Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on October 16, 2016, 09:49:AM
-
June was at WHF.
June was an adult.
June was able bodied and just as strong as Sheila.
An awake June is safer than an asleep June.
An awake June makes Neville safer.
An awake June makes the twins safer.
June had as much chance of claming Sheila down as Bamber would have.
Asking June for assistance means Neville would not have to go downstairs and spend several minutes waiting for Bamber to answer the phone.
Asking June for assistance means Neville would not have to spend several minutes asking the police for assistance.
June would be likely to wake anyway after hearing all the noise. Although in this case she surprisingly remained asleep and was shot with her head on the pillow.
An awake June could have protected the twins.
June was Sheila's mother. She would want to assist her daughter if she was in distress.
Neville did not need Bamber for physical assistance. He was twice as big as her and June was as big as Sheila.
Asking June for assistance means he is not going to put his son in danger.
WHF was as much June's house, as Neville's. As Sheila's mother she had a right to know what was happening and decide to attempt to assist.
June was Neville's first option. If that failed he could then decide to ring up other people.
June may refuse to assist (which is unlikely). However June can at least protect herself and be ready for any attack. Rather than be defenceless.
There is no reason not to ask June for assistance.
-
I suppose the question could also be is there a reason why Neville would not ask June for assistance ?
I can't think of one. However Neville made the decision not to ask for her assistance. Preferring to ring Bamber and then the police 16 minutes later.
It was the wrong choice by Neville. June surprisingly did not wake from all the noise and put up no defence as Sheila shot June in the throat and head while she slept.
-
It is really a double problem for Bamber regarding June.
Neville had lots of chances to wake her and ask for assistance. But didn't. Preferring to ring Bamber and then the police.
If that was unlikely, then it's just as unlikely that June would sleep through Sheila going so crazy Neville woke and decided to make two phone calls.
Despite the two huge unlikely occurances, June was undisturbed and asleep prior to being shot with her head on the pillow.
The jury will deliberate these two almost impossible to understand occurances.
-
Must admit if I was in Neville's situation at 3am, I would just ask my wife/Sheila"s mother for assistance.
I'm sure 100% of other people would automatically do the same. Rather than ring another asleep relative 3 miles away.
-
Another reason for Neville to ask June for assistance, is that it gives Neville more control of the situation. He will know what June is or is not doing and can react accordingly to control things.
Neville would have no idea what Bamber would do after saying just 11 words to him, and not waiting for a reply.
As it happened Bamber did nothing for 26 minutes and didn't step inside WHF for days. Although three of Nevilles 11 words were 'please come over'.
-
It is really a double problem for Bamber regarding June.
Neville had lots of chances to wake her and ask for assistance. But didn't. Preferring to ring Bamber and then the police.
If that was unlikely, then it's just as unlikely that June would sleep through Sheila going so crazy Neville woke and decided to make two phone calls.
Despite the two huge unlikely occurances, June was undisturbed and asleep prior to being shot with her head on the pillow.
The jury will deliberate these two almost impossible to understand occurances.
Since Nevill did seem to leave the running of the household within to June and tended the Farm without I agree that in a crisis he would have turned to his wife and not telephoned the black sheep of the family.
-
Reasons why Neville would not ask June for help
A) June was in bed awake but too afraid to get out
B) June was already shot dead
Rather simple ::)
-
Reasons why Neville would not ask June for help
A) June was in bed awake but too afraid to get out
B) June was already shot dead
Rather simple ::)
Yes June would be scared of a discordinated woman sufferring from Tardrive Dyskinsia holding a rifle for shooting vermin. Thought she would move or protect the twins if she was scared. Anyway she was asleep when shot with her head on the pillow. Amazingly not waking from the noise or being woken by Neville.
So Neville rang Bamber after June had been shot dead. A bit late to ring someone 'sleeping like a log' who is 3 miles away. Sheila had started killing people. Was Sheila reloading while Neville was phoning Bamber ?
-
Since Nevill did seem to leave the running of the household within to June and tended the Farm without I agree that in a crisis he would have turned to his wife and not telephoned the black sheep of the family.
Yes, 100% of people would get any other adult in the house for assistance. In the unlikely event that you're daughter has gone crazy with a rifle. In this case it was Neville's wife/Sheila's mother.
Or the other person would wake and offer assistance.
No one would consider ringing an unreliable relative 3 miles away at 3am.
-
The CT have never said why Neville didn't ask for assistance from June. Or why June didn't wake and offer assistance. Which is surprising as it would assist them in promoting the idea that Neville rang Bamber and then Chelmsford police instead.
