Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on June 17, 2016, 03:48:AM
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Why didn't a fit Neville tackle Sheila himself instead of ringing Bamber ?
Why didn't Neville wake an available June, instead of ringing Bamber ?
Why did June sleep through the noise meaning Neville chose to phone Bamber ?
What was Sheila doing when Neville phoned Bamber ?
Why would Neville leave everyone upstairs, asleep to make a downstairs call ?
Why didn't Neville phone the police instead ?
If Neville did phone the police, why did he also phone Bamber ?
Why didn't Neville phone the Foakes's, who were a minute away ?
How many minutes did Neville have to wait for Bamber to wake & answer his call ?
Why was Neville prepared to wait so long for Bamber to answer ?
Would Neville expect Bamber to not answer at all, either due to not waking, or waking and ignoring the phone ?
Would Neville be expecting to just get Bamber's answering machine ?
How did Bamber wake from sleeping 'like a log' and get to the telephone before the answering machine switched on.
Why would Neville phone Bamber if they had a poor relationship ?
Why would Neville phone Bamber if he knew Bamber and Sheila 'didn't like each other' ?
Would Bamber have heard Neville's phone call if upstairs 'sleeping like a log' with his bedroom door shut ?
Why didn't Neville phone other available relatives ?
Why would Neville put his son in danger ?
After waiting for several minutes for Bamber to answer, why did Neville then only say 11 words ?
Bamber had no key for WHF. What was Neville expecting Bamber to do ?
Bamber was three miles away. How was Neville expecting Bamber to be of immediate assistance ?
If Neville was not able to physically stop Sheila and did not believe him and June would be able to, why ask Bamber to come over ?
If Neville did not wake June because he didn't want to put her in danger, why put his son in danger ?
What was Neville expecting Bamber to do, that a fully fit Neville and June could not do ?
Would Neville expect Bamber to answer a ringing phone at 3am, if it woke him ?
Bamber rang the police upon getting Neville's call. If Neville believed Bamber might do this, why didn't Neville ring the police himself ?
Did Bamber's phone have a loud ring tone that would travel across rooms, up stairs and through doors ?
Would Neville not be expecting to just get Bamber's answering machine ?
If Neville was just planning to leave a message on Bamber's answering machine, how would that assist him ?
Would Neville not be expecting Bamber to be scared to do anything if he told her that Sheila had 'gone crazy and has got the gun' ?
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as someone who knew the bambers once said,jb would be the last person neville would phone,also adam i think the call was a big part of jb's plan,he made it up so he could be outside with police conducting them as to what they should think and expect,which he done masterfully i might add,taff jones fell for the oscar winning performance ;) :)
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Rubbish !
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Rubbish !
now now lookout ,your very touchie ,did you burn your lunch or something :)
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Adam most of these questions have pretty straight forward possible answers. for example
What was Sheila doing when Neville phoned Bamber ?
Exactly what Neville was saying
Why would Neville leave everyone upstairs, asleep to make a downstairs call ?
He cant make a call upstairs. only phone is downstairs
What was Neville expecting Bamber to do, that a fully fit Neville and June could not do ?
He obviously thought he could not handle the situation
Why didn't a fit Neville tackle Sheila himself instead of ringing Bamber ?
After the phone call he does try and fails.
Bamber had no key for WHF. What was Neville expecting Bamber to do ?
You seem to be suggesting that Neville would somehow know he would already be dead by the time Jeremy shows up and thus cannot let him in.
All in All if someone is in such a scenario they don't have time to ratioanlise their descisions. They make snap judgements whether good or bad.
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It's good that you answered 6 of my 30 questions.
So Sheila was 'going crazy with the gun' when Neville phoned Bamber ? Thought it would have been a bit late to phone anyone.
Thought there was an upstairs study phone. The bedroom phone mysteriously in the kitchen.
If a 6.4 Neville together with June felt they could not handle the situation, they still really had no choice but to try. Sheila was 'going crazy with the gun'. The quickest Bamber could get there was 15 minutes. If he answered the phone. Neville didn't even wake June to see if the two of them could handle the situation. She was shot with her head on the pillow. As it happened Bamber never went within 50 yards of WHF all night.
Why phone Bamber if Neville's going tackle Sheila himself ?
No, if Bamber can't let himself into WHF, and Neville can't get to the door to let him in, how can Bamber assist ?
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I'm sure both supporters and guilters agree, the last thing Neville would do in the alleged situation was phone Bamber. He had several better options.
Or he had no options at all if things escalated quickly with Sheila. If she was going crazy with the gun, there was no time to phone anyone, especially an asleep Bamber.
There is a zero chance Neville considered phoning Bamber, if he ever did consider asking for and then waiting for outside help. He certainly didn't phone the Flokes's or other relatives and the police have never said he phoned them.
It is not surprising the judge called Neville's phone call 'mysterious' (difficult or impossible to understand or explain).
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I'm sure both supporters and guilters agree, the last thing Neville would do in the alleged situation was phone Bamber. He had several better options.
Or he had no options at all if things escalated quickly with Sheila. If she was going crazy with the gun, there was no time to phone anyone, especially an asleep Bamber.
There is a zero chance Neville considered phoning Bamber, if he ever did consider asking for and then waiting for outside help. He certainly didn't phone the Flokes's or other relatives and the police have never said he phoned them.
It is not surprising the judge called Neville's phone call 'mysterious' (difficult or impossible to understand or explain).
Some very good points Adam, I find it very hard to believe that had Sheila been going crazy with a gun, that Neville would leave everyone to go phone Bamber. Adrenalin would have kicked in with Neville and he would have tackled Sheila with his survival instinct.
