Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: vidvic on May 28, 2011, 02:47:AM
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Maybe someone can help me with this?
In Jeremy's original statement he claimed that the call from his father was at 3.10am. He then stated that he called Julie BEFORE the Police, though he then appears to have changed his mind and at trial claimed he called the Police first. Not 999, but on an exchange number found in the phone book.
He claimed that the call to Julie was at about 3.30 though this was disputed by the prosecution and there was good testimony from several flat mates that the call was closer to 3am.
At the 2002 appeal, Jeremy's team tried to use notes made by Mrs Eaton to show that indeed this call was made at 3.30. This was rejected (as were ALL the appeal points) but never the less, Jeremy's team put a lot of effort into fixing the time at 3.30, because that would put Jeremy's call to the Police at 3.26 BEFORE he called Julie.
We are now led to believe that his father called the Police at 3.26 and that Jeremy didn't call them until 3.36, yet again putting the call to Julie BEFORE the call to Police.
In Jeremy's audio interview of 2010 he now claims he wasn't woken until 3.15-3.30, where as in his original statements he was more certain that it was at 3.10.
-As an aside, In his original statement he also said he went to bed at 11pm but that has also now shifted to midnight.-
What is known is that Jeremy arrived at the farm at approx 3.50am, just after the police car CA7 which was despatched at 3.35 and which arrived at 3.48.
If he called the Police at 3.36, and remember there was a 2nd conversation with Police where Jeremy complained they were not moving quickly enough, his father sounded "terrified", and he was overtaken by Police on their way to the farm before 3.48, then it simply is impossible that he called Julie AFTER calling the Police and highly unlikely he would have had time for the 2nd conversation with Police which has never been disputed.
If he called the Police at 3.36 then surely the police would have reassured him that help was already on its way? During the 2nd call with the Police, when Jeremy was more agitated, they surely would have informed him that by that time, not one, but two cars were already on route?
When Jeremy arrived at Whitehouse, and during the wait for entry to the house, Jeremy was asked why his Father had called him and not the Police. Why would that question have been asked if it wasn't the case and that CA7 had indeed been responding to a call from his Father? Please remember that at this time there was absolutely no suspision of Jeremy and is undisputed that the question was asked. Jeremy's answer was well documented and not disputed.
So, we have various statements from Julie's flatmates saying that the call to their house was between 2.59 and 3.30. The Jury believed and the appeal court believe it to be around 2.59-3.02 (3.12 minus the 10 mins set fast). Jeremy maintained it was at 3.30, AFTER his call to the Police at 3.26, which has now moved backwards in time to 3.36.
This would conveniently remove any lingering doubt that Jeremy would ever have been able to phone anyone from his phone if his father had indeed called him "and the line went dead". It would also lessen the seemingly casual reaction to his "terrified" Father, compressing his reaction time.
There are now three timelines to consider for this sequence of events;
Jeremy's original version.- Call from Father 3.10. Call to Police 3.26. Call to Julie 3.30, Further conversation with Police, overtaken approx 3.46, arrive Whitehouse 3.50.
Jury believed - No call from Father, call to Julie 3.00approx, Call to Police 3.26, further conversation With Police, overtaken 3.46, arrive Whitehouse 3.50.
New evidence version- Call from Father 3.15-3.30 (Father called Police at 3.26), call to Julie 3.30, call to Police at 3.36, further conversation with Police, arrive Whitehouse 3.50.
Which version should we believe?
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Do you have a copy of Jeremy's original statement?
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Also you are looking at all these so called contradictions. But do you look at your watch every time you make a telephone call and note what time it is? If it even entered the head of Jeremy that he needed an alibi then I'm sure he's have paid more attention to time details? What is is with some people? I challenge anyone here to look back at yesterday and note down exactly what time they did certain important things during the day.
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Yes. I smell collusion.
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Yes. I smell collusion.
Also the police couldn't get the time of Jeremy's call right 3.26/3.36 But they expect others to get it right.
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Vidvic, in your phone call text above you keep referring to Jeremy's 2 phone calls to Police when in fact there was only 1 phone call ever made by Jeremy to Police on that night. The reason that 1 call was divided into 2 parts is the Police put Jeremy on hold for a period of time and came back to him to confirm that assistance was on it's way etc. Police statements say he was reasonably calm for the the first part of the call but when they came back to him after he was on hold he was agitated and complained about the time it was taking.
