Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on March 29, 2017, 06:19:PM
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https://youtu.be/xG1TPk6cvPc
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it effects different people in different ways that account may not be atypical.
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it effects different people in different ways that account may not be a typical.
Sheila was certainly able to walk through doors and not stand on her toes. She could even breach, chamber and load a rifle. Twice. Oh and beat up Nevill.
Funny that Sheila's friend said Sheila was not able to get up from sofa's without help. Just before the massacre.
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https://youtu.be/8dddt5CCgaA
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Sheila certainly wasn't 'totally zonked' & unable to read.
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you cant duduce that from 2 apersonal accounts.
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you cant duduce that from 2 apersonal accounts.
How many do you want, 50 ?
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https://youtu.be/2HzNJPxMDs8
Here is a commercial for it. It makes you dizzy amd drowsy.
It also causes insomnina, 'repetitive involuntary muscle movement', neck spsams and difficulty breathing. It also makes you disorganised.
This is being mild as it's a commercial for it.
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How many do you want, 50 ?
Adam it is not necessary for you to be sarcastic.
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it effects different people in different ways that account may not be atypical.
Nugnug I would agree with you a drug does affect people in different ways I have no knowledge of Haloperidol and how it work my comments are based on drugs in general.
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https://youtu.be/ve1N3xOlc-g
Increases the symptons of Parkinsons disease. Central nervous system depression. Drooling, tremour and gait problems. Spasms of tongue, face, neck & back. Complusive restless movement. Drowsiness ( already mentioned).
Tardrive dyskensia is also mentioned. Which Steve has previously mentioned.
Involutary movement is another one. However all the massacre movements seemed carefully planned.
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Nugnug I would agree with you a drug does affect people in different ways I have no knowledge of Haloperidol and how it work my comments are based on drugs in general.
All the videos are saying the same thing. It would have been inpossible for Sheila to fill up a water pistol for her sons, let alone carry out a very impressive massacre and win a fight with Nevill.
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This negates Sheila as the possible killer.
However it also highlights how easy it would be for Bamber to get Sheila into his chosen position.
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How many do you want, 50 ?
well that would be a good start but it still wouldent be proof.
id wager its perscrbed to more than 50 people
but at the same 50 accounts are better than 3.
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well that would be a good start but it still wouldent be proof.
id wager its perscrbed to more than 50 people
but at the same 50 accounts are better than 3.
;D
You've got 4 independent videos. I could get more but don't need to.
Unless you can get counter videos, you have to accept Sheila couldn't have taken the lid of a yogurt pot, let alone carried out the massacre.
And she was also easy prey for Bamber as she was so 'zonked out'.
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;D
You've got 4 independent videos. I could get more but don't need to.
Unless you can get counter videos, you have to accept Sheila couldn't have taken the lid of a yogurt pot, let alone carried out the massacre.
And she was also easy prey for Bamber as she was so 'zonked out'.
i dont give a xxxx how many you can get it still proves nothing.
there well allways be people who are the exeption to the rule.
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i dont give a xxxx how many you can get it still proves nothing.
there well allways be people who are the exeption to the rule.
;D
That must be it. Sheila was from another planet and didn't suffer from the multiple and major side effects of Halperidol that everyone else suffers from.
If she's not from another planet, have you got a source that people are the 'exception to the rule'. Basically beating science & Haloperidol ?
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The video in reply 10 has a comments section underneath from someone who has taken it -
Inability to move the eyes.
Loss of balance control.
Shuffling walk.
Stiffness of arms and legs.
Trembling and shaking of fingers and hands.
Lightheadedness or fainting.
Uncontrolled movements of arms and legs.
Tiredness & weakness.
Muscle spasms of neck and back.
Oh dear.
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All the videos are saying the same thing. It would have been inpossible for Sheila to fill up a water pistol for her sons, let alone carry out a very impressive massacre and win a fight with Nevill.
It is true Haldol can cause awful side effects as shown in videos but not everyone suffers from all or any of these side effects.
Sheila may have suffered from some physical side effects particularly when she was on a really high dose but I would question that she was very impaired by such side effects and wasn't taking any drugs to counteract such side effects at the time of her death. I am sure Sheila would have taken such drugs if they were necessary.
She seems to have managed to live a relatively physically normal life. None of her friends who have commented or given statements mentioned her suffering from such symptoms which is significant imo.
Any comments have tended to be about her emotional and mental health difficulties.
We hear much about her manicured nails, make up she wore and smoking roll ups all of which require steady hands.
I don't believe Sheila murdered her family however I don't think there's any proof that Sheila was physically incapacitated by Haldol.
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All the videos are saying the same thing. It would have been inpossible for Sheila to fill up a water pistol for her sons, let alone carry out a very impressive massacre and win a fight with Nevill.
Adam I don't recall saying anything about Sheila loading water pistols or carrying out a very impressive massacre, Read my reply to Nugnug again please.
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Well I've come up with 30 side effects without trying. So there will be more.
Sheila only needed to be suffering from a few of them to make normal functioning impossible. So an intricate massacre by her did not take place.
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https://youtu.be/ve1N3xOlc-g
Increases the symptons of Parkinsons disease. Central nervous system depression. Drooling, tremour and gait problems. Spasms of tongue, face, neck & back. Complusive restless movement. Drowsiness ( already mentioned).
Tardrive dyskensia is also mentioned. Which Steve has previously mentioned.
Involutary movement is another one. However all the massacre movements seemed carefully planned.
Yes it was Colin's opinion-the person who knew her best. It explains why she offered no resistance when led to her death.
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Yes it was Colin's opinion-the person who knew her best. It explains why she offered no resistance when led to her death.
I've never seen a problem with Bamber getting Sheila into a suitable position. He had lots of options.
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It is true Haldol can cause awful side effects as shown in videos but not everyone suffers from all or any of these side effects.
Sheila may have suffered from some physical side effects particularly when she was on a really high dose but I would question that she was very impaired by such side effects and wasn't taking any drugs to counteract such side effects at the time of her death. I am sure Sheila would have taken such drugs if they were necessary.
She seems to have managed to live a relatively physically normal life. None of her friends who have commented or given statements mentioned her suffering from such symptoms which is significant imo.
Any comments have tended to be about her emotional and mental health difficulties.
We hear much about her manicured nails, make up she wore and smoking roll ups all of which require steady hands.
I don't believe Sheila murdered her family however I don't think there's any proof that Sheila was physically incapacitated by Haldol.
I totally agree with you Maggie. ;D
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It is true Haldol can cause awful side effects as shown in videos but not everyone suffers from all or any of these side effects.
Sheila may have suffered from some physical side effects particularly when she was on a really high dose but I would question that she was very impaired by such side effects and wasn't taking any drugs to counteract such side effects at the time of her death. I am sure Sheila would have taken such drugs if they were necessary.
She seems to have managed to live a relatively physically normal life. None of her friends who have commented or given statements mentioned her suffering from such symptoms which is significant imo.
Any comments have tended to be about her emotional and mental health difficulties.
We hear much about her manicured nails, make up she wore and smoking roll ups all of which require steady hands.
I don't believe Sheila murdered her family however I don't think there's any proof that Sheila was physically incapacitated by Haldol.
there is one particular side that adam mentioned though its been mentioned many times before.
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It was a revealing day yesterday.
A long term supporter agreed that it was Sheila's blood in the silencer & the relatives/Stan Jones did not fabricate it.
Apparently the accepted evidence is wrong. Sheila's blood deep inside the silencer baffles was not from rifle contact shot back splatter. But Sheila put the silencer on half way through the massacre & blood from her hands dripped into it.
Now this thread has a double whammy. Showing it was impossible for Sheila to have been able to even attempt the massacre. While easy for Bamber to move her a few feet.
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Yes it was Colin's opinion-the person who knew her best. It explains why she offered no resistance when led to her death.
If Colin's opinion is that Sheila was meekly led to her death, then he is very much mistaken.
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Yes it was Colin's opinion-the person who knew her best. It explains why she offered no resistance when led to her death.
It has to beg the question as to why a divorce came so quickly after the twins births ? So yes,Colin DID know Sheila but obviously hadn't liked what he saw in her--------anger ! You can more or less pick this up in his book when he continuously talks about how June was, in " excusing " Sheila's behaviour but instead blaming her mother. If you read between the lines that I tend to do,you'll see what I mean. Both women were facsimiles of each other.
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Proper use of Haldol would/should have restored Sheila's mindset to " normal " in her way of thinking, as well as decreasing her agitation,aggression and anxiety and she'd have functioned as normal.
It would/should have alleviated hallucinations and delusions. So what happened during her therapy that the drug wasn't having the desired effect-------------or was it ?
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I totally agree with you Maggie. ;D
Wow hello Patti so nice to see you on the forum again. Please stay the forum needs you X
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;D
That must be it. Sheila was from another planet and didn't suffer from the multiple and major side effects of Halperidol that everyone else suffers from.
If she's not from another planet, have you got a source that people are the 'exception to the rule'. Basically beating science & Haloperidol ?
Adam I think it is you that is from another planet :)) :)) :))
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It is true Haldol can cause awful side effects as shown in videos but not everyone suffers from all or any of these side effects.
Sheila may have suffered from some physical side effects particularly when she was on a really high dose but I would question that she was very impaired by such side effects and wasn't taking any drugs to counteract such side effects at the time of her death. I am sure Sheila would have taken such drugs if they were necessary.
She seems to have managed to live a relatively physically normal life. None of her friends who have commented or given statements mentioned her suffering from such symptoms which is significant imo.
Any comments have tended to be about her emotional and mental health difficulties.
We hear much about her manicured nails, make up she wore and smoking roll ups all of which require steady hands.
I don't believe Sheila murdered her family however I don't think there's any proof that Sheila was physically incapacitated by Haldol.
I have recently had the first hand of the affects of Haldol and the person in question was taking a really small dose and couldn't function anywhere near normality. All the things that Sheila usually did (smoking roll ups etc.) - we don't know that she was doing those things in the months before her death. There is a statement from a friend of her on the forum, that states Sheila looked a mess and her make-up was all over the place. Of course not everyone will experience the same side effects but the drug is in essence a sedative and as her doctor said, he believed she was over sedated.
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CAL said Sheila's best friend said Sheila needed help getting up from sofa's. A week before the massacre. AE said Sheila found it difficult putting sugar in coffee.
I have never seen a source that Sheila was smoking roll ups or varnishing her nails.
Everyone agrees she was on Haloperidol when at WHF. Her dosage had been reduced probably because she had previously literally been unable to move. Now she could move very slowly and with great difficulty.
The 2002 appeal also said she was under sedation, so easy prey for Bamber.
The suggestion that a recoverying anorexic on haloperidol committed the massacre is again closed.
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CAL said Sheila's best friend said Sheila needed help getting up from sofa's. A week before the massacre. AE said Sheila found it difficult putting sugar in coffee.
I have never seen a source that Sheila was smoking roll ups or varnishing her nails.
Everyone agrees she was on Haloperidol when at WHF. Her dosage had been reduced probably because she had previously literally been unable to move. Now she could move very slowly and with great difficulty.
The 2002 appeal also said she was under sedation, so easy prey for Bamber.
The suggestion that a recoverying anorexic on haloperidol committed the massacre is again closed.
Yet none of this relevant - on account of the fact that she did actually commit the killings.
These kinds of Haloperidol 'zombie' scenarios are silly. It doesn't really matter whether she was rolling expert rolly's in perfectly self-manicured nails, while simultaneously spilling spoonfuls of sugar, while being hoisted out of armchairs by friends etc.
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This has been discused a few times before.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,869.15.html
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here we are adam im suprised you missed this. http://psychrights.org/research/Digest/NLPs/RWhitakerAffidavit/Schulte.PDF
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CAL said Sheila's best friend said Sheila needed help getting up from sofa's. A week before the massacre. AE said Sheila found it difficult putting sugar in coffee.
I have never seen a source that Sheila was smoking roll ups or varnishing her nails.