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How would anyone " tackle " someone who was going " berserk " with a gun ?
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How would anyone " tackle " someone who was going " berserk " with a gun ?
That's a good point, what was Neville expecting Bamber to do which he couldn't do ?
Lookout why don't you answer my 30 questions. If there are good answers it might explain why Neville chose to phone Bamber.
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How would anyone " tackle " someone who was going " berserk " with a gun ?
The same way a hero 70 odd year old had a go at that tw@t who shot an innocent MP. Adrenalin kicks in.
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The same way a hero 70 odd year old had a go at that tw@t who shot an innocent MP. Adrenalin kicks in.
Well said, Justice. How come Nevill, the hero who would tackle anyone and, according to Lookout, could have floored an armed Jeremy with one finger, has suddenly become incapable of tackling Sheila because she has a gun?
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The same way a hero 70 odd year old had a go at that tw@t who shot an innocent MP. Adrenalin kicks in.
It would have mattered not if Neville had been 7ft----those wielding a gun would win.
How much adrenaline would Neville have had late at night after a full days work in the fields ? Who was there to protect Neville from a hail of bullets ? Who was there to have come behind the shooter ?
What was to stop someone from using a phone upstairs while the shooter was downstairs ?
Talking about the murderer in Leeds,how many people surrounded the monster to stop him ? There is normally a small crowd when an MP is around.?
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It would have mattered not if Neville had been 7ft----those wielding a gun would win.
How much adrenaline would Neville have had late at night after a full days work in the fields ? Who was there to protect Neville from a hail of bullets ? Who was there to have come behind the shooter ?
What was to stop someone from using a phone upstairs while the shooter was downstairs ?
Talking about the murderer in Leeds,how many people surrounded the monster to stop him ? There is normally a small crowd when an MP is around.?
Lookout, I can't quote the amount of times that you've said Nevill would have had no trouble in flooring Jeremy.
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Lookout, I can't quote the amount of times that you've said Nevill would have had no trouble in flooring Jeremy.
Man to man ?? Neville obviously wasn't the type to floor a woman !
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Man to man ?? Neville obviously wasn't the type to floor a woman !
Are you saying that, because of the gun, Nevill took time out to differentiate between whether it was a m ale or female who was wielding it? Surely his reasoning would have been that a bullet from either would be equally as painful/devastating/deadly.
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Are you saying that, because of the gun, Nevill took time out to differentiate between whether it was a m ale or female who was wielding it? Surely his reasoning would have been that a bullet from either would be equally as painful/devastating/deadly.
Oh dear,do I have to spell it out for you or are you just being awkward ?
Had it been a man who'd have approached/confronted Neville,regardless of it being his own son,then he'd have used what strength he'd had left in fighting back and if it had been Jeremy,then he'd have had the marks to show for it--------------in which case JB didn't have a mark on him,leaving the confrontation to it having been a woman.
Did we ever hear how Neville's opponent was after the scuffle outside the pub when Neville received a black eye,or was it that Neville wasn't a fighting man at all ?
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It's good that you answered 6 of my 30 questions.
So Sheila was 'going crazy with the gun' when Neville phoned Bamber ? Thought it would have been a bit late to phone anyone.
Thought there was an upstairs study phone. The bedroom phone mysteriously in the kitchen.
If a 6.4 Neville together with June felt they could not handle the situation, they still really had no choice but to try. Sheila was 'going crazy with the gun'. The quickest Bamber could get there was 15 minutes. If he answered the phone. Neville didn't even wake June to see if the two of them could handle the situation. She was shot with her head on the pillow. As it happened Bamber never went within 50 yards of WHF all night.
Why phone Bamber if Neville's going tackle Sheila himself ?
No, if Bamber can't let himself into WHF, and Neville can't get to the door to let him in, how can Bamber assist ?
excellent points adam. :)
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The same way a hero 70 odd year old had a go at that tw@t who shot an innocent MP. Adrenalin kicks in.
exactly justice,i remember years ago a newspaper reported that a mum had lifted a van by herself to free her child,adrenalin :)
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Man to man ?? Neville obviously wasn't the type to floor a woman !
If she had a gun, obviously he would. I have head this said before and it's nonsense.
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Oh dear,do I have to spell it out for you or are you just being awkward ?
Had it been a man who'd have approached/confronted Neville,regardless of it being his own son,then he'd have used what strength he'd had left in fighting back and if it had been Jeremy,then he'd have had the marks to show for it--------------in which case JB didn't have a mark on him,leaving the confrontation to it having been a woman.
Did we ever hear how Neville's opponent was after the scuffle outside the pub when Neville received a black eye,or was it that Neville wasn't a fighting man at all ?
Well, isn't it just as well that he didn't adopt that attitude during his war effort or he may never have returned. I might also add that, if he took time out to reach a decision re Sheila with gun, he obviously didn't think there was any immediate danger, in which case, why would he have bothered making a call to Jeremy at silly o' clock.
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If she had a gun, obviously he would. I have head this said before and it's nonsense.
caroline,he would have rushed her maybe take 1or2 shots in the process ,but would have got the rifle from her,could even have ambushed her,remember its not a handgun so all neville had to do was grab the long barrel :)
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caroline,he would have rushed her maybe take 1or2 shots in the process ,but would have got the rifle from her,could even have anbushed her,remember its not a handgun so all neville had to do was grab the long barrel :)
Of course he would, not just for his own good but for hers too. The idea that he wouldn't have done all he could to stop her hurting herself or anyone else is ludicrous.
