Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on November 16, 2015, 11:35:PM
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My last poll had a very surprising result. Rather than Sheila being woken and Bamber using a variety of available methods to move her a few feet, it seems most posters believe Sheila was already in the main bedroom. I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised. It was discussed by Susan, Jan and Caroline in October and suggested again by April, Caroline and Maggie last weekend.
Have never seen a problem with Bamber getting Sheila into his chosen position myself. With the almost certain fact that Sheila would not have woken until it was her turn, and the absolute fact that Sheila's feet and hands did not have June's blood on, there were only two options. Polls don't lie and posters do not agree with the police's version of events.
A major thing supporters bring up was Sheila being shot twice. Correct claims are made by supporters that two shot suicides happen, to suggest Sheila shot herself. However supporters never suggest Bamber may have found this out during his months of planning and would not have hesitated to fire a second shot.
Was leaving Sheila alive with one bullet and possibly surviving his best option, as supporters claim. Or was shooting her a second time and killing her a better option ?
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My last poll had a very surprising result. Rather than Sheila being woken and Bamber using a variety of available methods to move her a few feet, it seems most posters believe Sheila was already in the main bedroom.
Have never seen a problem with Bamber getting Sheila into his chosen position myself. But with the almost certain fact that Sheila would not have woken until it was her turn, and the absolute fact that Sheila's feet and hands did not have June's blood on, there were only two options. It seems posters believe she was already in the main bedroom, rather than woken and lead/moved there.
A major thing supporters bring up was Sheila being shot twice. Correct claims are made by supporters that two shot suicides happen, to suggest Sheila shot herself. However supporters never suggest Bamber may have found this out during his months of planning and would not have hesitated to fire a second shot.
Was leaving Sheila alive with one bullet and possibly surviving his best option. Or was shooting her a second time and killing her a better option ?
Why edit photographic records?
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Must admit looking at the options, there are lots of reasons why Bamber would fire a second shot.
Have never been convinced of his possible innocence because there were two bullets in Sheila. Quite the reverse, as two shot suicides are rare.
Sheila would have been in extreme pain after the first shot and would have naturally put her hand to the wound. However there was no blood on her hand. The 'Inheritance Killers' video says the pathologist said Sheila would be incapable of firing a second shot.
If anyone has any further reasons for Bamber to fire either one or two bullets, let me know and I will add it to the poll. Who knows there may be another surprising result.
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Congratulations, Adam. In your ongoing quest for aggrandisement, you've surpassed yourself in the stupidity stakes. You've limited this senseless poll to those of us who believe Jeremy to be guilty -those who think he's innocent believe he wasn't there- and all of us, other than yourself, it seems, are more than capable of working out his numerous options for ourselves. We are also aware that, whilst alternatives and options are numerous, there can only ever be ONE choice and those of us who believe him to be there at the time and guilty of the crime, have no need of a poll from which to decide which ONE choice he made from his numerous options.
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I don't believe that on the night Bamber thought an option was to suggest to the police 'it was Crispy', 'it was automst8c gun nerves', or that Neville said to him 'she has' rather than 'Sheila'.
These were just things Bamber said when under pressure while being questioned by police.
I also don't believe that on the night Bamber considered the option that he could blame the police for Sheila's two shots. This has been suggested decades later by the OS.
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You don't even know the history of where or why the suggestion came from about Sheila already being in the main bedroom so it's probably not a good idea fr you to discuss it. As for the above suggestions; why would Jeremy 'suggest' any reason for the second shot? That would kind of put him in the frame so best for him (and possibly you) just to keep quiet!
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I do believe that Bamber was well aware that his chosen weapon was weak. This is why he went straight for head shots at June and Neville.
He would have known there was a possibility that Sheila would need two shots, and he had read up on whether two shot suicides happen.
After firing well over 20 bullets into everyone else, he felt comfortable in firing a second bullet into Sheila, after the first bullet did not kill her. Although obviously he would have preferred one bullet to have done the job.
He had also steeled himself to commit a 5x execution. Leaving Sheila alive, perhaps to survive was not an option.
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If Bamber had not envisaged perhaps having to shoot Sheila twice, then he made an instant decision about what was the best alternative -
Sheila perhaps surviving, and blaming Bamber.
Or Sheila dead, with two bullets.
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If Bamber had not envisaged perhaps having to shoot Sheila twice, then he made an instant decision about what was the best alternative -
Sheila perhaps surviving, and blaming Bamber.
Or Sheila dead, with two bullets.
I very much doubt he 'envisaged' it! I very much doubt a two shot suicide was part of his plan!
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If Bamber had not envisaged perhaps having to shoot Sheila twice, then he made an instant decision about what was the best alternative -
Sheila perhaps surviving, and blaming Bamber.
Or Sheila dead, with two bullets.
Crikey that must have taken you a long time to think that one up
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If Bamber had left Sheila alive with one bullet, what could his plan be ?
If he rang the police with the story about Neville's call, then the police find Sheila alive, and she blames Bamber, that really puts him in trouble.
However if he does nothing and Sheila survives, he can't claim Neville called him, which supports his murder/suicide frame And Sheila would still blame Bamber.
