Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: David1819 on December 15, 2015, 07:11:PM

Title: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: David1819 on December 15, 2015, 07:11:PM
Looking at the high resolution photo from the sky3 documentary what caught my eye is what seems to be a black mark on Shelia's finger. Once I had seen this in the Sky3 photo Its now obvious to see in the low resolution photos also.

(http://s9.postimg.org/53sjnnxkv/blackmarks.jpg)


I don't know what to make of it. Has this been raised or mentioned before?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 07:21:PM
Mole,shadow or ring--------------take yer pick. Her hands were spotless you see.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: guest154 on December 15, 2015, 07:34:PM
Looks like shadow to me.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 07:41:PM
Or a black onyx ring.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 07:49:PM
Sheila did have a ring on but I can't recall which finger it was on.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 15, 2015, 08:13:PM
Its a ring!
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: David1819 on December 15, 2015, 08:14:PM
Looks like shadow to me.

It's not a shadow. Firstly there is nothing to create this shadow and secondly you won't have a shadow appearing the same in multiple images at multiple angles. My first guess it could be stains from a copper or bronze ring but those stains are green or blue
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 08:19:PM
I'll get my jewellers magnifier to look at the smaller pic.showing the shank.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: guest154 on December 15, 2015, 08:21:PM
It's not a shadow. Firstly there is nothing to create this shadow and secondly you won't have a shadow appearing the same in multiple images at multiple angles. My first guess it could be stains from a copper or bronze ring but those stains are green or blue

Oh, well I was wrong. Won't be the last time.  ;D
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: David1819 on December 15, 2015, 08:23:PM
Its a ring!

No it's not, it does not go round the finger entirely it's like a round mark . It's too ugly and unsightly to be jewelry. If that's a ring then Its a half eaten liquorice ring
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 08:24:PM
It's not a shadow. Firstly there is nothing to create this shadow and secondly you won't have a shadow appearing the same in multiple images at multiple angles. My first guess it could be stains from a copper or bronze ring but those stains are green or blue





That's a dark blue stain,isn't it ? A cheapo ring.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: David1819 on December 15, 2015, 08:26:PM
Oh, well I was wrong. Won't be the last time.  ;D

I still like your theory of Jeremy disabling the floor tho. You never know  ;D
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: guest154 on December 15, 2015, 08:27:PM
I still like your theory of Jeremy disabling the floor tho. You never know  ;D

Get back in your cage!  ;D
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 08:30:PM
Jewellers magnifier no good at such close quarters on a laptop unless examining a stone in real life. However,there's a sheen coming from it but I don't know about the discoloration underneath it. Dye ?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 15, 2015, 08:30:PM
No it's not, it does not go round the finger entirely it's like a round mark . It's too ugly and unsightly to be jewelry. If that's a ring then Its a half eaten liquorice ring

Really?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: David1819 on December 15, 2015, 08:32:PM


That's a dark blue stain,isn't it ? A cheapo ring.

Possible but it seems to apparent and it's black not blue.

(http://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/qKEYjBkQIDtHqplOXp4Xnw/o.jpg)
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 08:35:PM
Gold doesn't mark. Silver will if you've been using chemicals.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 08:39:PM
I wonder if it's a bruise ? Or even a break as it goes that colour. On Sheila's hand/knuckle/finger.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: David1819 on December 15, 2015, 08:40:PM
Really?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes really! This is no yellow ring
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 15, 2015, 08:40:PM
Possible but it seems to apparent and it's black not blue.

(http://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/qKEYjBkQIDtHqplOXp4Xnw/o.jpg)

It's a bloody ring!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 08:43:PM
You can damage yourself when wearing a ring if you happen to get it caught in anything,and it hurts because it happened to me years ago. Thus leaving a bruise.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 15, 2015, 08:44:PM
You can damage yourself when wearing a ring if you happen to get it caught in anything,and it hurts because it happened to me years ago. Thus leaving a bruise.

But it's not a bruise, it's a ring! Venezis mentions it in his report. Not that it makes any difference  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Jane on December 15, 2015, 08:45:PM
You can damage yourself when wearing a ring if you happen to get it caught in anything,and it hurts because it happened to me years ago. Thus leaving a bruise.


