Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on February 12, 2016, 09:14:PM
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It is very disturbing that not one single 'recovered' bullet case from the scene, had got 'a follower plate mark' upon them. Now, considering that the alleged murder weapon has been described as the 'anshuzt rifle', which had a '10 shot' magazine, and that 25 shots were fired, with the requirement for at least two 'reloads' of fresh ammunition in order to carry out the task of killing everybody, how come none of these 25 bullet cases have 'this' follower plate mark'?
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The first thing we need to do, is to establish a case for there 'being' such a marked 'feature' on at least one of the 'recovered' bullet cases of which there were a total of 25?
In each 'new' full load of the anshuzt rifles ammunition magazine, only one of the 'brass' cartridge cases rests against the steel 'spring mechanism' plate, causing the plate to leave at first a fine scratch type mark along the brass cartridge case, where both the cartridge and the follower plate first come into contact with one another. When the magazine is empty the steel follower plate is at its highest position inside it. With the first insertion of a round, the bullet is pressed into the magazine and comes into direct contact with the aforementioned steel plate. The spring intensified plate is forced downward with the insertion of the very first bullet by a process of dynamic tension, which 'increases each time an additional bullet is inserted into the magazine. The 'pressure' which exists between cartridge and follower plate, alters with every load of additional rounds, until by the time the magazine has been loaded with 10 bullets, the 'pressure' is at its greatest between the aforementioned plate and the first loaded cartridge. This pressure involving contact between steel and brass is not replicated anywhere else inside the ammunition magazine, because with the exception of the last 'loaded' round of 10 into the magazine, all other brass cartridges, are brass against brass contact (rounds 2 to 9). The 10th cartridge does not have contact marks with another similar cartridge above and below, whereas, cartridges 2 to 9, do...
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All 10 of these loaded rounds will inevitably have got 'jaw marks' from the jaws of the ammunition magazine, upon them once they were physically loaded into it...
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All 10 of these loaded rounds will inevitably have got 'jaw marks' from the jaws of the ammunition magazine, upon them once they were physically loaded into it...
Cartridges 2 to 9 will be marked above and below with 'contact' marks ( brass against brass) caused as a result of being 'trapped' in between other brass cartridges in the sequence...
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In addition to these magazine and loading marks, each fired cartridge case will also have got a 'firing pin'' mark, and marks caused during the extraction and ejection process...
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It is therefore possible to categorise the 10 rounds inside a fully loaded ammunition magazine, by reference to the position of each round sat inside it as 'distinctive' types, as follows:-
1st round loaded - type 1
2nd round loaded - type 2
3rd round loaded - type 2
4th round loaded - type 2
5th round loaded - type 2
6th round loaded - type 2
7th round loaded - type 2
8th round loaded - type 2
9th round loaded - type 2
10th round loaded - type 3
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Working on the assumption that each full load of the rifles ammunition was 'fired' until the ammunition magazine was 'emptied', followed by 'another' full load of 10 rounds, which followed the 'same course' as the previous 10, and 'a further' 5 rounds were 'loaded' up, and fired, so that by the end of 'this' activity a total of 25 shots had been fired, with five victims dead, you would end up with 3 'type 1' cartridge cases, 19 'type 2 cartridge cases, and 3 'type 3' cartridge cases, dispersed in specific locations around the crime scene...
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Working on the assumption that each full load of the rifles ammunition was 'fired' until the ammunition magazine was 'emptied', followed by 'another' full load of 10 rounds, which followed the 'same course' as the previous 10, and 'a further' 5 rounds were 'loaded' up, and fired, so that by the end of 'this' activity a total of 25 shots had been fired, with five victims dead, you would end up with 3 'type 1' cartridge cases, 19 'type 2 cartridge cases, and 3 'type 3' cartridge cases, dispersed in specific locations around the crime scene...
At least one 'type 3' brass cartridge case would have been 'found' close to the body of Sheila, designating that the very 'last' round had been 'fired' from the anshuzt rifle, leaving the weapon 'empty of bullets', unless of course, the anshuzt rifle still had rounds loaded inside it...
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At least one 'type 3' brass cartridge case would have been 'found' close to the body of Sheila, designating that the very 'last' round had been 'fired' from the anshuzt rifle, leaving the weapon 'empty of bullets', unless of course, the anshuzt rifle still had rounds loaded inside it...
No 'type 3' brass cartridge was found anywhere inside the vicinity of 'the main bedroom', so either (a) Sheila was shot somewhere else inside the farmhouse, (b) if she was shot and killed in the bedroom with use of the anshuzt rifle, the bullet that 'killed' her was not the last round already loaded into the gun...
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With 100% certainty, it can be said that 'if' Sheila had been shot twice whilst her body was upstairs in the main bedroom, that amongst that batch of brass cartridge cases recovered from there would have included, one 'type 2', and one 'type 1' brass cartridge case, associated with her death. The problem which Essex police are faced with is that there is 'no type 3' brass cartridge cases amongst any of the 25 brass cartridge casings 'found' at the scene of this tragedy...
