Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on March 02, 2015, 03:08:PM
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Jeremy said the gun was fully loaded.
Sheila had 'gone crazy', so must have fired off the first 10/11 bullets in quick succession. Perhaps with 100% accuracy as only one of all bullets missed.
Anyway, she obviously fired the first 10/11 bullets. Discuss.
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I won't be so bold as to say? Because it may have happened in a way in which none of us have even thought of.
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More pointless threads ::)
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Why are there 2 threads on essentially the same thing?
The first shots were the same no matter who the killer was. If Sheila were the killer she had to be killed last whereas Jeremy could have killed her before the boys potentially. So the only difference would be towards the end not the beginning.
Staunch Jeremy supporters hide from the evidence that the shootings began in the master bedroom because they can't come up with any credible way for the event to have started there and yet for Sheila to be the killer. So supporters are going to just hide from the issue and refuse to discuss it.
Starting polls is not going to get them to respond let alone multiple polls. Polls are worthless anyway unless someone is forced to explain the rationale behind the choice they make.
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Why are there 2 threads on essentially the same thing?
The first shots were the same no matter who the killer was. If Sheila were the killer she had to be killed last whereas Jeremy could have killed her before the boys potentially. So the only difference would be towards the end not the beginning.
Staunch Jeremy supporters hide from the evidence that the shootings began in the master bedroom because they can't come up with any credible way for the event to have started there and yet for Sheila to be the killer. So supporters are going to just hide from the issue and refuse to discuss it.
Starting polls is not going to get them to respond let alone multiple polls. Polls are worthless anyway unless someone is forced to explain the rationale behind the choice they make.
They are importantly different threads. The shooters being different.
There is no guarantee either Sheila or Jeremy started shooting in the main bedroom first. David suggesting Sheila started shooting the twins first. Neville running downstairs to ring Jeremy.
However it is almost certain that Jeremy would use common sense and shoot in the main bedroom first.
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Jeremy's supporters are really keeping their cards close to their chests.
A lot refusing to say what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned Jeremy.
Virtually everyone refusing to say how Sheila could have committed the massacre.
And now no one is saying who Sheila started shooting first.
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They are importantly different threads. The shooters being different.
There is no guarantee either Sheila or Jeremy started shooting in the main bedroom first. David suggesting Sheila started shooting the twins first. Neville running downstairs to ring Jeremy.
However it is almost certain that Jeremy would use common sense and shoot in the main bedroom first.
Evidence establishes 10 shots were fired in the master bedroom at June and Nevill before the gun was empty and after it was empty Nevill and the killer went downstairs to the kitchen. There is no way that the gun could have had 10 bullets in it unless they were the first victims. Nor would June have been in bed had the parents heard prior shooting.
This evidence is note dependent upon who the killer was. It makes no difference who the killer was this is what happened regardless of the identity of the killer.
Having 2 threads that ask who was shot first are redundant because who was shot first is the same regardless. The ONLY difference in the order of killings dependent upon who the killer was is the final victims. June died first then Nevill no matter who the killer was. If Sheila was the killer then the boys would have to die next and her last whereas Jeremy could either kill Sheila 3rd and the boys last or the boys 3rd and 4th and then Sheila last.
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Jeremy's supporters are really keeping their cards close to their chests.
A lot refusing to say what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned Jeremy.
Virtually everyone refusing to say how Sheila could have committed the massacre.
And now no one is saying who Sheila started shooting first.
Adam do you have some sort of memory problems ? I do not think there is one poster on here who has not given some sort of scenario in the past. All of which if you have been paying attention you have seen . I can not think of one reason why you think that any poster should repeat them for you . So your presumption that it is because we have doubts is rubbish . Its because we are tired of your repetitive threads. Nothing more , nothing less.
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Evidence establishes 10 shots were fired in the master bedroom at June and Nevill before the gun was empty and after it was empty Nevill and the killer went downstairs to the kitchen. There is no way that the gun could have had 10 bullets in it unless they were the first victims. Nor would June have been in bed had the parents heard prior shooting.
This evidence is note dependent upon who the killer was. It makes no difference who the killer was this is what happened regardless of the identity of the killer.
Having 2 threads that ask who was shot first are redundant because who was shot first is the same regardless. The ONLY difference in the order of killings dependent upon who the killer was is the final victims. June died first then Nevill no matter who the killer was. If Sheila was the killer then the boys would have to die next and her last whereas Jeremy could either kill Sheila 3rd and the boys last or the boys 3rd and 4th and then Sheila last.
