Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on May 07, 2017, 08:56:AM
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Mary Mugford's court testimony was a real eye opener. It made it clear that Bamber would feel no remorse if June died. I will post it below.
A supporter accused Mary Mugford yesterday of lying under oath but could not explain why Bamber agreed with her in his court testimony. Bamber also testified and has said on other occasions he had a poor relationship with June. For obvious reasons he never said this in such a forthright manner as Mary Mugford.
James Richards also testified that Bamber told him three times that he "hated his parents". Richards saying Bamber said this with venom. Bamber denied saying this & said Richards & everyone else in court had lied about him. Although Richards had no motive.
The judge asked Bamber why Richards would come to court and say this as well as telling Bamber to speak up as he unconvincingly accused Richards of lying.
It is a bit of a contradiction as Bamber is agreeing with Mary Mugford & saying himself he had a poor relationship with June, but then disagreeing with James Richards.
As a juror I would find both Mary Mugford & James Richards testimonies very influentical.
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Chapter 31, page 220 of Wilkes's book -
Julies mother Mary Mugford followed her daughter into the witness box.
She said 'Jeremy hated his mother & blamed her for turning Sheila mad. And he resented her for loving the twins more than him. Jeremy disliked his mother intensely & I felt he was more affectionate to me'.
'He used to call me mummy all the time. He offerred me his mothers small car which had been bought that Christmas. This was just after the shooting. A list had been drawn up and he was going to keep no momentoes, which I thought very strange. He wanted to sell everthing'.
'Jeremy resented his mother because she sent him away to boarding school. He never forgave her for that.
'Apparently she was a religious maniac'.
'A few months before the murders Jeremy had told me her mother was thinking of changing her will in favour of her grandsons, on whom she doted'.
'Jeremy never spoke to his mother & she never showed any affection towards him'.
'He often spoke of this'.
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Mary Mugford's court testimony was a real eye opener. It made it clear that Bamber would feel no remorse if June died. I will post it below.
A supporter accused Mary Mugford yesterday of lying under oath but could not explain why Bamber agreed with her in his court testimony. Bamber also testified and has said on other occasions he had a poor relationship with June. For obvious reasons he never said this in such a forthright manner as Mary Mugford.
James Richards also testified that Bamber told him three times that he "hated his parents". Richards saying Bamber said this with venom. Bamber denied saying this & said Richards & everyone else in court had lied about him. Although Richards had no motive.
The judge asked Bamber why Richards would come to court and say this as well as telling Bamber to speak up as he unconvincingly accused Richards of lying.
It is a bit of a contradiction as Bamber is agreeing with Mary Mugford & saying himself he had a poor relationship with June, but then disagreeing with James Richards.
As a juror I would find both Mary Mugford & James Richards testimonies very influentical.
I totally agree Adam and these facts appear ignored by his supporters. There is no evidence to support Bambers claims he got on with his parents, yet some can't see how's he manipulated them by the words in his blogs. And more importantly they appear to be missing the fact he never talks about his parents pre murders. His stories focus on his memories as a child. His omissions give him away! He avoids the subject like the plaque.
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118. James Richards, another student from Goldsmiths College who had met the appellant through Julie Mugford, heard him talk of his parents in about February 1985. He claimed they kept him short of money and that his mother was a religious freak. He said, "I fucking hate my parents
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
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I totally agree Adam and these facts appear ignored by his supporters. There is no evidence to support Bambers claims he got on with his parents, yet some can't see how's he manipulated them by the words in his blogs. And more importantly they appear to be missing the fact he never talks about his parents pre murders. His stories focus on his memories as a child. His omissions give him away! He avoids the subject like the plaque.
None of those friends of June and Nevill who are known to me, have ever spoken of a warm relationship. June never spoke about either of her children. This maybe because she felt less confident -motherlike?- as an adopted mother, than she believed biological mothers felt? OR, perhaps she wasn't particularly proud of either of them because they hadn't lived up to her expectations? Very telling was what I was told by Nevill's closest friend -he and his wife were frequent visitors to the Bambers and the Bambers visited them in return. B regularly witnessed the tension between Nevill and Jeremy but on one occasion it spilled over into a very angry and heated argument. Nevill was reduced to tears. B. cried when he relaid the story to me.
