Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on November 10, 2015, 08:31:PM
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Sheila killed the family. And herself.
Even Jeremy's supporters cannot explain how Sheila could have done it. Although the crime scene is well known. Enough chances have been given. But point blank refusals are made. Most supporters refusing to even say what Sheila was doing when Neville made his phone call/s.
Myself, CAL and the police are quite happy to give point by point explanations on how Bamber could do it. Supporters try to pick fault with how Bamber could have done it, while still refusing to say how Sheila did it. Guilters being quite happy to assist and explain away the attempted minor obstacles created for Bamber by supporters.
There are also a lot of reasons why Sheila would not shoot her mother, father, two sons. And herself.
Verdict: Laughable.
Neville called Bamber:
The last thing Neville would do is call Bamber. Even if they were 'mates' as Bamber is now claiming. Anyone who knows about the case, knows they had a poor relationship. And that Bamber also had a poor relationship with Sheila. So a double reason not to call from the start.
There are several reasons why Neville would not call him, 40 in fact.
Verdict: Laughable.
Neville called the police:
Even a lot of supporters do not believe this happened. It is a wild accusation.
Verdict: Laughable.
There are withheld documents which show Bamber is innocent:
Bamber has often boasted about how he has millions of documents in his cell. The long build up to the trial, the two appeals, the CCRC appplication and 30 years of lawyers, has failed to get a release. So it is now not surprising the focus has moved to documents being withheld.
However even supporters can't agree on whether he has everything or not.
Documents being withheld that 'would show Bamber is innocent'. The police force's reputation would surely never recover if this was true.
Verdict: Laughable.
Bamber has been framed by the police, relatives and Julie:
If innocent, he would have to be framed X 3.
This wild accusation has Julie framing him because she was jilted and the relatives framing him because they wanted the money. Very serious offences.
While the police were framing him because they shot Sheila but were too ashamed to admit it. So changed stance a month later. Although under no pressure to do so. Or is it because the relatives pressurised them ?
Verdict: Laughable.
Other reasons:
Things such as the two bodies in the kitchen, movement inside WHF and conversations about fostering all have perfectly valid explanations.
In conclusion there are not really any plausible grounds showing potential innocence. It's all laughable :).
Do other people agree that the main planks of an innocent claim are laughable ?
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Who's laughing ?? Not me that's for sure !! How disrespectful and tactless !
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Adam you are sinking to a new low ( if that is possible)
nothing about the case is laughable .
Posters are entitled to discuss as much as they like without you taking the mick.
Explain to me again if you are 100% sure - why do you start so many threads?
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Don't think laughable is the right word to describe it, Adam. I'd call SOME of the supporters theories lacking basis, evidence and dis-honest.
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Don't think laughable is the right word to describe it, Adam. I'd call SOME of the supporters theories lacking basis, evidence and dis-honest.
that is less offensive - but I dont think MOST posters are dishonest.
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Adam, what exactly is your point and why do you post with such arrogance. You seem to want to antagonise and start a row.
whats wrong with you .
Debate ...?. Look the word up
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Adam, what exactly is your point and why do you post with such arrogance. You seem to want to antagonise and start a row.
whats wrong with you .
Debate ...?. Look the word up
Feel free to debate each point.
Explaining how Sheila successfully committed to massacre will make it plausible that the only remaining suspect could have committed the massacre. Sheila cannot speak for herself.
Explaining why Neville would call Bamber at 3am is the next thing. You did not respond when I posted my 40 reasons why he wouldn't.
You haven't said whether you believe Neville called the police. A lot of supporters don't believe it. However Jeremy, the OS and public supporters like Trudie Benjamin believe it happened. If you believe Neville called the police, why did the police arrest and charge a man they knew was innocent a month after the massacre ? And why wasn't this in the 2012 CCRC application ?
Some supporters believe there are withheld documents, some say he now has everything. What do you believe ? And again, if you believe there are withheld documents which show his innocence, as claimed, why did the police decide to charge him a month after the massacre ?
Do you believe in the un precedented triple frame theory ? Hundreds of people working together to frame someone they know is innocent. The police also persuading a lot of experts to fabricate evidence.
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Feel free to debate each point.
There's a strong possibility that all the points you raise have been previously debated ad nauseum.
Explaining how Sheila successfully committed to massacre will make it plausible that the only remaining suspect could have committed the massacre. Sheila cannot speak for herself.
This is an example of such. Posters have already explained this to the best of their ability given that none of them was there at the time.
Explaining why Neville would call Bamber at 3am is the next thing. You did not respond when I posted my 40 reasons why he wouldn't.
There have been enough explanations of this to fill a book. It isn't necessary to goad one person in particular if they choose not to add to it.
You haven't said whether you believe Neville called the police. A lot of supporters don't believe it. However Jeremy, the OS and public supporters like Trudie Benjamin believe it happened. If you believe Neville called the police, why did the police arrest and charge a man they knew was innocent a month after the massacre ? And why wasn't this in the 2012 CCRC application ?
Some supporters believe there are withheld documents, some say he now has everything. What do you believe ? And again, if you believe there are withheld documents which show his innocence, as claimed, why did the police decide to charge him a month after the massacre ?
There is no book of rules. If a poster chooses not to answer questions they may feel to have become boring by their repetition, it is their prerogative.
Do you believe in the un precedented triple frame theory ? Hundreds of people working together to frame someone they know is innocent. The police also persuading a lot of experts to fabricate evidence.
Why are you goading Jan for a response? You'll find the answers to/opinions on ALL the above questions on other threads.
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Feel free to debate each point.
Explaining how Sheila successfully committed to massacre will make it plausible that the only remaining suspect could have committed the massacre. Sheila cannot speak for herself.
Explaining why Neville would call Bamber at 3am is the next thing. You did not respond when I posted my 40 reasons why he wouldn't.
You haven't said whether you believe Neville called the police. A lot of supporters don't believe it. However Jeremy, the OS and public supporters like Trudie Benjamin believe it happened. If you believe Neville called the police, why did the police arrest and charge a man they knew was innocent a month after the massacre ? And why wasn't this in the 2012 CCRC application ?
Some supporters believe there are withheld documents, some say he now has everything. What do you believe ? And again, if you believe there are withheld documents which show his innocence, as claimed, why did the police decide to charge him a month after the massacre ?
Do you believe in the un precedented triple frame theory ? Hundreds of people working together to frame someone they know is innocent. The police also persuading a lot of experts to fabricate evidence.
Its about time that you understood that everyone has different opinions. We are not all at the same stage of understanding the case . Some of us are still asking questions which is what debate is about. Whatever you believe you have no right whatsoever to lecture us about your assumptions which is what 99% of them are.
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Why have you posted in Red ?
No supporters have given a point by point account of how Sheila committed the massacre. It's impossible to do. That includes ex supporters like you. It is creepy that people support Bamber for 29 years, but can't say how Sheila did it. But I forget, you're support was because you didn't like Julie's court outfit.
There has not really been any justification on why Neville would call Bamber. It was a naff idea by Neville, he had lots of better options and reasons not to. Forty in fact. This is justified by Bamber's time wasting and reluctance to do anything constructive after waking from 'sleeping like a log'.
My post was a reply to 'Notsure', but Jan can reply.
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Why have you posted in Red ?
No supporters have given a point by point account of how Sheila committed the massacre. It's impossible to do. That includes ex supporters like you. It is creepy that people support Bamber for 29 years, but can't say how Sheila did it. But I forget, you're support was because you didn't like Julie's court outfit.
There has not really been any justification on why Neville would call Bamber. It was a naff idea by Neville, he had lots of better options and reasons not to. Forty in fact. This is justified by Bamber's time wasting and reluctance to do anything constructive after waking from 'sleeping like a log'.
My post was a reply to 'Notsure', but Jan can reply.
Remind me, Adam. How many times is it now that you've been banned? Wasn't one of the -several- reasons for it, that you made inappropriately personal comments about the poster?
