Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: nugnug on September 28, 2015, 05:09:PM
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is ann eaton a reialble witness.
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is ann eaton a reialble witness.
About what?
People can be wrong without being liars so just because she is honest doesn't mean she will be right about everything.
When people repeat hearsay reliability is a big problem because A) the person speaking to them could be wrong and B) they can misinterpret what the person speaking to them is saying.
When recounting things another problem is memories fade plus people pick up information and mistakenly recall knowing about things sooner than they actually did. In one case years later an officer read in a book that the ballistic expert knew right away what the caliber of weapon was. he then claimed that he knew right away what caliber weapons was used. The ballistic expert though didn't actually tell anyone at the scene. He made sure he was right in the lab first. So the cop was wrong about being informed of the caliber right away and he was wrong because instead of going by his notes exclusively he went by what he read in a book though what he read was incomplete. The power of suggestion is strong that is why witness lineups are so regulated.
If someone's photo is previously seen by the witness that can cause them to pick out the person instead of them going by their memory from what they saw at the scene. In one case a witness saw a photo of the suspects care with the license plate visible and the witness then claimed they recalled the license plate they saw though in fact they told police nothing of the sort at the time this came later after they looked at photos. The same things happens in other respects than just looking at photos and picking up info from that and incorporating it into the memory.
You have to look at all the relevant evidence and circumstances to determine whether her claims are accurate or not.
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Simple truth---------NO.
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somone is ethre a railble witnes or not a reliable witness.
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somone is ethre a railble witnes or not a reliable witness.
Nonsense. Historians and Courts- both of which are interested in evaluating truth look at all the available evidence and circumstances they don't just accept any and all claims no matter what.
Both look at whether it is a first person claim or not among other things.
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None of them were in my estimation because from what I can gather,all that went on was an assassination of his character and a trial by media---------------no evidence whatsoever and no proof that it was Jeremy.
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She gave her account the best that she could. Her evidence included her own thoughts and feelings plus things she had seen and heard from other people, so it was never going to be 100% accurate - but that doesn't mean she lied or was dis-honest in anyway.
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Thoughts,feelings and other people's gossip aren't good enough when someone's future hangs in the balance.
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Thoughts,feelings and other people's gossip aren't good enough when someone's future hangs in the balance.
Yes, Lookout we know YOU don't care about anyones thoughts of feelings.
But AE was asked questions and she answered them with her opinion, her opinions and answers and knowledge of those involved was negative against Bamber, because he killed his family and those around him knew it.
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Yes, Lookout we know YOU don't care about anyones thoughts of feelings.
But AE was asked questions and she answered them with her opinion, her opinions and answers and knowledge of those involved was negative against Bamber, because he killed his family and those around him knew it.
I'd like to know how " those around knew " as well.
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shes a reliable witness shes telling the truth about the slincer and the windows or shes not a reliable and could be lying or mistaken about some or all of those things.
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I dont think shes a reliable witness at all
ae was the first one to decide it wasnt shiela and then set about putting the seeds of doubt in the rest of the family.
Not one single person knew for sure how it had all happened but the evidence presented all comes originally from the families conclusions.
they discussed together how he would have done it and i have serious doubts about wether or not they told the truth about everything.
ae didnt know jeremy that well but clearly was not going to let him have what she thought was rightly the families. They had motive to lie in that they wanted the money too.
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AE didn't even know the family were staying at WHF for a few days so that was the extent of their knowledge of what went on at the Bamber household.
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AE didn't even know the family were staying at WHF for a few days so that was the extent of their knowledge of what went on at the Bamber household.
I don't know what my brother and his family is doing this week beyond what they normally do. That doesn't mean I can't give evidence of what they normally do or what they are like or what objects they own...
I can give evidence that none of them fired any firearms. My grandfathers, and uncle are the only people in my family apart from me who have done so. It's easy to know such things...
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I don't know what my brother and his family is doing this week beyond what they normally do. That doesn't mean I can't give evidence of what they normally do or what they are like or what objects they own...
I can give evidence that none of them fired any firearms. My grandfathers, and uncle are the only people in my family apart from me who have done so. It's easy to know such things...
You'd argue what your brother was doing even if he said himself that he wasn't.
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You'd argue what your brother was doing even if he said himself that he wasn't.
