Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: buddy on July 29, 2016, 05:37:PM
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It is generally agreed that the twins were the first to be shot, because Nicholas was still sucking his thumb.
Why would Nicholas be the first, when the biggest threat to any murderer would be Neville
The twins would have been easy to overpower. It makes no sense to kill the kids first.
A deranged Sheila is more likely IMO.
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It is generally agreed that the twins were the first to be shot, because Nicholas was still sucking his thumb.
Why would Nicholas be the first, when the biggest threat to any murderer would be Neville
The twins would have been easy to overpower. It makes no sense to kill the kids first.
A deranged Sheila is more likely IMO.
OR, the whole idea being to make it look as if a deranged Sheila had done it, it was arranged as if she had.
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It's not agreed at all.
What's thumb sucking got to do with it ?
Me and Scipio believe they were shot last. David believes Bamber shot each twin once and then went straight to the main bedroom, which is also possible.
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There is no reason why the twins or Sheila would wake, if shot last They were all asleep in a large house with their doors shut.
People try to magnify the noise a pretty silent and quiet multiple execution would make.
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OR, the whole idea being to make it look as if a deranged Sheila had done it, it was arranged as if she had.
Do you really think that Jeremy would have thought of that on a murderous rampage Jane?
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There is no reason why the twins or Sheila would wake, if shot last They were all asleep in a large house with their doors shut.
People try to magnify the noise a pretty silent and quite multiple execution would make.
Shouting and screaming and not hear.
I will not answer any more of your posts Adam You are corrupt.
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Do you really think that Jeremy would have thought of that on a murderous rampage Jane?
Oh, I think he had it all planned down to what he believed to be the last detail, Buddy. He HAD to convince the police of Sheila's guilt.
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Shouting and screaming and not hear.
I will not answer any more of your posts Adam You are corrupt.
............ and with little understanding of ANYONE'S behaviours if they don't emulate his own.
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Oh, I think he had it all planned down to what he believed to be the last detail, Buddy. He HAD to convince the police of Sheila's guilt.
But he could have shot them last Jane, and still have convinced the police.
They never looked at the order of death.
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Do you really think that Jeremy would have thought of that on a murderous rampage Jane?
this is one of those questions i find hard to get my head around. I cant accept that jb showed such signs ofbeing such a monster to kill two sleeping little boys.
Sadly ican see sc doing it in her deranged and physchotic state.
if jb wanted the money he was clever enough tofind another way of syphoning off some without having to murder his whole family.it was obvious he could get pretty much whatever he wanted anyway so to me he has to be a mad man to do what he is in prison for.
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Shouting and screaming and not hear.
I will not answer any more of your posts Adam You are corrupt.
There you go again, trying to magnify the noise.
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But he could have shot them last Jane, and still have convinced the police.
They never looked at the order of death.
No, I don't believe they did, but you have to bear in mind that once his plan was formulated, he'd have had to carry it out to the letter. He wasn't to know that OoD wouldn't be detected.
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No, I don't believe they did, but you have to bear in mind that once his plan was formulated, he'd have had to carry it out to the letter. He wasn't to know that OoD wouldn't be detected.
Speculation on both our parts Jane, But common sense tells me Neville was the main danger.
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Buddy has hinted she is ready to give an explanation of how Sheila committed the massacre.
Or is this thread just a snippet to try to show Sheila did it.
I did ask Buddy a few days ago to provide a breakdown of how Sheila did it. As Bamber's minor obstacles were being magnified again. I got no response.
Buddy, I'm all eyes.
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this is one of those questions i find hard to get my head around. I cant accept that jb showed such signs ofbeing such a monster to kill two sleeping little boys.
Sadly ican see sc doing it in her deranged and physchotic state.
if jb wanted the money he was clever enough tofind another way of syphoning off some without having to murder his whole family.it was obvious he could get pretty much whatever he wanted anyway so to me he has to be a mad man to do what he is in prison for.
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I'm with you there,notsure.
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Speculation on both our parts Jane, But common sense tells me Neville was the main danger.
I concur. However, none of us knows -although Adam insists that he does- the exact sequence of events. Should Nevill have been downstairs and should Jeremy have been staying overnight, it rather shifts what we may first have believed.
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I concur. However, none of us knows -although Adam insists that he does- the exact sequence of events. Should Nevill have been downstairs and should Jeremy have been staying overnight, it rather shifts what we may first have believed.
I don't know what happened.
If I was Bamber I would have gone straight to the main bedroom. Neville was a very big man.
Although David said Bamber shot the twins once each and then went to the main bedroom with 9 bullets. Which I wouldn't do.
Bamber could always fire 9 bullets into Neville and June, then go and fire one bullet each into the twins. If he felt they were such a threat and needed to be negated so instantly.
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this is one of those questions i find hard to get my head around. I cant accept that jb showed such signs ofbeing such a monster to kill two sleeping little boys.
Sadly ican see sc doing it in her deranged and physchotic state.
if jb wanted the money he was clever enough tofind another way of syphoning off some without having to murder his whole family.it was obvious he could get pretty much whatever he wanted anyway so to me he has to be a mad man to do what he is in prison for.
As I previously said, Notsure, psychopaths don't have their condition stapled to their brows. He couldn't have siphoned off enough money, in one hit, to satisfy his needs, and I believe he wanted to free himself from the farm.
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this is one of those questions i find hard to get my head around. I cant accept that jb showed such signs ofbeing such a monster to kill two sleeping little boys.