Maybe they cannot think of a valid reason.
-
Thought she would move or protect the twins if she was scared.
Source? ::)
-
Reason for NOT asking June for help :
Because she'd been attending her GP for weeks leading right up to the tragedy and Neville had been devoting more of his time,help and support towards his wife.
We've not known the nature of June's illness.
-
Yes June would be scared of a discordinated woman sufferring from Tardrive Dyskinsia holding a rifle for shooting vermin. Thought she would move or protect the twins if she was scared. Anyway she was asleep when shot with her head on the pillow. Amazingly not waking from the noise or being woken by Neville.
So Neville rang Bamber after June had been shot dead. A bit late to ring someone 'sleeping like a log' who is 3 miles away. Sheila had started killing people. Was Sheila reloading while Neville was phoning Bamber ?
Since you have previously accepted the twins were first to go this contradicts your above post.
It's rather ironic that you believe the twins were first to go and that nevilles burn marks were made with the barrel of the gun. Both these point to Shelia being the killer.
-
Since you have previously accepted the twins were first to go this contradicts your above post.
It's rather ironic that you believe the twins were first to go and that nevilles burn marks were made with the barrel of the gun. Both these point to Shelia being the killer.
Well I agreed that Bamber may have shot one bullet each into the twins, before entering the main bedroom. As he would still have enough bullets left to kill a sleeping Neville and June. However I don't agree with Buddy that the evidence shows the twins were shot first.
This thread is about why Neville called Bamber and the 5th furthest away police station. Rather than ask June for assistance, or why June didn't wake and offer assistance. You have said it is because Sheila had already killed June. You have also previously said the twins were shot first.
Do you believe Sheila was reloading when Neville called Bamber after she had killed June and the twins ?
-
If you've read the latest on mental health,you'll see that there have been 10+ murders committed by people with mental health issues.It DOESN'T have to be schizophrenics who commit murder,rather those who weren't listened to when speaking of suicide-----------such as Sheila.
-
If you've read the latest on mental health,you'll see that there have been 10+ murders committed by people with mental health issues.It DOESN'T have to be schizophrenics who commit murder,rather those who weren't listened to when speaking of suicide-----------such as Sheila.
How many murders have been committed by people without mental health issues?
-
How many murders have been committed by people without mental health issues?
ALL those who commit murders have got mental health issues,or they wouldn't carry them out.
My argument is that most of those who have been diagnosed are NOT taken seriously if they mention suicide/killing to their GP/Psychiatrist/Carer/Mental Health Worker/Guardian.
-
How many murders have been committed by people without mental health issues?
A few.
http://ncmh.info/blog/2013/10/07/95-murders-committed-mental-patients/ (http://ncmh.info/blog/2013/10/07/95-murders-committed-mental-patients/)
&
https://www.theguardian.com/society/reality-check/2013/oct/07/sun-people-killed-mental-health-true
(https://www.theguardian.com/society/reality-check/2013/oct/07/sun-people-killed-mental-health-true)
-
And the rates of suicide are fast increasing even since 2013.
Have we come any further on since 1985 ? NO,it's got worse,so why is that do you think ?
-
And the rates of suicide are fast increasing even since 2013.
Have we come any further on since 1985 ? NO,it's got worse,so why is that do you think ?
Because there is an extra half a billion people here on earth to do it, since 2013?
-
Because there is an extract half a billion people here earth to do it, since 2013?
What ?
-
What ?
It could be one explanation why suicide has gone up, if there are more people on earth the chances are figures will go up, i am not being horrible and I don't like suicide but, statistic wise it could be a reason?
-
It could be one explanation why suicide has gone up, if there are more people on earth the chances are figures will go up, i am not being horrible and I don't like suicide but, statistic wise it could be a reason?
I'm talking about this country !
-
I'm talking about this country !
The population has increased in this country.
-
The population has increased in this country.
Along with the suicide statistics.
-
Along with the suicide statistics.
Statistically, statistics rise comparably.
-
Statistically, statistics rise comparably.
Nothing like sounding complacent is there,or is that pedantic ?
-
Nothing like sounding complacent is there,or is that pedantic ?
No, Just factual.
-
ALL those who commit murders have got mental health issues,or they wouldn't carry them out.
My argument is that most of those who have been diagnosed are NOT taken seriously if they mention suicide/killing to their GP/Psychiatrist/Carer/Mental Health Worker/Guardian.
That simply isn't true
-
Along with the suicide statistics.
Which was what Justice was saying.