I thought you said that people have slept through gunshots in the next room even with no silencer? Now you say that "Nor would June have been in bed had the parents heard prior shooting". Thus contradicting your other theory. Also if it were true of the grandparents why wouldn't it be true in the case of the grand children?
Suppose Sheila had shot the twins first and then topped up the magazine, have you considered that?
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Adam do you have some sort of memory problems ? I do not think there is one poster on here who has not given some sort of scenario in the past. All of which if you have been paying attention you have seen . I can not think of one reason why you think that any poster should repeat them for you . So your presumption that it is because we have doubts is rubbish . Its because we are tired of your repetitive threads. Nothing more , nothing less.
Nice try.
I have never asked this question before.
No one has ever said who Sheila shot first. Apart from David and Alias. David saying Sheila started shooting the twins first. Neville reacting by running downstairs to phone Jeremy !
Who do you think Sheila shot first ?
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I thought you said that people have slept through gunshots in the next room even with no silencer? Now you say that "Nor would June have been in bed had the parents heard prior shooting". Thus contradicting your other theory. Also if it were true of the grandparents why wouldn't it be true in the case of the grand children?
Suppose Sheila had shot the twins first and then topped up the magazine, have you considered that?
You think Sheila may have shot the twins first. No one waking.
Then went downstairs to reload and started shooting Neville and June upstairs. Neville waking and getting downstairs prior to his brutal beating.
One problem, no phone call.
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You think Sheila may have shot the twins first. No one waking.
Then went downstairs to reload and started shooting Neville and June upstairs. Neville waking and getting downstairs prior to his brutal beating.
One problem, no phone call.
I didn't say that, you did.
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Nice try.
I have never asked this question before.
No one has ever said who Sheila shot first. Apart from David and Alias. David saying Sheila started shooting the twins first. Neville reacting by running downstairs to phone Jeremy !
Who do you think Sheila shot first ?
I don't make any assumptions when there is no way of proving the answer. I told you that I thought she was upstairs and carried out "some " shots to June and the twins before NB ran back up into the bedroom where she shot at him and again as he ran back to the kitchen. However as the police used the kitchen phone before the CS photos we do not know for certain which phone NB used ( the office?) .
So you tell me - how are you going to prove that all the shots were made to all the victims at once ? does not matter if it was SC or JB YOU can not prove that. So as you can not prove that , then you can not assume when the killer re-loaded the gun.
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You think Sheila may have shot the twins first. No one waking.
Then went downstairs to reload and started shooting Neville and June upstairs. Neville waking and getting downstairs prior to his brutal beating.
One problem, no phone call.
there was blood on the worktop next to the phone - so how do you know he had not just had one shot and did not have enough time to tell Jeremy - personally I don't think he had been shot at all at the time of the call , but how do you KNOW? How do you assume the order of his shots?
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There again,Jeremy could easily have said,while on the phone to the police,that he'd heard a couple of shots going off.Why didn't he ?
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I don't make any assumptions when there is no way of proving the answer. I told you that I thought she was upstairs and carried out "some " shots to June and the twins before NB ran back up into the bedroom where she shot at him and again as he ran back to the kitchen. However as the police used the kitchen phone before the CS photos we do not know for certain which phone NB used ( the office?) .
So you tell me - how are you going to prove that all the shots were made to all the victims at once ? does not matter if it was SC or JB YOU can not prove that. So as you can not prove that , then you can not assume when the killer re-loaded the gun.
So Sheila was awake, crazy and holding a rifle.
June and the twins were sleeping.
Neville left everyone....to phone Jeremy and say just ten words. Leaving the phone off the hook so no one can phone.
Then Neville heard gun shots and ran back upstairs, unprotected. Although he could be shot himself.
Sheila accurately shoots Neville four times. He then runs straight back downstairs although Sheila is running out or has run out of bullets and the other people will need medical attention.
Sheila reloads while Neville waits in the kitchen prior to putting up a tremendous fight for life.
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So Sheila was awake, crazy and holding a rifle.
June and the twins were sleeping.
Neville left everyone....to phone Jeremy and say just ten words. Leaving the phone off the hook so no one can phone.
Then Neville heard gun shots and ran back upstairs, unprotected. Although he could be shot himself.
Sheila accurately shoots Neville four times. He then runs straight back downstairs although Sheila is running out or has run out of bullets and the other people will need medical attention.