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Jan would be the first to admit she lied about me. Saying I don't like other posters creating threads. I can only think it was to goad me.
I did make two requests for the post to be removed but got no response.
I wasn't banned for suggesting Jan lied. Two moderators confirmed to me it is acceptable to say this, after I had previously reported Lookout for calling me a liar.
You will have to ask the moderator, as my post on the 'we talk and talk' thread says I am not aware why I got banned.
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Shut your mouth.
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Anyway, I look forward to Notsure discussing the case. And after two years finally informing me and everyone how Sheila committed the massacre.
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Anyway, I look forward to Notsure discussing the case. And after two years finally informing me and everyone how Sheila committed the massacre.
I'd say ANOTHER ban is more likely.
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Jan would be the first to admit she lied about me. Saying I don't like other posters creating threads. I can only think it was to goad me.
I did make two requests for the post to be removed but got no response.
I wasn't banned for suggesting Jan lied. Two moderators confirmed to me it is acceptable to say this, after I had previously reported Lookout for calling me a liar.
You will have to ask the moderator, as my post on the 'we talk and talk' thread says I am not aware why I got banned.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
you are funny Adam .
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Adam
Im not really sure why you ask anyone to explain how shiela did it. It would all be assumption wouldnt it as shes not here to tell us.
i will say this though and that is that she could have very well shot the whole of her family during one of her episodes. She was a seriously ill person and during one of these episodes could have overpowered neville with ease.
this poor girl had spent months in hospital, i believe she could be violent too, as ermani (sorry if i have his name wrong) said.
she just lost it, went and shot her children then went and shot her mum and dad. Her dad was shot but he was able to call jeremy, she came into the kitchen and she killed him.
She could have re loaded after she had shot her children.
Oh i know you would like me to into arguing all the points raised against this theory but why can it not be as simple as this.
julie lied, the blood evidence is rubbish. The family wanted the money and land and businesses
there you go! Got to go now cos im off out .
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Adam
Im not really sure why you ask anyone to explain how shiela did it. It would all be assumption wouldnt it as shes not here to tell us.
i will say this though and that is that she could have very well shot the whole of her family during one of her episodes. She was a seriously ill person and during one of these episodes could have overpowered neville with ease.
this poor girl had spent months in hospital, i believe she could be violent too, as ermani (sorry if i have his name wrong) said.
she just lost it, went and shot her children then went and shot her mum and dad. Her dad was shot but he was able to call jeremy, she came into the kitchen and she killed him.
She could have re loaded after she had shot her children.
Oh i know you would like me to into arguing all the points raised against this theory but why can it not be as simple as this.
julie lied, the blood evidence is rubbish. The family wanted the money and land and businesses
there you go! Got to go now cos im off out .
Where did you read that Sheila had spent "months" in hospital. I understand that apart from being hospitalized during her pregnancy, she spent two periods of six(?) and four(?) weeks in the psych clinic.
No one has every said Sheila was violent. Freddie said he was afraid for his safety but Sheila didn't actually do anything to him or any other person and someone would certainly have come forward had she.
Like you require proof of Julie telling the truth, I require proof of Nevill's call to Jeremy.
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Adam
Im not really sure why you ask anyone to explain how shiela did it. It would all be assumption wouldnt it as shes not here to tell us.
i will say this though and that is that she could have very well shot the whole of her family during one of her episodes. She was a seriously ill person and during one of these episodes could have overpowered neville with ease.
this poor girl had spent months in hospital, i believe she could be violent too, as ermani (sorry if i have his name wrong) said.
she just lost it, went and shot her children then went and shot her mum and dad. Her dad was shot but he was able to call jeremy, she came into the kitchen and she killed him.
She could have re loaded after she had shot her children.
Oh i know you would like me to into arguing all the points raised against this theory but why can it not be as simple as this.
julie lied, the blood evidence is rubbish. The family wanted the money and land and businesses
there you go! Got to go now cos im off out .
The sights and silencer were removed from the gun shortly before the murders. Was it established that they were attached to the gun on the Tuesday night whilst Jeremy was attempting to shoot rabbits? If not who removed them? It's beyond the realms of possibility that Sheila in a psychotic episode took a screwdriver and attempted this herself.
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Neither were attached when Jeremy left.
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Where did you read that Sheila had spent "months" in hospital. I understand that apart from being hospitalized during her pregnancy, she spent two periods of six(?) and four(?) weeks in the psych clinic.
No one has every said Sheila was violent. Freddie said he was afraid for his safety but Sheila didn't actually do anything to him or any other person and someone would certainly have come forward had she.
Like you require proof of Julie telling the truth, I require proof of Nevill's call to Jeremy.
to be fair colin did say there was violence under the surface and if you are going to accept Jeremy was going to commit murder with no previous violence the same must apply to Sheila.And she herself said she felt she was a danger to her children - and we have no idea whether Jeremy knew that or not.
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Sheila did her best to explain that she could do damage------------but nobody listened. It's what's happening to this day. These are the kind of threats that should never be taken lightly or ignored. It's a patient's cry for help.
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to be fair colin did say there was violence under the surface and if you are going to accept Jeremy was going to commit murder with no previous violence the same must apply to Sheila.And she herself said she felt she was a danger to her children - and we have no idea whether Jeremy knew that or not.
Presumably Colin never saw "violence UNDER the surface" rise to the surface. Certainly, prior to being placed on medication -during her FIRST admission- Sheila did voice her concerns about being a danger to her children. Was this ever defined as physical or emotional danger? She said nothing about fearing this "danger" during her second admission. Sheila seemed quite capable of giving expression to her anger. There are no stories of Jeremy venting his, even when it may have been justified.
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The sights and silencer were removed from the gun shortly before the murders. Was it established that they were attached to the gun on the Tuesday night whilst Jeremy was attempting to shoot rabbits? If not who removed them? It's beyond the realms of possibility that Sheila in a psychotic episode took a screwdriver and attempted this herself.
As far as I know Jeremy said neither the sights or moderator were on when he went out to shoot the rabbits.
If he was intending to use the moderator as part of his plan you would have thought he would have said it was on - then take it off to shoot Sheila and leave it by the side of her body as if she had taken it off.
I can not see why the sight being on or off would have made any difference to shooting people at close range .
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to be fair colin did say there was violence under the surface and if you are going to accept Jeremy was going to commit murder with no previous violence the same must apply to Sheila.And she herself said she felt she was a danger to her children - and we have no idea whether Jeremy knew that or not.
I have never said it wasn't physically possible for Sheila to have committed the murders. However, a person in the throws of psychosis doesn't use a weapon that is unfamiliar to them, they pick up with whatever is closest - they don't spend 5-10 minutes making sure they know what to push, pull or turn in order to get the weapon to operate.
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I have never said it wasn't physically possible for Sheila to have committed the murders. However, a person in the throws of psychosis doesn't use a weapon that is unfamiliar to them, they pick up with whatever is closest - they don't spend 5-10 minutes making sure they know what to push, pull or turn in order to get the weapon to operate.
I appreciate your comments - but I have seen others who have said it was an easy weapon to use - and how do we now that if Neville was beaten with the gun that it might not have been damaged and that explained why in test it becameharder to load.
The CAL book explained about the missing ammunition much better than Skippys long winded explanation - and as far as I know that question has never been answered?
remember the alleged comment by one of the family that Jeremy was showing Sheila how to fire the gun? If that was true how do we know that she did not ask how to use the gun?
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I appreciate your comments - but I have seen others who have said it was an easy weapon to use - and how do we now that if Neville was beaten with the gun that it might not have been damaged and that explained why in test it becameharder to load.
The CAL book explained about the missing ammunition much better than Skippys long winded explanation - and as far as I know that question has never been answered?
remember the alleged comment by one of the family that Jeremy was showing Sheila how to fire the gun? If that was true how do we know that she did not ask how to use the gun?
