Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Gillian on September 28, 2015, 02:38:PM
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This is on the Daily Mirror website this afternoon and thought it may be of interest:-
Evil killer Jeremy Bamber posts bizarre apology for 'failing to clear his name' to parents he massacred
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/evil-killer-jeremy-bamber-posts-6531547
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I'm hoping upon hope that Jeremy proves everyone wrong about his conviction.
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This is on the Daily Mirror website this afternoon and thought it may be of interest:-
Evil killer Jeremy Bamber posts bizarre apology for 'failing to clear his name' to parents he massacred
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/evil-killer-jeremy-bamber-posts-6531547
"Dad especially would be disappointed in me for having failed to prove my innocence and therefore cleared their names too within thirty years."
I agree it is odd, clear their names of what?
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If he is innocent I don't think it is bizzare - the implication is that Jeremy turned out to be a murderer partly because of his upbringing -so if he is guilty then his parents raised a murderer and failed to protect their daughter and grandchildren from him knowing he was evil ( if you believe BW)
If he is innocent then it was their daughters illness that was responsible and not them.
And I just think he means that his father would not have wanted him to serve a life sentence and that JB should somehow have the knowledge to just get on with it and sort it out.
Just my interpretation that's all - of course if he is guilty then it is a nonsense.
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"Dad especially would be disappointed in me for having failed to prove my innocence and therefore cleared their names too within thirty years."
I agree it is odd, clear their names of what?
He's obviously read about the ( clueless ) way that his parents brought both children up and so he wants to prove everyone wrong,which is only natural when he's the innocent one.
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Things like this is why I believe him to be a psychopath.
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He's obviously read about the ( clueless ) way that his parents brought both children up and so he wants to prove everyone wrong,which is only natural when he's the innocent one.
He read about how they brought him up? He lived it he didn't have to read about it.
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He read about how they brought him up? He lived it he didn't have to read about it.
No - lookout means things that have been written in books - especially about June . They may have been exaggerated for all we know.
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Things like this is why I believe him to be a psychopath.
Well I believe he thinks he is innocent ( whether he is or not ) I genuinely think in his mind he is.
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No - lookout means things that have been written in books - especially about June . They may have been exaggerated for all we know.
That's what I took her post as meaning too. But the worst things I have read about June and the pain she caused her children through their heavily religious upbringing wasn't in books - it was on here. :-\
Well I believe he thinks he is innocent ( whether he is or not ) I genuinely think in his mind he is.
I can agree with that to an extent, he is trying to act like he is innocent, and that is difficult because he isn't - so doesn't know how he should react- or how he would really feel if he was innocent of a crime and in prison for so long for a crime they didn't commit - so he is projecting what he thinks he would and should feel like.
He is also in PR mode - because of the high profile natures of the two books this year and the numerous negative newpapers articles about him - which is why he is trying to win public support with his Baking and his Apology - he understands a case like this needs public support.
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Well I believe he thinks he is innocent ( whether he is or not ) I genuinely think in his mind he is.
Well, I guess if he said his mother was a religious maniac, his father was past it, his sister was mad and his nephews were a mill stone round their father's neck, he'd have justified it as doing everyone a favour so how could that constitute guilt?
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That's what I took her post as meaning too. But the worst things I have read about June and the pain she caused her children through their heavily religious upbringing wasn't in books - it was on here. :-\
I can agree with that to an extent, he is trying to act like he is innocent, and that is difficult because he isn't - so doesn't know how he should react- or how he would really feel if he was innocent of a crime and in prison for so long for a crime they didn't commit - so he is projecting what he thinks he would and should feel like.
He is also in PR mode - because of the high profile natures of the two books this year and the numerous negative newpapers articles about him - which is why he is trying to win public support with his Baking and his Apology - he understands a case like this needs public support.
Personally I found Colins book very difficult to read with what he said about June . I have not read many other books.
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He read about how they brought him up? He lived it he didn't have to read about it.
But this is where you're wrong. Jeremy saw NO wrong in either parent,but Sheila did. It's often said that those looking in from the outside can see more than those who live with them. Jeremy saw no wrong in his mother,but I certainly did and he's still no wiser,but who would I be to tell him that his mother was more mentally ill than Sheila ?
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Personally I found Colins book very difficult to read with what he said about June . I have not read many other books.
I agree Jan, think Colin was still very raw and struggling with anger and pain when he wrote the book, he used it to help his healing and accepting process. It was a very personal account and possibly not always totally accurate. No one can deny it was a horrendous loss and trauma for Colin, more than for anyone else really because he lost his precious boys and to lose a child is the one thing you never recover from imo.