-
That simply isn't true
In neuroscience,brains of those who murdered showed a marked difference from the norm when given a P E T scan . The scan highlighted a significant reduction in the development of the prefrontal cortex.In other words,anyone who murders has a deficiency which is usually marked by behavioural problems,less control of anger and rage, reduction in self-control,poor problem-solving skills---which all predispose a person to eventual violence.
-
In neuroscience,brains of those who murdered showed a marked difference from the norm when given a P E T scan . The scan highlighted a significant reduction in the development of the prefrontal cortex.In other words,anyone who murders has a deficiency which is usually marked by behavioural problems,less control of anger and rage, reduction in self-control,poor problem-solving skills---which all predispose a person to eventual violence.
You're drawing a generalisation that was never meant to be there. Not all killers have a mental health disorder and not all people with a mental disorder are killers. Here is an interesting article though.
http://highered.mheducation.com/olc2/dl/926250/fei35201_ch15_586_627.pdf
-
Tell me what it is that holds back the " normal " person from killing.
-
Tell me what it is that holds back the " normal " person from killing.
Well, there are different kinds of killers and a normal person is just as capable of killing as an abnormal person. Self defence for instance.
-
Tell me what it is that holds back the " normal " person from killing.
Is it not said that we all have a breaking point?
-
Well, there are different kinds of killers and a normal person is just as capable of killing as an abnormal person. Self defence for instance.
I,personally would find it extremely difficult to kill someone,even in self-defence,so I don't know why my own brain functions that way. I'd put up a fight because a coward I'm not,but so far as the thought of killing,I couldn't do it.
However,those in the forces have to kill,but the effects of their self-defence lasts a lifetime and duly affects their brains in a different way from the cold-blooded killers.
-
I,personally would find it extremely difficult to kill someone,even in self-defence,so I don't know why my own brain functions that way. I'd put up a fight because a coward I'm not,but so far as the thought of killing,I couldn't do it.
However,those in the forces have to kill,but the effects of their self-defence lasts a lifetime and duly affects their brains in a different way from the cold-blooded killers.
Well, this isn't about you -or any of us- but I'll hazard a guess that SOMEONE reading this could find themselves capable of murder and as you're SO certain of your ability and determination to defend yourself, it could well be you, despite what you say to the contrary.
I suspect that much PTSD has it's roots in that those in the forces who suffer this life changing disorder -and not ALL do- are trained to kill and that training kicks in and overrides natural aversion to taking life. I appreciate that this is an over simplification of a complex disorder.
-
Well, this isn't about you -or any of us- but I'll hazard a guess that SOMEONE reading this could find themselves capable of murder and as you're SO certain of your ability and determination to defend yourself, it could well be you, despite what you say to the contrary.
I suspect that much PTSD has it's roots in that those in the forces who suffer this life changing disorder -and not ALL do- are trained to kill and that training kicks in and overrides natural aversion to taking life. I appreciate that this is an over simplification of a complex disorder.
I'm fully aware that it's not about me,but nevertheless there's no need for such an insidious statement you've made !
-
Do other people believe June was already dead when Neville rang Bamber and/or the police ? This has been suggested on this thread.
-
I'm fully aware that it's not about me,but nevertheless there's no need for such an insidious statement you've made !
Having reread my statement, I find nothing, whatsoever, about it which could be termed "insidious". In fact, it was direct and to the point. Numerous times -and generally when Jeremy's behaviours are the topic- people's responses are about how THEY would/wouldn't have acted. It seems we're being asked to deduce that because "I" would/wouldn't, neither would/wouldn't Jeremy? It's very misleading.
-
Blimey,you've started already ::)
-
I,personally would find it extremely difficult to kill someone,even in self-defence,so I don't know why my own brain functions that way. I'd put up a fight because a coward I'm not,but so far as the thought of killing,I couldn't do it.
However,those in the forces have to kill,but the effects of their self-defence lasts a lifetime and duly affects their brains in a different way from the cold-blooded killers.
I don't like killing anything and although I have pretty bad arachnophobia, I still catch spiders and put them outside. However, in a case of self defence I have no doubt that if it came to a case of them or me - I would make damn sure it was them.
Not all ex forces end up with PTSD or end up killing face to face on the ground.
-
Do other people believe June was already dead when Neville rang Bamber and/or the police ? This has been suggested on this thread.
Nevill never got to a phone that morning.
-
Nevill never got to a phone that morning.
Hopefully David will explain why Neville chose to phone Bamber, and then the police 16 minutes later, after Sheila had killed June.
-
Nevill never got to a phone that morning.