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Vidvic, The point about Jeremy being asked why his Father had called him and NOT the police is very important. I know I have read this in the Bailii appeal document but can you link me with other testemony about JB's conversation with police at WHF. I've tried searching but couldn't get anything, thanks.
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As a magistrate Nevill knew that a 999 call would have got an emergecy response.
He did not want this because he had witnessed these moments with Shiela before. so he called Jeremy. Likewise Nevill might have instilled into Jeremy only to use the 999 number in an emergency only. Jeremy was also aware of these episodes with Shiela, and knew that his Dad could nomally calm Shiela,so to him at this stage it was not an emergency.
It seems that they wanted to at this stage to keep it low key and only involve the local Plod.
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As a magistrate Nevill knew that a 999 call would have got an emergecy response.
He did not want this because he had witnessed these moments with Shiela before. so he called Jeremy. Likewise Nevill might have instilled into Jeremy only to use the 999 number in an emergency only. Jeremy was also aware of these episodes with Shiela, and knew that his Dad could nomally calm Shiela,so to him at this stage it was not an emergency.
It seems that they wanted to at this stage to keep it low key and only involve the local Plod.
Why didn't Neville call the non-999 number directly then, rather than calling Jeremy and having him do it?
Also, if Neville was usually able to calm Sheila during such episodes why would he have called on Jeremy at all?
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As a magistrate Nevill knew that a 999 call would have got an emergecy response.
He did not want this because he had witnessed these moments with Shiela before. so he called Jeremy. Likewise Nevill might have instilled into Jeremy only to use the 999 number in an emergency only. Jeremy was also aware of these episodes with Shiela, and knew that his Dad could nomally calm Shiela,so to him at this stage it was not an emergency.
It seems that they wanted to at this stage to keep it low key and only involve the local Plod.
Why didn't Neville call the non-999 number directly then, rather than calling Jeremy and having him do it?
Also, if Neville was usually able to calm Sheila during such episodes why would he have called on Jeremy at all?
Bob as I was trying to explain [badly perhaps] if I answer your second question first.He could normally calm Shiela down, but on this occasion could not so called Jeremy for help.
I think this answers the first part of your question.
Please bear in mind that as a magistrate he would not have unwanted publicity, so the local police were his option.
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Yes. I smell collusion.
Not another one??
Just how many people are supposed to be in on this conspiracy? :-)
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As a magistrate Nevill knew that a 999 call would have got an emergecy response.
He did not want this because he had witnessed these moments with Shiela before. so he called Jeremy. Likewise Nevill might have instilled into Jeremy only to use the 999 number in an emergency only. Jeremy was also aware of these episodes with Shiela, and knew that his Dad could nomally calm Shiela,so to him at this stage it was not an emergency.
It seems that they wanted to at this stage to keep it low key and only involve the local Plod.
Why didn't Neville call the non-999 number directly then, rather than calling Jeremy and having him do it?
Also, if Neville was usually able to calm Sheila during such episodes why would he have called on Jeremy at all?
Bob as I was trying to explain [badly perhaps] if I answer your second question first.He could normally calm Shiela down, but on this occasion could not so called Jeremy for help.
I think this answers the first part of your question.
Please bear in mind that as a magistrate he would not have unwanted publicity, so the local police were his option.
Sorry I misunderstood you then Cliff.
But it leads another question, regarding JB's & Sheila's relationship, which I'll raise a new thread for, so this one stays on topic!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,868.0.html
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Yes. I smell collusion.
Not another one??
Just how many people are supposed to be in on this conspiracy? :-)
Not conspiracy Lucy just collusion. Just to back up what Julie Mugford said.
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Vidvic,
EP could have established without a shadow of doubt, both at the trial and at any time during the past 25 years, what time these events occurred - by producing their recordings. Yet they refused to do so - why?
Why did they withhold these from the judge, jury and defence at the trial?
Why did the police claim to have destroyed these recordings when they'd kept copies? The existence of which only emerged many years later.