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The article is littered with inaccuracies but this apology may be a halfway house to finally admitting his culpability.
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The article is littered with inaccuracies but this apology may be a halfway house to finally admitting his culpability.
Steve, please don't hold your breath waiting for it to go any further.
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That's what I took her post as meaning too. But the worst things I have read about June and the pain she caused her children through their heavily religious upbringing wasn't in books - it was on here. :-\
I can agree with that to an extent, he is trying to act like he is innocent, and that is difficult because he isn't - so doesn't know how he should react- or how he would really feel if he was innocent of a crime and in prison for so long for a crime they didn't commit - so he is projecting what he thinks he would and should feel like.
He is also in PR mode - because of the high profile natures of the two books this year and the numerous negative newpapers articles about him - which is why he is trying to win public support with his Baking and his Apology - he understands a case like this needs public support.
You obviously don't either remember,choose not to remember,or have completely ignored CC's remark about June ?
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You obviously don't either remember,choose not to remember,or have completely ignored CC's remark about June ?
I do remember them. I didn't say nothing negative has been said about June in books, I said the worst I have seen about June has been posted on here - and it has.
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I do remember them. I didn't say nothing negative has been said about June in books, I said the worst I have seen about June has been posted on here - and it has.
Maybe the reason for that is that too many of you are blinkered and because I've had experience of " sweet,elderly ladies " being like ogres, has got something to do with it that I grasped the reason for Sheila's behaviour. Which is something that Jeremy hasn't obviously latched on to. Sheila didn't just become unwell,she was driven to it by her mother.
June didn't like anyone,including CC and JM,or any of Sheila's friends. Life was more than uncomfortable all round at WHF.
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Maybe the reason for that is that too many of you are blinkered and because I've had experience of " sweet,elderly ladies " being like ogres, has got something to do with it that I grasped the reason for Sheila's behaviour. Which is something that Jeremy hasn't obviously latched on to. Sheila didn't just become unwell,she was driven to it by her mother.
June didn't like anyone,including CC and JM,or any of Sheila's friends. Life was more than uncomfortable all round at WHF.
No comment.
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my comment is that Colins opinion was colins opinion. Others may not have seen June in the way he did . I just could not understand why he would chose to air that "opinion" when it had nothing really to do with the case if Sheila was not responsible. He did not as far as I remember imply Junes behaviour was responsible for Jeremys actions.
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No - lookout means things that have been written in books - especially about June . They may have been exaggerated for all we know.
He was the source of many of the claims of his mother being a religious nut, Sheila being certifiable and and the family being so dysfunctional.
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I agree Jan, think Colin was still very raw and struggling with anger and pain when he wrote the book, he used it to help his healing and accepting process. It was a very personal account and possibly not always totally accurate. No one can deny it was a horrendous loss and trauma for Colin, more than for anyone else really because he lost his precious boys and to lose a child is the one thing you never recover from imo.
Maggie just read your comments about Colin and his anger and pain and I agree with you it is strange none of his anger and pain was directed at Jeremy he did not speak very badly about Jeremy in the book I wonder why. Maggie I am not disagreeing with your post have always wondered why he did not direct anger towards Jeremy he said they were like brothers.
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Jeremy by all accounts wasn't treated as appallingly as Sheila was. It was just unfortunate that June never forgave the " incident " in the field so continued her lectures on morals whenever she got the chance. The Bible did overtime which is evident by the dog-eared pages in it. Sheila was never allowed to forget that she was the " devils " child,poor woman.
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Maggie just read your comments about Colin and his anger and pain and I agree with you it is strange none of his anger and pain was directed at Jeremy he did not speak very badly about Jeremy in the book I wonder why. Maggie I am not disagreeing with your post have always wondered why he did not direct anger towards Jeremy he said they were like brothers.
I know susie, it's very strange really. Sheila obviously vented her anger and hurt about June to Colin but it's hard to know where anger began and psychosis ended as often a PS can have single out a family member who is the object of their misdirected anger and often that can be the mother. On the other hand it's accepted to a point at least that June failed to understand Sheila and probably vice versa which caused some hostility at times :-\
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Jeremy by all accounts wasn't treated as appallingly as Sheila was. It was just unfortunate that June never forgave the " incident " in the field so continued her lectures on morals whenever she got the chance. The Bible did overtime which is evident by the dog-eared pages in it. Sheila was never allowed to forget that she was the " devils " child,poor woman.