Everyone agrees she was on Haloperidol when at WHF. Her dosage had been reduced probably because she had previously literally been unable to move. Now she could move very slowly and with great difficulty.
The 2002 appeal also said she was under sedation, so easy prey for Bamber.
The suggestion that a recoverying anorexic on haloperidol committed the massacre is again closed.
I notice that you didn't add that a friend of Sheila's also found her frightening because of her fixed stares,and that the friend had mentioned that her time in hospital hadn't appeared to have been an improvement. This was spoken by Tara,the friend,who'd also had an encounter with June when June had produced a prayer book which she handed to Tara. What was that all about ?
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adam had you not seen the previos thread before.
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adam had you not seen the previos thread before.
Neither thread has got anything to do with the 30+ syptoms which meant Sheila couldn't put sugar in coffee or get out of sofa's without help. Are you aware that Nevill was 6.4 and around 15 stone ?
Being 'zonked out' and not able to control her body meant Bamber knew she wouldn't wake while he went after the other adults. Sheila would then be easy to move a few feet.
This thread has been put into the library as the 41st thread link. Not sure what more incriminating evidence you need.
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Wow hello Patti so nice to see you on the forum again. Please stay the forum needs you X
Hello you. Might be here a bit more....lets see. :)
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CAL said Sheila's best friend said Sheila needed help getting up from sofa's. A week before the massacre. AE said Sheila found it difficult putting sugar in coffee.
I have never seen a source that Sheila was smoking roll ups or varnishing her nails.
Everyone agrees she was on Haloperidol when at WHF. Her dosage had been reduced probably because she had previously literally been unable to move. Now she could move very slowly and with great difficulty.
The 2002 appeal also said she was under sedation, so easy prey for Bamber.
The suggestion that a recoverying anorexic on haloperidol committed the massacre is again closed.
Hi Adam
If you look back and study Collin's book he does refer to Sheila to have having had problems with movements, but on the day he takes her to her parents home he never mentions that Sheila has a problem. He states she was quiet. The witnesses that saw Sheila that week never mention any strange movements either.
The fact that she could roll cigarettes might suggest that she had no problems at all, for one could not roll a cigarette at all.
It was also said that Sheila helped with a buffet prior to the murders. If she had problems, then how could she co-ordinate to roll cigarettes and makes help with a buffet. All the said statements or hearsay that Sheila could not co-ordinate properly were not recalled during the few weeks before the murders. In fact those that did state that Sheila had problems with co-ordination do state the dates on which this occurred.
It has also been said that when Shelia did have problems she was given a drug to counteract it. Although on saying that it is not clear if she actually took that medication, nor is it clear that such a drug was in her system in a toxicology report in 1985/6
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Hi Adam
If you look back and study Collin's book he does refer to Sheila to have having had problems with movements, but on the day he takes her to her parents home he never mentions that Sheila has a problem. He states she was quiet. The witnesses that saw Sheila that week never mention any strange movements either.
The fact that she could roll cigarettes might suggest that she had no problems at all, for one could not roll a cigarette at all.
It was also said that Sheila helped with a buffet prior to the murders. If she had problems, then how could she co-ordinate to roll cigarettes and makes help with a buffet. All the said statements or hearsay that Sheila could not co-ordinate properly were not recalled during the few weeks before the murders. In fact those that did state that Sheila had problems with co-ordination do state the dates on which this occurred.
It has also been said that when Shelia did have problems she was given a drug to counteract it. Although on saying that it is not clear if she actually took that medication, nor is it clear that such a drug was in her system in a toxicology report in 1985/6
Hi Patti, I agree the argument that Sheila was physically impaired at the time of the murders is not clear. Her medical history shows that she was taking Stelazine after diagnosis which must have been replaced by Haloperidol at some point, probably because Stelazine has severe physical effects such as lack of coordination, dyskinesia etc. Although all anti psychotic can cause physical symptoms its likely that the change in Sheila's meds had improved her physical condition and dealt with her lack of coordination, muscle spasms etc.
The most common side effects of Haloperidol seem to suggest she may have been suffering from over sedation, exhaustion etc. We do know June was worried about Sheila's condition when she spoke to Pamela hours before they all died therefore it appears there was something noticeably wrong with Sheila at that time, however no mention of physical difficulties at that time.
It is well documented that Sheila was very conscious of her appearance and the physical side effects such as grimacing etc. of dyskinesia would have been very distressing for her. I'm sure she would have taken any drugs prescribed to counteract such symptoms but there is no evidence she was taking such drugs
Tardive dyskinesia means slow onset dyskinesia.
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CAL said Sheila's best friend said Sheila needed help getting up from sofa's. A week before the massacre. AE said Sheila found it difficult putting sugar in coffee.
I have never seen a source that Sheila was smoking roll ups or varnishing her nails.
Everyone agrees she was on Haloperidol when at WHF. Her dosage had been reduced probably because she had previously literally been unable to move. Now she could move very slowly and with great difficulty.
The 2002 appeal also said she was under sedation, so easy prey for Bamber.
The suggestion that a recoverying anorexic on haloperidol committed the massacre is again closed.
Hi Adam, it's true we have no proof Sheila put varnish on her own nails, it's possible someone did it for her but we know she had varnished finger and toe nails from photos after she died.
It's well documented that appearance was very important to Sheila and that she wore makeup and generally presented as well groomed.
In her statement Helen Grimster tells us she was rolling and smoking rollups as she spoke with her on 30 March 1985. She made no comment at all of Sheila having any physical difficulty while doing this or anything else.
I believe JB is probably guilty but at the same time I don't believe there is any proof that Sheila was suffering from dyskinesia, certainly not anywhere near the extent you are claiming.
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I'm not claiming anything. Just posted 4 Youtube videos which posts 30+ effects of Haloperidol. All of which would make it impossible for Sheila to have committed the massacre.
Everyone agrees that Sheila was on this medication on the night of the massacre. There is no possibility she would not be experiencing a few of the 30+ effects.
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Hi Adam
If you look back and study Collin's book he does refer to Sheila to have having had problems with movements, but on the day he takes her to her parents home he never mentions that Sheila has a problem. He states she was quiet. The witnesses that saw Sheila that week never mention any strange movements either.
The fact that she could roll cigarettes might suggest that she had no problems at all, for one could not roll a cigarette at all.
It was also said that Sheila helped with a buffet prior to the murders. If she had problems, then how could she co-ordinate to roll cigarettes and makes help with a buffet. All the said statements or hearsay that Sheila could not co-ordinate properly were not recalled during the few weeks before the murders. In fact those that did state that Sheila had problems with co-ordination do state the dates on which this occurred.
It has also been said that when Shelia did have problems she was given a drug to counteract it. Although on saying that it is not clear if she actually took that medication, nor is it clear that such a drug was in her system in a toxicology report in 1985/6
That is wrong. Sheila's best friend said Sheila could not get off sofa's without assistance. A week before the murder.
Have you got a source that Sheila helped with a buffet ? Prior to the murders. Is that days, weeks or years beforehand. Putting plates on tables & committing a brutal massacre are very different.
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I'm not claiming anything. Just posted 4 Youtube videos which posts 30+ effects of Haloperidol. All of which would make it impossible for Sheila to have committed the massacre.
Everyone agrees that Sheila was on this medication on the night of the massacre. There is no possibility she would not be experiencing a few of the 30+ effects.
I did not say Sheila murdered anyone, I did say JB probably did.
I have not said she wasn't suffering any effects of Haloperidol, of course she must have been, it is a nasty drug with horrendous side effects.
Many side effects are not physical and from June's conversation with Pamela hours before they all died, which was reported in Pamela's statement, it is apparent June was worried about Sheila in some way.
I do question the fact Sheila was particularly physically impaired in August 1985 because there isn't any proof of this.
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That is wrong. Sheila's best friend said Sheila could not get off sofa's without assistance. A week before the murder.
Have you got a source that Sheila helped with a buffet ? Prior to the murders. Is that days, weeks or years beforehand. Putting plates on tables & committing a brutal massacre are very different.
Think you'll find no one has disputed Sheila may have been weak, exhausted etc.
Can't answer for Patti but I am just questioning your stAtement that she was so disabled she could hardly move.
She was seen jumping and laughing with the boys, she walked down to the fields with the boys to speak with Jeremy the day before the murders. She went shopping with June but there was no mention in statements of her walking or movement being impaired.
None of this means she killed anyone.
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http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2015-08-06/the-bamber-killings-thirty-years-on-part-1/
Here is the video that says Sheila couldn't get up from sofa's without help. A week before the massacre. Source CAL, who interviewed Sheila's best friend.
Sheila's psychiatrist also said the Haloperidol Sheila was taking was 'drug enduced parkinism'.
CAL also says in the video Sheila was 'too frail' to have committed the murders. CAL would know as had been investigating the case for a long time prior to writing a book.
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http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2015-08-06/the-bamber-killings-thirty-years-on-part-1/
Here is the video that says Sheila couldn't get up from sofa's without help. A week before the massacre. Source CAL, who interviewed Sheila's best friend.
Sheila's psychiatrist also said the Haloperidol Sheila was taking was 'drug enduced parkinism'.
CAL also says on the video Sheila was 'too frail' to have committed the murders. CAL would know as had been investigating the case for a long time prior to writing a book.
I have not said she did commit the murders, I don't believe she did.
I do not say she wasn't affected by Haloperidol, I get it Adam!
It is my opinion there is no proof she was physically affected by Haloperidol anywhere near the extent you claim.
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I have not said she did commit the murders, I don't believe she did.
I do not say she wasn't affected by Haloperidol, I get it Adam!
It is my opinion there is no proof she was physically affected by Haloperidol anywhere near the extent you claim.
Hi Maggie
I know the two shots received by Sheila has made you believe she was not capable of inflicting them we must ask Roch when he is on his explanation for the two shots and Sheila murdering her family.
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Hi Maggie
I know the two shots received by Sheila has made you believe she was not capable of inflicting them we must ask Roch when he is on his explanation for the two shots and Sheila murdering her family.
Hi Suse, that is one reason but there are other reasons as well. Some things just don't ring true to me.
I'm not adamant that he's guilty and do have a small element of doubt, however I'm always open to hearing other people's opinions.
I have always had respect for Roch and his opinions but even if Sheila could have shot herself twice somehow, in spite of the fact she would have been totally shocked and disorientated at the very least, it would only question a small part of my belief that JB killed them. :-\
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Think you'll find no one has disputed Sheila may have been weak, exhausted etc.
Can't answer for Patti but I am just questioning your stAtement that she was so disabled she could hardly move.
She was seen jumping and laughing with the boys, she walked down to the fields with the boys to speak with Jeremy the day before the murders. She went shopping with June but there was no mention in statements of her walking or movement being impaired.
None of this means she killed anyone.
Hi Maggie, I think it's written in CALs book that one of the shop keepers said she looked odd, far away and her movements were abnormal. Do we have anything official on the 'jumping and laughing' - I've never seen anything?
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Hi Maggie, I think it's written in CALs book that one of the shop keepers said she looked odd, far away and her movements were abnormal. Do we have anything official on the 'jumping and laughing' - I've never seen anything?
I'm not sure about the 'jumping and laughing' I had it in my head that it was a quote from Barbara Wilson but didn't have time to check this morning or particularly now. I agree it's difficult to remember sometimes if these quotes come from books or documents such as statements.
I'm sure she did look far away, any anti psychotic drug is horrendous with many side effects, there is no doubt about that and I would never deny it. Sheila may have been moving stiffly from the Haloperidol, it certainly has an effect on the muscles.
My argument is that there is no proof that Sheila was anything like as physically handicapped as some like to make out and we should stick to the facts as we know them. I find sweeping statements that interpret 'possible side effects' as fact that she suffered from them all as misleading. Imo it doesn't detract from my belief that she wasn't the murderer.
I will see if I can find any evidence of the jumping/skipping and laughing'. :)
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Hi Suse, that is one reason but there are other reasons as well. Some things just don't ring true to me.