Sadly ican see sc doing it in her deranged and physchotic state.
if jb wanted the money he was clever enough tofind another way of syphoning off some without having to murder his whole family.it was obvious he could get pretty much whatever he wanted anyway so to me he has to be a mad man to do what he is in prison for.
No, just a psychopath without conscience.
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Buddy has gone silent again, on his/her own thread. After my reply, 13.
This also happened a few days earlier when I asked for an explanation of how Sheila committed the massacre. Which is strange as at the time Buddy was more than happy to give explanations of alledged massacre difficulties for Bamber.
Then yesterday created this thread claiming the twins were shot first, showing Sheila was the culprit. But has again not given an explanation of how Sheila committed the massacre, after my (second) request.
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It is generally agreed that the twins were the first to be shot, because Nicholas was still sucking his thumb.
Why would Nicholas be the first, when the biggest threat to any murderer would be Neville
The twins would have been easy to overpower. It makes no sense to kill the kids first.
A deranged Sheila is more likely IMO.
The twins being shot first point to Sheila being responsible.
The bloodstains on Sheila's nightdress show she was sitting up when the fatal shots were fired. Combined with the trajectory of the bullets showing the gun was being held with the rifle to the neck and the stock between her legs. Entirely consistent with suicide
Of course you can argue Jeremy shot the twins first that is plausible, however you will also have to also argue that Jeremy gave Sheila the rifle and ordered her to shoot herself. That don't seem credible at all.
Then you have four elements of the case that Jeremy cannot orchestrate
1. The foster care issue.
2. Her illness was centred on her children
3. Sheila was menstruating during massacre.
4. Sheila's antipsychotic medication was reduced by half shortly before the massacre.
All this combined points to a psychotic episode creating the belief in her disturbed mind that killing her children and then herself, was the most appropriate means by which the problems could be resolved.
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No one knows who was shot first or last. Buddy's reason yesterday that one of the twins was sucking his thumb has been dismissed.
Yes Sheila was sitting up when shot. Experts in the 2002 appeal said Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot. Thread created. Lookout disagreed this again shows Bamber as 100% guilty. Saying it was 'my leg being pulled'.
Bamber didn't order Sheila to shoot herself. He shot her before she had a clue what was happening.
Sheila menstrating during the massacre ? That is a new reason to kill you're family.
If Sheila shot the twins first, what was Neville doing at this time ?
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The twins being shot first point to Sheila being responsible.
The bloodstains on Sheila's nightdress show she was sitting up when the fatal shots were fired. Combined with the trajectory of the bullets showing the gun was being held with the rifle to the neck and the stock between her legs. Entirely consistent with suicide
Of course you can argue Jeremy shot the twins first that is plausible, however you will also have to also argue that Jeremy gave Sheila the rifle and ordered her to shoot herself. That don't seem credible at all.
Then you have four elements of the case that Jeremy cannot orchestrate
1. The foster care issue.
2. Her illness was centred on her children
3. Sheila was menstruating during massacre.
4. Sheila's antipsychotic medication was reduced by half shortly before the massacre.
All this combined points to a psychotic episode creating the belief in her disturbed mind that killing her children and then herself, was the most appropriate means by which the problems could be resolved.
I know that the rifle wasn't a particularly high-powered one,but what would have been the chances of someone unaccustomed to using it getting a certain amount of a " pull-back " on using it ?
What I mean is that if an aim was taken directly,would the rifle have dipped ? ( as in June's legs )
I'm trying to get a picture of the shootings because being closer shots to them they couldn't be missed,especially one between the eyes,yet it didn't show a contact shot,or did it ? ( perish that thought,makes me feel sick )
Then there was the " accurate " shot between June's eyes,which I would imagine,requires a steady hand/aim. Yet with Neville and June,the shots were haphazard. It's like the" work " of two people-------------not including Jeremy.
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I know that the rifle wasn't a particularly high-powered one,but what would have been the chances of someone unaccustomed to using it getting a certain amount of a " pull-back " on using it ?
What I mean is that if an aim was taken directly,would the rifle have dipped ? ( as in June's legs )
I'm trying to get a picture of the shootings because being closer shots to them they couldn't be missed,especially one between the eyes,yet it didn't show a contact shot,or did it ? ( perish that thought,makes me feel sick )
Then there was the " accurate " shot between June's eyes,which I would imagine,requires a steady hand/aim. Yet with Neville and June,the shots were haphazard. It's like the" work " of two people-------------not including Jeremy.
I think we may assume that, whilst Nevill was moving, none of the others were -at least, not in the same way. It may have been that the shots to June's head area were hoped to be fatal and the shot to her legs, when this proved not to be the case, were to prevent further movement. By the time the fatal shot was delivered, I imagine that it would have been impossible for June to make any movement.
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No one knows who was shot first or last. Buddy's reason yesterday that one of the twins was sucking his thumb has been dismissed.
Yes Sheila was sitting up when shot. Experts in the 2002 appeal said Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot. Thread created. Lookout disagreed this again shows Bamber as 100% guilty. Saying it was 'my leg being pulled'.
Bamber didn't order Sheila to shoot herself. He shot her before she had a clue what was happening.
Sheila menstrating during the massacre ? That is a new reason to kill you're family.
If Sheila shot the twins first, what was Neville doing at this time ?
Your arguments against the twins being shot first don't seem credible.
The theory of Sheila's leg being pulled was rejected and refuted via the carpet blood stains. That is why the CCRC never used this in their judgments. Jeremy's conviction rests on the silencer.
But if there was no silencer on it, then there was, for the purposes of this application, sufficient that it might be necessary to refer it to the Court of Appeal on the basis that there was a real possibility that the sister was the murderer.