Sheila reloads while Neville waits in the kitchen prior to putting up a tremendous fight for life.
Thanks for that, Adam. It seems, at last, we now have what you think in black and white, instead of you taking the )()( out of what others say.
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You spin a fine tale-------------for the umpteenth time.
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So Sheila was awake, crazy and holding a rifle.
June and the twins were sleeping.
Neville left everyone....to phone Jeremy and say just ten words. Leaving the phone off the hook so no one can phone.
Then Neville heard gun shots and ran back upstairs, unprotected. Although he could be shot himself.
Sheila accurately shoots Neville four times. He then runs straight back downstairs although Sheila is running out or has run out of bullets and the other people will need medical attention.
Sheila reloads while Neville waits in the kitchen prior to putting up a tremendous fight for life.
There is no way that anyone can say in what order the shots were taken? As I said before the person who did these murders must have been extremely disturbed so our so called "logic" may not apply? For instance if 10 shots were taken upstairs in the main bedroom wgo is to say whether they were all taken at the same time, thus emptying the gun. Or if a few shots were taken and the murderer went away to another part of the house and then went back again for another go? You simply cannot form an order of the sgots just by looking at the distribution of the shell cases or bullet wounds. Add to that the extra shell case found upstairs. I simply cannot just discount for the sake of my scenario remaining intact by stating that the shell case was taken upstairs accidentally on the shoe of one of the raid team?
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There is no way that anyone can say in what order the shots were taken? As I said before the person who did these murders must have been extremely disturbed so our so called "logic" may not apply? For instance if 10 shots were taken upstairs in the main bedroom wgo is to say whether they were all taken at the same time, thus emptying the gun. Or if a few shots were taken and the murderer went away to another part of the house and then went back again for another go? You simply cannot form an order of the sgots just by looking at the distribution of the shell cases or bullet wounds. Add to that the extra shell case found upstairs. I simply cannot just discount for the sake of my scenario remaining intact by stating that the shell case was taken upstairs accidentally on the shoe of one of the raid team?
Anyone is allowed to give their opinions of who was shot with the first ten bullets. It's a discussion forum.
You think Sheila's ten bullets in the main bedroom could have been fired at different times ? A bit of a co incidence that the amount of bullets found in the main bedroom matched a fully loaded rifle total.
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There is no way that anyone can say in what order the shots were taken? As I said before the person who did these murders must have been extremely disturbed so our so called "logic" may not apply? For instance if 10 shots were taken upstairs in the main bedroom wgo is to say whether they were all taken at the same time, thus emptying the gun. Or if a few shots were taken and the murderer went away to another part of the house and then went back again for another go? You simply cannot form an order of the sgots just by looking at the distribution of the shell cases or bullet wounds. Add to that the extra shell case found upstairs. I simply cannot just discount for the sake of my scenario remaining intact by stating that the shell case was taken upstairs accidentally on the shoe of one of the raid team?
The evidence that the shooting began int he bedroom is very solid so solid that no one here has been able to refute it and instead choose to just ignore it like you are doing now because that evidence harms the version you are trying to peddle of Sheila being responsible.
Taking into account the location of the shell casings, the bullets that exited/grazed the bodies, the number of shots the weapon holds, the locations on the body where victims were shot/the trajectories etc no Jeremy supporter has been able to come up with a way for the shooting to have happened where Sheila would have done the shooting and Nevill would have had the opportunity to make a call. Those who tried to do so made up wildly unrealistic claims that make no sense.
David's suggest Nevill was scared to face Sheila so ran away leaving his wife to be shot, June was shot 4 times then even though June was not dead and Sheila had more bullets left she just hung out waiting in the bedroom to see if Nevill would return thus permitting him to escape the house if desired. He was too scared to do anything so called Jeremy, then suddenly grew brave and left the phone off the hook for no reason and went up to confront Sheila unarmed though he could have armed himself.
He didn't grow brave till after he asked Jeremy to come then he grew a pair and went up and Sheila was hanging out waiting. Give me a break!
Adam is right that Jeremy supporters can't come up with a way for Sheila to have done it which matches the evidence (and the evidence includes Jeremy's own claims).
Jeremy supporters didn't come to the conclusion he is innocent by following the evidence they came to it by choosing to ignore the evidence or to discount evidence though they have no way of refuting the evidence so no rational basis to discount it or ignore it.