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"Shoot Sheila again and suggest it was Crispy. This is in the police interviews."
Show the documents. Never read that one before lol
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I do believe that Bamber was well aware that his chosen weapon was weak. This is why he went straight for head shots at June and Neville.
He would have known there was a possibility that Sheila would need two shots, and he had read up on whether two shot suicides happen.
After firing well over 20 bullets into everyone else, he felt comfortable in firing a second bullet into Sheila, after the first bullet did not kill her. Although obviously he would have preferred one bullet to have done the job.
He had also steeled himself to commit a 5x execution. Leaving Sheila alive, perhaps to survive was not an option.
Hi Adam, If Jeremy Bamber had expected to kill Sheila with the first shot to the neck, do you think (know) he panicked when he found he hadn't killed her and without any thought shot her again? have you considered (know) why didn't he suffocate her instead? Sheila would have been unconscious or at least seriously incapacitated he could easily have put a pillow over her head or shot her in the head, mouth? Wouldn't it have made far more sense if he had staged the second shot through the roof of her mouth as that would have seemed easier for Sheila to do?
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"Shoot Sheila again and suggest it was Crispy. This is in the police interviews."
Show the documents. Never read that one before lol
Will do later. Interview transcripts on Red.
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Crikey that must have taken you a long time to think that one up
;)
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Will do later. Interview transcripts on Red.
Interview transcripts are on HERE!!
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I'm actually reading Doctor Craig's statement /findings as he entered WHF that morning. He'd been told it was a siege prior to him entering.
When his investigation came to Sheila,he clearly stated that,quote " Sheila's body was on the floor with a rifle lying lengthwise on the body,with the muzzle pointing towards her head and I think the right hand was on the butt : the appearance suggested that she had taken her own life.I only saw one gunshot at that stage "-unquote.
Dr.Craig had first spoken of how he'd found Neville ( who he knew ) which tells me that he'd gone straight into the kitchen when he saw two bodies.There was no mention of him going upstairs at that stage ?
The doctor went on to say that " when he'd left the house there was clearly an assumption by those present that the incident was a murder/suicide.I didn't dissent from this ".
" The reason I accepted this theory was based on what I had seen added to the facts related to me by Ch.Supt.Harris."
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NB Bamber was outside at the time that Craig went inside via the kitchen.!!
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Bamber did NOT kill anyone !!
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I'm actually reading Doctor Craig's statement /findings as he entered WHF that morning. He'd been told it was a siege prior to him entering.
When his investigation came to Sheila,he clearly stated that,quote " Sheila's body was on the floor with a rifle lying lengthwise on the body,with the muzzle pointing towards her head and I think the right hand was on the butt : the appearance suggested that she had taken her own life.I only saw one gunshot at that stage "-unquote.
Dr.Craig had first spoken of how he'd found Neville ( who he knew ) which tells me that he'd gone straight into the kitchen when he saw two bodies.There was no mention of him going upstairs at that stage ?
The doctor went on to say that " when he'd left the house there was clearly an assumption by those present that the incident was a murder/suicide.I didn't dissent from this ".
" The reason I accepted this theory was based on what I had seen added to the facts related to me by Ch.Supt.Harris."
So because he doesn't mention going upstairs, you're suggesting he didn't? Does he mention going upstairs at all? Does he mention coming down - if he doesn't, can we assume he never did? Grasping at straws Lookout.
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Bamber did NOT kill anyone !!
How does what anything you have posted point to Jeremy being innocent? The doctor didn't mention going up stairs so Jeremy must be innocent? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I NEVER grasp at straws,neither do I invent silly suggestions or cobble-up nonsensical threads.
I've as much right to give my opinion/s as anyone else,without the need for any crass remarks.
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I do believe that Bamber was well aware that his chosen weapon was weak. This is why he went straight for head shots at June and Neville.
He would have known there was a possibility that Sheila would need two shots, and he had read up on whether two shot suicides happen.
After firing well over 20 bullets into everyone else, he felt comfortable in firing a second bullet into Sheila, after the first bullet did not kill her. Although obviously he would have preferred one bullet to have done the job.
He had also steeled himself to commit a 5x execution. Leaving Sheila alive, perhaps to survive was not an option.
Have you listened to yourself? Running on about a "weak" weapon!!!!!! Had it been poorly? Did it have a fever? Do you realize that you're saying he CHOSE to use a weapon that he KNEW may take more than one shot to kill her and in preparation checked the possibility of two shot suicides. As a one shot suicide is far more likely to convince than a two shot, given the effort you say he went to, any plans he made would surely have been to do the job accurately FIRST time. He ballsed it up Adam, pure and simply, which left him with no alternative OTHER than choosing to take a second shot or risk her living.
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I NEVER grasp at straws,neither do I invent silly suggestions or cobble-up nonsensical threads.
I've as much right to give my opinion/s as anyone else,without the need for any crass remarks.
Yeah - well practice what you PREACH!!
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There is a thread on Bamber's interview transcripts. I will get it for David.
It is amazing how evasive Bamber was.