How can Jeremy get Sheila to sit up and do nothing while he is trying to kill her? Makes no sense
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Your arguments against the twins being shot first don't seem credible.
The theory of Sheila's leg being pulled was rejected and refuted via the carpet blood stains. That is why the CCRC never used this in their judgments. Jeremy's conviction rests on the silencer.
But if there was no silencer on it, then there was, for the purposes of this application, sufficient that it might be necessary to refer it to the Court of Appeal on the basis that there was a real possibility that the sister was the murderer.
How can Jeremy get Sheila to sit up and do nothing while he is trying to kill her? Makes no sense
Bamber's conviction rests on the mountain of forensic and circumstantial evidence against him. Although I don't know what the law is if he can find a massive technicality.
Please answer my question about what was Neville doing if Sheila shot the twins first. If you can't, just say.
Have you got a source for the CCRC judgement ? You keep quoting it. I have not been able to find it. Although you're quote here is nothing to do with Bamber pulling Sheila's legs after the second shot.
He didn't get Sheila to do anything. He shot her before she had a clue what was happening. It's ten yards from her bedroom to the main bedroom. Not ten miles.
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Your arguments against the twins being shot first don't seem credible.
The theory of Sheila's leg being pulled was rejected and refuted via the carpet blood stains. That is why the CCRC never used this in their judgments. Jeremy's conviction rests on the silencer.
But if there was no silencer on it, then there was, for the purposes of this application, sufficient that it might be necessary to refer it to the Court of Appeal on the basis that there was a real possibility that the sister was the murderer.
How can Jeremy get Sheila to sit up and do nothing while he is trying to kill her? Makes no sense
Your quote is nothing more than flaky and very ambiguous legalese ie "IF there was...." "MIGHT be necessary........."
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I think Neville did wake, and went towards the twins room and was shot in the arm, before running
downstairs. I think someone was waiting for him.
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I think Neville did wake, and went towards the twins room and was shot in the arm, before running
downstairs. I think someone was waiting for him.
Neville woke and was shot in the twins room. The evidence does not show this.
Who was waiting for him downstairs ?
If Neville woke, got shot in the twins room, and was then instantly confronted downstairs, when did he phone Bamber and the police ?
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Your arguments against the twins being shot first don't seem credible.
The theory of Sheila's leg being pulled was rejected and refuted via the carpet blood stains. That is why the CCRC never used this in their judgments. Jeremy's conviction rests on the silencer.
But if there was no silencer on it, then there was, for the purposes of this application, sufficient that it might be necessary to refer it to the Court of Appeal on the basis that there was a real possibility that the sister was the murderer.
How can Jeremy get Sheila to sit up and do nothing while he is trying to kill her? Makes no sense
Depends on your scenario.
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Depends on your scenario.
Do you believe that Sheila would have been compliant Caroline?
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Buddy can you please explain how Sheila committed the massacre. Third request.
You've given snippets yesterday and today -
Sheila shot the twins first because one was sucking his thumb.
Neville woke and was shot in the twins bedroom.
Sheila had an accomplice who was waiting downstairs for Neville.
Both Sheila and her accomplice allowed Neville to phone Bamber and the police.
A lot more explaining is needed for everything to fit into place.
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Look forward to reading Buddy's breakdown tomorrow.
I'm sure she's working on it now.
Debate well.
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Neville woke and was shot in the twins room. The evidence does not show this.
Who was waiting for him downstairs ?
If Neville woke, got shot in the twins room, and was then instantly confronted downstairs, when did he phone Bamber and the police ?
Excuse me Adam but you have misquoted buddy, he said he thought Nevill woke and 'went towards the twins room' he did not say he 'was shot in the twins room' you are putting words in buddy's mouth. It is quite feasible to think that is what Nevill did because I am sure in such a situation the twins safety would be the first thought for all the adults.
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Excuse me Adam but you have misquoted buddy, he said he thought Nevill woke and 'went towards the twins room' he did not say he 'was shot in the twins room' you are putting words in buddy's mouth. It is quite feasible to think that is what Nevill did because I am sure in such a situation the twins safety would be the first thought for all the adults.
Maggie, you've probably noticed that it's Adam's regular habit to misquote/twist/put words into mouths. It provides him with a chance to do what he does best, ie sneer and deride to bolster his own ego, then whine like a child that he's the victim of malice and is being goaded.
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No one knows who was shot first or last. Buddy's reason yesterday that one of the twins was sucking his thumb has been dismissed.
Twins were shot first. Crime scene shows this and the authorities worked this out. That is how it ended up in Julies September 23rd statement.
Twins were shot first, hence Daniel and Nicholas consist of murder charges count one and two. Sheila being shot last thus she is murder charge count five.
(https://s31.postimg.org/4hr0al1ff/counts.jpg)
Sheila menstrating during the massacre ? That is a new reason to kill you're family.
Of 50 women charged with crimes of violence, 44% committed their offence during the paramenstruum (P < 0·02) and there was a significant lack of offences during the ovulatory and post-ovulatory phases of the menstrual cycle
If Sheila shot the twins first, what was Neville doing at this time ?
Either still in bed and woke from the shots, or downstairs calling for help
Yes Sheila was sitting up when shot. Experts in the 2002 appeal said Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot. Thread created. Lookout disagreed this again shows Bamber as 100% guilty. Saying it was 'my leg being pulled'.
Yes your leg is being pulled. see below
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david ive asked you to explain why you think the crime scene shows the twins were killed first :)
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david ive asked you to explain why you think the crime scene shows the twins were killed first :)
And I have given you my explanation multiple times
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And I have given you my explanation multiple times
direct me to the post that explains it
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::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)---here we go again.
