Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 09:47:AM

Title: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 09:47:AM
There are hundreds of examples in the instant case, of 'actions and activities' which amount to 'malice aforethought', and 'dishonesty', in the effort to prosecute Jeremy Bamber, as the killer...
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 09:54:AM
There are hundreds of examples in the instant case, of 'actions and activities' which amount to 'malice aforethought', and 'dishonesty', in the effort to prosecute Jeremy Bamber, as the killer...

In this respect, I intend to post several examples, as recorded in the police action reports, which as I say, suggests in the strongest terms imaginable that evidence gathered was not spontaneously obtained, but part of a well planned dishonest prosecution of an innocent man - that innocent person was none other than Jeremy Bamber...
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 09:57:AM
Before I do so, however, I would first of all like to say that in cases where 'a solitary perpetrator' commits an offence, or a series of offences, without involvement, or speculation from any other party, it is usually the case, that after the arrest, decision to prosecute and at the trial of such an offender, there is almost always forensic or scieentific evidence to link the accused to the crime. In the instant case, there does not exist any such forensic or scientific evidence which places Jeremy Bamber as the killer - it all boils down to presumption and speculation, which of course is not evidence!
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:01:AM
Before I do so, however, I would first of all like to say that in cases where 'a solitary perpetrator' commits an offence, or a series of offences, without involvement, or speculation from any other party, it is usually the case, that after the arrest, decision to prosecute and at the trial of such an offender, there is almost always forensic or scieentific evidence to link the accused to the crime. In the instant case, there does not exist any such forensic or scientific evidence which places Jeremy Bamber as the killer - it all boils down to presumption and speculation, which of course is not evidence!

Did Jeremy Bamber act alone, in the killing of five members of his extended family?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:08:AM
Did Jeremy Bamber act alone, in the killing of five members of his extended family?

He either:-

(1) - acted alone, (2) - he had an accomplice, or (3) - he had no involvement whatsoever in the murders..
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:10:AM
If he was the murderer, or one of the murderers, why was it that he alone was prosecuted as the outright killer?

What forensic or scientific evidence existed to prove (1) and (2) above?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:14:AM
If he was the murderer, or one of the murderers, why was it that he alone was prosecuted as the outright killer?

What forensic or scientific evidence existed to prove (1) and (2) above?

Who, if any body, could have been, or was his accomplice?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:23:AM
Who, if any body, could have been, or was his accomplice?

Possible accomplices in the murders:-

(4) - Julie Mugford
(5) - Sheila Caffell
(6) - Brett Collins
(7) - Hector MaClean
(8) - Mathew MacDonald
(9) - Drug Baron
(10) - Brian Lee
(11) - Terrorist assasssin
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:34:AM
(4) - Julie Mugford

If everything she told police was true, then she would not have escaped prosecution, in the same way that Myra Hindley, Rose West, and Maxine Carr were successfully prosecuted...

If what Julie Mugford did say was true, she had the power to prevent it from ever happening in the first instance...

Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:37:AM
(5) - Sheila Caffell:-

If his accomplice was his suister, it would have been financially beneficial for him to keep Sheila alive, rather than to shoot her, not once, but twice!...
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:39:AM
(6) - Brett Collins:-

Out of the question, altogether, since he was not even present in the UK at the time of the shootings...
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:42:AM
(7) - Hector MaClean:-

Nothing conclusive, thus far to exclude his direct or indirect involvement...
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:43:AM
(8) - Mathew MacDonald:-

He was arrested but provided an acceptable alibi...
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:44:AM
(9) - Drug Baron:-

A possibility..
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:46:AM
(10) - Brian Lee:-

Possible indirect involvement, but he was not present at whf at the time of the murders because he was arrested in Belfast at 1am on the 6th August 1985, in possesssion of a firearm and charged with aggravated burgalry...
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: mike tesko on November 27, 2017, 10:48:AM
(11) - Terrorist assasssin:-

Still a posssibility that the IRA or the PLO had direct or indirect involvement in the murders...
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 27, 2017, 10:53:AM
(5) - Sheila Caffell:-

If his accomplice was his suister, it would have been financially beneficial for him to keep Sheila alive, rather than to shoot her, not once, but twice!...
Maybe Mike, she wanted to end her life anyway, maybe it was part of her plan to join her kids and parents in the after life?  Maybe she didn’t want the rifle in the mouth to inflict the fatal shot and it was agreed a shot to the throat?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 27, 2017, 10:56:AM
(5) - Sheila Caffell:-

If his accomplice was his suister, it would have been financially beneficial for him to keep Sheila alive, rather than to shoot her, not once, but twice!...
If anything Mike, I think Sheila was in such a vulnerable state she would have been, out of any of the others the possible one? 
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Caroline on November 27, 2017, 10:58:AM
(5) - Sheila Caffell:-

If his accomplice was his suister, it would have been financially beneficial for him to keep Sheila alive, rather than to shoot her, not once, but twice!...