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Have you listened to yourself? Running on about a "weak" weapon!!!!!! Had it been poorly? Did it have a fever? Do you realize that you're saying he CHOSE to use a weapon that he KNEW may take more than one shot to kill her and in preparation checked the possibility of two shot suicides. As a one shot suicide is far more likely to convince than a two shot, given the effort you say he went to, any plans he made would surely have been to do the job accurately FIRST time. He ballsed it up Adam, pure and simply, which left him with no alternative OTHER than choosing to take a second shot or risk her living.
I am curious, does anyone know if after Sheila was shot the first time and the killer had chosen to suffocate her with a pillow to finish her off rather than taking the risk of a second shot, would the pathologist have been able to tell she had been suffocated and not just died of her wound? :-\
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4847.msg204169.html#msg204169
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Over 30 'No comments' & 'can't remembers'. Over 10 -don't knows' & 'can't say'.
Several one word answers as well as vague answers such as 'not really', 'I think so' & 'less than 40 but more than 10 !'
The police had to often ask the same simple questions several times in order to get a straight answer. He initially said he phoned Mugford before the police & could not remember what they spoke about at 3am. He eventually said Mugford was phoned after the police phone call.
Then there are his three laughable reasons for Sheila's second shot.
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Yeah - well practice what you PREACH!!
ME practice what I preach ? I can't even get a word in on this pro-guilty forum because of all the " know-alls ".
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I am curious, does anyone know if after Sheila was shot the first time and the killer had chosen to suffocate her with a pillow to finish her off, would the pathologist have been able to tell she had been suffocated and not just died of her wound? :-\
usually asphyxiation leaves the eyes blood shot and traces of carbon dioxide in the body tissue.
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I am curious, does anyone know if after Sheila was shot the first time and the killer had chosen to suffocate her with a pillow to finish her off rather than taking the risk of a second shot, would the pathologist have been able to tell she had been suffocated and not just died of her wound? :-\
Possibly :-\ Probably? Yes :)
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usually asphyxiation leaves the eyes blood shot and traces of carbon dioxide in the body tissue.
Of course it does, thanks Caroline was just being lazy and using someone else's brain instead of looking it up..... who needs Google ;)
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Over 30 'No comments' & 'can't remembers'. Over 10 -don't knows' & 'can't say'.
Several one word answers as well as vague answers such as 'not really', 'I think so' & 'less than 40 but more than 10 !'
The police had to often ask the same simple questions several times in order to get a straight answer. He initially said he phoned Mugford before the police & could not remember what they spoke about at 3am. He eventually said Mugford was phoned after the police phone call.
Then there are his three laughable reasons for Sheila's second shot.
Adam, can you temper your language... there's nothing remotely laughable about Sheila's second and fatal wound.
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Hi Adam, If Jeremy Bamber had expected to kill Sheila with the first shot to the neck, do you think (know) he panicked when he found he hadn't killed her and without any thought shot her again? have you considered (know) why didn't he suffocate her instead? Sheila would have been unconscious or at least seriously incapacitated he could easily have put a pillow over her head or shot her in the head, mouth? Wouldn't it have made far more sense if he had staged the second shot through the roof of her mouth as that would have seemed easier for Sheila to do?
Well one of my options was suffocation. I would have to find out more about that. See how easy it is and how long it takes. Together with what sort of evidence is left.
He may well have panicked and fired a second shot. After so many shots were fired into each individual, he may have thought no one would notice just two shots in Sheila. It was a weak rifle.
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Adam, can you temper your language... there's nothing remotely laughable about Sheila's second and fatal wound.
I'm afraid Bamber's three reason's for Sheila's second shot are 'laughable'. ;D
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You're completely without emotion.What a horrible thing to say !
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Well one of my options was suffocation. I would have to find out more about that. See how easy it is and how long it takes. Together with what sort of evidence is left.
He may well have panicked and fired a second shot. After so many shots were fired into each individual, he may have thought no one would notice just two shots in Sheila. It was a weak rifle.
Awww POOR rifle. Perhaps it needed crutches........................or perhaps there is simply NO SUCH THING. Just because it may not have been the BEST weapon of it's type doesn't make it "weak" -or feeble, either.
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Adam, can you temper your language... there's nothing remotely laughable about Sheila's second and fatal wound.
As you said to me 'I will post to you however I want'.
I will post how I want. But won't call posters xxxxxp, 'xxxxxxxxx, 'xxxxxxxx etc. If I think something about the case is 'laughable' I will say so. Actually a lot of the case is laughable.
Although I did call a poster a xxxx recently after two xxxx about me. But two moderators confirmed that is acceptable after I reported xxxxxxx for calling me one.
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As you said to me 'I will post to you however I want'.
I will post how I want. But won't call posters xxxxxp, 'xxxxxxxxx, 'xxxxxxxx etc. If I think something about the case is 'laughable' I will say so. Actually a lot of the case is laughable.
Although I did call a poster a xxxx recently after two xxxx about me. But two moderators confirmed that is acceptable after I reported xxxxxxx for calling me one.
No need to be quite so rude.
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As you said to me 'I will post to you however I want'.
I will post how I want. But won't call posters 'prats', 'Arseholes', 'perverts' etc. If I think something about the case is 'laughable' I will say so. Actually a lot of the case is laughable.