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::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)---here we go again.
well having a thumb in his mouth shows the twins were killed first,according to david ;)
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So you believe that scenario ? After the impact of a rifle at close quarters ??
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So you believe that scenario ? After the impact of a rifle at close quarters ??
i believe they were killed last
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Believe what you like,we're ALL entitled too our OWN views.
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well having a thumb in his mouth shows the twins were killed first,according to david ;)
That's not my reasons try reading my posts
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direct me to the post that explains it
there are several. You have already read them recently. If you cant remember or don't understand the evidence not much else I can do
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I think they probably were killed first but it's an educated guess, no more.
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there are several. You have already read them recently. If you cant remember or don't understand the evidence not much else I can do
because a twin had his thumb in his mouth means they were shot first :)) :)) :)) :))
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Twins were shot first. Crime scene shows this and the authorities worked this out. That is how it ended up in Julies September 23rd statement.
Twins were shot first, hence Daniel and Nicholas consist of murder charges count one and two. Sheila being shot last thus she is murder charge count five.
(https://s31.postimg.org/4hr0al1ff/counts.jpg)
Of 50 women charged with crimes of violence, 44% committed their offence during the paramenstruum (P < 0·02) and there was a significant lack of offences during the ovulatory and post-ovulatory phases of the menstrual cycle
Either still in bed and woke from the shots, or downstairs calling for help
Yes your leg is being pulled. see below
There is no way to know who was shot first or last.
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Twins were shot first. Crime scene shows this and the authorities worked this out. That is how it ended up in Julies September 23rd statement.
Twins were shot first, hence Daniel and Nicholas consist of murder charges count one and two. Sheila being shot last thus she is murder charge count five.
(https://s31.postimg.org/4hr0al1ff/counts.jpg)
Of 50 women charged with crimes of violence, 44% committed their offence during the paramenstruum (P < 0·02) and there was a significant lack of offences during the ovulatory and post-ovulatory phases of the menstrual cycle
Either still in bed and woke from the shots, or downstairs calling for help
Yes your leg is being pulled. see below
If the children were shot first with one bullet for each, as you say, that would leave at most only nine bullets left, before the killer needed to reload, but ten more bullets were fired before the killer ran out of ammunition. So I take it you disagree with that view and maintain that only five shots were fired at June at that stage, as opposed to six, and then four at Nevill, with the killer returning to fire more shots at the victims after reloading.
Also, it would appear that you disagree with the view that the shots to the children were fired in rapid succession. A ballistics expert would be able to confirm or deny whether one shot was fired to each on a separate occasion. I have not heard of it being suggested by an expert.
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The theory of Sheila's leg being pulled was rejected and refuted via the carpet blood stains. That is why the CCRC never used this in their judgments. Jeremy's conviction rests on the silencer.
That is incorrect. The Appeal Court accepted Dr Martyn Ismail's evidence that photographs show that Sheila's body was moved after she was killed and that that constituted further proof of Bamber's guilt. the CCRC have not, as far as I know, contradicted the 2002 Appeal Court's judgement,
The truth is, lines linking the blood spots make it obvious that the police moved Sheila's body.
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv2/fred1755/Crime%20Scene%20photographs/LOvCi%20with%20lines_zpsgvivsldr.jpg)
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That is incorrect. The Appeal Court accepted Dr Martyn Ismail's evidence that photographs show that Sheila's body was moved after she was killed and that that constituted further proof of Bamber's guilt. the CCRC have not, as far as I know, contradicted the 2002 Appeal Court's judgement,
The truth is, lines linking the blood spots make it obvious that the police moved Sheila's body.
Ismail's evidence was refuted by MT I have posted the relevant transcript.
What you are seeing in those photos is a parallax. Those lines would only be valid making a 2D comparison. You will need to have a 3D grid with the correct axis and reference points
(http://astro.unl.edu/naap/distance/graphics/Parallax_Example.png)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax)
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Excuse me Adam but you have misquoted buddy, he said he thought Nevill woke and 'went towards the twins room' he did not say he 'was shot in the twins room' you are putting words in buddy's mouth. It is quite feasible to think that is what Nevill did because I am sure in such a situation the twins safety would be the first thought for all the adults.
Excuse me Maggie. Can you not say 'excuse me'. You're acting as though I've abused a poster the same way you let other posters abuse me. But appreciate you also want to have a dig at me after the other dear ladies have tried to goad me this week.
Buddy doesn't say whether Neville was in or out of the twins bedroom. I assume he meant in.
All will be revealed today when Buddy gives his breakdown on how Sheila committed the massacre. There is no way he will give us these amazing snippets, and then not expand if he wants to be taken seriously.
Why does the evidence not show Neville was shot in/by the twins bedroom ?
Who was Sheila's accomplice waiting for Neville in the kitchen ?
If Neville woke and got shot upstairs and then confronted downstairs straight away, how did he manage to phone Bamber at 3:10am and then the police at 3:36am ?
How did Neville get confronted in the kitchen by Sheila's accomplice and then end up getting back upstairs to be shot 4 times.
All will be revealed by Buddy.
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Twins were shot first. Crime scene shows this and the authorities worked this out. That is how it ended up in Julies September 23rd statement.
Twins were shot first, hence Daniel and Nicholas consist of murder charges count one and two. Sheila being shot last thus she is murder charge count five.