I'm not adamant that he's guilty and do have a small element of doubt, however I'm always open to hearing other people's opinions.
I have always had respect for Roch and his opinions but even if Sheila could have shot herself twice somehow, in spite of the fact she would have been totally shocked and disorientated at the very least, it would only question a small part of my belief that JB killed them. :-\
Hi Maggie
I honestly don't know anything about the shots to Sheila's neck I am not clever enough to work out the angle etc but I have niggling thoughts as to whether JB is guilty and I too have tremendous respect for Roch and he seems to be adamant that Sheila did shoot her family then herself so I am left with doubts I am being totally honest and I am confused :)
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Hi Maggie
I honestly don't know anything about the shots to Sheila's neck I am not clever enough to work out the angle etc but I have niggling thoughts as to whether JB is guilty and I too have tremendous respect for Roch and he seems to be adamant that Sheila did shoot her family then herself so I am left with doubts I am being totally honest and I am confused :)
Have you not read the thread ?
Sheila couldn't put sugar in coffee or get off sofa's without help. Just before the massacre. Sources posted on this thread.
She was on a high dosage of Haloperidol. Which would have reduced her bodily functions by up to 80%. Videos posted on this thread.
The suggestion that Sheila carried out the massacre has been closed.
Sheila being shot twice doesn't help supporters but is a minor issue in the big scheme of things.
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Have you not read the thread ?
Sheila couldn't put sugar in coffee or get off sofa's without help. Just before the massacre. Sources posted on this thread.
She was on a high dosage of Haloperidol. Which would have reduced her bodily functions by up to 80%. Videos posted on this thread.
The suggestion that Sheila carried out the massacre has been closed.
Sheila being shot twice doesn't help supporters but is a minor issue in the big scheme of things.
Whoops Adam you know I never read threads I am too lazy and get you to give me all the details I am sorry I did not realise the discussion that Sheila may have committed the murders has been closed I just don't keep up do I.
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Whoops Adam you know I never read threads I am too lazy and get you to give me all the details I am sorry I did not realise the discussion that Sheila may have committed the murders has been closed I just don't keep up do I.
This thread has been added to my forensic evidence library. Which has 41 threads showing Bamber is guilty. It's there for everyone. You may have missed it as was not posting.
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This thread has been added to my forensic evidence library. Which has 41 threads showing Bamber is guilty. It's there for everyone.
Adam you have convinced me I am wrong again I am off to your Forensic library and I will be back thinking he is guilty when I have read 41 threads
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Adam you have convinced me I am wrong again I am off to your Forensic library and I will be back thinking he is guilty when I have read 41 threads
I'm not sure how long my convincing success will last. Roch could re surface and say 'Sheila did it' at any time.
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I'm not sure about the 'jumping and laughing' I had it in my head that it was a quote from Barbara Wilson but didn't have time to check this morning or particularly now. I agree it's difficult to remember sometimes if these quotes come from books or documents such as statements.
I'm sure she did look far away, any anti psychotic drug is horrendous with many side effects, there is no doubt about that and I would never deny it. Sheila may have been moving stiffly from the Haloperidol, it certainly has an effect on the muscles.
My argument is that there is no proof that Sheila was anything like as physically handicapped as some like to make out and we should stick to the facts as we know them. I find sweeping statements that interpret 'possible side effects' as fact that she suffered from them all as misleading. Imo it doesn't detract from my belief that she wasn't the murderer.
I will see if I can find any evidence of the jumping/skipping and laughing'. :)
I think the quote about the skipping up the lane might have just come from here ;) - I could be wrong though.
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I think the quote about the skipping up the lane might have just come from here ;) - I could be wrong though.
Mmmmmm, it may have done or maybe Scott Lomax? I don't have his book to hand just now but it may have been in his book or it could have been hearsay. :-\
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The only sourced information is in reply 47.
It says Sheila was 'too frail' to committ the massacre, had 'drug induced parkinism' & a week before the massacre 'couldn't get off sofa's without help'.
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I can't find the reference anywhere. It may have been embellished from Julie and Leonard Foakes' remarks about Sheila appearing normal with the twins on the Tuesday afternoon. (2002 Appeal Point 22).
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I can't find the reference anywhere. It may have been embellished from Julie and Leonard Foakes' remarks about Sheila appearing normal with the twins on the Tuesday afternoon. (2002 Appeal Point 22).
Len Foakes said he saw Sheila and she seemed happy.The judge said the alleged supper conversation should not be a factor as Bamber said Sheila was non responsive.
It says Halioperidol should be taken just before or after a meal. If Sheila was non responsive to the possibility of having her children taken away, she may well have taken a dose at supper.
Anyway, just before or after supper Sheila would have been oblivious to the world that night & unable to walk down the stairs.
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Sheila hadn't taken a dose of anything. Haloperidol had been administered over 3 weeks previous,intramuscularly---------therefore not needing another dose,except medication for its side-effects,which she hadn't taken. NO medication in her body other than what remained of the Haldol.
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Sheila hadn't taken a dose of anything. Haloperidol had been administered over 3 weeks previous,intramuscularly---------therefore not needing another dose,except medication for its side-effects,which she hadn't taken. NO medication in her body other than what remained of the Haldol.
Need to see a source. Otherwise the evidence from Bamber is that she was 'non responsive' to suggestions of having her children taken away from her. Which strongly supports the 2002 appeal saying she was under sedation.
Bamber going to supper and then ringing Julie to say 'tonights the night' may have also meant he knew Sheila was totally out of it.
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Need to see a source. Otherwise the evidence from Bamber is that she was 'non responsive' to suggestions of having her children taken away from her.
Bamber going to supper and then ringing Julie to say 'tonights the night' may have also meant he knew Sheila was totally out of it.
You have bad memory failure ! Or a selective one !! You'll make anything up if it fits your agenda.
Let me tell you now for what it's worth-----you're on a losing battle and you're struggling !!
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You have bad memory failure ! Or a selective one !! You'll make anything up if it fits your agenda.
Let me tell you now for what it's worth-----you're on a losing battle and you're struggling !!
So no source.
Sheila being 'non responsive' to something as emotive as having her children taken away supports the 2002 appeal saying she was under sedation. Quite possibly she had just taken Haloperidol.
To be 'non responsive' & then go 'crazy' a few hours later at 3.00am does not make sense. Once Haloperidol zonks you out, you stay zonked out.
Bamber ringing Julie for the first time in 3 days just before the massacre suggests he knew Sheila was out of it.
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So no source.
Sheila being 'non responsive' to something as emotive as having her children taken away supports the 2002 appeal saying she was under sedation. Quite possibly she had just taken Haloperidol.
To be 'non responsive' & then go 'crazy' a few hours later at 3.00am does not make sense. Once Haloperidol zonks you out, you stay zonked out.
Bamber ringing Julie for the first time in 3 days just before the massacre suggests he knew Sheila was out of it.
See Dr Angeloglou's statement regarding monthly injections of Haloperidol.
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See Dr Angeloglou's statement regarding monthly injections of Haloperidol.
I wish you & Lookout would post sources. I've supplied 5 on this thread. You've both got enough time to do so.
As mentioned to be 'non responsive' to something as emotive as having children taken away, and for Bamber to ring Julie for the first time in 3 days as soon as he got home, shows he knew Sheila was there for the taking.
You can take Haloperidol orally if the injections are losing effectiveness. Either way, Sheila couldn't function if suffering from just a handful of the 30+ side effects.
The 2002 appeal said Sheila was 'under sedation' . This together with Haloperidol highlights why Sheila couldn't get off sofa's without help.
Sheila being non responsive at supper due to sedation & Haloperidol means she would just sleep at night & would be very difficult to wake.
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I wish you & Lookout would post sources. I've supplied 5 on this thread. You've both got enough time to do so.
As mentioned to be 'non responsive' to something as emotive as having children taken away, and for Bamber to ring Julie for the first time in 3 days as soon as he got home, suggests he knew Sheila was there for the taking.
The 2002 appeal said Sheila was 'under sedation' . This together with Haloperidol highlights why Sheila couldn't get off sofa's without help.
Sheila being non responsive at supper due to sedation & Haloperidol means she would just sleep at night & would be very difficult to wake. Not go crazy.
I wasn't aware that I hadn't. It was very simple. I clicked on Archive and Library then clicked on WS's and Transcripts. Lo and behold, there was Dr Angeloglou. I read what she said and passed the information to you.
I have no doubts that Sheila was non responsive. Too many have reported her -during her last fortnight- as being such, for it to be denied. However, whilst you seen to think that, on a scale of 1 to 10, Sheila measured 12, I'm more inclined to put her around 7.
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.drugs.com/cdi/haloperidol.html&ved=0ahUKEwjJlNj0vIXTAhWLAcAKHcW9CgwQFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNFVuvqDcY1k0smWPRfe8kvOJc7xig
Here are 50 + side effects of Haloperidol. Some of which had already been mentioned in this thread.
If Sheila experienced 10 of these on the massacre night, (which is a small percentage), then she couldn't have functioned.
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.drugs.com/cdi/haloperidol.html&ved=0ahUKEwjJlNj0vIXTAhWLAcAKHcW9CgwQFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNFVuvqDcY1k0smWPRfe8kvOJc7xig
Here are 50 + side effects of Haloperidol. Some of which had already been mentioned in this thread.
If Sheila experienced 10 of these on the massacre night, (which is a small percentage), then she couldn't have functioned.
I fail to see the point you're trying to make. You need to clarify exactly what you mean by "functioning". If the contraindications -provided with the drug- list 50 POSSIBLE side effects, there will certainly be 50 POSSIBLE side effects, but it doesn't mean that every person taking that drug will suffer them all. They MAY not suffer any. WHAT makes you think Sheila suffered 10?
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I fail to see the point you're trying to make. You need to clarify exactly what you mean by "functioning". If the contraindications -provided with the drug- list 50 POSSIBLE side effects, there will certainly be 50 POSSIBLE side effects, but it doesn't mean that every person taking that drug will suffer them all. They MAY not suffer any. WHAT makes you think Sheila suffered 10?
I didn't say Sheila would suffer all the side effects. My suggestion of 10 is a generous suggestion & small percentagae of what Sheila could be suffering from the multiple effects of Haloperidol. This would still mean Sheila would not be able to function.
Functioning means doing basic things such as getting off sofa's without assistance. Or putting sugar in coffee. Things Sheila couldn't do. Not being able to do these things means she couldn't have committed a much more demanding massacre.
The two points of the thread I created is Sheila physically and mentally was not able to commit the massacre. And was easy prey for Bamber. Due to Haloperidol. Two important points.
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I didn't say Sheila would suffer all the side effects. My suggestion of 10 is a generous suggestion & small percentagae of what Sheila could be suffering from the multiple effects of Haloperidol. This would still mean Sheila would not be able to function.
Functioning means doing basic things such as getting off sofa's without assistance. Or putting sugar in coffee. Things Sheila couldn't do. Not being able to do these things means she couldn't have committed a much more demanding massacre.
The two points of the thread I created is Sheila physically and mentally was not able to commit the massacre. And was easy prey for Bamber. Due to Haloperidol. Two important points.
From what has -universally- been said of her behaviours during her last fortnight, I'd have said -and believed- committing a massacre was highly improbable
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From what has -universally- been said of her behaviours during her last fortnight, I'd have said -and believed- committing a massacre was highly improbable
And you'd know that ? Sheila had been violent !! Hence the LARGE dose of Haloperidol.
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And you'd know that ? Sheila had been violent !! Hence the LARGE dose of Haloperidol.
Yes, Lookout. She'd been ill. She'd undoubtedly been agitated, but there was nothing said of her being violent to anyone. Even if Freddie had been scared for his safety, NOTHING happened. The "LARGE" dose of Haloperidol was probably to calm her quickly.
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Yes, Lookout. She'd been ill. She'd undoubtedly been agitated, but there was nothing said of her being violent to anyone. Even if Freddie had been scared for his safety, NOTHING happened. The "LARGE" dose of Haloperidol was probably to calm her quickly.