Why? Dead men tell no tales.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Adam on November 27, 2017, 11:08:AM
(11) - Terrorist assasssin:-

Still a posssibility that the IRA or the PLO had direct or indirect involvement in the murders...

That is a possibility Mike. And would explain why there was no evidence on Sheila.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 27, 2017, 11:22:AM
i think de stefano is the highest living authority on the mi5 involvement
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 27, 2017, 12:43:PM
There are hundreds of examples in the instant case, of 'actions and activities' which amount to 'malice aforethought', and 'dishonesty', in the effort to prosecute Jeremy Bamber, as the killer...
Hi Mike thanks for all your hard work and input, if we take stock and reaccess, coming to light now is the obvious hatred of his parents, he never had a brotherly love with Sheila all this confirmed by Brett, he hated the fact his mother was giving away money to Church to which he had no control, he had a greed and need for money and the fact he was going to be tied to farming.  Although none of these make Jeremy a murderer the Motive becomes a lot stronger and clearer.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 27, 2017, 12:48:PM
Hi Mike thanks for all your hard work and input, if we take stock and reaccess, coming to light now is the obvious hatred of his parents, he never had a brotherly love with Sheila all this confirmed by Brett, he hated the fact his mother was giving away money to Church to which he had no control, he had a greed and need for money and the fact he was going to be tied to farming.  Although none of these make Jeremy a murderer the Motive becomes a lot stronger and clearer.

A perfect summation, Justice.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2017, 01:01:PM
This should have all been proved " beyond reasonable doubt "--------------and it wasn't considering it was the worst case of mass murder in its time.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 27, 2017, 01:17:PM
This should have all been proved " beyond reasonable doubt "--------------and it wasn't considering it was the worst case of mass murder in its time.

But for 10 persons it was. There's always going to be ONE difficult sod who'll dig their heals in for the sake of it. It doesn't mean they're right. It does mean they're difficult.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 27, 2017, 01:22:PM
But for 10 persons it was. There's always going to be ONE difficult sod who'll dig their heals in for the sake of it. It doesn't mean they're right. It does mean they're difficult.
Quite true Jane, I was suprised when it was 10/2 jury vote for Arthur Collins threw that acid injuring 22 innocent people.  He’s on cctv doing it yet two voted I suppose to say it wasn’t intentional?  Hope he gets 30 years, the disfigurements he’s caused, they have to make an example of him, I wish I was the Judge.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2017, 01:26:PM
Each to their own thoughts and views.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 27, 2017, 01:30:PM
Each to their own thoughts and views.
He looks a nasty piece of work that Collins bloke Lookout.  I think them acid attacks need sorting out and stiff sentences  :(
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2017, 01:47:PM
He looks a nasty piece of work that Collins bloke Lookout.  I think them acid attacks need sorting out and stiff sentences  :(






Yes,justice I can't say I see anything nice about him myself. A "wide boy" type who would lead a saint along the wrong road. An opportunist who saw an easy touch in JB.

Oh those acid attacks are horrendous-----so cowardly and evil to ruin a person's life forever. Horse-whipped ? Cat o' nine tails ?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 27, 2017, 01:52:PM





Yes,justice I can't say I see anything nice about him myself. A "wide boy" type who would lead a saint along the wrong road. An opportunist who saw an easy touch in JB.

Oh those acid attacks are horrendous-----so cowardly and evil to ruin a person's life forever. Horse-whipped ? Cat o' nine tails ?
Ha Ha, we have em both.  Your like me Lookout an eye for an eye  ;)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 27, 2017, 01:56:PM





Yes,justice I can't say I see anything nice about him myself. A "wide boy" type who would lead a saint along the wrong road. An opportunist who saw an easy touch in JB.

Oh those acid attacks are horrendous-----so cowardly and evil to ruin a person's life forever. Horse-whipped ? Cat o' nine tails ?
could also add the olden days (rack)to the above 2 . very evil people.as justice says stiffer sentences are in order













 to
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 27, 2017, 02:00:PM





Yes,justice I can't say I see anything nice about him myself. A "wide boy" type who would lead a saint along the wrong road. An opportunist who saw an easy touch in JB.