(https://s31.postimg.org/4hr0al1ff/counts.jpg)
Of 50 women charged with crimes of violence, 44% committed their offence during the paramenstruum (P < 0·02) and there was a significant lack of offences during the ovulatory and post-ovulatory phases of the menstrual cycle
Either still in bed and woke from the shots, or downstairs calling for help
Yes your leg is being pulled. see below
The quote you put doesn't dismiss the 2002 statement that Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot. You said yourself she was sitting up when shot leaning against the bedside cabinet. She would have just died sitting up. So legs pulled by Bamber.
First, last it's not really that important. We both agree Bamber didn't fire 8 bullets into the twins, then go downstairs to reload before entering the main bedroom. How does the crime scene show the twins were shot first. Or is that just you're opinion ?
So you agree with Buddy that Neville may have been asleep when Sheila started shooting the twins ? So he woke and decided to call Bamber at 3.10am and the police at 3.36am. Rather than confront Sheila, who had just shot 8 bullets into them. Or get medical assistance for the twins.
Or Neville was phoning Bamber ? Letting Sheila go upstairs with the rifle. Why did Neville only say 11 words after phoning and waiting several minutes for Bamber to answer ? Sheila hadn't shot anyone. Why ? Neville phoned the forth furthest away police station 26 minutes later !
Neville would have been shot upstairs in the twins bedroom if he ran upstairs after his amazing hearing heard the shots. And Sheila only had 3 bullets left.
Please send me a link to the 2012 CCRC judgement you keep quoting.
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If the children were shot first with one bullet for each, as you say, that would leave at most only nine bullets left, before the killer needed to reload, but ten more bullets were fired before the killer ran out of ammunition. So I take it you disagree with that view and maintain that only five shots were fired at June at that stage, as opposed to six, and then four at Nevill, with the killer returning to fire more shots at the victims after reloading.
Also, it would appear that you disagree with the view that the shots to the children were fired in rapid succession. A ballistics expert would be able to confirm or deny whether one shot was fired to each on a separate occasion. I have not heard of it being suggested by an expert.
This post by Hartley should be considered.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5615.msg246289.html#msg246289
"It's not possible for there to have been 11 bullets when entering the master bedroom, only 10.
Otherwise the reload after shooting an immobile Nevill 4 times would make a total of 26 bullets, there were only 25.
There was only one extra breach bullet added and it was simply due to a partial reload, there was no special attempt to load 11 bullets."
Another consideration leads me to think that the rifle must have had only ten bullets if June and Nevill were, as it seems, shot before the children. If there were 11 bullets, the ten shots fired would leave one spare. The killer would not have saved a bullet in such a circumstance.
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excellent posts.strobe :)
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Theoretically speaking--------unless Strobe had been present at the scene !
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Theoretically speaking--------unless Strobe had been present at the scene !
yes thats true.its explained well
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I must have scared him/her away. Oh dear. ???
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I am more than happy to concede that there was no one waiting downstairs, however I think that
reinforces my theory.
If Sheila shot the children first which I firmly believe, because she didn't want them taken into care.
Her next target would have been June who suggested it. After hearing the shots Neville came to
investigate the noise of gun fire, and was shot through the arm. He ran downstairs to call Jeremy.
Sheila went to her mothers room and shot her, before going back downstairs to shoot her father, and then reloaded to finish the job.
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I am more than happy to concede that there was no one waiting downstairs, however I think that
reinforces my theory.
If Sheila shot the children first which I firmly believe, because she didn't want them taken into care.
Her next target would have been June who suggested it. After hearing the shots Neville came to
investigate the noise of gun fire, and was shot through the arm. He ran downstairs to call Jeremy.
Sheila went to her mothers room and shot her, before going back downstairs to shoot her father, and then reloaded to finish the job.
Are you suggesting that Sheila already had the gun upstairs with her? From where are you suggesting Nevill came when he heard gun fire? Surely he'd have told Jeremy that Sheila had fired the gun rather than she'd got hold of it. I'm inclined to think that if she'd already shot the twins, his best bet was 999 rather than Jeremy.
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Are you suggesting that Sheila already had the gun upstairs with her? From where are you suggesting Nevill came when he heard gun fire? Surely he'd have told Jeremy that Sheila had fired the gun rather than she'd got hold of it. I'm inclined to think that if she'd already shot the twins, his best bet was 999 rather than Jeremy.
No I am not suggesting Sheila already had the gun upstairs. I am suggesting he came from Sheila's room. I think Neville said she had gone beserk, and had the gun.
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I am more than happy to concede that there was no one waiting downstairs, however I think that
reinforces my theory.
If Sheila shot the children first which I firmly believe, because she didn't want them taken into care.
Her next target would have been June who suggested it. After hearing the shots Neville came to
investigate the noise of gun fire, and was shot through the arm. He ran downstairs to call Jeremy.
Sheila went to her mothers room and shot her, before going back downstairs to shoot her father, and then reloaded to finish the job.
So now there wasn't an accomplice of Sheila's waiting for Neville in the kitchen.
So now Neville was not sleeping when Sheila opened fire. It was always a preposturous suggestion.
I wish you would make you're mind up. My breakdown of how Bamber committed the massacre hasn't changed from day one. It hasn't needed to.
My thread today shows it was impossible for Neville to be phoning Bamber when Sheila opened fire. Bamber's CT agree as they say Neville also phoned the police 26 minutes later. He would only do this if everyone was still alive as it would be too late when the shooting started.
If Neville was just shot once through the arm, wouldn't he still be able to overpower Sheila downstairs ?
Did Neville run downstairs to escape WHF and get help, or just to wait in the kitchen for Sheila to shoot him some more and brutally beat him, without getting a mark on her ? The evidence is Neville was shot 4 times upstairs.
