Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on August 24, 2016, 11:02:PM
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I thought the silencer was designed espescially for shooting vermin. Such as rabbits.
If Bamber saw rabbits and surprisingly decided the situation was worthy of going to try to negate them, surely it was worth putting a silencer on.
Maybe Bamber didn't believe he had time to put it on. However he had time to fully load the rifle.
Bamber said he saw rabbits, rather than one rabbit. Being a farmer and proficient with the rifle he would know that after one shot without the silencer on, all the rabbits would dispearse. So why bother fully loading the rifle ?
If the rabbits were so dangerous, surely it was worth shooting or attempting to shoot them all.
Or maybe the silencer was already on the rifle. A relative said he saw the rifle with the silencer attached shortly before the massacre. There really was no reason to take it off as it still fitted in the gun cupboard.
As it happened, Bamber went outside and didn't fire a single shot at the rabbits. They must have all dispersed in a short period.
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6221.msg292159.html#msg292159
Of course a previous thread shows it is very very unlikely Bamber would have bothered attempting to shoot rabbits. With or without a silencer attached.
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also adam.how did he manage to see the rabbits from the kitchen it was pitch black outside
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The whole seeing rabbits scenario sounds much too contrived.
It's all very unlikely. It is a typical case of a guilty person trying too hard to set the scene, in an attempt to frame another person.
It was more credible to just say Sheila must have gone to the gun cupboard and taken a rifle. She would know where the gun cupboard was. Or just say Neville had left a rifle outside the gun cuoboard.
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The whole seeing rabbits scenario sounds much too contrived.
It's all very unlikely. It is a typical case of a guilty person trying too hard to set the scene, in an attempt to frame another person.
It was more credible to just say Sheila must have gone to the gun cupboard and taken a rifle. She would know where the gun cupboard was. Or just say Neville had left a rifle outside the gun cuoboard.
yes i agree adam.they also caught him out on the number of bullets found on the worktop as to the number fired.
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also adam.how did he manage to see the rabbits from the kitchen it was pitch black outside
Erm---you can hear them scuttling around !
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Erm---you can hear them scuttling around !
We have lots of rabbits here (this year more than ever for some reason), you can't hear them at all.
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We have lots of rabbits here (this year more than ever for some reason), you can't hear them at all.
You probably don't have straw outside. They rustle around looking for food and you can occasionally hear them thump their hind legs when they take off. If there's a few together you'll hear them.
I always thought you couldn't hear hedgehogs,but-------------they make a noise too,like a grunting sound.
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You probably don't have straw outside. They rustle around looking for food and you can occasionally hear them thump their hind legs when they take off. If there's a few together you'll hear them.
I always thought you couldn't hear hedgehogs,but-------------they make a noise too,like a grunting sound.
No, we have gravel - still can't hear them.
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No, we have gravel - still can't hear them.
You probably won't hear them on gravel,just on solid ground where,at WHF,they'd probably been previously heard by others and not just JB ?
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Did Bamber say he heard or saw rabbits ?
In a kitchen with several other people, there is no way he would hear rabbits through windows several metres away.
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You probably won't hear them on gravel,just on solid ground where,at WHF,they'd probably been previously heard by others and not just JB ?
You can't hear them at all unless they're wearing DM's? ;D However, Jeremy didn't say he 'heard' them, he said he 'saw' them. He also said he was in a hurry, but proceeded to 'fill' the magazine
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You can't hear them at all unless they're wearing DM's? ;D However, Jeremy didn't say he 'heard' them, he said he 'saw' them. He also said he was in a hurry, but proceeded to 'fill' the magazine
Well my own personal thoughts have always been that he possibly used the " rabbits " excuse as a diversion from what was going on around the supper table ( intense discussion or argument ) so his way of leaving the room was that he saw rabbits,which he may well have done if the back door had been open and a light shining as you can see eyes glinting in creatures outside, then " filling " the magazine would seem more natural/normal rather than an approach with an empty one ?
Only those who say he's guilty will see a motive in him doing this,as it HAS to fit in with the rest of his foibles.
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The only realistic scenario is he saw rabbits as he walked up to the kitchen door.
His only option then was to go straight out with a fully loaded rifle (minus silencer ?) and hope the rabbits were in the same place. Which they obviously were not.
That would mean he returned to the kitchen early evening and left the rifle sprawled out in full view of all adults while they were still up, awake and having supper.
But Neville and June still didn't put the rifle away. Or tell Bamber to put it away.
Bamber also didn't bother putting the rifle back where he found it, which would have taken him another 10 seconds. If he made the effort to go outside to shoot rabbits, you would think he would be able to put the rifle away.
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Well my own personal thoughts have always been that he possibly used the " rabbits " excuse as a diversion from what was going on around the supper table ( intense discussion or argument ) so his way of leaving the room was that he saw rabbits,which he may well have done if the back door had been open and a light shining as you can see eyes glinting in creatures outside, then " filling " the magazine would seem more natural/normal rather than an approach with an empty one ?
Only those who say he's guilty will see a motive in him doing this,as it HAS to fit in with the rest of his foibles.
he paid enough attention to the discussion because he told police what it was about.
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he paid enough attention to the discussion because he told police what it was about.
So can't you do two things at once ? It's obvious that he hadn't caught what all the conversation was about or he'd have stayed for longer,listening in. All he got was the gist of it and not what we know now.
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So can't you do two things at once ? It's obvious that he hadn't caught what all the conversation was about or he'd have stayed for longer,listening in. All he got was the gist of it and not what we know now.
once again i will say there was no argument which involved sheila.its only the words of jb.can never be proven it took place
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once again i will say there was no argument which involved sheila.its only the words of jb.can never be proven it took place
Why ? Were you there too ? ::)
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Why ? Were you there too ? ::)
no,were you :)) :))
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Well my own personal thoughts have always been that he possibly used the " rabbits " excuse as a diversion from what was going on around the supper table ( intense discussion or argument ) so his way of leaving the room was that he saw rabbits,which he may well have done if the back door had been open and a light shining as you can see eyes glinting in creatures outside, then " filling " the magazine would seem more natural/normal rather than an approach with an empty one ?
Only those who say he's guilty will see a motive in him doing this,as it HAS to fit in with the rest of his foibles.
Jb didn't need a diversion......he could have gone home! As he did not long after, leaving Neville to collect the last tractor of rape..or whatever. The reason he spoke of 'rabbits' was so that he could load the rifle without causing any comment as to why he was loading it.
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no,were you :)) :))
Perhaps I know people better than you do !! Without following a " gang " !
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Jb didn't need a diversion......he could have gone home! As he did not long after, leaving Neville to collect the last tractor of rape..or whatever. The reason he spoke of 'rabbits' was so that he could load the rifle without causing any comment as to why he was loading it.
Say what you like----------I've got my OWN ideas,etc !!
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Perhaps I know people better than you do !! Without following a " gang " !
yea perhaps you do,you keep saying iam in a gang,iam not,my gang days are long gone iam just a law abiding grand father :)
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yea perhaps you do,you keep saying iam in a gang,iam not,my gang days are long gone iam just a law abiding grand father :)
Yeah !!
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Say what you like----------I've got my OWN ideas,etc !!
excellent ideas they are too,lookout
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excellent ideas they are too,lookout
:)) :))
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Erm---you can hear them scuttling around !
Err, how would that be possible from inside the thick walls of a Georgian build?
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Well my own personal thoughts have always been that he possibly used the " rabbits " excuse as a diversion from what was going on around the supper table ( intense discussion or argument ) so his way of leaving the room was that he saw rabbits,which he may well have done if the back door had been open and a light shining as you can see eyes glinting in creatures outside, then " filling " the magazine would seem more natural/normal rather than an approach with an empty one ?
Only those who say he's guilty will see a motive in him doing this,as it HAS to fit in with the rest of his foibles.
Seeing isn't hearing.
Only those who think he's innocent will see a motive in his using rabbits as a motive to leave the discussion you allege was going on round the supper table.
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Perhaps I know people better than you do !! Without following a " gang " !
You certainly seem to "know people" in a way which is entirely relative to your own mind set, Lookout ;)
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You certainly seem to "know people" in a way which is entirely relative to your own mind set, Lookout ;)
It doesn't matter if Lookout, or anyone, knows 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people... there is only one person that was there that night that survived and can tell the story of the apparent conversation around the table.
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No, we have gravel - still can't hear them.
Aw shucks! You just happen to have the type of path that you can't hear rabbits on! Typical eh!
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No, we have gravel - still can't hear them.