My brother does some odd things, he tends to do what he feels like not what he is supposed to do. This means he does things people can't believe (because you would not expect him to do such bad things or conversely you would not think someone could just up and build something amazingly complex without any experience or training in building such like fountains, amazing brick stoops...) Still he often exaggerates so it is never possible to tell what the truth is solely on his word. You have to ask others and dig deeper. Some of the outrageous things he alleges are actually true- I have even witnessed some of them but others he claims happened when I was present I can refute. Knowing he sometimes makes up major whoppers means I take his more wild claims with a grain of salt without proof.
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I don't know what my brother and his family is doing this week beyond what they normally do. That doesn't mean I can't give evidence of what they normally do or what they are like or what objects they own...
I can give evidence that none of them fired any firearms. My grandfathers, and uncle are the only people in my family apart from me who have done so. It's easy to know such things...
But if you don't see your brother for months on end, unless someone fills you in with his movements you can only guess at what he does ie takes up a new hobby/buys a new pair of SHOES?/SLIPPERS? ALL you can say is that it's to the best of your knowledge. Likewise, Because Sheila and Ann rarely got together -one reason probably being the nearly 10yr age gap- they lived in entirely different worlds, it's highly unlikely that Ann could say much about her that wasn't guess work.
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My brother does some odd things, he tends to do what he feels like not what he is supposed to do. This means he does things people can't believe (because you would not expect him to do such bad things or conversely you would not think someone could just up and build something amazingly complex without any experience or training in building such like fountains, amazing brick stoops...) Still he often exaggerates so it is never possible to tell what the truth is solely on his word. You have to ask others and dig deeper. Some of the outrageous things he alleges are actually true- I have even witnessed some of them but others he claims happened when I was present I can refute. Knowing he sometimes makes up major whoppers means I take his more wild claims with a grain of salt without proof.
Sounds as if you suffer with dual personality syndrome.
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Sounds as if you suffer with dual personality syndrome.
And that's just a start. ;D ;D ;D
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No they are not.
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i dont think she is ethere but that doesnt necarsrly mean she lied about everything.
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Sounds as if you suffer with dual personality syndrome.
You have a severe case of projection you should seek mental help instead of pretending to be a mental health expert.
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You have a severe case of projection you should seek mental help instead of pretending to be a mental health expert.
From what I've seen of your behaviour, given your extreme paranoia and your inability to recognize your own projection, I'd say it was you who are in need of mental health care.
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From what I've seen of your behaviour, given your extreme paranoia and your inability to recognize your own projection, I'd say it was you who are in need of mental health care.
He needs more than that, poor guy
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You have a severe case of projection you should seek mental help instead of pretending to be a mental health expert.
The only one here pretending to be something they aren't is you! But not only should you seek help from a mental health practitioner - you NEED to!
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The only one here pretending to be something they aren't is you! But not only should you seek help from a mental health practitioner - you NEED to!
I'm just an objective rational person who looks at this case in an objective rational matter while your and your brethren are busy making up revisionist nonsense about this case.
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I'm just an objective rational person who looks at this case in an objective rational matter while your and your brethren are busy making up revisionist nonsense about this case.
Ha, ha!! You keep telling yourself that!!
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AE and all were sorely misled once the tables turned by S.Jones who only wanted to make a name for himself and an increase in status to go with it for being such a " clever man " in solving WHAT exactly ??
He relied purely and simply on what had allegedly been spoken in the past and of course the fact that " nobody " liked Jeremy. In fact the man was hated with a passion which was plain to see.The " cuckoo " !
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some of the eaton statments do seem to contradict the police and proscution statements a bit.
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some of the eaton statments do seem to contradict the police and proscution statements a bit.
I don't think AE lied,but pressure put on by the family made EP follow their lead because they were somehow culpable.
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some of the eaton statments do seem to contradict the police and proscution statements a bit.
Her allegation was less favorable to conspiracy theorists than what police said.
Police said they told her to not tell anyone about taking the paint sample. In turn conspiracy theorists claim they damaged the mantle as they were taking the samples and they told her not to tell anyone they damaged it.
Her allegation that they told her it about the shoes is discounted and ignored by conspiracy theorists. This they are honest about because they can't craft any conspiracy around the shoes that related to the conviction. The truth that they said it about the paint is more useful to them so in this instance they accept the truth though they go beyond and say though they claim it was to keep it a secret they took the paint sample they allege it was about causing damage.
Conspiracy theorists don't give a damn about the truth they pick the version most suitable to be twisted- sometimes the truth is easier to twist than an erroneous claim is, other times an erroneous claim is easier to twist. So one must start from scratch instead of taking any conspiracy theorists claims at face value.