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A mother is a mother is a mother------------there's your answer.!!
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Chapter 31, page 220 of Wilkes's book -
Julies mother Mary Mugford followed her daughter into the witness box.
She said 'Jeremy hated his mother & blamed her for turning Sheila mad. And he resented her for loving the twins more than him. Jeremy disliked his mother intensely & I felt he was more affectionate to me'.
'He used to call me mummy all the time. He offerred me his mothers small car which had been bought that Christmas. This was just after the shooting. A list had been drawn up and he was going to keep no momentoes, which I thought very strange. He wanted to sell everthing'.
'Jeremy resented his mother because she sent him away to boarding school. He never forgave her for that.
'Apparently she was a religious maniac'.
'A few months before the murders Jeremy had told me her mother was thinking of changing her will in favour of her grandsons, on whom she doted'.
'Jeremy never spoke to his mother & she never showed any affection towards him'.
'He often spoke of this'.
Wilkes book has no citation index and no citation numbers. The author has taken liberties and wrote the whole book unconstrained by the factual evidence. The book belongs in the bin.
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A mother is a mother is a mother------------there's your answer.!!
In your opinion
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A mother is a mother is a mother------------there's your answer.!!
You have only the experience of YOUR mother and your own experience of being one. This doesn't qualify you to know how every other mother feels.
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"Financial restrictions also tend to often end up resulting in the same non-productive patterns. The mother will many times feel stressed out and guilty that the child doesn’t have the same rights and possessions of other children, and again tries to over-compensate in other ways. Once again, this sets the groundwork for the child to develop a selfish countenance.
A mother who refuses to cut the strings with her child is doing him a great disservice. Why would any mother want her son to develop a self-centered attitude under the guise that the world owes him something? This will be a huge obstacle for the child when he is left to fend for himself in the real world.
In both cases, these mothers need to understand that either dysfunctional relationship noted above is both destructive and dangerous to the child’s emotional and mental health. Many times these mothers refuse to see anything wrong with this parenting style. Others see very clearly that is in fact a form of child abuse.
http://www.actforlibraries.org/health/family/2013/12/dysfunctional-motherson-relationships.html
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I totally agree Adam and these facts appear ignored by his supporters. There is no evidence to support Bambers claims he got on with his parents, yet some can't see how's he manipulated them by the words in his blogs. And more importantly they appear to be missing the fact he never talks about his parents pre murders. His stories focus on his memories as a child. His omissions give him away! He avoids the subject like the plaque.
He spoke to Julie about his parents. Continuously. As stated in her WS & court testimony.
Julie was his closest confidant leading up to & after the massacre. Although he did briefly mention his hatred to other people. Such MM & James Richards.
He also mentions to Charles Marsden about burning down WHF & about killing his parents to RB.
After the massacre he says to Liz Rimmington 'only I know what really happened that night'.
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"Financial restrictions also tend to often end up resulting in the same non-productive patterns. The mother will many times feel stressed out and guilty that the child doesn’t have the same rights and possessions of other children, and again tries to over-compensate in other ways. Once again, this sets the groundwork for the child to develop a selfish countenance.
A mother who refuses to cut the strings with her child is doing him a great disservice. Why would any mother want her son to develop a self-centered attitude under the guise that the world owes him something? This will be a huge obstacle for the child when he is left to fend for himself in the real world
In both cases, these mothers need to understand that either dysfunctional relationship noted above is both destructive and dangerous to the child’s emotional and mental health. Many times these mothers refuse to see anything wrong with this parenting style. Others see very clearly that is in fact a form of child abuse.
http://www.actforlibraries.org/health/family/2013/12/dysfunctional-motherson-relationships.html
I've frequently seen that those women whose mothering skills are questionable are the very ones who hold themselves up -to other mothers- as examples of good mothering, ie "They wouldn't do/say that, go there/mix with those sorts if they were mine. I wouldn't allow it" OR "They'll do as I tell them while they live in my house"
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He spoke to Julie about his parents. Continuously. As stated in her WS & court testimony.
