Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 09:02:PM

Title: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 09:02:PM

Now for something different - an Easter quiz !

Who am i describing ?

1) They effectively lost both their natural parents at a young age.

2) Neville and June Bamber was the closest they had to real parents.

3) Their father was an RAF pilot credited with killing at least 5 enemy.

4) They got sent off to boarding school at a very young age.

5) At that time they only got to stay at White House farm during the boarding school holidays.

6) Sheila was known to be jealous of them when they were growing up.

7) They had plenty of opportunity to commit the murders.

8) They also had plenty of motive - they stood to benefit massively financially from the murders.

9) They owned a .22 rifle and silencer that was normally kept at the farm.

10) They admit using that rifle at the farm not long before the murders.

11) They were known to be an award winning marksman.

12) Their statements and trial transcript show serious discrepancies in their account of events.

Does anyone think they have the answer yet or do you need more clues ?

Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 09:08:PM
Now for something different - an Easter quiz !

Who am i describing ?

1) They effectively lost both their natural parents at a young age.

2) Neville and June Bamber was the closest they had to real parents.

3) Their father was an RAF pilot credited with killing at least 5 enemy.

4) They got sent off to boarding school at a very young age.

5) At that time they only got to stay at White House farm during the boarding school holidays.

6) Sheila was known to be jealous of them when they were growing up.

7) They had plenty of opportunity to commit the murders.

8) They also had plenty of motive - they stood to benefit massively financially from the murders.

9) They owned a .22 rifle and silencer that was normally kept at the farm.

10) They admit using that rifle at the farm not long before the murders.

11) They were known to be an award winning marksman.

12) Their statements and trial transcript show serious discrepancies in their account of events.

Does anyone think they have the answer yet or do you need more clues ?
Anthony and Jackie Pargeter.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 09:17:PM

10 out of 10

In 1991 Jeremy wrote a letter basically accusing Anthony Pargeter of the murders.

Anthony could have

1) committed the murders personally.
2) planted the silencer
3) bribed, threatened or persuaded Julie Mugford to lie to the Police.

He ended up with a substantial part of the inheritance money.

Who can explain to me what it is that rules Anthony out from being a suspect ?

Because at the moment i am not aware of anything that does.

Remember if it was him then he must have forced Neville to phone Jeremy.

If he did this it was to get Jeremy to the farm to kill him too.

His plan A went wrong when Jeremy turned up with the Police ...

Plan B - frame Jeremy with the silencer and Julie and bank the money ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 09:29:PM
10 out of 10

In 1991 Jeremy wrote a letter basically accusing Anthony Pargeter of the murders.

Anthony could have

1) committed the murders personally.
2) planted the silencer
3) bribed, threatened or persuaded Julie Mugford to lie to the Police.

He ended up with a substantial part of the inheritance money.

Who can explain to me what it is that rules Anthony out from being a suspect ?

Because at the moment i am not aware of anything that does.

Remember if it was him then he must have forced Neville to phone Jeremy.

If he did this it was to get Jeremy to the farm to kill him too.

His plan A went wrong when Jeremy turned up with the Police ...

Plan B - frame Jeremy with the silencer and Julie and bank the money ...
Because Nevill said it was his daughter who had gone berserk with a gun, not Jackie or Anthony. Therefore Jeremy's version is a tissue of lies from start to finish.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Caroline on April 17, 2017, 09:32:PM
10 out of 10

In 1991 Jeremy wrote a letter basically accusing Anthony Pargeter of the murders.

Anthony could have

1) committed the murders personally.
2) planted the silencer
3) bribed, threatened or persuaded Julie Mugford to lie to the Police.

He ended up with a substantial part of the inheritance money.

Who can explain to me what it is that rules Anthony out from being a suspect ?

Because at the moment i am not aware of anything that does.

Remember if it was him then he must have forced Neville to phone Jeremy.

If he did this it was to get Jeremy to the farm to kill him too.

His plan A went wrong when Jeremy turned up with the Police ...

Plan B - frame Jeremy with the silencer and Julie and bank the money ...

Why would he alert Jeremy? If he was at WHF when Jeremy arrived with the police, how did he get out without being seen and unlocking any doors or windows? It wasn't his house so if there was such a way in or out, he's unlikely to know but then he has to get passed the police. Why wouldn't he have just killed them all when they were all present? Nah - far fetched!
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: lookout on April 17, 2017, 09:32:PM
Whoever it was who murdered the family,it certainly wasn't Jeremy.

Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 09:40:PM
Because Nevill said it was his daughter who had gone berserk with a gun, not Jackie or Anthony. Therefore Jeremy's version is a tissue of lies from start to finish.
It is very possible that Anthony threatened Neville at gun point to make the phone call.

He would have told Neville exactly what to say including the bit about Sheila.

This was a story designed to get Jeremy to the farmhouse alone and quickly.

As soon as Neville had said it Anthony cut off the phone ...

Jeremy reacted in a way that Anthony had not predicted and called the Police.


Why is the above not perfectly possible ?





Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 09:44:PM
It is very possible that Anthony threatened Neville at gun point to make the phone call.

He would have told Neville exactly what to say including the bit about Sheila.

This was a story designed to get Jeremy to the farmhouse alone and quickly.

As soon as Neville had said it Anthony cut off the phone ...

Jeremy reacted in a way that Anthony had not predicted and called the Police.


Why is the above not perfectly possible ?
Because Nevill would have rushed Anthony the same way he tried to with Jeremy.

It says Jackie may have passed away. That's very sad.  http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/jackie-pargeter
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: lookout on April 17, 2017, 09:47:PM
It's not impossible at all when you consider that prints of an " unknown male " had been traced on the rifle which obviously weren't Jeremy's or they'd have said.
 
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 09:54:PM
Why would he alert Jeremy? If he was at WHF when Jeremy arrived with the police, how did he get out without being seen and unlocking any doors or windows? It wasn't his house so if there was such a way in or out, he's unlikely to know but then he has to get passed the police. Why wouldn't he have just killed them all when they were all present? Nah - far fetched!

He alerted Jeremy to get him to the farm - he needed to kill him too - or no money for Anthony ...

Anthony knew where the spare key was kept and knew the farm as well as Jeremy did - Anthony grew up there ...

Anthony would have been as capable of entering and leaving the property as Jeremy was.

He might have been seen 3 times :

1) movement in the window
2) gun in the window (WPC Jeaves statement)
3) hunched up man seen leaving area by Police - Police statement at press conference ...

And he had no opportunity to kill them why they were all present - in the daytime there was too many other people potentially visiting or working at the farm - it had to be night time and it had to be that weekend while Sheila was visiting - it was his only opportunity ...

Why exactly is it far fetched ?

Just because you have a pre conceived notion of Anthony or have never considered this possibility before does not make it far fetched ...

Anthony losing his parents at an early age might have given him serious mental problems.

He liked shooting animals.

He maybe resented the adopted Jeremy and Sheila inheriting what he felt was his rightful inheritance ...

He ended up with a substatial part of the money ...

Why is it far fetched ?

On what logical basis ?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Jane on April 17, 2017, 09:59:PM
If Nevill sustained those facial injuries in the bedroom he'd have been incapable of making a phone call.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 10:02:PM
He wouldn't have had to shoot Sheila twice either.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:02:PM
It is very possible that Anthony threatened Neville at gun point to make the phone call.

He would have told Neville exactly what to say including the bit about Sheila.

This was a story designed to get Jeremy to the farmhouse alone and quickly.

As soon as Neville had said it Anthony cut off the phone ...

Jeremy reacted in a way that Anthony had not predicted and called the Police.
 

There's some food for thought.....

Why is the above not perfectly possible ?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:04:PM
Because Nevill would have rushed Anthony the same way he tried to with Jeremy.

It says Jackie may have passed away. That's very sad.  http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/jackie-pargeter

Think this scenario through :

Anthony arranged to meet Neville at the farm late at night ...

Neville let him in to talk ...

Anthony points the rifle at Neville during an argument and demands Neville gets Jeremy there now ...

Neville does not imagine that Anthony will shoot - he thinks it will be resolved through talking ...

At gun point Neville phones Jeremy and says about Sheila as Anthony instructs him too ...

Anthony ends the call by unplugging the phone ...

Neville still thinks the situation can be resolved by talking ....

Before Neville realises how serious it is Anthony shoots him ....

Neville had a struggle with someone ...

Why is it not perfectly possible that that was Anthony ?

Jeremy had no physical signs of having struggled with anyone ...

Why is it far fetched that Anthony did it ?

Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Jane on April 17, 2017, 10:08:PM
Think this scenario through :

Anthony arranged to meet Neville at the farm late at night ...

Neville let him in to talk ...

Anthony points the rifle at Neville during an argument and demands Neville gets Jeremy there now ...

