Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Tyler Durden on June 03, 2011, 04:17:PM
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Hey everybody.
I'm not sure if this is the place for noob introductions or if I should just cut straight to the chase...I'm thinking the latter, unless you guys say otherwise and welcome me with a big hug and sloppy kiss...or something.
Okay, so here's my set-up.
The night before the murders, JB says he went to the farm house and loaded the rifle and then left it on the kitchen table.
He says he left at around 9:30pm.
I have 2 questions that I'm hoping someone might be able to help me with.
1) What time did he get to the farmhouse?
2) Was the telescopic site attached to the rifle when he loaded it or when it was found?
I've seen a few crime scene photo's, and only a very small number at that. As morbid as it may sound, are there any pictures in the public domain that can be examined, especially of the rifle and its various locations, and also of SC's positioning with the rifle?
...oh and if you do want a noob introduction, I'd be only too happy to bore you senseless.
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Hi Tyler. In answer to question 1 - Jeremy had been at the farm all day because he worked there.He stayed on longer that day/evening to share supper with the family.
In answer to question 2 - Jeremy has said that neither the sights or the silencer were upon the rifle when he left it.Neither were on the rifle when found with Sheilas body.Jeremys relatives allegedly found both,in the gun cupboard some weeks following the murders.
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Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.
Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.
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Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.
Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.
I believe that's the official position, although there have been some suggestions on here that multiple weapons were used - I could never follow the reasoning though.
Anyway - welcome to the board Tyler. You seem way too polite for the traditional newbie on this forum - many of our recent new accounts seem to have been created purely to allow some of our less pleasant posters to hold conversations with themselves ;D
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Thanks for that Bob, much appreciated sir.
I can assure you that this is my first and only account on here.
It was just a bizarre bit of synchronicity that brought me to this place to be honest and I've spent most of last night reading old posts, although I must have missed all the arguments or nasty posts.
It's good to see that both sides of the fence can debate on here and people are willing to share information.
One more question if you wouldn't mind.
JB said he loaded the rifle because he thought he heard rabbits, yet he didn't go out to shoot them but simply left the rifle on the table. This puzzles me
I'm curious as to the time he left the rifle on the table.
I know he left at 9:30pm, and by then the light would have been less than adequate for shooting, after all, he had no telescopic sight or night vision.
Did he load it around 8:30/9pm when there was still a good enough August light to shoot and then change his mind?
Ever so slightly curious.
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Are you really Tyler Durden because you would be most welcome at the wide awake club
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Are you really Tyler Durden because you would be most welcome at the wide awake club
Jackie..........behave yourself ;)
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Are you really Tyler Durden because you would be most welcome at the wide awake club
If Timmy Mallet is there, he's going down in the 1st...
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Tyler :P
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Thanks for that Bob, much appreciated sir.
I can assure you that this is my first and only account on here.
It was just a bizarre bit of synchronicity that brought me to this place to be honest and I've spent most of last night reading old posts, although I must have missed all the arguments or nasty posts.
It's good to see that both sides of the fence can debate on here and people are willing to share information.
One more question if you wouldn't mind.
JB said he loaded the rifle because he thought he heard rabbits, yet he didn't go out to shoot them but simply left the rifle on the table. This puzzles me
I'm curious as to the time he left the rifle on the table.
I know he left at 9:30pm, and by then the light would have been less than adequate for shooting, after all, he had no telescopic sight or night vision.
Did he load it around 8:30/9pm when there was still a good enough August light to shoot and then change his mind?
Ever so slightly curious.
hello, Tyler, pleased to meet you and welcome to the forum.
I believe I recall Jeremy stating that the rabbits had gone by the time he'd loaded the rifle. I could be wrong though. Jeremy had been working 15 hours shifts on the farm. My guess is that he perhaps wanted to let off steam with a bit of shooting while he waited for his dinner, but then either dinner was put on the table or he realised he was too tired to shoot. Or perhaps, as you've said, he realised it was too dark to shoot.
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Thanks for that Keira.
Much appreciated.
It's so difficult to build a picture from just a few shards.