There is no evidence that June kept calling her the devil. She is HARDLY one of the only adults pestered by her mother about partying with drugs, sex etc. Mothers pester kids plenty as adults for not doing things the way the mother wants and expects them to act from how they were raised. I didn't raise you to...
Sheila was not in some unique situation.
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There is no evidence that June kept calling her the devil. She is HARDLY one of the only adults pestered by her mother about partying with drugs, sex etc. Mothers pester kids plenty as adults for not doing things the way the mother wants and expects them to act from how they were raised. I didn't raise you to...
Sheila was not in some unique situation.
Sheila was a nervous wreck around her mother,unable to let go of her angst because it would further frighten the twins,so she waited until the fateful night when the boys were asleep in bed and finally let rip.
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Bamber is now just having fun.
He knows he's not getting out but likes the attention and keeping up a high profile for his supporters.
He knows he's guilty and he knows everyone else knows.
Articles about baked cakes, being a mummies boy and being 'mates' with Neville will be common in the future.
There will be the occasional serious article, one of the last ones being the old chestnut about missing documents.
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Sheila was a nervous wreck around her mother,unable to let go of her angst because it would further frighten the twins,so she waited until the fateful night when the boys were asleep in bed and finally let rip.
Where have you read that June kept calling her the devil?
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There is no evidence that June kept calling her the devil. She is HARDLY one of the only adults pestered by her mother about partying with drugs, sex etc. Mothers pester kids plenty as adults for not doing things the way the mother wants and expects them to act from how they were raised. I didn't raise you to...
Sheila was not in some unique situation.
It's not something you can give a "one size fits all" answer to. Unless you're adopted you can't begin to know how it might feel. For a start, many adopted children have no idea of who may be their biological parents. Add to that a deeply religious background with a disapproving God at its' centre. Add to that the sense of duty, obedience, responsibility and gratitude ingrained in some adopted children and you may start to form a picture of just how disturbing it is for an adopted child to be told that its' father is the devil.
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Genene Jones was adopted and the feeling that she was robbed of childhood led her to inject babies in her care with succinylcholine,probably out of jealousy. http://murderpedia.org/female.J/j/jones-genene.htm
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Isn't that horrible ? Their brains are definitely " rewired " differently from the norm or you'd have everyone behaving in the same way.
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There is no evidence that June kept calling her the devil. She is HARDLY one of the only adults pestered by her mother about partying with drugs, sex etc. Mothers pester kids plenty as adults for not doing things the way the mother wants and expects them to act from how they were raised. I didn't raise you to...
Sheila was not in some unique situation.
I agree with you and I think June was just disappointed with Sheilas alleged lack of morals and perhaps thought Colin was not good enough for her.- which is exactly why I find it unusual that Colin wrote about her the way he did. As someone who knew all of them I expected to find out more about Jeremy - but really found out very little.
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I agree with you and I think June was just disappointed with Sheilas alleged lack of morals and perhaps thought Colin was not good enough for her.- which is exactly why I find it unusual that Colin wrote about her the way he did. As someone who knew all of them I expected to find out more about Jeremy - but really found out very little.
Jan I agree I expected to learn so much about Jeremy from Colin's point of view but he really said very little about him more about June and how he felt himself.
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I agree with you and I think June was just disappointed with Sheilas alleged lack of morals and perhaps thought Colin was not good enough for her.- which is exactly why I find it unusual that Colin wrote about her the way he did. As someone who knew all of them I expected to find out more about Jeremy - but really found out very little.
Jan, I imagine Colin was a sensitive person and I think he'd have been very aware that the Bambers didn't see him as a suitable son in law.
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I agree with you and I think June was just disappointed with Sheilas alleged lack of morals and perhaps thought Colin was not good enough for her.- which is exactly why I find it unusual that Colin wrote about her the way he did. As someone who knew all of them I expected to find out more about Jeremy - but really found out very little.
I'm nearly 40 and my mother still hounds me about things. I just let her vent then do what I want anyway because I am an adult and it is my life and my decisions...I don't ask for her opinion she just gives it.
Equally annoying or moreso is that she asks us for our opinions then totally disregards them and does the complete opposite anyway. When she asks for my opinion I tell her you will not listen anyway so just do what you want. She will hound me, I will give my opinion then she will do the opposite. Most recently she was planning to change the style of poles on the porch of the house. She showed the style she liked and I said I hated it, it looked country-like. She picked it anyway- which I knew would happen. To make matters worse my wife likes it and wants ours changed to the same style. So it even spills over...