Although I did call a poster a 'liar' recently after two lies about me. But two moderators confirmed that is acceptable after I reported Lookout for calling me one.
That's absolutely fine Adam. I guess you can post whatever you like as long as you realize that it will be YOU, not Maggie, who gets a ban. I'd watch it. The next on could be permanent.
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Awww POOR rifle. Perhaps it needed crutches........................or perhaps there is simply NO SUCH THING. Just because it may not have been the BEST weapon of it's type doesn't make it "weak" -or feeble, either.
I don't think it needed crutches. Perhaps a poll is needed.
It was a weak rifle. Weather it was a better option than a shot gun, there is a thread already created.
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This could be a reason why Bamber didn't try to suffocate Sheila.
'In these cases where a forensic pathologist is called upon to try and determine the cause of death one of the first things he or she will do if there are no discernable wounds or marks is to check the deceased's eyes.
If suffocation or smothering has taken place then the eyes of the deceased will be bloodshot; this is a common way of accurately determining that one of these methods has been employed'.
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Adam
I cannot understand why you are so rude to Maggie she has been very tolerant with you lately and I think you should thank her.
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This could be a reason why Bamber didn't try to suffocate Sheila.
'In these cases where a forensic pathologist is called upon to try and determine the cause of death one of the first things he or she will do if there are no discernable wounds or marks is to check the deceased's eyes.
If suffocation or smothering has taken place then the eyes of the deceased will be bloodshot; this is a common way of accurately determining that one of these methods has been employed'.
Perhaps you'd like to do a study of those cases where people have employed self suffocation as a means of committing suicide.
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'Throughout the investigation of a death by suffocation or smothering the pathologist will look for the tell tale signs: the bloodshot eyes, the high levels of carbon dioxide in the blood and will also look for bruising around the nose and mouth and may even collect trace evidence such as hairs and fibres from around the nose and mouth of the deceased'.
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Another problem with suffocating Sheila after the first shot, is the pathologist may say the one shot Sheila did receive would not have killed her.
So how did she then die ?
At the moment, Sheila is still alive after one shot. Suffocating her seems very risky. But Bamber can't afford to leave WHF with her still alive.
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Perhaps you'd like to do a study of those cases where people have employed self suffocation as a means of committing suicide.
No jokes on the forum please.
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Another problem with suffocating Sheila after the first shot, is the pathologist may say the one shot Sheila did receive would not have killed her.
So how did she then die ?
At the moment, Sheila is still alive after one shot. Suffocating her seems very risky.
What are you on? No one here has suggested that Sheila was suffocated -suffocation WOULD have suggested murder and the idea appears to have been to make it look like suicide- so it's totally unnecessary for you to go through explanations of why it wouldn't have been a good idea.
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I am curious, does anyone know if after Sheila was shot the first time and the killer had chosen to suffocate her with a pillow to finish her off rather than taking the risk of a second shot, would the pathologist have been able to tell she had been suffocated and not just died of her wound? :-\
that's an interesting question. Also it is important to remember there was not the internet/google access we have today so I don't think there is any chance that Jeremy would have known two shots suicides were a possibility . If it was him he must have been extremely stressed - but then he would have been anyway.
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Another problem with suffocating Sheila after the first shot, is the pathologist may say the one shot Sheila did receive would not have killed her.
So how did she then die ?
At the moment, Sheila is still alive after one shot. Suffocating her seems very risky. But Bamber can't afford to leave WHF with her still alive.
did he not say it would not have killed her straight away - not that it would not kill her eventually?
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Well one of my options was suffocation. I would have to find out more about that. See how easy it is and how long it takes. Together with what sort of evidence is left.
He may well have panicked and fired a second shot. After so many shots were fired into each individual, he may have thought no one would notice just two shots in Sheila. It was a weak rifle.
perhaps he should of asked Julie - she seemed to know what she was doing when she tried to suffocate Jeremy
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What are you on? No one here has suggested that Sheila was suffocated -suffocation WOULD have suggested murder and the idea appears to have been to make it look like suicide- so it's totally unnecessary for you to go through explanations of why it wouldn't have been a good idea.
Maggie suggested it. Page one.
Keep up.
Anyway, I have investigated this suggestion and closed the case. If Bamber wanted Sheila dead (which he did) and the first shot didn't kill her, he had to shoot her.
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For steve - When the police asked Jeremy how Sheila could shoot herself twice part of the conversation was that Crispy could have done the second shot - meaning obviously the dog could have jumped on her and it went off - plus I think Jeremy was admittedly trying to be a smart ass because they kept saying Sheila had not shot herself twice ( although they accepted before that she did)
The police then jumped on the fact he must have been the murderer as how did he know the dog was in the room . And Jeremy calmly told them that the police themselves had informed him . Their response is not recorded.
Adam will keep repeating this as if Crispy was accused of picking up the gun and shooting Sheila - time and time again. Read what you want into this :)
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Maggie suggested it. Page one.
Keep up.
Anyway, I have investigated this suggestion and closed the case. If Bamber wanted Sheila dead (which he did) and the first shot didn't kill her, he had to shoot her.
