Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: nugnug on July 18, 2017, 09:44:PM

Title: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: nugnug on July 18, 2017, 09:44:PM
a policeman seeing a riffel that wasnt there and 3 policeman seeing a person that wasnt there.

what are the chances of that.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Caroline on July 19, 2017, 07:30:PM
a policeman seeing a riffel that wasnt there and 3 policeman seeing a person that wasnt there.

what are the chances of that.

No, a policeman mistaking some other object for a rifle, not a trick of the light.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Roch on July 19, 2017, 09:28:PM
No, a policeman mistaking some other object for a rifle, not a trick of the light.

There were two officers who expressed in their statements the sighting of a rifle-like object. 
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: nugnug on July 19, 2017, 09:39:PM
the police dont seem to be doing very well here they see 2 things that aperantly arnt there but then compound it failing to see to objects that aparently are there.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 19, 2017, 09:48:PM
There were two officers who expressed in their statements the sighting of a rifle-like object.
Is this the rifle that was found upstairs in the window?
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: nugnug on July 20, 2017, 12:03:AM
yes i belive so.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Adam on July 20, 2017, 06:54:AM
a policeman seeing a riffel that wasnt there and 3 policeman seeing a person that wasnt there.

what are the chances of that.

Are you saying the police from outside saw a rifle by an upstairs window in the dark ? Otherwise what are you referring to ?

As it happens there was a rifle there.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 20, 2017, 08:25:AM
That's what was reported and yes there was a rifle there, WE said Neville would never of left a gun out like that especially with the children there.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Jane on July 20, 2017, 08:34:AM
That's what was reported and yes there was a rifle there, WE said Neville would never of left a gun out like that especially with the children there.

I read so many posts which tell me that X would "never" do...................A golden rule in life is never say never. "Stuff" generally happens on those occasions that we fail to do those things we "never" DON'T do.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Adam on July 20, 2017, 08:43:AM
That's what was reported and yes there was a rifle there, WE said Neville would never of left a gun out like that especially with the children there.

I thought Nevill ( and June) left a fully loaded rifle out in the kitchen which Sheila took.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: maggie on July 20, 2017, 08:50:AM
I thought Nevill ( and June) left a fully loaded rifle out in the kitchen which Sheila took.
We don't know the answer to that do we Adam?  We only have JB's word for that and if he's the killer his word is hardly his bond.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: maggie on July 20, 2017, 08:54:AM
I read so many posts which tell me that X would "never" do...................A golden rule in life is never say never. "Stuff" generally happens on those occasions that we fail to do those things we "never" DON'T do.
I completely agree with you Jane. We cannot make assumptions on anyone's behaviour. A split second can change an action and change everything.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: maggie on July 20, 2017, 08:59:AM
That's what was reported and yes there was a rifle there, WE said Neville would never of left a gun out like that especially with the children there.
I gather you meant AE?  AE had no idea whether the rifle was left by JB, if so whether Nevill put it away etc.  It's all opinion and assumption which doesn't prove anything.  Who knows the answer... guilty JB knows, innocent JB knows he left the rifle out but no more.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 20, 2017, 08:59:AM
I completely agree with you Jane. We cannot make assumptions on anyone's behaviour. A split second can change an action and change everything.

Maybe the split second decision was made when Neville removed the gun from Sheila?
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: maggie on July 20, 2017, 09:14:AM
Maybe the split second decision was made when Neville removed the gun from Sheila?
We will never know  :-\
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Caroline on July 20, 2017, 10:26:AM
There were two officers who expressed in their statements the sighting of a rifle-like object.

Out of how many? Do you know if they independently came up with that or did they discuss with each other?
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Caroline on July 20, 2017, 10:27:AM
That's what was reported and yes there was a rifle there, WE said Neville would never of left a gun out like that especially with the children there.

There was no rifle n the window until after photographs were taken.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 20, 2017, 10:31:AM
There was no rifle n the window until after photographs were taken.


Where did the rifle come from then? They can't go altering a crime scene "can they?"
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Caroline on July 20, 2017, 10:40:AM

Where did the rifle come from then? They can't go altering a crime scene "can they?"

They took pictures of Sheila with the rifle on her chest, when they finished doing that, they removed it from her body to make it safe. They had to remove it eventually - they had all the CS pictures they required so how is that altering the CS?
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 20, 2017, 10:48:AM
They took pictures of Sheila with the rifle on her chest, when they finished doing that, they removed it from her body to make it safe. They had to remove it eventually - they had all the CS pictures they required so how is that altering the CS?