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Jan, I imagine Colin was a sensitive person and I think he'd have been very aware that the Bambers didn't see him as a suitable son in law.
June didn't like Colin and neither did she like Julie .
Sheila had wanted to marry at the church her mother went to but June wouldn't have it because Sheila was pregnant. I'm not even sure that the relatives attended. ( I bet that event was a barrel of laughs )
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Jan, I imagine Colin was a sensitive person and I think he'd have been very aware that the Bambers didn't see him as a suitable son in law.
Both Colin and Jeremy were outsiders in a sense,and both had a foothold in the enigma which was Nevill and June's relationship,though Jeremy determined to break the bond and usurp,whereas Colin seemed to be one step further removed, to know his place and resigned to a position of weakness.
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June didn't like Colin and neither did she like Julie .
Sheila had wanted to marry at the church her mother went to but June wouldn't have it because Sheila was pregnant. I'm not even sure that the relatives attended. ( I bet that event was a barrel of laughs )
The ceremony was at Chelmsford Register Office and just the immediate families attended, however, there was a large reception -at an hotel?- which all the rellies were invited to.
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The ceremony was at Chelmsford Register Office and just the immediate families attended, however, there was a large reception -at an hotel?- which all the rellies were invited to.
I see. I wonder if the dress was bought in anticipation of a church wedding.
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June didn't like Colin and neither did she like Julie .
Sheila had wanted to marry at the church her mother went to but June wouldn't have it because Sheila was pregnant. I'm not even sure that the relatives attended. ( I bet that event was a barrel of laughs )
If she didn't like Julie then when Jeremy told her he was engaged to Julie June would have objected. She was happy.
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If she didn't like Julie then when Jeremy told her he was engaged to Julie June would have objected. She was happy.
None of this is corroborated by anyone and I would take such stories with a pinch of salt.
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None of this is corroborated by anyone and I would take such stories with a pinch of salt.
She didn't tell Pam she hated Julie. She didn't tell Pam she was opposed to Jeremy marrying Julie after learning of the engagement. No one else has come forward saying she told such to them either. Thus there is nothing to contradict Jeremy's claim that June was happy about the engagement.
The people saying June hated Julie are the ones making assumptions without any evidence.
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I'm nearly 40 and my mother still hounds me about things. I just let her vent then do what I want anyway because I am an adult and it is my life and my decisions...I don't ask for her opinion she just gives it.
Equally annoying or moreso is that she asks us for our opinions then totally disregards them and does the complete opposite anyway. When she asks for my opinion I tell her you will not listen anyway so just do what you want. She will hound me, I will give my opinion then she will do the opposite. Most recently she was planning to change the style of poles on the porch of the house. She showed the style she liked and I said I hated it, it looked country-like. She picked it anyway- which I knew would happen. To make matters worse my wife likes it and wants ours changed to the same style. So it even spills over...
Are you henpecked ? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Now I see. You don't get your own way at home,so you come here to try us out. ;D ;D ;D
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She didn't tell Pam she hated Julie. She didn't tell Pam she was opposed to Jeremy marrying Julie after learning of the engagement. No one else has come forward saying she told such to them either. Thus there is nothing to contradict Jeremy's claim that June was happy about the engagement.
The people saying June hated Julie are the ones making assumptions without any evidence.
From what I recall the point was that the idea of Jeremy and Julie getting married came from June or Nevill and this put Jeremy off the idea of acquiescing to their wishes. But isn't all this hearsay anyway? When Brett proposed a toast to the happy couple in August after the murders Jeremy made it plain that marriage was not on the agenda.
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Only because June was against them being together,alone and immoral at Goldhanger,would the question of marriage ever arise--------------so the neighbours wouldn't talk.
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From what I recall the point was that the idea of Jeremy and Julie getting married came from June or Nevill and this put Jeremy off the idea of acquiescing to their wishes. But isn't all this hearsay anyway? When Brett proposed a toast to the happy couple in August after the murders Jeremy made it plain that marriage was not on the agenda.
The engagement was broken off well before the murders. June and Nevill were happy about the engagement and began taking over the planning as if it was their idea. Because of his mental issues he decided to spite them by breaking it off. Out of spite he enjoyed doing things that pissed them off.
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The engagement was broken off well before the murders. June and Nevill were happy about the engagement and began taking over the planning as if it was their idea. Because of his mental issues he decided to spite them by breaking it off. Out of spite he enjoyed doing things that pissed them off.
I don't know where you've dredged this up from..
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The article is littered with inaccuracies but this apology may be a halfway house to finally admitting his culpability.