Nobody dishes out Haloperidol because they're " ill " !!
Why calm her " quickly ?" There were other things.
Why was a big,young man like Freddie scared ?
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From what has -universally- been said of her behaviours during her last fortnight, I'd have said -and believed- committing a massacre was highly improbable
::)
I'm really not certain what you see as being "heavily medicated" Sheila, if anything was UNDER medicated.
I know you keep labouring the point that Sheila was over medicated and there WERE times during her stay that she appeared lethargic but it is also true that she ran screaming from the monastery, a VAST distance from WHF. It is also true that she screamed at the man who had come to read the meters. It has also been said that she was seen to be skipping with the twins. All this activity requires an energy, that had she been as severely over medicated as you suggest, she wouldn't have had.
(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/lol_ricky_gervais.gif)
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Nobody dishes out Haloperidol because they're " ill " !!
Why calm her " quickly ?" There were other things.
Why was a big,young man like Freddie scared ?
Without seeing her notes, I can only speculate, but from what Freddie said, it was very likely that she was scared and agitated. It would follow that both would escalate simultaneously and would need to be addressed. To ask "why a big, young man like Freddie scared" on would first need to know how many he'd witnessed who were mentally ill. How do you 'know' "there were other things"? You weren't there and no one has reported such.
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::)
(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/lol_ricky_gervais.gif)
David, I'm neither bothered nor embarrassed by the fact that I once believed Jeremy to be innocent, so if you can't find anything better to do with your time than drag up my past posts, that's fine. If anything bothers me, it's that I sucked up all the lies I was being told at the time regarding certain things which would -allegedly- prove him innocent. What does interest me is WHY someone who believes themselves to be holding the key to Jeremy's freedom should waste their time posting on a forum taking the p*** out of anyone who challenges them. NOW, you're back on ignore.
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David, I'm neither bothered nor embarrassed by the fact that I once believed Jeremy to be innocent, so if you can't find anything better to do with your time than drag up my past posts, that's fine. If anything bothers me, it's that I sucked up all the lies I was being told at the time regarding certain things which would -allegedly- prove him innocent. What does interest me is WHY someone who believes themselves to be holding the key to Jeremy's freedom should waste their time posting on a forum taking the p*** out of anyone who challenges them. NOW, you're back on ignore.
How do you expect anyone to ever trust what you say Jane ? Apart from the fact that you now BELIEVE Jeremy to be guilty,what was your REAL reason for changing sides ?
Is it to wind people up ? So when this case comes to its conclusion you can use that as your excuse to cover your abysmal knowledge .
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How do you expect anyone to ever trust what you say Jane ? Apart from the fact that you now BELIEVE Jeremy to be guilty,what was your REAL reason for changing sides ?
Is it to wind people up ? So when this case comes to its conclusion you can use that as your excuse to cover your abysmal knowledge .
Firstly, I don't CARE whether or not people trust what I say. It's their choice. It's my opinion. Incidentally, I wonder how much others care about whether or not they're believed? For the most part they're fingers on a keyboard, those who DO have points to push, spinning whatever they hope will be believed. Secondly, WHY does everything have to be in terms of black or white? WHY must there be "A" reason for anyone to change their mind. It didn't happen like Saul on the road to Damascus. There was no blinding light. Rather, it probably started by acknowledging that what I'd believed -TRUSTED!- to be true, was actually all lies. I guess you know what happens when a door is taken off the latch? Yeah, that's right, it gets opened wider. No different, really, from what happens in the real world when you realize you've been had.
As for MY "abysmal knowledge"? I'm afraid you're looking in that mirror of yours again.
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Firstly, I don't CARE whether or not people trust what I say. It's their choice. It's my opinion. Incidentally, I wonder how much others care about whether or not they're believed? For the most part they're fingers on a keyboard, those who DO have points to push, spinning whatever they hope will be believed. Secondly, WHY does everything have to be in terms of black or white? WHY must there be "A" reason for anyone to change their mind. It didn't happen like Saul on the road to Damascus. There was no blinding light. Rather, it probably started by acknowledging that what I'd believed -TRUSTED!- to be true, was actually all lies. I guess you know what happens when a door is taken off the latch? Yeah, that's right, it gets opened wider. No different, really, from what happens in the real world when you realize you've been had.
As for MY "abysmal knowledge"? I'm afraid you're looking in that mirror of yours again.
Well,a load of twaddle about nothing really. Empty vessel syndrome.
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Well,a load of twaddle about nothing really. Empty vessel syndrome.
GOD, you can't even get mental disorders right, can you?
Mirror, mirror on the wall,
Lookout's bulls%t beats them all.
She thinks she's seeing someone else
But she's only talking to herself.
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GOD, you can't even get mental disorders right, can you?
Mirror, mirror on the wall,
Lookout's bulls%t beats them all.
She thinks she's seeing someone else
But she's only talking to herself.
Oh dear,is that the best you can do ? If all else fails,throw in an insult ::)
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Oh dear,is that the best you can do ? If all else fails,throw in an insult ::)
Only matching yours, Lookout. I actually think you enjoy being spiteful. I've noticed that when you're being ignored you find a reason to complain that you're always picked on.
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Only matching yours, Lookout. I actually think you enjoy being spiteful. I've noticed that when you're being ignored you find a reason to complain that you're always picked on.
I couldn't be spiteful if I tried,it's not in my make-up,never has been,but there are some to whom it comes naturally !
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I couldn't be spiteful if I tried,it's not in my make-up,never has been,but there are some to whom it comes naturally !
Try sitting where I am, Lookout!!! It'll give you a clearer picture of just HOW spiteful you can be.
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Try sitting where I am, Lookout!!! It'll give you a clearer picture of just HOW spiteful you can be.
Quite the clairvoyant too. Or is that telepathist ? You'll be seeing robins landing on the windowsill next.
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How do you expect anyone to ever trust what you say Jane ? Apart from the fact that you now BELIEVE Jeremy to be guilty,what was your REAL reason for changing sides ?
Is it to wind people up ? So when this case comes to its conclusion you can use that as your excuse to cover your abysmal knowledge .
The only one here with abysmal knowledge is you Lookout. You don't care if it's true or not, you post it anyway, as long as it points to an innocent Jeremy. Your posts on Sheila being a party animal are both offensive as untrue. Don't let that stop you though.
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The only one here with abysmal knowledge is you Lookout. You don't care if it's true or not, you post it anyway, as long as it points to an innocent Jeremy. Your posts on Sheila being a party animal are both offensive as untrue. Don't let that stop you though.
I DIDN'T say that Sheila was a " party animal ",though even if I HAD said it WHY would it be offensive ??
Sheila liked the bright lights of London and what it had to offer.Are you now disagreeing with this,or was it the more sedate setting of WHF and its surrounds ?
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I DIDN'T say that Sheila was a " party animal ",though even if I HAD said it WHY would it be offensive ??
Sheila liked the bright lights of London and what it had to offer.Are you now disagreeing with this,or was it the more sedate setting of WHF and its surrounds ?
Because the way you put it -have ALWAYS put it- put s Sheila across as being a promiscuous drug addict when it was as much about being away from her parents as living in London.
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Because the way you put it -have ALWAYS put it- put s Sheila across as being a promiscuous drug addict when it was as much about being away from her parents as living in London.
" Promiscuous drug-addict " now. I'm so glad I didn't say that !!
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" Promiscuous drug-addict " now. I'm so glad I didn't say that !!
But EXACTLY that, is what you imply. I seem to recall that a one time member here accused you of referring to Sheila as being promiscuous. I'd remind you that there's no evidence of it, but when did that bother you when it comes to defending Jeremy at whatever the cost to others' characters?
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But EXACTLY that, is what you imply. I seem to recall that a one time member here accused you of referring to Sheila as being promiscuous. I'd remind you that there's no evidence of it, but when did that bother you when it comes to defending Jeremy at whatever the cost to others' characters?
I defend myself on here--------then I defend Jeremy. You put David on ignore for digging up old posts,now I'll do the same to you. It works both ways !!
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I defend myself on here--------then I defend Jeremy. You put David on ignore for digging up old posts,now I'll do the same to you. It works both ways !!
You may not say the words, but your actions show EXACTLY how what you are differs from how you see yourself. You've gone to a hell of a lot of trouble to avoid apologizing, AGAIN!! Acting with sheer COWARDICE!!! Do me a favour, PLEASE. Put me on ignore.
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I DIDN'T say that Sheila was a " party animal ",though even if I HAD said it WHY would it be offensive ??
Sheila liked the bright lights of London and what it had to offer.Are you now disagreeing with this,or was it the more sedate setting of WHF and its surrounds ?
No, as usual, you didn't use those exact words but you more than implied it. People don't just live in London for 'bright lights'. She lived there with Colin, she was used to it - that doesn't mean she was out every night which of course - she wasn't.
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No, as usual, you didn't use those exact words but you more than implied it. People don't just live in London for 'bright lights'. She lived there with Colin, she was used to it - that doesn't mean she was out every night which of course - she wasn't.
Sheila divorced 3 years after marriage,so had the choice whether to stay in London or go and live near her parents-------------she preferred London,even on her own !
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Sheila divorced 3 years after marriage,so had the choice whether to stay in London or go and live near her parents-------------she preferred London,even on her own !
Hmm? Freedom or imprisonment? What would any of us choose?
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Sheila divorced 3 years after marriage,so had the choice whether to stay in London or go and live near her parents-------------she preferred London,even on her own !
BY then it was her home and the twins were settled there,
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She was on her own in all but name, but dependent on June for food and money. In those last few weeks sensing her daughter's desperation she had made arrangements for Sheila to be granted an annual allowance of £3000 to be paid in quarterly instalments in an attempt to alleviate her desolation at losing the children during the week and the fading hopes of reconciliation with Colin.
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Sheila couldn't cope on her own,let alone look after twins. Her neighbours were her only salvation when Sheila had screaming fits through the night. What sort of a life was that for her with no-one to turn to?
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Sheila couldn't cope on her own,let alone look after twins. Her neighbours were her only salvation when Sheila had screaming fits through the night. What sort of a life was that for her with no-one to turn to?
I think that's why June was trying to arrange for Sheila to get a job at Osea Road for £40 per week. I do get the impression that the Boutflours were fiercely protective of the caravan park and maybe June didn't have the courage to ask her sister to get her niece a job there.
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I think that's why June was trying to arrange for Sheila to get a job at Osea Road for £40 per week. I do get the impression that the Boutflours were fiercely protective of the caravan park and maybe June didn't have the courage to ask her sister to get her niece a job there.
Yet it was June who founded the caravan park in her early years,but that went unrecognised. It proves how the Bambers were shunned so it's no wonder there was no love lost between families.
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Sheila couldn't cope on her own,let alone look after twins. Her neighbours were her only salvation when Sheila had screaming fits through the night. What sort of a life was that for her with no-one to turn to?
You've changed the subject - according to you she liked to live there because she liked going out. Now you have her unable to cope screaming through the night. Neither one is accurate - but keep exaggerating.
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You've changed the subject - according to you she liked to live there because she liked going out. Now you have her unable to cope screaming through the night. Neither one is accurate - but keep exaggerating.
I haven't changed the subject at all ( don't you ever stop picking ? ::)
Sheila hadn't bargained to fall ill did she ? Her idea had been to live there as a FAMILY,but Colin put paid to that by finding someone else,then taking away the children to live most of the time with him and the girlfriend,leaving Sheila,her dreams shattered and suffering night terrors.Fortunately she had a good neighbour who'd called when hearing the screams. That neighbour's name is on the forum somewhere,also the fact that Sheila used to scream,so it's no exaggerating on my part-------more loss of memory on yours !!