You need egg shells Caroline, hard for bunnies not to be heard?
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It doesn't matter if Lookout, or anyone, knows 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people... there is only one person that was there that night that survived and can tell the story of the apparent conversation around the table.
And according to what that person told Colin, "................no one will ever know what really happened that night" which is a curious thing for an innocent person to say and a convenient one to be able to say for someone who's guilty.
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And according to what that person told Colin, "................no one will ever know what really happened that night" which is a curious thing for an innocent person to say and a convenient one to be able to say for someone who's guilty.
Nothing curious about it at all seeing as that person wasn't even there.
I didn't realise that you could be imprisoned for surmising though !!
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i had a holiday at highpoint 'castle' in newmarket.at night i would look out the window and see tons of rabbits but never did i hear them .i must add that highpoint castle has flood lights all around it so the guests dont 'sleepwalk' over the fence ;)
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If you weren't on the ground floor,you wouldn't have heard anything
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If you weren't on the ground floor,you wouldn't have heard anything
I don't know many who 'hear' rabbits when they're indoors.
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I don't know many who 'hear' rabbits when they're indoors.
Except those on farms with barns close by and back doors open in midsummer.
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I don't know many who 'hear' rabbits when they're indoors.
In all fairness..... I understood that supposedly JB had seen the bunnies whilst returning to the house.
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In all fairness..... I understood that supposedly JB had seen the bunnies whilst returning to the house.
THAT, I am prepared to go along with.
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If you weren't on the ground floor,you wouldn't have heard anything
i was on the ground floor.
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i was on the ground floor.
Cheapskate.
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THAT, I am prepared to go along with.
I believe it was Caroline who'd said they were " heard ".
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I believe it was Caroline who'd said they were " heard ".
Errr it was YOU! I said they weren't!
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I believe it was Caroline who'd said they were " heard ".
This was the conversation started by YOU!
Erm---you can hear them scuttling around !
We have lots of rabbits here (this year more than ever for some reason), you can't hear them at all.
You probably don't have straw outside. They rustle around looking for food and you can occasionally hear them thump their hind legs when they take off. If there's a few together you'll hear them.
I always thought you couldn't hear hedgehogs,but-------------they make a noise too,like a grunting sound.
No, we have gravel - still can't hear them.
You probably won't hear them on gravel,just on solid ground where,at WHF,they'd probably been previously heard by others and not just JB ?
Then I posted THIS!
You can't hear them at all unless they're wearing DM's? ;D However, Jeremy didn't say he 'heard' them, he said he 'saw' them. He also said he was in a hurry, but proceeded to 'fill' the magazine
DM's as in Doctor Martin boots - I was taking the pi**! Jeremy didn't say he HEARD them, he said he SAW them!
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Cheapskate.
it was a 6month holiday paid for by the queen ,i wasnt offered the choice to go or not.sorry lookout youre not from around these parts or you would understand where i was staying :)
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Aw shucks! You just happen to have the type of path that you can't hear rabbits on! Typical eh!
Ha, ha! If anyone should know if rabbits make a noise, it should be you Mat? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Her Majesty's Pleasure I suspect.
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Her Majesty's Pleasure I suspect.
spot on lookout.theres no such castle in newmarket.there is highpoint 'workhouse' :)
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I believe it was Caroline who'd said they were " heard ".
nice try lookout.you must stop saying things then blaming someone else for the remark :) ;D
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nice try lookout.you must stop saying things then blaming someone else for the remark :) ;D
It certainly wasn't me who first said it. It just shows what happens when you follow sheep.!
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It certainly wasn't me who first said it. It just shows what happens when you follow sheep.!
baaaaaaaa :)
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It certainly wasn't me who first said it. It just shows what happens when you follow sheep.!
You only have to go to the beginning of this thread and you can see your post! This one posted below! It's the FIRST one that mentions hearing rabbits scuttling around. I then said that you CAN'T hear them and you argued that you could. It always amazes me how far you will go not to admit to being WRONG!
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You'd still hear them rummaging especially if there was straw or undergrowth/plants to munch.
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You'd still hear them rummaging especially if there was straw or undergrowth/plants to munch.
Unbelievable! :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Rabbits can make strange squeaky sounds. :-\
https://youtu.be/_xCEMFERDdA (https://youtu.be/_xCEMFERDdA)
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Rabbits can make strange squeaky sounds. :-\
https://youtu.be/_xCEMFERDdA (https://youtu.be/_xCEMFERDdA)
I don't care if they can sing God Save The Queen, Jeremy said he SAW them.
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Ha, ha! If anyone should know if rabbits make a noise, it should be you Mat? ;D ;D ;D ;D
It depends on the size. Maybe these were BIG ones? ;D
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I don't care if they can sing God Save The Queen, Jeremy said he SAW them.
:)) :)) :)) :)) very whitty caroline ;)
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You'd still hear them rummaging especially if there was straw or undergrowth/plants to munch.
:)) :)) :)) and you had ears their size!
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It depends on the size. Maybe these were BIG ones? ;D
A few of these might not be able to sneak past unheard? ;D ;D ;D
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1Fo236Hfaqs/maxresdefault.jpg)
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Hahahahaha!! ;D
Suppose I could ask Bamber.... but he didn't SEE them he HEARD them, well according to him.
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Hahahahaha!! ;D
Suppose I could ask Bamber.... but he didn't SEE them he HEARD them, well according to him.
Or according to Lookout! ;)
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I don't care if they can sing God Save The Queen, Jeremy said he SAW them.
And it could have been the sound that prompted him to take a look
not really worth debating
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:)) :)) :)) and you had ears their size!
:)) :)) :)).one would need ears 4 times bigger than prince charles.i hope zoe doent see this post
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And it could have been the sound that prompted him to take a look
not really worth debating
Then don't debate it!
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Then don't debate it!
Good idea :)
Onto more important things, Have you found a medical reason for why Sheila develops no post-mortem hypostasis yet ::)
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Good idea :)
Onto more important things, Have you found a medical reason for why Sheila develops no post-mortem hypostasis yet ::)
You proof that she hadn't? Or just a picture from the internet?
Is there a reason why you follow me around the board and above all else want to prove me wrong?
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You proof that she hadn't? Or just a picture from the internet?
Is there a reason why you follow me around the board and above all else want to prove me wrong?
yes good question .i might ask the same to lookout,she seems to target me more than others
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You proof that she hadn't? Or just a picture from the internet?
Crime scene photos.
Is there a reason why you follow me around the board and above all else want to prove me wrong?
Your the one that's following me around, been reading my posts on IA again lately? ::)
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yes good question .i might ask the same to lookout,she seems to target me more than others
Half your luck.
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Crime scene photos.
Your the one that's following me around, been reading my posts on IA again lately? ::)
You don't have the criem scene photo's you have poor copies from the internet.
I've been reading that board for months! I'm more interested in Clive's posts than you're bragging and trying to take the credit for other people's efforts.
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You don't have the criem scene photo's you have poor copies from the internet.
I've been reading that board for months! I'm more interested in Clive's posts than you're bragging and trying to take the credit for other people's efforts.
Who is Clive?
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You don't have the criem scene photo's you have poor copies from the internet.
Another assumption you get wrong.
I've been reading that board for months! I'm more interested in Clive's posts than you're bragging and trying to take the credit for other people's efforts.
Strange how its only you that makes these allegations against me. What is everyone else not seeing that you are? ::) The bacon is all in your mind. In other words you are solipsist
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Another assumption you get wrong.
Strange how its only you that makes these allegations against me. What is everyone else not seeing that you are? ::) The bacon is all in your mind. In other words you are solipsist
YOUR PROJECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Another assumption you get wrong.
Strange how its only you that makes these allegations against me. What is everyone else not seeing that you are? ::) The bacon is all in your mind. In other words you are solipsist
how is the poll going .'will jb get 3rd appeal
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Another assumption you get wrong.
Strange how its only you that makes these allegations against me. What is everyone else not seeing that you are? ::) The bacon is all in your mind. In other words you are solipsist
So you're saying you have official crime scene pictures? Then post the evidence!
So you didn't tell the IA board that you have a vast amount of information (which you had to get from here) and didn't bother promoting this board or give Mike the credit?
I'm not the only one to believe you are self serving, there are others here who think the same.
You're about as ham an actor as JB is, must be why you mention bacon is every post - or is that an attempt to goad? Keep it up - it's you who is looking like an arse. Also, if you can email me the picture you PM'd me about (and no I won't be nice to you), you could post it on the forum for everyone to scrutinise.