Steve if he is guilty he is not going to admit it. He has nothing to gain from admitting guilt. Unless he is offered something huge in exchange for a detailed confession.
after 30 years and relentless attempts to clear his name he is not going to throw that all away with one sentence. I can image in 30 years time when Jeremy is nearly dead he will arrange his tombstone to say
Here lies Jeremy Neville Bamber
1961-1986 + 20,000 days of wrongful imprisonment.
“The evidence indicates that Sheila was responsible”
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I don't know where you've dredged this up from..
Steve, I have to confess this is totally new to me. My understanding is that he asked her to marry him. She said yes. It was going to be by special licence in a register office after Christmas. All decided. He went to tell his parents about their engagement and whatever they said, he came back and broke it off. Shortest engagement in history, by the sound of it.
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Steve if he is guilty he is not going to admit it. He has nothing to gain from admitting guilt. Unless he is offered something huge in exchange for a detailed confession.
after 30 years and relentless attempts to clear his name he is not going to throw that all away with one sentence. I can image in 30 years time when Jeremy is nearly dead he will arrange his tombstone to say
Here lies Jeremy Neville Bamber
1961-1986 + 20,000 days of wrongful imprisonment.
“The evidence indicates that Sheila was responsible”
He could apologize to Colin and salve his conscience,but if he is a psychopath I suppose he hasn't got one.
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He could apologize to Colin and salve his conscience,but if he is a psychopath I suppose he hasn't got one.
I could not think of a more awkward situation,
how could Colin possibility accept an apology?
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I could not think of a more awkward situation,
how could Colin possibility accept an apology?
Colin refers to some rather nasty letters sent by Jeremy from prison in the early days of his incarceration in response to some queries which Colin held as to the murders. Jeremy replied that he didn't have all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle,or words to that effect. In further letters he accused Colin of profiting from the twins' deaths through the writing of the book. I'm afraid I find Jeremy's behaviour on all accounts regarding Colin despicable.
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Colin refers to some rather nasty letters sent by Jeremy from prison in the early days of his incarceration in response to some queries which Colin held as to the murders. Jeremy replied that he didn't have all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle,or words to that effect. In further letters he accused Colin of profiting from the twins' deaths through the writing of the book. I'm afraid I find Jeremy's behaviour on all accounts regarding Colin despicable.
I agree if he is guilty but if innocent he must have been horrendously angry himself.
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Steve, I have to confess this is totally new to me. My understanding is that he asked her to marry him. She said yes. It was going to be by special licence in a register office after Christmas. All decided. He went to tell his parents about their engagement and whatever they said, he came back and broke it off. Shortest engagement in history, by the sound of it.
Your account is nearer Scipio's. I took it that he left Julie dangling and maybe she thought that with his parents out of the way he would come round to marrying her,or is that rather cynical of me to think suchlike?
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Your account is nearer Scipio's. I took it that he left Julie dangling and maybe she thought that with his parents out of the way he would come round to marrying her,or is that rather cynical of me to think suchlike?
When he broke the engagement off he told Julie he was breaking it off to spite his parents. After they died she could indeed have thought he would at some point resume the engagement since they were no longer around to spite. That could be one of the reasons she protected him- she anticipated him resuming their engagement and the failure to do so removed a reason she would have had for protecting him. If he had resumed their engagement would she have broken up with him and ended up ratting him out? No one knows the answer but it is certainly possible she would not have. I personally don't think she would have.
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When he broke the engagement off he told Julie he was breaking it off to spite his parents. After they died she could indeed have thought he would at some point resume the engagement since they were no longer around to spite. That could be one of the reasons she protected him- she anticipated him resuming their engagement and the failure to do so removed a reason she would have had for protecting him. If he had resumed their engagement would she have broken up with him and ended up ratting him out? No one knows the answer but it is certainly possible she would not have. I personally don't think she would have.
The problem here of course is that it puts Julie in a poor light if she is hedging her bets as to the murder of Nevill and June,whom it appears from her witness statement she did very little to endorse,in contradistinction to the twins and Sheila. There's also Jeremy statement that his relationship with Julie had been shaky for some time and though there's not necessarily any contradiction here it does seem as if Jeremy was more serious about the murders than maybe Julie let on to others post event.
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The problem here of course is that it puts Julie in a poor light if she is hedging her bets as to the murder of Nevill and June,whom it appears from her witness statement she did very little to endorse,in contradistinction to the twins and Sheila. There's also Jeremy statement that his relationship with Julie had been shaky for some time and though there's not necessarily any contradiction here it does seem as if Jeremy was more serious about the murders than maybe Julie let on to others post event.