I wonder what could Sheila possibly have got it caught in?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: David1819 on December 15, 2015, 08:46:PM
It's a bloody ring!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How does a yellow ring turn into something black? That typed autopsy shows Vanesiz cannot read his own terrible hand writing from his first autopsy report.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 08:49:PM

But it's not a bruise, it's a ring! Venezis mentions it in his report. Not that it makes any difference  ;D ;D ;D ;D






Okay okay,a jewelled one at that as opposed to a plain gold one. Maybe a cabochon Sapphire.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 15, 2015, 08:49:PM
How does a yellow ring turn into something black? That typed autopsy shows Vanesiz cannot read his own terrible hand writing from his first autopsy report.

It's a ring David - not sure what you're trying to make out of this but it's not gun oil if that's what you're insinuating!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: guest154 on December 15, 2015, 09:06:PM
No it's not, it does not go round the finger entirely it's like a round mark .

To be honest, David. I don't think we can tell from the pics that it doesn't go all around the finger because we can't see enough of the finger. It looks like it does to me.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: guest154 on December 15, 2015, 09:54:PM
I remember now why I don't bother to come on here very often.

What do you think of the mark/shadow/bruise/sign of the devil?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 10:16:PM
There was no bullet box in the bedroom.  ;D





In CC's book there was. It was him that had said it,probably much to everyone else's annoyance.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 15, 2015, 10:17:PM




In CC's book there was. It was him that had said it,probably much to everyone else's annoyance.

What page?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 10:18:PM
What page?





Oh I'll have to get the book out of the cupboard. Just a mo.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 15, 2015, 10:23:PM




Oh I'll have to get the book out of the cupboard. Just a mo.

Ta
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 15, 2015, 10:31:PM
Ta






Page 35. It's where it's written in italics as the " sequence of events ". "Ten round ammunition case nearby" It was next to where Sheila lay.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2015, 12:39:AM





Page 35. It's where it's written in italics as the " sequence of events ". "Ten round ammunition case nearby" It was next to where Sheila lay.

Thanks Lookout, will read it at some point tomorrow but 10 rounds makes me think he means the magazine on the rifle?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2015, 11:11:AM
Thanks Lookout, will read it at some point tomorrow but 10 rounds makes me think he means the magazine on the rifle?





Ammunition case nearby--------would indicate that refills were taken upstairs,thus my suggestion that because Sheila found it difficult to load the full quota in one go,she'd fed the bullets one by one.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: David1819 on December 16, 2015, 03:19:PM




Ammunition case nearby--------would indicate that refills were taken upstairs,thus my suggestion that because Sheila found it difficult to load the full quota in one go,she'd fed the bullets one by one.

It only got difficult to reload past 7 or 8 bullets if I remember correctly. Anyone could have put in at least five or six bullets until the spring in the magazine made it harder. Feeding the bullets one by one would make her two shot suicide extremely enlikley lookout lol
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: guest7363 on December 16, 2015, 05:55:PM




Ammunition case nearby--------would indicate that refills were taken upstairs,thus my suggestion that because Sheila found it difficult to load the full quota in one go,she'd fed the bullets one by one.
Don't forget Lookout, she was in her nightie with no pockets to carry anything or she was naked like some have suggested, would be extremely hard to carry bullets cases magazines fight Ralph off reload etc don't you think?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2015, 07:02:PM
As I thought, he's talking about the magazine.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: guest154 on December 16, 2015, 07:14:PM
As I thought, he's talking about the magazine.

Was he? Thanks for clarifying, but it was pretty clear he would be (to anyone with even half a brain) because we all know what WASN'T found in the bedroom, so why would be be saying it was.

Easy answer.

He wasn't.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Jane on December 16, 2015, 07:29:PM
Was he? Thanks for clarifying, but it was pretty clear he would be (to anyone with even half a brain) because we all know what WASN'T found in the bedroom, so why would be be saying it was.

Easy answer.

He wasn't.


Howz about her finger was black -IF it was black and not shadow, and IF it wasn't coz she's worn a cheapo ring- because the pen leaked that she used to write the suicide note that the police allegedly had away before anyone saw it so there's no proof it was ever there?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2015, 08:17:PM
Don't forget Lookout, she was in her nightie with no pockets to carry anything or she was naked like some have suggested, would be extremely hard to carry bullets cases magazines fight Ralph off reload etc don't you think?






I haven't forgotten. What about the empty bullet box found in the bedroom used to carry the bullets ?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2015, 08:21:PM





I haven't forgotten. What about the empty bullet box found in the bedroom used to carry the bullets ?