Lots of 'if's' Jan. However, I believe that the comment only indicated that Jeremy 'wanted' to show her how to fire the gun - not that he actually did. I think before making comment either way, we need to clarify what the claim was - think it came from RB?
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Lots of 'if's' Jan. However, I believe that the comment only indicated that Jeremy 'wanted' to show her how to fire the gun - not that he actually did. I think before making comment either way, we need to clarify what the claim was - think it came from RB?
I think RB / Anne / ? said that june had told him she saw Jeremy showing Sheila how to use the gun - but it was pretty flaky and I think it was said that Sheila declined?
TBH I dont think it was very clear . Perhaps JB was encouraging Sheila to shoot the family for his gain?
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Adam
Im not really sure why you ask anyone to explain how shiela did it. It would all be assumption wouldnt it as shes not here to tell us.
i will say this though and that is that she could have very well shot the whole of her family during one of her episodes. She was a seriously ill person and during one of these episodes could have overpowered neville with ease.
this poor girl had spent months in hospital, i believe she could be violent too, as ermani (sorry if i have his name wrong) said.
she just lost it, went and shot her children then went and shot her mum and dad. Her dad was shot but he was able to call jeremy, she came into the kitchen and she killed him.
She could have re loaded after she had shot her children.
Oh i know you would like me to into arguing all the points raised against this theory but why can it not be as simple as this.
julie lied, the blood evidence is rubbish. The family wanted the money and land and businesses
there you go! Got to go now cos im off out .
At what point do you think Neville phoned Jeremy and the police ? He couldn't speak after his bedroom shots. What is the point of spending up to ten minutes phoning Bamber after Sheila has started shooting ?
Sheila was a recovering anorexic, Neville 6.4 and about 15 stone. At what point did Sheila 'overpower Neville with ease' and not get a mark on her ?
Julie lied ? I've heard of little white lies, but that was a big one. Even Bamber's lawyers said her WS had a 'ring of truth' to it.
The blood evidence is rubbish. Evidence please.
But thank you for an attempt. Although it was very vague. My explanation of how Bamber did it was point by point and fits the crime scene.
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The main thing supporters dispute about my point by point explanation is how he managed to successfully get Sheila to allow to be shot.
My recent posts have shown it is almost certain she did not wake up prior to it being her turn. A silencer makes the rifle almost silent, while the kitchen fight was downstairs in a big house.
So while half asleep Bamber got her to get out of bed and move her about 20 feet. She was either persuaded, lead at gunpoint, carried or a combination of all three.
There is no proof Sheila didn't resist a little bit. Bamber did need two shots.
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The main thing supporters dispute about my point by point explanation is how he managed to successfully get Sheila to allow to be shot.
My recent posts have shown it is almost certain she did not wake up prior to it being her turn. A silencer makes the rifle almost silent, while the kitchen fight was downstairs in a big house.
So while half asleep Bamber got her to get out of bed and move her about 20 feet. She was either persuaded, lead at gunpoint, carried or a combination of all three.
There is no proof Sheila didn't resist a little bit. Bamber did need two shots.
Adam your recent posts have NOT shown it is almost certain she did not wake up. A silencer is actually a moderator to DELAY the sound for rabbits there would still be a noise.
there is no evidence to show at any point that she was carried - why would she be?
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Adam your recent posts have NOT shown it is almost certain she did not wake up. A silencer is actually a moderator to DELAY the sound for rabbits there would still be a noise.
there is no evidence to show at any point that she was carried - why would she be?
Did you see my Youtube video on a silencer. Even Scipio has not disputed it.
As a man, once someone as light as Sheila was standing up, it would be quite easy to then carry her 15 feet. Poor Sheila would only be half asleep and not know what was happening until it was too late.
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Did you see my Youtube video on a silencer. Even Scipio has not disputed it.
As a man, once someone as light as Sheila was standing up, it would be quite easy to then carry her 15 feet. Poor Sheila would only be half asleep and not know what was happening until it was too late.
Where was the rifle when he was carrying her?
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Where was the rifle when he was carrying her?
He put it down. Everyone else was dead.
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He put it down. Everyone else was dead.
So you think Neville and June were totally silent when they were being shot/beaten up /wandering up and down stairs and Sheila slept through it all .
then he put the rifle down went and lifted her from her bed - laid her down and she did not even wake up when he then had to pick up the rifle?
Even if Jeremy is guilty I think you are the only one who believes this scenario.
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Adam if he was wandering round from room to room walking over the blood of June and Neville why did he not leave any marks when he left the house - or did he float out?
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So you think Neville and June were totally silent when they were being shot/beaten up /wandering up and down stairs and Sheila slept through it all .
then he put the rifle down went and lifted her from her bed - laid her down and she did not even wake up when he then had to pick up the rifle?
Even if Jeremy is guilty I think you are the only one who believes this scenario.
June silent - Yes. She was shot while asleep. Several times. Once in the throat.
Neville silent - Yes. He was shot four times upstairs and could not speak.
The twins silent - Yes. They were sleeping.
The silencer impossible for Sheila to hear - Yes. Video posted.
The kitchen fight silent - No, but brief and downstairs in a big house.
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Once everyone was dead Bamber just had to get Sheila out of bed and to where most of the shooting took place. Which was only a few feet from where she was sleeping.
He could put the rifle down, in the main bedroom. Then open Sheila's bedroom door.
He could attempt to persuade her to come with him to the main bedroom. Being Sheila's brother there is no reason why Sheila would resist. If she did see June lying down in the main bedroom and started to resist, Bamber could use his superior power to restrain her and shoot her.
Or Bamber could just wait until a half asleep Sheila was standing up, then carry her a few feet. Which would take less than ten seconds.
Or as Scipio suggested , Sheila was woken and lead at gunpoint.
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But the blood on the floor where Sheila was found was junes so she must have been wandering around and you have no idea of the sequence of shots at all.
You are making things fit your required scenario.
At the dead of night with shots /fights /dogs barking I would suggest the house was NOT silent.
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But the blood on the floor where Sheila was found was junes so she must have been wandering around and you have no idea of the sequence of shots at all.
You are making things fit your required scenario.
At the dead of night with shots /fights /dogs barking I would suggest the house was NOT silent.
I'm not making anything up.
Unlike supporters I've given a point by point account of how Bamber committed the crime. Based on the crime scene evidence.
The only thing supporters go on about is how Sheila ended up in the main bedroom.
The possibility she woke and moved there is almost zero. As my Youtube video highlights. Similar to the twins, Sheila almost certainly slept until it was her turn.
There are lots of ways Bamber could have got Sheila out of bed and a few feet into another bedroom. Which I have mentioned.
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Oh alright then, Sheila may have woken and gone into the main bedroom.
Saw that June was dead and froze with fear when seeing a gunman approach her.
Either way, she was shot by someone else.
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Did you see my Youtube video on a silencer. Even Scipio has not disputed it.
As a man, once someone as light as Sheila was standing up, it would be quite easy to then carry her 15 feet. Poor Sheila would only be half asleep and not know what was happening until it was too late.
She was carried - it's a ridiculous suggestion.
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If Sheila walked to the main bedroom, either by herself, or with Bamber's assistance, would she not have June's blood on her feet ?
Or did she jump over June's blood ?
If she woke herself and went into the main bedroom, she would surely go up to June. How could her feet be so clean ?
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She was carried - it's a ridiculous suggestion.
It's a very plausible suggestion.
As a man, I am fully aware that I could carry a light half asleep female 15 feet.
But if you think Sheila was lead at gunpoint that is up to you.
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I'm not making anything up.
Unlike supporters I've given a point by point account of how Bamber committed the crime. Based on the crime scene evidence.
The only thing supporters go on about is how Sheila ended up in the main bedroom.
The possibility she woke and moved there is almost zero. As my Youtube video highlights. Similar to the twins, Sheila almost certainly slept until it was her turn.
There are lots of ways Bamber could have got Sheila out of bed and a few feet into another bedroom. Which I have mentioned.