Problem for who?
Any of the following is possible:
1) Julie thought Jeremy was going to kill them and figured after he did so then he would marry her so she failed to discourage him.
2) Julie didn't expect Jeremy would really kill them but after he did so she expected he would marry her and thus stayed with him for a while but after a few weeks went by it was clear he wasn't going to renew their engagement the guilt was too much so she decided to cut bait
3) Julie didn't expect Jeremy would really kill them but after he did so she stuck by him because she loved him but after a few weeks went by she felt guilty and he was acting like a jerk to Colin and others and she couldn't take it anymore so she decided to cut bait.
4) Julie thought Jeremy was going to kill them and figured after he did so then he would marry her so she encouraged him to do it.
The only problem is 4 and that is a problem for Julie because it makes her a co-conspirator. It's only a problem though if Jeremy confesses and rats her out. So if 4 were true she actually would have a motive in keeping him from getting blamed so he didn't say anything against her.
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Perhaps there is only a fine line between passive encouragement and inactive discouragement.
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I don't know where you've dredged this up from..
Bottom of the barrel presumably, Steve.
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The engagement was broken off well before the murders. June and Nevill were happy about the engagement and began taking over the planning as if it was their idea. Because of his mental issues he decided to spite them by breaking it off. Out of spite he enjoyed doing things that pissed them off.
source ? As June and Neville cant confirm the above where did it come from ?
And can you show a medical diagnosis for his "mental" problems ?
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There wasn't even an engagement to break off.
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There wasn't even an engagement to break off.
There was never any rings exchanged as far as I am aware?
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There wasn't even an engagement to break off.
Julie seemed to have thought there was when she agreed to marry him.
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There wasn't even an engagement to break off.
Jeremy asked Julie to marry him and she accepted, that means they were engaged. He told his parents they were engaged. His parents were happy. He subsequently broke it off out of spite saying they acted like it was their idea. He didn't like doing things that made his parents happy he had mental issues.
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Jeremy asked Julie to marry him and she accepted, that means they were engaged. He told his parents they were engaged. His parents were happy. He subsequently broke it off out of spite saying they acted like it was their idea. He didn't like doing things that made his parents happy he had mental issues.
It doesn't/didn't mean that they were engaged at all.Where are all the witnesses ? He'd said he wasn't ready for marriage anyway.
As for the " mental issues " bit.I've yet to read about those.
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It doesn't/didn't mean that they were engaged at all.Where are all the witnesses ? He'd said he wasn't ready for marriage anyway.
As for the " mental issues " bit.I've yet to read about those.
Lookout, the issuing of a proposal and its acceptance constitutes an engagement. The ring is only a token. I know of engagements where there was a necklace given as a token. I know of others where it was decided to put the money to other use.
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Lookout, the issuing of a proposal and its acceptance constitutes an engagement. The ring is only a token. I know of engagements where there was a necklace given as a token. I know of others where it was decided to put the money to other use.
All I'm asking for are witnesses to this event.
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All I'm asking for are witnesses to this event.
To the best of my memory, this took place during the Christmas holiday. Very few proposals are made publicly -indeed, why should they be?- and it's not impossible that they were in bed. Witnesses are unlikely.
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All I'm asking for are witnesses to this event.
Julie told the police about the engagement and Jeremy admitted to it though naturally he didn't admit to telling Julie he was breaking off the engagement because he wanted to spite his parents because admitting he was out to spite them would not look very good...
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Julie told the police about the engagement and Jeremy admitted to it though naturally he didn't admit to telling Julie he was breaking off the engagement because he wanted to spite his parents because admitting he was out to spite them would not look very good...
I thought, after he'd broken the news to his parents, he came back and said he'd changed his mind because his parents had approved. Whether this meant they approved his choice of bride, his decision OR made noises about it being high time he stopped living in sin isn't clear. What is clear is that it was the closest Julie came to getting his ring on her finger.
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Jeremy asked Julie to marry him and she accepted, that means they were engaged. He told his parents they were engaged. His parents were happy. He subsequently broke it off out of spite saying they acted like it was their idea. He didn't like doing things that made his parents happy he had mental issues.
I think that means 90% of teenagers have mental issues then (:
this is a surprising illogical posting from you ? Are you defrosting?
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I thought, after he'd broken the news to his parents, he came back and said he'd changed his mind because his parents had approved. Whether this meant they approved his choice of bride, his decision OR made noises about it being high time he stopped living in sin isn't clear. What is clear is that it was the closest Julie came to getting his ring on her finger.