Because all pictures should of been taken before anything was moved at all,
Crime scene photos are supposed to show the scene as found not after they've finished pissing about moving things, then it's not a true depiction on what was there on entering.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Caroline on July 20, 2017, 10:58:AM
Because all pictures should of been taken before anything was moved at all,
Crime scene photos are supposed to show the scene as found not after they've finished pissing about moving things, then it's not a true depiction on what was there on entering.

I guess they didn't realise that years after it would be used to form a conspiracy theory. However, the window in the photograph looks out onto the front of the house, Jeaps was at the kitchen side of the house, so unless she can see around corners, the story of how the rifle came to be standing against the main bedroom window (and the fact that they photographed it and have allowed it to be in the public domain) is perfectly reasonable.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 20, 2017, 10:59:AM
I guess they didn't realise that years after it would be used to form a conspiracy theory. However, the window in the photograph looks out onto the front of the house, Jeaps was at the kitchen side of the house, so unless she can see around corners, the story of how the rifle came to be standing against the main bedroom window (and the fact that they photographed it and have allowed it to be in the public domain) is perfectly reasonable.

In Ann eatons statement it says that she's was told.by the police that was where it was found, it wasn't the murder weapon was it? Surely that would of been bagged?
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Caroline on July 20, 2017, 11:03:AM
In Ann eatons statement it says that she's was told.by the police that was where it was found, it wasn't the murder weapon was it? Surely that would of been bagged?

The rifle in the window WAS the murder weapon.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 20, 2017, 11:41:AM
The rifle in the window WAS the murder weapon.

So it wasn't put in a forensics bag etc? Just chucked casually up against a window in another room Lol, you couldn't make this up
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Adam on July 20, 2017, 12:08:PM
The rifle in the window WAS the murder weapon.

Have you got a source it was the murder weapon ?

It probably was. The police taking it off Sheila after photos had been taken. Then taking pictures of other rooms.

Was the rifle by the window in a room which had not had any shootings ?
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 20, 2017, 12:13:PM
Have you got a source it was the murder weapon ?

It probably was. The police taking it off Sheila after photos had been taken. Then taking pictures of other rooms.

Was the rifle by the window in a room which had not had any shootings ?

I don't think it was the murder weapon
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: nugnug on July 20, 2017, 12:18:PM
There was no rifle n the window until after photographs were taken.

so a police officer makes a statement that they saw a riffle in exactly the same place a riffle was phographed in rathere a strange coincidence.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 20, 2017, 12:19:PM
so a police officer makes a statement that they saw a riffle in exactly the same place a riffle was phographed in rathere a strange coincidence.

Makes no sense does it
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Adam on July 20, 2017, 12:21:PM
I don't think it was the murder weapon

Hopefully a source can be supplied. Which room it was in & whether it was the murder weapon.

The picture of this rifle shows there is no possibility of anyone seeing it from outside. So I am not sure where there has been a 'trick of the light'.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: nugnug on July 20, 2017, 01:05:PM
Makes no sense does it

well i cant really understand why they would want to photgraph in that particarly spot if  it wasnt there couldent they photograph it were they found it.

and if they dident think it had anything to do with the shooting why photograph it at all.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Jane on July 20, 2017, 01:09:PM
well i cant really understand why they would want to photgraph in that particarly spot if  it wasnt there couldent they photograph it were they found it.

and if they dident think it had anything to do with the shooting why photograph it at all.

Equally, why did they photograph clothes strew haphazardly over a chair? The answer in the cases of both chair and rifle MAY be because they happened to be there?
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: nugnug on July 20, 2017, 01:18:PM
Equally, why did they photograph clothes strew haphazardly over a chair? The answer in the cases of both chair and rifle MAY be because they happened to be there?

exactly and that means there was a riffle laying around the house that hadn't been put away.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Jane on July 20, 2017, 01:30:PM
exactly and that means there was a riffle laying around the house that hadn't been put away.

So what happened to the insistence that Nevill would NEVER have left a firearm out?
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 20, 2017, 01:35:PM
So what happened to the insistence that Nevill would NEVER have left a firearm out?

You should ask Ann Eaton that jane, she seemed pretty insistent in her statement
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: nugnug on July 20, 2017, 01:37:PM
Are you saying the police from outside saw a rifle by an upstairs window in the dark ? Otherwise what are you referring to ?

As it happens there was a rifle there.

well isnt it rather a strange coincedence.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Caroline on July 20, 2017, 07:34:PM
Have you got a source it was the murder weapon ?

It probably was. The police taking it off Sheila after photos had been taken. Then taking pictures of other rooms.

Was the rifle by the window in a room which had not had any shootings ?

The room was the main bedroom and yes there is a source - it's in Cook's court evidence.

Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Adam on July 20, 2017, 07:52:PM
The room was the main bedroom and yes there is a source - it's in Cook's court evidence.

So the police took photos of Sheila as she was found. Then moved the rifle to  another room where no shooting took place. It was photographed later.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Jan on July 20, 2017, 09:43:PM
So the police took photos of Sheila as she was found. Then moved the rifle to  another room where no shooting took place. It was photographed later.

No . There are various reports of when the rifle was moved and why and why it was made safe . Then allegedly in photo 23 iit is shown in the window of the main bedroom . But in photos numbered later it is back on Sheila's body .

The rifle seen by jeapes was in another window and we do not have crime scene photo of that room .
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Adam on July 20, 2017, 09:58:PM
No . There are various reports of when the rifle was moved and why and why it was made safe . Then allegedly in photo 23 iit is shown in the window of the main bedroom . But in photos numbered later it is back on Sheila's body .

The rifle seen by jeapes was in another window and we do not have crime scene photo of that room .

Caroline has provided a source of what happened.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2017, 09:46:AM
I guess they didn't realise that years after it would be used to form a conspiracy theory. However, the window in the photograph looks out onto the front of the house, Jeaps was at the kitchen side of the house, so unless she can see around corners, the story of how the rifle came to be standing against the main bedroom window (and the fact that they photographed it and have allowed it to be in the public domain) is perfectly reasonable.

The key question, is when was the rifle in photograph no. 23 taken? And whom by?

During the trial, PC Bird (second SOCO team who started taking photographs from 10am, onward), and DI 'Ron' Cook (second SOCO team to examine and take photographs that same morning), both stated that PC Bird had taken photograph no. 23, and Cook said he had removed the rifle in question from Sheila's body and that he had stood it there at the main bedroom window, where PC Bird subsequently photographed it! But, Bird and Cook lied! If they hadn't lied, the photographic evidence which showed Sheila's body in possession of that gun would never have been shown to the jury, it would have been deemed inadmissable, because the fact is, that PC Bird only photographed the said rifle in Sheila Caffells possession, after photograph no. 23 had been taken showing the same rifle at the main bedroom window! Now, it goes without saying too much further, that Jeremy Bamber did not stage his sister's death scene on the main bedroom floor with that rifle, because the police did! The fact that police went to the trouble of doing such a despicable thing has nothing to do with Jeremy Bamber! Since how can he have forced or tricked the cops into staging his sister's death on the main bedroom floor when he was outside in the company of other police officers or even back at his cottage with DS Jones and DC Clark by that stage?
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2017, 09:51:AM
The key question, is when was the rifle in photograph no. 23 taken? And whom by?

During the trial, PC Bird (second SOCO team who started taking photographs from 10am, onward), and DI 'Ron' Cook (second SOCO team to examine and take photographs that same morning), both stated that PC Bird had taken photograph no. 23, and Cook said he had removed the rifle in question from Sheila's body and that he had stood it there at the main bedroom window, where PC Bird subsequently photographed it! But, Bird and Cook lied! If they hadn't lied, the photographic evidence which showed Sheila's body in possession of that gun would never have been shown to the jury, it would have been deemed inadmissable, because the fact is, that PC Bird only photographed the said rifle in Sheila Caffells possession, after photograph no. 23 had been taken showing the same rifle at the main bedroom window! Now, it goes without saying too much further, that Jeremy Bamber did not stage his sister's death scene on the main bedroom floor with that rifle, because the police did! The fact that police went to the trouble of doing such a despicable thing has nothing to do with Jeremy Bamber! Since how can he have forced or tricked the cops into staging his sister's death on the main bedroom floor when he was outside in the company of other police officers or even back at his cottage with DS Jones and DC Clark by that stage?

Here is the documentary police evidence which proves that photograph no. 23 which shows a view of the anshuzt rifle at the main bedroom window, was taken before the said rifle was photographed on Sheila's body in photographs, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33..