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caroline,he would have rushed her maybe take 1or2 shots in the process ,but would have got the rifle from her,could even have anbushed her,remember its not a handgun so all neville had to do was grab the long barrel :)
Quite true Sami, remember how close the barrel was and Sheila was a novice, unlike Jeremy
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Of course he would, not just for his own good but for hers too. The idea that he wouldn't have done all he could to stop her hurting herself or anyone else is ludicrous.
whats even more ludicrous is that he would phone jb ,as adam said he didnt have the keys so how would nb open the door for him ,how did nb even know he would be alive by the time jb came.neville was a war hero and would not have needed anyone
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The two PC's who DIDN'T give evidence were Cracknell and Norcup-------I wonder why ? Because they'd BOTH known that it was Neville who'd rang as they'd have heard the call, but if they'd been called as witnesses,it would have given JB an alibi.
West was receiving a disciplinary for falsifying evidence,but neither Cracknell or Norcup backed him up ??
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The two PC's who DIDN'T give evidence were Cracknell and Norcup-------I wonder why ? Because they'd BOTH known that it was Neville who'd rang as they'd have heard the call, but if they'd been called as witnesses,it would have given JB an alibi.
West was receiving a disciplinary for falsifying evidence,but neither Cracknell or Norcup backed him up ??
where did you hear this
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where did you hear this
It's a known FACT. The reason you haven't heard about it is because it happens to be true and guilters don't do truth ! They either ignore it or devise their own version.
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It's a known FACT. The reason you haven't heard about it is because it happens to be true and guilters don't do truth ! They either ignore it or devise their own version.
If it's "a known FACT" presumably we have their reports/WS on here and we can all benefit from your knowledge.
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It's a known FACT. The reason you haven't heard about it is because it happens to be true and guilters don't do truth ! They either ignore it or devise their own version.
as you youself once said ,'show me in black n white' ;D
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Oh dear,do I have to spell it out for you or are you just being awkward ?
Had it been a man who'd have approached/confronted Neville,regardless of it being his own son,then he'd have used what strength he'd had left in fighting back and if it had been Jeremy,then he'd have had the marks to show for it--------------in which case JB didn't have a mark on him,leaving the confrontation to it having been a woman.
Did we ever hear how Neville's opponent was after the scuffle outside the pub when Neville received a black eye,or was it that Neville wasn't a fighting man at all ?
forgive me but ive never heard that story of neville's black eye,also fighting in the street and fighting someone with a rifle for your LIFE are 2 different things
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forgive me but ive never heard that story of neville's black eye,also fighting in the street and fighting someone with a rifle for your LIFE are 2 different things
I'm more than aware that there is a difference but I asked about injuries,if any, to the one who gave Neville the black eye,or did Neville allow it to happen ? In other words didn't he put up a fight then ?
The row was about land and Neville's opponent was a relative. Probably one of the two brothers who Neville was wary of and not Jeremy as most think.
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i also thing it is an insult to suggest neville maynot have been a fighting man,he risked his life every day in air for us.if it wont for our hero's we would probably be speaking in german now
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forgive me but ive never heard that story of neville's black eye,also fighting in the street and fighting someone with a rifle for your LIFE are 2 different things
Sami, I believe the altercation was said to have taken place in/near/outside a local pub. I'm not certain about confirmation.
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I'm more than aware that there is a difference but I asked about injuries,if any, to the one who gave Neville the black eye,or did Neville allow it to happen ? In other words didn't he put up a fight then ?
The row was about land and Neville's opponent was a relative. Probably one of the two brothers who Neville was wary of and not Jeremy as most think.
i think he did put up a brave fight,because none of the other victims had black eyes and broken nose and lacirations to the head,dispite what you think he wasnt fighting sheila,it was jb he was fighting
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Sami, I believe the altercation was said to have taken place in/near/outside a local pub. I'm not certain about confirmation.
oh,theres also another jane,someone throwing bullets at neville and saying next time they will be from the end of a gun.being a magistrate i dont think he would be fighting in the street
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The same way a hero 70 odd year old had a go at that tw@t who shot an innocent MP. Adrenalin kicks in.
That's assuming Neville would get to her before she had a chance to shoot at him
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oh,theres also another jane,someone throwing bullets at neville and saying next time they will be from the end of a gun.being a magistrate i dont think he would be fighting in the street
That was allegedly the now deceased farmer, Jimmy Bell. The story is possibly apocryphal as it was the book's author who recounted it. If true, it may have had to do with, what he saw as interference from June, into his failing marriage. As you rightly say, it's rather difficult to imagine a magistrate involving him self in a street brawl on his home turf.
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I'm sure both supporters and guilters agree, the last thing Neville would do in the alleged situation was phone Bamber. He had several better options.
Or he had no options at all if things escalated quickly with Sheila. If she was going crazy with the gun, there was no time to phone anyone, especially an asleep Bamber.
There is a zero chance Neville considered phoning Bamber, if he ever did consider asking for and then waiting for outside help. He certainly didn't phone the Flokes's or other relatives and the police have never said he phoned them.
It is not surprising the judge called Neville's phone call 'mysterious' (difficult or impossible to understand or explain).
Did the Judge really say it was 'mysterious' like he said Julie had a 'ring of truth'? Is a Judge even supposed to make such comments? surely that's misconduct, bias or prejudice
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I wonder at their attitude if Julie had been an ugly bint ? I doubt a " ring of truth " would have come into it.
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I wonder at their attitude if Julie had been an ugly bint ? I doubt a " ring of truth " would have come into it.
Well, she was no oil painting, I seem to recall.