Neville does not imagine that Anthony will shoot - he thinks it will be resolved through talking ...

At gun point Neville phones Jeremy and says about Sheila as Anthony instructs him too ...

Anthony ends the call by unplugging the phone ...

Neville still thinks the situation can be resolved by talking ....

Before Neville realises how serious it is Anthony shoots him ....

Neville had a struggle with someone ...

Why is it not perfectly possible that that was Anthony ?

Jeremy had no physical signs of having struggled with anyone ...

Why is it far fetched that Anthony did it ?

No one FOUND any marks on Jeremy because no one was looking for marks on Jeremy. Why is it so important to you that it was Anthony did it?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:09:PM
It's not impossible at all when you consider that prints of an " unknown male " had been traced on the rifle which obviously weren't Jeremy's or they'd have said.
 

Anthony told Police he has picked up the murder weapon when he visited the farm a few days before ...

This was almost the first thing he told Police ...

Was he pre explaining why his fingerprints might be found on the murder weapon ?

Removing fingerprints from metal is harder than you might think - even with 1985 forensics ...

Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:10:PM
Think this scenario through :

Anthony arranged to meet Neville at the farm late at night ...

Neville let him in to talk ...

Anthony points the rifle at Neville during an argument and demands Neville gets Jeremy there now ...

Neville does not imagine that Anthony will shoot - he thinks it will be resolved through talking ...

At gun point Neville phones Jeremy and says about Sheila as Anthony instructs him too ...

Anthony ends the call by unplugging the phone ...

Neville still thinks the situation can be resolved by talking ....

Before Neville realises how serious it is Anthony shoots him ....

Neville had a struggle with someone ...

Why is it not perfectly possible that that was Anthony ?

Jeremy had no physical signs of having struggled with anyone ...

Why is it far fetched that Anthony did it ?

Can you point me in the right direction to find out more about ap please
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:10:PM
He wouldn't have had to shoot Sheila twice either.

Why not ?

According to his witness statements he was an award winning marksman and in his opinion Jeremy was a great shot too ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:12:PM



????
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 10:13:PM
Can you point me in the right direction to find out more about ap please
http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:16:PM

????


Sorry it's put my reply in the quote,
I said food for thought...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:16:PM
No one FOUND any marks on Jeremy because no one was looking for marks on Jeremy. Why is it so important to you that it was Anthony did it?

It is not important to me that Anthony did it ...

I am Sherlock ...

I am trying to rule everybody out ...

At the moment i am having very serious difficulty indeed in ruling Anthony out ....

 ....  " How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth ?  ...."

Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:17:PM
http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/

Thanks Steve, hubbys going to be super annoyed now as I have to look this up lol.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 10:19:PM
It is not important to me that Anthony did it ...

I am Sherlock ...

I am trying to rule everybody out ...

At the moment i am having very serious difficulty indeed in ruling Anthony out ....

 ....  " How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth ?  ...."
Oh and here's me all this time assuming he was at home with Regine in Bourne End..
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 10:20:PM
Thanks Steve, hubbys going to be super annoyed now as I have to look this up lol.
You're welcome Lucy. You may as well hear it from the horse's mouth..
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:21:PM
You're welcome Lucy. You may as well hear it from the horse's mouth..
What's your view Steve?.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 10:22:PM
What's your view Steve?.
I don't see how he could have got there unnoticed.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:22:PM
If Nevill sustained those facial injuries in the bedroom he'd have been incapable of making a phone call.


If the theory is correct then i think Neville must have been unharmed when he made the call ...

It is possible he was marched at gunpoint back upstairs to his bedroom after the call ...

He may have first been shot in the bedroom

He may have escaped down the stairs ...

He may have been trying to get to one of his own guns from downstairs  ...

The shooter may have caught up with him in the kitchen and finished him off ...

Why is this not possible or far fetched ?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Jane on April 17, 2017, 10:23:PM


 ........................................  " How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth ?  ...."


Hmm. That's how they concluded Sheila didn't do it.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:24:PM
I don't see how he could have got there unnoticed.
How could Jeremy then?.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 10:25:PM

If the theory is correct then i think Neville must have been unharmed when he made the call ...

It is possible he was marched at gunpoint back upstairs to his bedroom after the call ...

He may have first been shot in the bedroom

He may have escaped down the stairs ...

He may have been trying to get to one of his own guns from downstairs  ...

The shooter may have caught up with him in the kitchen and finished him off ...

Why is this not possible or far fetched ?