Oh those acid attacks are horrendous-----so cowardly and evil to ruin a person's life forever. Horse-whipped ? Cat o' nine tails ?
I think Brett was only with Bamber to see what he could get, in his interview he was covering his back but ready to stick the knife in whether Jeremy was guilty or not.  He soon scarpered after and never re surfaced for his mate, he was soon rushing over from Greece when he thought he’d hit the jackpot. Lower than a snakes belly Lookout  ;)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 27, 2017, 02:08:PM
I think Brett was only with Bamber to see what he could get, in his interview he was covering his back but ready to stick the knife in whether Jeremy was guilty or not.  He soon scarpered after and never re surfaced for his mate, he was soon rushing over from Greece when he thought he’d hit the jackpot. Lower than a snakes belly Lookout  ;)

Let's look at it the other way round before we totally write him off, shall we? Can we see Jeremy hanging around to give Brett his unconditional support had it been Brett who was suspected of a serious crime when they were in NZ?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 27, 2017, 02:12:PM
Let's look at it the other way round before we totally write him off, shall we? Can we see Jeremy hanging around to give Brett his unconditional support had it been Brett who was suspected of a serious crime when they were in NZ?
Your right Jane, never thought of it that way
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2017, 02:38:PM
Let's look at it the other way round before we totally write him off, shall we? Can we see Jeremy hanging around to give Brett his unconditional support had it been Brett who was suspected of a serious crime when they were in NZ?






JB would have put himself on the line more than Brett did. I doubt very much that JB would have done a runner.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 27, 2017, 02:43:PM





JB would have put himself on the line more than Brett did. I doubt very much that JB would have done a runner.
I think Jeremy would have offered support after, Lookout, Maybe Brett went because he didn’t want to get locked up in another Country?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 27, 2017, 02:46:PM





JB would have put himself on the line more than Brett did. I doubt very much that JB would have done a runner.

As we've no evidence of Jeremy EVER having given unconditional support to anyone, you're obviously guessing.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2017, 02:52:PM
As we've no evidence of Jeremy EVER having given unconditional support to anyone, you're obviously guessing.





Much the same as your guess,eh ?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Caroline on November 27, 2017, 04:35:PM
I think Jeremy would have offered support after, Lookout, Maybe Brett went because he didn’t want to get locked up in another Country?

Yes, 'after' he'd made sure he was a far enough distance away not to be implicated.

Perhaps Brett knew more than he let on, perhaps Jeremy did confide something to him and that's why he scarpered?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 27, 2017, 04:46:PM




Much the same as your guess,eh ?


But, Lookout, I can produce NUMEROUS accounts of how badly Jeremy has treated people, EVEN from his prison cell. Can you produce anything which contradicts it?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2017, 05:22:PM

But, Lookout, I can produce NUMEROUS accounts of how badly Jeremy has treated people, EVEN from his prison cell. Can you produce anything which contradicts it?






How JB treated people doesn't equate to a charge of murder-----in anyone for that matter. This can't be used as an excuse. You could have someone who's syrupy-sweet to your face but would stab you as quick as looking,so how a person is to another person doesn't count.
We're all capable of blowing hot and cold at some point in life .
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2017, 05:25:PM
I've just finished listening to 5 verbatim monologues on bambertweets which are worth a listen into the insights of Sheila as a person,and also of matters which were missed out during the trial.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2017, 05:28:PM

But, Lookout, I can produce NUMEROUS accounts of how badly Jeremy has treated people, EVEN from his prison cell. Can you produce anything which contradicts it?





Let's face it,most posters would say ( one or two having already said ) that over the years my approach to this case has been somewhat obnoxious at times,but it's a far cry from the person that I am and also to the many who know me personally.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 27, 2017, 05:39:PM





How JB treated people doesn't equate to a charge of murder-----in anyone for that matter. This can't be used as an excuse. You could have someone who's syrupy-sweet to your face but would stab you as quick as looking,so how a person is to another person doesn't count.
We're all capable of blowing hot and cold at some point in life .

We are indeed, but our inner core doesn't change. I'm perfectly certain, that when Jeremy wished to impress, "syrupy-sweet" was to the forefront....................until the mask slipped.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: David1819 on November 27, 2017, 05:49:PM
Yes, 'after' he'd made sure he was a far enough distance away not to be implicated.

Perhaps Brett knew more than he let on, perhaps Jeremy did confide something to him and that's why he scarpered?

What about the alleged phone call he made to the 'honest and honourable' Paul Harrison?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Caroline on November 27, 2017, 07:00:PM
I've just finished listening to 5 verbatim monologues on bambertweets which are worth a listen into the insights of Sheila as a person,and also of matters which were missed out during the trial.

Yep, just listened to them too. Verbatim? Guff more like!
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2017, 07:04:PM
Yep, just listened to them too. Verbatim? Guff more like!






I'd have said interesting. What about Emami's " Rolls Royce " turning into a Fiat ? See how things get exaggerated ?
So many twisted versions that it makes a change to see/hear the right one for a change.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Caroline on November 27, 2017, 09:27:PM





I'd have said interesting. What about Emami's " Rolls Royce " turning into a Fiat ? See how things get exaggerated ?
So many twisted versions that it makes a change to see/hear the right one for a change.