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That's assuming Neville would get to her before she had a chance to shoot at him
your talking nonsense again,neville could easily have hidden behind a door and grabbed the barrel as sheila approached or ambushed her some other way whf is a big place,he also would have known that a .22 round woukd only kill if it hit one of the vitals,and you cannot deny he was a fit man :)
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even crackshot jb couldnt hit the vitals with his first 4 shots at neville :)
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Did the Judge really say it was 'mysterious' like he said Julie had a 'ring of truth'? Is a Judge even supposed to make such comments? surely that's misconduct, bias or prejudice
judges always used to make comments like that,jb's got nothing to shout about,the poor kray's had a judge that was much worse ,he would roll his eyes and smirk at the jury when the defence were making a point
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your talking nonsense again,neville could easily have hidden behind a door and grabbed the barrel as sheila approached or ambushed her some other way whf is a big place,he also would have known that a .22 round woukd only kill if it hit one of the vitals,and you cannot deny he was a fit man :)
He could also have done the same if it had been Jeremy too ? There were plenty of rifles in the place to use for bashing if not shooting.
3 adults would have overcome 1 man,but two adults against an unstable woman with a rifle is no match.
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He could also have done the same if it had been Jeremy too ? There were plenty of rifles in the place to use for bashing if not shooting.
3 adults would have overcome 1 man,but two adults against an unstable woman with a rifle is no match.
he did,it is clear he was not shot the first 4 times in the kitchen.so he went to kitchen to arm himself but never made it to the guns,because it was jb he was fighting in the kitchen,not sheila,3 adults 2 adults thats all nonsense ,neville alone woukd have diarmed sheila even with 4 bullets in him :)
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he did,it is clear he was not shot the first 4 times in the kitchen.so he went to kitchen to arm himself but never made it to the guns,because it was jb he was fighting in the kitchen,not sheila,3 adults 2 adults thats all nonsense ,neville alone woukd have diarmed sheila even with 4 bullets in him :)
Neville only had 1 arm free.How much could he have done using i arm ?
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Neville only had 1 arm free.How much could he have done using i arm ?
yes and had he grabbed the barrel with that hand sheila would not have been able to free it,all he had to do then is to sweep her feet from underneath her ,fight over :)
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yes and had he grabbed the barrel with that hand sheila would not have been able to free it,all he had to do then is to sweep her feet from underneath her ,fight over :)
And how do you think Neville would have tackled Jeremy,bearing in mind that Jeremy didn't have a mark on him ?
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And how do you think Neville would have tackled Jeremy,bearing in mind that Jeremy didn't have a mark on him ?
he could not win against jb with that arm.apart from his face how can you say with out any doubt that there were on marks on jb's body,because no one examined him ,he may also have worn a mask.he would be trying to fend jb off with 1 hand , jb could easily grab his wrist or hand and bash him with the rifle with the other hand,which is what i think he did, easy
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And how do you think Neville would have tackled Jeremy,bearing in mind that Jeremy didn't have a mark on him ?
But there is no proof that he didn't because no one got a good look at him, plus he'd undoubtedly have worn protective clothing of some sort..................and I don't mean a wetsuit.
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he could not win against jb with that arm.apart from his face how can you say with out any doubt that there were on marks on jb's body,because no one examined him ,he may also have worn a mask.he would be trying to fend jb off with 1 hand , jb could easily grab his wrist or hand and bash him with the rifle with the other hand,which is what i think he did, easy
Didn't JM say that there were no marks on JB's body ? Afterall, she couldn't wait to " sleep with the murderer " and if anyone would have seen signs of a fight/struggle,she would.
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Didn't JM say that there were no marks on JB's body ? Afterall, she couldn't wait to " sleep with the murderer " and if anyone would have seen signs of a fight/struggle,she would.
Perhaps there were no marks that she saw.
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Didn't JM say that there were no marks on JB's body ? Afterall, she couldn't wait to " sleep with the murderer " and if anyone would have seen signs of a fight/struggle,she would.
oh so you believe jm when it suits you,othertimes she's a liar :)
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Perhaps there were no marks that she saw.
Give me a break !! She'd have been all over him like ivy. Besides,it would have been well broadcast iif he'd been covered in cuts and bruises-------------------but he wasn't,because it WASN'T him !
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Give me a break !! She'd have been all over him like ivy. Besides,it would have been well broadcast iif he'd been covered in cuts and bruises-------------------but he wasn't,because it WASN'T him !
Exactly WHY would she "have been all over him like ivy", Lookout. Didn't she say in a WS they hadn't had sex since "it" happened?
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Exactly WHY would she "have been all over him like ivy", Lookout. Didn't she say in a WS they hadn't had sex since "it" happened?
That doesn't alter the fact that she'd have seen his body when they were in bed,sex or not.I can't imagine that either would have worn pyjamas mid-August.
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That's assuming Neville would get to her before she had a chance to shoot at him
Well he had time to pick up a phone and dial Bamber, tell him Sheila/sister is going berserk with a gun so i would naturally think he had chance. Even after taking four shots upstairs he managed to get downstairs again. We are talking about a former RAF pilot here David, fearless, brave and used to planning to detail? 6'4" tall, farmer and Magistrate having to deal with Sheila running about his farmhouse in her nightie and no footwear not used to shooting, not used to shooting quick, not used to reloading, yes he had chance to get to her, anxiety no matter what time of the day or night would have kicked his adrenalin in and his survival instinct, especially after making a frantic phone call to his son, or so we are lead to believe. That's why I believe he was taken by surprise in the bedroom, with no chance or time to make a phone call and he made his way downstairs to get his shotgun, his only defence after taking four quick shots?
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That doesn't alter the fact that she'd have seen his body when they were in bed,sex or not.I can't imagine that either would have worn pyjamas mid-August.
Possibly not. But it doesn't rule out, that if he was trying to hide something, he MAY have.................unless he'd been well protected. In any case, as he'd been working on the farm, why might one scratch have been different from another?