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I'm convinced the twins where the first to go. Its absurd to suggest they could sleep through up to 15 gun shots, dog barking, people screaming and the brawl in the kitchen. Unless they had major ear defects.
Shelia fires 1 shot at Daniel then 1 at Nicholas then fires 4 at June then the last 4 at Neville when he returns upstairs
Jeremy fires 1 shot at Daniel then 1 at Nicholas then fires 4 shots at Neville and 4 shots at June same time same room.
If Jeremy went for Neville first there would be no conflict in the kitchen he could have gone in the main bedroom and shot Neville straight through the head several times killing him instantly.
In my version of events Jeremy takes out the children first because he might find it to difficult to kill them while awake. Sounds a bit odd but if I had to shoot a child I would find it much easier to do it while the child is asleep if that makes sense.
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I'm convinced the twins where the first to go. Its absurd to suggest they could sleep through up to 15 gun shots, dog barking, people screaming and the brawl in the kitchen. Unless they had major ear defects.
Shelia fires 1 shot at Daniel then 1 at Nicholas then fires 4 at June then the last 4 at Neville when he returns upstairs
Jeremy fires 1 shot at Daniel then 1 at Nicholas then fires 4 shots at Neville and 4 shots at June same time same room.
If Jeremy went for Neville first there would be no conflict in the kitchen he could have gone in the main bedroom and shot Neville straight through the head several times killing him instantly.
In my version of events Jeremy takes out the children first because he might find it to difficult to kill them while awake. Sounds a bit odd but if I had to shoot a child I would find it much easier to do it while the child is asleep if that makes sense.
That's a fair point.
Jeremy may have shot each twin once. With the silencer attached. Even he will find it hard to shoot two awake young boys.
Then fired eight shots in the main bedroom. Believing that there is still enough bullets to kill Neville and June. Shooting June again after a re load after seeing she may still be alive after she had moved.
But a bit pointless shooting the twins another six times if they were dead. It makes the attack seem more crazy, but I doubt Jeremy would think of that in the heat of the moment after the massacre went pear shaped.
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Then again Jeremy was expecting a silent multiple execution. Silencer attached.
June & Neville shot and killed in bed. Sheila woken and killed with minimal resistance. Why would the twins wake ? So why shoot the twins first and risk waking 1-3 adults ?
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I'm convinced the twins where the first to go. Its absurd to suggest they could sleep through up to 15 gun shots, dog barking, people screaming and the brawl in the kitchen. Unless they had major ear defects.
Shelia fires 1 shot at Daniel then 1 at Nicholas then fires 4 at June then the last 4 at Neville when he returns upstairs
Jeremy fires 1 shot at Daniel then 1 at Nicholas then fires 4 shots at Neville and 4 shots at June same time same room.
If Jeremy went for Neville first there would be no conflict in the kitchen he could have gone in the main bedroom and shot Neville straight through the head several times killing him instantly.
In my version of events Jeremy takes out the children first because he might find it to difficult to kill them while awake. Sounds a bit odd but if I had to shoot a child I would find it much easier to do it while the child is asleep if that makes sense.
Scipio said they did. But strangely enough he doesn't think the grandparents would. That's consistency for you. ;D
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Scipio said they did. But strangely enough he doesn't think the grandparents would. That's consistency for you. ;D
Or Sheila.
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Or Sheila.
Yes of course.
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That's a fair point.
Jeremy may have shot each twin once. With the silencer attached. Even he will find it hard to shoot two awake young boys.
Then fired eight shots in the main bedroom. Believing that there is still enough bullets to kill Neville and June. Shooting June again after a re load after seeing she may still be alive after she had moved.
But a bit pointless shooting the twins another six times if they were dead. It makes the attack seem more crazy, but I doubt Jeremy would think of that in the heat of the moment after the massacre went pear shaped.
Without getting into the silencer/moderator fiasco. I think had Jeremy chose to kill Neville and June first they would both be found dead like the twins. Jeremy could have sneaked while they both asleep bang bang two head shots done! Had he targeted Neville first with the element of surprise on his side how could he have possibly failed?
I think its fair to believe he shot the twins first as shooting them alive would require a heart of stone that he didn't have so planned to kill them first.