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So now there wasn't an accomplice of Sheila's waiting for Neville in the kitchen.
So now Neville was not sleeping when Sheila opened fire. It was a preposturous suggestion.
I wish you would make you're mind up. My breakdown of how Bamber committed the massacre hasn't changed from day one. It hasn't needed to.
My thread today shows it was impossible for Neville to be phoning Bamber when Sheila opened fire. Bamber's CT agree as they say Neville also phoned the police 26 minutes later. He would only do if everyone was still alive as it would be too late when the shooting started.
If Neville was just shot once through the arm, wouldn't he still be able to overpower Sheila downstairs ? Did he run downstairs to escape WHF, or just to wait on the kitchen for Sheila to shoot him some more ? The evidence is Neville was shot 4 times upstairs.
Read it again. Neville WAS sleeping. My suggestion in no more barmy than yours.
You want to think you are some sort of expert on this case. YOU ARE NOT., just theorys like the
rest of us.
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Read it again. Neville WAS sleeping. My suggestion in no more barmy than yours.
You want to think you are some sort of expert on this case. YOU ARE NOT., just theorys like the
rest of us.
Sorry you're breakdown is not very clear.
Are you saying Sheila started shooting the twins multiple times while Neville was sleeping ?
Neville woke up and went to investigate.
Sheila amazingly still had bullets left. Neville got shot through the arm in the twins room. Although the evidence does not show this.
Neville's decision after Sheila had shot him once and shot the twins 8 times was.........to phone Bamber.
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I wish you would make you're mind up. My breakdown of how Bamber committed the massacre hasn't changed from day one. It hasn't needed to.
Really? what happened to Jeremy carrying Sheila? then changing the bed sheets?
That's a big alteration if you ask me
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Really? what happened to Jeremy carrying Sheila? then changing the bed sheets?
That's a big alteration if you ask me
That is details. My breakdown is the basics. I will re post. Only fair as Buddy is making an effort.
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The quote you put doesn't dismiss the 2002 statement that Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot. You said yourself she was sitting up when shot leaning against the bedside cabinet. She would have just died sitting up. So legs pulled by Bamber.
You putting words in my mouth. I believe she was sitting up and fell back were she was found not moved at all. Only her hand by police
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Sorry you're breakdown is not very clear.
Are you saying Sheila started shooting the twins multiple times while Neville was sleeping ?
Neville woke up and went to investigate.
Sheila amazingly still had bullets left. Neville got shot through the arm in the twins room. Although the evidence does not show this.
Neville's decision after Sheila had shot him once and shot the twins 8 times was.........to phone Bamber.
Half of what you have posted I did not say.
Why exactly are you here. This is a debating chamber, not a dictator chamber.
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6549.msg295162.html#msg295162
Reply 4.
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You putting words in my mouth. I believe she was sitting up and fell back were she was found not moved at all. Only her hand by police
So Sheila was sitting up prior to her fatal neck shot from a rifle used for shooting rabbits.
The fatal shot moved Sheila's lower body at least two feet forward. So she was lying down.
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So Sheila was sitting up prior to her fatal neck shot from a rifle used for shooting rabbits.
The fatal shot moved Sheila's lower body at least two feet forward. So she was lying down.
Her head was to the side of the bedside cabinet. Not two foot away.
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Half of what you have posted I did not say.
Why exactly are you here. This is a debating chamber, not a dictator chamber.
I'm trying to debate you're breakdown. And praise you for trying. Virtually all current and former supporters have refused.
It seems you believe Neville was sleeping when Sheila opened fire.
Neville heard the shots and went to the twins room where he was shot in the arm. This refutes the evidence.
Neville ran downstairs to phone Bamber and said 11 words to him. Then rang the police 26 minutes later.
Sheila shot June and now had no bullets. She then went downstairs to brutally beat Neville and knock him out. Without getting a mark on her although Neville just had one bullet in his arm.
Sheila then reloaded to fire more bullets into Neville.
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Why does the evidence show Neville was shot four times from close range in the main bedroom ?
And why did Neville choose to ring Bamber and not 999 for medical and police assistance ? To be honest it was much too late to do either. Sheila had a gun and was firing bullets.
What happened in the 26 minutes between Neville's call to Bamber and Neville's call to the police.
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Her head was to the side of the bedside cabinet. Not two foot away.
Sheila's torso is at least 2 feet.
Her lower body would have to move two feet forward for the upper torso to move from a sitting up to a lying down position.
One shot to the neck won't do this. Only an alive person can move themselves into this position. Someone pulled her legs after the second shot.
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Sheila's torso is at least 2 feet.
Her lower body would have to move two feet forward for the upper torso to move from a sitting up to a lying down position.
One shot to the neck won't do this. Only an alive person can move themselves into this position. Someone pulled her legs.
Police did then.
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Police did then.
Was it the 'treacherous' Stan Jones ?
I am just going by David who says Sheila was sitting up when shot. And the 2002 appeal which said Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot.
It was impossible for one bullet to the neck to move Sheila's lower body at least two feet forward.
You need to defend you're breakdown. I've mentioned a few holes to start with.
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Was it the 'treacherous' Stan Jones ?
I am just going by David who says Sheila was sitting up when shot. And the 2002 appeal which said Sheila's legs were pulled after the second shot.
It was impossible for one bullet to the neck to move Sheila's lower body at least two feet forward.
You need to defend you're breakdown. I've mentioned a few holes to start with.