"Jeremy come quickly lad..your cousin Jackie has gone berserk with the gun.."
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:25:PM
I don't see how he could have got there unnoticed.

noticed by who ?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:25:PM

If the theory is correct then i think Neville must have been unharmed when he made the call ...

It is possible he was marched at gunpoint back upstairs to his bedroom after the call ...

He may have first been shot in the bedroom

He may have escaped down the stairs ...

He may have been trying to get to one of his own guns from downstairs  ...

The shooter may have caught up with him in the kitchen and finished him off ...

Why is this not possible or far fetched ?

 Silencer same make and model to, how do they know it wasn't ap silencer used and not Nevilles?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Jane on April 17, 2017, 10:26:PM
How could Jeremy then?.

Jeremy had ways of getting in other than through the door.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:28:PM
Jeremy had ways of getting in other than through the door.
So it ap spent so much time there, why could he not know to?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 10:28:PM
noticed by who ?
Without being seen. I'm assuming he drove from Bourne End to Tolleshunt D'Arcy and left his car somewhere. Wouldn't his family have asked where he'd been during those hours?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:29:PM
Oh and here's me all this time assuming he was at home with Regine in Bourne End..

Why do you assume this ?


Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Roch on April 17, 2017, 10:31:PM
I like Sherlock's posts. 

But there was physical evidence that indicated Sheila Caffell was the killer.  It was probably shouted by Taff in fustration at Ann, Anthony and Peter or whichever three relatives are referred to in her COLP statement (I think it's Aug 91).  It's probably the reason why the original Coroner's inquest report and Jim Keneally's report are not available. 

The evidence was recorded.

The relatives can go on telly and parrot the case under Ainsley.  But they cant parrot the case under DCI Jones.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:32:PM
Can you point me in the right direction to find out more about ap please

I can supply sources for anything i have stated - please feel free to ask ...

I am going to start a separate thread soon on Anthony with the sole purpose of all of us sharing as much information about him as we can ....
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:33:PM
Why do you assume this ?
Ae and rb removed Anthony's .22 from the house which was found in the downstairs toilet,
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:34:PM
I can supply sources for anything i have stated - please feel free to ask ...

I am going to start a separate thread soon on Anthony with the sole purpose of all of us sharing as much information about him as we can ....
Had a quick read of a search on the forum. Interesting,, will keep reading if you find anything can you send me links please Sherlock.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:38:PM

Hmm. That's how they concluded Sheila didn't do it.

I think the trial Judge was very clever indeed ...

He made one big mistake ...

He did not consider Neville being forced to make that call by a third party ...

Therefore he wrongly told the Jury that because of that call it must have been Jeremy or Sheila ...

He was not considering all the possibilities ...

Therefore he did not allow the Jury to consider all the possibilities ...

Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:43:PM
"Jeremy come quickly lad..your cousin Jackie has gone berserk with the gun.."

"Jeremy come quickly lad..your cousin Jackie has gone berserk with the gun.."

Why did you say Jackie ?

He would have said Sheila ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:44:PM
Silencer same make and model to, how do they know it wasn't ap silencer used and not Nevilles?

Exactly ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 10:47:PM
Exactly ...
And weapon not siezed for years? Why? His statements about the whereabouts of his gun are extremely conflicting,
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:50:PM
Without being seen. I'm assuming he drove from Bourne End to Tolleshunt D'Arcy and left his car somewhere. Wouldn't his family have asked where he'd been during those hours?

If it wasnt Sheila then someone got in without being noticed ...

Why couldn't that someone be Anthony ?

By his family i assume you mean Regine ?

We know nothing about his relationship with Regine.

The fact he lived with her does not rule him out as a suspect at all ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 10:50:PM
Why did you say Jackie ?

He would have said Sheila ...
How can you be held to ransom (so to speak) under threat of a gun whose bullets will not kill with one shot? Aren't you more likely to try to wrest control of that weapon from the person wielding it, which is exactly what did happen..
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 10:53:PM
I like Sherlock's posts. 

But there was physical evidence that indicated Sheila Caffell was the killer.  It was probably shouted by Taff in fustration at Ann, Anthony and Peter or whichever three relatives are referred to in her COLP statement (I think it's Aug 91).  It's probably the reason why the original Coroner's inquest report and Jim Keneally's report are not available. 

The evidence was recorded.

The relatives can go on telly and parrot the case under Ainsley.  But they cant parrot the case under DCI Jones.

If it was not Sheila the someone wanted to make it to look like her ...

This could explain the physical evidence that it was her ...