I think it's best if we put each other on ignore, I'm not interested in discussing anything with you.
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So you're saying you have official crime scene pictures? Then post the evidence!
So you didn't tell the IA board that you have a vast amount of information (which you had to get from here) and didn't bother promoting this board or give Mike the credit?
I'm not the only one to believe you are self serving, there are others here who think the same.
You're about as ham an actor as JB is, must be why you mention bacon is every post - or is that an attempt to goad? Keep it up - it's you who is looking like an arse. Also, if you can email me the picture you PM'd me about (and no I won't be nice to you), you could post it on the forum for everyone to scrutinise.
I became interested with this case with honest intentions and it remains like that to this very day.
The idea you have of me as a dishonest liar with a self serving agenda is nothing but an illusion in your mind. The mind often employs mental gymnastics as a way of dealing with cognitive dissonance. You have such a high and inflated belief in your "intuition" and self proclaimed ability to read people, once you are faced with the possibility of that being wrong a process of self-manipulation begins in order to justify your unjustifiable or irrational positions.
I suppose you could just admit to getting something wrong but that's too difficult for some ::)
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I became interested with this case with honest intentions and it remains like that to this very day.
The idea you have of me as a dishonest liar with a self serving agenda is nothing but an illusion in your mind. The mind often employs mental gymnastics as a way of dealing with cognitive dissonance. You have such a high and inflated belief in your "intuition" and self proclaimed ability to read people, once you are faced with the possibility of that being wrong a process of self-manipulation begins in order to justify your unjustifiable or irrational positions.
I suppose you could just admit to getting something wrong but that's too difficult for some ::)
she has admitted she was wrong about jb'when she thought he was innocent.a fact you seem very happy to throw in her face everytime youre stuck :)
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I became interested with this case with honest intentions and it remains like that to this very day.
The idea you have of me as a dishonest liar with a self serving agenda is nothing but an illusion in your mind. The mind often employs mental gymnastics as a way of dealing with cognitive dissonance. You have such a high and inflated belief in your "intuition" and self proclaimed ability to read people, once you are faced with the possibility of that being wrong a process of self-manipulation begins in order to justify your unjustifiable or irrational positions.
I suppose you could just admit to getting something wrong but that's too difficult for some ::)
I don't have anything wrong. But now you're self proclaimed psychologist as well as a forensic expert? You're unbelievable and completely deluded! I 100% believe you are self serving and as such, I have no wish to discuss anything with you. You said I was wrong about you not having access to the crime scene pictures - so put your money where your mouth is and prove it. Let us ALL see them!
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she has admitted she was wrong about jb'when she thought he was innocent.a fact you seem very happy to throw in her face everytime youre stuck :)
I have no problem admitting I am wrong. This isn't about me, or David or any other member - it's about the deaths of 5 people and I think through the BS, that often gets lost. They were REAL people not faces on the internet to be picked over.
I'm not here to 'crack the case' or win brownie points with anyone. If I am wrong, it wouldn't bother me one iota and if Jeremy did turn out to be innocent (fat chance), good luck to him. If he manages to get off on a technicality, good luck to him also. What I would say though, if you have been trusted with information from Jeremy's legal team, then perhaps you shouldn't mention it on an open forum - if you do mention it then can't produce it, you shouldn't be surprised when people are sceptical. We've all been here before on this forum!
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I don't care if they can sing God Save The Queen, Jeremy said he SAW them.
HaHa like it.
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Hahahahaha!! ;D
Suppose I could ask Bamber.... but he didn't SEE them he HEARD them, well according to him.
Yes he was jealous of the rabbits, because they were millionHares and listening to HipHop music.
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I have no problem admitting I am wrong. This isn't about me, or David or any other member - it's about the deaths of 5 people and I think through the BS, that often gets lost. They were REAL people not faces on the internet to be picked over.
I'm not here to 'crack the case' or win brownie points with anyone. If I am wrong, it wouldn't bother me one iota and if Jeremy did turn out to be innocent (fat chance), good luck to him. If he manages to get off on a technicality, good luck to him also. What I would say though, if you have been trusted with information from Jeremy's legal team, then perhaps you shouldn't mention it on an open forum - if you do mention it then can't produce it, you shouldn't be surprised when people are sceptical. We've all been here before on this forum!
Great post Caroline, I was told personal information about Bamber from a psychiatrist I won't reveal it because I cannot then back it up unless I get this person on here which I doubt very much. David likes to get rid of opposition who is better than him, he did it with Lemonhead/Scipio, shame because at one time he was a good poster.
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Yes he was jealous of the rabbits, because they were millionHares and listening to HipHop music.
:)) :)) :)) ;)
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Great post Caroline, I was told personal information about Bamber from a psychiatrist I won't reveal it because I cannot then back it up unless I get this person on here which I doubt very much.
A psychiatrist's opinion of ones mental state does not take precedence over physical and forensic evidence. You take the word a doctor that does not honour physician–patient confidentiality? I would be having reservations if I was you.
David likes to get rid of opposition who is better than him, he did it with Lemonhead/Scipio, shame because at one time he was a good poster.
It was Mike that banned Scipio not me. As for the situation with Scipio now, he seems to have given up on arguing for JBs guilt. He has not signed in on red for a few months now and he does not reply to my e-mails either. He could be ill or something of that nature but I hope not. :-\
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A psychiatrist's opinion of ones mental state does not take precedence over physical and forensic evidence. You take the word a doctor that does not honour physician–patient confidentiality? I would be having reservations if I was you.
It was Mike that banned Scipio not me. As for the situation with Scipio now, he seems to have given up on arguing for JBs guilt. He has not signed in on red for a few months now and he does not reply to my e-mails either. He could be ill or something of that nature but I hope not. :-\
if physical and forensic evidence was really there would jb be where he is today.i doubt it
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A psychiatrist's opinion of ones mental state does not take precedence over physical and forensic evidence. You take the word a doctor that does not honour physician–patient confidentiality? I would be having reservations if I was you.
It was Mike that banned Scipio not me. As for the situation with Scipio now, he seems to have given up on arguing for JBs guilt. He has not signed in on red for a few months now and he does not reply to my e-mails either. He could be ill or something of that nature but I hope not. :-\
Who said confidentiality was broke? We live in a world where people write books about anyone or thing, these people don't need to write because Bamber is in his rightful place.
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we better get back to the topic or maggie will lock it.why didnt jb put the silencer on i know he was in a hurry to get the rabbits but screwing the silencer on would have taken him seconds and would undoubtably help him get the lot.did he know something about silencer.like it might contain traces of blood
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did he know something about silencer.like it might contain traces of blood
I seem to remember reading that the sights of a silencer need to be set for different ranges.....was this what JB was doing outside of WHF that night?
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I seem to remember reading that the sights of a silencer need to be set for different ranges.....was this what JB was doing outside of WHF that night?
romeo did you mean the telescopic sights
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I guess so yes....are they already attached to a rifle?
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Both the sights and silencer had been removed by JB that night before he put the rifle on the settle. The sights are a fiddly thing to attach and has to be done with a screwdriver,so that job wouldn't have been attempted.
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Both the sights and silencer had been removed by JB that night before he put the rifle on the settle. The sights are a fiddly thing to attach and has to be done with a screwdriver,so that job wouldn't have been attempted.
I thought he said they had already been removed? Will check later Lookout.
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I thought he said they had already been removed? Will check later Lookout.
Maybe they had been.I knew neither were on the rifle before he left.
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You can't possibly have a Sheila in psychosis going to a drawer, taking out a screwdriver and unscrewing the sights. Now play fair, please..
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Maybe they had been.I knew neither were on the rifle before he left.
He says the sights and silencer were not with the rifle in his statement, as I thought. I think looking back somewhere he mentions his Dad must have removed them?
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I thought he said they had already been removed? Will check later Lookout.
I asked him about this and he said he thought his dad had removed them when he cleaned the rifle.
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I guess so yes....are they already attached to a rifle?
yes the sights can be added and like you said have to be zeroed in or set/the silencer only needs screwing on and doesnt help with aiming
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I asked him about this and he said he thought his dad had removed them when he cleaned the rifle.
As if he would have done, with all that was happening at Harvest.
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I asked him about this and he said he thought his dad had removed them when he cleaned the rifle.
Thought that's what he had said Caroline, how convenient, yet they were on the weekend before, farmers usually have their guns ready for action, nothing worse having to sight and put a silencer back on when rabbits are about.
