he was entering the kitchen!
I will continue to do as I like, you don't tell me what to do please, I don't tell you what to do, and if you can't say anything constructive to what I say in my posts why not simply stop reading them!
Good luck with trying to prove that Sheila shot herself twice using the same gun, when she couldn't have!
-
Mike, you often go to great lengths to answer questions which haven't been asked or points which haven't been raised...................or possibly to avoid answering questions which HAVE been asked or points which HAVE been raised. The above post being an example of such. You suggest I might "try to pay more attention to detail". It's the details which are left out which deserve attention. THEY'RE of far greater interest to me.
And, so they should be...
These are the facts from where I sit regarding the preposterous claim that Sheila could have shot herself twice with the same rifle and SM in the main bedroom! If you believe that she did then your not thinking straight! She couldn't have shot herself twice using the same rifle with SM fitted, because the gap between the trigger and the position of the lower wound in Sheila's neck was smaller than the gap between the trigger and the muzzle end of the SM fitted to the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel!
It's an impossible scenario that Jeremy and his team are trying to prove occured or happened, he's got his work cut out trying to prove something which cannot possibly be true! Sheila didn't shoot herself, not once, not twice!
As for PC Mildenhall never having made a witness statement regarding his duties of listening and monitoring a 999 call from whf, Mildenhall did make such a witness statement, there is reference to this fact, and to the fact that the DPP and senior officers did not want his statement in as part of the prosecution's case! I have already posted confirmation of this recently but to date no-one else has picked up on this fact! I can't be held accountable for everybody's thought processes, people either pick up on something I am saying, or posting, or they don't...
-
And, so they should be...
These are the facts from where I sit regarding the preposterous claim that Sheila could have shot herself twice with the same rifle and SM in the main bedroom! If you believe that she did then your not thinking straight! She couldn't have shot herself twice using the same rifle with SM fitted, because the gap between the trigger and the position of the lower wound in Sheila's neck was smaller than the gap between the trigger and the muzzle end of the SM fitted to the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel!
It's an impossible scenario that Jeremy and his team are trying to prove occured or happened, he's got his work cut out trying to prove something which cannot possibly be true! Sheila didn't shoot herself, not once, not twice!
As for PC Mildenhall never having made a witness statement regarding his duties of listening and monitoring a 999 call from whf, Mildenhall did make such a witness statement, there is reference to this fact, and to the fact that the DPP and senior officers did not want his statement in as part of the prosecution's case! I have already posted confirmation of this recently but to date no-one else has picked up on this fact! I can't be held accountable for everybody's thought processes, people either pick up on something I am saying, or posting, or they don't...
The SM was not on the gun at all. This can be demonstrated by the contact wound to Sheila's neck.
Contact wounds from a .22 not a Ruger Mini-14. The only one trying to prove something that is not true is you.
-
The SM was not on the gun at all. This can be demonstrated by the contact wound to Sheila's neck.
Contact wounds from a .22 not a Ruger Mini-14. The only one trying to prove something that is not true is you.
According to the evidence which convicted Jeremy the Silencer as you put it was fitted to the end of the guns barrel!
Which facts would you like me to adopt so that this case can be solved?
-
Mike. Lets compare the power of the ammunition in Sheila's rifle (.22lr ) to that in of the ammunition in Mildenhalls rifle (.223)
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HospitablePalatableKillerwhale-size_restricted.gif)
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WillingFirstDiamondbackrattlesnake-size_restricted.gif)
Had Sheila been shot with the .223 the crime scene photos will look very different. And she will certainly not survive one shot to the neck. It would almost take her head off.
By no stretch of the imagination did any of the weapons used by the police get fired on Sheila.
-
According to the evidence which convicted Jeremy the Silencer as you put it was fitted to the end of the guns barrel!
Which facts would you like me to adopt so that this case can be solved?
It was Rivlins defence strategy that convicted Jeremy. Not facts.
-
It was Rivlins defence strategy that convicted Jeremy. Not facts.
I am not disputing that...
-
Mike. Lets compare the power of the ammunition in Sheila's rifle (.22lr ) to that in of the ammunition in Mildenhalls rifle (.223)
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HospitablePalatableKillerwhale-size_restricted.gif)
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WillingFirstDiamondbackrattlesnake-size_restricted.gif)
Had Sheila been shot with the .223 the crime scene photos will look very different. And she will certainly not survive one shot to the neck. It would almost take her head off.
By no stretch of the imagination did any of the weapons used by the police get fired on Sheila.
I have never said Mildenhall shot Sheila with any gun!
-
The illustration does not impress me...
-
The illustration does not impress me...
They are melons being shot at with the same ammunition used in this case. I think it perfectly demonstrates the relevant power of both bullets.
As the melon shot with a .223 demonstrates. The damage it inflicts is catastrophic. It is in no way consistent with the wounds inflicted on Sheila.
-
And, so they should be...