With respect nothing in your post rules Anthony out as a suspect in my opinion
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 11:00:PM
How can you be held to ransom (so to speak) under threat of a gun whose bullets will not kill with one shot? Aren't you more likely to try to wrest control of that weapon from the person wielding it, which is exactly what did happen..

Neville might have thought that this was going to be resolved through talking ...

He might have been desperate to resolve any issues they had through talking ...

Maybe he was sure he could calm Anthony down given a bit of time ...

Being shot with a .22 is a fair threat to someone ...

Maybe he did not try to get physical with his nephew until after he had been shot at least once ...

Although wary he may not have believed Anthony would actually shoot him until he actually did ...

Maybe he played along making the call to calm Anthony down and play for time ...

As well as because he was a little wary of the .22 rifle especially with his family in the house ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 11:01:PM
Neville might have thought that this was going to be resolved through talking ...

He might have been desperate to resolve any issues they had through talking ...

Maybe he was sure he could calm Anthony down given a bit of time ...

Being shot with a .22 is a fair threat to someone ...

Maybe he did not try to get physical with his nephew until after he had been shot at least once ...



If ap had handled the weapon why were his prints not on it?
Although wary he may not have believed Anthony would actually shoot him until he actually did ...

Maybe he played along making the call to calmm Anthonh down and play for time ...

As well as because he was a little wary of the .22 rifle especially with his family in the house ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 11:02:PM
Ae and rb removed Anthony's .22 from the house which was found in the downstairs toilet,

What makes you think that ?

There may be some confusion with a separate air rifle that he also owned ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 11:03:PM
Had a quick read of a search on the forum. Interesting,, will keep reading if you find anything can you send me links please Sherlock.

Separate Anthony thread coming soon  :)
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Steve_uk on April 17, 2017, 11:03:PM
Neville might have thought that this was going to be resolved through talking ...

He might have been desperate to resolve any issues they had through talking ...

Maybe he was sure he could calm Anthony down given a bit of time ...

Being shot with a .22 is a fair threat to someone ...

Maybe he did not try to get physical with his nephew until after he had been shot at least once ...

Although wary he may not have believed Anthony would actually shoot him until he actually did ...

Maybe he played along making the call to calmm Anthonh down and play for time ...

As well as because he was a little wary of the .22 rifle especially with his family in the house ...
The problem with this plan is if Anthony doesn't manage to lure Jeremy to his death he cops the lot and Anthony gets nothing.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 11:06:PM
What makes you think that ?

There may be some confusion with a separate air rifle that he also owned ...
It's in one of their statements apparently
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 11:12:PM
And weapon not siezed for years? Why? His statements about the whereabouts of his gun are extremely conflicting,

He lied in his statements about his rifle - why ?

Anthony and Jeremy's accounts about the silencer being on the rifle before the murders appear to contradict one another ...

Anthony said in his statement that the silencer was on the rifle a week before and would not have been removed by Neville or Jeremy ...

Jeremy said in his statement that the silencer was definitely not on the rifle on the evening before the murders  ...

It appears that either Anthony or Jeremy were most likely lying about this point ...

I wonder which one of them was lying and why did they lie ?

My mind is still very open about this question ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 11:15:PM


?  :)
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 11:18:PM
Here is something about it
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 17, 2017, 11:19:PM
?  :)
Sorry I was trying to attach An image, now done it twice!!!
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 11:35:PM
The problem with this plan is if Anthony doesn't manage to lure Jeremy to his death he cops the lot and Anthony gets nothing.

The strength of a discussion forum (and indeed a Jury) is the combined knowledge and experience of it's members ....

I can contribute an in depth knowledge of the mind set of middle class people from Essex in 1985 ...

Based on my knowledge i would have assumed that after receiving the phone call that Jeremy would have turned up at the farm house alone ...

It was apparently only his sister having a bit of a turn and Jeremy was needed at the farm to help his father calm her down ...

You have to understand that the Bambers DEFINITELY would have gone to great lengths not to involve the authorities in this type of incidence and would have wanted to resolve it themselves ...

Sheila had never been violent before so why should this incident be a problem ?

It was a very good bet that he would respond to the call and do so on his own without phoning the Police ...

If Neville had wanted the Police there then he would have called them himself - right ?

So what went wrong ?

I believe something in the tone of Nevilles voice spooked Jeremy ...

That is why he called the Police ...

And that is why Anthony had to put plan B into practice ...

He probably had not even considered a plan B until plan A had gone wrong ...






Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 17, 2017, 11:50:PM
Here is something about it

The statement you provided relates to 2 shotguns being returned to Jeremy ...

These shotguns are not the .22 rifle that was used in the murders ...

.22 rifles are very different to shotguns ...

Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Caroline on April 17, 2017, 11:54:PM
He alerted Jeremy to get him to the farm - he needed to kill him too - or no money for Anthony ...

Anthony knew where the spare key was kept and knew the farm as well as Jeremy did - Anthony grew up there ...

Anthony would have been as capable of entering and leaving the property as Jeremy was.

He might have been seen 3 times :

1) movement in the window
2) gun in the window (WPC Jeaves statement)
3) hunched up man seen leaving area by Police - Police statement at press conference ...

And he had no opportunity to kill them why they were all present - in the daytime there was too many other people potentially visiting or working at the farm - it had to be night time and it had to be that weekend while Sheila was visiting - it was his only opportunity ...

Why exactly is it far fetched ?

Just because you have a pre conceived notion of Anthony or have never considered this possibility before does not make it far fetched ...

Anthony losing his parents at an early age might have given him serious mental problems.

He liked shooting animals.

He maybe resented the adopted Jeremy and Sheila inheriting what he felt was his rightful inheritance ...

He ended up with a substatial part of the money ...

Why is it far fetched ?

On what logical basis ?

Please post an official reference to a hunched man leaving the farm. I'm sick of people posting this - are we to believe that in a seige situation, the cops just let someone walk away? Please!
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: guest2181 on April 18, 2017, 12:01:AM
The strength of a discussion forum (and indeed a Jury) is the combined knowledge and experience of it's members ....

I can contribute an in depth knowledge of the mind set of middle class people from Essex in 1985 ...

Based on my knowledge i would have assumed that after receiving the phone call that Jeremy would have turned up at the farm house alone ...

It was apparently only his sister having a bit of a turn and Jeremy was needed at the farm to help his father calm her down ...

You have to understand that the Bambers DEFINITELY would have gone to great lengths not to involve the authorities in this type of incidence and would have wanted to resolve it themselves ...

Sheila had never been violent before so why should this incident be a problem ?

It was a very good bet that he would respond to the call and do so on his own without phoning the Police ...

If Neville had wanted the Police there then he would have called them himself - right ?

So what went wrong ?

I believe something in the tone of Nevilles voice spooked Jeremy ...

That is why he called the Police ...

And that is why Anthony had to put plan B into practice ...

He probably had not even considered a plan B until plan A had gone wrong ...

How could AP be certain that he could set the scene to make it look like Sheila was responsible? In your scenario it's already planned by getting Nevill to tell Jeremy.

What were the other occupants of the house doing? Surely the children would have woken?  :-\
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 18, 2017, 12:26:AM
Please post an official reference to a hunched man leaving the farm. I'm sick of people posting this - are we to believe that in a seige situation, the cops just let someone walk away? Please!

A press conference was given by Essex Police in september 1985.
All the major press were there.
The Police asked for information about the hunched up man that they saw leaving  the area.
I will post a link soon ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 18, 2017, 12:32:AM
How could AP be certain that he could set the scene to make it look like Sheila was responsible? In your scenario it's already planned by getting Nevill to tell Jeremy.

What were the other occupants of the house doing? Surely the children would have woken?  :-\

If Sheila did not do it then someone made it look like her - why not Anthony ?
The phone call would have set the scene - the gun on Sheilas chest would have confirmed it ...

I assume the other occupants of the house would have been asleep ...
If the shooting started in the bedroom then that accounts for June ..
Maybe Sheila woke up maybe not ...
It seems clear that whoever did the shooting that the noise did not in fact wake the 2 children up ..
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: guest2181 on April 18, 2017, 12:50:AM
If Sheila did not do it then someone made it look like her - why not Anthony ?
The phone call would have set the scene - the gun on Sheilas chest would have confirmed it ...

I assume the other occupants of the house would have been asleep ...
If the shooting started in the bedroom then that accounts for June ..
Maybe Sheila woke up maybe not ...
It seems clear that whoever did the shooting that the noise did not in fact wake the 2 children up ..

That doesn't make sense. How could AP have known that he could frame Sheila when he's getting Nevill to call JB. How did he know that Sheila wouldn't put up a fight? It is not just about a rifle on her chest.

For the twins to still be asleep, then they are likely to have been the first victims, which doesn't fit your scenario.