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He says the sights and silencer were not with the rifle in his statement, as I thought. I think looking back somewhere he mentions his Dad must have removed them?
Yes,I think it was his dad who'd removed them,which in fact he could have been in the throes of putting it away with any other rifle or gun at the time.
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Thought that's what he had said Caroline, how convenient, yet they were on the weekend before, farmers usually have their guns ready for action, nothing worse having to sight and put a silencer back on when rabbits are about.
totally agree justice,and had they been taken off for cleaning they would have been reattached as soon as cleaning was over.like you said farmers have their firearms ready at all times
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totally agree justice,and had they been taken off for cleaning they would have been reattached as soon as cleaning was over.like you said farmers have their firearms ready at all times
Everything is so convenient for me Sami, The Rabbits he heard/saw, the sights and silencer, the loading of a full magazine, the way he had his back to his parents and Sheila could possibly see him, getting the point across he had handled the rifle the night before in case finger prints, leaving the bullets near the telephone (even though June had been on the phone to Pamella) leaving the rifle out yet Neville was meticulous with his guns, so much he would even remove the sights and silencer to clean them according to Bamber, he didn't fire any shot he ejected the round in the breach, he remembers all this but he couldn't remember what he said to Julie in a phone conversation, or he couldn't remember if he phoned the police or Julie first.
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Everything is so convenient for me Sami, The Rabbits he heard/saw, the sights and silencer, the loading of a full magazine, the way he had his back to his parents and Sheila could possibly see him, getting the point across he had handled the rifle the night before in case finger prints, leaving the bullets near the telephone (even though June had been on the phone to Pamella) leaving the rifle out yet Neville was meticulous with his guns, so much he would even remove the sights and silencer to clean them according to Bamber, he didn't fire any shot he ejected the round in the breach, he remembers all this but he couldn't remember what he said to Julie in a phone conversation, or he couldn't remember if he phoned the police or Julie first.
The phone off the hook to support the phone call .....
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The phone off the hook to support the phone call .....
Quite right Caroline you can go on and on
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The phone off the hook to support the phone call .....
also the one you spotted caroline.he got in to a locked whf after the murders to get some 'papers' but on his way out left a note for bw asking her to lock the window he had entered from.giving the illousion that he could get in a locked whf but couldnt lock it once he had left.good work caroline :)
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also the one you spotted caroline.he got in to a locked whf after the murders to get some 'papers' but on his way out left a note for bw asking her to lock the window he had entered from.giving the illousion that he could get in a locked whf but couldnt lock it once he had left.good work caroline :)
;)
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Everything is so convenient for me Sami, The Rabbits he heard/saw, the sights and silencer, the loading of a full magazine, the way he had his back to his parents and Sheila could possibly see him, getting the point across he had handled the rifle the night before in case finger prints, leaving the bullets near the telephone (even though June had been on the phone to Pamella) leaving the rifle out yet Neville was meticulous with his guns, so much he would even remove the sights and silencer to clean them according to Bamber, he didn't fire any shot he ejected the round in the breach, he remembers all this but he couldn't remember what he said to Julie in a phone conversation, or he couldn't remember if he phoned the police or Julie first.
Also JB couldn't remember what he spoke to Sheila about in the field that day! Sheila's diary tells us instead...." I didn't mean to be nasty to JB" So JB could have been saying something nasty to her and she retaliated.
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Also JB couldn't remember what he spoke to Sheila about in the field that day! Sheila's diary tells us instead...." I didn't mean to be nasty to JB" So JB could have been saying something nasty to her and she retaliated.
spot on romeo.jb suffers from what is called selected memory ;)
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spot on romeo.jb suffers from what is called selected memory ;)
Quite right Sam and it all ties in,without selective memory, such things as denial and gaslighting just don’t work.
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Quite right Sam and it all ties in,without selective memory, such things as denial and gaslighting just don’t work.
its also a clear indicator of a liar,justice
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its also a clear indicator of a liar,justice
Correct Sami read this,,
By contrast, selective memory is the phenomenon by which a person deliberately chooses to remember what he or she wants to remember and chooses to forget the rest. Selective memory does not apply across the board, the way not paying attention does. It is directed at specific events or specific aspects of an event. The person who exercises selective memory typically pays attention to everything about the event and then chooses those parts that he or she finds convenient for his or her purposes.
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The phone off the hook to support the phone call .....
Then the absence of post mortem hypostasis to seriously support the phone call! How did JB set than one up? ::)
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The phone off the hook to support the phone call .....
Then some dumb officer uses that phone and wipes off any trace of previous prints ::)
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Correct Sami read this,,
By contrast, selective memory is the phenomenon by which a person deliberately chooses to remember what he or she wants to remember and chooses to forget the rest. Selective memory does not apply across the board, the way not paying attention does. It is directed at specific events or specific aspects of an event. The person who exercises selective memory typically pays attention to everything about the event and then chooses those parts that he or she finds convenient for his or her purposes.
very interesting justice,it fits jb beautifully.not knowing if the bullets he loaded were from a 'full box' or nearly full.easy for most people if one opens a box and theres gaps than its not a full box ;)
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Why would JB have needed to have carried a box of loose bullets into the bedroom ? Then leave the box there ? In a pocket I could understand-------but a box ?
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Then the absence of post mortem hypostasis to seriously support the phone call! How did JB set than one up? ::)
You came to this conclusion from grainy pictures on the internet although you pretend to have access to actual crime scene pictures ::). So in your words - PROVE IT!
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Why would JB have needed to have carried a box of loose bullets into the bedroom ? Then leave the box there ? In a pocket I could understand-------but a box ?
sorry lookout i dont understand your point
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You came to this conclusion from grainy pictures on the internet although you pretend to have access to actual crime scene pictures ::). So in your words - PROVE IT!
Caroline.....David's got selective memory just like Jeremy Bamber.....the times we've said that hypostasis was present in the photo's... but he can't remember that! :)) :))
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sorry lookout i dont understand your point
An empty bullet box/container was found in the bedroom. CC says so in his book. ( I think it was CC anyway )
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Why would JB have needed to have carried a box of loose bullets into the bedroom ? Then leave the box there ? In a pocket I could understand-------but a box ?
i like some other guilters,believe he was wearing an ammo belt with pouch ;)
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An empty bullet box/container was found in the bedroom. CC says so in his book. ( I think it was CC anyway )
is there a photo of it in crime scene photos or a statement from soco
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is there a photo of it in crime scene photos or a statement from soco
There was no box found in the bedroom Sami.
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Both the sights and silencer had been removed by JB that night before he put the rifle on the settle. The sights are a fiddly thing to attach and has to be done with a screwdriver,so that job wouldn't have been attempted.
Why would Bamber remove the silencer before going outside to shoot rabbits ? It's supposed to have the silencer on for shooting rabbitts.
Or are you saying he went outside with the silencer attached, then took it off and put the silencer away when arriving back inside. However still left the rifle out in the kitchen? Again why bother doing this, as the rifle still fitted in the gun cupboard with the silencer attached.
Is this what Bamber told you ? He didn't tell the police this. Otherwise please provide a source.
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i like some other guilters,believe he was wearing an ammo belt with pouch ;)
I don't believe Bamber carried bullets with him.
He would have believed he could at the least negate them all with the 11 bullets inside the rifle. Which would give him plenty of time to go downstairs and reload if he needed to.
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I wonder why it was thought necessary to attach a silencer to a weapon to shoot bunnies so close to the house they could be seen. Would they not have scattered as soon as they sensed/heard someone coming towards them ?
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An empty bullet box/container was found in the bedroom. CC says so in his book. ( I think it was CC anyway )
Going back to April last year,I'd mentioned about an empty bullet " container ",which in CC's book was described as an empty ten round ammunition case,which was found nearby and not on Sheila's body.
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I don't believe Bamber carried bullets with him.
He would have believed he could at the least negate them all with the 11 bullets inside the rifle. Which would give him plenty of time to go downstairs and reload if he needed to.
yes well pointed out adam.i will change my stance on this.cause your theory sounds right.if he planned on catching them all asleep than in his mind 11 bullets would be enough.
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was there an unspent bullet found in the master bedroom .ive looked everywhere but cant find a reference to it anywhere.
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IF a silencer had been used,and with the ferocity that the rifle was fired with there'd have been a certain amount of water contained within it--------for obvious reasons. Would this have been known at the time ?