Why have they, for over 25 years, refused to give Bamber's defence copies of these these recordings?
What are they hiding?
That one of those recordings is of Nevill Bamber requesting police assistance?
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Also you are looking at all these so called contradictions. But do you look at your watch every time you make a telephone call and note what time it is? If it even entered the head of Jeremy that he needed an alibi then I'm sure he's have paid more attention to time details? What is is with some people? I challenge anyone here to look back at yesterday and note down exactly what time they did certain important things during the day.
Good point, grahame +1
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Me too, lebaleb. They would have been half asleep, and even if they did precisely note the time, which I doubt, my guess is they'd would have been confused about it by the morning.
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As a magistrate Nevill knew that a 999 call would have got an emergecy response.
He did not want this because he had witnessed these moments with Shiela before. so he called Jeremy. Likewise Nevill might have instilled into Jeremy only to use the 999 number in an emergency only. Jeremy was also aware of these episodes with Shiela, and knew that his Dad could nomally calm Shiela,so to him at this stage it was not an emergency.
It seems that they wanted to at this stage to keep it low key and only involve the local Plod.
Why didn't Neville call the non-999 number directly then, rather than calling Jeremy and having him do it?
Also, if Neville was usually able to calm Sheila during such episodes why would he have called on Jeremy at all?
Bob as I was trying to explain [badly perhaps] if I answer your second question first.He could normally calm Shiela down, but on this occasion could not so called Jeremy for help.
I think this answers the first part of your question.
Please bear in mind that as a magistrate he would not have unwanted publicity, so the local police were his option.
Good points, Cliff +1
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Yes. I smell collusion.
Also the police couldn't get the time of Jeremy's call right 3.26/3.36 But they expect others to get it right.
I agree, lebaleb +1
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Me too, lebaleb. They would have been half asleep, and even if they did precisely note the time, which I doubt, my guess is they'd would have been confused about it by the morning.
I have to disagree Keira - if the phone woke me up in the middle of the night the first thing I would do is look at the alarm clock and think to myself "who the bloody hell is phoning here at 3:27am"!
And the time would then stick in my mind quite readily.
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As a magistrate Nevill knew that a 999 call would have got an emergecy response.
He did not want this because he had witnessed these moments with Shiela before. so he called Jeremy. Likewise Nevill might have instilled into Jeremy only to use the 999 number in an emergency only. Jeremy was also aware of these episodes with Shiela, and knew that his Dad could nomally calm Shiela,so to him at this stage it was not an emergency.
It seems that they wanted to at this stage to keep it low key and only involve the local Plod.
Why didn't Neville call the non-999 number directly then, rather than calling Jeremy and having him do it?
Also, if Neville was usually able to calm Sheila during such episodes why would he have called on Jeremy at all?
Bob as I was trying to explain [badly perhaps] if I answer your second question first.He could normally calm Shiela down, but on this occasion could not so called Jeremy for help.
I think this answers the first part of your question.
Please bear in mind that as a magistrate he would not have unwanted publicity, so the local police were his option.
Sorry I misunderstood you then Cliff.
But it leads another question, regarding JB's & Sheila's relationship, which I'll raise a new thread for, so this one stays on topic!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,868.0.html
No problem Bob.
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Me too, lebaleb. They would have been half asleep, and even if they did precisely note the time, which I doubt, my guess is they'd would have been confused about it by the morning.
It's very easy to get your story straight if there are a number of you. Now, what time did such and such happen? Oh about 3 I think. Oh yes I seem to remember that as well. Shall we say 3 o'clock then? Ok, We'll tell the cops 3 o'clock.
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Me too, lebaleb. They would have been half asleep, and even if they did precisely note the time, which I doubt, my guess is they'd would have been confused about it by the morning.
It's very easy to get your story straight if there are a number of you. Now, what time did such and such happen? Oh about 3 I think. Oh yes I seem to remember that as well. Shall we say 3 o'clock then? Ok, We'll tell the cops 3 o'clock.
Exactly.
What I'd like to know is why vicvid views discrepancies in times - which let's face it, are part of the human conditon - as a major problem while ignoring the true major problem, one that underlies not just this issue but all others in this case: the huge amount of vital evidence which has been withheld since 1985.