She did not suggested she was suffocated - she was quite rightly pointing out that this option might have occurred to Jeremy - because he was more likely to think this would not be discovered as a clue rather than two shots . I think it was a very good point.
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As you said to me 'I will post to you however I want'.
I will post how I want. But won't call posters xxxxxp, 'xxxxxxxxx, 'xxxxxxxx etc. If I think something about the case is 'laughable' I will say so. Actually a lot of the case is laughable.
Although I did call a poster a xxxx recently after two xxxx about me. But two moderators confirmed that is acceptable after I reported xxxxxxx for calling me one.
Give it rest Adam - its boring now.
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She did not suggested she was suffocated - she was quite rightly pointing out that this option might have occurred to Jeremy - because he was more likely to think this would not be discovered as a clue rather than two shots . I think it was a very good point.
If Sheila was breathing - fabric spore would have been found in her nose and airways.
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Maggie suggested it. Page one.
Keep up.
Anyway, I have investigated this suggestion and closed the case. If Bamber wanted Sheila dead (which he did) and the first shot didn't kill her, he had to shoot her.
NO SHE DIDN'T!!!!She asked if you'd considered why he didn't. You appear to be the last person to come to the conclusion that he had to shoot her AGAIN.
KEEP UP.
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For steve - When the police asked Jeremy how Sheila could shoot herself twice part of the conversation was that Crispy could have done the second shot - meaning obviously the dog could have jumped on her and it went off - plus I think Jeremy was admittedly trying to be a smart ass because they kept saying Sheila had not shot herself twice ( although they accepted before that she did)
The police then jumped on the fact he must have been the murderer as how did he know the dog was in the room . And Jeremy calmly told them that the police themselves had informed him . Their response is not recorded.
Adam will keep repeating this as if Crispy was accused of picking up the gun and shooting Sheila - time and time again. Read what you want into this :)
I've never said Crispy picked up the rifle. Crispy was found underneath the main bed. In the several hours before the raid team entered, Crispy could have gone anywhere.
Wouldn't it be impossible for Crispy to even accidentally fire the second shot ? A trigger still has to be pulled and his paws would be much too big to do that.
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If Sheila was breathing - fabric spore would have been found in her nose and airways.
But would Jeremy have known that?
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'have you considered (know) why didn't he suffocate her instead? Sheila would have been unconscious or at least seriously incapacitated he could easily have put a pillow over her head or shot her in the head, mouth? Wouldn't it have made far more sense if he had staged the second shot through the roof of her mouth as that would have seemed easier for Sheila to do?'
There is the quote.
Anyway I had considered it. It is in my poll.
I have just investigated it and it was not really a feasible option.
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But would Jeremy have known that?
She was also bleeding so what would he do with the item he used to suffocate her with if it had gotten any of her blood on it - I doubt it even crossed his mind to change his plan. What I think is he went there to make it look like a murder/suicide - with one shot obviously, but that didn't work so he shot her again hoping that his attempted alibi would be enough to get people to look beyond that. It wasn't ideal but he had no choice.
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NO SHE DIDN'T!!!!She asked if you'd considered why he didn't. You appear to be the last person to come to the conclusion that he had to shoot her AGAIN.
KEEP UP.
Ohhh. Capitals now.
Reminds me of when you used to argue like a tiger that Bamber was innocent. For six months. Then gave up after 29 years.
Alias and other supporters do not believe Bamber would shoot Sheila twice.
This poll is really showing that he really had no choice.
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She was also bleeding so what would he do with the item he used to suffocate her with if it had gotten any of her blood on it - I doubt it even crossed his mind to change his plan. What I think is he went there to make it look like a murder/suicide - with one shot obviously, but that didn't work so he shot her again hoping that his attempted alibi would be enough to get people to look beyond that. It wasn't ideal but he had no choice.
Yes I think we all agree that a guilty Jeremy had no choice I cant really see the point of the poll . But I don't think he would have known that it would not have been immediately suspicious.
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Maggie suggested it. Page one.
Keep up.
Anyway, I have investigated this suggestion and closed the case. If Bamber wanted Sheila dead (which he did) and the first shot didn't kill her, he had to shoot her.
HERE above is where you said Maggie suggested it. What she actually asked was if you'd considered why he didn't
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Ohhh. Capitals now.
Reminds me of when you used to argue like a tiger that Bamber was innocent. For six months. Then gave up after 29 years.
Alias and other supporters do not believe Bamber would shoot Sheila twice.
This poll is really showing that he really had no choice.
resorting to the same old insults - you are very predictable.
The fact is that shooting Sheila twice would have been more difficult - he had to move her and get her into position to get the angle correct when she was possibly conscious and she may have decided to put up a fight. And as we have said several times he must have been petrified the game was up because he would be found out as soon as they went in. Not cocky or relaxed, because his plan had one wrong
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Ohhh. Capitals now.
Reminds me of when you used to argue like a tiger that Bamber was innocent. For six months. Then gave up after 29 years.
Alias and other supporters do not believe Bamber would shoot Sheila twice.
This poll is really showing that he really had no choice.
Funny that. It's the reason I first gave for saying it was a useless poll. Numerous alternatives. ONE choice.