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Caroline.....David's got selective memory just like Jeremy Bamber.....the times we've said that hypostasis was present in the photo's... but he can't remember that! :)) :))
I do recall you saying its present, The problem is the photos refute your claims that it is present. Why do you think Caroline has tried to find reasons for it not being present? The best she can do now is complain about the quality of the photos ::)
Even Steve_uk has conceded to the fact there are overlooked anomalies that need answers in the photos.
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I do recall you saying its present, The problem is the photos refute your claims that it is present. Why do you think Caroline has tried to find reasons for it not being present? The best she can do now is complain about the quality of the photos ::)
Even Steve_uk has conceded there are overlooked anomalies that need answers in the photos.
It IS present in Sheila, it's the EXTENT to which it is present in both Sheila and June that is questionable and your CLAIM that it is more pronounced in June! It is YOUR CLAIM I refute not that it isn't present in June and Sheila!
In order to TRY and bolster you notion, you claim to have access to official crime scene pictures. Pictures you can't post because you suggest that it would affect the 'trust relationship' you have with Jeremy's legal team. I would imagine you mentioning you have such access in the first place on an open forum would damage any such relationship but that hasn't bothered you.I don't believe that you have such photo's and that you basing your argument on a poor quality photograph on June with a high red tone
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I do recall you saying its present, The problem is the photos refute your claims that it is present. Why do you think Caroline has tried to find reasons for it not being present? The best she can do now is complain about the quality of the photos ::)
Even Steve_uk has conceded to the fact there are overlooked anomalies that need answers in the photos.
I'm not looking for reasons for it NOT being present - what are you talking about? I said it was present but that it's not the be all and end all in determining time of death! Post the proof you SAY you have or admit you're just basing it on the forum pictures!
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Similar to Mike passing his picture of Sheila on the bed to legal advisors, and not putting them on here, I am sure David is seeking legal advice on his original crime scene photos he has briiliantly obtained.
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yes well pointed out adam.i will change my stance on this.cause your theory sounds right.if he planned on catching them all asleep than in his mind 11 bullets would be enough.
If shooting two head bullets into the twins, then 8 head bullets into Neville and June, that should have been sufficient.
There would only be one bullet left, but his aim was to kill Sheila with one bullet.
So no need to carry extra bullets with him.
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I'm not looking for reasons for it NOT being present - what are you talking about? I said it was present but that it's not the be all and end all in determining time of death! Post the proof you SAY you have or admit you're just basing it on the forum pictures!
I've never denied basing it on forum pictures. I used forum pictures in my explanations for all to see.
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It IS present in Sheila, it's the EXTENT to which it is present in both Sheila and June that is questionable and your CLAIM that it is more pronounced in June! It is YOUR CLAIM I refute not that it isn't present in June and Sheila!
In order to TRY and bolster you notion, you claim to have access to official crime scene pictures. Pictures you can't post because you suggest that it would affect the 'trust relationship' you have with Jeremy's legal team. I would imagine you mentioning you have such access in the first place on an open forum would damage any such relationship but that hasn't bothered you.I don't believe that you have such photo's and that you basing your argument on a poor quality photograph on June with a high red tone
I don't believe that you don't believe me. I think your just trying to get me to post something so you can have a glimpse :P
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Telescopic sights would have been pretty useless at that time of night.
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I don't believe that you don't believe me. I think your just trying to get me to post something so you can have a glimpse :P
You won't post the pictures because you don't have them. If you did and you were worried about braking a confidence with Jeremy and his legal team, why would you say that they had given you them in the first place? You have no proof for your claims so you make up a story about having something the rest of us don't. It's just like Mike with the picture of Sheila on the bed.
I don't want you to send them to me, I want you to post them here so we can ALL see them - however, you can't post what you don't have!
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Telescopic sights would have been pretty useless at that time of night.
Ok but why remove them when The Anschutz rifle at WHF required zeroing whenever the sights were reattached to the rifle.
how big a job would this be? Did they have to be removed to clean the rifle?
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You won't post the pictures because you don't have them. If you did and you were worried about braking a confidence with Jeremy and his legal team, why would you say that they had given you them in the first place? You have no proof for your claims so you make up a story about having something the rest of us don't. It's just like Mike with the picture of Sheila on the bed.
I don't want you to send them to me, I want you to post them here so we can ALL see them - however, you can't post what you don't have!
I am not going to post things on a public internet forum when I have promised not to disclose it. I don't care if some unhinged woman thinks I am lying. 8)
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I am not going to post things on a public internet forum when I have promised not to disclose it. I don't care if some unhinged woman thinks I am lying. 8)
How did you get the original photos ?
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I am not going to post things on a public internet forum when I have promised not to disclose it. I don't care if some unhinged woman thinks I am lying. 8)
most forum members will disagree with you.caroline is not unhinged in any way.'its all in your head david' ;D
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I am not going to post things on a public internet forum when I have promised not to disclose it. I don't care if some unhinged woman thinks I am lying. 8)
Do you know what David....... I'm not bothered if you don't post anything!... because I believe JB is 'guilty'!
Just because you say you've sent JB your ideas and received a reply you think that means he believes your every word! JB is hardly going to say......forget it!...he needs all the support he can get!
I'm easy that you think JB is innocent...everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I was prepared to listen to your opinions, but not any more. By you thinking someone is 'unhinged' just because she doesn't agree with you proves you can't be taken seriously. IF you have any photo's keep them safe because it's gonna be a long time before they see the light of day in any Court!
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I am not going to post things on a public internet forum when I have promised not to disclose it. I don't care if some unhinged woman thinks I am lying. 8)
But will continue to brag about it! It's you who is unhinged! Making things up because you need approval - WEIRD!
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Do you know what David....... I'm not bothered if you don't post anything!... because I believe JB is 'guilty'!
Just because you say you've sent JB your ideas and received a reply you think that means he believes your every word! JB is hardly going to say......forget it!...he needs all the support he can get!
I'm easy that you think JB is innocent...everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I was prepared to listen to your opinions, but not any more. By you thinking someone is 'unhinged' just because she doesn't agree with you proves you can't be taken seriously. IF you have any photo's keep them safe because it's gonna be a long time before they see the light of day in any Court!
Thank you Romeo.
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most forum members will disagree with you.caroline is not unhinged in any way.'its all in your head david' ;D
Thank you Sami - least I don't have to make thing up in order to TRY and prove a point! 8)
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Do you know what David....... I'm not bothered if you don't post anything!... because I believe JB is 'guilty'!
Just because you say you've sent JB your ideas and received a reply you think that means he believes your every word! JB is hardly going to say......forget it!...he needs all the support he can get!
I'm easy that you think JB is innocent...everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I was prepared to listen to your opinions, but not any more. By you thinking someone is 'unhinged' just because she doesn't agree with you proves you can't be taken seriously. IF you have any photo's keep them safe because it's gonna be a long time before they see the light of day in any Court!
Great post Romeo, when people resort to name calling it means and shows they have lost the argument. Since David wrote to Bamber he has changed, he must think that they are best buddy's now, he seems to be defending him more passionate now?
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Do you know what David....... I'm not bothered if you don't post anything!... because I believe JB is 'guilty'!
Just because you say you've sent JB your ideas and received a reply you think that means he believes your every word! JB is hardly going to say......forget it!...he needs all the support he can get!
I'm easy that you think JB is innocent...everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I was prepared to listen to your opinions, but not any more. By you thinking someone is 'unhinged' just because she doesn't agree with you proves you can't be taken seriously. IF you have any photo's keep them safe because it's gonna be a long time before they see the light of day in any Court!
Brilliant post, Romeo!!! Interesting that he makes use of "unhinged" when the only useful thing he has in his arsenal appears to be a library of silly pictures which he trolls out ad nauseum.
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Brilliant post, Romeo!!! Interesting that he makes use of "unhinged" when the only useful thing he has in his arsenal appears to be a library of silly pictures which he trolls out ad nauseum.
TROLLS is right. He doesn't need anyone to blacken his character, he's doing a pretty good self assassination by all the weird behaviour!
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I personally wouldn't worry folks,as me and my" telepathic abilities " just sees an immature person who doesn't know the meaning of diplomacy and he certainly wouldn't pass any exam if it involved any Intelligence organisation.
" Don't tell him your name, Pike ". ::)
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If shooting two head bullets into the twins, then 8 head bullets into Neville and June, that should have been sufficient.
There would only be one bullet left, but his aim was to kill Sheila with one bullet.
So no need to carry extra bullets with him.
yes ive changed my stance now ,thanks adam.its the best thing about the forum you can come here with one theory and believe it until someone comes out with a theory that sounds more likely than your own.its a learning process for me :)
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yes ive changed my stance now ,thanks adam.its the best thing about the forum you can come here with one theory and believe it until someone comes out with a theory that sounds more likely than your own.its a learning process for me :)
It's good when people assist each other on here. From either side.
