Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Jane on April 04, 2015, 06:36:PM
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Let's put aside, for a moment, whether or not we believe that Jeremy received a call from his father. We KNOW he called West and we KNOW West called Bonnet. There appears to have been a very minor, but totally understandable discrepancy regarding Sheila's status.
Sadly, this minor discrepancy has been used to suggest that ANOTHER call was made to the police, not by JEREMY Bamber but by NEVILLE Bamber, but it was decided -at PC level!!!!!- to keep this call from Jeremy against the time that they MIGHT wish to frame him for the murders.
Perhaps then, it was West and Bonnet who gave permission for a training exercise to be carried out at the scene. Perhaps it was they who gave permission to attend to Special Branch, Drug Squad, IRA, KGB, the policeman's chorus from Pirates of Penzance and Uncle Tom Cobbley et al. It was of no moment that in their enthusiasm for their work we are told they wounded a (living?) body, lost a (living?) body, moved (living AND deceased) bodies, killed a (living?) body, took any number of pictures of (deceased AND living) bodies in indescribable poses, waved banners from the roof and peed on the property, generally having themselves a ball because, at the end of the day, a PC and civilian worker had decided between them to withhold the one piece of evidence which would have cleared Jeremy's name!!!!.
If ANYONE can provide me with a concise, logical and believable answer to the simple question "WHY?" I'm all ears. Until then, NONE of the above makes an iota of sense.
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Let's put aside, for a moment, whether or not we believe that Jeremy received a call from his father. We KNOW he called West and we KNOW West called Bonnet. There appears to have been a very minor, but totally understandable discrepancy regarding Sheila's status.
Sadly, this minor discrepancy has been used to suggest that ANOTHER call was made to the police, not by JEREMY Bamber but by NEVILLE Bamber, but it was decided -at PC level!!!!!- to keep this call from Jeremy against the time that they MIGHT wish to frame him for the murders.
Perhaps then, it was West and Bonnet who gave permission for a training exercise to be carried out at the scene. Perhaps it was they who gave permission to attend to Special Branch, Drug Squad, IRA, KGB, the policeman's chorus from Pirates of Penzance and Uncle Tom Cobbley et al. It was of no moment that in their enthusiasm for their work we are told they wounded a (living?) body, lost a (living?) body, moved (living AND deceased) bodies, killed a (living?) body, took any number of pictures of (deceased AND living) bodies in indescribable poses, waved banners from the roof and peed on the property, generally having themselves a ball because, at the end of the day, a PC and civilian worker had decided between them to withhold the one piece of evidence which would have cleared Jeremy's name!!!!.
If ANYONE can provide me with a concise, logical and believable answer to the simple question "WHY?" I'm all ears. Until then, NONE of the above makes an iota of sense.
Good luck with this April - I somehow sense the replies will be bias.. ;D
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Let's put aside, for a moment, whether or not we believe that Jeremy received a call from his father. We KNOW he called West and we KNOW West called Bonnet. There appears to have been a very minor, but totally understandable discrepancy regarding Sheila's status.
Sadly, this minor discrepancy has been used to suggest that ANOTHER call was made to the police, not by JEREMY Bamber but by NEVILLE Bamber, but it was decided -at PC level!!!!!- to keep this call from Jeremy against the time that they MIGHT wish to frame him for the murders.
Perhaps then, it was West and Bonnet who gave permission for a training exercise to be carried out at the scene. Perhaps it was they who gave permission to attend to Special Branch, Drug Squad, IRA, KGB, the policeman's chorus from Pirates of Penzance and Uncle Tom Cobbley et al. It was of no moment that in their enthusiasm for their work we are told they wounded a (living?) body, lost a (living?) body, moved (living AND deceased) bodies, killed a (living?) body, took any number of pictures of (deceased AND living) bodies in indescribable poses, waved banners from the roof and peed on the property, generally having themselves a ball because, at the end of the day, a PC and civilian worker had decided between them to withhold the one piece of evidence which would have cleared Jeremy's name!!!!.
If ANYONE can provide me with a concise, logical and believable answer to the simple question "WHY?" I'm all ears. Until then, NONE of the above makes an iota of sense.
They didn't even have the authority to organise a tea run! The question of 'why' (and it's been asked a lot) has never been answered.
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We know there was no call from Neville to the police. It was not discussed at trial, or included in any of the appeals. It is on the OS as properganda.
West & Bonnet giving authorisation for training exercises ? Thought they just took the phone calls. Taff Jones may have, which was a mistake and perhaps a reason he didn't want the case being looked into again.