I don't suppose there's a media section to this forum where images and documents are stored?
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Thanks for that Keira.
Much appreciated.
It's so difficult to build a picture from just a few shards.
I don't suppose there's a media section to this forum where images and documents are stored?
There is some here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/board,3.0.html (http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/board,3.0.html)
I am in the process of gathering all pictures I can find connected to this case - but I just have them on my own computer. I found it irritating to have to trawl through threads to find pictures. But that doesn´t help you! I don´t know how to share them, I am not an admin and cannot upload anything to the archives.
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Hey thanks a lot for that Abs. Much appreciated.
I guess the pictures will surface eventually.
I'm hoping we'll finally get to see high resolution images of thekitchen in particular, especially the Aga and surround and also of SC's room, in particualr close ups of her hands an feet.
She was wearing bright red nail polish. I'm wondering if there are any smudges on her nails that would possibly match the red found on the sound moderator. Unless of course that was proved to be paint from the kitchen surround.
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Hey thanks a lot for that Abs. Much appreciated.
I guess the pictures will surface eventually.
I'm hoping we'll finally get to see high resolution images of thekitchen in particular, especially the Aga and surround and also of SC's room, in particualr close ups of her hands an feet.
She was wearing bright red nail polish. I'm wondering if there are any smudges on her nails that would possibly match the red found on the sound moderator. Unless of course that was proved to be paint from the kitchen surround.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jP4ZtW5Off0J:www.sleuthingforjustice.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D74%26t%3D2445+Barbara+W You may find this an interesting read !!
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Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.
Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.
The ballistics proved that 15 of the bullets found had been fired through the Anschutz rifle. Another 10 could have been fired through the Anschutz but might have been fired through a different .22 rifle. There was apparently another .22 rifle, I believe a Brno bolt action weapon, at White House Farm. It has been suggested that this rifle or possibly another weapon (an unusual composite rifle and shotgun) subsequently handed to the police in strange circumstances, may also have been used. I have not seen any direct evidence that another weapon was used so I am of the view that all the shots were fired through the Anschutz. However, I accept that the evidence is not conclusive on this and I may be wrong.
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@Jon - Wow. Thanks for that pal. It's sure as hell gonna take me a while to get through all of that, but I'll make it!
@ngb - Thanks a lot pal. Could you possibly elaborate on the 'strange circumstances' bit?
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Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.
Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.
The ballistics proved that 15 of the bullets found had been fired through the Anschutz rifle. Another 10 could have been fired through the Anschutz but might have been fired through a different .22 rifle. There was apparently another .22 rifle, I believe a Brno bolt action weapon, at White House Farm. It has been suggested that this rifle or possibly another weapon (an unusual composite rifle and shotgun) subsequently handed to the police in strange circumstances, may also have been used. I have not seen any direct evidence that another weapon was used so I am of the view that all the shots were fired through the Anschutz. However, I accept that the evidence is not conclusive on this and I may be wrong.
If two different weapons were used, the killer might have only had to reload once.
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...or not at all if they were both pre-loaded.
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Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.
Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.
The ballistics proved that 15 of the bullets found had been fired through the Anschutz rifle. Another 10 could have been fired through the Anschutz but might have been fired through a different .22 rifle. There was apparently another .22 rifle, I believe a Brno bolt action weapon, at White House Farm. It has been suggested that this rifle or possibly another weapon (an unusual composite rifle and shotgun) subsequently handed to the police in strange circumstances, may also have been used. I have not seen any direct evidence that another weapon was used so I am of the view that all the shots were fired through the Anschutz. However, I accept that the evidence is not conclusive on this and I may be wrong.
If two different weapons were used, the killer might have only had to reload once.
2 different weapons would tend to suggest 2 shooters
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...not necessarily.
It could simply be a case of going from one to the other...a bit like Arnie in Terminator in the police station shoot out...only not.
...that is if indeed 2 weapons were used. I'm thinking single weapon theory.
If SC pulled the trigger, then maybe she reloaded it twice if she didn't have the strength to put the last couple of bullets into the clip.
Just a guess.