Adam you might want to read section 520 on ismali's evidence
520. Our conclusion was that we should not therefore admit the evidence and we have had no regard to it in reaching our conclusion. It can, however, be said about it that if it had been called at trial, it may well have represented yet another formidable string to the prosecution's bow in a case where even without any regard to that evidence, it has to be said that the prosecution were able to put forward a very strong case pointing to guilt.
Then you have the police notes saying there were not happy about the position of Sheila in the photos compared to how they originally found her. (Thus indicating they moved her)
We know they moved the hand and the gun for taking photos, indoing so they have moved the dress fabrics slightly leading Ismail to his conclusion. However In my opinion I think its all just a trick on the eyes by the different angles the photos are taken in causing people to make parallax errors
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Adam you might want to read section 520 on ismali's evidence
520. Our conclusion was that we should not therefore admit the evidence and we have had no regard to it in reaching our conclusion. It can, however, be said about it that if it had been called at trial, it may well have represented yet another formidable string to the prosecution's bow in a case where even without any regard to that evidence, it has to be said that the prosecution were able to put forward a very strong case pointing to guilt.
Then you have the police notes saying there were not happy about the position of Sheila in the photos compared to how they originally found her. (Thus indicating they moved her)
We know they moved the hand and the gun for taking photos, indoing so they have moved the dress fabrics slightly leading Ismail to his conclusion. However In my opinion I think its all just a trick on the eyes by the different angles the photos are taken in causing people to make parallax errors
You might be surprised, but I agree.
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The police have never said they pulled Sheila's body two feet forward before the crime scene officers arrived.
I was quite happy to believe Bamber shot Sheila as she was laying down.
But then got a double treat of the 2002 appeal, and you saying Sheila received her fatal bullet sitting up.
I did another 10 second experiment and made another 'forensic evidence breakthrough'. To move from sitting up to laying down, means I will have to use both my arms with some force to move my lower body several feet forward.
A bullet to the neck will not do this and the police had no reason to pull Sheila's body at least two feet forward.
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I prasied Buddy for creating a breakdown. Virtially all supporters and former supporters have refused.
However a breakdown is supposed to match the crime scene evidence. Just as mine does. Not be something totally different that has nothing to do with the crime scene evidence.
Hopefully he will defend or modify his breakdown.
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The police have never said they pulled Sheila's body two feet forward before the crime scene officers arrived.
Neither the Police or Jeremy have any good reason to randomly pull Sheila's feet forward two feet. its likely no one done anything of the sort
I was quite happy to believe Bamber shot Sheila as she was laying down.
But then got a double treat of the 2002 appeal, and you saying Sheila received her fatal bullet sitting up.
Yes sitting up back straight and not resting against the bedside table.
The fact you refer to these as treats seems to reinforce Jane's suggestion you 'hero worship' Jeremy
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I'm trying to debate you're breakdown. And praise you for trying. Virtually all current and former supporters have refused.
It seems you believe Neville was sleeping when Sheila opened fire.
Neville heard the shots and went to the twins room where he was shot in the arm. This refutes the evidence.
Neville ran downstairs to phone Bamber and said 11 words to him. Then rang the police 26 minutes later.
Sheila shot June and now had no bullets. She then went downstairs to brutally beat Neville and knock him out. Without getting a mark on her although Neville just had one bullet in his arm.
Sheila then reloaded to fire more bullets into Neville.
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Why does the evidence show Neville was shot four times from close range in the main bedroom ?
And why did Neville choose to ring Bamber and not 999 for medical and police assistance ? To be honest it was much too late to do either. Sheila had a gun and was firing bullets.
What happened in the 26 minutes between Neville's call to Bamber and Neville's call to the police.
I am sure everyone agrees Buddy's breakdown is nothing to do with the massacre crime scene and forensic evidence.
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Neither the Police or Jeremy have any good reason to randomly pull Sheila's feet forward two feet. its likely no one done anything of the sort
Yes sitting up back straight and not resting against the bedside table.
The fact you refer to these as treats seems to reinforce Jane's suggestion you 'hero worship' Jeremy
might want to look at this.credit must go to alias for the photo and comments
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like jane has said before.after the first shot to the neck its unlikely sheila would be able to move her neck
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Neither the Police or Jeremy have any good reason to randomly pull Sheila's feet forward two feet. its likely no one done anything of the sort
Yes sitting up back straight and not resting against the bedside table.
The fact you refer to these as treats seems to reinforce Jane's suggestion you 'hero worship' Jeremy
However, I don't agree with that.
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might want to look at this
Had she been sitting up, she'd have whacked her head on the BS table as she feel backwards,
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Neither the Police or Jeremy have any good reason to randomly pull Sheila's feet forward two feet. its likely no one done anything of the sort
Yes sitting up back straight and not resting against the bedside table.
The fact you refer to these as treats seems to reinforce Jane's suggestion you 'hero worship' Jeremy
Bamber pulled Sheila's feet forward as part of his frame. He wanted her lying down with the rifle nicely across her.
It is against police protocol to move Sheila's body prior to forensics and the photographer arriving.
I recommend you change you're stance and say Sheila shot herself laying down. And that the 2002 appeal is wrong.
Saying Sheila was sitting up is just supporting them as one shot to the neck will not move Sheila's lower body two feet forward. She would just die still sitting up.
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Had she been sitting up, she'd have whacked her head on the BS table as she feel backwards,
yes i agree.and there were no injuries or marks to the back of the head
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However, I don't agree with that.
Then how do you explain the blood running down the nightie as if she was sitting in an upwards position then fell back?
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If Sheila is sitting up, then her body instantly becomes lifeless after the fatal shot. She will remain in exactly the same position.
Only an alive person can move their lower body at least two feet forward from a sitting upright position. By using their functional and alive arms and lower body with considerable effort.