There wasn't any empty box - Colin is talking about the magazine  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2015, 08:22:PM

Howz about her finger was black -IF it was black and not shadow, and IF it wasn't coz she's worn a cheapo ring- because the pen leaked that she used to write the suicide note that the police allegedly had away before anyone saw it so there's no proof it was ever there?

It was a ring - no conspiracy.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2015, 08:28:PM
Find that long list of items and the vicinity of the house where they were,you'll see that there's an " empty box/container " in the bedroom because I remember querying as to whether it had been fingerprinted-----------just as if !
Why wasn't it photographed along with all the other items ?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2015, 08:33:PM
--------------along with the 10 round ammunition case.What was it doing near Sheila in the bedroom anyway ? It's on one of the police statements.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 16, 2015, 08:49:PM
--------------along with the 10 round ammunition case.What was it doing near Sheila in the bedroom anyway ? It's on one of the police statements.

Lookout the 10 round ammunition case IS THE MAGAZINE!
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2015, 09:09:PM
Lookout the 10 round ammunition case IS THE MAGAZINE!





Transported in an empty box upstairs.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 16, 2015, 09:22:PM
To prove that Sheila showed anger as opposed to fear was the incident when she'd bunked school and instead of spending money on bus fare she thumbed a lift. This lift could have proved disasterous when the driver who'd previously lectured  her  on the dangers of being picked up by strangers,began to try his hand on this young teenage schoolgirl. Sheila immediately displayed anger and fought the man off then carried on with her journey on foot. Anyone else " of a nervous disposition " would have been scared stiff-----or not thumbed a lift to start with,so there was always that element of fight in her rather than fright,so she was more than capable,being older and stronger,of displaying a more severe episode of anger.
CC had said that she'd had a vicious temper. So something rattled her that night.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 17, 2015, 04:42:PM




Transported in an empty box upstairs.

What empty box?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Adam on December 19, 2015, 09:03:PM
Just looks like a shadow to me.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 19, 2015, 09:18:PM
Just looks like a shadow to me.

Even though Venezis said it was a ring?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Adam on December 19, 2015, 09:21:PM
Is it a ring then ? I didn't know that.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 19, 2015, 09:32:PM
Is it a ring then ? I didn't know that.

This thread is ONLY 4 pages long Adam, if you HAD READ IT you would have seen that on page 1 there is an exert from Venezis's report stating that Sheila had a ring on the ring finger of the right hand. See what you miss when you only read your own stuff?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Adam on December 19, 2015, 09:34:PM
This thread is ONLY 4 pages long Adam, if you HAD READ IT you would have seen that on page 1 there is an exert from Venezis's report stating that Sheila had a ring on the ring finger of the right hand. See what you miss when you only read your own stuff?

I did read the four pages. And said it looked like a shadow.

But if it's a ring, that is fine.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 19, 2015, 09:36:PM
I did read the four pages. And said it looked like a shadow.

But if it's a ring, that is fine.

By the way http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3628.msg142028.html#msg142028  ;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: David1819 on December 19, 2015, 10:49:PM
I did read the four pages. And said it looked like a shadow.

But if it's a ring, that is fine.

The autopsy sais she has a yellow ring on that finger, however it looks anything but yellow. who knows  :-\
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 19, 2015, 10:58:PM
The autopsy sais she has a yellow ring on that finger, however it looks anything but yellow. who knows  :-\

In that picture.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 20, 2015, 11:18:AM
Muck.

In any case,if a lubricant was used,there'd have been no gsr.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 20, 2015, 12:23:PM
Muck.

In any case,if a lubricant was used,there'd have been no gsr.

What are you taking about? You are determined to make it sound as though she had dirt from the rifle on her hand - even though I have posted Venezis's report that states it was a ring. This is dishonest Lookout and clearly desperate. Hiding from the facts won't make Jeremy innocent.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 20, 2015, 12:45:PM
What are you taking about? You are determined to make it sound as though she had dirt from the rifle on her hand - even though I have posted Venezis's report that states it was a ring. This is dishonest Lookout and clearly desperate. Hiding from the facts won't make Jeremy innocent.






Nothing desperate nor dishonest as I DIDN'T mention " dirt from the rifle " at all !! I was thinking more about the fireplace and whatever Sheila may have handled from around that area. Fireplaces are mucky areas when ash collects.
I DON'T hide from facts either,as Jeremy IS innocent and I make no pretence or excuse in saying so.

