Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: David1819 on May 13, 2017, 05:59:PM
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I am not sure if this has been posted before. But it seems the alleged suicide note and a sample of Sheila's handwriting from a letter written by her in 1982. Were kept as separate items together under the same file [57] in the 1991 COLP enquiry.
This would suggest.
A) The authorities were aware of its significance.
B) The alleged suicide note is not the ramblings of a Psychic as some have suggested.
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Are they both supposed to be the same written hand ? Because they're not to my mind. And there's a spelling mistake too.
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Are they both supposed to be the same written hand ? Because they're not to my mind. And there's a spelling mistake too.
::)
There's no doubt that both are written by Sheila,the latter you can detect a change,so yes.It doesn't take a Philadelphia lawyer to work that one out.
How much do they get paid for doing this ? I think I'll go to the job centre tomorrow !!
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How long does it take for a suicide note to be analysed? At this rate Jeremy will be drawing his pension before any future appeal is lodged.
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::)
Okay,I hold my hands up to that,but is it the same paper which has been shown before ?
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I don't remember seeing the number 57. Wasn't it a letter to/from Peter in the USA ?
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Hi David, I have removed Ricky Gervais from your reply to Lookout because I'm sick of it AND can't stand looking at it anymore. To my mind it's a way of trying to get away with being abusive so can you please stop posting that or similar. Cheers
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I don't remember seeing the number 57. Wasn't it a letter to/from Peter in the USA ?
To be fair. Its the same note but not the same page. Three of the five pages are written very erratically.
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In one letter Sheila mentions " syc " a few times,which I used to think it referred to the psychiatrist,but it could refer to a psychic which she and Colin often went to visit. They were into that sort of thing. It would make sense that if during her visits Sheila would jot certain things down that the psychic picked out. This is why the letters appear in riddles at times.
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Unless they thought West's log was also a suicide note by Sheila I believe 57 is the box number not the file number.
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Unless they thought West's log was also a suicide note by Sheila I believe 57 is the box number not the file number.
Nice try Caroline.
Point being the alleged suicide note is genuine evidence. I think you realise that.
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Nice try Caroline.
Point being the alleged suicide note is genuine evidence. I think you realise that.
No David, you made a boob! Ricky Gervais yourself! You said it was in the same file, it wasn't, it was in the same BOX along with West's log and no doubt a whole host of other documents. You jumped to conclusions like always do. ::)
'The I think you realise that' is a tactic you use to try and persuade others that people should think like you. I don't think like you and if you're going to talk about The Gish Gallop - look no further than yourself ..................................
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I am not sure if this has been posted before. But it seems the alleged suicide note and a sample of Sheila's handwriting from a letter written by her in 1982. Were kept as separate items together under the same file [57] in the 1991 COLP enquiry.
This would suggest.
A) The authorities were aware of its significance.
B) The alleged suicide note is not the ramblings of a Psychic as some have suggested.
I thought it was easy to identify someone's handwriting ?
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No David, you made a boob! Ricky Gervais yourself! You said it was in the same file, it wasn't, it was in the same BOX along with West's log and no doubt a whole host of other documents. You jumped to conclusions like always do. ::)
'The I think you realise that' is a tactic you use to try and persuade others that people should think like you. I don't think like you and if you're going to talk about The Gish Gallop - look no further than yourself ..................................
Try reading my post again. Box/File what's the difference?
Clearly this is bothering you. Stay mad 8)
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Try reading my post again. Box/File what's the difference?
Clearly this is bothering you. Stay mad 8)
You're attempting to link two items intimately together because they were stored together at one time.
Whilst it appears that they were stored together, it was also alongside a box full of other paperwork which dilutes your suggested tenuous intimate link.
Why do you lash out when corrected, why not just say oh okay, my mistake. :-\
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You're attempting to link two items intimately together because they were stored together at one time.
Whilst it appears that they were stored together, it was also alongside a box full of other paperwork which dilutes your suggested tenuous intimate link.
Why do you lash out when corrected, why not just say oh okay, my mistake. :-\
Exactly Hartley - David is the king of the tenuous link.
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Try reading my post again. Box/File what's the difference?
Clearly this is bothering you. Stay mad 8)
Well, there is a BIG difference - examples below! Now unless you can explain why West's log was in the same box/file as a letter/note found somewhere at the scene or at Sheila's flat (we don't know where or when it was found), linking the two is indeed 'tenuous' - but you have a habit of doing that.