All the remaining shots are either Sheila being in a delusion state feeling the need to repeatedly shoot the bodies maybe perceived to still be alive or Jeremy shooting the dead bodies multiple times to make it look as if a crazy person had done it
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Scipio said they did. But strangely enough he doesn't think the grandparents would. That's consistency for you. ;D
I'm not really concerned what Scipio sais, His primary motive is to wind people up
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Without getting into the silencer/moderator fiasco. I think had Jeremy chose to kill Neville and June first they would both be found dead like the twins. Jeremy could have sneaked while they both asleep bang bang two head shots done! Had he targeted Neville first with the element of surprise on his side how could he have possibly failed?
I think its fair to believe he shot the twins first as shooting them alive would require a heart of stone that he didn't have so planned to kill them first.
All the remaining shots are either Sheila being in a delusion state feeling the need to repeatedly shoot the bodies maybe perceived to still be alive or Jeremy shooting the dead bodies multiple times to make it look as if a crazy person had done it
If it was only to kill and nothing else, it seems like massive overkill to shoot two little six year olds eight times.
Your reasons make sense - just don´t know which to pick.
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If it was only to kill and nothing else, it seems like massive overkill to shoot two little six year olds eight times.
Your reasons make sense - just don´t know which to pick.
The prosecution argues that Jeremy done it for the inheritance. Therefore
1. The Twins would get either 1/2 or 2/3 of that inheritance. Leaving Jeremy less of the pie
2. For argument sake if Jeremy got away with it and just killed Shelia June and Neville while the Twins stayed at Collins As the Twins got older they may have began to question the version of events that led to their mothers death putting Jeremy under suspicion
3. Jeremy would have to take them out that night as they could be potential witnesses with damning evidence against him
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Without getting into the silencer/moderator fiasco. I think had Jeremy chose to kill Neville and June first they would both be found dead like the twins. Jeremy could have sneaked while they both asleep bang bang two head shots done! Had he targeted Neville first with the element of surprise on his side how could he have possibly failed?
I think its fair to believe he shot the twins first as shooting them alive would require a heart of stone that he didn't have so planned to kill them first.
All the remaining shots are either Sheila being in a delusion state feeling the need to repeatedly shoot the bodies maybe perceived to still be alive or Jeremy shooting the dead bodies multiple times to make it look as if a crazy person had done it
Do you not believe it would benefit Jeremy to use a silencer ?
I believe he entered the main bedroom, and shot the person closest to the main door - June, who was shot with her head on the pillow. This only took a few seconds and was not that loud.
He then went around to Neville's side of the bed. But Neville woke and moved seconds beforehand. Jeremy still got close enough to hit Neville four times.
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If it was only to kill and nothing else, it seems like massive overkill to shoot two little six year olds eight times.
Your reasons make sense - just don´t know which to pick.
He had to shoot June 7 times and Nevill 8 times to kill them. by the time he was killing the twins he wasn't too impressed by the performance of the gun. He wanted to make sure they died so shot each multiple times.
Shooting Sheila was botched. What no one has considered is maybe the first shot was the accident and not the second shot. The first shot was straight through her neck lodging in the neckbone after breaking it so with the gun held at nearly a 90 degree angle. Why would he think that would be a good angle to kill her? Maybe he accidentally fired that first shot, perhaps Sheila was giving him problems and he ended up accidentally shooting. That makes more sense than the shot up into her head being an accident.
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Don´t talk to me. You know who you are.
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Don´t talk to me. You know who you are.
You are wasting your time with such responses, I didn't authorize Adam to be my spokesmen but he was right that I am not going to stop responding anymore than I did after Mike told me to stop responding to his posts.
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Scipio do you think June was shot first then Ralph. It does concern me a little as to where Sheila was when all this was going on.
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You are wasting your time with such responses, I didn't authorize Adam to be my spokesmen but he was right that I am not going to stop responding anymore than I did after Mike told me to stop responding to his posts.
You will regret this attitude, trust me.
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Do you not believe it would benefit Jeremy to use a silencer ?
I believe he entered the main bedroom, and shot the person closest to the main door - June, who was shot with her head on the pillow.
This only took a few seconds before he went around to Neville's side of the bed. But Neville woke and moved seconds beforehand. Jeremy still got close enough to hit Neville four times.
No because its not an actual silencer that would reduce the sound. Those old parker hale type silencers do not slow down ammunition it would only be useful on an air-rifle. Any fancy specialist silencers that you may be able to get in the states have never been legal here.