Julie was his closest confidant leading up to & after the massacre. Although he did briefly mention his hatred to other people. Such MM & James Richards.
He also mentions to Charles Marsden about burning down WHF & about killing his parents to RB.
After the massacre he says to Liz Rimmington 'only I know what really happened that night'.
It's occurred to me on many occasions that what JM put in her witness statement was probably not even the half of it.
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It's occurred to me on many occasions that what JM put in her witness statement was not even the half of it.
It is 34 pages. What do you think she missed out ? Why would she miss anything out ?
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It is 34 pages. What do you think she missed out ? Why would she miss anything out ?
She was in a relationship with Bamber for a few years; 34 pages isn't a lot really. How could she cover every detail? Would she have been able to recall every detail?
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In your opinion
Yes,in my opinion.
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She was in a relationship with Bamber for a few years; 34 pages isn't a lot really. How could she cover every detail? Would she have been able to recall every detail?
It was 18 months.
The WS was completed straight after she approached the police, so there may been things she forgot to say. Which would be to Bamber's benefit.
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Mary Mugford's court testimony was a real eye opener. It made it clear that Bamber would feel no remorse if June died. I will post it below.
A supporter accused Mary Mugford yesterday of lying under oath but could not explain why Bamber agreed with her in his court testimony. Bamber also testified and has said on other occasions he had a poor relationship with June. For obvious reasons he never said this in such a forthright manner as Mary Mugford.
James Richards also testified that Bamber told him three times that he "hated his parents". Richards saying Bamber said this with venom. Bamber denied saying this & said Richards & everyone else in court had lied about him. Although Richards had no motive.
The judge asked Bamber why Richards would come to court and say this as well as telling Bamber to speak up as he unconvincingly accused Richards of lying.
It is a bit of a contradiction as Bamber is agreeing with Mary Mugford & saying himself he had a poor relationship with June, but then disagreeing with James Richards.
As a juror I would find both Mary Mugford & James Richards testimonies very influentical.
In my opinion Mary Mugford had no motive to lie ...
But Jeremy and Sheila both disliked their parents strongly ....
They were both tied to their parents by financial strings ...
I am sure they had some good moments together with their parents ...
It is human nature that Jeremy would emphasise the good times and not the bad ....
He explained on interview his relationship with his mother had been "improving" ....
But because Sheila and Jeremy fundamentally disliked their parents ....
It brings us NO CLOSER to working out was it Jeremy or Sheila ?
Based on their dislike of their parents it was equally likely to have been either of them ....
Do not forget Sheila had some very strange thoughts about June and her children and a coven of evil ....
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In my opinion Mary Mugford had no motive to lie ...
But Jeremy and Sheila both disliked their parents strongly ....
They were both tied to their parents by financial strings ...
I am sure they had some good moments together with their parents ...
It is human nature that Jeremy would emphasise the good times and not the bad ....
He explained on interview his relationship with his mother had been "improving" ....
But because Sheila and Jeremy fundamentally disliked their parents ....
It brings us NO CLOSER to working out was it Jeremy or Sheila ?
Based on their dislike of their parents it was equally likely to have been either of them ....
Do not forget Sheila had some very strange thoughts about June and her children and a coven of evil ....
James Richards had no reason to lie either.
Bamber was an adult when he told Richards & MM. Not a sulking 9 year old.
Sheila got on well with Nevill & was a loving mother. She also got on fine with June. She was living with them all for a summer holiday.
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James Richards had no reason to lie either.
Bamber was an adult when he told Richards & MM. Not a sulking 9 year old.
Sheila got on well with Nevill & was a loving mother. She also got on fine with June. She was living with them for a summer holiday.