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I haven't changed the subject at all ( don't you ever stop picking ? ::)
Sheila hadn't bargained to fall ill did she ? Her idea had been to live there as a FAMILY,but Colin put paid to that by finding someone else,then taking away the children to live most of the time with him and the girlfriend,leaving Sheila,her dreams shattered and suffering night terrors.Fortunately she had a good neighbour who'd called when hearing the screams. That neighbour's name is on the forum somewhere,also the fact that Sheila used to scream,so it's no exaggerating on my part-------more loss of memory on yours !!
Yes you are (don't you ever stop whining?). No you're once again exaggerating - Sheila was taking anti-psychotic meds before the murders. You're taking something that happened on occasion and trying to suggest it was frequent.
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Yes you are (don't you ever stop whining?). No you're once again exaggerating - Sheila was taking anti-psychotic meds before the murders. You're taking something that happened on occasion and trying to suggest it was frequent
Now it's you who's gone haywire ! I hadn't mentioned meds.
You're clearly making something out of nothing---------
I happened to have mentioned that she preferred living where she was rather than near her parents ???
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Now it's you who's gone haywire ! I hadn't mentioned meds.
You're clearly making something out of nothing---------
I happened to have mentioned that she preferred living where she was rather than near her parents ???
There were no recent report of her screaming, which is what you were implying. You were also suggesting she liked living in London for the night life - for which there is no evidence.
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I haven't changed the subject at all ( don't you ever stop picking ? ::)
Sheila hadn't bargained to fall ill did she ? Her idea had been to live there as a FAMILY,but Colin put paid to that by finding someone else,then taking away the children to live most of the time with him and the girlfriend,leaving Sheila,her dreams shattered and suffering night terrors.Fortunately she had a good neighbour who'd called when hearing the screams. That neighbour's name is on the forum somewhere,also the fact that Sheila used to scream,so it's no exaggerating on my part-------more loss of memory on yours !!
Just as well you've got me on ignore because I'm about to tell you that you exaggerate beyond reason. You've called me a LIAR for less. You have no idea what was the dynamic between Sheila and Colin -like Diana, as you've suggested she was, she was probably far too insecure for ANY man to make her happy- and I very much doubt that he was the cause of her night terrors as you insinuate. NOR do I believe her neighbour to have been disturbed nightly by "the fact that Sheila used to scream".
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There were no recent report of her screaming, which is what you were implying. You were also suggesting she liked living in London for the night life - for which there is no evidence.
Your friend Jane wrote a post about her neighbour hearing screams !!
Why was it that Sheila preferred London,then ?
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Your friend Jane wrote a post about her neighbour hearing screams !!
Why was it that Sheila preferred London,then ?
If it wasn't recent to the massacre, presumably it was prior to her first breakdown in 1983. Why did Sheila prefer London? Too stupid a question to be worthy of an answer, isn't it?
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Your friend Jane wrote a post about her neighbour hearing screams !!
Why was it that Sheila preferred London,then ?
Because she preferred it - I used to live in Newcastle but didn't go out every night. I liked the city life, shopping etc. Sheila had a lot on her plate and didn't have the money to go out every night or even on regular occasions. There is no evidence for what you are claiming.
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It has,and is known,that those who are taking Haloperidol do relapse during its therapy. Many have expressed doubt as to its ability of an anti-psychotic other than the approved tolerability. The argument for conventional agents such as Risperidone increases.
Risperidone and Clozapine are both more effective in treating " negative " schizophrenia symptoms such as withdrawal from social interactions and blunted emotional expression.
For " positive " symptoms of delusions and hallucinations,Risperidone was found to be superior in a combined analysis of large controlled trials.
Risperidone was found to reduce the numbers of relapses which occurred during schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorders compared with Haloperidol, as well as being tolerant.
The full clinical benefits of treatment with antipsychotic drugs should be judged over an extended period.
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It has,and is known,that those who are taking Haloperidol do relapse during its therapy. Many have expressed doubt as to its ability of an anti-psychotic other than the approved tolerability. The argument for conventional agents such as Risperidone increases.
Risperidone and Clozapine are both more effective in treating " negative " schizophrenia symptoms such as withdrawal from social interactions and blunted emotional expression.
For " positive " symptoms of delusions and hallucinations,Risperidone was found to be superior in a combined analysis of large controlled trials.
Risperidone was found to reduce the numbers of relapses which occurred during schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorders compared with Haloperidol, as well as being tolerant.
Then trials must be run on those being prescribed these drugs in 1985.
The full clinical benefits of treatment with antipsychotic drugs should be judged over an extended period.
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It has,and is known,that those who are taking Haloperidol do relapse during its therapy. Many have expressed doubt as to its ability of an anti-psychotic other than the approved tolerability. The argument for conventional agents such as Risperidone increases.
Risperidone and Clozapine are both more effective in treating " negative " schizophrenia symptoms such as withdrawal from social interactions and blunted emotional expression.
For " positive " symptoms of delusions and hallucinations,Risperidone was found to be superior in a combined analysis of large controlled trials.
Risperidone was found to reduce the numbers of relapses which occurred during schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorders compared with Haloperidol, as well as being tolerant.
The full clinical benefits of treatment with antipsychotic drugs should be judged over an extended period.
Sheila had only started taking it, people seem to be trying to do their level best to find excuses for why Sheila would have a psychotic attack even though she was taking medication. It won't work.
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Sheila had only started taking it, people seem to be trying to do their level best to find excuses for why Sheila would have a psychotic attack even though she was taking medication. It won't work.
All the more reason for the lack of assessment of the drug--------it wasn't working,was it,even at its early stages of having been administered ? It was purely and simply used as a " cosh " !!
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All the more reason for the lack of assessment of the drug--------it wasn't working,was it,even at its early stages of having been administered ? It was purely and simply used as a " cosh " !!
So then, trials must be run to see just how many others suffered the same effect, from Haloperidol, resulting in murder/suicide, in 1985. Seemples, yes?
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All the more reason for the lack of assessment of the drug--------it wasn't working,was it,even at its early stages of having been administered ? It was purely and simply used as a " cosh " !!
That's right, which is why it was reduced - the reduction was still a high dose.
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That's right, which is why it was reduced - the reduction was still a high dose.
High dose==cosh ! They obviously didn't know what else they could do. Sheila clearly wasn't as stupid as they when realising that such a high dose wasn't suitable,so at her request got it reduced.
Much the same as today where prescriptions are given,but very few are monitored or assessed.
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Lookout it seems to me as if the NHS is overburdened today to say the least, with tragic consequences. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-39489007
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Lookout it seems to me as if the NHS is overburdened today to say the least, with tragic consequences. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-39489007
Yes,they are overburdened Steve. Very much so might I add, as has recently been proved by a family member who is now critically ill I've just heard.
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Interesting! http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/495707
Abstract
• This study explored the relationships between plasma levels and the clinical effects of haloperidol in 176 acutely exacerbated schizophrenic or schizoaffective patients. After a single-blind placebo period of 1 week (period 1), they entered the double-blind period 2 randomly assigned to one of three plasma levels of haloperidol: low (2 to 13 ng/mL), medium (13.1 to 24 ng/mL), or high (24.1 to 35 ng/mL). Patients whose conditions did not improve in period 2 continued on one of the three haloperidol levels (period 3). Periods 2 and 3 lasted 6 weeks each. Only minor differences in clinical responses were noted among the three levels of haloperidol. These results imply that low or moderate doses of neuroleptics are appropriate for many acutely psychotic patients.
Sheila has 15 ng/ml in her system (thanks Holly) - a moderate level
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So not enough to have caused oversedation.
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So not enough to have caused oversedation.
Sheila couldn't function due to the Haloperidol. She had a moderate amount inside her.
It is a very powerful drug with up to 100 side effects which this thread has shown.
Bamber could easily move her a few yards.
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100 side-effects now ? The other day it was 60------make up your mind.LIST THEM !!
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100 side-effects now ? The other day it was 60------make up your mind.LIST THEM !!
Up to a 100. I found 60 in a few minutes which are in this thread. So there will be more.
The side effects all effect Sheila's ability to physically and mentally function. Making it impossible to commit the massacre.
The massacre was much too physical, intense, brutal, lenghty & complicated for her. But she was easy for Bamber to control for a short period.
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Get real ! What's physical in holding a rifle against those who are unarmed ? Sheila had the upper hand and had been determined to shoot !
What would you have done--------------talked her to death ??
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Get real ! What's physical in holding a rifle against those who are unarmed ? Sheila had the upper hand and had been determined to shoot !
What would you have done--------------talked her to death ??
Unfortunately, (as you said) Sheila had to put the silencer on & take it off.
She also had to chamber, load & breach the rifle (twice). Win a fight with a 6.4, 15 stone male, read the bible & accurrately fire 26 shots, some into a moving target.
Sheila was not able to get off sofa's without help. Or put sugar in coffee.
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So not enough to have caused oversedation.
Certainly not low enough for a psychotic episode! As she was just getting used to the meds, of course it was enough to cause over sedation and her DOCTOR thought so!
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Unfortunately, (as you said) Sheila had to put the silencer on & take it off.
She also had to chamber, load & breach the rifle (twice). Win a fight with a 6.4, 15 stone male, read the bible & accurrately fire 26 shots, some into a moving target.
Sheila was not able to get off sofa's without help. Or put sugar in coffee.
You're beginning to sound like a parrot. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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You're beginning to sound like a parrot. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Lookout Sheila could not have committed the massacre.
If you are still going to say Bamber is innocent, you will have to agree with Mike that it was a hit man team.
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What a thoroughly obnoxious,con-trolling individual you are !!
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What a thoroughly obnoxious,con-trolling individual you are !!
lookout I think I know who you are talking about ;D
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You're beginning to sound like a parrot. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Adam why would Sheila use a silencer? She would have the advantage over her Dad if he had been shot prior to the struggle in the kitchen.
Sorry lookout this is in reply to Adam when he was being a parrot and posted in the wrong bit :'(
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Adam why would Sheila use a silencer? She would have the advantage over her Dad if he had been shot prior to the struggle in the kitchen.
Sorry lookout this is in reply to Adam when he was being a parrot and posted in the wrong bit :'(
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8255.0.html
Agree.
Bamber said he left the rifle without the silencer. Only Lookout has said Sheila put the silencer on. Although Nevill was awake.
This suggestion has received no support. See recent thread above.
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8255.0.html
Agree.
Bamber said he left the rifle without the silencer. Only Lookout has said Sheila put the silencer on. Although Nevill was awake.
This suggestion has received no support. See recent thread above.
Hi Adam
I did not realise only lookout thought the silencer was used. My mistake.
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Withdrawal effects from Haloperidol was also responsible for the deaths of 5 children belonging to Andrea Yates when she drowned them all.
Weaning by degrees to a half dose is recommended,as is monitoring for effects as the process of a sudden reduction can cause violence in an already vulnerable and usually suicidal individual.
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Withdrawal effects from Haloperidol was also responsible for the deaths of 5 children belonging to Andrea Yates when she drowned them all.
Weaning by degrees to a half dose is recommended,as is monitoring for effects as the process of a sudden reduction can cause violence in an already vulnerable and usually suicidal individual.
No it wasn't!
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Withdrawal effects from Haloperidol was also responsible for the deaths of 5 children belonging to Andrea Yates when she drowned them all.
Weaning by degrees to a half dose is recommended,as is monitoring for effects as the process of a sudden reduction can cause violence in an already vulnerable and usually suicidal individual.
Do you have empirical evidence of this claim, because it seems as if there are those here who have it of quite the opposite of what you'd have us believe. I have no idea what the contraindications -provided with the drug- are of Haloperidol, but I was once taking meds which warned of the dangers of stopping them without medical supervision. It didn't however, mention the possibility of violence.
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There were similarities and differences. It was the husband who was the religious individual, not Andrea. She seemed to the layman like me to be on a cocktail of drugs:
Russell Yates has said that his wife had taken four drugs for her emotional difficulties. One of them, Haldol (haloperidol) is particularly powerful, utilized, according to a mental health monograph, “in the management of manifestations of acute and chronic psychosis, including schizophrenia and manic states.” Andrea started using the drug, often prescribed for people hearing voices or thinking delusionally, after the birth of her fourth child.
