Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on April 26, 2011, 06:52:AM
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The damaged silencer (sbj/1) was not fitted to the anshulz rifle during the shootings, otherwise, other bullets would have shattered, in the same way that PV/20 did...
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I think it is hard to say that Mike. It would depend on when the damage to the SBJ/1 silencer occurred.
Was it before that night, or it may have been attached to a rifle and damaged that night after some shots had been fired.
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Or perhaps it had been taken to bits and re-assembled wrongly?
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Or perhaps it had been taken to bits and re-assembled wrongly?
... This is a possibility, but it also remains possible that if the silencer (SBJ/1) recieved a hard knock it could have forced the inner baffle plates out of alignment...
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I think it is hard to say that Mike. It would depend on when the damage to the SBJ/1 silencer occurred.
Was it before that night, or it may have been attached to a rifle and damaged that night after some shots had been fired.
... To my way of thinking, there were two states that the silencer (SBJ/1) could have been in, (1) undamaged, before it recieved a hard knock, (2) in a damaged state, after it was knocked. It should have been possible to tell if a bullet had been fired through this silencer, whichever state the silencer was in - since, ther are no rifling marks in the silencer, unlike the barrel of the anshulz rifle, and therefore, any bullet entering and passing through the silencer, and exiting it, will be distinctively marked with straiations, that are unique to the silencer, marks that will not be found on bullets fired through the gun, minus the silencer. These straiation marks may not be visible once the silencer becomes damaged and bullets fired through it shatter and disintigrate...
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Lets get this straight Mike. Are you saying that the silencers belonging to both the air rifle and the Anschutz .22 rifle were faulty?
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Thinking of Ralph and the 6 shots to his head that were delivered ..when it seems that there is no movement in his head..ie he does not fall down dead..then the presumption is that he was unconcious at this time.
If we view , reasonably, that the anshutz rifle was used to beat him with and did have the SBJ/1 silencer on it...then how does things fit in.
If the silencer became damaged in the beating to render him unconcious ..we should expect..if the rifle was used, for the other shots for the bullets to be fragmented or break up etc..but this does not seem to have happened...SO...what is going on....
Was the rifle used without the silencer...after this point...why take it off after the beat down..Would it be anticipated the silencer was damaged?? ....
Now lets twist a bit...Ralph gets 2 shots to his arm...beat down occurs with rifle..(mainly butt end?)..rendering Ralph unconcious.. rifle reloaded... an unconcious Ralph is shot 6 more times..with the silencer fitted...WHO SAYS IT GOT DAMAGED IN THE INITIAL BEATDOWN??.....no problems as silencer is still OK..... NOTE THOUGH JUST HOW OVER THE TOP THESE 6 SHOTS ARE....IS THIS PERSON CRAZY...
Our attacker then carries on this craziness with a further beatdown on the very dead Ralphs head...and in thus further beat down...the silencer does become damaged! overkill.
The pathologists reports on the beating type injuries to Ralphs head as being caused by differing items or parts of an item and not from just one part of an item.
Fits with a Sheila schizphrenic attack better than a JB attack.
Our rifle still has the silencer attached ..but now damaged....
Whats next...how about Sheila..attempts suicide with this rifle with the silencer still attached..we know it is possible..though awkard..BANG.... the bullet fragments and is slowed considerably by the damaged silencer..thus it has far less effect upon Sheila.
it may be speculation ...but some or all of it may well be correct.
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Sheila had an extremely close relationship with Nevill to the extent that when she was having a psychotic episode Nevill's very presence had the effect of calming her instantly. She doted on Nevill and would never have harmed him.
This makes the suggestion that she murdered Nevill utter fantasy and completely ridiculous no matter how disturbed she was.
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Sheila had an extremely close relationship with Nevill to the extent that when she was having a psychotic episode Nevill's very presence had the effect of calming her instantly. She doted on Nevill and would never have harmed him.
This makes the suggestion that she murdered Nevill utter fantasy and completely ridiculous no matter how disturbed she was.
That is shear speculation. I have a friend whose son doted on him as well. But one day he just snapped and attacked his father suddenly for no reason. He was soon after diagnosed as schizophrenic.
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I think it is hard to say that Mike. It would depend on when the damage to the SBJ/1 silencer occurred.
Was it before that night, or it may have been attached to a rifle and damaged that night after some shots had been fired.