Bothering me? No, I laughed because I knew West's og was in box 57 and I know the difference between a box and a file.
(http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/images/products/fj%C3%A4lla-box-with-lid-off-white__0321562_pe515963_s4.jpg)
(http://www.marbig.com.au/products/img/zoom/z90066%20Marbig%20File%20Jacket%20Manilla%20FC%20DEI.jpg)
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I thought it was easy to identify someone's handwriting ?
A while back I looked for identical words. And compared them. Not easy IMO
(https://s29.postimg.org/tlil22amf/writing2.jpg)
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A while back I looked for identical words. And compared them. Not easy IMO
(https://s29.postimg.org/tlil22amf/writing2.jpg)
It's easy to compare them.
It seems more difficult to acknowledge that they are different though.
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It's " curly " writing,isn't it ? The word " with " looks similar on both.
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Well, there is a BIG difference - examples below! Now unless you can explain why West's log was in the same box/file as a letter/note found somewhere at the scene or at Sheila's flat (we don't know where or when it was found), linking the two is indeed 'tenuous' - but you have a habit of doing that.
Bothering me? No, I laughed because I knew West's og was in box 57 and I know the difference between a box and a file.
::)
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It's easy to compare them.
It seems more difficult to acknowledge that they are different though.
If its not Sheila then who is it? Its in the same file (synonyms:folder, portfolio, binder, box) with actual case evidence including Sheila's handwriting sample. Thus this is case related and not the ramblings of a psychic that some have claimed it to be.
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Have we seen Jeremy's " joined-up " writing ?
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::)
Giving you the benefit of doubt regarding your choice of words, and then presuming that you were aware that a whole box full of papers stored together with no particular common connection. Then all I can say is that your conclusion that some mystery significance was previously known about a letter or note, is a little bit odd. I don't personally see how such a conclusion has been reached. ???
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Giving you the benefit of doubt regarding your choice of words, and then presuming that you were aware that a whole box full of papers stored together with no particular common connection. Then all I can say is that your conclusion that some mystery significance was previously known about a letter or note, is a little bit odd. I don't personally see how such a conclusion has been reached. ???
He'll now start to peddle it into his now every convoluted description. The FACT that other unrelated items were in this BOX won't of course be mentioned - well, not by him anyway.
As for the letter, it may bell have been written by Sheila, so what? It's no suicide note and no one knows were it was actually taken from. It's certainly NOT the note found on the bedside table.
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He'll now start to peddle it into his now every convoluted description. The FACT that other unrelated items were in this BOX won't of course be mentioned - well, not by him anyway.
As for the letter, it may bell have been written by Sheila, so what? It's no suicide note and no one knows were it was actually taken from. It's certainly NOT the note found on the bedside table.
He could have just admitted that he made a mistake.
Mind, he didn't do that with the bullet manufacturer correction which basically made his convoluted GSR breakthrough obsolete. Never mind.
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He could have just admitted that he made a mistake.
Mind, he didn't do that with the bullet manufacturer correction which basically made his convoluted GSR breakthrough obsolete. Never mind.
Yes, he could have but it seems to be a running theme here. Sadly, he's not alone in that.
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Jeremy's " joined-up " writing anyone ? Do we have any samples ?
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Jeremy's " joined-up " writing anyone ? Do we have any samples ?
Why? The point of the notes is really not who wrote them, it's if they constitute a suicide note. Personally, I don't believe it reads like a suicide note at all. It's also important to determine 'where' it was found and we don't know that.
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Why? The point of the notes is really not who wrote them, it's if they constitute a suicide note. Personally, I don't believe it reads like a suicide note at all. It's also important to determine 'where' it was found and we don't know that.
It's got everything to do with who wrote them regardless of what they are.It's an investigation,isn't it ?
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It's got everything to do with who wrote them regardless of what they are.It's an investigation,isn't it ?
Not if they have no relevance.
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Not if they have no relevance.
It'll depend on how awkward the CCRC want to be.
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It'll depend on how awkward the CCRC want to be.
So not whether there is quality in what id being presented? ::)
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So not whether there is quality in what id being presented? ::)
Of course there has to be,but whether it'll make any difference during presentation we've yet to see.
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Of course there has to be,but whether it'll make any difference during presentation we've yet to see.
Indeed.
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Skimming through CAL's book,the letter from June ( which I always thought of as odd ) had only recently been written,prior to the tragedy." Apologizing for the way his,JB's,mother had treated him".??
It was Sheila who was hard done by.