Well he made a good job of getting from the bedroom down 3 flights of stairs to the kitchen, when badly injured,so he would have been heading towards the phone,though why he hadn't stayed upstairs shielding his family,I'll never know,so what else would have been the purpose of leaving them all ?
-
Well he made a good job of getting from the bedroom down 3 flights of stairs to the kitchen, when badly injured,so he would have been heading towards the phone,though why he hadn't stayed upstairs shielding his family,I'll never know,so what else would have been the purpose of leaving them all ?
Single flight of stairs, it's only a two storey dwelling.
-
Single flight of stairs, it's only a two storey dwelling.
From start to finish all I've read about are 3 flights of stairs ? Where did that come from ?
-
From start to finish all I've read about are 3 flights of stairs ? Where did that come from ?
There were/are three staircases, but not three flights.
-
From start to finish all I've read about are 3 flights of stairs ? Where did that come from ?
There are three staircases in the property one in the hall, one leading from the kitchen and one near the Den/office. Each leads from the ground floor to different locations on the first floor.
-
It seems no one has supported Davids theory that Nevile decided to ring Bamber and then the police 16 minutes later, after June had been killed. And David has not elaborated.
-
It seems no one has supported Davids theory that Nevile decided to ring Bamber and then the police 16 minutes later, after June had been killed. And David has not elaborated.
To be fair, I think David elaborates enough for all of us. :-\
-
Well he made a good job of getting from the bedroom down 3 flights of stairs to the kitchen, when badly injured,so he would have been heading towards the phone,though why he hadn't stayed upstairs shielding his family,I'll never know,so what else would have been the purpose of leaving them all ?
Was the kitchen phone the nearest phone available? He may have left a trace of his presence with the bloodied fingermarks on the blue and white chequered worktop, but was there any other exit available?
-
There are three staircases in the property one in the hall, one leading from the kitchen and one near the Den/office. Each leads from the ground floor to different locations on the first floor.
Oh I see.
-
Oh I see.
The floor plans are in the archives if you wanted to familiarise yourself with the layout. They're in Alias's photograph thread.
-
To be fair, I think David elaborates enough for all of us. :-\
I believe Neville would have confronted Sheila during or after the kiing of June. And then rang for an ambulance. Or tried to save June from dying.
Not let Sheila shoot the twins and chamber/reload while he rings Bamber and then the police 16 minutes later.
-
The floor plans are in the archives if you wanted to familiarise yourself with the layout. They're in Alias's photograph thread.
Yes,I'll probably do that in the morning.
-
Yes,I'll probably do that in the morning.
Obviously Neville could not get June's assistance if she is dead. But why didn't he ask for it beforehand ?
-
David has not backed up his claim that Neville called Bamber and Chelmsford police after Sheila had killed June. Or responded to my questions. Lookout and Nugs have not supported this suggestion.
Therefore the theory that Neville didn't ask June for help, and called Bamber and then the police 16 minutes later because June had been killed, has been dismissed.
-
It has also been suggested that Sheila shot the twins first. While Neville was sleeping.
If Sheila fired 8 bullets into the twins, then 3 bullets into June, Sheila would then be out of bullets. Neville would not ask June for help as she was seriously injured. But he would be fully fit and able to take the rifle off Sheila, give June medical assistance and call 999 for an ambulance.
However it is claimed he instead went downstairs and rang Bamber, giving Sheila time to reload. Then rang Chelmsford police 16 minutes later. The only explanation of what happened in these 16 minutes being 'a further escalation of events'.
-
June was too unwell to help/assist anyone. Remember that she had to cancel her church meetings ??
-
June was too unwell to help/assist anyone. Remember that she had to cancel her church meetings ??
She wasn't unwell, she cancelled because Sheila and the twins were staying.
-
She wasn't unwell, she cancelled because Sheila and the twins were staying.
But she hadn't let her colleagues know of her absence,which had been out of character for someone who regularly attended. Which led me to believe that she'd been suddenly indisposed through illness.
-
But she hadn't let her colleagues know of her absence,which had been out of character for someone who regularly attended. Which led me to believe that she'd been suddenly indisposed through illness.
How do you know she didn't let them know? CAL's book mentions that she went to the church in the morning because she wasn't attending in the evening so she must have told them.
-
How do you know she didn't let them know? CAL's book mentions that she went to the church in the morning because she wasn't attending in the evening so she must have told them.
I had read,or it was widely known that because of June's absence,that enquiries had been made as to her sudden absence which hadn't been like her not to have let anyone know.
-
I had read,or it was widely known that because of June's absence,that enquiries had been made as to her sudden absence which hadn't been like her not to have let anyone know.
You would have read that here and just because t's written here, doesn't make it a fact.