It's certainly not ME who's dishonest ! You're doing what EP did by making things up that aren't there !!
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 20, 2015, 12:58:PM





Nothing desperate nor dishonest as I DIDN'T mention " dirt from the rifle " at all !! I was thinking more about the fireplace and whatever Sheila may have handled from around that area. Fireplaces are mucky areas when ash collects.
I DON'T hide from facts either,as Jeremy IS innocent and I make no pretence or excuse in saying so.

It's certainly not ME who's dishonest ! You're doing what EP did by making things up that aren't there !!

What am I making up Lookout? I posted the evidence which is more than you ever do! You choose to live in denial and that's your prerogative but when you post it here, it's up to be challenged!! You didn't mention anything about the fire. Yu admitted it was a ring but once gun oil was mentioned, you changed and said it was dirt. Here is the evidence again, I don't make things up - I don't have to!!!!!
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 20, 2015, 01:12:PM
Who's desperate,then ? Nothing else to find to nitpick about ?
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 20, 2015, 01:16:PM
Who's desperate,then ? Nothing else to find to nitpick about ?

No Lookout but you NEVER admit to being wrong an clearly are in this instance - if you admitted it more often, you might get more respect but you twist out of it every time!
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: lookout on December 20, 2015, 01:57:PM
No Lookout but you NEVER admit to being wrong an clearly are in this instance - if you admitted it more often, you might get more respect but you twist out of it every time!





But I'm NOT wrong !! Why should I admit to something that I know WASN'T meant in the same context as it was taken---------namely by you.

Why can't you accept that I am on the innocent side like I've had to accept your guilty side.? I don't need continuous snipes at every post I make. The forum has become toxic ! It's horrible.

 It's what happens when you" rub shoulders" with the deranged one on red-------who not only "wished me dead  by telling me to top myself, but to also go and visit Dignitas "( same thing ) . And you speak of respect ?? Tsk.

I'm not here to gain anyone's respect,in fact I couldn't imagine the word " respect " used here !
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Caroline on December 20, 2015, 03:37:PM




But I'm NOT wrong !! Why should I admit to something that I know WASN'T meant in the same context as it was taken---------namely by you.

Why can't you accept that I am on the innocent side like I've had to accept your guilty side.? I don't need continuous snipes at every post I make. The forum has become toxic ! It's horrible.

 It's what happens when you" rub shoulders" with the deranged one on red-------who not only "wished me dead  by telling me to top myself, but to also go and visit Dignitas "( same thing ) . And you speak of respect ?? Tsk.

I'm not here to gain anyone's respect,in fact I couldn't imagine the word " respect " used here !

I have no idea what you're talking about - stick to the point - who mentioned the red forum???! You were wrong but you won't admit it, plain and simple! You're doing the same as you always do - go off on a rant about how people are always getting at you. The only reason I and several other pull you up about things is because you can't admit to being wrong and insist there is no evidence when people have gone out of their way to find it for you. You know fine well that is a ring, you even said so yourself UNTIL you thought you might be able to make more out of it. You said that because I was adamant is was a ring you now believed it can't be! What kind of an argument is that? I posted the proof if fail to take it onboard you are simply in denial!
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: Jane on December 20, 2015, 03:48:PM





Nothing desperate nor dishonest as I DIDN'T mention " dirt from the rifle " at all !! I was thinking more about the fireplace and whatever Sheila may have handled from around that area. Fireplaces are mucky areas when ash collects.
I DON'T hide from facts either,as Jeremy IS innocent and I make no pretence or excuse in saying so.

It's certainly not ME who's dishonest ! You're doing what EP did by making things up that aren't there !!


I'm curious to know on/in which part of a lighted, wood burning(?) Aga Sheila placed enough of her hand in, in order to get coal dust under the ring she was wearing.
Title: Re: Black mark on Sheilas finger?
Post by: guest154 on December 20, 2015, 06:52:PM

I'm curious to know on/in which part of a lighted, wood burning(?) Aga Sheila placed enough of her hand in, in order to get coal dust under the ring she was wearing.

And why didn't such dust wash off in the shower, Sheila was clean remember, supporters believe she ritually cleaned...

Lots of different arguements put forth by supporters as fact - none of which are compatible with each other. If it's muck (which is ISN'T proof has been posted twice now that it's a ring) then it means she didn't shower, and if she didn't shower that opens up many other holes - in as much as why was there no blood etc on her.

I thought it was a shadow  at first, evidence proved me wrong. NO problem admitting that.