At the time of the June 20 tragedy she was taking Effexor and Remeron, both anti-depressants, and had been previously taking Wellbutrin, another anti-depressant, as well as Haldol. Yates told the press that his wife had been in therapy, but was not at the time of the killings. “He said they had recently talked about her going into therapy again but she had not got around to it yet,” the Houston Chronicle reported.
Her symptoms seemed to be similar to Sheila's:
Yates also explained that the birth of the couple’s fifth child and the death of his wife’s father had triggered another episode of extreme depression. She had become withdrawn and “robotic” in her movements in the three weeks before the children’s killings, he said. Her brother has told the press that Andrea put a knife to her own throat while visiting her mother’s house this spring—presumably after her father’s death—and again threatened to kill herself. Cases of women undergoing post-partum depression are relatively common; post-partum psychosis of the sort Andrea Yates apparently suffered from is extremely rare.
She deferred to her husband on all matters: it was he who wanted a large family. She felt trapped in the home, exhausted through teaching and a low self-esteem:
The details that have been made public about the few months leading up to June 20 paint a picture of an increasingly desperate Andrea Yates, subject to psychotic episodes and severe depression, struggling to live up the ideal “Christian” lifestyle, trapped with her five young children twenty-four hours a day . And instead of seeking serious professional, psychiatric help, the couple could only call on more of the same, stultifying fundamentalist dogma.
If you believe Sheila guilty then the motive is probably the same for both:
It is possible that the couple hoped a fifth child would help Andrea through her mental difficulties. But the depression, despite her best efforts, persisted and deepened. Perhaps she concluded that her “bad” thoughts and behavior were contaminating her children. Psychologists have defined a mental state they term “altruistic filicide” (filicide means the murder of a child by a parent), which usually involves a mother killing her children because she believes she is doing the best thing for them, that they are literally better off dead.
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Withdrawal effects from Haloperidol was also responsible for the deaths of 5 children belonging to Andrea Yates when she drowned them all.
Weaning by degrees to a half dose is recommended,as is monitoring for effects as the process of a sudden reduction can cause violence in an already vulnerable and usually suicidal individual.
That guy who killed 87 people by running them over with a lorry then started shooting at the police who responded. Was on Haloperidol.
The guy who shot dead Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. Was on Haloperidol.
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That guy who killed 87 people by running them over with a lorry then started shooting at the police who responded. Was on Haloperidol.
The guy who shot dead Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. Was on Haloperidol.
Do you mean the Nice, France attack? I'm always wary of drugs where you end on a cocktail, one to counteract the other.
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Withdrawal effects from Haloperidol was also responsible for the deaths of 5 children belonging to Andrea Yates when she drowned them all.
Weaning by degrees to a half dose is recommended,as is monitoring for effects as the process of a sudden reduction can cause violence in an already vulnerable and usually suicidal individual.
Haloperidol was the only drug that worked for Andrea Yates, her doctor took her off this medication two weeks before she killed her children.
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,218445,00.html
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That guy who killed 87 people by running them over with a lorry then started shooting at the police who responded. Was on Haloperidol.
The guy who shot dead Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. Was on Haloperidol.
Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel was prescribed haldol in 2004, where does it state that he was still taking haldol when he killed 84 people?
Eddie Ray Routh openly admitted to not taking his medication, he said it made him feel that an f'ing zombie. No one knows if he was taking it when he killed Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield as he wasn't taking it intravenously and he was discharged from hospital.
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Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel was prescribed haldol in 2004, where does it state that he was still taking haldol when he killed 84 people?
Eddie Ray Routh openly admitted to not taking his medication, he said it made him feel that an f'ing zombie. No one knows if he was taking it when he killed Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield as he wasn't taking it intravenously and he was discharged from hospital.
The news article I read never mentioned any dates. :-\
Here is an interesting extract from - International Journal of Law and Psychiatry: A comparison of parricide and attempted parricide:
a study of 39 psychotic adults.
More than half of the patients had a history of alcohol consumption or drug use within 6
months before the assault. Additionally, 18% were intoxicated during the offense. In 24 cases
(62%), subjects had been prescribed psychotropic medication before the offense. Of those, 9
stopped taking the psychotropic medication and 11 took it irregularly (20/24, 83%). Of the 20
patients, 7 (35%) were under a professional’s care..
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Hi Adam
I did not realise only lookout thought the silencer was used. My mistake.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8255.0.html
Me & Lookout agree that no one fabricated the silencer.
However Lookout's suggestion that Sheila put on the silencer pre/mid massacre & then took it off & put it away has received no support. See above thread.
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The news article I read never mentioned any dates. :-\
Here is an interesting extract from - International Journal of Law and Psychiatry: A comparison of parricide and attempted parricide:
a study of 39 psychotic adults.
More than half of the patients had a history of alcohol consumption or drug use within 6
months before the assault. Additionally, 18% were intoxicated during the offense. In 24 cases
(62%), subjects had been prescribed psychotropic medication before the offense. Of those, 9
stopped taking the psychotropic medication and 11 took it irregularly (20/24, 83%). Of the 20
patients, 7 (35%) were under a professional’s care..
Interesting maybe, but none of it applies to Sheila.
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Until we see Sheila's medical notes,if ever,then we don't know what applies to her,or doesn't.
For instance,if she'd ever spoken of suicide to any of the doctors,because if so,she shouldn't have been receiving Haloperidol or any fluoxetine " type " medication because they exacerbate the urge to commit suicide.
"One size does not fit all" where dangerous medications are concerned.
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Until we see Sheila's medical notes,if ever,then we don't know what applies to her,or doesn't.
For instance,if she'd ever spoken of suicide to any of the doctors,because if so,she shouldn't have been receiving Haloperidol or any fluoxetine " type " medication because they exacerbate the urge to commit suicide.
"One size does not fit all" where dangerous medications are concerned.
Then don't generalise!
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Then don't generalise!
What are you talking about ? Dear God,here we go--------------------------
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What are you talking about ? Dear God,here we go--------------------------
Your post suggested that anyone who had previously had suicidal thoughts shouldn't take haloperidol because it exasperates such thoughts - it's a generalisation and although it has been a reported side effect that doesn't mean that everyone will experience it.
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Your post suggested that anyone who had previously had suicidal thoughts shouldn't take haloperidol because it exasperates such thoughts - it's a generalisation and although it has been a reported side effect that doesn't mean that everyone will experience it.
Like I said " one size doesn't fit all ",meaning it's not suitable for EVERYONE suffering the same symptoms. That ISN'T generalising.
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All the side effects listed in my sources in this thread would have effected Sheila's ability to do basic tasks. There were 60 of them.
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Until we see Sheila's medical notes,if ever,then we don't know what applies to her,or doesn't.
For instance,if she'd ever spoken of suicide to any of the doctors,because if so,she shouldn't have been receiving Haloperidol or any fluoxetine " type " medication because they exacerbate the urge to commit suicide.
"One size does not fit all" where dangerous medications are concerned.
But despite that we haven't -maybe never will- you're DETERMINED that they hold evidence which will render Jeremy innocent. If you're acknowledging that "One size does not fit all" when it comes to psychomeds, how come you shove down our throats, all these examples of mothers killing children then committing suicide?
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Interesting maybe, but none of it applies to Sheila.
How so?
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How so?
Sheila didn't have an alcohol problem, the drugs she had used (according to her psychiatrist) wouldn't affect haldoperidol and she was taking the drug regularly.
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Well that's good to know.
I can't understand all the stuff and nonsense that's written all over the internet on the dangers of smoking cannabis and taking Haloperidol. What a bunch of muppets some professionals are ::) I've been saying it all along that some medics don't know what they're doing.
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Well that's good to know.
I can't understand all the stuff and nonsense that's written all over the internet on the dangers of smoking cannabis and taking Haloperidol. What a bunch of muppets some professionals are ::) I've been saying it all along that some medics don't know what they're doing.
From your numerous posts, you come across as the number one proponent of how badly cannabis interacts with Haloperidol.
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From your numerous posts, you come across as the number one proponent of how badly cannabis interacts with Haloperidol.
Well it just goes to show,doesn't it ? I may as well go with the flow,it saves argument. Cannabis/cocaine obviously doesn't alter the effects of medication.Must jot that down.
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So what effect do these noxious substances have if you don't take Haloperidol ? Any ??
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Why is Haloperidol prescribed for a period and then the instructions are you stop?
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Sheila didn't have an alcohol problem, the drugs she had used (according to her psychiatrist) wouldn't affect haldoperidol and she was taking the drug regularly.
That doesn't answer the question.
How does none of this apply to Sheila?
More than half of the patients had a history of alcohol consumption or drug use within 6
months before the assault. Additionally, 18% were intoxicated during the offense. In 24 cases
(62%), subjects had been prescribed psychotropic medication before the offense. Of those, 9
stopped taking the psychotropic medication and 11 took it irregularly (20/24, 83%). Of the 20
patients, 7 (35%) were under a professional’s care.
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Well it just goes to show,doesn't it ? I may as well go with the flow,it saves argument. Cannabis/cocaine obviously doesn't alter the effects of medication.Must jot that down.
When ever I'm put on different meds, the doctor brings up my previous meds to make certain there won't be adverse reactions. NOTHING in life is 100% fail safe, but if we went with that, nothing would get done. No one would be prescribed, just in case. Whilst you may know those who have had unfortunate experiences, OR can give lists of those who have, from the media, it has to be remembered that the vast majority WILL be able to take -and thrive on- those meds you claim are dangerous.
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That doesn't answer the question.
How does none of this apply to Sheila?
More than half of the patients had a history of alcohol consumption or drug use within 6
months before the assault. Additionally, 18% were intoxicated during the offense. In 24 cases
(62%), subjects had been prescribed psychotropic medication before the offense. Of those, 9
stopped taking the psychotropic medication and 11 took it irregularly (20/24, 83%). Of the 20
patients, 7 (35%) were under a professional’s care.
The ONLY thing that fits in with ANY of the above is that Sheila smoked cannabis the rest is just you grasping at straws. Where have you taken that from anyway? You increasingly copy and paste stuff without providing a link to the source.
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The whole point was that Sheila wasn't receiving the after-care and support such as you'd get today when being discharged from a clinic/hospital which deals with mental health issues.
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The whole point was that Sheila wasn't receiving the after-care and support such as you'd get today when being discharged from a clinic/hospital which deals with mental health issues.
I guess the same could be said of many mental patients today. Interesting that her first hospital appointment since leaving St Andrews, would have been after her death, and more than 18 weeks since her discharge.
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The whole point was that Sheila wasn't receiving the after-care and support such as you'd get today when being discharged from a clinic/hospital which deals with mental health issues.
Perhaps not but there is no arguing against the fact that she was taking anti-psych meds.
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I guess the same could be said of many mental patients today. Interesting that her first hospital appointment since leaving St Andrews, would have been after her death, and more than 18 weeks since her discharge.
Her appointment sounded like an afterthought to me 18 weeks after discharge.
My friend's daughter was supervised as soon as she'd been discharged and put her into accommodation with " like-minded " patients so that it made visiting by professionals easier to monitor each of them.
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Her appointment sounded like an afterthought to me 18 weeks after discharge.
My friend's daughter was supervised as soon as she'd been discharged and put her into accommodation with " like-minded " patients so that it made visiting by professionals easier to monitor each of them.
We don't know if the recommendations of her psychiatrist weren't adhered to.
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Most of the 60 + side effects of Haloperidol relate to the person being drowsy & not having the physical or mental capacity to perform basic tasks. There is no reason why Sheila would be an exception.
Not surprisingly, the evidence from Sheila's best friend a week before the massacre, saying Sheila needed help getting off sofa's & AE saying Sheila could not put sugar in coffee show Sheila was suffering the side effects.
On the night, the WS's of Bamber & PB also show Sheila was 'unresponsive', 'not paying attention', drowsy, weak, 'not talking', tired & 'going to bed'. Which again shows she was suffering the side effects.