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Yes I think we all agree that a guilty Jeremy had no choice I cant really see the point of the poll . But I don't think he would have known that it would not have been immediately suspicious.
Supporters like Alias say Bamber is innocent because he wouldn't have shot Sheila a second time.
Supporters need to retract and say two bullets in Sheila do not show Bamber is innocent.
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Supporters like Alias say Bamber is innocent because he wouldn't have shot Sheila a second time.
Supporters need to retract and say two bullets in Sheila do not show Bamber is innocent.
Alias is no longer here.
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resorting to the same old insults - you are very predictable.
The fact is that shooting Sheila twice would have been more difficult - he had to move her and get her into position to get the angle correct when she was possibly conscious and she may have decided to put up a fight. And as we have said several times he must have been petrified the game was up because he would be found out as soon as they went in. Not cocky or relaxed, because his plan had one wrong
Well my first page post suggests he knew he had the option of two shots prior to entrance into WHF.
He would know the rifle was weak and that one shot may not kill Sheila. So he read up to see if two shot suicides happen. Which they do.
So I don't see why he would be petrified. The police said he was very calm.
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Bamber may have also read up on evidence about a suffocation, if one shot was unsuccessful. Then choose the two shots.option.
Which was a slightly better option as Sheila can't suffocate herself and Bamber suffocating her would leave too much evidence. And he can always argue that she could shoot herself a second time.
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Bamber may have also read up on evidence about a suffocation, if one shot was unsuccessful. Then choose the two shots.option.
Which was a slightly better option as Sheila can't suffocate herself and Bamber suffocating her would leave too much evidence. And he can always argue that she could shoot herself a second time.
You're basically saying that he thought he'd fail to do the job properly. He only needed a bit more accuracy and that theory would fall apart.
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You're basically saying that he thought he'd fail to do the job properly. He only needed a bit more accuracy and that theory would fall apart.
Well the months of planning, he needed to cover himself and be ready for different scenarios. He would have got a shock straight away when he saw Sheila lying next to June.
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Well the months of planning, he needed to cover himself and be ready for different scenarios. He would have got a shock straight away when he saw Sheila lying next to June.
It undoubtedly wouldn't have been what he expected but "the best laid plans of mice and men" eh? Not for a moment do I think he allowed for the fact he may have to shoot Sheila twice.
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Bamber may have also read up on evidence about a suffocation, if one shot was unsuccessful. Then choose the two shots.option.
Which was a slightly better option as Sheila can't suffocate herself and Bamber suffocating her would leave too much evidence. And he can always argue that she could shoot herself a second time.
He didn't CHOOSE two shots!
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He didn't CHOOSE two shots!
He did, after the first shot failed to kill her.
His first shot was not a terrible shot. It just didn't kill her.
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He did, after the first shot failed to kill her.
His first shot was not a terrible shot. It just didn't kill her.
Both shots WOULD have been fatal, the first just wasn't instant!! You have no idea how two shots were fired or why. You can ONLY speculate!!
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Both shots WOULD have been fatal, the first just wasn't instant!! You have no idea how two shots were fired or why. You can ONLY speculate!!
They were fired with a gun. In and the around the head area. There is a picture of a shot Sheila. Have you not seen it.
Where does it say the first shot would have been fatal ? If she was able to go on walkabouts as people claim, why couldn't she have survived.
Are you xxxxx again, like you did last Saturday ?
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They were fired with a gun. In and the around the head area. There is a picture of a shot Sheila. Have you not seen it.
Where does it say the first shot would have been fatal ? If she was able to go on walkabouts as people claim, why couldn't she have survived.
Are you xxxxx again, like you did last Saturday ?
Read the autopsy you xxxxx! When did I lie?
You must really like being banned, I'd say you were on the edge again! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Two moderators confirmed it is acceptable to say this. After I reported xxxxxxx. So if someone says something incorrect about me.... Although I got called a xxxx when saying something about Bamber, rather than another poster.
Anyway Bamber wouldn't know whether Sheila was going to survive or not.
I couldn't give a flying crap what you were told - when did I lie? It's a simple enough question even for you!
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Well my first page post suggests he knew he had the option of two shots prior to entrance into WHF.
He would know the rifle was weak and that one shot may not kill Sheila. So he read up to see if two shot suicides happen. Which they do.
So I don't see why he would be petrified. The police said he was very calm.
So weak that Sheila could use it then?
You do try and get the scene to fit your scenario. :) Do you think Jeremy borrowed a book from the library then on faking a suicide and knew he would have to do two shots ? How meticulous . And then he went and ruined it all by telling his girlfriend ? Oh sorry soon to be ex girlfriend.
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So weak that Sheila could use it then?
You do try and get the scene to fit your scenario. :) Do you think Jeremy borrowed a book from the library then on faking a suicide and knew he would have to do two shots ? How meticulous . And then he went and ruined it all by telling his girlfriend ? Oh sorry soon to be ex girlfriend.
I can't change the crime scene.
Bamber simply may have investigated if two shot suicides happen, in case the first shot of a weak rifle did not kill her. Criminals do plan things.
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I can't change the crime scene.