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i cant see the point of one shooter using to different weapons other than not having to reload.
that is of course if 2 weapons were used.
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I believe Sheila planned this thing very carefully and therefore prepared the weapon and ammunition so that everything she did left very little for her to do. She probably waited up until the whole family was asleep and then began her murders. I don't agree that the shots of the rifle would wake the twins, and it is quite obbvious that it didn't. But it does seem that it woke June and Ralph. So it is quite irrelevant to say that the gunshots would have awoken them thererfore a silencer was used as it is quite obvious that it did anyway.
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I believe Sheila planned this thing very carefully and therefore prepared the weapon and ammunition so that everything she did left very little for her to do. She probably waited up until the whole family was asleep and then began her murders. I don't agree that the shots of the rifle would wake the twins, and it is quite obbvious that it didn't. But it does seem that it woke June and Ralph. So it is quite irrelevant to say that the gunshots would have awoken them thererfore a silencer was used as it is quite obvious that it did anyway.
I think that June was sleeping the first time she was shot. There is blood on her pillow from a shot to her head.
I wish I could make any sense of the order of the murders - I mean who was shot first and who last. I can't - and that sometimes makes me wonder if two people were involved. That would, in my opinion, exclude Sheila (I know the psychic disagrees...)
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@Jon - Wow. Thanks for that pal. It's sure as hell gonna take me a while to get through all of that, but I'll make it!
@ngb - Thanks a lot pal. Could you possibly elaborate on the 'strange circumstances' bit?
Try the link below. I seem to recall there is also an earlier thread where the handing in of the two weapons (one of then the unusual shotgun/rifle combination) is discussed, but I have not been able to find it.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,575.0.html
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Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.
Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.
The ballistics proved that 15 of the bullets found had been fired through the Anschutz rifle. Another 10 could have been fired through the Anschutz but might have been fired through a different .22 rifle. There was apparently another .22 rifle, I believe a Brno bolt action weapon, at White House Farm. It has been suggested that this rifle or possibly another weapon (an unusual composite rifle and shotgun) subsequently handed to the police in strange circumstances, may also have been used. I have not seen any direct evidence that another weapon was used so I am of the view that all the shots were fired through the Anschutz. However, I accept that the evidence is not conclusive on this and I may be wrong.
If two different weapons were used, the killer might have only had to reload once.
abs - that is true and a good point. Between them the two rifles (if the second one was the bolt action .22 rifle also kept at WHF) could have held 22 rounds in total, 10 rounds in each magazine and one in each breach. The evidence suggests that either 25 or 27 shots were fired, so if two rifles were used it would only have been necessary to reload with between 3 and 5 additional rounds. This could have been done individually into the breach so would not necessarily have involved reloading a magazine at any stage.
My own feeling is still that only one rifle was used but I accept that the evidence is not conclusive.
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Hey thanks for that Tyler, much appreciated.
Just to get one thing clear in my head, but ballistics proved there was only one weapon used throughout the murders right? The .22 Anschutz.
The ballistics proved that 15 of the bullets found had been fired through the Anschutz rifle. Another 10 could have been fired through the Anschutz but might have been fired through a different .22 rifle. There was apparently another .22 rifle, I believe a Brno bolt action weapon, at White House Farm. It has been suggested that this rifle or possibly another weapon (an unusual composite rifle and shotgun) subsequently handed to the police in strange circumstances, may also have been used. I have not seen any direct evidence that another weapon was used so I am of the view that all the shots were fired through the Anschutz. However, I accept that the evidence is not conclusive on this and I may be wrong.
If two different weapons were used, the killer might have only had to reload once.
2 different weapons would tend to suggest 2 shooters
If two weapons were used it is obviously possible that two people were involved, but it would be equally consistent with one person wanting to have the best chance of killing several people without having to reload. There is no suggestion in the evidence that a second rifle was left out at WHF loaded so if two weapons were used by a single person there must have been a degree of planning in first loading the second rifle before starting the shooting spree. I do not think the evidence on this, taken with the other available evidence, points clearly to any particular person being responsible.