I have seen no evidence about strange banners. Inappropriate pictures at WHF and officers urinating outside.
The police keeping the call secret from day one ? In case they want to frame an innocent man later ? Is no one safe from those horrible men at EP.
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Good luck with this April - I somehow sense the replies will be bias.. ;D
Ever the optimist me, Steph..................but thanks
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Ever the optimist me, Steph..................but thanks
;D
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Taff Jones may have given the authorisation for both the disposal of items and training exercises.
When people started asking him to change direction, he knew these issues would come back to haunt him. As well as being outed as the man in charge who was wrong about the murder/suicide theory.
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Similar to Jeremy and supporters, Taff may have been in self denial. Partly to cover his own back.
After Julie approached the police, Taff interviewed Jeremy for a few minutes. Jeremy denied everything. 'Julie must be lying', Taff said !
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"WHY?" I'm all ears.
Pc West dealt with the call. That doesn't include recounting some previous call.
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Pc West dealt with the call. That doesn't include recounting some previous call.
There was no previous call, there is no evidence of a previous call, a previous call lives only in the imagination of those who are desperate for Bamber to be innocent. Post the evidence of previous call for us all to see?
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Pc West dealt with the call. That doesn't include recounting some previous call.
Reader I believe, from your previous posts/years on the forum, that you are too intelligent to actually believe this. Why have you damaged your credibility so much by trying to create a fake phone call?
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The supposed training exercise has a genesis in the claim that a team of 8 rookies gave their fingerprints for elimination. This claim was then expanded to claim the only way they would have been asked to give their prints is if they had been in the house which is false. They took elimination samples from anyone outside the scene who never entered the main house and even people who simply handled evidence in some manner afterwards. This was then expanded to claiming they were inside while the bodies were still in there. Then it was expanded to claiming they trained on removing the gun from Sheila's body. Then it was expanded again claiming they were conducting training using their own weapons while the victims were inside.
So at the end of the day there was simply documents saying people gave elimination samples nothing more the rest was all made up from nothing.
Those conducting the crime scene investigation say the house was secured and everyone apart from those handling the crime scene investigation were kept out. The fact 57 officers were asked to give elimination prints doesn't prove those 57 were ever in the main house at WHF let alone that they were in the main house while the victims were inside or that a training exercise was held.
It is part of the same pattern of Jeremy and his supporters taking limited information and making giant leaps.
The only relation between the training exercise claims and the claim that Nevill phoned 999 after calling Jeremy is that both involve taking giant leaps beyond all rationality.
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The supposed training exercise has a genesis in the claim that a team of 8 rookies gave their fingerprints for elimination. This claim was then expanded to claim the only way they would have been asked to give their prints is if they had been in the house which is false. They took elimination samples from anyone outside the scene who never entered the main house and even people who simply handled evidence in some manner afterwards. This was then expanded to claiming they were inside while the bodies were still in there. Then it was expanded to claiming they trained on removing the gun from Sheila's body. Then it was expanded again claiming they were conducting training using their own weapons while the victims were inside.
So at the end of the day there was simply documents saying people gave elimination samples nothing more the rest was all made up from nothing.
Those conducting the crime scene investigation say the house was secured and everyone apart from those handling the crime scene investigation were kept out. The fact 57 officers were asked to give elimination prints doesn't prove those 57 were ever in the main house at WHF let alone that they were in the main house while the victims were inside or that a training exercise was held.
It is part of the same pattern of Jeremy and his supporters taking limited information and making giant leaps.
The only relation between the training exercise claims and the claim that Nevill phoned 999 after calling Jeremy is that both involve taking giant leaps beyond all rationality.
In fairness to Jeremy supporters, shall we say that they were probably never DIScouraged from the belief that 57 officers tramped all over the crime scene, in the same way that we were encouraged to believe the Monastery debacle.
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In fairness to Jeremy supporters, shall we say that they were probably never DIScouraged from the belief that 57 officers tramped all over the crime scene, in the same way that we were encouraged to believe the Monastery debacle.
I think in the early days in prison Jeremy looked as if he were poring over documents night and day..I'm thinking of the photograph where we see him emerging from a vehicle,squinting in the sun after possibly stuck in a dimly lit cell,yet years later it looks as if he's far more half-hearted,despite his braggadocio in front of the British media and resigned just to make the best of things. Of course what is really going on inside his mind none of us really know,and I don't think any one individual ever really did know..