... To my way of thinking, there were two states that the silencer (SBJ/1) could have been in, (1) undamaged, before it recieved a hard knock, (2) in a damaged state, after it was knocked. It should have been possible to tell if a bullet had been fired through this silencer, whichever state the silencer was in - since, ther are no rifling marks in the silencer, unlike the barrel of the anshulz rifle, and therefore, any bullet entering and passing through the silencer, and exiting it, will be distinctively marked with straiations, that are unique to the silencer, marks that will not be found on bullets fired through the gun, minus the silencer. These straiation marks may not be visible once the silencer becomes damaged and bullets fired through it shatter and disintigrate...
Mike
We have discussed this before in part in earlier posts. An undamaged silencer should leave no marks upon the fired bullet as the hole through the baffle plates has a greater diameter than the bullet itself and there should be no contact between the bullet and the baffle plates. You mentioned earlier that it might be possible to tell from a microsopic examination of the spent cartridge cases whether they had been fired through a silencer, based upon the greater backpressure expanding the cartridge case more when fired with a silencer fitted than fired without the silencer. I would be interested to hear more about this at some stage, bearing in mind the apparent existence of some of the cartridge cases which were not destroyed by Essex Police.
As far as damage to a silencer is concerned, if the baffle plates became out of line in the silencer tube, ie were at a slight angle within it rather than lined up evenly within the tube, it is possible that contact could be made with one or more of the baffle plates causing damage to or even fragmentation of the bullet. However it would take more than a slight knock to do this. The end cap would have to have become loosened to allow some movement of ther baffles inside. Alternatively there would have to have been a very major knock sufficient to bend the tube itself, or to dent it.
On a separate point referred to earlier, it is correct as you have stated that silencers are regularly fitted to air rifles, and the Parker Hale silencer is commonly used for this purpose. An air rifle would not be the first choice for a suicide, but would be lethal at close range. You have mentioned that the air rifle at WHF may have been the more powerful version, classified as a section 1 firearm. In that case it would have been just as effective as a .22 LR rifle. There seems to be very little information about this air rifle. Do you know if it had a magazine, i.e. could fire multiple shots, and whether it was spring or gas operated?
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Sheila had an extremely close relationship with Nevill to the extent that when she was having a psychotic episode Nevill's very presence had the effect of calming her instantly. She doted on Nevill and would never have harmed him.
This makes the suggestion that she murdered Nevill utter fantasy and completely ridiculous no matter how disturbed she was.
SHOWING YOURSELF TO BE A CLUELESS IGNORANT IDIOT THERE SANDY..
in some delusions that schizophrenics suffer they believe real people to be someone else...on that real point of fact..which is true as I know from experience from dealing with schizophrenics ...you look an absolute fool.
the one who is ridiculous is yourself sandy .
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Sheila had an extremely close relationship with Nevill to the extent that when she was having a psychotic episode Nevill's very presence had the effect of calming her instantly. She doted on Nevill and would never have harmed him.
This makes the suggestion that she murdered Nevill utter fantasy and completely ridiculous no matter how disturbed she was.
That is shear speculation. I have a friend whose son doted on him as well. But one day he just snapped and attacked his father suddenly for no reason. He was soon after diagnosed as schizophrenic.
It isn't actually Grahame as such was given in evidence by Farhad Emami, one of her closest friends who gave evidence as to her mental state before the second admission to hospital, her relationship with her parents and her mood and appearance in the months before her death.
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Sheila had an extremely close relationship with Nevill to the extent that when she was having a psychotic episode Nevill's very presence had the effect of calming her instantly. She doted on Nevill and would never have harmed him.
This makes the suggestion that she murdered Nevill utter fantasy and completely ridiculous no matter how disturbed she was.
SHOWING YOURSELF TO BE A CLUELESS IGNORANT IDIOT THERE SANDY..
in some delusions that schizophrenics suffer they believe real people to be someone else...on that real point of fact..which is true as I know from experience from dealing with schizophrenics ...you look an absolute fool.
the one who is ridiculous is yourself sandy .
Your own ignorance abounds as does your lack of etiquette.
We are not talking about SOME SCITZOPHRENICS we are talking about Sheila Caffell. Your one glove fits all approach reflects your own paranoia and illness. Keep taking the tablets. ;D
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Lets get this straight Mike. Are you saying that the silencers belonging to both the air rifle and the Anschutz .22 rifle were faulty?
As I understand it Mike is suggesting that one silencer was faulty/damaged and he believes that one may have been fitted to the air rifle. I also believe Mike is suggesting that the Anschutz rifle did not have a silencer attached.