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Me too, lebaleb. They would have been half asleep, and even if they did precisely note the time, which I doubt, my guess is they'd would have been confused about it by the morning.
It's very easy to get your story straight if there are a number of you. Now, what time did such and such happen? Oh about 3 I think. Oh yes I seem to remember that as well. Shall we say 3 o'clock then? Ok, We'll tell the cops 3 o'clock.
Exactly.
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Me too, lebaleb. They would have been half asleep, and even if they did precisely note the time, which I doubt, my guess is they'd would have been confused about it by the morning.
It's very easy to get your story straight if there are a number of you. Now, what time did such and such happen? Oh about 3 I think. Oh yes I seem to remember that as well. Shall we say 3 o'clock then? Ok, We'll tell the cops 3 o'clock.
Exactly.
Good point Keira and worth making twice ;D
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Me too, lebaleb. They would have been half asleep, and even if they did precisely note the time, which I doubt, my guess is they'd would have been confused about it by the morning.
It's very easy to get your story straight if there are a number of you. Now, what time did such and such happen? Oh about 3 I think. Oh yes I seem to remember that as well. Shall we say 3 o'clock then? Ok, We'll tell the cops 3 o'clock.
Exactly.
Good point Keira and worth making twice ;D
Exactly. Indeed, worth making three times. ;D
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Me too, lebaleb. They would have been half asleep, and even if they did precisely note the time, which I doubt, my guess is they'd would have been confused about it by the morning.
I have to disagree Keira - if the phone woke me up in the middle of the night the first thing I would do is look at the alarm clock and think to myself "who the bloody hell is phoning here at 3:27am"!
And the time would then stick in my mind quite readily.
So why did Susan Battersby change her statement about the time?
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Me too, lebaleb. They would have been half asleep, and even if they did precisely note the time, which I doubt, my guess is they'd would have been confused about it by the morning.
I have to disagree Keira - if the phone woke me up in the middle of the night the first thing I would do is look at the alarm clock and think to myself "who the bloody hell is phoning here at 3:27am"!
And the time would then stick in my mind quite readily.
So why did Susan Battersby change her statement about the time?
I don't know about that lebaleb - I'm just saying that personally, I would remember what time I was woken up by a phone ringing in the middle of the night.
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I have a lot of trouble believing that Julie's flat mates could remember so accurately the time of Jeremy's call.
Me too, lebaleb. They would have been half asleep, and even if they did precisely note the time, which I doubt, my guess is they'd would have been confused about it by the morning.
I have to disagree Keira - if the phone woke me up in the middle of the night the first thing I would do is look at the alarm clock and think to myself "who the bloody hell is phoning here at 3:27am"!
And the time would then stick in my mind quite readily.
So why did Susan Battersby change her statement about the time?
I don't know about that lebaleb - I'm just saying that personally, I would remember what time I was woken up by a phone ringing in the middle of the night.
It could also depend on how much alcohol/cannabis they had consumed that night.
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Going back to the original post, the timeline of the calls is a little odd. If JB got a call from Nevill at 3:10 and didn't call the police until 3:36, what was he doing in the intervening 26 mins? That's a long time to wait if you are worried your sister is threatening your parents with a gun ???
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Going back to the original post, the timeline of the calls is a little odd. If JB got a call from Nevill at 3:10 and didn't call the police until 3:36, what was he doing in the intervening 26 mins? That's a long time to wait if you are worried your sister is threatening your parents with a gun ???
Bob, Jeremy had witnessed all this before.
Shiela [poor soul] had exploded many times, ie gas man, When June calmed her down.
Maybe the rejection by Colin was the final straw.
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Going back to the original post, the timeline of the calls is a little odd. If JB got a call from Nevill at 3:10 and didn't call the police until 3:36, what was he doing in the intervening 26 mins? That's a long time to wait if you are worried your sister is threatening your parents with a gun ???
Bob, Jeremy had witnessed all this before.
Shiela [poor soul] had exploded many times, ie gas man, When June calmed her down.
Maybe the rejection by Colin was the final straw.
If that's the case then why call the police at all?