Bamber simply may have investigated if two shot suicides happen, in case the first shot of a weak rifle did not kill her. Criminals do plan things.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Well he had been telling his girlfriend for months beforehand. There was no point in trying to keep it secret afterwards.
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I can't change the crime scene.
Bamber simply may have investigated if two shot suicides happen, in case the first shot of a weak rifle did not kill her. Criminals do plan things.
Unless you have some sort of proof that she didn't knock the rifle sideways as he took the first shot you're talking out of your rear end...................which for you, isn't unusual.
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I can't change the crime scene.
Bamber simply may have investigated if two shot suicides happen, in case the first shot of a weak rifle did not kill her. Criminals do plan things.
The likelihood of that happening is about the same as you being right about anything!! In case you can't work out the odds - that's a big fat zero!
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Unless you have some sort of proof that she didn't knock the rifle sideways as he took the first shot you're talking out of your rear end...................which for you, isn't unusual.
I have no proof. I was not there. Or even born.
Unlike you who didn't like Julie's court dress and then decided Bamber was innocent.
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The likelihood of that happening is about the same as you being right about anything!! In case you can't work out the odds - that's a big fat zero!
It wouldn't be hard to do.
I understand they had books in 1985.
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It wouldn't be hard to do.
I understand they had books in 1985.
The gun might be weak but not as weak as your argument.
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Adam your version of Jeremy is quite an enigma
Clever enough to plan two shots
But stupid enough to tell his girlfriend
Clever enough to plan a call from his father
but stupid enough not to wait a while and make it a proper emergency call rather than dilly dally
Clever enough to LOCK a window behind him
but stupid enough to tell the police he could get in and out of the house
He was such a namby pamby he could not shoot rabbits
but could shoot his whole family and stand calmly next to police
He was not speaking to his mother ( according to you )
But he was happy to go round for supper.
Clever enough to totally dispose of any forensic evidence
But dumb enough to leave the silencer with a Blob of blood .
You are weaving an intricate personality .
And before you say anything there is a source that he was thoroughly tested face to face ( not by someone who had never met him , and he was not a psychopath.
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I have no proof. I was not there. Or even born.
Unlike you who didn't like Julie's court dress and then decided Bamber was innocent.
Wasn't born? My guess is you're a lot closer to 70 than 17. Are your fingers so weak and feeble -bit like you say about rifle- that you get the keys mixed up when it comes to your age. OR are you just a LIAR?
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Wasn't born? My guess is you're a lot closer to 70 than 17. Are your fingers so weak and feeble -bit like you say about rifle- that you get the keys mixed up when it comes to your age. OR are you just a LIAR?
If you must know, my birthday is 17/6/97.
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If you must know, my birthday is 17/6/97.
Why would we know that?
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If you must know, my birthday is 17/6/97.
so why are you so determined to convert doubters - do you have a personal interest in the case?
Are you second generation of the "family" ?
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Why would we know that?
1897?
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Adam your version of Jeremy is quite an enigma
Clever enough to plan two shots
But stupid enough to tell his girlfriend
Clever enough to plan a call from his father
but stupid enough not to wait a while and make it a proper emergency call rather than dilly dally
Clever enough to LOCK a window behind him
but stupid enough to tell the police he could get in and out of the house
He was such a namby pamby he could not shoot rabbits
but could shoot his whole family and stand calmly next to police
He was not speaking to his mother ( according to you )
But he was happy to go round for supper.
Clever enough to totally dispose of any forensic evidence
But dumb enough to leave the silencer with a Blob of blood .
You are weaving an intricate personality .
And before you say anything there is a source that he was thoroughly tested face to face ( not by someone who had never met him , and he was not a psychopath.
All that is correct. And plausible.
He may have spent a couple of hours reading up on whether two shot suicides happen. To cover himself. He spent months beforehand telling Julie of his raw deal. So no point in not admitting his involvement afterwards.
Calling Neville as part of the murder suicide frame was his best option. The execution was not great.
The police asked him about the windows. He would know that Julie and the relatives had told the police. And that the police would check themselves. So he told the police, but not that he could lock them from outside
He went to shoot rabbits. But didn't. And left a loaded gun for Sheila.
He testified himself that he had a poor relationship with June. But still went round for supper. On the massacre night anyway.
There is a lot of forensic evidence. Including the silencer.
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If you must know, my birthday is 17/6/97.
Guess that makes you a xxxx then.
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If you must know, my birthday is 17/6/97.
So why were you suggesting a date with Trudie? Freudian slip? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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So why were you suggesting a date with Trudie? Freudian slip? ;D ;D ;D ;D
I like older women.
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I like older women.
is there an emoji for vomit?
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All that is correct. And plausible.
He may have spent a couple of hours reading up on whether two shot suicides happen. To cover himself. He spent months beforehand telling Julie of his raw deal. So no point in not admitting his involvement afterwards.
Calling Neville as part of the murder suicide frame was his best option. The execution was not great.
The police asked him about the windows. He would know that Julie and the relatives had told the police. And that the police would check themselves. So he told the police, but not that he could lock them from outside
He went to shoot rabbits. But didn't. And left a loaded gun for Sheila.
He testified himself that he had a poor relationship with June. But still went round for supper. On the massacre night anyway.