Oh I KNOW how things get exaggerated and WHO said that what's on the CT site is the 'right one'?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 27, 2017, 09:34:PM
Oh I KNOW how things get exaggerated and WHO said that what's on the CT site is the 'right one'?
[/quote






I've said in the past that I didn't agree with everything they said,but it doesn't mean that they're a lost cause at all.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 27, 2017, 09:51:PM
Oh I KNOW how things get exaggerated and WHO said that what's on the CT site is the 'right one'?
[/quote






I've said in the past that I didn't agree with everything they said,but it doesn't mean that they're a lost cause at all.
Makes you wonder who does their research for them though Lookout, they can’t kid a kidder  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Caroline on November 27, 2017, 09:53:PM
Oh I KNOW how things get exaggerated and WHO said that what's on the CT site is the 'right one'?





I've said in the past that I didn't agree with everything they said,but it doesn't mean that they're a lost cause at all.

They have got too many things wrong in the past Lookout and make no apology for it
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 10:40:AM



They have got too many things wrong in the past Lookout and make no apology for it







Not as many as EP have got wrong  :o
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Caroline on November 28, 2017, 10:41:AM






Not as many as EP have got wrong  :o

Well, that depends if you believe the CT - I don't.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 28, 2017, 10:44:AM






Not as many as EP have got wrong  :o
Have to agree with you Lookout on this, how could they believe Sheila shot Herself and killed the rest, shocking   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 11:00:AM
Have to agree with you Lookout on this, how could they believe Sheila shot Herself and killed the rest, shocking   ;D ;D ;D






How could EP not believe that someone with so many issues who was at the end of her tether, not do a thing like this ? How could Ferguson believe that she couldn't ?
Except Colin who knew her best when he told the officer that " she'd finally done it ".
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 28, 2017, 11:02:AM





How could EP not believe that someone with so many issues who was at the end of her tether, not do a thing like this ? How could Ferguson believe that she couldn't ?
Except Colin who knew her best when he told the officer that " she'd finally done it ".
EP thought she could at first till they woke up  ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 11:06:AM
Yep, just listened to them too. Verbatim? Guff more like!






I also got the distinct feeling that there'd been more to tell,hence making the videos in the first place,but we'll have to wait.
A third blog will probably be on the 12th of December marking the 15 years since the last full appeal.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Caroline on November 28, 2017, 11:44:AM





How could EP not believe that someone with so many issues who was at the end of her tether, not do a thing like this ? How could Ferguson believe that she couldn't ?
Except Colin who knew her best when he told the officer that " she'd finally done it ".

How did they know she has 'so many issues' - Jeremy told them
How did they know 'she was at the end of her tether' Jeremy told them
How could they not believe it when - Jeremy told them.

Ferguson believed she couldn't because he was her psychiatrist, he had listened to inner most secrets and fears and he knew she was medicated

Colin was referring to her 'killing HERSELF' NOT killing the rest of them and certainly NOT the twins. He accepted it because that's what he was told, he was told of a phone call in which Nevil (allegedley) accused his daughter of 'going crazy with a gun'. But again, we only know this because - Jeremy told them!
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 28, 2017, 12:05:PM
How did they know she has 'so many issues' - Jeremy told them
How did they know 'she was at the end of her tether' Jeremy told them
How could they not believe it when - Jeremy told them.

Ferguson believed she couldn't because he was her psychiatrist, he had listened to inner most secrets and fears and he knew she was medicated

Colin was referring to her 'killing HERSELF' NOT killing the rest of them and certainly NOT the twins. He accepted it because that's what he was told, he was told of a phone call in which Nevil (allegedley) accused his daughter of 'going crazy with a gun'. But again, we only know this because - Jeremy told them!
Excellant summing up Caroline  ;)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 12:09:PM
How did they know she has 'so many issues' - Jeremy told them
How did they know 'she was at the end of her tether' Jeremy told them
How could they not believe it when - Jeremy told them.

Ferguson believed she couldn't because he was her psychiatrist, he had listened to inner most secrets and fears and he knew she was medicated

Colin was referring to her 'killing HERSELF' NOT killing the rest of them and certainly NOT the twins. He accepted it because that's what he was told, he was told of a phone call in which Nevil (allegedley) accused his daughter of 'going crazy with a gun'. But again, we only know this because - Jeremy told them!





Colin hadn't exactly referred to her " killing herself " had he ? By you saying this it would also indicate that Sheila had spoken of,or mentioned this at some time,right ?
Sheila was more a tormented soul than anyone knew. A thousand pities she never got the support which was badly needed. It's no more a question/excuse that Sheila didn't keep appontments,the authorities should have gone to her.Lord knows her father paid enough for the services so she should have been allowed more than she got.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 28, 2017, 02:21:PM
her £40.000 drugs debt is impossible especially in the 80's.no drugdealer will be giving more than say a £1000 tick after that the tap is closed than its payup or except a visit.