Why June wrote such a letter,I don't know because she was only 60 and had good health.
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Skimming through CAL's book,the letter from June ( which I always thought of as odd ) had only recently been written,prior to the tragedy." Apologizing for the way his,JB's,mother had treated him".??
It was Sheila who was hard done by.
Why June wrote such a letter,I don't know because she was only 60 and had good health.
Eh? You've been pushing how she'd been under the doctor!!!!! Why the change of mind?
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Eh? You've been pushing how she'd been under the doctor!!!!! Why the change of mind?
I'm going by what the pathologist said about her being healthy.
We don't know why she was seeing her GP,do we ?
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Interesting video on Bambertweets site re.Dr Ferguson's incompetence. No surprise,then ::)
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Interesting video on Bambertweets site re.Dr Ferguson's incompetence. No surprise,then ::)
just watched it lookout, very interesting.
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just watched it lookout, very interesting.
I've always had my doubts about him,notsure.
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As a psychiatrist,he hadn't attached any seriousness to either patients and had been quite happy to dismiss the thought that neither would have been a threat.
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As a psychiatrist,he hadn't attached any seriousness to either patients and had been quite happy to dismiss the thought that neither would have been a threat.
There is one BIG difference between these two patients - medication!
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As a psychiatrist,he hadn't attached any seriousness to either patients and had been quite happy to dismiss the thought that neither would have been a threat.
another one covering his own backside .
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There is one BIG difference between these two patients - medication!
it's stalemate Caroline between innocents and guilters.
guilters think shiela couldn't hold a conversation or put beans on a plate, innocents think her illness reared it's ugly head and she was completely capable.
We just go round and round. I'm getting dizzy lol 😀
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it's stalemate Caroline between innocents and guilters.
guilters think shiela couldn't hold a conversation or put beans on a plate, innocents think her illness reared it's ugly head and she was completely capable.
We just go round and round. I'm getting dizzy lol 😀
It's not stalemate. Although supporters would accept that.
The mountain of forensic evidence shows Sheila was not the killer.
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it's stalemate Caroline between innocents and guilters.
guilters think shiela couldn't hold a conversation or put beans on a plate, innocents think her illness reared it's ugly head and she was completely capable.
We just go round and round. I'm getting dizzy lol 😀
That's the problem with using an all inclusive banner such as 'guiltiers'? I don't believe that Sheila couldn't hold a conversation or put beans on a plate. However, it is clear that she had little motivation for anything, lacked energy and was described as being 'overly sedated'. Even as late as 10pm, she had no motivation to talk with Pam and the fact that she was taking her medication makes it VERY unlikely that she was the killer.
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There is one BIG difference between these two patients - medication!
Yes quite.Ferguson " remembered " that her condition had improved since she'd been over-sedated with HALF the amount that he'd originally given to her ::)
Although she'd stated " one of her twins could have sex with her, and she could murder them " he thought it quite in order that someone could speak like that,so ignored it ! Gross Incompetence !!
It just sickens me.
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That's the problem with using an all inclusive banner such as 'guiltiers'? I don't believe that Sheila couldn't hold a conversation or put beans on a plate. However, it is clear that she had little motivation for anything, lacked energy and was described as being 'overly sedated'. Even as late as 10pm, she had no motivation to talk with Pam and the fact that she was taking her medication makes it VERY unlikely that she was the killer.
Then came to life in the early hours.
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Yes quite.Ferguson " remembered " that her condition had improved since she'd been over-sedated with HALF the amount that he'd originally given to her ::)
Although she'd stated " one of her twins could have sex with her, and she could murder them " he thought it quite in order that someone could speak like that,so ignored it ! Gross Incompetence !!
It just sickens me.
No, he didn't ignore it, he prescribed medication and that is what she was taking. Her autopsy showed that she still have a moderate dose in her system, even though she was due her next injection.
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Then came to life in the early hours.
She came to death in the early hours.
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Then came to life in the early hours.
Nevill ringing Bamber to calm things down. ::)
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I suspect Sheila was lifeless while Bamber was at supper. As confirmed by PB.
Bamber knew Sheila would be easy to control later on.
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It's not stalemate. Although supporters would accept that.
The mountain of forensic evidence shows Sheila was not the killer.
You can repeat it as many times as you like. Saying a mountain exists does not actually make it real.
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The mountain of forensic evidence shows Sheila was not the killer.
All of the forensic evidence implicates Sheila. That's why things have gone missing and been destroyed.