-
Speaking about reading,while I've been looking for reference regarding June's absence from church,I've read and re-read " Freddie's "witness statement,page 4 and for the big man that he was,he was scared of Sheila's outbursts and rants,so I can imagine her behaviour on the night of the murders particularly when armed with a rifle.
This was the time when Sheila had thrown out Colin's mother from her flat.
-
Strange thing---------Andrea Yates didn't harm her dog either,instead,she put it in a cupboard after killing her five children.
Both Sheila and Andrea loved the dogs-----------Jeremy certainly didn't.
-
Strange thing---------Andrea Yates didn't harm her dog either,instead,she put it in a cupboard after killing her five children.
Both Sheila and Andrea loved the dogs-----------Jeremy certainly didn't.
Andrea also loved her children, not sure what point you're making? Jeremy is innocent because the dog wasn't shot? ???
-
Andrea also loved her children, not sure what point you're making? Jeremy is innocent because the dog wasn't shot? ???
Regarding your last paragraph,yes,that's just a part of it. Going by what others have said on here,Jeremy hated the dog and the dog wasn't keen on him either,so it would have gone crackers if it had been him in the farmhouse tearing around shooting everyone,to say nothing of the bites he'd have had if the dog was trying to guard the inhabitants,as dogs do.
-
Regarding your last paragraph,yes,that's just a part of it. Going by what others have said on here,Jeremy hated the dog and the dog wasn't keen on him either,so it would have gone crackers if it had been him in the farmhouse tearing around shooting everyone,to say nothing of the bites he'd have had if the dog was trying to guard the inhabitants,as dogs do.
Had dog all my life and unless they are attack dogs (which Crispy certainly wasn't), under such circumstances, the dog would be terrified.
-
Had dog all my life and unless they are attack dogs (which Crispy certainly wasn't), under such circumstances, the dog would be terrified.
A frightened dog will bite,it's their only form of defence,unless they're trained.
-
A frightened dog will bite,it's their only form of defence,unless they're trained.
That's yet another generalisation and simply not true of all dogs at all times.
-
June was too unwell to help/assist anyone. Remember that she had to cancel her church meetings ??
Best not to invite Sheila and two energetic 6 year olds to WHF if she was unwell.
-
Best not to invite Sheila and two energetic 6 year olds to WHF if she was unwell.
What an idiotic statement !
-
Best not to invite Sheila and two energetic 6 year olds to WHF if she was unwell.
I think they knew she was unwell, and wanted to alleviate the situation with the best of intentions. However they had taken their eye off the ball with Jeremy, given that in comparison to their daughter he was physically fit, though mentally unhinged.
-
I think they knew she was unwell, and wanted to alleviate the situation with the best of intentions. However they had taken their eye off the ball with Jeremy, given that in comparison to their daughter he was physically fit, though mentally unhinged.
June would have been the head of house during the day, while Neville was working. Cooking, cleaning and helping keep Sheila and two 6 year old boys in check. Even Bamber popped over for supper.
So the claim that June was too ill for Neville to ask for assistance is not valid.
-
June would have been the head of house during the day, while Neville was working. Cooking, cleaning and helping keep Sheila and two 6 year old boys in check. Even Bamber popped over for supper.
So the claim that June was too ill for Neville to ask for assistance is not valid.
Did Bamber say his Mum was ill, Nah, if June was ill would she have had supper, Bamber said after returning home at 9.45pm I spoke to my father who was sitting around the table with mum and Sheila, no one appeared distressed and everyone appeared happy? Did June tell Pam in the 10.00pm phone call how unwell she was?
-
David has not backed up his claim that Neville called Bamber and Chelmsford police after Sheila had killed June. Or responded to my questions. Lookout and Nugs have not supported this suggestion.
Therefore the theory that Neville didn't ask June for help, and called Bamber and then the police 16 minutes later because June had been killed, has been dismissed.
At trial the Police held up a copy of the phone book where all the local Police numbers are listed. A large banner reads across the page "In emergency call 999".
-
Why have such questions only cropped up now,30 years on ? i.e. June's ability to eat supper ? JB's inability to dial 999 ? Neville's request for help from his wife ?
Would Neville who had been downstairs known of his wife's death if she'd been upstairs ?
ALL emergency calls whether 999 or not,are recorded. Isn't it easy to hold up a phone book with a message, knowing that recorded were already destroyed and knowing that there'd been a blunder ? 12 months until JB's arrest would have given plenty of time to edit/destroy/alter anything that wouldn't have matched exactly what happened that morning of the 7th,particularly after the untimely death of DCI Jones ?