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some of the eaton statments do seem to contradict the police and proscution statements a bit.
give me an example
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well her cliams about the windows dont exactly fit with what the police said and her cliam that jeremy had a houdni like ability to get in and out of whf doesn't sit that well with the prosecutions cliam that he used a hacksaw to get in.
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give me an example
Since nugs dropped the ball I will provide a clear example.
Ann Eaton said they told her to keep quiet about them taking shoes while they say they told her to keep quiet about them taking paint samples.
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There is no proof that AE is fabricated anything.
She knew all the family and Bamber. So the police asked her to do a WS and testify. The defence having the opportunity to cross examine her.
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There is no proof that AE is fabricated anything.
She knew all the family and Bamber. So the police asked her to do a WS and testify. The defence having the opportunity to cross examine her.
I don't think she fabricated - I think she embellished - which can be just as dangerous . But perhaps just because she genuinely believed he was guilty.
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Most people believe and have faith in the police.This is exactly what went on in this case that whatever EP said and did was gospel according to THEIR rules.
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Most people believe and have faith in the police.This is exactly what went on in this case that whatever EP said and did was gospel according to THEIR rules.
I think the majority want to do a decent job, but I KNOW there are some who are so bent, I'm surprised they can keep their balance and wouldn't have a problem 'fitting someone up'. Some wouldn't necessarily care if the person in question was guilty or not (simply because they are too lazy to find the real culprit or are overly ambitious). What I don't believe (however), is that they would knowing fit an innocent person up if they KNEW he/she was innocent and knew who the real culprit was/is.
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I think the majority want to do a decent job, but I KNOW there are some who are so bent, I'm surprised they can keep their balance and wouldn't have a problem 'fitting someone up'. Some wouldn't necessarily care if the person in question was guilty or not (simply because they are too lazy to find the real culprit or are overly ambitious). What I don't believe (however), is that they would knowing fit an innocent person up if they KNEW he/she was innocent and knew who the real culprit was/is.
EP didn't " fit-up " JB as such. They,along with the relatives were badly misguided. For all anyone knows,some officers probably knew that Jeremy was innocent but won't argue or go against what their " chief " says and whether S Jones knew in his heart that what he was about to do was wrong------we'll never know. Come what may they needed a conviction.
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EP didn't " fit-up " JB as such. They,along with the relatives were badly misguided. For all anyone knows,some officers probably knew that Jeremy was innocent but won't argue or go against what their " chief " says and whether S Jones knew in his heart that what he was about to do was wrong------we'll never know. Come what may they needed a conviction.
Lookout, I can't help but wonder where the business would be today in Jeremy's hands. The other side of the family, whilst not having the educational benefits of Sheila and Jeremy appear to have had, bred in them, a strong work ethic sadly lacking in the Bamber siblings, neither of whom showed any interest in farming, other that the financial benefits it gave them. The businesses, as a result of their hard work, thrives. I can't help but feel that Neville and June would have been proud of what's been achieved.
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Lookout, I can't help but wonder where the business would be today in Jeremy's hands. The other side of the family, whilst not having the educational benefits of Sheila and Jeremy appear to have had, bred in them, a strong work ethic sadly lacking in the Bamber siblings, neither of whom showed any interest in farming, other that the financial benefits it gave them. The businesses, as a result of their hard work, thrives. I can't help but feel that Neville and June would have been proud of what's been achieved.
I doubt if he'd still be part of it, having sold his shares and the family silver - he probably would have ended up in trouble again or followed in the steps of Lord Lucan.
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Lookout, I can't help but wonder where the business would be today in Jeremy's hands. The other side of the family, whilst not having the educational benefits of Sheila and Jeremy appear to have had, bred in them, a strong work ethic sadly lacking in the Bamber siblings, neither of whom showed any interest in farming, other that the financial benefits it gave them. The businesses, as a result of their hard work, thrives. I can't help but feel that Neville and June would have been proud of what's been achieved.
He would have sold it. He killed Sheila and the boys so that he could sell the business without having to share it. Under the will if he kept farming it he would have gotten the profits and not had to share but if he sold it then he would have to split the proceeds. He killed so he could sell it without having to split it up and so he could get all of June's assets instead of having to slip any of them. Plus it meant when granny died he would get June's entire share.
He would have blown it all partying and boozing then have to have either worked some dead end job or resort to more criminal activity and end up in and out of prison.