These are the facts from where I sit regarding the preposterous claim that Sheila could have shot herself twice with the same rifle and SM in the main bedroom! If you believe that she did then your not thinking straight! She couldn't have shot herself twice using the same rifle with SM fitted, because the gap between the trigger and the position of the lower wound in Sheila's neck was smaller than the gap between the trigger and the muzzle end of the SM fitted to the end of the anshuzt rifles barrel!
It's an impossible scenario that Jeremy and his team are trying to prove occured or happened, he's got his work cut out trying to prove something which cannot possibly be true! Sheila didn't shoot herself, not once, not twice!
As for PC Mildenhall never having made a witness statement regarding his duties of listening and monitoring a 999 call from whf, Mildenhall did make such a witness statement, there is reference to this fact, and to the fact that the DPP and senior officers did not want his statement in as part of the prosecution's case! I have already posted confirmation of this recently but to date no-one else has picked up on this fact! I can't be held accountable for everybody's thought processes, people either pick up on something I am saying, or posting, or they don't...
Having asked ME to pay attention, you seem not to have followed your own advice. I have never believed Sheila shot herself twice -although there was once a time, prior to knowing about a second shot, when I was prepared to believe she shot herself- but I believe Jeremy did. The more convoluted, fantastic and outrageous become your explanations of how he didn't but OTHERS did, the more convinced I am that Jeremy did.
In response to your comment that no one has picked up on your posted confirmation(s). A few possible explanations.
A) It's Christmas
B) It's become too wordy/convoluted
C) They don't believe the "confirmation"
D) They don't believe your version of events per se
-
Having asked ME to pay attention, you seem not to have followed your own advice. I have never believed Sheila shot herself twice -although there was once a time, prior to knowing about a second shot, when I was prepared to believe she shot herself- but I believe Jeremy did.
Jane J there are many posts on here from the past where it has been put to you that Sheila was shot twice. You have responded to those posts and continued to express your belief of Jeremy's innocence after you replied to those posts.
So either you are being dishonest or you are suffering from dementia.
-
Having asked ME to pay attention, you seem not to have followed your own advice. I have never believed Sheila shot herself twice -although there was once a time, prior to knowing about a second shot, when I was prepared to believe she shot herself- but I believe Jeremy did. The more convoluted, fantastic and outrageous become your explanations of how he didn't but OTHERS did, the more convinced I am that Jeremy did.
In response to your comment that no one has picked up on your posted confirmation(s). A few possible explanations.
A) It's Christmas
B) It's become too wordy/convoluted
C) They don't believe the "confirmation"
D) They don't believe your version of events per se
It does not concern me what others believe regarding what I have to say, all that concerns me is that I believe what I say, because it is the truth. You could say that I don't believe what others are saying about this or that, people are entitled to believe what they want to believe! Evidence exists to support my views on the various features of and in the case!..
People should stop visiting my posts if they don't believe there could be some truth in what I have to say!
-
Jane J there are many posts on here from the past where it has been put to you that Sheila was shot twice. You have responded those posts and continued to express your belief of Jeremy's innocence after you replied to those posts.
So either you are being dishonest or you are suffering from dementia.
There was a time when you were convinced of Jeremy's guilt but you do your damnedest not to own it now by trying to divert attention onto others. YES! I once believed Jeremy was innocent. I probably WANTED him to be innocent, and still did up to the time when it started to gnaw at me that he wasn't. The only person I was being dishonest to was myself.
-
Jeremy was such a clever killer that he even fooled police into recording two different police files, one where it was four murders and a suicide, the other when it was five murders!
-
It does not concern me what others believe regarding what I have to say, all that concerns me is that I believe what I say, because it is the truth. You could say that I don't believe what others are saying about this or that, people are entitled to believe what they want to believe! Evidence exists to support my views on the various features of and in the case!..
People should stop visiting my posts if they don't believe there could be some truth in what I have to say!
Given that 'truths' have a habit of contradicting each other it would be impossible to believe them all. Are you saying that each 'truth' was only believed to be 'true' at the time it was posted. Simply saying "evidence exists to support" isn't saying evidence exists to verify correctness. Clicking on a post isn't verification of belief.................only curiosity.
-
Jeremy was such a clever killer that he even fooled police into recording two different police files, one where it was four murders and a suicide, the other when it was five murders!
He was such a devious and cunning murderer that he fooled cops into making police radio logs containing information that there were two bodies downstairs from 7.35am, onward, and that there had only been three bodies upstairs by 8.10am! He also paved the way for cops to try and take the matter through the Coroner's court system, as a case of four murders and a suicide! So devious and cunning was Jeremy that he even got the cops editing and taking other people's witness statement contents, he got them to change exhibit references of key exhibits, and he even was able to make the cops tamper with the bodies of victims and create a false photographic schedule!
-
Jeremy was such a clever killer that he even fooled police into recording two different police files, one where it was four murders and a suicide, the other when it was five murders!