If they hated Julie as alleged then they would not have approved of the marriage. A mother who hates the intended spouse- for whatever the reason- is going to voice objection not pleasure.
Saying they approved so he was postponing things certainly sounds to me like it was being represented as an effort to spite them.
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I think that means 90% of teenagers have mental issues then (:
this is a surprising illogical posting from you ? Are you defrosting?
Children who buck their parents just to rebel are extremely immature and do have mental issues. To still act that way as an adult demonstrates even more mental issues. Ann Eaton among others described things Jeremy would do out of spite including refusing to dress up when going to places with Nevill where looking sophisticated would have pleased Nevill. Jeremy clearly was an immature idiot with grievances against his parents- he didn't steal from them because he loved them so much. This obviously demonstrated the absence of the usual emotional connection that would inhibit killing your parents for money.
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If they hated Julie as alleged then they would not have approved of the marriage. A mother who hates the intended spouse- for whatever the reason- is going to voice objection not pleasure.
Saying they approved so he was postponing things certainly sounds to me like it was being represented as an effort to spite them.
I think it was said that June just did not want them to "live in sin" perhaps she would have been happier if was all official.
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If they hated Julie as alleged then they would not have approved of the marriage. A mother who hates the intended spouse- for whatever the reason- is going to voice objection not pleasure.
Saying they approved so he was postponing things certainly sounds to me like it was being represented as an effort to spite them.
You're making assumptions. I said we have no way of knowing WHAT was said in that conversation. It's highly unlikely, but not impossible that they said that if he married Julie they disinherit him. It's also possible that he thought that marrying Julie would wind them up and when they showed approval, he went off the idea. They could have approved the marriage on moral grounds without approving his choice of bride. There are numerous permutations here.....................we will never know.
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Children who buck their parents just to rebel are extremely immature and do have mental issues. To still act that way as an adult demonstrates even more mental issues. Ann Eaton among others described things Jeremy would do out of spite including refusing to dress up when going to places with Nevill where looking sophisticated would have pleased Nevill. Jeremy clearly was an immature idiot with grievances against his parents- he didn't steal from them because he loved them so much. This obviously demonstrated the absence of the usual emotional connection that would inhibit killing your parents for money.
I thought Anne had memory problems ? And it is surprising that if Jeremy had mental problems his father made complimentary comments about his farming and allowed him to have shares in the caravan business. Plus many would describe teenagers rebelling as part of growing up and establishing their own personalities. I don't doubt he may have been a tad arrogant - but mental problems established by him having the odd argument with his parents? Sorry I don't agree. The murders yes - but using that behaviour ? Sorry I disagree.
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I think it was said that June just did not want them to "live in sin" perhaps she would have been happier if was all official.
If you don't like the intended spouse you voice opposition. They were not even living together at the time anyway.
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June had a bee in her bonnet about them living together at Goldhanger bringing shame on the family. There's every likelihood that June had mentioned being married before living together and because of that Jeremy would have felt as though he was being pushed into something that he felt he wasn't ready for and this could quite possibly have been a reason that the relationship was fizzling out.
What man of 24 would want to take that order from their mother ? Maybe Jeremy had been too ashamed to tell JM of his mother's wishes ? Whereas,you'd have JM tugging at one end and the voice of his mother in his ear talking about immorality.
Talk about being between the devil and the deep blue sea. ::)
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I thought Anne had memory problems ? And it is surprising that if Jeremy had mental problems his father made complimentary comments about his farming and allowed him to have shares in the caravan business. Plus many would describe teenagers rebelling as part of growing up and establishing their own personalities. I don't doubt he may have been a tad arrogant - but mental problems established by him having the odd argument with his parents? Sorry I don't agree. The murders yes - but using that behaviour ? Sorry I disagree.
She had memory problems related to some details of the investigation. Trying to say she would not be able to remember things about the family doesn't work.
You so desperately want to believe Jeremy is innocent you ignore all evidence of the problems he had with his parents. I don't suffer from such blinders. It is obvious he had problems with them and that such problems overrode the natural order of things where a child would not kill their parents for money.
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June had a bee in her bonnet about them living together at Goldhanger bringing shame on the family. There's every likelihood that June had mentioned being married before living together and because of that Jeremy would have felt as though he was being pushed into something that he felt he wasn't ready for and this could quite possibly have been a reason that the relationship was fizzling out.