There are some things that weren't destroyed.
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All of the forensic evidence implicates Sheila. That's why things have gone missing and been destroyed.
There are some things that weren't destroyed.
The lack or forensic evidence ON Sheila shows she couldn't be involved.
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It's very cleverly collated but no mention of Jeremy in the equation at all. https://youtu.be/QtyuDO4VRN0
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The lack or forensic evidence ON Sheila shows she couldn't be involved.
Can you elaborate on that point, please?
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Can you elaborate on that point, please?
I think Caroline is referring to blood of other victims?
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I think Caroline is referring to blood of other victims?
Microspatter and DNA analysis was never carried out on Sheila's clothes. Could have been done today had they not destroyed it.
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No, he didn't ignore it, he prescribed medication and that is what she was taking. Her autopsy showed that she still have a moderate dose in her system, even though she was due her next injection.
I'll put it another way.If it had been Jeremy who'd spoken like that of the children,everyone,including myself would have blamed him for the murders---------wouldn't they ? Or is it different for a woman ?
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I'll put it another way.If it had been Jeremy who'd spoken like that of the children,everyone,including myself would have blamed him for the murders---------wouldn't they ? Or is it different for a woman ?
He said it of all five victims, but only to Julie.
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Is it normal or acceptable to tell someone thoughts like that in an ordinary conversation ?
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He said it of all five victims, but only to Julie.
What ? That they could have sex with him ? Or he could murder them ? I don't think so.
Where is this so-called conversation ?
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What ? That they could have sex with him ? Or he could murder them ? I don't think so.
Where is this so-called conversation ?
They both expressed a desire to kill. Ask Mike about his conversation with Jeremy about being his sister's proxy killer. I won't go into Jeremy's sexual anecdotes with Julie and others, which left him seeking treatment for gonorrhoea.
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I'll put it another way.If it had been Jeremy who'd spoken like that of the children,everyone,including myself would have blamed him for the murders---------wouldn't they ? Or is it different for a woman ?
He called them a millstone around Colin's neck.
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He called them a millstone around Colin's neck.
Said who ? Where's the proof ? Or is it another he said she said ploy ?
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Said who ? Where's the proof ? Or is it another he said she said ploy ?
I don't do ploys! Colin's book p27 last paragraph.
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I don't do ploys! Colin's book p27 last paragraph.
Is it in a statement ?
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Is it in a statement ?
His book.
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His book.
Statements work better than hearsay,unless you also believe Sheila when she told Helen Grimster that she had " attempted suicide several times " ?
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Statements work better than hearsay,unless you also believe Sheila when she told Helen Grimster that she had " attempted suicide several times " ?
This is Colin's book in his own words - it's not hearsay, it just leaves a nasty taste in your mouth - that's all ;)
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Statements work better than hearsay,unless you also believe Sheila when she told Helen Grimster that she had " attempted suicide several times " ?
The exact quote was "contemplated" not "attempted.". She was as desperate for company as Jeremy was, growing up in a home where displays of affection were discouraged. By the way, who was Susan Burgess? The name slips my mind. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,155.msg332.html#msg332
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For those who think armed police strom on in at the first opportunity;
http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2017-05-18/man-detained-following-burnopfield-siege/
And there was only one bloke in this house! :o
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For those who think armed police strom on in at the first opportunity;
http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2017-05-18/man-detained-following-burnopfield-siege/
And there was only one bloke in this house! :o
Yeah but was it within the last 50 years and did his name begin with a j and end in a y? If not then it's completely different. :P
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Considering the situation at WHF,EP wasted valuable time in not storming inside as they should have done. The case would have been closed from that moment on-----with Jeremy outside the property.
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For those who think armed police strom on in at the first opportunity;
http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2017-05-18/man-detained-following-burnopfield-siege/
And there was only one bloke in this house! :o
The people who make these suggestions live in the world of TVs cops, they have never seen a live armed siege and the planning and restraints involved.
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Considering the situation at WHF,EP wasted valuable time in not storming inside as they should have done. The case would have been closed from that moment on-----with Jeremy outside the property.
Well, that's not how things work but I do agree if they had, we wouldn't be debating this stuff 30 odd years later.
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The people who make these suggestions live in the world of TVs cops, they have never seen a live armed siege and the planning and restraints involved.
I agree Justice. This was under siege for about 24 hours - guy barricaded himself into his loft, hurled abuse at the police and threw the odd petrol bomb. They knew he was alive but not what ammunition he may have had. At WHF because there was no communication, I think they knew what they were going to find which is why they went in within 25 hours.