My opinion is that James Richard had no reason to lie ...
But Jeremy and Sheila both hated their parents ....
If it was not for the money do you think Sheila would have visited the Farm often ?
She would not have done ...
Hating their parents does not make Jeremy or Sheila a killer ....
You can not say Sheila had a wonderful relationship with June - she did not ....
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My opinion is that James Richard had no reason to lie ...
But Jeremy and Sheila both hated their parents ....
If it was not for the money do you think Sheila would have visited the Farm often ?
She would not have done ...
Hating their parents does not make Jeremy or Sheila a killer ....
You can not say Sheila had a wonderful relationship with June - she did not ....
No but hatred is too strong a word. Sheila was exasperated that she couldn't talk to her mother other than on a superficial level, but came to understand her generosity towards the end of her life. After all, that's what her proposed allowance was all about, that they had reached a tacit modus vivendi whereby Sheila would attempt to fall in with some of her mother's wishes, whilst June was trying not to judge too harshly and granted her daughter more financial independence.
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James Richards had no reason to lie either.
Bamber was an adult when he told Richards & MM. Not a sulking 9 year old.
Sheila got on well with Nevill & was a loving mother. She also got on fine with June. She was living with them all for a summer holiday.
He was a teenager - 21 at most - I know 21 year olds that make the average 9 year old seem mature ....
I do not think he was very mature for his age ....
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No but hatred is too strong a word. Sheila was exasperated that she couldn't talk to her mother other than on a superficial level, but came to understand her generosity towards the end of her life. After all, that's what her proposed allowance was all about, that they had reached a tacit modus vivendi whereby Sheila would attempt to fall in with some of her mother's wishes, whilst June was trying not to judge too harshly and granted her daughter more financial independence.
This ties in with Jeremy telling the Police that his relationship with June was rough - but that it also had improved ...
June and Jeremy were making an effort to get on better and from what you say so was Sheila - it seems to fit the pattern ....
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This ties in with Jeremy telling the Police that his relationship with June was rough - but that it also had improved ...
June and Jeremy were making an effort to get on better and from what you say so was Sheila - it seems to fit the pattern ....
It was a façade on Jeremy's part, to lull his parents into a false sense of security so the wills would remain unchanged. Julie, James Richards and Brett Collins knew the score.
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It was a façade on Jeremy's part, to lull his parents into a false sense of security so the wills would remain unchanged. Julie, James Richards and Brett Collins knew the score.
Agreed Steve
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James Richards had no reason to lie either.
Bamber was an adult when he told Richards & MM. Not a sulking 9 year old.
Sheila got on well with Nevill & was a loving mother. She also got on fine with June. She was living with them all for a summer holiday.
She was staying with them for a few days. I don't think that counts as living with them. I daresay that both Jeremy and Sheila had a sort of up and down relationship with their parents - like many people do.
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He was a teenager - 21 at most - I know 21 year olds that make the average 9 year old seem mature ....
I do not think he was very mature for his age ....
Have you got a source for this ?
I doubt the prosecution would call Richards for something Bamber said 4 years earlier.
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He was a teenager - 21 at most - I know 21 year olds that make the average 9 year old seem mature ....
I do not think he was very mature for his age ....
Just checked.
Bamber told James Richards he hated his parents in the summer of 1985.
When Bamber was 24 & just before the massacre.
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Obviously there are at least 6 people who said about Bamber's hatred for his family, how he could kill them or his post massacre involvement -
Julies 34 WS on Bamber's hatred, resentment, plans & confession.
Mary Mugford's WS & court testimony on Bamber's hatred & resentment during the 18 months leading up to the massacre.
James Richards WS & court testimony about how Bamber repeatedly told him he hated his parents just before the massacre.
David Boutflour who said Bamber said 'I could easily kill my parents'.
Charles Marsden who said Bamber spoke about burning down WHF, which matches Julie's WS.
Liz Rimmington who Bamber told 'only I know what really happened that night'.