Obviously there is no possibility Sheila could have committed the massacre. However Bamber would be aware that Sheila would be easy to control later on.
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That guy who killed 87 people by running them over with a lorry then started shooting at the police who responded. Was on Haloperidol.
The guy who shot dead Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. Was on Haloperidol.
i wouldent bother with logic adams got define proof hes watched somthing on youtube.
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i wouldent bother with logic adams got define proof hes watched somthing on youtube.
It's beginning to look as if it isn't the entire story, though.
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i wouldent bother with logic adams got define proof hes watched somthing on youtube.
Nugs there are 60+ effects of Haloperidol posted in this thread. Which would stop Sheila doing basic physical and mental things.
These are from Youtube videos from people who have taken it & from internet articles.
Even Lookout does not believe the silencer was fabricated & no one believes RB shot himself.
Sheila could not commit the massacre. If you're going to continue being a conspiracy theorist & supporting Bamber, you will have to go along with Mike's theory that it was a hit man team.
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Nugs there are 60+ effects of Haloperidol posted in this thread. Which would stop Sheila doing basic physical and mental things.
These are from Youtube videos from people who have taken it & from internet articles.
Even Lookout does not believe the silencer was fabricated & no one believes RB shot himself.
Sheila could not commit the massacre. If you're going to continue being a conspiracy theorist & supporting Bamber, you will have to go along with Mike's theory that it was a hit man team.
and theres a long list of people who have comited murder while taking it and also acedmic paper on the subject.
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and theres a long list of people who have comited murder while taking it and also acedmic paper on the subject.
What long list?
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and theres a long list of people who have comited murder while taking it and also acedmic paper on the subject.
Nug's you couldn't explain how Sheila committed the massacre. And that was when I generously pretended Sheila could perform basic functions.
No one believes RB shot himself & there is a forensic evidence library which incriminates Bamber.
The 60 + side effects all prevent a user of Haloperidol from doing basic functions like walking.
If you're going to continue with a conspiracy theory, you must support Mike's theory that it was a hit man team, which makes Bamber innocent.
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and theres a long list of people who have comited murder while taking it and also acedmic paper on the subject.
I'll bet there's an even LONGER list of those who HAVEN'T committed murder whilst taking it.
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I'll bet there's an even LONGER list of those who HAVEN'T committed murder whilst taking it.
I haven't seen any examples of anyone being violent because of taking haloperidol. There are some who have had reactions while taking IT and other prescription drugs and also people who were prescribed it but stopped taking it. Perhaps nugs can find this list and back up his comment?
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I haven't seen any examples of anyone being violent because of taking haloperidol. There are some who have had reactions while taking IT and other prescription drugs and also people who were prescribed it but stopped taking it. Perhaps nugs can find this list and back up his comment?
Yeah, it would be good to compare, wouldn't it?
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Yeah, it would be good to compare, wouldn't it?
Well, I think if you make these kind of claims, you should back them up - especially when you're keen on calling other people liars!
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Well, I think if you make these kind of claims, you should back them up - especially when you're keen on calling other people liars!
Without a shadow of doubt, Caroline.
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Insanity and Filicide: Women Who Murder Their Children. American Journal of psychiatry. Published in 1996.
Her complaints during her prior hospitalizations included command hallucinations
(which told her to kill herself), depression, agitation, and paranoid
delusional ideation. She was being followed by Community Mental Health and
was taking antipsychotic medication at the time of the murder.
The defendant was evaluated on the issue of legal insanity approximately
five months after the murder. At this time, she described the voices as suggesting
that she kill her daughter and indicating that her daughter would be
better off and happier dead.
Antipsychotic Drugs and their Side-Effects - Department of Psychiatry,
Charing Cross and Westminster Medical School, London. Published 1993
"Haloperidol decanoate should be given every 4 weeks. Dosage requirements
vary widely."
In a prospective inpatient study, the safety of
clozapine and haloperidol were assessed weekly for
the first 18 weeks of treatment, followed by monthly
monitoring. The rate of hepatic enzyme elevation
(alkaline phosphatase [ALP], alanine transaminase
[ALT], aspartate aminotransferase [AST], gammaglutamyl
transpeptidase [GGT]) of greater than or
equal to twice the ULN was higher with clozapine
(37%) compared with haloperidol (17%). Most elevations
were observed within the first 6 weeks of treatment;
over 60% returned to normal within 13 weeks of
continued treatment
-
Haloperidol is neither a paralytic or anesthetic drug.
-
Insanity and Filicide: Women Who Murder Their Children. American Journal of psychiatry. Published in 1996.
Her complaints during her prior hospitalizations included command hallucinations
(which told her to kill herself), depression, agitation, and paranoid
delusional ideation. She was being followed by Community Mental Health and
was taking antipsychotic medication at the time of the murder.
The defendant was evaluated on the issue of legal insanity approximately
five months after the murder. At this time, she described the voices as suggesting
that she kill her daughter and indicating that her daughter would be
better off and happier dead.
Antipsychotic Drugs and their Side-Effects - Department of Psychiatry,
Charing Cross and Westminster Medical School, London. Published 1993
"Haloperidol decanoate should be given every 4 weeks. Dosage requirements
vary widely."
In a prospective inpatient study, the safety of
clozapine and haloperidol were assessed weekly for
the first 18 weeks of treatment, followed by monthly
monitoring. The rate of hepatic enzyme elevation
(alkaline phosphatase [ALP], alanine transaminase
[ALT], aspartate aminotransferase [AST], gammaglutamyl
transpeptidase [GGT]) of greater than or
equal to twice the ULN was higher with clozapine
(37%) compared with haloperidol (17%). Most elevations
were observed within the first 6 weeks of treatment;
over 60% returned to normal within 13 weeks of
continued treatment
And?
-
Haloperidol is neither a paralytic or anesthetic drug.
No, it's an antipsychotic drug.
-
:o
-
:o
::)
So a small -a VERY small- group was used for this study. All it tells us is what we already know. That however effective a drug may be, there will always be those it doesn't suit. However, it doesn't look at the variables -and they could be limitless- of WHY the drug didn't suit. If A particular drug proved to have such injurious qualities to everyone who took it, I imagine it would be withdrawn.
NB. Sheila hadn't complained of having violent thoughts whilst taking Haloperidol. Only PRIOR to taking it and PRIOR to her first breakdown in 1983. The lethargy she complained of would seem to have precluded any thoughts which required energy in putting them into practice -and that included personal care. Even after it was reduced she was said to have been over sedated.
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Too late when the drug's withdrawn.Didn't someone mention that it " remains in the system for WEEKS ?"
Sheila WOULDN'T have told anyone about having violent thoughts,she acted them out instead !!
Whoever heard of those with mental health issues shouting or even saying that they had violent thoughts ? Not many !
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Too late when the drug's withdrawn.Didn't someone mention that it " remains in the system for WEEKS ?"
Sheila WOULDN'T have told anyone about having violent thoughts,she acted them out instead !!
Whoever heard of those with mental health issues shouting or even saying that they had violent thoughts ? Not many !
Actually Lookout, I believe YOU have quoted stories of how patients have reported, to police and hospitals, about violent thought patterns prior to acting them out. You can't have it both ways. As I've said, I don't believe Sheila had the energy to think violent thoughts, let alone act on them.
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Have locked this thread while I remove the offending posts.
Let's get back to debating the subject and leave the who said what and when in the past where it belongs.
Cheers. :)
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86. On 3 March 1985 Sheila Caffell was re-admitted to hospital in Northampton. Then she was agitated, very disturbed and in an anxious state.
Her thinking was again very involved with the concepts of good and evil, but on this occasion more directly related to excessive religious ideas.
She made no reference to any thoughts concerning her children or parents. As before she responded to treatment and was discharged on 29 March 1985.
87. Thereafter Sheila Caffell received monthly injections of Haloperidol, a drug used to treat agitated states which had anti-psychotic and tranquillising properties. It also has sedative side effects at the levels prescribed.
---------------------
Must admit I can't see how Haloperidol would have put Sheila into a rage.
It has - 'tranqillising', sedative & anti psychotic properties. And is used to treat 'agitated states'.
Even if she did get into bad mood at 2am, the other 60+ side effects of Haloperidol would have totally negated her mental & physical co ordination.
-
Then again, Julie did identify the twins.
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In CC's book,Heather had offered to see the twins on Colin's behalf,but was halted from doing so by SJ.
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In CC's book,Heather had offered to see the twins on Colin's behalf,but was halted from doing so by SJ.
How do you believe Sheila got so angry and SAS style efficient at 2am ?
The 2002 appeal says Haloperidol is a drug -
Used to treat agitated states
Was an anti psychotic drug
Had tranquillising properties.
Had sedative effects.
--------------
It also prevents basic mind and body functioning with over 60 side effects.
Just seems doubtful she would wake even if Nevill spent 10 minutes trying.
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Insanity and Filicide: Women Who Murder Their Children. American Journal of psychiatry. Published in 1996.
"Her complaints during her prior hospitalizations included command hallucinations
(which told her to kill herself), depression, agitation, and paranoid
delusional ideation. She was being followed by Community Mental Health and
was taking antipsychotic medication at the time of the murder.
The defendant was evaluated on the issue of legal insanity approximately
five months after the murder. At this time, she described the voices as suggesting
that she kill her daughter and indicating that her daughter would be
better off and happier dead."
-
It isn't the drugs that made shiela kill her family it was her mental illness.
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It isn't the drugs that made shiela kill her family it was her mental illness.
Hello notsure I agree Sheila had mental health issues and was not responsible for her actions. Poor Sheila
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Sedative effects is bad enough. Tranquillising effects seems much more serious.
With Michael Horsnell, PB & Bamber's evidence on the day, Sheila going to bed at 10pm & being found barefooted in her nightie with no evidence of a 3am struggle, it's becoming more probable Sheila didn't wake up at all prior to Bamber's shots.
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Adam you can't keep using the drugs shiela was taking as an excuse for her being unable to kill everyone. She was imo under pes cried at that time. Doctor prescribed 150mg but she only recieved 100mg the last time.
Shiela was mentally ill and this is what made her do it.
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Adam you can't keep using the drugs shiela was taking as an excuse for her being unable to kill everyone. She was imo under pes cried at that time. Doctor prescribed 150mg but she only recieved 100mg the last time.
Shiela was mentally ill and this is what made her do it.
Well I do mention lots of other things. Today asking how Sheila managed to change and wash off gun shot residue after killing herself.
With Haloperidol at 2am Sheila would not have been asleep. She would have been knocked out from the sedative & tranquillising effects.
If somehow she did beat science and wake, she would have no co ordination due to the 60+ effects of Haloperidol.
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I appreciate some posters believe Bamber is innocent because Julie identified the twins.
However forensic evidence such as Sheila being on Haloperidol & today's thread on Sheila changing & washing off gun shot residue after killing herself, is what influences the courts.
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You need to understand why those with mental health issues have the urge to kill and until you can get into their heads ( Ferguson couldn't ) then you've got no chance in understanding why. But it happens.
Heather was stopped by Jones from identifying the twins. Colin couldn't stand the man !
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What has Julie's identification of the twins got to do with JB's innocence ??
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Insanity and Filicide: Women Who Murder Their Children. American Journal of psychiatry. Published in 1996.
"Her complaints during her prior hospitalizations included command hallucinations
(which told her to kill herself), depression, agitation, and paranoid
delusional ideation. She was being followed by Community Mental Health and
was taking antipsychotic medication at the time of the murder.
The defendant was evaluated on the issue of legal insanity approximately
five months after the murder. At this time, she described the voices as suggesting
that she kill her daughter and indicating that her daughter would be
better off and happier dead."
This would suggest that Sheila had just received her monthly injection, not that she was due one.
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What has Julie's identification of the twins got to do with JB's innocence ??
Susan & JackieD says Julie identifying the twins makes Bamber innocent.
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Susan & JackieD says Julie identifying the twins makes Bamber innocent.