As far as 5 people being shot dead, you're not making anything up, for the rest, all you've done is give your own point by point opinion.
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Once everyone was dead Bamber just had to get Sheila out of bed and to where most of the shooting took place. Which was only a few feet from where she was sleeping.
He could put the rifle down, in the main bedroom. Then open Sheila's bedroom door.
He could attempt to persuade her to come with him to the main bedroom. Being Sheila's brother there is no reason why Sheila would resist. If she did see June lying down in the main bedroom and started to resist, Bamber could use his superior power to restrain her and shoot her.
Or Bamber could just wait until a half asleep Sheila was standing up, then carry her a few feet. Which would take less than ten seconds.
Or as Scipio suggested , Sheila was woken and lead at gunpoint.
hooray - you are starting to understand there are several possibilities - because there was no sequence of death or shots established . We can discuss until the cows come home about this but because items from the house were burnt we don't know exactly whose blood was where.
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I've always said there are several ways Sheila could have ended up in the main bedroom. Bamber had to get her to where the shooting took place. Or there is a very slim chance she woke and walked there.
June's blood would be all over the main bedroom floor. She was found on the bedroom floor after getting out of bed and moving across the bedroom.
Thought June's blood would be all over Sheila's feet. Maybe she flew across the bedroom.
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I've always said there are several ways Sheila could have ended up in the main bedroom. Bamber had to get her to where the shooting took place. Or there is a very slim chance she woke and walked there.
June's blood would be all over the main bedroom floor. She was found on the bedroom floor after getting out of bed and moving across the bedroom.
Thought June's blood would be all over Sheila's feet. Maybe she flew across the bedroom.
If she was already there she wouldn't have needed to.
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If she was already there she wouldn't have needed to.
When returning from the kitchen fight to kill herself, she must have flown over June's blood.
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It really has to ruled out that Sheila woke and went into the main bedroom.
If she did, her feet would be covered in June's blood. Her hands would also be covered in blood as she would have knelt down and touched June to see why June was laying in the middle of the bedroom floor.
Perhaps Bamber carried her across the bedroom floor. Not giving Sheila a chance to see June.
There is a possibility Bamber lead her to the main bedroom either though persuasion or at gunpoint. But that still does not explain why her feet were so clean.
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It really has to ruled out that Sheila woke and went into the main bedroom.
If she did, her feet would be covered in June's blood. Her hands would also be covered in blood as she would have knelt down and touched June to see why June was laying in the middle of the bedroom floor.
Perhaps Bamber carried her across the bedroom floor. Not giving Sheila a chance to see June.
If she was already there she wouldn't have had to.
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If she was already there she wouldn't have had to.
Was just going to say that. Adam's pointers add even more weight to her already being in the main bedroom. Cheers Adam! ;) ;D ;D
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If she was already there she wouldn't have had to.
You mean she slept with June and Neville and Bamber shot them all upon entrance to the main bedroom.
I bet Bamber got a shock when he realised there were three people in the bed.
He did well to shoot June and injure her enough to prevent her from exiting the main bedroom, shoot Sheila twice out of bed and kill her, and shoot Neville four times.
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You mean she slept with June and Neville and Bamber shot them all upon entrance to the main bedroom.
I bet Bamber got a shock when he realised there were three people in the bed.
He did well to shoot June and prevent June from exiting the main bedroom, shoot Sheila twice out of bed and kill her, and shoot Neville four times.
No one has EVER said she slept with June AND Nevill. The premiss is that she slept in the main bedroom with June to be next to the boys room. Nevill slept in the other room because that's were the slippers were and his blood was found outside of Sheila's room but NOT in the main bedroom. Had he been shot 4 times in the main bedroom, his blood would surely have been in there - it wasn't!
So you can stop suggesting that Sheila slept with both Nevill and June because it's now been fully explained!!
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No one has EVER said she slept with June AND Nevill. The premiss is that she slept in the main bedroom with June to be next to the boys room. Nevill slept in the other room because that's were the slippers were and his blood was found outside of Sheila's room but NOT in the main bedroom. Had he been shot 4 times in the main bedroom, his blood would surely have been in there - it wasn't!
So you can stop suggesting that Sheila slept with both Nevill and June because it's now been fully explained!!
From the amount of times this has been said, it has to be assumed that it's been dismissed, other to cause the frequent and distasteful comment about Sheila sleeping with June and Nevill.
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No one has EVER said she slept with June AND Nevill. The premiss is that she slept in the main bedroom with June to be next to the boys room. Nevill slept in the other room because that's were the slippers were and his blood was found outside of Sheila's room but NOT in the main bedroom. Had he been shot 4 times in the main bedroom, his blood would surely have been in there - it wasn't!
So you can stop suggesting that Sheila slept with both Nevill and June because it's now been fully explained!!
Neville's blood wouldn't be found in the main bedroom. He was already on the move when being shot at. So not enough time for any blood to drip down.
So Sheila slept in the main bedroom, in bed with June. So she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys.
It was inconclusive whose slippers they were. Thread already created.
As I said when Lookout said Bamber wouldn't commit the massacre in case the windows had just been painted, 'you couldn't make it up'.
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You mean she slept with June and Neville and Bamber shot them all upon entrance to the main bedroom.
I bet Bamber got a shock when he realised there were three people in the bed.
He did well to shoot June and injure her enough to prevent her from exiting the main bedroom, shoot Sheila twice out of bed and kill her, and shoot Neville four times.
I wish you'd stop insinuating Sheila slept with both June and Neville, if it's your idea of a joke it's not funny and is disrespectful to 3 people who died in horrendous circumstances imo.
Please cut it Adam or I shall start removing your posts and we know where that will lead.
Don't know what gets into you at the weekend. :-\
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Everyone has to accept that it was impossible for Sheila to hear the rifle with the silencer attached. Youtube video posted.
She slept until it was her turn. As the twins did.
Bamber got her into the main bedroom and shot her twice. Sheila somehow avoiding getting any blood on her feet. Either lead by Bamber to avoid June's blood, or carried across the bedroom.
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Neville's blood wouldn't be found in the main bedroom. He was already on the move when being shot at. So not enough time for any blood to drip down.
So Sheila slept in the main bedroom, in bed with June. So she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys.
It was inconclusive whose slippers they were. Thread already created.
As I said when Lookout said Bamber wouldn't commit the massacre in case the windows had just been painted, 'you couldn't make it up'.
But YOU could, Adam, and frequently do when you present your own opinion as fact.
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Everyone has to accept that it was impossible for Sheila to hear the rifle with the silencer attached. Youtube video posted.
She slept until it was her turn. As the twins did.
Bamber got her into the main bedroom and shot her twice. Sheila somehow avoiding getting any blood on her feet. Either lead by Bamber to avoid June's blood, or carried across the bedroom.
I believe Scipio said the Youtube video didn't give an accurate picture. One has to wonder how, when she'd have had to step over a bloodied body, her feet remained clean.
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I wish you'd stop insinuating Sheila slept with both June and Neville, if it's your idea of a joke it's not funny and is disrespectful to 3 people who died in horrendous circumstances imo.
I don't suggest stupid things. Other people are suggesting this.
If Neville was shot four times in the spare bedroom, why were there no cartridges there ?
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Adam
I wish you'd stop insinuating Sheila slept with both June and Neville, if it's your idea of a joke it's not funny and is disrespectful to 3 people who died in horrendous circumstances imo.
Please cut it out Adam or I shall start removing your posts and we know where that will lead.
Don't know what gets into you at the weekend. :-\
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I believe Scipio said the Youtube video didn't give an accurate picture. One has to wonder how, when she'd have had to step over a bloodied body, her feet remained clean.
I didn't read anything from Scopio, apart from when he responded to Steve's post. When he confirmed the silencer does greatly reduce the noise.
It was impossible for Sheila or the twins to hear Bamber fire 11 shots into June and Neville. With the silencer on.