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I agree Justice. This was under siege for about 24 hours - guy barricaded himself into his loft, hurled abuse at the police and threw the odd petrol bomb. They knew he was alive but not what ammunition he may have had. At WHF because there was no communication, I think they knew what they were going to find which is why they went in within 25 hours.
Thats right Caroline, MET WITH NO RESPONSE, told them no one was alive, they would never have stormed WHF the way they did if they were in conversation with someone, they would have carried on talking and not gone as early as they did.
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Ferguson should have known or realised that the risk of suicide is quite high once a person leaves hospital,as it's usually 3 or 4 months later that a victim will take his/her life by acting on impulse. One of the highest triggers is loss------which Sheila had suffered. Antidepressants and antipsychotic drugs also carry a risk of suicide and those taking them should be closely watched and monitored for behavioural problems particularly after a loss. Imagine how Sheila would have felt after parting from Colin,then to have more uncertainty about the futures of her sons ? No woman could go through such traumas unscathed whether they already had problems or not.
Then the loss of her babies before having the twins. This would all have exacerbated her present condition.
Sheila had no support whatsoever which I find appalling and unforgivable.
No wonder Sheila's notes were full of anger ! This is sadly typical of those whose thoughts expressed rage,hatred,vengeance and self-loathing,of how their inner thoughts reacted to their overall feelings before they take their lives. They show the intensity of their feelings then the relief after having been expressed/written.
Style of the handwritten notes aside,the content will go a long way in reaching a conclusion of Sheila's mind at the time of writing them.
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Ferguson should have known or realised that the risk of suicide is quite high once a person leaves hospital,as it's usually 3 or 4 months later that a victim will take his/her life by acting on impulse. One of the highest triggers is loss------which Sheila had suffered. Antidepressants and antipsychotic drugs also carry a risk of suicide and those taking them should be closely watched and monitored for behavioural problems particularly after a loss. Imagine how Sheila would have felt after parting from Colin,then to have more uncertainty about the futures of her sons ? No woman could go through such traumas unscathed whether they already had problems or not.
Then the loss of her babies before having the twins. This would all have exacerbated her present condition.
Sheila had no support whatsoever which I find appalling and unforgivable.
No wonder Sheila's notes were full of anger ! This is sadly typical of those whose thoughts expressed rage,hatred,vengeance and self-loathing,of how their inner thoughts reacted to their overall feelings before they take their lives. They show the intensity of their feelings then the relief after having been expressed/written.
Style of the handwritten notes aside,the content will go a long way in reaching a conclusion of Sheila's mind at the time of writing them.
Especially after a loss? You do realise they had been split for years right? Nothing to suggest that Sheila was suicidal.
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Especially after a loss? You do realise they had been split for years right? Nothing to suggest that Sheila was suicidal.
Whether it had been years or not since her split with Colin,that loss never went away and her life hadn't improved at all,in fact her health had got worse. Since the split Sheila had had no stability, and for someone with a nervous disposition and no support from anyone could only lead to a downward spiral of depression. It also leads to keeping bad company such as Freddie the drug dealer,who Sheila had befriended and he her because she'd been vulnerable.
For Sheila speaking to Helen the way she did,about suicide,would,to me,have been an admittance of some attempt,or why say it ?
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Whether it had been years or not since her split with Colin,that loss never went away and her life hadn't improved at all,in fact her health had got worse. Since the split Sheila had had no stability, and for someone with a nervous disposition and no support from anyone could only lead to a downward spiral of depression. It also leads to keeping bad company such as Freddie the drug dealer,who Sheila had befriended and he her because she'd been vulnerable.
For Sheila speaking to Helen the way she did,about suicide,would,to me,have been an admittance of some attempt,or why say it ?
Those are simply your opinions about someone else's thoughts. We don't know that she wanted to get back with Colin and many people have had suicidal thoughts during desperate times - but they are no more than that.
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Those are simply your opinions about someone else's thoughts. We don't know that she wanted to get back with Colin and many people have had suicidal thoughts during desperate times - but they are no more than that.
To my mind,Sheila desperately needed help but hadn't known how to ask. No doubt it will all come together and prove that when/if we get to view all her notes,as well as her medical notes too.
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Sheila would have known that when writing her notes that in the brief timeframe she'd be dead.
These notes would be/are genuine suicide notes to my mind.