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I think in the early days in prison Jeremy looked as if he were poring over documents night and day..I'm thinking of the photograph where we see him emerging from a vehicle,squinting in the sun after possibly stuck in a dimly lit cell,yet years later it looks as if he's far more half-hearted,despite his braggadocio in front of the British media and resigned just to make the best of things. Of course what is really going on inside his mind none of us really know,and I don't think any one individual ever really did know..
Do you think as he said he has given up - his words I think were "I know I am innocent I just cant prove it?"
Or do you think he is keeping quiet because he must do his next submission through the correct channels - which is not a public forum?
I cant see personally if EP had anything incriminating they would be so stupid as to release it even if the PII files were released - things would have been destroyed long ago.
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Do you think as he said he has given up - his words I think were "I know I am innocent I just cant prove it?"
Or do you think he is keeping quiet because he must do his next submission through the correct channels - which is not a public forum?
I cant see personally if EP had anything incriminating they would be so stupid as to release it even if the PII files were released - things would have been destroyed long ago.
Trying to read him is difficult but I see an individual who thinks he's been outsmarted and doesn't know how to react,which is nothing new as he never really did know how to react to external stimuli. April made a post a day or two ago about his stunted emotional growth and lookout replied if anyone recalls them?
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Trying to read him is difficult but I see an individual who thinks he's been outsmarted and doesn't know how to react,which is nothing new as he never really did know how to react to external stimuli. April made a post a day or two ago about his stunted emotional growth and lookout replied if anyone recalls them?
I agree - it is difficult to read him from the wildly varying reports from reporters to ex-inmates and I am sure his time in the high security environment must have formed at least part of his current personality.
his life would have been so much easier if he had admitted guilt. It would have I am sure made his prison life more tolerable as although he rightly would never have been freed he would at least have been offered some alternative programmes within the confines of his in-caseration.
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I think in the early days in prison Jeremy looked as if he were poring over documents night and day..I'm thinking of the photograph where we see him emerging from a vehicle,squinting in the sun after possibly stuck in a dimly lit cell,yet years later it looks as if he's far more half-hearted,despite his braggadocio in front of the British media and resigned just to make the best of things. Of course what is really going on inside his mind none of us really know,and I don't think any one individual ever really did know..
He pours over documents looking for anything he can try to spin in his favor. That is what any junior lawyer assigned to a document review for appeal purposes would do. The only difference is junior lawyers also flag anything that harms their case not just things to spin to help it so that you can try to anticipate what the other side will use against you and try to find a way to deal with it.
On appeal there is a tougher burden because you have to raise new evidence you can't just take existing evidence and put a new spin on it. Furthermore you need solid evidence just making an allegation won't do.
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I agree - it is difficult to read him from the wildly varying reports from reporters to ex-inmates and I am sure his time in the high security environment must have formed at least part of his current personality.
his life would have been so much easier if he had admitted guilt. It would have I am sure made his prison life more tolerable as although he rightly would never have been freed he would at least have been offered some alternative programmes within the confines of his in-caseration.
I don't know whether being a confessed child killer would have made his day to day life easier,given that he has already survived one vicious attack. Going down the religious avenue he has closed off after his perception of what it did to Sheila and June. Where do you start when you go back to the beginning? My initial thoughts were that Nevill and June adopted a daughter and not a son,so in those early days it wasn't necessarily the future of the farm which was foremost in their minds.
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I agree - it is difficult to read him from the wildly varying reports from reporters to ex-inmates and I am sure his time in the high security environment must have formed at least part of his current personality.
his life would have been so much easier if he had admitted guilt. It would have I am sure made his prison life more tolerable as although he rightly would never have been freed he would at least have been offered some alternative programmes within the confines of his in-caseration.
I am not condoning his behavior but trying to scheme his way out keeps him mind from turning into a vegetable. Yes there are other things one can try doing to keep your mind from turning to mush but he has chosen to use his to try to get out and many prisoners do that it is not at all uncommon.
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He pours over documents looking for anything he can try to spin in his favor. That is what any junior lawyer assigned to a document review for appeal purposes would do. The only difference is junior lawyers also flag anything that harms their case not just things to spin to help it so that you can try to anticipate what the other side will use against you and try to find a way to deal with it.
On appeal there is a tougher burden because you have to raise new evidence you can't just take existing evidence and put a new spin on it. Furthermore you need solid evidence just making an allegation won't do.