I understand your point about not limiting the potential culprits to Sheila or JB, which ultimately meant that the prosecution only needed to show that Sheila wasn't responsible in order to prove that JB therefore must have been. It's been discussed many times in the past.

For me, your AP scenario is far fetched and doesn't have any supporting evidence.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Adam on April 18, 2017, 02:03:AM
AP killing everyone, then staging the frame Sheila. Joker.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Caroline on April 18, 2017, 02:37:AM
A press conference was given by Essex Police in september 1985.
All the major press were there.
The Police asked for information about the hunched up man that they saw leaving  the area.
I will post a link soon ...

Post proof. How's Sweeny doing?  ::)
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: lookout on April 18, 2017, 10:27:AM
I found it odd that AP had appeared at WHF out of the blue. I don't know when his last visit was prior to the weekend before the tragedy,but he seemed to have timed it well being the weekend before Sheila and the twins were there.
I'm not saying he shouldn't have visited,as after all, June and Neville were like his adoptive parents too.Maybe some animosity/jealousy there too when Jeremy and Sheila were adopted,there was bound to have been and children don't forget.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Caroline on April 18, 2017, 11:12:AM
Didn't he successfully sue The Sport newspaper for these very same allegations?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 18, 2017, 12:00:PM
Didn't he successfully sue The Sport newspaper for these very same allegations?

Yes he did.
He received £40,000 damages and £60,000 legal costs.
In 1991 £40,000 could have bought you a house in many parts of the UK.

What the Sport alleged was that his gun was at the property on the night of the murders and that it might have actually been used in the murders.

The matter was not tested in Court - the Sport took the commercial decision not to contest it.
The choice they faced was to pay the £100,000 to end the matter or pay £500,000 in costs to contest it.
If they won Anthony would not have had the £500,000 to pay them.

They obviously believed what they printed - they had informed the public of this real possibility - but they decided not to waste £500,000 with the lawyers.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 18, 2017, 12:10:PM
I found it odd that AP had appeared at WHF out of the blue. I don't know when his last visit was prior to the weekend before the tragedy,but he seemed to have timed it well being the weekend before Sheila and the twins were there.
I'm not saying he shouldn't have visited,as after all, June and Neville were like his adoptive parents too.Maybe some animosity/jealousy there too when Jeremy and Sheila were adopted,there was bound to have been and children don't forget.

According to his statement the first thing he did when he arrived at the farm was to enquire where his gun was and to go straight to it and set the sights to be accurate - as well as have a good look at the Bambers new rifle ...

He was obviously very keen on guns ...

Strange he didn't want to see and say hello to Neville, Jeremy, Sheila or the twins before sorting the two guns out ...

Sort of shows his priorities and what was foremost in his mind in my opinion ...

It seems fair to assume his main motive for his visit was possibly related to the gun/s ...

Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Caroline on April 18, 2017, 12:23:PM
According to his statement the first thing he did when he arrived at the farm was to enquire where his gun was and to go straight to it and set the sights to be accurate - as well as have a good look at the Bambers new rifle ...

He was obviously very keen on guns ...

Strange he didn't want to see and say hello to Neville, Jeremy, Sheila or the twins before sorting the two guns out ...

Sort of shows his priorities and what was foremost in his mind in my opinion ...

It seems fair to assume his main motive for his visit was possibly related to the gun/s ...

Sheila and the twins were not at the farm when AP was there and Nevill and Jeremy weren't around. Don't twist things to suit - also, where is the evidence of the hunched man?

 
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: sherlock on April 18, 2017, 12:36:PM
Sheila and the twins were not at the farm when AP was there and Nevill and Jeremy weren't around. Don't twist things to suit - also, where is the evidence of the hunched man?

God points Caroline - you are right ...

But the first thing on Anthony's mind was still to go to his gun and fix the sights and have a good look at the Bamber's new gun - agreed ?

I will soon be posting further relating to the hunched man - before i do i am gathering enough evidence to show you that should settle the point once and for all ...

If i show you i am right about the hunched man will it make you curious ?

Added to the possible sighting of a gun in one window (by a WPC firearms instructor) and possible movement in another it would sort of raise a question mark wouldn't you say ?

Anyway i am gathering the evidence on this point now ...
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: lookout on April 18, 2017, 12:41:PM
According to his statement the first thing he did when he arrived at the farm was to enquire where his gun was and to go straight to it and set the sights to be accurate - as well as have a good look at the Bambers new rifle ...

He was obviously very keen on guns ...