I've always held that to be the case based on little more than my cottage, bought in 1985, costing £17,000. I simply couldn't believe that one person, in such a short space of time, could use that much and still be alive.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 02:22:PM
Malice Aforethought----------an appropriation of the title.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 28, 2017, 02:28:PM
her £40.000 drugs debt is impossible especially in the 80's.no drugdealer will be giving more than say a £1000 tick after that the tap is closed than its payup or except a visit.
Good point Sami, not a chance in them days, another myth bustered  ;). Bloody £40000 where do they get them from,  honest Sami some people are like wheelie bins, dust bins are too small  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 02:36:PM
Good point Sami, not a chance in them days, another myth bustered  ;). Bloody £40000 where do they get them from,  honest Sami some people are like wheelie bins, dust bins are too small  ;D ;D ;D






Makes you wonder how many lies exactly were told concerning this case ?? Especially when you have journo's like Woffinden who's changed his mind 3 times up to now about the case.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 03:01:PM
The first person to use the word " promiscuous " was John !! The description continued to be used by others
STOP singling me out !!
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 03:06:PM
Check these facts first in future instead of outright accusations. I bet you can't contain your excitement when you THINK you've found something  ::)

Holly was another who'd made a whole thread accusing me of something back in 2013. It turned out it HADN'T been me at all but to this day still harps on.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 28, 2017, 04:12:PM
Good point Sami, not a chance in them days, another myth bustered  ;). Bloody £40000 where do they get them from,  honest Sami some people are like wheelie bins, dust bins are too small  ;D ;D ;D
:)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 04:14:PM
Sharks = posters.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest154 on November 28, 2017, 04:36:PM
Good point Sami, not a chance in them days, another myth bustered  ;). Bloody £40000 where do they get them from,  honest Sami some people are like wheelie bins, dust bins are too small  ;D ;D ;D

The £40,000 comes from a book. The author used it as an example of the crazy stories in the press about Sheila at the time.
Lookout has used it in the past to say that the author was claiming Sheila had a £40k drugs debt - the author wasn't at all. She was using it as an example of the wild things in the press.

I posted the page once to show that the author wasn't claiming the £40k drugs debt. Obviously it was ignored because some like to peddle the author was claiming a drugs debt.  ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 28, 2017, 04:43:PM
The £40,000 comes from a book. The author used it as an example of the crazy stories in the press about Sheila at the time.
Lookout has used it in the past to say that the author was claiming Sheila had a £40k drugs debt - the author wasn't at all. She was using it as an example of the wild things in the press.

I posted the page once to show that the author wasn't claiming the £40k drugs debt. Obviously it was ignored because some like to peddle the author was claiming a drugs debt.  ;D
excellent mat,thanks for clearing that up once and forall :)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Caroline on November 28, 2017, 05:02:PM
The £40,000 comes from a book. The author used it as an example of the crazy stories in the press about Sheila at the time.
Lookout has used it in the past to say that the author was claiming Sheila had a £40k drugs debt - the author wasn't at all. She was using it as an example of the wild things in the press.

I posted the page once to show that the author wasn't claiming the £40k drugs debt. Obviously it was ignored because some like to peddle the author was claiming a drugs debt.  ;D

Cheers for that Mat, I have that book (never read it yet) will take a look :)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest154 on November 28, 2017, 05:11:PM
Cheers for that Mat, I have that book (never read it yet) will take a look :)

I found it!!  :)

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7208.msg340574.html#msg340574
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 28, 2017, 05:16:PM
I found it!!  :)

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7208.msg340574.html#msg340574
yep there it is in black n white ,good work ;)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 05:17:PM
The £40,000 comes from a book. The author used it as an example of the crazy stories in the press about Sheila at the time.
Lookout has used it in the past to say that the author was claiming Sheila had a £40k drugs debt - the author wasn't at all. She was using it as an example of the wild things in the press.

I posted the page once to show that the author wasn't claiming the £40k drugs debt. Obviously it was ignored because some like to peddle the author was claiming a drugs debt.  ;D
[/quote





Why did CAL write about it when Claire Powell had already mentioned it in the early 90's ?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 28, 2017, 05:24:PM
The £40,000 comes from a book. The author used it as an example of the crazy stories in the press about Sheila at the time.
Lookout has used it in the past to say that the author was claiming Sheila had a £40k drugs debt - the author wasn't at all. She was using it as an example of the wild things in the press.

I posted the page once to show that the author wasn't claiming the £40k drugs debt. Obviously it was ignored because some like to peddle the author was claiming a drugs debt.  ;D
[/quote





Why did CAL write about it when Claire Powell had already mentioned it in the early 90's ?
only cal can answer that question :)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 07:01:PM
I'm having my sacrilegious dinner-------fillet steak made into a delicious stew.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Caroline on November 28, 2017, 07:10:PM
I'm having my sacrilegious dinner-------fillet steak made into a delicious stew.