I know someone who got a huge settlement, lived the highlife for 2 years then was broke, his wife left him, all his moocher friends stopped hanging out with him and now he lives in a rat hole working a menial job and all he can do is live in the past talking about the good old days when he was living the high life and his antics then. It's like those 2 years are his whole life. People don't even want to be around him they are so sick of the same old stories. That is how Jeremy might have ended up.
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Lookout, I can't help but wonder where the business would be today in Jeremy's hands. The other side of the family, whilst not having the educational benefits of Sheila and Jeremy appear to have had, bred in them, a strong work ethic sadly lacking in the Bamber siblings, neither of whom showed any interest in farming, other that the financial benefits it gave them. The businesses, as a result of their hard work, thrives. I can't help but feel that Neville and June would have been proud of what's been achieved.
Sadly,Jeremy never got a chance to prove himself with the businesses. When you've" acquired " a shed-load of money to back you up,a business will thrive,even when it's at the expense of someone else.
None of us know how Jeremy would have fared if he hadn't gone to prison and we certainly wouldn't have been interested either as there'd have been no way of knowing anyway. He'd have been just another " person " and not the one who's embroiled in this mess.
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Sadly,Jeremy never got a chance to prove himself with the businesses. When you've" acquired " a shed-load of money to back you up,a business will thrive,even when it's at the expense of someone else.
None of us know how Jeremy would have fared if he hadn't gone to prison and we certainly wouldn't have been interested either as there'd have been no way of knowing anyway. He'd have been just another " person " and not the one who's embroiled in this mess.
Cock appointed Boutflour in charge because Jeremy didn't want the job he was too busy living in London and having fun. If he wanted to run it he could have had Cock pick him. It is obvious he had no interest in running things.
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He would have sold it. He killed Sheila and the boys so that he could sell the business without having to share it. Under the will if he kept farming it he would have gotten the profits and not had to share but if he sold it then he would have to split the proceeds. He killed so he could sell it without having to split it up and so he could get all of June's assets instead of having to slip any of them. Plus it meant when granny died he would get June's entire share.
He would have blown it all partying and boozing then have to have either worked some dead end job or resort to more criminal activity and end up in and out of prison.
I know someone who got a huge settlement, lived the highlife for 2 years then was broke, his wife left him, all his moocher friends stopped hanging out with him and now he lives in a rat hole working a menial job and all he can do is live in the past talking about the good old days when he was living the high life and his antics then. It's like those 2 years are his whole life. People don't even want to be around him they are so sick of the same old stories. That is how Jeremy might have ended up.
I'm not sure he would be broke. Over £436,000 is a lot of money now for a single man, let alone in 1985.
He loved the good things in life so much, he would have been terrified of losing it all. He killed everyone so he could stop working. For ever.
Were high interest savings accounts in existence in 1985. He also had property, his cottage and Sheila's flat I believe.
So would have partied but would have budgeted for it to last.
He may have gone into business and lost it. Neville said he had no business sense. I believe Bamber spoke to Julie about opening a wine bar.
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I'm not sure he would be broke. Over £436,000 is a lot of money now for a single man, let alone in 1985.
He loved the good things in life so much, he would have been terrified of losing it all. He killed everyone so he could stop working. For ever.
So would have partied but would have budgeted for it to last.
He may have gone into business and lost it. Neville said he had no business sense. I believe Bamber spoke to Julie about opening a wine bar.
Not much these days, wouldn't even buy him much of a property in London.
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Not much these days, wouldn't even buy him much of a property in London.
if it were wisely invested he would be a multi millionaire today. But he was spending money like water not looking to invest wisely. When your goal is to look like a big shot you spend every dime then your "friends" who were helping you spend your money flee.
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Cock appointed Boutflour in charge because Jeremy didn't want the job he was too busy living in London and having fun. If he wanted to run it he could have had Cock pick him. It is obvious he had no interest in running things.
Not because he was on valium and drugs then ? Even Colin went away to escape the Press . And you would think if he was guilty he would have done everything to appear to be the perfect grieving son - even just for a few weeks. Perhaps his behaviour shows lack of respect but it does not prove he was a murderer .
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Didn't he already have his cottage and Sheila's flat ?
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Didn't he already have his cottage and Sheila's flat ?
what are you asking - be clearer - none of the estate had been settled. There were mortgages mortgages to be paid off on the flat etc . It takes months to sort out probate - especially with the alleged land deals and loans involved .
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what are you asking - be clearer - none of the estate had been settled. There were mortgages mortgages to be paid off on the flat etc . It takes months to sort out probate - especially with the alleged land deals and loans involved .