Adam excuse me I said nothing of the sort
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Adam excuse me I said nothing of the sort
"Hi lookout it seems to me when Julie identified the twins she did not know her boyfriend had killed them I don't believe for one moment she would have gone along with him knowing he was responsible for the murders she was an intelligent woman studying for a degree to teach children she would not have taken a month to go to the police".
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Adam excuse me I said nothing of the sort
"Jackie when she identified the wee boys she thought Sheila had murdered her family then herself".
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Susan & JackieD says Julie identifying the twins makes Bamber innocent.
no they didn't, they just said she shouldn't have been the one to do it and they couldn't understand why she would offer to do it
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Anyway this thread is about Haloperidol.
I didn't know it also has tranquillising effects. Mind you that does match somewhat other people on Youtube saying Haloperidol completely 'zonks them out'.
This together with the other strong pasifying effects & it being 2am anyway, means it's very unlikely Sheila woke & certainly put up no fight.
It seems I was right. Bamber did carry Sheila a few feet to her death.
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no they didn't, they just said she shouldn't have been the one to do it and they couldn't understand why she would offer to do it
"As the post above you know Mugford would never in a million years offer to identify the bodies if she knew for definate her boyfriend was responsible for the dead bodies
And FACT MUGFORD was not the only person who could identify the twins
I have checked with my friend who is a high ranking policeman who said the police would have sent a car to pick up the appropriate person".
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You don't strike me as having a high-ranking police friend.
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You don't strike me as having a high-ranking police friend.
Alas I don't have JackieD's contacts. That was someone else's post I copied.
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Anyway this thread is about Haloperidol.
I didn't know it also has tranquillising effects. Mind you that does match somewhat other people on Youtube saying Haloperidol completely 'zonks them out'.
This together with the other strong pasifying effects & it being 2am anyway, means it's very unlikely Sheila woke & certainly put up no fight.
It seems I was right. Bamber did carry Sheila a few feet to her death.
It is sooo tiring to have to keep repeating this but most drugs have many side effects however some people don't suffer any side effects some get one or two and some are more unlucky and suffer quite badly. We have no real proof apart from conflicting statements as to whether Sheila was actually suffering from any side effects at the time of the murders. There are drugs to counter act side effects of Haloperidol but Sheila had no such drugs in her system which make me wonder if she had any particular side effects at that times.
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It is sooo tiring to have to keep repeating this but most drugs have many side effects however some people don't suffer any side effects some get one or two and some are more unlucky and suffer quite badly. We have no real proof apart from conflicting statements as to whether Sheila was actually suffering from any side effects at the time of the murders. There are drugs to counter act side effects of Haloperidol but Sheila had no such drugs in her system which make me wonder if she had any particular side effects at that times.
Point refuted a thousand times.
"These are questions that have been done to death, and there is nothing new you're likely to learn by questioning them further. Unless your motivation is emotional or ideological, it's time to recognize there's nothing to be gained from continuing to go over our most-trodden ground."
A point refuted a thousand times, commonly abbreviated as PRATT, refers to a point or argument that has literally been refuted so many times that it is not worth bothering with.
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It is sooo tiring to have to keep repeating this but most drugs have many side effects however some people don't suffer any side effects some get one or two and some are more unlucky and suffer quite badly. We have no real proof apart from conflicting statements as to whether Sheila was actually suffering from any side effects at the time of the murders. There are drugs to counter act side effects of Haloperidol but Sheila had no such drugs in her system which make me wonder if she had any particular side effects at that times.
Maggie I am glad you have clarified that because I know as an ex Nurse you know all about these drugs and it is good to have the effects of them explained to people like me and Adam. Thank you fair lady :)
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Maggie I am glad you have clarified that because I know as an ex Nurse you know all about these drugs and it is good to have the effects of them explained to people like me and Adam. Thank you fair lady :)
Maggie hasn't clarified anything unfortunately.
The evidence from Bamber, Michael Horsnell & PB is that Sheila was wiped out by the end of the day. Supporters grasp at the fact she visited Bamber on his tractor hours earlier & smiled at Leonard Foakes.
The forensic evidence is Sheila was on the extremley powerful drug Haloperidol & did not appear to put up any struggle prior to being shot.
The tranquillising effect of the drug had kicked in & besides which it was bed time.
The evidence on Haloperidol's 60+ effects is in this thread.
It's looking more & more that I was right.
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Maggie hasn't clarified anything unfortunately.
The evidence from Bamber, Michael Horsnell & PB is that Sheila was wiped out by the end of the day. Supporters grasp at the fact she visited Bamber on his tractor hours earlier & smiled at Leonard Foakes.
The forensic evidence is Sheila was on the extremley powerful drug Haloperidol & did not appear to put up any struggle prior to being shot. The tranquillising effect of the drug had kicked in.
The evidence on Haloperidol 60+ effects is in this thread.
It's looking more & more that I was right.
Adam maybe you are right all along
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Adam maybe you are right all along
Sheila was certainly shot by someone else. As my thread today shows.
She could not change & remove blood, oil & gun shot residue with specialist cleaning equipment after she had killed herself.
The evidence shows she put up no struggle with Bamber.
Sadly Sheila was easy prey for him.
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Unless you've worked with medication,then you aren't right,Adam. ALL medication has side-effects,some people suffer more than others.If you've ever read all the debacles about Statins you should know that they have life-saving properties as well as giving some people horrendous side-effects.
Certain medications don't suit everyone,even if they're meant as a cure. Everyone is different.
Sheila had suffered adverse effects from the medication she was taking.
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Maggie hasn't clarified anything unfortunately.
The evidence from Bamber, Michael Horsnell & PB is that Sheila was wiped out by the end of the day. Supporters grasp at the fact she visited Bamber on his tractor hours earlier & smiled at Leonard Foakes.
The forensic evidence is Sheila was on the extremley powerful drug Haloperidol & did not appear to put up any struggle prior to being shot.
The tranquillising effect of the drug had kicked in & besides which it was bed time.
The evidence on Haloperidol's 60+ effects is in this thread.
It's looking more & more that I was right.
It's looking more and more like you are making this up as you go along. You are wrong about her experiencing 60+ side effects that is a ridiculous claim.
PB made no mention about Sheila's walking etc. she said that June wanted to discuss Sheila's behaviour with her the next day as she was worried about Sheila's lack of interest in anything
JB said that she didn't speak or join in the conversation but that doesn't prove anything except for some reason she had nothing to say, didn't want to get involved, was in a world of her own. (Interestingly, you believe JB was the murderer but you're quite happy to use his evidence to prove your point.)
Len Foalkes said she was in Pages Lane with the boys and made no comment about her walking strangely, only Michael Horsnell was quoted in a book as commenting on her strange gait and walking like a zombie.
I only mentioned about where Sheila was seen that afternoon because you made a wild claim that she could only walk 5 steps which is a ridiculous off the cuff, throw away remark to prove a point and actually proves nothing.
I find it interesting that you have made no comment as to why, if Sheila suffered from 60+ side effects she wasn't taking any meds to counteract such a horrendous reaction to Haloperidol. You have no understanding about drugs, side effects and counter action.
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It's looking more and more like you are making this up as you go along. You are wrong about her experiencing 60+ side effects that is a ridiculous claim.
PB made no mention about Sheila's walking etc. she said that June wanted to discuss Sheila's behaviour with her the next day as she was worried about Sheila's lack of interest in anything
JB said that she didn't speak or join in the conversation but that doesn't prove anything except for some reason she had nothing to say, didn't want to get involved, was in a world of her own. (Interestingly, you believe JB was the murderer but you're quite happy to use his evidence to prove your point.)
Len Foalkes said she was in Pages Lane with the boys and made no comment about her walking strangely, only Michael Horsnell was quoted in a book as commenting on her strange gait and walking like a zombie.
I only mentioned about where Sheila was seen that afternoon because you made a wild claim that she could only walk 5 steps which is a ridiculous off the cuff, throw away remark to prove a point and actually proves nothing.
I find it interesting that you have made no comment as to why, if Sheila suffered from 60+ side effects she wasn't taking any meds to counteract such a horrendous reaction to Haloperidol. You have no understanding about drugs, side effects and counter action.
Maybe she hadn't packed the medication. She was a scatty character anyway, probably with no sense of time, which is part of the reason why she failed to hold down so many jobs. Barbara Wilson also noticed Sheila's gait, walking through a gaggle of geese as if they weren't there.
Part of the symptoms of schizophrenia is not being able to distinguish fantasy from reality, which is why some end up believing voices in their head instructing them to end it all. Sheila was disoriented, she was confused, which is why she spoke no words on the trip down to the White House and why this pattern of behaviour was duplicated on the telephone with Auntie Pam, not that she felt any particular malice at that point to any of the individuals concerned.
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It's looking more and more like you are making this up as you go along. You are wrong about her experiencing 60+ side effects that is a ridiculous claim.
PB made no mention about Sheila's walking etc. she said that June wanted to discuss Sheila's behaviour with her the next day as she was worried about Sheila's lack of interest in anything
JB said that she didn't speak or join in the conversation but that doesn't prove anything except for some reason she had nothing to say, didn't want to get involved, was in a world of her own. (Interestingly, you believe JB was the murderer but you're quite happy to use his evidence to prove your point.)
Len Foalkes said she was in Pages Lane with the boys and made no comment about her walking strangely, only Michael Horsnell was quoted in a book as commenting on her strange gait and walking like a zombie.
I only mentioned about where Sheila was seen that afternoon because you made a wild claim that she could only walk 5 steps which is a ridiculous off the cuff, throw away remark to prove a point and actually proves nothing.
I find it interesting that you have made no comment as to why, if Sheila suffered from 60+ side effects she wasn't taking any meds to counteract such a horrendous reaction to Haloperidol. You have no understanding about drugs, side effects and counter action.
I didn't say Sheila was sufferring from the 60+ side effects. Suspect she was sufferring from 20 - 30.
Michael Horsnell commented on her walking & co ordination on the day. She didn't have any. PB & Bamber on her being unresponsive.
Sheila would be uncordinated & sedated from the tranquillising effects of Haloperidol.
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No one has today disputed that Sheila was not able to get special cleaning products then shower & change, after she had died.
No one has disputed that Sheila did not put up no fight for life.
Yet people refuse to accept Haloperidol had effected her.
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Maybe she hadn't packed the medication. She was a scatty character anyway, probably with no sense of time, which is part of the reason why she failed to hold down so many jobs. Barbara Wilson also noticed Sheila's gait, walking through a gaggle of geese as if they weren't there.
Part of the symptoms of schizophrenia is not being able to distinguish fantasy from reality, which is why some end up believing voices in their head instructing them to end it all. Sheila was disoriented, she was confused, which is why she spoke no words on the trip down to the White House and why this pattern of behaviour was duplicated on the telephone with Auntie Pam, not that she felt any particular malice at that point to any of the individuals concerned.
She may have forgotten to pack such important medication Steve but even if she did she had only been away from home a couple of days, I am sure there would still be traces of such medication in her system.
Sheila was highly aware of her appearance, no one can argue with that. I am sure the last way she would want to be seen was 'walking like zombie', gurning and muscle twitches to her face etc. Those side effects are horrible and so demeaning and embarrassing for anyone, never mind a former model, celebrated for her beauty to have to suffer.
I am absolutely positive Sheila would have done anything possible to hide such ugly physical symptoms ... but no meds?? strange imo.
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You'd have to be crazy to walk through a gaggle of geese,they're as good as having guard dogs----no kidding ! They can go for you. Certainly not for the timid.
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You'd have to be crazy to walk through a gaggle of geese,they're as good as having guard dogs----no kidding ! They can go for you. Certainly not for the timid.
(http://imgur.com/6sPO7RF.gif)
XD
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You'd have to be crazy to walk through a gaggle of geese,they're as good as having guard dogs----no kidding ! They can go for you. Certainly not for the timid.
Very true Lookout we used to have a flock of geese in a local park. They were terrifying they pecked at you and chased you. I kept well away from them.