There is a lot of forensic evidence. Including the silencer.
No - the fact is you are changing his personality as it suits you .
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I like older women.
Well, at least 80 year olds can't get away from you, I suppose.
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I like older women.
Well she looks old enough to be your gran. Seems like you slipped up! ;)
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No - the fact is you are changing his personality as it suits you .
Everything Jan said is correct. I don't see how any of it seriously cancels anything out.
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Just read this.
Trudi Benjamin–
@tru68
Works full-time for The Jeremy Bamber Campaign. DM or email me on [email protected] for interviews. First Yr LLB Law Student Staffordshire University.
Works full time !
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Just read this.
Trudi Benjamin–
@tru68
Works full-time for The Jeremy Bamber Campaign. DM or email me on [email protected] for interviews. First Yr LLB Law Student Staffordshire University.
Works full time.
Never heard of mature students, Adam? Last year a 95 year old gained a degree. Working full time doesn't necessarily mean paid work.
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Just read this.
Trudi Benjamin–
@tru68
Works full-time for The Jeremy Bamber Campaign. DM or email me on [email protected] for interviews. First Yr LLB Law Student Staffordshire University.
Works full time !
And? (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/650954609444433920/wZ54Xn-C.jpg)
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And? (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/650954609444433920/wZ54Xn-C.jpg)
O - M -G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said he was a xxxx. He's worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's a cradle snatcher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Me, Trudie, Scipio and Lookout should double date.
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Me, Trudie, Scipio and Lookout should double date.
Adam Scipio aint your type hahaha
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Knowing your age now Adam answers a lot of questions about you.
i thought it was sarcasm now i know its immaturity
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Knowing your age now Adam answers a lot of questions about you.
i thought it was sarcasm now i know its immaturity
Hi Notsure as you have just stated always two answers to the points raised it could be Senile
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And? (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/650954609444433920/wZ54Xn-C.jpg)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Me, Trudie, Scipio and Lookout should double date.
Not if they see you first.
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Maggie suggested it. Page one.
Keep up.
Anyway, I have investigated this suggestion and closed the case. If Bamber wanted Sheila dead (which he did) and the first shot didn't kill her, he had to shoot her.
I wondered about it Adam but I was wrong, it was a silly idea.
See, it doesn't hurt to admit you made a silly mistake. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I wondered about it Adam but I was wrong, it was a silly idea.
See, it doesn't hurt to admit you made a silly mistake. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Maggie it shows a strong character when you hold your hands up and say I was wrong hahaha Well done
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I wondered about it Adam but I was wrong, it was a silly idea.
See, it doesn't hurt to admit you made a silly mistake. ;D ;D ;D ;D
I have often wondered about it. And was surprised supporters had never brought it up. It was included in my poll.
After investigating yesterday, it became clear that suffocating Sheila would have incriminated Bamber more than a second rifle shot.
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'As I always say, it is impossible that Jeremy Bamber shot his sister in the head TWICE and thougt it was a grand idea to stage it as a suicide. NO WAY! Nonononono and more NO!'.
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This is a recent post from a supporter. However this thread shows everyone agreeing that a guilty Bamber would have fired a second shot into Sheila, after the first shot did not kill her. And that suffocation was not an option.
A very productive thread.
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'As I always say, it is impossible that Jeremy Bamber shot his sister in the head TWICE and thougt it was a grand idea to stage it as a suicide. NO WAY! Nonononono and more NO!'.
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This is a recent post from a supporter. However this thread shows everyone agreeing that a guilty Bamber would have fired a second shot into Sheila, after the first shot did not kill her. And that suffocation was not an option.
A very productive thread.
I've always wondered how Alias could claim herself as on the fence, middle of the road, open minded - when she is so hardline that Jeremy WOULD NOT, EVER, EVER, EVER have fired a second shot.
Never made much sense to me.
The second shot did worry me once upon a time - but that was a long while ago and given all the other evidence the second shot is something Jeremy HAD to do.
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If he had left Sheila alive, she survived, accused Bamber and Bamber was found guilty, Sheila would have inherited everything.
Jeremy would have loved that.
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'As I always say, it is impossible that Jeremy Bamber shot his sister in the head TWICE and thougt it was a grand idea to stage it as a suicide. NO WAY! Nonononono and more NO!'.
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This is a recent post from a supporter. However this thread shows everyone agreeing that a guilty Bamber would have fired a second shot into Sheila, after the first shot did not kill her. And that suffocation was not an option.
A very productive thread.
Actually, as I originally said, a xxxxxx USELESS thread. You seem to have been the only one -why doesn't that surprise me?- to factor in that he'd planned for having to shoot her twice. An innocent Jeremy wouldn't have been in the house to fire the FIRST shot, let alone the second.
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My my,it is getting to you isn't it ? A vested interest in his guilt or what ?
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Dragged up? :-\
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Dragged up what ? What are you on about ?
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Anyway,I object to this flippant and insensitive heading !!
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Dragged up what ? What are you on about ?
A post by Jan that has been deleted.
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Anyway,I object to this flippant and insensitive heading !!
In that you're not alone, Lookout. By the way he talks about it as being "laughable" Adam appears to think it's a joke.