Strange he didn't want to see and say hello to Neville, Jeremy, Sheila or the twins before sorting the two guns out ...

Sort of shows his priorities and what was foremost in his mind in my opinion ...

It seems fair to assume his main motive for his visit was possibly related to the gun/s ...





AP's rifle,etc was licensed at WHF,hence it had been kept there,but didn't he come unstuck when he'd denied his rifle being there, that he hadn't wanted it be known that it was at his own home address,so where did he think it would have been ? If he'd taken it home he'd have been in hot water with the law as the rule was that it stayed at the address it was licensed at,namely WHF.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Caroline on April 18, 2017, 01:24:PM
God points Caroline - you are right ...

But the first thing on Anthony's mind was still to go to his gun and fix the sights and have a good look at the Bamber's new gun - agreed ?

I will soon be posting further relating to the hunched man - before i do i am gathering enough evidence to show you that should settle the point once and for all ...

If i show you i am right about the hunched man will it make you curious ?

Added to the possible sighting of a gun in one window (by a WPC firearms instructor) and possible movement in another it would sort of raise a question mark wouldn't you say ?

Anyway i am gathering the evidence on this point now ...

You don't need to write a prologue - just post some 'official' evidence that there was a hunched man seen leaving WHF on the night of the murders. Then we can all either accept there was one or kick it to the curb.

I don't see anything remotely suspicious in AP going to look for his rifle.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: lookout on April 18, 2017, 01:32:PM
I found it suspicious when AP " didn't know whether his rifle was at his home address or WHF ". Did he ever actually state to EP that the rifle had been at his home address ? Because what he said that he allegedly took home was the bolt and not the rifle.

Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Lucy522 on April 18, 2017, 01:42:PM
I found it suspicious when AP " didn't know whether his rifle was at his home address or WHF ". Did he ever actually state to EP that the rifle had been at his home address ? Because what he said that he allegedly took home was the bolt and not the rifle.

Well he didn't know, first it was at home then it was at the farm  :o :o
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Roch on April 18, 2017, 01:54:PM

https://jeremybamber.org/anthony-pargeter/
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: lookout on April 18, 2017, 03:27:PM
Yes,clearly some jiggery-pokery there alright.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: buddy on April 18, 2017, 03:37:PM
Yes,clearly some jiggery-pokery there alright.
Yes clearly their was, however I do not go along with the theory that AP had anything to do with the murders. IMO the AP rifle was at the house on that night, and was removed by the family.
AP used different ammo than was used at the farm [hollow point]. It has always seemed strange to me that not all bullets were fragmented when hollow point is designed to fragment suggesting that different ammo was used during the murders.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: lookout on April 18, 2017, 03:46:PM
Yes clearly their was, however I do not go along with the theory that AP had anything to do with the murders. IMO the AP rifle was at the house on that night, and was removed by the family.
AP used different ammo than was used at the farm [hollow point]. It has always seemed strange to me that not all bullets were fragmented when hollow point is designed to fragment suggesting that different ammo was used during the murders.





Mike has always reckoned that different bullets were used. No prints taken of either them nor the cases or any of those which were scattered on the worktop.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: buddy on April 18, 2017, 03:52:PM




Mike has always reckoned that different bullets were used. No prints taken of either them nor the cases or any of those which were scattered on the worktop.
Yes I posted that in about 2011. It must be remembered that the neck shot to Sheila was fragmented.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Roch on April 18, 2017, 04:29:PM
'Bambergate' claimed that the pathologist was told to expect different types of ammunition in the victims.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: buddy on April 18, 2017, 04:33:PM
'Bambergate' claimed that the pathologist was told to expect different types of ammunition in the victims.
Yes, and the jury were never told. At least two were not convinced.
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: lookout on April 18, 2017, 04:48:PM
Yes I posted that in about 2011. It must be remembered that the neck shot to Sheila was fragmented.





I had always assumed that the fragmented bullet had been due to it having hit the jaw-bone ?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Adam on April 18, 2017, 05:33:PM




Mike has always reckoned that different bullets were used. No prints taken of either them nor the cases or any of those which were scattered on the worktop.

https://youtu.be/mmCART1vcCo

Do you agree with Mike that the police shot Sheila ?
Title: Re: Easter Quiz time - who am i describing ?
Post by: Adam on April 18, 2017, 05:37:PM
'Bambergate' claimed that the pathologist was told to expect different types of ammunition in the victims.

'Bambergate claimed'.

It must be correct then.