 :o :o :o :o :o :'( :'(
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 07:30:PM
:o :o :o :o :o :'( :'(






I know,I did warn you. I've actually done that before.I'm a bit extravagant with food I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 28, 2017, 07:38:PM
I'm having my sacrilegious dinner-------fillet steak made into a delicious stew.
did you beat that steak with a mallet.bet you were wishing it was one of our heads
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 07:44:PM
did you beat that steak with a mallet.bet you were wishing it was one of our heads






Oh no,you don't beat fillet,only the other stringy stuff to tenderise it.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 28, 2017, 07:54:PM
I'm having my sacrilegious dinner-------fillet steak made into a delicious stew.
You can tell where the money is, Fillet Steak, that’s something I have RARE  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 28, 2017, 07:58:PM
You can tell where the money is, Fillet Steak, that’s something I have RARE  ;D ;D ;D


You and me both, Justice.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Steve_uk on November 28, 2017, 08:02:PM
She's allowed: she's Blood Type O.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 28, 2017, 08:05:PM
She's allowed: she's Blood Type O.

What does that make rare steak eaters, Steve?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Steve_uk on November 28, 2017, 08:32:PM
What does that make rare steak eaters, Steve?
I'm not sure; fearless maybe.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 28, 2017, 08:35:PM
She's allowed: she's Blood Type O.
Does that mean she’s a spelling mistake Steve typo?
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 28, 2017, 08:36:PM
I'm not sure; fearless maybe.


I'll take that, Steve ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 28, 2017, 08:37:PM
I'm not sure; courageous maybe..
iam eating my steak's rare from now on,mind you the mother inlaw has it uncooked.neanderthal comes to mind :)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 08:41:PM
She's allowed: she's Blood Type O.






Thanks Steve,that's as good an excuse as any. ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 28, 2017, 08:42:PM
iam eating my steak's rare from now on,mind you the mother inlaw has it uncooked.neanderthal comes to mind :)
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 28, 2017, 08:44:PM
iam eating my steak's rare from now on,mind you the mother inlaw has it uncooked.neanderthal comes to mind :)

I've had Steak Tartare several times. That's raw minced filet steak with garlic and raw egg mixed in, from memory, I think. Taste's good.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 28, 2017, 08:44:PM
 :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 28, 2017, 08:55:PM
I've had Steak Tartare several times. That's raw minced filet steak with garlic and raw egg mixed in, from memory, I think. Taste's good.
i tried raw egg once in a glass having seen a famous face doing it,vomited instantly.the mother inlaw goes to the slaughter picks the animal and evens throttles it herself the owner has offered her a job
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 28, 2017, 09:05:PM
i tried raw egg once in a glass having seen a famous face doing it,vomited instantly.the mother inlaw goes to the slaughter picks the animal and evens throttles it herself the owner has offered her a job

Ooh! you're braver than I, Sami. I'm told that my mother's father -a butcher- used to pick his own animals at the farm. His breakfasts consisted of steak, chops, liver and sausage. He liked his steak and liver cooked for 10 seconds each side. Perhaps it's not surprising that my mother was almost vegetarian. The tiny amount of meat she ate -just the outside slices- had to be crucified.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Caroline on November 28, 2017, 09:12:PM




Colin hadn't exactly referred to her " killing herself " had he ?
By you saying this it would also indicate that Sheila had spoken of,or mentioned this at some time,right ?
Sheila was more a tormented soul than anyone knew. A thousand pities she never got the support which was badly needed. It's no more a question/excuse that Sheila didn't keep appontments,the authorities should have gone to her.Lord knows her father paid enough for the services so she should have been allowed more than she got.

It's in his book and no, she she hadn't talked about killing herself to him.

Sheila's illness was simply a convenience for Jeremy's plan - regardless of what help she had.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: David1819 on November 28, 2017, 09:20:PM
She's allowed: she's Blood Type O.

blood type personality theories are all in the real of pseudoscience.


https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjpsy/85/2/85_85.13016/_pdf (https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjpsy/85/2/85_85.13016/_pdf)

The first page summary is all you can read but that all you need to read.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 28, 2017, 09:22:PM
It's in his book and no, she she hadn't talked about killing herself to him.

Sheila's illness was simply a convenience for Jeremy's plan - regardless of what help she had.