1. According to Boutflour he found the Silencer in its manufactures box neatly packed up in a bag
2. Police searched the cupboard beforehand and never found the silencer
3. Modern DNA tests in 1999 found no traces of blood but found human DNA not blood based.
4. Had Jeremy used it he would not keep asking for it to be DNA tested
Had Jeremy committed the crime with the silencer. Since people give him so much credit for staging planning ect would he have not just placed the silencer next to Shelia as if Shelia herself realised she would find it difficult to kill herself with it attached? why go and pack it away all neat and tidy and the police don't even find it somehow.
Using the Silencer indoors would make the rifle very cumbersome and tricky in a confined area. Had he targeted Neville and June first I'm very confident they would have been found dead in the bed like the Twins. How could you attack two sleeping elderly people with a fully loaded semi automatic rifle and fail?
I think the twins went first Neville June woke as a result regardless if Shelia or Jeremy done it
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Scipio do you think June was shot first then Ralph. It does concern me a little as to where Sheila was when all this was going on.
Since the plan was to claim Nevill phoned him obviously killing Nevill as he slept was not an option because how could he have called if he died before he even got out of bed? I think he shot June first and allowed Nevill to at minimum wake up and sit up if not affording him enough time to start to get up before opening fire at Nevill. He underestimated the power of his gun and his targeting ability at moving objects though. He got Nevill in the lip and jaw (in addition to the arm and the graze wound) not in optimal locations to disable Nevill. He was hoping those head shots would have disabled him.
He didn't know he only got Nevill's lip and jaw he knows two shots to the face didn't stop him. So that was why he poured 4 bullets in the kitchen. Any 1 of them were sufficient to kill Nevill but he didn't know that and after what he experienced he wanted to be sure. He wanted to be sure with the boys as well so shot their heads multiple times and hence the extra shot between June's eyes while she was already on the floor.
Since he was worried about the power of the gun he would have wanted to be careful of where he shot Sheila. Maybe she was not cooperating and he accidentally fired that shot that went from the front to back of her neck. Then after seeing she was still alive he panicked and fired to shot from her chin into her head which one would have expected to be the shot he intended to fire.
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No because its not an actual silencer that would reduce the sound. Those old parker hale type silencers do not slow down ammunition it would only be useful on an air-rifle. Any fancy specialist silencers that you may be able to get in the states have never been legal here.
1. According to Boutflour he found the Silencer in its manufactures box neatly packed up in a bag
2. Police searched the cupboard beforehand and never found the silencer
3. Modern DNA tests in 1999 found no traces of blood but found human DNA not blood based.
4. Had Jeremy used it he would not keep asking for it to be DNA tested
Had Jeremy committed the crime with the silencer. Since people give him so much credit for staging planning ect would he have not just placed the silencer next to Shelia as if Shelia herself realised she would find it difficult to kill herself with it attached? why go and pack it away all neat and tidy and the police don't even find it somehow.
Using the Silencer indoors would make the rifle very cumbersome and tricky in a confined area. Had he targeted Neville and June first I'm very confident they would have been found dead in the bed like the Twins. How could you attack two sleeping elderly people with a fully loaded semi automatic rifle and fail?
I think the twins went first Neville June woke as a result regardless if Shelia or Jeremy done it
I've no idea whether the silencer made the gun shots silent. If they reduced the noise a little bit, it is worth using.
The silencer was found in a box. Underneath other boxes, guns and a dart board.
Jeremy would put the silencer away to give the impression Sheila went crazy and shot everyone, including herself in a short period. Rather than shoot everyone, and then take a silencer off. Sheila having to reload twice is outlandish enough.
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Scipio thanks for the explanation. Sheila must have still been sleeping at this stage I guess.
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My view is Jeremy planned to kill everyone in bed, except Sheila.
He could then move Neville, or June a few feet from the bed to give the impression he/she was awake. Then take the bedroom phone off the hook.
Because Neville got downstairs, he moved the bedroom phone downstairs and took it off the hook.
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My view is Jeremy planned to kill everyone in bed, except Sheila.
He could then move Neville, or June a few feet from the bed to give the impression he/she was awake. Then take the bedroom phone off the hook.
Because Neville got downstairs, he moved the bedroom phone downstairs and took it off the hook.
Not possible, people would wake sound moderator or not. Dog will go nuts sound moderator or not.
Shooting a gun indoors in a concealed space is very loud.
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Not possible, people would wake sound moderator or not. Dog will go nuts sound moderator or not.
Shooting a gun indoors in a concealed space is very loud.
He nearly achieved it. June shot with her head on the pillow. The twins shot while asleep.
Neville woke seconds before getting a lethal 'head on pillow' shot. But still got hit four times right next to June.