Supporters recently assisted me in believing that perhaps Bamber did shoot two bullets into the twins first.
However the recent threads on Sheila's accomplice, Bamber entering WHF through Neville and Junes small upstairs bedroom window, Bamber not 'lobbing Julie overboard' and RWB putting his own blood into the silencer, have not made me change my guilty stance.
I await Trudie's next vlog.
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Brilliant post, Romeo!!! Interesting that he makes use of "unhinged" when the only useful thing he has in his arsenal appears to be a library of silly pictures which he trolls out ad nauseum.
Silly pictures? How about photographic evidence of the man's innocence? Very useful if you ask me. The only thing in your arsenal is denial.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/71tg0m.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/w7aeq.jpg)
(https://s18.postimg.org/rixfgfw6x/lmpicture.jpg)
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Silly pictures? How about photographic evidence of the man's innocence? Very useful if you ask me. The only thing in your arsenal is denial.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/71tg0m.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/w7aeq.jpg)
But I have no desire to promote myself or my achievements at the expense of others. There appears to be no depths to which you won't sink to achieve your aim.
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Silly pictures? How about photographic evidence of the man's innocence? Very useful if you ask me. The only thing in your arsenal is denial.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/71tg0m.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/w7aeq.jpg)
(https://s18.postimg.org/rixfgfw6x/lmpicture.jpg)
Not this again! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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But I have no desire to promote myself or my achievements at the expense of others. There appears to be no depths to which you won't sink to achieve your aim.
Can't see any official crime scene pics here - just the grainy pictures in the archives. Particularly bad picture of June! You can't determine what the marks on her legs are because of the high red content, could be blood from her wounds shadow or lividity but because the picture is distorted, even if it was lividity, you can't determine the extent due to picture quality.
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Not this again! :o :o :o
Sorry Caroline. but yes this again. I know its very inconvenient for you
(http://america.pink/images/1/0/3/4/7/4/3/en/2-cognitive-dissonance.jpg)
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Sorry Caroline. but yes this again. I know its very inconvenient for you
Inconvenient? I laugh every time you post it. Is there no end to your claims?
Forensic expert
Psychology expert
Mortician
Ballistics expert
Trusted member of the legal team
Expert bullshitter!
Only one of these is true, I wonder if the other members can guess which one?
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This is what you're doing but you seem to have a need to project!
(http://america.pink/images/1/0/3/4/7/4/3/en/2-cognitive-dissonance.jpg)
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Sorry Caroline. but yes this again. I know its very inconvenient for you
(http://america.pink/images/1/0/3/4/7/4/3/en/2-cognitive-dissonance.jpg)
Be interesting to watch just how much further you're able to project.
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But I have no desire to promote myself or my achievements at the expense of others. There appears to be no depths to which you won't sink to achieve your aim.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpdC0jtWEAAZzDp.jpg)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpdC0jtWEAAZzDp.jpg)
You're projecting ...............AGAIN
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Inconvenient? I laugh every time you post it. Is there no end to your claims?
Forensic expert
Psychology expert
Mortician
Ballistics expert
Trusted member of the legal team
Expert bullshitter!
Only one of these is true, I wonder if the other members can guess which one?
is it number 6 caroline :)) :)) :))
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You're projecting ...............AGAIN
No Jane.
I put forward a premise followed by an array of evidence to support it. Instead of challenging what I put forward, you resorted to attacking and smearing my character with the BS Caroline tells you.
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No Jane.
I put forward a premise followed by an array of evidence to support it. Instead of challenging what I put forward, you resorted to attacking and smearing my character with the BS Caroline tells you.
Yes, David, I'm rather afraid you are..................even down to accusing others of BS. The minutiae of your posts isn't of the slightest interest to me -I'm far more interested in the mind set of of someone who uses other peoples' work and claims credit for themselves. Your wish for me to challenge it I simply see as an attempt to deflect.
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No Jane.
I put forward a premise followed by an array of evidence to support it. Instead of challenging what I put forward, you resorted to attacking and smearing my character with the BS Caroline tells you.
You have posted the same thing over and over again. When you were challenged you didn't like it and claimed that you were given crime scene pictures which prove your point. You have failed to back up your claims so the smell BS is steaming in your corner.
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You have posted the same thing over and over again. When you were challenged you didn't like it and claimed that you were given crime scene pictures which prove your point. You have failed to back up your claims so the smell BS is steaming in your corner.
As I see it, Caroline, NONE of this would have occurred had David resisted the urge to gloat about 'HIS' find. Whatever it is he believes himself to have found appears to have become embellished out of recognition, now reaching -and being supported by- the higher echelons. He's willing to brag about this whilst refusing to post what he believes he's discovered. Sadly the more he pushes the story that 'those in high places' are interested in 'his' work, taunting us with the story that he's been advised not to reveal it in case the opposition get hold of it, the less likely he is to be believed.
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As I see it, Caroline, NONE of this would have occurred had David resisted the urge to gloat about 'HIS' find. Whatever it is he believes himself to have found appears to have become embellished out of recognition, now reaching -and being supported by- the higher echelons. He's willing to brag about this whilst refusing to post what he believes he's discovered. Sadly the more he pushes the story that 'those in high places' are interested in 'his' work, taunting us with the story that he's been advised not to reveal it in case the opposition get hold of it, the less likely he is to be believed.
David didn't realise that someone would guess the gist of his 'forensic breakthrough' and thought he'd play the big I am and like you say 'taunt' various posters. The irony is, had he not done that to me, I wouldn't have guessed what it entailed. However, had he really been told not to reveal 'his' find, he wouldn't have mentioned it at all. I imagine the legal team wouldn't be too happy with the way this has played out. The drama of asking NGB to post on his behalf instead of just keeping quiet. He said he announced it to we could debate? Debate what? Given that he wasn't going to reveal what the report entailed, the only thing that could be debated is David's favourite subject - HIMSELF!
Since then, every opinion, assumption or idea he has, he treats as fact and we're 'unhinged' if we dare to question his posts. He knows the forum pictures are of poor quality and can't back up his claim that June was in a more developed stage of hypostasis so he decided to suggest that the legal team have given him official crime scene pictures, but once again, he can't reveal them. How convenient and coincidental. David doesn't believe in coincidences - well, when they involve David - NEITHER DO I!
Why would Jeremy's lawyers give David official crime scene pictures? This isn't a game to them!
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Goodness me,he must be gloating all the more at the attention he's getting------just ignore him,he'll soon quieten down ::) People like that don't bother me,they're just sad and childish.
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David didn't realise that someone would guess the gist of his 'forensic breakthrough' and thought he'd play the big I am and like you say 'taunt' various posters. The irony is, had he not done that to me, I wouldn't have guessed what it entailed.
Yes Caroline, you really worked it all out! got the nail right on the head you did ::)
"You have confirmed you have stolen my research by not denying it, if this wasn't what you are claiming to be NEW evidence, you would have said so - you're BUSTED David and no amount of ranting can take away from that. Whatever you think of PH, there is a DETAILED account of MY research printed on pages 174-5. So you have found NOTHING"
"You took someone else's idea, passed it off as your own and have probably added your own slant but basically you have claimed it for you own - the WHOLE THING! -
(https://media.giphy.com/media/jVWd3jz8iisUM/giphy.gif)
The drama of asking NGB to post on his behalf instead of just keeping quiet. He said he announced it to we could debate? Debate what? !
The only drama was you turning into one. had I realised how unhinged some members on here are, I would have said nothing.
It was agreed that it would spur more life into the forum, and that it has
Why would Jeremy's lawyers give David official crime scene pictures? This isn't a game to them!
Why have you assumed I got them from lawyers? I think your bacon detector has got it wrong again
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Goodness me,he must be gloating all the more at the attention he's getting------just ignore him,he'll soon quieten down ::) People like that don't bother me,they're just sad and childish.
well said lookout :)
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You have posted the same thing over and over again. When you were challenged you didn't like it and claimed that you were given crime scene pictures which prove your point. You have failed to back up your claims so the smell BS is steaming in your corner.
What challenge? You realised there was no developed post mortem hypostasis in Sheila, So you then tried to find a reason for it other than her being dead for under three hours, Since that failed miserably all you can do now come up with a pathetic excuse about the picture quality.