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That doesn't alter the fact that she'd have seen his body when they were in bed,sex or not.I can't imagine that either would have worn pyjamas mid-August.
if the scenario in post,rely,' 49' had occurred what sort of marks woud you expect on jb
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Well he had time to pick up a phone and dial Bamber, tell him Sheila/sister is going berserk with a gun so i would naturally think he had chance. Even after taking four shots upstairs he managed to get downstairs again. We are talking about a former RAF pilot here David, fearless, brave and used to planning to detail? 6'4" tall, farmer and Magistrate having to deal with Sheila running about his farmhouse in her nightie and no footwear not used to shooting, not used to shooting quick, not used to reloading, yes he had chance to get to her, anxiety no matter what time of the day or night would have kicked his adrenalin in and his survival instinct, especially after making a frantic phone call to his son, or so we are lead to believe. That's why I believe he was taken by surprise in the bedroom, with no chance or time to make a phone call and he made his way downstairs to get his shotgun, his only defence after taking four quick shots?
Yes this is a believable scenario. The idea of Nevill meekly putting the telephone receiver down after Sheila cuts him off with one hand whilst holding the rifle with the other re Scott Lomax is incredible.
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if the scenario in post,rely,' 49' had occurred what sort of marks woud you expect on jb
Marks like he'd been in a fight with a fit, 6ft 4 farmer with arms liike hams.
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forgot that one Steve the line went dead?
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forgot that one Steve the line went dead?
Yes this is a believable scenario. The idea of Nevill meekly putting the telephone receiver down after Sheila cuts him off with one hand whilst holding the rifle with the other re Scott Lomax is incredible.
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Oh dear I've done it again.
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Marks like he'd been in a fight with a fit, 6ft 4 farmer with arms liike hams.
'Cept he was hardly "fit". He'd been shot 4 times. One arm was useless. He was probably in considerable pain.
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Marks like he'd been in a fight with a fit, 6ft 4 farmer with arms liike hams.
one arm like a ham the other would not have been any good,but a least you admit to his physical condition ,so why arent there any marks on sheila,cause she was not involved in the kitchen fight
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Oh dear I've done it again.
Ha ha never mind Steve your post added a lot of weight and one I had forgot about.
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Well he had time to pick up a phone and dial Bamber, tell him Sheila/sister is going berserk with a gun so i would naturally think he had chance. Even after taking four shots upstairs he managed to get downstairs again. We are talking about a former RAF pilot here David, fearless, brave and used to planning to detail? 6'4" tall, farmer and Magistrate having to deal with Sheila running about his farmhouse in her nightie and no footwear not used to shooting, not used to shooting quick, not used to reloading, yes he had chance to get to her, anxiety no matter what time of the day or night would have kicked his adrenalin in and his survival instinct, especially after making a frantic phone call to his son, or so we are lead to believe. That's why I believe he was taken by surprise in the bedroom, with no chance or time to make a phone call and he made his way downstairs to get his shotgun, his only defence after taking four quick shots?
yes i will agree to that,justice,good points :)
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'Cept he was hardly "fit". He'd been shot 4 times. One arm was useless. He was probably in considerable pain.
Sami reckoned that he could still have grappled with " Sheila "
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Sami reckoned that he could still have grappled with " Sheila "
Without knowing exactly what the scenario was, the MOST I can see him doing was possibly being able to deflect the barrel of the gun away from his body.
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Sami reckoned that he could still have grappled with " Sheila "
how can you compare jb with sheila,come on use a bit of common sense.jb could take on half a dozen sheila's by knocking them out one after the other.and cause he was fighting for his life
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Without knowing exactly what the scenario was, the MOST I can see him doing was possibly being able to deflect the barrel of the gun away from his body.
Which was probably when he got burned with her cigar,on his " good " arm.
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Sami reckoned that he could still have grappled with " Sheila "
as i said before if it were sheila he would still be alive today,i firmly believe he had the power to grab the barrel and hold on to it,leaving his face unprotected hence the broken noise and black eyes
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Which was probably when he got burned with her cigar,on his " good " arm.
OK, so now we have Sheila toting -and loading- a gun with one hand and holding a cigar in the other? Hmm!!!!
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OK, so now we have Sheila toting -and loading- a gun with one hand and holding a cigar in the other? Hmm!!!!
Not exactly,but if you want to add your own twist to it,be my guest.It's what EP did and it's called being dishonest.
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Not exactly,but if you want to add your own twist to it,be my guest.It's what EP did and it's called being dishonest.
Where do you think she'd have put this cigar, then, Lookout? You throw in these little add on's, seemingly giving no thought to how they occur. I think it HIGHLY unlikely she'd have secreted cigars into WHF. If it had been one of Nevill's, and she had it in the hand that wasn't holding the gun, she must have predetermined that she was going to brand him. What you suggest doesn't make sense.
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Well he had time to pick up a phone and dial Bamber, tell him Sheila/sister is going berserk with a gun so i would naturally think he had chance. Even after taking four shots upstairs he managed to get downstairs again. We are talking about a former RAF pilot here David, fearless, brave and used to planning to detail? 6'4" tall, farmer and Magistrate having to deal with Sheila running about his farmhouse in her nightie and no footwear not used to shooting, not used to shooting quick, not used to reloading, yes he had chance to get to her, anxiety no matter what time of the day or night would have kicked his adrenalin in and his survival instinct, especially after making a frantic phone call to his son, or so we are lead to believe. That's why I believe he was taken by surprise in the bedroom, with no chance or time to make a phone call and he made his way downstairs to get his shotgun, his only defence after taking four quick shots?