He was, indeed. He planned it well. The police believed everything he told them. He NEARLY got away with it...........but he reckoned without the intervention and suspicions of his relatives.
-
He was, indeed. He planned it well. The police believed everything he told them. He NEARLY got away with it...........but he reckoned without the intervention and suspicions of his relatives.
Jeremy Bamber didn't shoot or kill anyone, he had no way of influencing the police in the things they got up to and did! He didn't force them to pass key police radio messages, or get them to bring a rifle from the box room window and place it with Sheila's body later on and stage his sister's death scene on the bedroom floor! These coppers knew exactly what they have done, they tried to pull the wool over everybody's eyes, including the relatives about where Sheila's body was confronted by the raid team at point of first contact - cops say Sheila was downstairs, they said it and it was recorded by them that hers must have been the female body downstairs in the kitchen described as a suicide by 7.45am! You can all pretend to ignore the glaring facts that Sheila's body was downstairs in the kitchen all you like, but she was there alright, and her body was described as being there in addition to Neville Bambers body, not as a replacement for it, or if it! But for Stan Jones and Mick Clark's blabbing about Sheila's and June's bodies being laid side by side on top of the bed when found, the case would almost certainly been treated as four murders and a suicide, with the victims bodies being found as per the police radio log contents as part of the first police file, SC/688/85, that is Neville and Sheila's bodies downstairs in the kitchen, June's body upstairs in the main bedroom, and the two child victims in bed in a separate bedroom!
-
Jeremy Bamber didn't shoot or kill anyone, he had no way of influencing the police in the things they got up to and did! He didn't force them to pass key police radio messages, or get them to bring a rifle from the box room window and place it with Sheila's body later on and stage his sister's death scene on the bedroom floor! These coppers knew exactly what they have done, they tried to pull the wool over everybody's eyes, including the relatives about where Sheila's body was confronted by the raid team at point of first contact - cops say Sheila was downstairs, they said it and it was recorded by them that hers must have been the female body downstairs in the kitchen described as a suicide by 7.45am! You can all pretend to ignore the glaring facts that Sheila's body was downstairs in the kitchen all you like, but she was there alright, and her body was described as being there in addition to Neville Bambers body, not as a replacement for it, or if it! But for Stan Jones and Mick Clark's blabbing about Sheila's and June's bodies being laid side by side on top of the bed when found, the case would almost certainly been treated as four murders and a suicide, with the victims bodies being found as per the police radio log contents as part of the first police file, SC/688/85, that is Neville and Sheila's bodies downstairs in the kitchen, June's body upstairs in the main bedroom, and the two child victims in bed in a separate bedroom!
Well you may think it would have been perfectly correct for police to tell relatives the full gory details of how the bodies were found. I, however, believe it was correct, kinder and perfectly understandable that they gave them a sanitized version of that horrifying scene. I'm inclined to want to wait until the police person you claim to be responsible for Sheila's death, publicly admits to it before I believe ANY police person to have been responsible.
-
Well you may think it would have been perfectly correct for police to tell relatives the full gory details of how the bodies were found. I, however, believe it was correct, kinder and perfectly understandable that they gave them a sanitized version of that horrifying scene. I'm inclined to want to wait until the police person you claim to be responsible for Sheila's death, publicly admits to it before I believe ANY police person to have been responsible.
Well, you won't have to wait long, hopefully!
Two bodies downstairs between 7.35am and 8.10am (police file SC/688/85), the other three bodies found upstairs (police file SC/688/85) - cops intended to rush this investigation (four murders, and a suicide) through the Coroner's court system, to hide their culpability in the overhaul handling of the seige /tragedy!
In the other version of events, only one body downstairs between whenever, and whenever, and four bodies found upstairs, by whenever (Police file SC/786/85), the case the cops ran with through the Criminal court system!
But for the slip of the tongue by Stan Jones and Mick Clark's in the company of Ann Eaton and others at Jeremy's cottage, the latter case (SC/786/85) would never have got off the ground...
The problem Essex police are currently facing is that there now exists in the public domain, 'other features' of the evidence which now falls to be considered as linking events between the first police file (SC/688/85) and the second police file (SC/786/85), where Sheila's body was dealt with on top of the bed in the main bedroom with a Bible on her chest and the rifle on the bed in between the bodies of June Bamber and herself!
Essex police made very significant errors in the way they covered up the way they abused the bodies of victims at the scene, culminating in the staging of Sheila Caffell's death scene on the main bedroom floor, and then got a second team of SOCO to take pictures of the staged death scene so that they could present the case that Sheila had been found as shown in PC Birds photographs which he did not start taking until after 10.00am, that morning!
-
How could Essex police justify wasting public funded cash, being spent on these prosecution witnesses?
Why would the powers that be, go to such lengths?
Dunno but it's hardly a motive to frame someone.