Agree how did Sheila avoid getting June's blood on her feet, or hands. She was either carried or flew across the bedroom. Or slept with June so she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys !
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Adam
I wish you'd stop insinuating Sheila slept with both June and Neville, if it's your idea of a joke it's not funny and is disrespectful to 3 people who died in horrendous circumstances imo.
Please cut it out Adam or I shall start removing your posts and we know where that will lead.
Don't know what gets into you at the weekend. :-\
Other people are suggesting this. They have been since two weeks ago.
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I don't suggest stupid things. Other people are suggesting this.
If Neville was shot four times in the spare bedroom, why were there no cartridges there ?
Adam, I've lost count of the times you've -deliberately- misrepresented what has been said by insinuating-NO!!! actually stating that Sheila was sharing a bed with both parents. You are the ONLY one who says this.
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I don't suggest stupid things. Other people are suggesting this.
If Neville was shot four times in the spare bedroom, why were there no cartridges there ?
That isn't the point and you know it.
I am asking you to stop banging on about June, Nevill and Sheila sleeping in the same bed, no one has suggested this as you know and many other forum members find it offensive.
Debate which room Sheila slept in as much as you like but please stop sniggering about it, it's not a joke and it's not funny.
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That isn't the point and you know it.
I am asking you to stop banging on about June, Nevill and Sheila sleeping in the same bed, no one has suggested this as you know and many other forum members find it offensive.
Debate where Sheila slept as much as you like but please stop sniggering about it, it's not funny.
Caroline is saying Sheila slept with June. To be a few feet nearer two six year old boys.
Which I have just given my opinion on.
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That isn't the point and you know it.
I am asking you to stop banging on about June, Nevill and Sheila sleeping in the same bed, no one has suggested this as you know and many other forum members find it offensive.
Debate which room Sheila slept in as much as you like but please stop sniggering about it, it's not a joke and it's not funny.
Other people have suggested it.
But are now pretending they didn't as it's such a naff idea. Now trying to focus the blame on me.
I'm not going to find the posts as it was two weeks ago.
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I didn't read anything from Scopio, apart from when he responded to Steve's post. When he confirmed the silencer does greatly reduce the noise.
It was impossible for Sheila or the twins to hear Bamber fire 11 shots into June and Neville. With the silencer on.
Agree how did Sheila avoid getting June's blood on her feet, or hands. She was either carried or flew across the bedroom. Or slept with June so she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys !
Certainly, had it been the kind of silencer we see used in films, that would have been the case, but they're illegal here and the moderator, which is legal, doesn't dull sound in the same way because it isn't intended to.
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Other people have suggested it.
But are now pretending they didn't as it's such a naff idea. Now trying to focus the blame on me.
I'm not going to find the posts as it was two weeks ago.
NO Adam. You are the ONLY one who has made the suggestion and every time you manage to make it sound foul and SICK, which I believe is your intention.
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Other people have suggested it.
But are now pretending they didn't as it's such a naff idea. Now trying to focus the blame on me.
I'm not going to find the posts as it was two weeks ago.
Adam, I wrote one of the posts and know for a fact no one except yourself suggested such a scenario.
You are passing the buck and blaming others, not the other way round.
Please just leave it, it's boring. Thank you
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I don't suggest stupid things. Other people are suggesting this.
If Neville was shot four times in the spare bedroom, why were there no cartridges there ?
NO ONE SAID HE WAS SHOT 4 TIMES IN THE SPARE ROOM!! Do bother reading anyone's posts because you get it wrong every time!!
Suggesting that Sheila was carried from the spare room to the main bedroom is stupid - where was the gun while he risked carrying her?
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Other people are suggesting this. They have been since two weeks ago.
No one did other than you!
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Adam, I wrote one of the posts and know for a fact no one except yourself suggested such a scenario.
You are passing the buck and blaming others, not the other way round.
Please just leave it, it's boring. Thank you
He is attempting to belittle other people's suggestions and scenarios but in doing so, he doesn't get what was suggested correct so just ends up making himself look foolish and petty. no change there then! ;D ;D ;D
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Ok. I'm the only one suggesting Sheila slept with June and Neville. I must have mis read other peoples posts two weeks ago when I believed this was being suggested.
Slapped wrists for me. It is a terrible suggestion and I have no need to make this suggestion. As I know there are loads of other ways Sheila would have ended up in the main bedroom. Which I have previously posted.
I misunderstood April today when she posted 'Unless Sheila was already in the main bedroom'. After I asked why Sheila had none of June's blood on her feet.
Caroline corrected me just now. Thank you Caroline. Suggesting Sheila slept with June so she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys. Neville sleeping in another bedroom, although no bullets were fired there.
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Other people are suggesting this. They have been since two weeks ago.
Only if you're suffering dual personality disorder and it's one of yours.
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Ok. I'm the only one suggesting Sheila slept with June and Neville. I must have mis read other peoples posts two weeks ago when I believed this was being suggested.
Slapped wrists for me. It is a terrible suggestion and I have no need to make this suggestion. As I know there are loads of other ways Sheila would have ended up in the main bedroom. Which I have previously posted.
I misunderstood April today when she posted 'Unless Sheila was already in the main bedroom'. After I asked why Sheila had none of June's blood on her feet.
Caroline corrected me. Suggesting Sheila slept with June so she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys. Neville sleeping in another bedroom.
You don't agree with it and made the suggestion that she was carried to the MB and didn't wake. We ALL think that's a terrible suggestion, we won't agree but now you have been corrected (and like Maggie said) move on!
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Caroline is saying Sheila slept with June. To be a few feet nearer two six year old boys.
Which I have just given my opinion on.
No that is not what was said. It was suggested at some time in the evening Sheila MAY have laid on the bed with june perhaps reading the bible or having a heart to heart and Neville perhaps left them to it for a while. That is all that was said .
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You don't agree with it and made the suggestion that she was carried to the MB and didn't wake. We ALL think that's a terrible suggestion, we won't agree but now you have been corrected (and like Maggie said) move on!
Everyone agrees that Sheila had none of June's blood on her hands and feet.
So she was either already in the bedroom. As suggested today, so she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys. Neville generously agreeing to move rooms.
She miraculously walked across the bedroom with Bamber, without getting any blood on her feet.
She woke and checked on June, getting blood all over her hands and feet. Then washed it all off before Bamber returned upstairs.
Bamber washed all the blood off after killing Sheila. Although there was no benefit for him to do this.
A half asleep Sheila was carried about 6 feet across the bedroom to the location where Bamber could execute her. Sheila not having the chance to see June and react.
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Other people have suggested it.
But are now pretending they didn't as it's such a naff idea. Now trying to xxxxx xxx xxxxx xx xx.
I'm not going to find the posts as it was two weeks ago.
It was a discussion - That is what the forum is about. The only one making CLAIMS is you.
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No that is not what was said. It was suggested at some time in the evening Sheila MAY have laid on the bed with june perhaps reading the bible or having a heart to heart and Neville perhaps left them to it for a while. That is all that was said .
Jan it was said that Sheila may have slept in the main bedroom with June, I think that is a strong possibility, her clothes were found in there Adam now accepts this.
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Ok. I'm the only one suggesting Sheila slept with xxxx xxx xxxxxx. I must have mis read other peoples posts two weeks ago when I believed this was being suggested.
Slapped wrists for me. It is a terrible suggestion and I have no need to make this suggestion. As I know there are loads of other ways Sheila would have ended up in the main bedroom. Which I have previously posted.
I misunderstood April today when she posted 'Unless Sheila was already in the main bedroom'. After I asked why Sheila had none of June's blood on her feet.
Caroline corrected me just now. Thank you Caroline. Suggesting Sheila slept with June so she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys. Neville sleeping in another bedroom, although no bullets were fired there.
Thank you Adam, can we now leave it behind.
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Everyone agrees that Sheila had none of June's blood on her hands and feet.