Does a police Sergeant now know more than a DCI ? I must remember that !
-
Why have such questions only cropped up now,30 years on ? i.e. June's ability to eat supper ? JB's inability to dial 999
Reply, because you keep saying June was unwell? Jeremy was asked at trial why he never dialled 999, it has not only just cropped up.
-
Why have such questions only cropped up now,30 years on ? i.e. June's ability to eat supper ? JB's inability to dial 999 ? Neville's request for help from his wife ?
Would Neville who had been downstairs known of his wife's death if she'd been upstairs ?
ALL emergency calls whether 999 or not,are recorded. Isn't it easy to hold up a phone book with a message, knowing that recorded were already destroyed and knowing that there'd been a blunder ? 12 months until JB's arrest would have given plenty of time to edit/destroy/alter anything that wouldn't have matched exactly what happened that morning of the 7th,particularly after the untimely death of DCI Jones ?
Does a police Sergeant now know more than a DCI ? I must remember that !
Who knows what questions were being asked 30 years ago? I doubt there were forums on which to air views.
You say that "All emergency calls, whether 999 or not, are recorded". I'm going to suggest that UNLESS it's a 999, ergo EMERGENCY, it isn't regarded as being such.....................and someone who diddles around looking for local numbers clearly doesn't regard the situation -despite talk of guns/insanity- as being such.
-
Why have such questions only cropped up now,30 years on ? i.e. June's ability to eat supper ? JB's inability to dial 999
Reply, because you keep saying June was unwell? Jeremy was asked at trial why he never dialled 999, it has not only just cropped up.
In JB's statement,he mentions that his mother had been seeing her GP for the past weeks/months before and up to the murders.Do we know why ? No,but when someone visits their GP would it not mean that they had some sort of a problem ? June didn't remind me of the sort of person who would waste the time of the GP !
Perhaps you could find out why ? Seeing that you're in denial-------like RWB was with the fostering ?
The 999 call is something that you yourself have brought up,when it's already been discussed umpteen times before-----------just for arguments sake and something to repeat because there's nothing else !
-
In JB's statement,he mentions that his mother had been seeing her GP for the past weeks/months before and up to the murders.Do we know why ? No,but when someone visits their GP would it not mean that they had some sort of a problem ? June didn't remind me of the sort of person who would waste the time of the GP !
Perhaps you could find out why ? Seeing that you're in denial-------like RWB was with the fostering ?
The 999 call is something that you yourself have brought up,when it's already been discussed umpteen times before-----------just for arguments sake and something to repeat because there's nothing else !
And you don't ever bring something up that's not been discussed before umpteen times? He also said the treatment helped her remain a stable person
-
In JB's statement,he mentions that his mother had been seeing her GP for the past weeks/months before and up to the murders.Do we know why ? No,but when someone visits their GP would it not mean that they had some sort of a problem ? June didn't remind me of the sort of person who would waste the time of the GP !
Perhaps you could find out why ? Seeing that you're in denial-------like RWB was with the fostering ?
The 999 call is something that you yourself have brought up,when it's already been discussed umpteen times before-----------just for arguments sake and something to repeat because there's nothing else !
It's not impossible that Jeremy would seek to insinuate his mother's problem as being mental. Needing to see one's GP over weeks/months in no way indicates mental instability. Hypochondriacs wouldn't see themselves as wasting a doctor's time.
-
It's not impossible that Jeremy would seek to insinuate his mother's problem as being mental. Needing to see one's GP over weeks/months in no way indicates mental instability. Hypochondriacs wouldn't see themselves as wasting a doctor's time.
There you go again ::) Did I mention anything about mental health in my post ? No,you did ! Putting words in my mouth AGAIN. I hadn't insinuated ANYTHING. I was just making it clear via Adam's post about June's inability to assist her husband,because he too hadn't believed that she'd been unwell.
-
There you go again ::) Did I mention anything about mental health in my post ? No,you did ! Putting words in my mouth AGAIN. I hadn't insinuated ANYTHING. I was just making it clear via Adam's post about June's inability to assist her husband,because he too hadn't believed that she'd been unwell.
Then why are you so concerned to know why June was seeing her doctor, EVEN to the point of suggesting Justice should find out? I have no idea what Adam's posts consist of.
-
Why have such questions only cropped up now,30 years on ? i.e. June's ability to eat supper ? JB's inability to dial 999 ? Neville's request for help from his wife ?
Would Neville who had been downstairs known of his wife's death if she'd been upstairs ?