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Going back to the original post, the timeline of the calls is a little odd. If JB got a call from Nevill at 3:10 and didn't call the police until 3:36, what was he doing in the intervening 26 mins? That's a long time to wait if you are worried your sister is threatening your parents with a gun ???
Bob, Jeremy had witnessed all this before.
Shiela [poor soul] had exploded many times, ie gas man, When June calmed her down.
Maybe the rejection by Colin was the final straw.
If that's the case then why call the police at all?
So he figured, "I´ll help her move her stuff, then, surely, she won´t talk!"...... Hmm, I don´t think he would have DUMPED her in the first place if he had such concerns.
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Going back to the original post, the timeline of the calls is a little odd. If JB got a call from Nevill at 3:10 and didn't call the police until 3:36, what was he doing in the intervening 26 mins? That's a long time to wait if you are worried your sister is threatening your parents with a gun ???
Bob, Jeremy had witnessed all this before.
Shiela [poor soul] had exploded many times, ie gas man, When June calmed her down.
Maybe the rejection by Colin was the final straw.
Cliff, when you say "gas man" I guess you are referring to the alleged incident with the electricity meter reader?
If so, the only source I have seen for this incident is a posting by Mike, and that mentioned the wrong electricity company, so looks a bit suspect. Have you a better source for that story?
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Going back to the original post, the timeline of the calls is a little odd. If JB got a call from Nevill at 3:10 and didn't call the police until 3:36, what was he doing in the intervening 26 mins? That's a long time to wait if you are worried your sister is threatening your parents with a gun ???
Bob, Jeremy had witnessed all this before.
Shiela [poor soul] had exploded many times, ie gas man, When June calmed her down.
Maybe the rejection by Colin was the final straw.
If that's the case then why call the police at all?
Bob, in my mind it had escalalated from previous occurances. With this in mind I can see why Nevill sought Jeremy,s help. This was something he had not seen before.
By the way Bob can you start the thread that you spoke about, as I think it was interesting, and will help in determining the chaff from the wheat,or visa versa.
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Going back to the original post, the timeline of the calls is a little odd. If JB got a call from Nevill at 3:10 and didn't call the police until 3:36, what was he doing in the intervening 26 mins? That's a long time to wait if you are worried your sister is threatening your parents with a gun ???
Bob, Jeremy had witnessed all this before.
Shiela [poor soul] had exploded many times, ie gas man, When June calmed her down.
Maybe the rejection by Colin was the final straw.
In fact the rejection of Colin perhaps was the straw that broke the camel's back? She perhaps felt that there was nowhere else to go and that everything was going to work out for the worst?
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Going back to the original post, the timeline of the calls is a little odd. If JB got a call from Nevill at 3:10 and didn't call the police until 3:36, what was he doing in the intervening 26 mins? That's a long time to wait if you are worried your sister is threatening your parents with a gun ???
Bob, Jeremy had witnessed all this before.
Shiela [poor soul] had exploded many times, ie gas man, When June calmed her down.
Maybe the rejection by Colin was the final straw.
If that's the case then why call the police at all?
Bob, in my mind it had escalalated from previous occurances. With this in mind I can see why Nevill sought Jeremy,s help. This was something he had not seen before.
By the way Bob can you start the thread that you spoke about, as I think it was interesting, and will help in determining the chaff from the wheat,or visa versa.
What thread was that Cliff? I already started the one about JB & Sheila's relationship which I mentioned earlier
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Going back to the original post, the timeline of the calls is a little odd. If JB got a call from Nevill at 3:10 and didn't call the police until 3:36, what was he doing in the intervening 26 mins? That's a long time to wait if you are worried your sister is threatening your parents with a gun ???
Bob, Jeremy had witnessed all this before.
Shiela [poor soul] had exploded many times, ie gas man, When June calmed her down.
Maybe the rejection by Colin was the final straw.
If that's the case then why call the police at all?
Bob, in my mind it had escalalated from previous occurances. With this in mind I can see why Nevill sought Jeremy,s help. This was something he had not seen before.
By the way Bob can you start the thread that you spoke about, as I think it was interesting, and will help in determining the chaff from the wheat,or visa versa.
What thread was that Cliff? I already started the one about JB & Sheila's relationship which I mentioned earlier
Sorry Bob I will look for it