So she was either already in the bedroom. As suggested today, so she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys. Neville generously agreeing to move rooms.
She miraculously walked across the bedroom with Bamber, without getting any blood on her feet.
She woke and checked on June, getting blood all over her hands and feet. Then washed it all off before Bamber returned upstairs.
Bamber washed all the blood off after killing Sheila. Although there was no benefit for him to do this.
A half asleep Sheila was carried about 6 feet across the bedroom to the location where Bamber could execute her. Sheila not having the chance to see June and react.
Why cant you post without the digs?
No one knows if anyone washed blood off or not because the police did not as far as I know check the drains . Someone (Jean or Barbara) pointed out that the shower had been taken off its normal position which Neville never did . So there was a possibility that someone else at sometime had used the shower. That is all .
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Jan it was said that Sheila may have slept in the main bedroom with June, I think that is a strong possibility, her clothes were found in there but Adam is twisting it to make it into a sick joke.
I'm discussing the case. Asking why none of June's blood was on Sheila's feet. April saying today Sheila may have already been in the main bedroom.
Please don't say I am making it into a sick joke. Otherwise I will make another complaint to NGB.
Appalling moderating. Please PM if you think I am making sick jokes. Thank you.
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Why cant you post without the digs?
No one knows if anyone washed blood off or not because the police did not as far as I know check the drains . Someone (Jean or Barbara) pointed out that the shower had been taken off its normal position which Neville never did . So there was a possibility that someone else at sometime had used the shower. That is all .
There was no benefit for Bamber to wash June's blood off Sheila. In fact it was better to leave it on.
I don't believe Sheila had time to wash June's blood off her hands and feet before Bamber returned upstairs.
The police checking drains ;D
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Everyone agrees that Sheila had none of June's blood on her hands and feet.
So she was either already in the bedroom. As suggested today, so she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys. Neville generously agreeing to move rooms.
She miraculously walked across the bedroom with Bamber, without getting any blood on her feet.
She woke and checked on June, getting blood all over her hands and feet. Then washed it all off before Bamber returned upstairs.
Bamber washed all the blood off after killing Sheila. Although there was no benefit for him to do this.
A half asleep Sheila was carried about 6 feet across the bedroom to the location where Bamber could execute her. Sheila not having the chance to see June and react.
I'd find it enormously difficult to find a post which you haven't sought to distort or destroy. You appear to hate anyone else to have a thought which betters one of yours. If the above is anything to go by, very little effort is required.
DID Caroline specify that Sheila was in the MB for the sole purpose of being nearer -by 6 feet- to the boys?
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I'm discussing the case. Asking why none of June's blood was on Sheila's feet. April saying today Sheila may have already been in the main bedroom.
Please don't say I am making it into a sick joke. Otherwise I will make another complaint to NGB.
Appalling moderating. Please PM if you think I am making sick jokes. Thank you.
June's blood wouldn't be on Sheila's feet if she was already in the room! If Nevill was in the main bedroom and shot 4 times, where is his blood and where are the casings used to shoot him? Other than the ones used on Sheila, they are ALL concentrated near the door and his blood was found outside of Sheila's bedroom.
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I'm discussing the case. Asking why none of June's blood was on Sheila's feet. April saying today Sheila may have already been in the main bedroom.
Please don't say I am making it into a sick joke. Otherwise I will make another complaint to NGB.
Appalling moderating. Please PM if you think I am making sick jokes. Thank you.
If Sheila was in situ in the master bedroom she wouldn't have got any blood on her feet from June,or maybe there would have been some spatter on the nightie if Jeremy had shot June in her presence?
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Jan it was said that Sheila may have slept in the main bedroom with June, I think that is a strong possibility, her clothes were found in there Adam now accepts this.
yes I was one of the ones who suggested it was a possibility . But I don't think any of us claimed 100% that is what happened.The reports about where Neville was shot do seem to vary - I don't think we know whether he rushed into the bedroom from the landing - indicating he may have been somewhere else.
I still also have seen no proof that he was shot before the phone call ( if it happened)
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June's blood wouldn't be on Sheila's feet if she was already in the room! If Nevill was in the main bedroom and shot 4 times, where is his blood and where are the casings used to shoot him? Other than the ones used on Sheila, they are ALL concentrated near the door and his blood was found outside of Sheila's bedroom.
The evidence is that June was shot 8 times and Neville 4 times in the bedroom. Neville shot 3 times in the kitchen. Sheila was then shot twice in the main bedroom. The twins shot 8 times in there bedroom. The bullet casing show this.
None of Neville's blood was in the main bedroom as he was shot while moving. So no time for the blood to leak onto the floor.
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The evidence is that June was shot 8 times and Neville 4 times in the bedroom. Neville shot 3 times in the kitchen. Sheila was then shot twice in the main bedroom. The twins shot 8 times in there bedroom. The bullet casing show this.
None of Neville's blood was in the main bedroom as he was shot while moving. So no time for the blood to leak onto the floor.
No, that's the official line - there is no evidence that Nevill was shot in the main bedroom (no blood and no casings on his side of the bed), that's simply an assumption. The bullet casing show that the shooter was standing in the main bedroom NOT that Nevill was. You are simply trying to play Scipio and not doing very well. ;D ;D
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The evidence is that June was shot 8 times and Neville 4 times in the bedroom. Neville shot 3 times in the kitchen. Sheila was then shot twice in the main bedroom. The twins shot 8 times in there bedroom. The bullet casing show this.
None of Neville's blood was in the main bedroom as he was shot while moving. So no time for the blood to leak onto the floor.
excuse me ? Source for your last claim that no time for the blood to leak on the floor?
Also can you tell me where the shooter was standing when he was shot ?
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The evidence is that June was shot 8 times and Neville 4 times in the bedroom. Neville shot 3 times in the kitchen. Sheila was then shot twice in the main bedroom. The twins shot 8 times in there bedroom. The bullet casing show this.
None of Neville's blood was in the main bedroom as he was shot while moving. So no time for the blood to leak onto the floor.
In your opinion. Of course, there remains the question of how Nevill managed to escape passed Jeremy -who had a gun- and out of the door which Jeremy was possibly blocking.
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I know why Adam wont accept that Sheila was in that bedroom - because he can not claim she would have slept through her mother being shot next to her and just sit there waiting to be shot.
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None of Neville's blood was in the main bedroom as he was shot while moving. So no time for the blood to leak onto the floor.
This looks like "Making it up as you go" time.
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yes I was one of the ones who suggested it was a possibility . But I don't think any of us claimed 100% that is what happened.The reports about where Neville was shot do seem to vary - I don't think we know whether he rushed into the bedroom from the landing - indicating he may have been somewhere else.
I still also have seen no proof that he was shot before the phone call ( if it happened)
I agree there is no proof Sheila slept in the main bedroom but for me it answers a few questions I have struggled with before. I can also accept that Sheila MAY have wanted to be nearer to the boys through the night if they were as upset and frightened at being at WHF as Colin claims.
If Sheila was a good mum she would worry about her boys feeling far away from her in the night and it would be very natural for her to want to be in earshot and easily accessible to them, I think.
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In your opinion. Of course, there remains the question of how Nevill managed to escape passed Jeremy -who had a gun- and out of the door which Jeremy was possibly blocking.
He was either marched down to the kitchen to make it appear as if he had made the telephone call or Jeremy was going to replace the bedroom telephone after the event. Both risky as Jeremy had little control in scenario one and scenario two the housekeeper might have noticed that the telephone had been put back or June could even have mentioned to Pamela that there was no bedroom telephone in the Tuesday night call.
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I agree there is no proof Sheila slept in the main bedroom but for me it answers a few questions I have struggled with before. I can also accept that Sheila MAY have wanted to be nearer to the boys through the night if they were as upset and frightened at being at WHF as Colin claims.
If Sheila was a good mum she would worry about her boys feeling far away from her in the night and it would be very natural for her to want to be in earshot and easily accessible to them, I think.