ALL emergency calls whether 999 or not,are recorded. Isn't it easy to hold up a phone book with a message, knowing that recorded were already destroyed and knowing that there'd been a blunder ? 12 months until JB's arrest would have given plenty of time to edit/destroy/alter anything that wouldn't have matched exactly what happened that morning of the 7th,particularly after the untimely death of DCI Jones ?
Does a police Sergeant now know more than a DCI ? I must remember that !
A 999 call is an emergency call and it was recorded when someone dialled 999. Jeremy's call wasn't a 999 call and so wouldn't have been recorded.
-
Then why are you so concerned to know why June was seeing her doctor, EVEN to the point of suggesting Justice should find out? I have no idea what Adam's posts consist of.
June could have been having dizzy spells on account of her sustained black eye,and could have been having blood-pressure checks for all we know,but there's NO denying that she had become a regular visitor to her GP up to the tragedy. Something that her husband appeared concerned about .
Adam was being his usual self !!
-
June could have been having dizzy spells on account of her sustained black eye,and could have been having blood-pressure checks for all we know,but there's NO denying that she had become a regular visitor to her GP up to the tragedy. Something that her husband appeared concerned about .
Adam was being his usual self !!
No one else recalled seeing the black eye, just Jeremy.
-
A 100 out of 100 people would get assistance from another adult in a property. In the unlikely event that a discordinated female relative is running around bare footed in a nightie holding a rabbit rifle.
David has not followed up on his claim that Neville rang Bamber because Sheila had already killed June and the twins. No one has supported this view and it has been dismissed.
Lookout has defended her stance that June was too ill for Neville to ask for assistance. Although no one else has supported this view and everyone who has posted has disagreed with it. It will shortly be dismissed.
-
Go ahead and dismiss it. See if I care !!
-
Tell me,how much has your " team " raised in blocking another appeal ??
-
Then why are you so concerned to know why June was seeing her doctor, EVEN to the point of suggesting Justice should find out? I have no idea what Adam's posts consist of.
Maybe that's what Bamber meant when he phoned Julie "tonight's the night" he sensed everyone was unwell and would be easy targets?
-
Go ahead and dismiss it. See if I care !!
You should care if yours and David suggestions are dismissed. As these have been the only two reasons put forward.
-
I certainly don't care as much as you obviously do !
-
June could have been having dizzy spells on account of her sustained black eye,and could have been having blood-pressure checks for all we know,but there's NO denying that she had become a regular visitor to her GP up to the tragedy. Something that her husband appeared concerned about .
Adam was being his usual self !!
Are you saying that the black eye was an ongoing thing lasting weeks/months? If so, how come Jeremy was the only one to see it? I'm not certain how you're seeing "regular" appointments.
-
Tell me,how much has your " team " raised in blocking another appeal ??
Team? ::). You don't need to raise money to black an appeal.
-
Team? ::). You don't need to raise money to black an appeal.
It can and does happen,besides signing protests.
-
This thread was created on the 16th October 2016. It had 18 reasons why Neville would ask June for assistance.
Only two counter arguments have been put forward -
A one post suggestion that Neville called Bamber and the police after Sheila had killed June.
June was too ill to give assistance.
Neither of these suggestions have received support from any other posters. The only comments have disagreed.
Therefore the possibility that Neville would choose to ring Bamber and Chelmsford police, and not ask June for assistance, or that an awake June would not offer assistance, has been dismissed.
-
What are you on about Adam. No one including g you know what the sequence of events was its all speculation. None of us were there. Although it is good to debate our theories and opinions and is interesting but you take it to another level adam. Who are you to dismiss anyone's theories.
How do you know that shiela didn't start waving a gun around and Neville rang jeremy to get hi to come over and help before anyone had been shot.
Truth is none of us know , so you can dismiss anything you like it won't make a jot of difference.
We all tend to dramatise events when it could have been as simple as shiela losing the plot and killing everyone.
The only thing we have to overcome is Julie's statements, do we believe her and the silencer. Because circumstantial evidence in this case does not convince me of jbs guilt.
-
Tell me,how much has your " team " raised in blocking another appeal ??
I must admit it's a shocking dereliction of duty on the part of the Defence not to have had these letters analysed before 31 years elapsed, whatever the outcome.
-
I must admit it's a shocking dereliction of duty on the part of the Defence not to have had these letters analysed before 31 years elapsed, whatever the outcome.
I have to agree with you Steve.
-
What are you on about Adam. No one including g you know what the sequence of events was its all speculation. None of us were there. Although it is good to debate our theories and opinions and is interesting but you take it to another level adam. Who are you to dismiss anyone's theories.