Further more, Ron Cook could not have removed the rifle from Sheila's body as he falsely contended whist giving his evidence, and placed it at the main bedroom window as per photograph no.23 because the rifle as shown in photograph 23 was resting near the window before it was moved onto Sheila Caffells body, which contradicts what Cook said insofar as he claimed he only removed the rifle from Sheila's body once PC Bird had completed photographing Sheila and June in the main bedroom! His testimony was plainly false and the court was deceived! Cook had to lie, and so did Bird, otherwise the photographic evidence showing Sheila in possession of that rifle could not be relied upon! In fact, it would then have been open to defence counsel to accuse the police of deliberately interferring with a crime scene, etc, etc, etc...
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2017, 10:08:AM
Study PC Birds photographic schedule, and the Stokenchurch / COLP photographic schedule, and satisfy yourselves that photograph no. 23 was taken prior to the photographs (26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33) showing the same rifle in Sheila Caffells possession! The facts are all there in the police records, cops and not Bamber, staged Sheila Caffells death scene! Cops presented her death on the main bedroom floor as a suicide!
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Jan on July 21, 2017, 01:08:PM
Study PC Birds photographic schedule, and the Stokenchurch / COLP photographic schedule, and satisfy yourselves that photograph no. 23 was taken prior to the photographs (26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33) showing the same rifle in Sheila Caffells possession! The facts are all there in the police records, cops and not Bamber, staged Sheila Caffells death scene! Cops presented her death on the main bedroom floor as a suicide!

going to have a look at this later as it is quite a lot to absorb

Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Jane on July 21, 2017, 02:28:PM
You should ask Ann Eaton that jane, she seemed pretty insistent in her statement

It's not a question I need to ask, Lucy. Ann can be as insistent as she likes. She isn't in control of anyone's life but her own. She therefore CANNOT say, with any authority, that Nevill always did..................the most she could say was what she believed his usual habit to be.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Adam on July 21, 2017, 02:38:PM
I still don't know what this second trick of the light Nugs has created a thread on is supposed to be.

I did ask in reply 28 . But got no response.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Adam on July 21, 2017, 02:41:PM
a policeman seeing a riffel that wasnt there and 3 policeman seeing a person that wasnt there.

what are the chances of that.

Where & when did a policeman see a rifle that wasn't there.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: mike tesko on July 21, 2017, 02:44:PM
going to have a look at this later as it is quite a lot to absorb

Yeah, but - Ann Eaton was told by DS 'Stan' Jones, and DC Mick Clarke, that Sheila's body was on the bed, with a bible on her chest, and the rifle inbetweem both bodies on the bedll..

Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Jan on July 21, 2017, 05:54:PM
Where & when did a policeman see a rifle that wasn't there.


Well if the rifle was in the window where reported Sheila was moving about in the house and put it there for a period of time . So perhaps you should clarify your question.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Adam on July 21, 2017, 06:05:PM

Well if the rifle was in the window where reported Sheila was moving about in the house and put it there for a period of time . So perhaps you should clarify your question.

I think Nugs should give a bit more detail in his thread post.

Where & when did a policeman see a rifle that wasn't there. As one of the two 'tricks of light'.

The photo of the rifle by the window was the murder weapon. A source was supplied yesterday.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Jan on July 21, 2017, 10:01:PM
I think Nugs should give a bit more detail in his thread post.

Where & when did a policeman see a rifle that wasn't there. As one of the two 'tricks of light'.

The photo of the rifle by the window was the murder weapon. A source was supplied yesterday.

??? Adam

Jeapes saw a rifle at a window BEFORE they entered the house .

The rifle was allegedly put in the window AFTER they went in


Start again
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Steve_uk on July 21, 2017, 10:20:PM
??? Adam

Jeapes saw a rifle at a window BEFORE they entered the house .

The rifle was allegedly put in the window AFTER they went in


Start again
I've asked for a timeline of who saw what when and from which position, but to no avail.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Adam on July 22, 2017, 08:16:AM
??? Adam

Jeapes saw a rifle at a window BEFORE they entered the house .

The rifle was allegedly put in the window AFTER they went in


Start again

It's not a case of starting again. Nugs needed to be more specific in his thread post. Which was only 21 words.

I did ask him for more details in replies 28 & 44 but got no response.

Anyway 4 pages in, I now know. Jeapes thought he saw something in the bedroom window which looked like a rifle. A source has been supplied which says the photo of the rifle was the rifle moved from Sheila. Jeapes must have been wrong.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Lucy522 on July 22, 2017, 01:33:PM
I.presume the other "trick of the light" was the person moving upstairs
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: Jan on July 22, 2017, 10:21:PM
I still don't know what this second trick of the light Nugs has created a thread on is supposed to be.

I did ask in reply 28 . But got no response.

Yes you do . The figure in the window.
Title: Re: 2 tricks of the light.
Post by: mike tesko on July 22, 2017, 11:44:PM
It's not a case of starting again. Nugs needed to be more specific in his thread post. Which was only 21 words.

I did ask him for more details in replies 28 & 44 but got no response.

Anyway 4 pages in, I now know. Jeapes thought he saw something in the bedroom window which looked like a rifle. A source has been supplied which says the photo of the rifle was the rifle moved from Sheila. Jeapes must have been wrong.

WPC Jeapes was not wrong!