What is very interesting is that if Neville rang Jeremy he had to have done so before he was shot. This scenario is actually corroborated by two pieces of evidence.
1. The alleged call to Jeremy. Neville sais 'Sheila has gone crazy and got the gun' he does not mention being shot or Sheila shooting anyone. This corroborates that Neville rang before he was shot.
2. Neville was not shot in bed, because his side of the bed has no blood stains on them as opposed to June's side of the bed we know she was shot in bed for that very reason. Plus the location of the shell casings don't show Neville was shot in bed but was shot coming up the stairs towards the bedroom.
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What is very interesting is that if Neville rang Jeremy he had to have done so before he was shot. This scenario is actually corroborated by two pieces of evidence.
1. The alleged call to Jeremy. Neville sais 'Sheila has gone crazy and got the gun' he does not mention being shot or Sheila shooting anyone. This corroborates that Neville rang before he was shot.
2. Neville was not shot in bed, because his side of the bed has no blood stains on them as opposed to June's side of the bed we know she was shot in bed for that very reason. Plus the location of the shell casings don't show Neville was shot in bed but was shot coming up the stairs towards the bedroom.
Or shot just after he got out of bed in the bedroom?
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Or shot just after he got out of bed in the bedroom?
No, because the blood stains all belong to June. Plus the bullet entrance wounds are at an angle meaning the shooter was at an elevated position.
Plus If Jeremy had Neville at such a point blank range he would have just put a shot between his eyes or forehead and that would be the end of it.
Knowing this I have devised my own theory on how the events would unfold had Jeremy been the Killer.
1- Jeremy enters via toilet window, Then he walks towards the gun cupboard to get the gun.
2- While Jeremy is getting the gun and ammo from the cupboard Neville wakes up from Jeremy doing this so he gets out of bed and starts to walk quietly downstairs via the main staircase.
3. Unaware that Neville is awake and walking downstairs, Jeremy then goes quietly upstairs via the staircase over the gun cupboard once he is all loaded and ready
4. Neville then walks around downstairs trying to work out what waked him while Jeremy is walking towards the main bedroom upstairs
5. Then Jeremy shoots June several times and was also expecting Neville in there also. Hearing the shots and screams Neville rushes upstairs calling June
6. Jeremy realises Neville is coming upstairs so he is goes towards the bedroom door where he sees him almost up the stairs and the shoots at Neville forcing him to retreat back downstairs towards the kitchen.
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What is very interesting is that if Neville rang Jeremy he had to have done so before he was shot. This scenario is actually corroborated by two pieces of evidence.
1. The alleged call to Jeremy. Neville sais 'Sheila has gone crazy and got the gun' he does not mention being shot or Sheila shooting anyone. This corroborates that Neville rang before he was shot.
2. Neville was not shot in bed, because his side of the bed has no blood stains on them as opposed to June's side of the bed we know she was shot in bed for that very reason. Plus the location of the shell casings don't show Neville was shot in bed but was shot coming up the stairs towards the bedroom.
Neville was shot four times in the bedroom.
Unlike June, who was shot while sleeping with her head on the pillow, Neville woke seconds before suffering the same fate. Hearing June being shot even though the rifle had a silencer on.
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What is very interesting is that if Neville rang Jeremy he had to have done so before he was shot. This scenario is actually corroborated by two pieces of evidence.
1. The alleged call to Jeremy. Neville sais 'Sheila has gone crazy and got the gun' he does not mention being shot or Sheila shooting anyone. This corroborates that Neville rang before he was shot.
2. Neville was not shot in bed, because his side of the bed has no blood stains on them as opposed to June's side of the bed we know she was shot in bed for that very reason. Plus the location of the shell casings don't show Neville was shot in bed but was shot coming up the stairs towards the bedroom.
you mention shell casings when it suits you,yet you cant explain how the 2 casing near sheila were on each side of the body,the rifle ejects spent cases forward and to the right,ive seen your post on the magic shellcase theory,its a bit like JFK but its impossible that shellcase hit the beside cabinet and landed there, ;D
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you mention shell casings when it suits you,yet you cant explain how the 2 casing near sheila were on each side of the body,the rifle ejects spent cases forward and to the right,ive seen your post on the magic shellcase theory,its a bit like JFK but its impossible that shellcase hit the beside cabinet and landed there, ;D
Why don't you suggest how the casings became where they were found instead of disputing posts all the time ?
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No, because the blood stains all belong to June. Plus the bullet entrance wounds are at an angle meaning the shooter was at an elevated position.
Plus If Jeremy had Neville at such a point blank range he would have just put a shot between his eyes or forehead and that would be the end of it.
Knowing this I have devised my own theory on how the events would unfold had Jeremy been the Killer.
1- Jeremy enters via toilet window, Then he walks towards the gun cupboard to get the gun.
2- While Jeremy is getting the gun and ammo from the cupboard Neville wakes up from Jeremy doing this so he gets out of bed and starts to walk quietly downstairs via the main staircase.
3. Unaware that Neville is awake and walking downstairs, Jeremy then goes quietly upstairs via the staircase over the gun cupboard once he is all loaded and ready
4. Neville then walks around downstairs trying to work out what waked him while Jeremy is walking towards the main bedroom upstairs
5. Then Jeremy shoots June several times and was also expecting Neville in there also. Hearing the shots and screams Neville rushes upstairs calling June
6. Jeremy realises Neville is coming upstairs so he is goes towards the bedroom door where he sees him almost up the stairs and the shoots at Neville forcing him to retreat back downstairs towards the kitchen.
was every drop of blood on neville's side tested,imo jb would not have run the risk of making 2 trips ,hence i feel he was already there staying the night,its true he did load the rifle that night but he did NOT leave it out but returned it to the guncupboard,he than calmly woke sometime that morning and done the business
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Why don't you suggest how the casings became where they were found instead of disputing posts all the time ?
do keep up dear,ive already put my view forward ,the shooter 'jb' was on the left hand side of sheila as we look at it'the photo'the angle the bullet entered and where the shellcase was found fits
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No, because the blood stains all belong to June. Plus the bullet entrance wounds are at an angle meaning the shooter was at an elevated position.