The estate was responsible for paying the mortgages. He took physical possession of the flat and enjoyed its use though he didn't have official title to it.
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I don't believe he would be daft enough to blow all the money.
He would have just continued doing what he was doing. Travelling, partying and eating in nice places. He would have been content with that. Better than 14 hour work days anyway.
Some lottery winners go out and blow it on buying dozens of cars, or hard drugs. But not Bamber.
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I don't believe he would be daft enough to blow all the money.
He would have just continued doing what he was doing. Travelling, partying and eating in nice places. He would have been content with that. Better than 14 hour work days anyway.
Some lottery winners go out and blow it on buying dozens of cars, or hard drugs. But not Bamber.
Spending all your money on expensive hotels, traveling and partying is blowing all your money!
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what are you asking - be clearer - none of the estate had been settled. There were mortgages mortgages to be paid off on the flat etc . It takes months to sort out probate - especially with the alleged land deals and loans involved .
Be clearer. What are you going on about again ?
It was a simple 9 word question.
He inherited the use of Sheila's flat and was already living in a cottage.
He could also always stay at WHF. Even if he forgot his key.
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The estate was responsible for paying the mortgages. He took physical possession of the flat and enjoyed its use though he didn't have official title to it.
exactly. That's what I was saying he did not own it.
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Be clearer. What are you going on about again ?
It was a simple 9 word question.
He inherited the use of Sheila's flat and was already living in a cottage.
He could also always stay at WHF. Even if he forgot his key.
But he did not own them at that point - Probate would take a long time to sort out. I would imagine the lease on WHF would have been terminated technically on the Bambers death so the trustees could have refused to let him stay in the house if they wanted to. There was a web to untangle before he would have technically inherited .
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Spending all your money on expensive hotels, traveling and partying is blowing all your money!
The judge said the final amount Bamber would have got would have been well over £436,000. Which is well over 1 million in today's money.
Today, if he spent £40,000 a year, that would last over 25 years. For a single man today, with no ties or mortgage, £40,000 is enough to party and travel.
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Not because he was on valium and drugs then ? Even Colin went away to escape the Press . And you would think if he was guilty he would have done everything to appear to be the perfect grieving son - even just for a few weeks. Perhaps his behaviour shows lack of respect but it does not prove he was a murderer .
He would have needed a course a RADA to maintain the depiction of someone experiencing grief. Part of the problem may have been that because he didn't feel grief he couldn't show it. He didn't appear to try to reach out to the wider family. He didn't make much effort to keep them in the loop. Pam was his nearest living relative. She'd lost her only sister. He seems not to have given her his support, NOR sought hers. His one aim appeared to be to get as much ready cash as quickly as possible and use it to party.
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He would have needed a course a RADA to maintain the depiction of someone experiencing grief. Part of the problem may have been that because he didn't feel grief he couldn't show it. He didn't appear to try to reach out to the wider family. He didn't make much effort to keep them in the loop. Pam was his nearest living relative. She'd lost her only sister. He seems not to have given her his support, NOR sought hers. His one aim appeared to be to get as much ready cash as quickly as possible and use it to party.
Jane,I'm afraid the " wider family " didn't want him. They may have looked as though they were supporting him but any show of friendliness would have gone against the grain for what was on their minds. It was they who didn't want any closeness as it would have shown a " two-facedness " that wouldn't have gone down too well over the coming months.
None of them went running to him.
Pam had asked how he was when he was in prison and that didn't go down well either. It's plain to see that there was a hostility between families even before the tragedy.
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Jane,I'm afraid the " wider family " didn't want him. They may have looked as though they were supporting him but any show of friendliness would have gone against the grain for what was on their minds. It was they who didn't want any closeness as it would have shown a " two-facedness " that wouldn't have gone down too well over the coming months.
None of them went running to him.
Pam had asked how he was when he was in prison and that didn't go down well either. It's plain to see that there was a hostility between families even before the tragedy.
Lookout, whilst I'm very aware that the reading of a will can tear families apart, it's been my experience that in the time between the death(s) and the funeral(s) even the most fractured families come together. It sounds as if Pam genuinely cared but there are no reports of him showing similar to her.
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Cock appointed Boutflour in charge because Jeremy didn't want the job he was too busy living in London and having fun. If he wanted to run it he could have had Cock pick him. It is obvious he had no interest in running things.
I thought Peter Eaton as appointed manager?
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I thought Peter Eaton as appointed manager?
Yes I misspoke it was Eaton.
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Yes I misspoke it was Eaton.
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