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What challenge? You realised there was no developed post mortem hypostasis in Sheila, So you then tried to find a reason for it other than her being dead for under three hours, Since that failed miserably all you can do now come up with a pathetic excuse about the picture quality.
Nothing of the sort, Sheila has hypostasis and you can see it on her face . the picture quality is rubbish and you know it, which is why you invented having access to official crime scene pictures - pathetic!
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Yes Caroline, you really worked it all out! got the nail right on the head you did ::)
"You have confirmed you have stolen my research by not denying it, if this wasn't what you are claiming to be NEW evidence, you would have said so - you're BUSTED David and no amount of ranting can take away from that. Whatever you think of PH, there is a DETAILED account of MY research printed on pages 174-5. So you have found NOTHING"
"You took someone else's idea, passed it off as your own and have probably added your own slant but basically you have claimed it for you own - the WHOLE THING! -
(https://media.giphy.com/media/jVWd3jz8iisUM/giphy.gif)
The only drama was you turning into one. had I realised how unhinged some members on here are, I would have said nothing.
It was agreed that it would spur more life into the forum, and that it has
Why have you assumed I got them from lawyers? I think your bacon detector has got it wrong again
Ha, ha! You must have felt sick when I guess it was about the hand print.
Spur life into the forum? Don't make me laugh ;D ;D ;D ;D! How would it if you couldn't discuss the contents? You wanted it to be all about you!!
Oh, I see 'they' won't trust you any more if you reveal the crime scene pictures. I guess 'they' don't read this forum to see you drop hints about whoever 'they' are. You only mentioned having 'special pictures' because you know the forum pictures show squat!
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Goodness me,he must be gloating all the more at the attention he's getting------just ignore him,he'll soon quieten down ::) People like that don't bother me,they're just sad and childish.
You are of course right Lookout ;D
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if any blooded print is found than it must first be proved it belongs to sheila.even if it is hers that will not automatically free jb,it will be put down as a mistake made by the doctor when saying no blood was on her palms,much like the shadow at the window the mistake in the timings of the calls.so nothing to get excited about ;D i must add it wouldnt be hard for jb to place sheila's hand on the bible if it is hers
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Nothing of the sort, Sheila has hypostasis and you can see it on her face . the picture quality is rubbish and you know it, which is why you invented having access to official crime scene pictures - pathetic!
Yes Caroline I agree that Sheila has got hypostasis! That's why David only shows the 'legs' of Sheila and NOT her right arm/shoulder where you can clearly see hypostasis
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And her face! Oh and perhaps David has forgotten so I'll say it again...... Sheila falling onto her front when shot could be the reason Hypostasis set in where it is....it could also be the fact that she was moved after death therefore distributing hypostasis to different parts of her body.
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And her face! Oh and perhaps David has forgotten so I'll say it again...... Sheila falling onto her front when shot could be the reason Hypostasis set in where it is....it could also be the fact that she was moved after death therefore distributing hypostasis to different parts of her body.
yes romeo it can clearly be seen :)
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And her face! Oh and perhaps David has forgotten so I'll say it again...... Sheila falling onto her front when shot could be the reason Hypostasis set in where it is....it could also be the fact that she was moved after death therefore distributing hypostasis to different parts of her body.
Once again you ignore the blood stains evidence that shows she sat down sitting up while she was shot. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough last time.
"Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back."
And you say I have selective memory ???
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is it the same dr vanezis who said her hands were free of blood yet you claim a blooded print of sheila's was on the bible.if yes. than you only quote him when it suits you and your theorys
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Yes Caroline I agree that Sheila has go thypostasis ! That's why David only shows the 'legs' of Sheila and NOT her right arm/shoulder where you can clearly see hypostasis
You mean her left arm. That's not thypostasis, it does not move upwards it moves downwards via gravity. Besides only her lower right arm is visible and you can see its only barely beginning. Had she been dead for over 7 hours (which is necessary the for JB to be guilty) the thypostasis process would be complete like it is in June Bamber and those other examples I posted.
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is it the same dr vanezis who said her hands were free of blood yet you claim a blooded print of sheila's was on the bible.if yes. than you only quote him when it suits you and your theorys
In Vanezis original autopsy notes he writes that her hands are contaminated with blood.
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Once again you ignore the blood stains evidence that shows she sat down sitting up while she was shot. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough last time.
"Dr Vanezis gave evidence that the nature of the blood stains to the nightdress suggested that Sheila Caffell was sitting up when she received both injuries. After the second injury she would have immediately fallen back."
Thanks for making that so clear David..... just what I wanted! ! If you look back on my posts you'll see I agree that Sheila was sitting as stated in reports, although some reports state she was HALF sitting on her side! Of course she fall after receiving the shots to her neck, but if she had fell straight back the blood from her neck would have covered the whole front of her chest and nightdress....but it didn't because she fall on her side! Even her nightdress has ridden up at the back when her legs were straightened.....
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In Vanezis original autopsy notes he writes that her hands are contaminated with blood.
This doesn't necessarily mean anything. She could have involuntarily moved her fingers to her throat after Jeremy shot her the first time. I thought the Defence's case anyway was that Sheila had ritualistically washed after the four murders.
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This doesn't necessarily mean anything. She could have involuntarily moved her fingers to her throat after Jeremy shot her the first time. I thought the Defence's case anyway was that Sheila had ritualistically washed after the four murders.
No she cant because if she touched her neck would there would be a huge smear of blood there
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You mean her left arm. That's not thypostasis, it does not move upwards it moves downwards via gravity. Besides only her lower right arm is visible and you can see its only barely beginning. Had she been dead for over 7 hours (which is necessary the for JB to be guilty) the thypostasis process would be complete like it is in June Bamber and those other examples I posted.
Actually your correct David, it's not just her right arm but also her left arm as well ( in the attachment I put up ) Thanks for pointing that out!
Regarding Hypostasis...we've been through this before.....I know it moves downwards...( sheila's shoulders and one side of her face were on the floor until turned over.... but checkout what happens if the body is moved before hypostasis has settled! Now you well know that livor mortis can take between 6/12 hours before it reach's maximum.... Livor Moris and hypostasis ...same thing.
By the way, do you know the make of the radio on the kitchen table?
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No she cant because if she touched her neck would there would be a huge smear of blood there
But there is a smear on her neck! Only you thought it was from the rifle.
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Thanks for making that so clear David..... just what I wanted! ! If you look back on my posts you'll see I agree that Sheila was sitting as stated in reports, although some reports state she was HALF sitting on her side! Of course she fall after receiving the shots to her neck, but if she had fell straight back the blood from her neck would have covered the whole front of her chest and nightdress....but it didn't because she fall on her side! Even her nightdress has ridden up at the back when her legs were straightened.....
The dress is question makes it difficult to analyse the blood patterns because the fabrics are a loose fit and will move according with body movement.
Based on the photo below. I believe as she fell back the dress began to crease distorting the blood pattern. I also speculate as her head was forced to the side when falling against the bedside table this positions her neck sideways thus allowing blood to spurt in that direction if she had not died instantly.
Had she been wearing a tight fit top like this, It would be allot easier to interpret the blood stains as the fabrics will all stay In place, if you see what I mean.
(https://kleinerts.co.uk/prodimages/wc5050-side.jpg)
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But there is a smear on her neck! Only you thought it was from the rifle.
That smear is located on the upper shot were the bullet entered her brain. She would not be able to touch that wound after its inflicted.
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You mean her left arm. That's not thypostasis, it does not move upwards it moves downwards via gravity. Besides only her lower right arm is visible and you can see its only barely beginning. Had she been dead for over 7 hours (which is necessary the for JB to be guilty) the thypostasis process would be complete like it is in June Bamber and those other examples I posted.
Actually your correct David, it's not just her right arm but also her left arm as well ( in the attachment I put up ) Thanks for pointing that out!
Regarding Hypostasis...we've been through this before.....I know it moves downwards...( sheila's shoulders and one side of her face were on the floor until turned over.... but checkout what happens if the body is moved before hypostasis has settled! Now you well know that livor mortis can take between 6/12 hours before it reach's maximum.... Livor Moris and hypostasis ...same thing.
By the way, do you know the make of the radio on the kitchen table?
I really don't understand your theory on hypostasis, But from what I understand Jeremy has to wait around a while before moving the body to get the result your thinking of :-\
The radio is a Philips 22AR0902
(http://www.doctsf.com/grandlivre/affimagev2.php?iid=39392&ity=F&iva=1)
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If Sheila was sitting up, leaning against the bedside cabinet when receiving both shots, how did her lower body then move over two feet along the floor when dead ?