Plus If Jeremy had Neville at such a point blank range he would have just put a shot between his eyes or forehead and that would be the end of it.
Knowing this I have devised my own theory on how the events would unfold had Jeremy been the Killer.
1- Jeremy enters via toilet window, Then he walks towards the gun cupboard to get the gun.
2- While Jeremy is getting the gun and ammo from the cupboard Neville wakes up from Jeremy doing this so he gets out of bed and starts to walk quietly downstairs via the main staircase.
3. Unaware that Neville is awake and walking downstairs, Jeremy then goes quietly upstairs via the staircase over the gun cupboard once he is all loaded and ready
4. Neville then walks around downstairs trying to work out what waked him while Jeremy is walking towards the main bedroom upstairs
5. Then Jeremy shoots June several times and was also expecting Neville in there also. Hearing the shots and screams Neville rushes upstairs calling June
6. Jeremy realises Neville is coming upstairs so he is goes towards the bedroom door where he sees him almost up the stairs and the shoots at Neville forcing him to retreat back downstairs towards the kitchen.
I don't think Jeremy would risk faffing about loading the gun; far more likely he had hidden it in the barn or some convenient place. It has to look like Nevill has made a call to Police so either Jeremy finishes everyone off quickly and replaces the bedroom telephone from the kitchen or orders Nevill downstairs at gunpoint, where Nevill makes a dash for the kitchen phone, leaving his bloodied fingerprints on the kitchen worktop. There's also Nevill's blood on the wallpaper in the hall suggesting Jeremy fired at him from the stairs as Nevill made a run towards the kitchen phone.
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you mention shell casings when it suits you,yet you cant explain how the 2 casing near sheila were on each side of the body,the rifle ejects spent cases forward and to the right,ive seen your post on the magic shellcase theory,its a bit like JFK but its impossible that shellcase hit the beside cabinet and landed there, ;D
Of course its possible. go back those experiments I showed you.
As for the general locations, IMO You can see a pattern emerge. I marked them with crosses, The yellow shell cases are from shots to Sheila, 7 of the 8 green shell casings are shots to June and the four Blue shell casings are shots to Neville. (If anyone is wondering why there are 14 shells in the diagram when the official narrative says 13 shots were fired I do not know)
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Of course its possible. go back those experiments I showed you.
As for the general locations, IMO You can see a pattern emerge. I marked them with crosses, The yellow shell cases are from shots to Sheila, 7 of the 8 green shell casings are shots to June and the four Blue shell casings are shots to Neville. (If anyone is wondering why there are 14 shells in the diagram when the official narrative says 13 shots were fired I do not know)
what experiments,you said the bullet case hit the bedside cabinet and landed there,which i sais was impossible ,imo
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what experiments,you said the bullet case hit the bedside cabinet and landed there,which i sais was impossible ,imo
I have attached the PDF below. :)
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Because this heading included mysterious calls,I remember reading about how stroppy Neville was on the phone when speaking to a male. This was shortly before the tragedy or it could even have been on the morning of the 7th.
Anyone else remember Neville's mystery caller ?
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what experiments,you said the bullet case hit the bedside cabinet and landed there,which i sais was impossible ,imo
I agree Sami
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Because this heading included mysterious calls,I remember reading about how stroppy Neville was on the phone when speaking to a male. This was shortly before the tragedy or it could even have been on the morning of the 7th.
Anyone else remember Neville's mystery caller ?
yes good point lookout,i remember it was jb who called :) ;)
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I have attached the PDF below. :)
what rifle was used,also does it say anywhere that the bulletcases landed on the opposite side from where they were ejected
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yes good point lookout,i remember it was jb who called :) ;)
Another xxxxx xxxxxx !
JB was busy in the fields. It was the interfering busybody BW who remembered it.
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Another xxxxx xxxxxx !
JB was busy in the fields. It was the interfering busybody BW who remembered it.
you dont like her much do you lookout,cause she was around the family and gave in insight into jb's personality,and gave a very good interview to the press
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you dont like her much do you lookout,cause she was around the family and gave in insight into jb's personality,and gave a very good interview to the press
She was another one who'd changed her mind because in her first statement she said she found Jeremy pleasant and a likeable fellow and wished her own son was the same,so what do you make of that ?
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I can't stand those who say one thing and mean another.
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She was another one who'd changed her mind because in her first statement she said she found Jeremy pleasant and a likeable fellow and wished her own son was the same,so what do you make of that ?
which statement have you a link to it, :)
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which statement have you a link to it, :)
How much of this case have you actually read or studied,or are you here purely as a " yes " man ?
The archives on here have lists of statements,also if you do a search,you should find it.
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How much of this case have you actually read or studied,or are you here purely as a " yes " man ?
The archives on here have lists of statements,also if you do a search,you should find it.
So you don't know then Lookout?
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what rifle was used,also does it say anywhere that the bulletcases landed on the opposite side from where they were ejected
The scatter plot (Figure 7) illustrates the diversity of spent cartridge casing locations in
all four quadrants versus a concentration in quadrant four as seen in Figure 4 above. Once again
variability in the individual quadrants was found. For this test the spent cartridge casings landed
a minimum distance of only 3.61 inches (9.17 cm) and maximum of 165.41 inches (420.14 cm)
from the zero point.