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If Sheila is sitting up, then her body instantly becomes lifeless after the fatal shot. She will remain in exactly the same position.
Only an alive person can move their lower body at least two feet forward from a sitting upright position. By using their functional and alive arms and lower body with considerable effort.
And only a magician can move the body two feet without producing any corresponding blood stains ::)
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To move myself from a sitting up position to having my head laying on the floor, without standing up, takes considerable arm and lower body effort of moving myself forward several feet.
It took several seconds.
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And only a magician can move the body two feet without producing any corresponding blood stains ::)
not really.where would 'you' expect the blood stains to had she been pulled down by her legs
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I do not think anyone on here who would have viewed the bodies of the twins, with hair shaved and
knew who had killed them would have kept quiet. I would have shopped my son.
JM said she knew, but said nothing.
The excuse of being young and in love does not wash.
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Having seen all sorts during my career and learned to hold back on the emotional sides of things ( to a degree ) I couldn't have done what JM did even if my life had depended on it and can't understand to this day why she'd offered.
Even servicemen/women would have been hard-pushed.
I wish I knew the REAL reason !
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Having seen all sorts during my career and learned to hold back on the emotional sides of things ( to a degree ) I couldn't have done what JM did even if my life had depended on it and can't understand to this day why she'd offered.
Even servicemen/women would have been hard-pushed.
I wish I knew the REAL reason !
According to her trial testimony she done it so she could speak to Sheila supernaturally it find the truth. This was brought up to catch her out because if Jeremy had done all this planning and told her "tonight is the night" and that he hired a hitman ect. it shows she is lying one way or another
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According to her trial testimony she done it so she could speak to Sheila supernaturally it find the truth. This was brought up to catch her out because if Jeremy had done all this planning and told her "tonight is the night" and that he hired a hitman ect. it shows she is lying one way or another
Totally agree David. She had already said that she knew Jeremy was the killer without supernatural powers. Probably something to do with the drugs she was on.
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What a lame excuse. JM was a schemer,no doubt about that and the method she used to visit the mortuary only she knew.
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Totally agree David. She had already said that she knew Jeremy was the killer without supernatural powers. Probably something to do with the drugs she was on.
She probably did in her heart, though admits only to realizing after call 2 that Jeremy was telling her his family was dead. Unable and unwilling to accept that the relationship had expired with them she went along with this narcissist until the pain became too great: as Julie put it she was carrying the guilt for both of them. It was not Julie chuckling behind closed doors at Bourtree Cottage but Jeremy: chuckling at the twenty five shots he fired, chuckling at the false trail he had set Police and chuckling at the thought of outwitting the relatives over whom he now had the whip hand and to whom he declared "I'm the boss", along with Police and Barbara, who found him with his feet up on the desk upon entering the office several days later. It was all make believe, a charade in Jeremy's mind that he would have the cash at his disposal at a time of his choosing, before he became staid and antiquated like the parents he had endured all those years, parents who had saved for a comfortable retirement, yet who met their nemesis at the end of a gun from a boy they had attempted to nurture the best they knew how.
How could Julie now accept the blood money of a wine bar in London's fashionable West End with five deaths on her conscience, how could she possibly pour a tomato juice to rich City slickers without memories of Jeremy flooding back, the superficial charisma hiding a terrible shallowness ad interim which no materialism could sustain, and and as the noose tightened she did the only thing she could to extricate herself from this monster, the monster she may have in part helped to create, by finally divulging the extent of his defect to an outside source, though too late to assuage her conscience and the five corpses which lie lifeless thereon.
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She probably did in her heart, though admits only to realizing after call 2 that Jeremy was telling her his family was dead. Unable and unwilling to accept that the relationship had expired with them she went along with this narcissist until the pain became too great: as Julie put it she was carrying the guilt for both of them. It was not Julie chuckling behind closed doors at Bourtree Cottage but Jeremy: chuckling at the twenty five shots he fired, chuckling at the false trail he had set Police and chuckling at the thought of outwitting the relatives over whom he now had the whip hand and to whom he declared "I'm the boss", along with Police and Barbara, who found him with his feet up on the desk upon entering the office several days later. It was all make believe, a charade in Jeremy's mind that he would have the cash at his disposal at a time of his choosing, before he became staid and antiquated like the parents he had endured all those years, parents who had saved for a comfortable retirement, yet who met their nemesis at the end of a gun from a boy they had attempted to nurture the best they knew how.
How could Julie now accept the blood money of a wine bar in London's fashionable West End with five deaths on her conscience, how could she possibly pour a tomato juice to rich City slickers without memories of Jeremy flooding back, the superficial charisma hiding a terrible shallowness ad interim which no materialism could sustain, and and as the noose tightened she did the only thing she could to extricate herself from this monster, the monster she may have in part helped to create, by finally divulging the extent of his defect to an outside source, though too late to assuage her conscience and the five corpses which lie lifeless thereon.
Very eloquently put Steve, but the fact that she probably knew speaks volumes.
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I do not think anyone on here who would have viewed the bodies of the twins, with hair shaved and
knew who had killed them would have kept quiet. I would have shopped my son.
JM said she knew, but said nothing.
The excuse of being young and in love does not wash.
I completely agree with you buddy, it's hard to believe anyone could behave the way she did. I am particularly shocked by the fact that Julie and JB visited Colin and stayed the night at his flat. It's quite shocking imo if she did as she later claimed already know |JB had killed everyone.
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people have done some wonderful things for love while others have commited the most hidious crimes for love.i agree jm's morals are terrible.but there you have it