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He nearly achieved it. June shot with her head on the pillow. The twins shot while asleep.
Neville woke seconds before getting a lethal 'head on pillow' shot. But still got hit four times right next to June.
How do you know! where you there? ::)
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Not possible, people would wake sound moderator or not. Dog will go nuts sound moderator or not.
Shooting a gun indoors in a concealed space is very loud.
You just keep making up your own crap and spouting it over and over like a broken record. You were already corrected how many times and keep repeating it anyway which is a sign of bias not rational objective thought like you keep professing.
Your claim the moderator would not do anything was already proven false. The moderator was used in combination with subsonic ammo and the combination results in a significant reduction in noise. There thus would be a reason to use the moderator and a benefit from it.
Your claim everyone would have to wake up from the shots is nonsense. There are documented cases of people not waking up from shots by louder weapons fired in a room next to theirs without a moderator and the rounds not being subsonic. Some people wake up from loud noises while some don't.
Saying that the sound would be loud in the room where they were fired because of the confined space doesn't in any way suggest if would be heard in other rooms that don't border the room in question. In fact people keep saying how thick the walls at WHF are.
Since the rooms were not adjacent that means the sound would have to pass through multiple walls to be heard. Using the moderator helps reduce the chances of that happening.
Your whole premise is just nonsense you made up ignoring real world considerations.
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How do you know! where you there? ::)
I was not. But am following the evidence. Which is not disputed by either side.
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How do you know! where you there? ::)
Were you? scipio says they would, do you agree with him? Mind you he also things the children WOULD sleep through it all. ::) Oh and Sheila of course.
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You just keep making up your own crap and spouting it over and over like a broken record. You were already corrected how many times and keep repeating it anyway which is a sign of bias not rational objective thought like you keep professing.
Your claim the moderator would not do anything was already proven false. The moderator was used in combination with subsonic ammo and the combination results in a significant reduction in noise. There thus would be a reason to use the moderator and a benefit from it.
Your claim everyone would have to wake up from the shots is nonsense. There are documented cases of people not waking up from shots by louder weapons fired in a room next to theirs without a moderator and the rounds not being subsonic. Some people wake up from loud noises while some don't.
Saying that the sound would be loud in the room where they were fired because of the confined space doesn't in any way suggest if would be heard in other rooms that don't border the room in question. In fact people keep saying how thick the walls at WHF are.
Since the rooms were not adjacent that means the sound would have to pass through multiple walls to be heard. Using the moderator helps reduce the chances of that happening.
Your whole premise is just nonsense you made up ignoring real world considerations.
so therefore it would be possible for sc to shoot herself whilst the police were outside and no one would hear a thing.
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You just keep making up your own crap and spouting it over and over like a broken record. You were already corrected how many times and keep repeating it anyway which is a sign of bias not rational objective thought like you keep professing.
Your claim the moderator would not do anything was already proven false. The moderator was used in combination with subsonic ammo and the combination results in a significant reduction in noise. There thus would be a reason to use the moderator and a benefit from it.
Your claim everyone would have to wake up from the shots is nonsense. There are documented cases of people not waking up from shots by louder weapons fired in a room next to theirs without a moderator and the rounds not being subsonic. Some people wake up from loud noises while some don't.
Saying that the sound would be loud in the room where they were fired because of the confined space doesn't in any way suggest if would be heard in other rooms that don't border the room in question. In fact people keep saying how thick the walls at WHF are.
Since the rooms were not adjacent that means the sound would have to pass through multiple walls to be heard. Using the moderator helps reduce the chances of that happening.
Your whole premise is just nonsense you made up ignoring real world considerations.
just another example of how scipio is very respectful towards other posters. Someone ought to tell him. But I trow that he is alas unteachable? ::)
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You just keep making up your own crap and spouting it over and over like a broken record. You were already corrected how many times and keep repeating it anyway which is a sign of bias not rational objective thought like you keep professing.
Your claim the moderator would not do anything was already proven false. The moderator was used in combination with subsonic ammo and the combination results in a significant reduction in noise. There thus would be a reason to use the moderator and a benefit from it.
Your claim everyone would have to wake up from the shots is nonsense. There are documented cases of people not waking up from shots by louder weapons fired in a room next to theirs without a moderator and the rounds not being subsonic. Some people wake up from loud noises while some don't.
Saying that the sound would be loud in the room where they were fired because of the confined space doesn't in any way suggest if would be heard in other rooms that don't border the room in question. In fact people keep saying how thick the walls at WHF are.