This does raise the question,however,as to why she was unable to reach them during the massacre.
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Neville and June were shot in the main bedroom.
But on a discussion forum people can say Sheila was in bed with the mother she hated. So she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys. Neville sleeping in another bedroom.
It doesn't really bother me as none of it points to Bamber being innocent. It all just gives another reason why Sheila's feet were clean. Although I believe the evidence presented at court, that Sheila was sleeping in her own bedroom.
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In your opinion. Of course, there remains the question of how Nevill managed to escape passed Jeremy -who had a gun- and out of the door which Jeremy was possibly blocking.
This has been discussed a lot.
He either got past Bamber while being shot. Or followed Bamber when he went downstairs to reload.
It is much too risky for Bamber to march Neville downstairs. Anyway Neville was shot four times upstairs. In and around the head. Bamber was going after the instant execution.
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Neville and June were shot in the main bedroom.
But on a discussion forum people can say Sheila was in bed with the mother she hated. So she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys. Neville sleeping in another bedroom.
It doesn't really bother me as none of it points to Bamber being innocent. It all just gives another reason why Sheila's feet were clean. Although I believe the evidence presented at court, that Sheila was sleeping in her own bedroom.
Stop twisting words Adam. Things we discuss are possibilities not facts . You did not answer my question about where the shooter was in the room when Neville was shot? Do you think he just climbed over June and left her there?
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Neville and June were shot in the main bedroom.
But on a discussion forum people can say Sheila was in bed with the mother she hated. So she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys. Neville sleeping in another bedroom.
It doesn't really bother me as none of it points to Bamber being innocent. It all just gives another reason why Sheila's feet were clean. Although I believe the evidence presented at court, that Sheila was sleeping in her own bedroom.
That's an assumption not a fact!
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Neville and June were shot in the main bedroom.
But on a discussion forum people can say Sheila was in bed with the mother she hated. So she could be a few feet nearer two six year old boys. Neville sleeping in another bedroom.
It doesn't really bother me as none of it points to Bamber being innocent. It all just gives another reason why Sheila's feet were clean. Although I believe the evidence presented at court, that Sheila was sleeping in her own bedroom.
Your opinion only. WHERE is there evidence of Sheila having been sleeping in her own bedroom? Don't tell me you've been at the ouiji board again!!!
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'Jan I have thought that Sheila may have been on the double bed with June xxx xxxxx in Sheila's room but what puzzles me the beds in there do not look slept in although AE did say she was surprised the other bed (not Sheila's) was made up ready for sleeping in. As you have quoted none of us know what happened we can only speculate and that includes Adam'
Now now. This is what you said. Other posters supported this view. I never agreed with it, and was shot down by Jan.
Adam I don't agree with the post either place a COMMA after the word June and hey ho the whole meaning changes you will agree with that I am sure,
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'Jan I have thought that Sheila may have been on the double bed with June xxx xxxxx in Sheila's room but what puzzles me the beds in there do not look slept in although AE did say she was surprised the other bed (not Sheila's) was made up ready for sleeping in. As you have quoted none of us know what happened we can only speculate and that includes Adam'
Now now. This is what you said. Other posters supported this view. I never agreed with it, and was shot down by Jan.
Bad choice of words Adam.
Give it a rest you know you are wrong and Susan has absolutely no need to apologise for missing a comma.
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Bad choice of words Adam.
Give it a rest you know you are wrong and Susan has absolutely no need to apologise for missing a comma.
Jan
Thank you for your support.
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'Jan I have thought that Sheila may have been on the double bed with June xxx xxxxx in Sheila's room but what puzzles me the beds in there do not look slept in although AE did say she was surprised the other bed (not Sheila's) was made up ready for sleeping in. As you have quoted none of us know what happened we can only speculate and that includes Adam'
Now now. This is what you said. Other posters supported this view. I never agreed with it, and was shot down by Jan.
Eh? You're suing that to support the notion that a claim was made that they all slept in the same bed?? ;D ;D ;D ;D You have just made yourself look foolish again. YOU didn't read it properly ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi All, I have edited the threads, 'Main planks of the Innocence.....' and 'Trudie being vague again...'
Could we possibly now stop discussing the offending suggestion and get back to the subject of the thread.
Cheers ;D
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Hi All, I have edited the threads, 'Main planks of the Innocence.....' and 'Trudie being vague again...'
Could we possibly now stop discussing the offending suggestion and get back to the subject of the thread.
Cheers ;D
No one was discussing the offending suggestion Maggie - that was JUST Adam! Who, (when all comes to all) read the original post incorrectly. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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No one was discussing the offending suggestion Maggie - that was JUST Adam! Who, (when all comes to all) read the original post incorrectly. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I know I am not accusing anyone, just asking if we can move on so I can go cook some food ;D
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No one was discussing the offending suggestion Maggie - that was JUST Adam! Who, (when all comes to all) read the original post incorrectly. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Caroline
very well said. Adam knew exactly what was meant in the post he just twisted it slightly to suit.
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I know I am not accusing anyone, just asking if we can move on so I can go cook some food ;D
[/quote ;D]
Maggie
off you go and cook the dinner we will all behave ourselves till you get back ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Caroline
very well said. Adam knew exactly what was meant in the post he just twisted it slightly to suit.
I know he did suse, hopefully that is the end of it.
I've already burned my roasted vegetables to a crisp :'( :'(
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Where did you read that Sheila had spent "months" in hospital. I understand that apart from being hospitalized during her pregnancy, she spent two periods of six(?) and four(?) weeks in the psych clinic.
No one has every said Sheila was violent. Freddie said he was afraid for his safety but Sheila didn't actually do anything to him or any other person and someone would certainly have come forward had she.
Like you require proof of Julie telling the truth, I require proof of Nevill's call to Jeremy.
well jane 4 and 6 weeks do add up tomonths dont they. Youve got to be pretty sick to have to spend that much time in hospital.
well why would you be afraid for your safety.
that answers itself really doesnt it.
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The sights and silencer were removed from the gun shortly before the murders. Was it established that they were attached to the gun on the Tuesday night whilst Jeremy was attempting to shoot rabbits? If not who removed them? It's beyond the realms of possibility that Sheila in a psychotic episode took a screwdriver and attempted this herself.
there is no hard evidence the silencer was on the gun. I do not believe it was on when the murders were carried out. I think this was made to fit.
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Sheila did her best to explain that she could do damage------------but nobody listened. It's what's happening to this day. These are the kind of threats that should never be taken lightly or ignored. It's a patient's cry for help.
good point lookout.
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I have never said it wasn't physically possible for Sheila to have committed the murders. However, a person in the throws of psychosis doesn't use a weapon that is unfamiliar to them, they pick up with whatever is closest - they don't spend 5-10 minutes making sure they know what to push, pull or turn in order to get the weapon to operate.
i disagree . Shiela gre up on this farm and guns were part of that upbringing. A psychosis episode canladt hours caroline.
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Presumably Colin never saw "violence UNDER the surface" rise to the surface. Certainly, prior to being placed on medication -during her FIRST admission- Sheila did voice her concerns about being a danger to her children. Was this ever defined as physical or emotional danger? She said nothing about fearing this "danger" during her second admission. Sheila seemed quite capable of giving expression to her anger. There are no stories of Jeremy venting his, even when it may have been justified.
i dont believe we have all the information regarding shielas illness and what she was capable of. I also think we dismiss too easily her ability to carry outthemurders.
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well jane 4 and 6 weeks do add up tomonths dont they. Youve got to be pretty sick to have to spend that much time in hospital.
well why would you be afraid for your safety.
that answers itself really doesnt it.
She was pretty sick but she was taking medication.
Feddie gave his first statement when he thought Sheila had murdered her parents and children. Intentionally or not, it would have affected what he said. Colin did something similar but later he regretted having said she could be violent and admitted it being due to thinking she might have killed the children.