Funny, isn't it, Caroline? There have been several attempts to sort out facts from fantasies -I believe you and I created a thread on it- but it seems that however many times we eradicate the fantasies, after a period of time they ALWAYS sneak back. I think it must suit supporters to peddle fantasies. There's that tantalizing suggestion of "something" having happened which draws people in.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 28, 2017, 09:27:PM
blood type personality theories are all in the real of pseudoscience.


https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjpsy/85/2/85_85.13016/_pdf (https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjpsy/85/2/85_85.13016/_pdf)

The first page summary is all you can read but that all you need to read.
Makes more sense when you read every page  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 28, 2017, 09:30:PM
Makes more sense when you read every page  ;D ;D ;D

As long as one remembers that the Chinese read from back to front. It doesn't make much sense otherwise.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Steve_uk on November 28, 2017, 09:32:PM
blood type personality theories are all in the real of pseudoscience.


https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjpsy/85/2/85_85.13016/_pdf (https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjpsy/85/2/85_85.13016/_pdf)

The first page summary is all you can read but that all you need to read.
I did oversimplify a little, but the parameters for diet hold true as well as lifestyle choices depending on your blood group.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 28, 2017, 09:35:PM
As long as one remembers that the Chinese read from back to front. It doesn't make much sense otherwise.
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 11:53:AM
You're cruisin' for a bruisin' again sami !! Looking for mischief ?
If you want a good laugh,
Why not go on red and read what the KNOW-ALL has to say about my sex-life. PMSL,she knows NOTHING !!
There's a whole thread dedicated to me.Aren't I lucky ?
.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 29, 2017, 12:06:PM
You're cruisin' for a bruisin' again sami !! Looking for mischief ?
If you want a good laugh,
Why not go on red and read what the KNOW-ALL has to say about my sex-life. PMSL,she knows NOTHING !!
There's a whole thread dedicated to me.Aren't I lucky ?
.
if thats true ,its disgusting and shameful( i dont go on red anymore i cant remember my password).but grown adults acting like school children.you can only pity them no moral's or principals
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 12:16:PM
if thats true ,its disgusting and shameful( i dont go on red anymore i cant remember my password).but grown adults acting like school children.you can only pity them no moral's or principals






Sam you've got to believe it. They ARE like a bunch of bullying school-kids that you read about every day as their bullying leads to suicides in the children on the end of it. They're despicable,believe me. And an ex-cop in charge of he forum says it all really for allowing it to go on. Lowest of the low.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 29, 2017, 12:22:PM
You're cruisin' for a bruisin' again sami !! Looking for mischief ?
If you want a good laugh,
Why not go on red and read what the KNOW-ALL has to say about my sex-life. PMSL,she knows NOTHING !!
There's a whole thread dedicated to me.Aren't I lucky ?
.
Thats wrong Lookout, I’ve not read it or willing to read it, something like that should be private.  They think they know it all and we all have had our troubles, I’ve had terrible look in that department as well, I visited one of those massage thingy parlours the other day, only to find it was self bloody service, honest What with cut backs and all that.  Take no notice of em Lookout.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 29, 2017, 12:25:PM





Sam you've got to believe it. They ARE like a bunch of bullying school-kids that you read about every day as their bullying leads to suicides in the children on the end of it. They're despicable,believe me. And an ex-cop in charge of he forum says it all really for allowing it to go on. Lowest of the low.
Must say though Lookout, I’ve read it (red) the odd time and I’ve noticed David doesn’t do/or get away with goading, we’ve all been having good conversations as of late, then up pops Dodgy Dave and it’s all over the place again. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 12:41:PM
Must say though Lookout, I’ve read it (red) the odd time and I’ve noticed David doesn’t do/or get away with goading, we’ve all been having good conversations as of late, then up pops Dodgy Dave and it’s all over the place again. ;D ;D ;D





I feel sorry for those kids who have to battle their way through abuse by others.It must be horrendous for them as it's truly wicked.
Because I'm ADULT and have an understanding of the misfits ( bullies ) of society,it doesn't bother me as I look at them like something nasty underneath my shoe and the fact that I'm better than they are. It always works with me.
What clowns like that haven't realised is that I could have mental health problems and could be affected badly----------but people like that are completely devoid of sympathy/empathy as all they think about are themselves.

If it makes them feel good,they can carry on because they're sick themselves without realising.

You can't expect anything else from " Dodgy Dave " as he socialises with the leader of the rat pack !
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 29, 2017, 01:31:PM
Must say though Lookout, I’ve read it (red) the odd time and I’ve noticed David doesn’t do/or get away with goading, we’ve all been having good conversations as of late, then up pops Dodgy Dave and it’s all over the place again. ;D ;D ;D
exactly justice,steve put up a perfectly reasonable opinion in his post you can believe it or not theres no need to put silly captions up.as an example , i personally dont believe in homeopathic medicine but i dont ridicule the millions of people who do
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 01:39:PM
exactly justice,steve put up a perfectly reasonable opinion in his post you can believe it or not theres no need to put silly captions up.as an example , i personally dont believe in homeopathic medicine but i dont ridicule the millions of people who do