But that is exactly what you would do if you were an innocent man as well - so it proves nothing . And the next submission does include new "evidence"
Otherwise it will of course fail at the first hurdle.
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But that is exactly what you would do if you were an innocent man as well - so it proves nothing . And the next submission does include new "evidence"
Otherwise it will of course fail at the first hurdle.
Who said that is the proof of his guilt? He was established guilty by solid evidence. The crap he has put forward in some instances helps to undermine his claims of innocence because it is obvious he is resorting to any nonsense he can think up like the issue of Nevill calling police.
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Who said that is the proof of his guilt? He was established guilty by solid evidence. The crap he has put forward in some instances helps to undermine his claims of innocence because it is obvious he is resorting to any nonsense he can think up like the issue of Nevill calling police.
Yeah, although things like the phone call don't make him guilty they do show his true colours and in some instances the true colours of certain supporters/campaign members.
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I don't know whether being a confessed child killer would have made his day to day life easier,given that he has already survived one vicious attack. Going down the religious avenue he has closed off after his perception of what it did to Sheila and June. Where do you start when you go back to the beginning? My initial thoughts were that Nevill and June adopted a daughter and not a son,so in those early days it wasn't necessarily the future of the farm which was foremost in their minds.
Personally I don't think the type of people who would attack a child killer in hospital would take any notice of his pleas of innocence - I am sure they have heard it all before - and everyone accuses him of being a charmer of "women" I don't think the inmates would be "taken in" by his charms.
I agree about the farm thing - NB seemed to be a very forward thinking and successful business man - I am not sure he would have been prejudiced towards the son taking over - it was the 80s and if Sheila had shown any inclination I am sure she would have been included in the family business.
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Who said that is the proof of his guilt? He was established guilty by solid evidence. The crap he has put forward in some instances helps to undermine his claims of innocence because it is obvious he is resorting to any nonsense he can think up like the issue of Nevill calling police.
But it would help if documents pertaining to his case were disclosed promptly and not written after the events they purported to describe.
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But it would help if documents pertaining to his case were disclosed promptly and not written after the events they purported to describe.
I don't think EP did themselves any favours in their pathetic reasons for not releasing the info either.
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Personally I don't think the type of people who would attack a child killer in hospital would take any notice of his pleas of innocence - I am sure they have heard it all before - and everyone accuses him of being a charmer of "women" I don't think the inmates would be "taken in" by his charms.
I agree about the farm thing - NB seemed to be a very forward thinking and successful business man - I am not sure he would have been prejudiced towards the son taking over - it was the 80s and if Sheila had shown any inclination I am sure she would have been included in the family business.
I wonder how much Nevill and June really discussed their children together? They were making preparations for the future in their own way-Nevill sent Jeremy to Gresham's so that he would be apart from his future employees and June's initial thought for Sheila was secretarial college as she had been sent in her day. I don't think either private school did much for them and in the holidays there just seemed to be a void as all four kept to themselves with very little family activities to speak of.
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I wonder how much Nevill and June really discussed their children together? They were making preparations for the future in their own way-Nevill sent Jeremy to Gresham's so that he would be apart from his future employees and June's initial thought for Sheila was secretarial college as she had been sent in her day. I don't think either private school did much for them and in the holidays there just seemed to be a void as all four kept to themselves with very little family activities to speak of.
It may not have been private school per se, Steve but boarding school, as I know from my own, certainly threw up problems for adopted children.
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I wonder how much Nevill and June really discussed their children together? They were making preparations for the future in their own way-Nevill sent Jeremy to Gresham's so that he would be apart from his future employees and June's initial thought for Sheila was secretarial college as she had been sent in her day. I don't think either private school did much for them and in the holidays there just seemed to be a void as all four kept to themselves with very little family activities to speak of.
Probably the person who knew most about that was Junes sister and she seemed to have kept quiet about the whole thing.
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Probably the person who knew most about that was Junes sister and she seemed to have kept quiet about the whole thing.
Pamela was perplexed as the motive behind the killings. I don't wish to criticize her unduly as she did lose a sister. Colin had by far the worst loss to bear. The relatives as far as I can see lost an auntie,though again it's difficult to know exactly how they felt.
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But it would help if documents pertaining to his case were disclosed promptly and not written after the events they purported to describe.
There is no requirement for police to write a memo detailing in minute detail everything they can think of when they get back to a station. Police only write up statements when a statement is needed and only with respect to the issue needed. Prosecutors don't want to have to read through 50 pages of crap to find one issue they needed to know about.