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With 100% certainty, it can be said that 'if' Sheila had been shot twice whilst her body was upstairs in the main bedroom, that amongst that batch of brass cartridge cases recovered from there would have included, one 'type 2', and one 'type 1' brass cartridge case, associated with her death. The problem which Essex police are faced with is that there is 'no type 3' brass cartridge cases amongst any of the 25 brass cartridge casings 'found' at the scene of this tragedy...
This is an impossibility if there were only 25 rounds loaded into the anshuzt rifle, and that 'it' had fired all the 25 shots in question, resulting in the five deaths, with the anshuzt rifle ending up 'empty' once the 25th shot had been 'fired'...
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There are no 'type 3' brass cartridge cases amongst the 'recovered' brass casings taken at the scene. A maximum of 3, or a minimum of at least 1 are missing. Somebody has 'tampered' with the 'batch' of recovered 'brass cartridge cases' from the crime scene...
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There are no 'type 3' brass cartridge cases amongst the 'recovered' brass casings taken at the scene. A maximum of 3, or a minimum of at least 1 are missing. Somebody has 'tampered' with the 'batch' of recovered 'brass cartridge cases' from the crime scene...
I pose the question, why?
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If, Sheila had been found upstairs laid on the bedroom floor (as depicted by the position of her body as shown in PC Birds crime scene photographs taken some two and a half hours after firearm officers had first set foot into the farmhouse) with the anshuzt rifle 'firmly' in her possession, empty of bullets, in keeping with what police are telling us, then where is the corresponding 'type 3' brass cartridge case, which had been nestling firmly against the ammunition magazines 'steel' follower plate for however long it took to load it, and the duration with which it remained insitu, until the moment came for 'that' very same round to be discharged, sending the lead bullet up into Sheila Caffells brain, and 'its' brass cartridge case presumably extracted and ejected close to her body?
Where is it?
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It's missing...
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The anshuzt rifle could not possibly be 'empty of bullets' and there be no 'type 3' brass cartridge case in close proximity to her body...
Impossible scenario...
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Impossible, I say unless...
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Impossible, I say unless...
Somebody 'tampered' with the recovered 'brass casings' from the scene...
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Alternatively...
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Alternatively...
The 'last round fired' was not fired from 'a semi automatic rifle' at all, but rather, 'it was 'fired' from a bolt action rifle, meaning that the 'type 3' brass cartridge associated with that last bullet, was 'not' extracted, or ejected, from the breach of the murderous weapon. Instead the killer took 'that' all important 'type 3' brass cartridge away with him, it remaining insitu in the breech of his 'bolt action rifle'. To my knowledge the Bamber family 'did not' own such a bolt action rifle, but Anthony Pargeter, did...
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It is known that at least two different weapons were used in these shootings, possibly as many as three. As a result, what may have been done is that during the 'wholesale substitution' process of brass cartridge cases, so that police could present the investigation as a one gun crime, that all the 'type 3' brass cartridge cases which were originally taken from the scene were 'systematically removed' because each of these contained 'evidence' of a 'firing pin mark, distinctive to a different weapon, not including the anshuzt rifle...
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What is not yet clear, is whether or not, at least one of the murder weapons was a 'centre fire' gun, as opposed to the other two, being 'rim fire' types...
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Marks on bullets would indicate whether a silencer was fitted during firing. Were they checked ?
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Marks on bullets would indicate whether a silencer was fitted during firing. Were they checked ?
I'm afraid that simply isn't true, no such marks are caused.
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I'm afraid that simply isn't true, no such marks are caused.
I'd read a couple of weeks ago that it was possible to tell. It was somewhere where people were talking about guns where it had said that there was a difference inasmuch as the bullets left marks when fired with a silencer attached.
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I'd read a couple of weeks ago that it was possible to tell. It was somewhere where people were talking about guns where it had said that there was a difference inasmuch as the bullets left marks when fired with a silencer attached.
Just because you read it somewhere (god knows where), doesn't make it true!
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Just because you read it somewhere (god knows where), doesn't make it true!
On one of the gun expert sites. So they're not experts then. ???
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On one of the gun expert sites. So they're not experts then. ???
Like Judges -and US- I imagine there to be differences of opinion.
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Like Judges -and US- I imagine there to be differences of opinion.
There are " differences " every step of the way in this case. Maybe if the professionals got it right first time there'd be no need for any quibbling.
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There are " differences " every step of the way in this case. Maybe if the professionals got it right first time there'd be no need for any quibbling.
I believe you're asking for something which simply may not be possible -I'm often amazed by what different doctors will say about the same problem but I usually pick the diagnosis I like best!!!- it may just have to come down to compromise, which maybe something you're not too hot on.
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I believe you're asking for something which simply may not be possible -I'm often amazed by what different doctors will say about the same problem but I usually pick the diagnosis I like best!!!- it may just have to come down to compromise, which maybe something you're not too hot on.
Compromise was never in my vocabulary with the job I had. It had to be right or else,as I would hope you'll understand. You can't juggle with a patient's life.
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ngb, do you have an opinion on follower plate markings in the context of this old thread?
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I don't know about them Roch, but I read somewhere that they weren't all the same. Whether it was the non-consecutive numbers or a difference in make I wouldn't know. I can't even remember where I'd read it, but there'd been a marked difference in a couple of them.