Supporters have suggested the police pulled her feet.
Or maybe Mike was right and Sheila was found on the bed. But if Sheila died on the bed, how did her blood end up underneath the bible on the floor ? Supporters have again suggested the police moved the bible. But they couldn't put Sheila's blood on the carpet.
My recent thread has agreed with both supporters, guilters and experts at the 2002 appeal that Sheila was sitting up when receiving the fatal second shot. And that her legs were pulled when dead. It gives reasons why Bamber pulled them, rather than the police.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7802.msg369526.html#msg369526
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is it the same dr vanezis who said her hands were free of blood yet you claim a blooded print of sheila's was on the bible.if yes. than you only quote him when it suits you and your theorys
Pathologists should not say one thing and mean another,though it happened in the Ian Tomlinson case and the rogue who'd been acting in the interest of the police,was struck off when the family had intervened.
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yes ive changed my stance now ,thanks adam.its the best thing about the forum you can come here with one theory and believe it until someone comes out with a theory that sounds more likely than your own.its a learning process for me :)
Apart from Bamber perhaps shooting the twins first, supporters have also recently made me reconsider Bamber's WHF entrance options.
As well as the three ground floor windows, Nugs kindly highlighted that Bamber could have got into WHF by using a ladder and going through June and Neville's upstairs bedroom window. And criticised the police for not considering this is how Bamber achieved his entrance.
It's certainly another entrance option for Bamber. However this method of entrance has never been suggested before and I believe he entered through the downstairs bathroom window.
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iam not convinced the second shot straight upwards to the brain could have been made while sheila was sitting upright on the floor ,the length of the rifle would not allow it ,only if her head had been tilted back could that shot be made and the bullet take the path it did.imo
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Sheila could have been sitting,propped up against the bedside cabinet and after the first shot it would have jolted her,with the second shot following in quick succession just by a mere touch of the trigger as because it was a comparatively new rifle and a semi-automatic one it would have sent her in the position that she'd been found.
The above " could " have happened,although I don't believe it went that way. I have my own thoughts,especially as the rifle had been just placed on Sheila's body because it wouldn't have landed like it had if she'd just shot herself.
I've always wanted to know how DCI " Taff " Jones came to the conclusion that it was a murder/suicide. Just because a weapon appears on a body doesn't always mean that that person had been responsible.
I'll have to re-read about which bullet wounds were contact shots on both June and Neville.
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iam not convinced the second shot straight upwards to the brain could have been made while sheila was sitting upright on the floor ,the length of the rifle would not allow it ,only if her head had been tilted back could that shot be made and the bullet take the path it did.imo
Thats true Sami, the angle wouldn't be right the second shot for me was when she was pulled and layed flat, executed in this position to make sure, he must have been suprised how many bullets it took to kill everyone and he could not stage suicide with a large number of bullets into Sheila, it had to be 1, at the most 2.
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There is an amount of backwards force from firing a rifle and although you think you're aiming straight it doesn't necessarily say that a bullet will go straight where you want it to,unless you're a professional and this wasn't the case in this murder.
Close shots had to be because of Sheila's coordination problems or the bullets would have been all over the place,walls,ceilings,etc.
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Sheila could have been sitting,propped up against the bedside cabinet and after the first shot it would have jolted her,with the second shot following in quick succession just by a mere touch of the trigger as because it was a comparatively new rifle and a semi-automatic one it would have sent her in the position that she'd been found.
The above " could " have happened,although I don't believe it went that way. I have my own thoughts,especially as the rifle had been just placed on Sheila's body because it wouldn't have landed like it had if she'd just shot herself.
I've always wanted to know how DCI " Taff " Jones came to the conclusion that it was a murder/suicide. Just because a weapon appears on a body doesn't always mean that that person had been responsible.
I'll have to re-read about which bullet wounds were contact shots on both June and Neville.
I didn't realise Taff was in charge of the investigation right till his death. The silencer took 10 to 12 days before it came back from tests, then it was sent off again for further tests because of the blood, this then was starting to change the investigation, they were in the process of securing evidence at this stage, then Julie came forward. Taff being the senior made the assumption it was four murders and a suicide, the senior crime scene investigation took two and a half days to complete, it's not until further evidence comes and investigations and interviews can the police get a better picture, they admit that they did not examine the crime scene to the extent it should have been. They wasn't even looking for a silencer in the investigation and even if the police had found it in the gun cupboard the significance wouldn't have been recognised at the time. It's how it used to work Lookout, the officer in charge makes a judgement, then he directs a line of enquiries based on that judgement. Things changed after the Bamber investigation.
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Thats true Sami, the angle wouldn't be right the second shot for me was when she was pulled and layed flat, executed in this position to make sure, he must have been suprised how many bullets it took to kill everyone and he could not stage suicide with a large number of bullets into Sheila, it had to be 1, at the most 2.
you need to consider that once she was flat her head was at an angle by the bedside table. Had she been shot while in that position the bullet would have gone through her chin and out her upper cheekbone.
Plus had she died sitting up and remained sitting up with a neck wound until someone pulled her. I would expect there to be considerable more blood running down her night dress.
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Thats true Sami, the angle wouldn't be right the second shot for me was when she was pulled and layed flat, executed in this position to make sure, he must have been suprised how many bullets it took to kill everyone and he could not stage suicide with a large number of bullets into Sheila, it had to be 1, at the most 2.
totally agree my thoughts exactly justice. ;)
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Sheila could have been sitting,propped up against the bedside cabinet and after the first shot it would have jolted her,with the second shot following in quick succession just by a mere touch of the trigger as because it was a comparatively new rifle and a semi-automatic one it would have sent her in the position that she'd been found.
The above " could " have happened,although I don't believe it went that way. I have my own thoughts,especially as the rifle had been just placed on Sheila's body because it wouldn't have landed like it had if she'd just shot herself.
I've always wanted to know how DCI " Taff " Jones came to the conclusion that it was a murder/suicide. Just because a weapon appears on a body doesn't always mean that that person had been responsible.
I'll have to re-read about which bullet wounds were contact shots on both June and Neville.
yes good post lookout.did he ever write .or tell any one to explain why he was so adamant if she had been sat up with her back against the cabinet while fireing both shots her body would not have been found face up and a lot closer to the wall.i do remember you saying you thought the first shot was fired by someone else
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you need to consider that once she was flat her head was at an angle by the bedside table. Had she been shot while in that position the bullet would have gone through her chin and out her upper cheekbone.
Plus had she died sitting up and remained sitting up with a neck wound until someone pulled her. I would expect there to be considerable more blood running down her night dress.
He could have pulled her down straight after shooting her, 1st time?
The second shot had to be his last David, he lined the rifle up accordingly he didn't need the head straight, doesn't matter how the head is positioned it's the positioning of the rifle, probably turning the rifle upside down, ejecting the shell cases one to left and one to right?
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Apart from Bamber perhaps shooting the twins first, supporters have also recently made me reconsider Bamber's WHF entrance options.
As well as the three ground floor windows, Nugs kindly highlighted that Bamber could have got into WHF by using a ladder and going through June and Neville's upstairs bedroom window. And criticised the police for not considering this is how Bamber achieved his entrance.
It's certainly another entrance option for Bamber. However this method of entrance has never been suggested before and I believe he entered through the downstairs bathroom window.
well if he's going to get a ladder than we may also have to consider the chimney as an entrie point :)
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I really don't understand your theory on hypostasis, But from what I understand Jeremy has to wait around a while before moving the body to get the result your thinking of :-\
The radio is a Philips 22AR0902
(http://www.doctsf.com/grandlivre/affimagev2.php?iid=39392&ity=F&iva=1)
David, you know as well as I do that hypostasis can start shortly after death.....and last as long as 6/12 hours, JB would not need to wait around! Actually it could even point to Sheila not being the last one killed, JB could have had other family to kill like the final shots to his mother!
Thank you for the photo of the radio.....I couldn't find it anywhere.
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well if he's going to get a ladder than we may also have to consider the chimney as an entrie point :)
If Father Christmas can do it....
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David, you know as well as I do that hypostasis can start shortly after death.....and last as long as 6/12 hours, JB would not need to wait around! Actually it could even point to Sheila not being the last one killed, JB could have had other family to kill like the final shots to his mother!
Thank you for the photo of the radio.....I couldn't find it anywhere.
(http://image.slidesharecdn.com/pmi-140425060727-phpapp01/95/post-mortem-interval-7-638.jpg?cb=1398406233)
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Livor Mortis....