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So how did Sheila's blood get into the baffles of the .22 rifle silencer then?
Mike is correct in what he states about the striations left on a bullet as it passes through the rifle barrel and the silencer. If the silencer is damaged, any tests conducted thereafter will never provide a true record of what occurred previously.
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So how did Sheila's blood get into the baffles of the .22 rifle silencer then?
As I understand it Mike's contention is that the silencer in which blood was found was not one which had been fitted to the Anschutz rifle on the night of the shooting at WHF. There were two other Parker Hale silencers seized by the police. There are also questions surrounding the way that silencer was handled before it was examined at the laboratory.
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So how did Sheila's blood get into the baffles of the .22 rifle silencer then?
As I understand it Mike's contention is that the silencer in which blood was found was not one which had been fitted to the Anschutz rifle on the night of the shooting at WHF. There were two other Parker Hale silencers seized by the police. There are also questions surrounding the way that silencer was handled before it was examined at the laboratory.
That is correct I understand so my question stands, how did Sheila's blood get inside a sound moderator?
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So how did Sheila's blood get into the baffles of the .22 rifle silencer then?
As I understand it Mike's contention is that the silencer in which blood was found was not one which had been fitted to the Anschutz rifle on the night of the shooting at WHF. There were two other Parker Hale silencers seized by the police. There are also questions surrounding the way that silencer was handled before it was examined at the laboratory.
That is correct I understand so my question stands, how did Sheila's blood get inside a sound moderator?
As I understand it from what Mike Tesko has posted there are three points: 1) it is not certain that it was Sheila's blood inside the silencer, 2) the circumstances surrounding the finding of the silencer and its handling by relatives prior to its examination in the laboratory raise concerns about possible contamination, whether by accident or otherwise and 3) Sheila's blood may have got into the silencer if it was attached to the air rifle and used by Sheila to fire the first non fatal shot, probably in the kitchen.
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Sheila had an extremely close relationship with Nevill to the extent that when she was having a psychotic episode Nevill's very presence had the effect of calming her instantly. She doted on Nevill and would never have harmed him.
This makes the suggestion that she murdered Nevill utter fantasy and completely ridiculous no matter how disturbed she was.
Your posts appear to suggest that you knew Sheila, Sandy. Can I ask you, in your experience of Sheila, what form did her illness take?
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The way I see it, police seized a silencer (SBJ/1) at the scene on 7th August, 1985, a fact verifiable by reference to other items seized by DS jones, on that same date, bearing the exhibit references, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4. A fact also proveable because on 9th August, 1985, police visited Jeremy and questioned him about the silencer - the day before relatives found the other one (DB/1), and 3 days before that additional silencer was handed to the police, by Peter Eaton...
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Mike with respect can we refer to theser silencers as 1 2 3 4.
It may be just me but all these numbers are doing my head in.
I realise you are trying to put the full details across, but I don,t think I am the only one Who,s eyes glaze over at the numbers ect.
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Mike with respect can we refer to theser silencers as 1 2 3 4.
It may be just me but all these numbers are doing my head in.
I realise you are trying to put the full details across, but I don,t think I am the only one Who,s eyes glaze over at the numbers ect.
Glad you bring that up! It is so hard to keep your concentration on those numbers. I guess it is even harder for me, being a non-English person... i have had to give up every single time this comes up.
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Sheila had an extremely close relationship with Nevill to the extent that when she was having a psychotic episode Nevill's very presence had the effect of calming her instantly. She doted on Nevill and would never have harmed him.
This makes the suggestion that she murdered Nevill utter fantasy and completely ridiculous no matter how disturbed she was.
Your posts appear to suggest that you knew Sheila, Sandy. Can I ask you, in your experience of Sheila, what form did her illness take?
Keira, no I wasn't acquainted with Sheila or any others within the family, I have researched these facts just as anyone else can do.
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no doubt "sandy" has a record ..because someone must have made one for "sandy" to know...of every psychotic episode that Sheila had when Neville was present and it being noted that each and every time Neville's presence calmed her instantly......AS IF BY MAGIC EH.....!
SANDY = MORE BULLSH*T THAN ALL THE FARMS IN THE UK.
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The facts stand that Nevill and Sheila had a very close relationship whilst that with June was strained. There is plenty of evidence that this was the case from several different sources. Anyone who states otherwise really doesn't understand the family history and should refrain from making silly comments.
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SHUT THE FOCK UP THEN SANDY