What man of 24 would want to take that order from their mother ? Maybe Jeremy had been too ashamed to tell JM of his mother's wishes ? Whereas,you'd have JM tugging at one end and the voice of his mother in his ear talking about immorality.
Talk about being between the devil and the deep blue sea. ::)
Not liking them live together at Goldhanger unmarried doesn't mean she hated Julie. It means she didn't want him living with someone unmarried. They were not living together at the time of the engagement, she already had stopped living with him at that point.
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If you don't like the intended spouse you voice opposition. They were not even living together at the time anyway.
I guess here you're saying that YOU would voice opposition. They are many who would go no further than offering their best wishes and congratulations It isn't strictly any parent's business who their offspring marry. The parental choice of spouse probably isn't the one their offspring would choose.
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Not liking them live together at Goldhanger unmarried doesn't mean she hated Julie. It means she didn't want him living with someone unmarried. They were not living together at the time of the engagement, she already had stopped living with him at that point.
No,June didn't hate Julie-----------she just called her a harlot in front of Jeremy and I don't know who else.
Isn't this like a lot of mothers whose sons introduce their girlfriends where it's noticed immediately that they're not good enough for their sons ? June must have seen through her and was a good judge of character-------------which was proved.
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If you don't like the intended spouse you voice opposition. They were not even living together at the time anyway.
If you don't like an intended spouse you should keep quiet and mind your beeswax, it's nothing to do with anyone who someone chooses to marry or live with imo but back in the early/mid 80s I can understand why June and Nevill struggled with Jeremy and Julie living openly together. It was not accepted, certainly in a rural farming community such as Goldhangar.
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If you don't like an intended spouse you should keep quiet and mind your beeswax, it's nothing to do with anyone who someone chooses to marry or live with imo but back in the early/mid 80s I can understand why June and Nevill struggled with Jeremy and Julie living openly together. It was not accepted, certainly in a rural farming community such as Goldhangar.
Maggie, I couldn't agree more. The biggest mistakes I've ever made involved me doing those thing my parents had wanted me to do. As a result I learned that it's a damn sight easier to sort out one's OWN mistakes than the mistakes inflicted on one by trying to please others.
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I guess here you're saying that YOU would voice opposition. They are many who would go no further than offering their best wishes and congratulations It isn't strictly any parent's business who their offspring marry. The parental choice of spouse probably isn't the one their offspring would choose.
No I am saying that mothers who don't like a spouse (and some fathers) will voice opposition. ESPECIALLY a mother that everyone asserts was so outspoken and involved in what her kids were doing that she would tell them not to live in sin etc. A meddling mother is not going to be happy when one wants to marry someone they hate.
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Maggie, I couldn't agree more. The biggest mistakes I've ever made involved me doing those thing my parents had wanted me to do. As a result I learned that it's a damn sight easier to sort out one's OWN mistakes than the mistakes inflicted on one by trying to please others.
We all have to learn by our mistakes in our own way and when did anyone ever listen to me anyway :'( :'( ;D ;D ;D
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One daughter ignored my advice and sadly things went t1ts up. Her ex should have married his mother !
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One daughter ignored my advice and sadly things went t1ts up. Her ex should have married his mother !
Could tell you a few tales Lookout but such is life. :'( :'( :'(
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No I am saying that mothers who don't like a spouse (and some fathers) will voice opposition. ESPECIALLY a mother that everyone asserts was so outspoken and involved in what her kids were doing that she would tell them not to live in sin etc. A meddling mother is not going to be happy when one wants to marry someone they hate.
My own experience is that MOST potential in-laws try their hardest to get on with their offspring's choice of spouse. Being an in-law is hard enough without rocking the boat before the marriage gets off the ground.
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Could tell you a few tales Lookout but such is life. :'( :'( :'(
On the flip side there are happy marriages that parents opposed. It is one thing to be opposed to jerks and ex-cons, people with 15 kids from previous marriages etc but some will never be pleased by anyone (no one is good enough for my kid syndrome) and if they were listened to then the kids would never marry anyone.
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She had memory problems related to some details of the investigation. Trying to say she would not be able to remember things about the family doesn't work.
You so desperately want to believe Jeremy is innocent you ignore all evidence of the problems he had with his parents. I don't suffer from such blinders. It is obvious he had problems with them and that such problems overrode the natural order of things where a child would not kill their parents for money.
No you have me all wrong - sorry your assumptions about me and desperately wanting Jeremy to be innocent are way off the mark. You are not such a good judge of character as you think.
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Could tell you a few tales Lookout but such is life. :'( :'( :'(
Ditto Maggie. :'(