As this study has shown, factors previously listed including firearm design, firearm
condition, ammunition type, position firearm is held when fired, movement of the firearm and
person during firing, and grip factors such as how, where and how tightly the firearm is held
during firing can affect the locations of spent cartridge casings (Hueske, 2006). This study
illustrated that even when accounting for the above factors, significant variability occurred in the
landing locations of spent cartridge casings. This variability must be considered before efforts
are made to establish the location of a shooter based solely on the location of even an
undisturbed spent cartridge casing or a group of cartridge casings.
They used semi automatic handguns. but if you want to be fussy here is the exact same rife used in the murders in the photo I attached below. As you can see the direction varies allot and the cases are being ejected with considerable speed and force. the most likely scenario is they bounced of the bedside table IMO
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How much of this case have you actually read or studied,or are you here purely as a " yes " man ?
The archives on here have lists of statements,also if you do a search,you should find it.
this is the 3rd time i have to tell you iam here to learn about the case,i dont know everything on it.and your correct iam a yes man for the guilty side :) ;)
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So you don't know then Lookout?
Of course I know----------and so do you too !!
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Of course I know----------and so do you too !!
Of course I do, I generally I help people find articles - I've helped you often enough.
Don't have time to read this but this is BW's statement - don't know if it's the one mentioned.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,974.msg29681.html#msg29681
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The scatter plot (Figure 7) illustrates the diversity of spent cartridge casing locations in
all four quadrants versus a concentration in quadrant four as seen in Figure 4 above. Once again
variability in the individual quadrants was found. For this test the spent cartridge casings landed
a minimum distance of only 3.61 inches (9.17 cm) and maximum of 165.41 inches (420.14 cm)
from the zero point.
As this study has shown, factors previously listed including firearm design, firearm
condition, ammunition type, position firearm is held when fired, movement of the firearm and
person during firing, and grip factors such as how, where and how tightly the firearm is held
during firing can affect the locations of spent cartridge casings (Hueske, 2006). This study
illustrated that even when accounting for the above factors, significant variability occurred in the
landing locations of spent cartridge casings. This variability must be considered before efforts
are made to establish the location of a shooter based solely on the location of even an
undisturbed spent cartridge casing or a group of cartridge casings.
They used semi automatic handguns. but if you want to be fussy here is the exact same rife used in the murders in the photo I attached below. As you can see the direction varies allot and the cases are being ejected with considerable speed and force. the most likely scenario is they bounced of the bedside table IMO
we can disregard the quote in red cause hand guns were used,as for the 4 photos they prove nothing,i would like to see a film of it
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Unfortunately it's not the right statement. She wasn't being chased up for this one !
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we can disregard the quote in red cause hand guns were used,as for the 4 photos they prove nothing,i would like to see a film of it
Are you deliberately being awkward?
https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s (https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s)
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Unfortunately it's not the right statement. She wasn't being chased up for this one !
ive seen the interview only,and it was damming now if you choose to say she said something else then you should provide a link to it,cause most of xxxxx xxx xxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxxx :)
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ive seen the interview only,and it was damming now if you choose to say she said something else then you should provide a link to it,cause most of xxxxx xxx xxxx xx xxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxxxx :)
You're a xxxxx xxxxx xx xxxx ! I've NEVER made anything up. Any more out of you and I'll report you ! It'll be my FIRST report in over 4 years.
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You're a xxxx xxxxx xx xxxxxx ! I've NEVER made anything up. Any more out of you and I'll report you ! It'll be my FIRST report in over 4 years.
OK let's call it the truth as you see it OR the truth you want it to be. Either way, it's not the truth the rest of us see.
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OK let's call it the truth as you see it OR the truth you want it to be. Either way, it's not the truth the rest of us see.
What ? Are you xxxxx ?
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Find it for me please because I WON'T give up that easily----being accused AGAIN !! If you don't produce anything it's not there which means you're once again making trouble for me !!
I'll get in touch with Poppy myself !
If members don't remember it - then they don't remember it. All I care about it that I remember it - as I am sure will Caroline and anyone else who was trying to help you find the BS before you said it was on Poppy's blog.
I've already said that there is NO point in anyone asking Poppy - because SHE DOESN'T CLAIM THAT THERE IS A SECOND COLP REPORT. You, as usual have no idea what you are talking about and are trying to muddy the waters and create confusion - that is your usual trick. The same trick you are trying to pull on Sami over prisoner security in another topic. You are going back on ignore. Hopefully Sami takes the advice on NOT getting involved with a tit for tat with you when it comes to trying to get you to post sources or have you back up/admit to what you've said.
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Claims originated there. But I think they had alot more added to them than even D'Stefano claimed.
Oh, stop. I am not wasting any more time with you, Lookout. You claimed there was a second COLP report that had been kept hidden, you went on about it for days. It was all to do with comments apparently made by AE.
Deny it all you want, doesn't make a difference to me.
There isn't a secret second COLP report. There is only one but there are parts of it withheld and other parts 'missing' they say the reason for this is to prevent JB making more complaints. But to me its just like the destruction of exhibits in 1996, it just shows they have something to hide
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Are you deliberately being awkward?
https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s (https://youtu.be/Bgz0lqGVouo?t=20s)
no i just want to see a clip of it ,moving images :)
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Unfortunately it's not the right statement. She wasn't being chased up for this one !
I have locked this topic, I have removed some posts which are little do do with the subject of the thread and rather a personal attack on one poster.
Personal abuse is not good debate and is unacceptable on this forum. Thank you