Pathetic David is just another coward like all the rest.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 29, 2017, 01:40:PM
exactly justice,steve put up a perfectly reasonable opinion in his post you can believe it or not theres no need to put silly captions up.as an example , i personally dont believe in homeopathic medicine but i dont ridicule the millions of people who do
Excellant post Sami, we all make mistakes, were here to learn of others, forgive and forget that’s my Moto. I’ve had nothing but abuse of Dodgy, but you know what, I offer him the other cheek, “my arse”  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 29, 2017, 02:02:PM
Excellant post Sami, we all make mistakes, were here to learn of others, forgive and forget that’s my Moto. I’ve had nothing but abuse of Dodgy, but you know what, I offer him the other cheek, “my arse”  ;D ;D ;D
:)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 02:09:PM
Im having my second joint to calm me down now Jane, what did I tell you, the moment I knew Lookout was having Fillet Steak it was game on, she wants to go back to fish and chips it seems to have a calming influence on her  :o





I just thought I would give you two lads laugh seeing as we're on the same wave-length  :)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 29, 2017, 02:10:PM
Im having my second joint to calm me down now Jane, what did I tell you, the moment I knew Lookout was having Fillet Steak it was game on, she wants to go back to fish and chips it seems to have a calming influence on her  :o

And you promised me you only smoked ONE now and again!! Oh well, I suppose under present circumstances....................
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 29, 2017, 02:15:PM





Pathetic David is just another coward like all the rest.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but DD seems to post at School playtimes Lookout, I’m not accusing, but, you know what kids are like now days.  You would think he’d like to go and mix with the girls  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 29, 2017, 02:18:PM
 




I just thought I would give you two lads laugh seeing as we're on the same wave-length  :)) :)) :)) :))
:-[ :-[ :-[.  I can’t stop coughing and laughing this morning, I don’t know what that last one had in it.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: guest7363 on November 29, 2017, 02:19:PM
And you promised me you only smoked ONE now and again!! Oh well, I suppose under present circumstances....................
Ha Ha, I’m under pressure today Jane, the wife’s home  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 02:20:PM
  :-[ :-[ :-[.  I can’t stop coughing and laughing this morning, I don’t know what that last one had in it.






 :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 29, 2017, 02:22:PM
Ha Ha, I’m under pressure today Jane, the wife’s home  ;D ;D ;D

Well, I suppose I DID say under present circumstances......................... ;)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: David1819 on November 29, 2017, 03:20:PM
Must say though Lookout, I’ve read it (red) the odd time and I’ve noticed David doesn’t do/or get away with goading, we’ve all been having good conversations as of late, then up pops Dodgy Dave and it’s all over the place again. ;D ;D ;D

Save your breath.. You'll need it to blow up your date.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: David1819 on November 29, 2017, 03:32:PM


You can't expect anything else from " Dodgy Dave " as he socialises with the leader of the rat pack !


the leader of the rat pack?  ???
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 03:40:PM

the leader of the rat pack?  ???





 
WITH--------the leader of the rat-pack. Don't you be making something out of nothing as well  ::)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: David1819 on November 29, 2017, 03:42:PM




 
WITH--------the leader of the rat-pack. Don't you be making something out of nothing as well  ::)

I don't know who you are reffering to. Who are the rat-pack and their leader?  :-\
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 03:51:PM
I don't know who you are reffering to. Who are the rat-pack and their leader?  :-\






Go figure.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: sami on November 29, 2017, 04:00:PM
Save your breath.. You'll need it to blow up your date.  ;D ;D ;D
talking in riddles again david,you might want to try jackanory ,or rainbow
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: David1819 on November 29, 2017, 04:09:PM





Go figure.

Don't know what your on about. No names mentioned... your not a 'coward' like me are you?  ::)
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 04:21:PM
Don't know what your on about. No names mentioned... your not a 'coward' like me are you?  ::)






If you care to read the repeats of my posts which are/were on here that the parrots have made on your other forum------do so. You'll find the " she who must be obeyed " leader.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: David1819 on November 29, 2017, 04:24:PM





If you care to read the repeats of my posts which are/were on here that the parrots have made on your other forum------do so. You'll find the " she who must be obeyed " leader.
???
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 04:51:PM
???







Brain of an amoeba ! Calls herself Holly.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: David1819 on November 29, 2017, 05:01:PM






Brain of an amoeba ! Calls herself Holly.

Oh.

Well the animosity between you lot started long before I took any interest in this case. I don't know what happened.  :-\
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: Jane on November 29, 2017, 05:05:PM






Brain of an amoeba ! Calls herself Holly.

Good God!! Talk about a turn coat. You said, only a few weeks back, having previously referred to her as many things not exactly pleasant, that you only went over to red to read her excellent and well researched posts.
Title: Re: Malice aforethought - an alternative view, and a different approach...
Post by: lookout on November 29, 2017, 05:06:PM
Oh.

Well the animosity between you lot started long before I took any interest in this case. I don't know what happened.  :-\





I don't know what happened either,but it only takes one to start a vendetta !! The rest followed like sheep