How do you know that shiela didn't start waving a gun around and Neville rang jeremy to get hi to come over and help before anyone had been shot.
Truth is none of us know , so you can dismiss anything you like it won't make a jot of difference.
We all tend to dramatise events when it could have been as simple as shiela losing the plot and killing everyone.
The only thing we have to overcome is Julie's statements, do we believe her and the silencer. Because circumstantial evidence in this case does not convince me of jbs guilt.
So you don't agree with David, that Neville rang Bamber and then the police 16 minutes later, after Sheila had killed the twins and June ? I agree it was a touch too late.
Do you believe Neville would ask June for help if she was alive ? The only reason given why Neville wouldn't is June was apparently too ill to assist. Although Neville could have then still woken June so she at least knew what was happening.
Supporters have said June was a light sleeper and would have heard Bamber get through the downstairs window and creep up the stairs. If that was the case I'm not sure why June (or the twins) didn't hear Sheila and Neville go at it for several minutes or hours.
As mentioned, 100 out of 100 people in Neville's situation would ask the nearest available adult for assistance. People can't claim Neville didn't have the opportunity to, as he was able to phone Bamber and then look for the number and phone Chelmsford police.
The jury will discuss why June did not assist Neville.
-
Adam I am not convinced of the timings of any of the phone calls. Everyone seemed to say something different when it suited them.
look adam how do we know that June didn't try and help Neville. You can't rule anything out as there is no evidence of what and how things happened.
june may have told Neville to go and get help just before she was shot.
I don't know and neither do you!
-
One of JB's firm supporters was a magistrate for over 40 years and what she doesn't know isn't worth knowing and I'm afraid I'd rather go along with her than you,Adam so you're wasting your time.
-
Adam I am not convinced of the timings of any of the phone calls. Everyone seemed to say something different when it suited them.
look adam how do we know that June didn't try and help Neville. You can't rule anything out as there is no evidence of what and how things happened.
june may have told Neville to go and get help just before she was shot.
I don't know and neither do you!
June was shot with her head on the pillow. Then shot several more times in bed. So did not offer any assistance.
Bamber in his WS says Neville called him at 3.10am. Then says Neville called the police at 3.26am.
Bamber says he called the police at 3.36am, which was 26 minutes after Neville called him. These times are in logs and WS's. What are you not sure of ?
The only dispute is the police log is from one call, which was by Bamber to the police. Supporters have jumped on one digit being different on two logs, showing 3.26am and 3.36am. To claim Neville also called the fifth furthest away police station.
-
One of JB's firm supporters was a magistrate for over 40 years and what she doesn't know isn't worth knowing and I'm afraid I'd rather go along with her than you,Adam so you're wasting your time.
I've no idea what Adam has said but, one of my friends was a magistrate and knew Nevill. She's perfectly convinced of Jeremy's guilt.
-
I've no idea what Adam has said but, one of my friends was a magistrate and knew Nevill. She's perfectly convinced of Jeremy's guilt.
So that MAKES him guilty,because the woman happens to be a friend of yours ? That figures.
-
So that MAKES him guilty,because the woman happens to be a friend of yours ? That figures.
I could have made exactly the same inane comment to you, Lookout, but I refrained.
-
One of JB's firm supporters was a magistrate for over 40 years and what she doesn't know isn't worth knowing and I'm afraid I'd rather go along with her than you,Adam so you're wasting your time.
Who is this magistrate ?
-
I could have made exactly the same inane comment to you, Lookout, but I refrained.
The difference being that the woman I'm referring to is contactable by yourself either directly or indirectly, via Trudi.
-
The difference being that the woman I'm referring to is contactable by yourself either directly or indirectly, via Trudi.
The woman to whom I refer is contactable by me any time. I don't have to go through a Jeremy acolyte.
-
The difference being that the woman I'm referring to is contactable by yourself either directly or indirectly, via Trudi.
If she's connected with the CT I wouldn't bother but so what if she's a magistrate - what's that got to do with it?
-
June was shot with her head on the pillow. Then shot several more times in bed. So did not offer any assistance.
Bamber in his WS says Neville called him at 3.10am. Then says Neville called the police at 3.26am.
Bamber says he called the police at 3.36am, which was 26 minutes after Neville called him. These times are in logs and WS's. What are you not sure of ?
The only dispute is the police log is from one call, which was by Bamber to the police. Supporters have jumped on one digit being different on two logs, showing 3.26am and 3.36am. To claim Neville also called the fifth furthest away police station.
there are plenty of disputes adam, ie Julie's housemates started saying around 3 30, then changed there minds, the log stated 3 36, I