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I have to say that I felt damn sorry for Sheila,she'd had all she could tolerate and simply " lost it ". When you reach the point of no return such as she clearly did,there doesn't seem to be an end to it on the horizon and she didn't have the strength of mind to carry on. You don't have to be suffering from schizophrenia or any psychotic illness to experience such a feeling. Nobody knows what goes on in, or with the mind.
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I believe Scipio said the Youtube video didn't give an accurate picture. One has to wonder how, when she'd have had to step over a bloodied body, her feet remained clean.
we dont have conclusive evidence her feet were clean jane. Its very improbable isnt it.
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i dont believe we have all the information regarding shielas illness and what she was capable of. I also think we dismiss too easily her ability to carry outthemurders.
By the same token, I think people make excuses for Jeremy's behaviour and dismiss his behaviour while emphasising similar aspects of Julie's Of course Sheila had the ability however, she has no marks on her or her clothing to back up the notion that she fired the gun. I don't believe for one second that she would have used a weapon she was unfamiliar with in the throws of a psychotic episode. More than that though, this all happened on a night when Jeremy just happened to leave a gun and ammunition laying around.
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we dont have conclusive evidence her feet were clean jane. Its very improbable isnt it.
Well passing this off as the foot of a 27 year old is laughable.
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i disagree . Shiela gre up on this farm and guns were part of that upbringing. A psychosis episode canladt hours caroline.
Sheila didn't go shooting, she didn't like guns and didn't even want her children to have toy guns. She was at boarding school for much of her childhood - she clearly was NOT the hunting, shooting and fishing type!
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Well passing this off as the foot of a 27 year old is laughable.
Indeed,it could quite possibly have been June's !
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Indeed,it could quite possibly have been June's !
I agree, far more likely - it's certainly seen some miles!!
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By the same token, I think people make excuses for Jeremy's behaviour and dismiss his behaviour while emphasising similar aspects of Julie's Of course Sheila had the ability however, she has no marks on her or her clothing to back up the notion that she fired the gun. I don't believe for one second that she would have used a weapon she was unfamiliar with in the throws of a psychotic episode. More than that though, this all happened on a night when Jeremy just happened to leave a gun and ammunition laying around.
yes i agree that it is a coincidence that this happened after jeremy leaves the gun laying around.
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Well passing this off as the foot of a 27 year old is laughable.
is this junes foot, have i been misled ?
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yes i agree that it is a coincidence that this happened after jeremy leaves the gun laying around.
I don't think it is a coincidence and I don't believe he left the gun out.
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well jane 4 and 6 weeks do add up tomonths dont they. Youve got to be pretty sick to have to spend that much time in hospital.
well why would you be afraid for your safety.
that answers itself really doesnt it.
Over a period of 18 months she spent just over 5 weeks in hospital in 1983 and 4 weeks in 1985. A 4 week stay being the statutory time for emergency psych admissions.
I'm not certain what difference it would make by my telling you what would make me fear for my safety. Every person will give a different scenario of their fear.
I don't know what question you think has been answered here.
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I have to say that I felt damn sorry for Sheila,she'd had all she could tolerate and simply " lost it ". When you reach the point of no return such as she clearly did,there doesn't seem to be an end to it on the horizon and she didn't have the strength of mind to carry on. You don't have to be suffering from schizophrenia or any psychotic illness to experience such a feeling. Nobody knows what goes on in, or with the mind.
Of course Sheila's illness is the Defence's strongest card and one would expect them to play it for all it is worth. My mind went back to the carving in the chest of drawers of unknown provenance: "I hate this place" in the twins' bedroom at White House Farm,and the extract below from Colin's book:
On one of my first visits to the farm,Bambs was showing me some of her paintings and drawings,which her parents had kept from her schooldays,when one caught my eye as particularly striking. It portrayed three girls wearing long dresses standing on a spiral staircase,another girl at the bottom,kneeling on the floor in dark clothes,looking down and away from the others. Its imagery was both powerful and rather disturbing-not unlike Edward Munch's painting The Scream. When I asked Bambs about it,she told me she had painted it at Moira House when she was eleven years old. The three girls represented the older pupils who were always "really nasty" to her and always made out that they were "so superior and glamorous" and that she was always so "dowdy and pathetic." I told her I thought the painting very moving and advanced for the age at which she did it,and asked if she would let me have it.
I recently turned the picture over and looked at the back of it for the first time. There was a sinister black and white face with bright red lips,which had then been crossed out with two broad daubs of red paint. It is often the case that the aborted attempt at a picture can be even more significant than the one which is presented. The whole thing,which in its entirety is even more reminiscent of The Scream,now seems horribly symbolic.
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i disagree . Shiela gre up on this farm and guns were part of that upbringing. A psychosis episode canladt hours caroline.
I have a friend who is a farmer's daughter. She and her family live on the farm where she spent her childhood. She has never handled a gun.
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Over a period of 18 months she spent just over 5 weeks in hospital in 1983 and 4 weeks in 1985. A 4 week stay being the statutory time for emergency psych admissions.
I'm not certain what difference it would make by my telling you what would make me fear for my safety. Every person will give a different scenario of their fear.
I don't know what question you think has been answered here.
I would certainly FEAR for the safety of my family if I had a call after 3am and heard that my sister (if I had one) had gone crazy and had hold of a gun. I'd be so scared for their safety, I'd call 999. I wouldn't even think of a call to the boyfriend - mind you, if I had 26 minutes to spare (like Jeremy), I might be able give him a call and fit in a quick online shop!! :o :o
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is this junes foot, have i been misled ?
Do you think it looks like the foot of a 27 year old woman?
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Look at the comparison!
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I would certainly FEAR for the safety of my family if I had a call after 3am and heard that my sister (if I had one) had gone crazy and had hold of a gun. I'd be so scared for their safety, I'd call 999. I wouldn't even think of a call to the boyfriend - mind you, if I had 26 minutes to spare (like Jeremy), I might be able give him a call and fit in a quick online shop!! :o :o
Yes Caroline. Ironic that it seems Freddie has the right to feel afraid for his life but Sheila did nothing to him to warrant it, yet it appears Jeremy is justified in acting with complete disregard for his family's safety whilst Sheila has allegedly gone mad and has hold of a gun.
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Sheila didn't go shooting, she didn't like guns and didn't even want her children to have toy guns. She was at boarding school for much of her childhood - she clearly was NOT the hunting, shooting and fishing type!
she did go beating though and guns were around her all her life.
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Of course Sheila's illness is the Defence's strongest card and one would expect them to play it for all it is worth. My mind went back to the carving in the chest of drawers of unknown provenance: "I hate this place" in the twins' bedroom at White House Farm,and the extract below from Colin's book:
On one of my first visits to the farm,Bambs was showing me some of her paintings and drawings,which her parents had kept from her schooldays,when one caught my eye as particularly striking. It portrayed three girls wearing long dresses standing on a spiral staircase,another girl at the bottom,kneeling on the floor in dark clothes,looking down and away from the others. Its imagery was both powerful and rather disturbing-not unlike Edward Munch's painting The Scream. When I asked Bambs about it,she told me she had painted it at Moira House when she was eleven years old. The three girls represented the older pupils who were always "really nasty" to her and always made out that they were "so superior and glamorous" and that she was always so "dowdy and pathetic." I told her I thought the painting very moving and advanced for the age at which she did it,and asked if she would let me have it.
I recently turned the picture over and looked at the back of it for the first time. There was a sinister black and white face with bright red lips,which had then been crossed out with two broad daubs of red paint. It is often the case that the aborted attempt at a picture can be even more significant than the one which is presented. The whole thing,which in its entirety is even more reminiscent of The Scream,now seems horribly symbolic.
So sad Steve. A very disturbed mind in one so young which sadly led to her downfall in her adult life in which she couldn't cope. In her mind she must have been screaming,poor girl.
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she did go beating though and guns were around her all her life.
My partner used to go beating - never fired a gun though.