Since the rooms were not adjacent that means the sound would have to pass through multiple walls to be heard. Using the moderator helps reduce the chances of that happening.
Your whole premise is just nonsense you made up ignoring real world considerations.
Oh hail Skippy I bow my head to thee!
So I just keep making up my own crap and spouting it over and over like a broken record?
Well maybe one day I will almost be as good as spouting crap as you! Teach me the way of spouting crap master skippy teach me the way!
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Oh hail Skippy I bow my head to thee!
So I just keep making up my own crap and spouting it over and over like a broken record?
Well maybe one day I will almost be as good as spouting crap as you! Teach me the way of spouting crap master skippy teach me the way!
Your crap is better than his crap David. ;D
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Not possible, people would wake sound moderator or not. Dog will go nuts sound moderator or not.
Shooting a gun indoors in a concealed space is very loud.
My claim that Jeremy wanted to stage the scene in the bedroom, with the bedroom phone off the hook, is supported by evidence.
The bedroom phone phone was found off the hook. But in the kitchen. Because Neville got downstairs. The kitchen phone found under a pile of newspapers. In perfect working order.
A 'curious coincidence' ?
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My word,for a murderer he took great pains with everything. Rearranging bodies,furniture,phones,mopping up blood then soaking the items in buckets of water,locking all internal doors,scattering guns here and there. Leaving the place looking as though a bomb had hit it. Then jumping on a bike and pedalling like the clappers,in pitch dark along the sea wall.
How long did all this faffing around take as well as allegedly killing them all ?
Estimate the time it would have taken,against a time that those people died,to the time that Jeremy rang the police.
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My claim that Jeremy wanted to stage the scene in the bedroom, with the bedroom phone off the hook, is supported by evidence.
The bedroom phone phone was found off the hook. But in the kitchen. Because Neville got downstairs. The kitchen phone found under a pile of newspapers. In perfect working order.
A 'curious coincidence' ?
But what about the officer who used the phone before the crime scene photos?
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My claim that Jeremy wanted to stage the scene in the bedroom, with the bedroom phone off the hook, is supported by evidence.
The bedroom phone phone was found off the hook. But in the kitchen. Because Neville got downstairs. The kitchen phone found under a pile of newspapers. In perfect working order.
A 'curious coincidence' ?
You fail to consider many variables.
1.How do we know that phone was always upstairs the only people who could answer are dead
2. Jeremy could have taken then kitchen phone off the hook before the shooting rendering all lines useless specially if that phone was upstairs.
3. Why would Jeremy leave both phones downstairs once everyone is dead? He could have left the kitchen phone off the hook and put the bedroom phone back upstairs that's if it was a bedroom phone once everyone is dead.
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so therefore it would be possible for sc to shoot herself whilst the police were outside and no one would hear a thing.
I already despatched this nonsense the other day I guess you enjoy being embarrassed.
1) Police outside were not asleep they were carefully listening for any sound and any sight they could so just because people can sleep through sounds doesn't mean attentive police would not hear the sounds
2) The window was open so the sound would travel to them if shots were fired. There is a big difference between sound traveling through an open window and 2 thick walls that are separated by open space.
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You fail to consider many variables.
1.How do we know that phone was always upstairs the only people who could answer are dead
2. Jeremy could have taken then kitchen phone off the hook before the shooting rendering all lines useless specially if that phone was upstairs.
3. Why would Jeremy leave both phones downstairs once everyone is dead? He could have left the kitchen phone off the hook and put the bedroom phone back upstairs that's if it was a bedroom phone once everyone is dead.
It is a 'curious coincidence' the bedroom phone was plugged into the kitchen phone socket.
Jeremy ensured both phones were downstairs to explain Neville being downstairs. There would be no reason for Neville to leave the upstairs area if there was a working bedroom phone. All his family were upstairs.
Jeremy almost certainly did disable all phones upon entrance. By taking the kitchen phone off the hook. Which could be a reason why Neville went downstairs.
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You fail to consider many variables.
1.How do we know that phone was always upstairs the only people who could answer are dead
2. Jeremy could have taken then kitchen phone off the hook before the shooting rendering all lines useless specially if that phone was upstairs.
3. Why would Jeremy leave both phones downstairs once everyone is dead? He could have left the kitchen phone off the hook and put the bedroom phone back upstairs that's if it was a bedroom phone once everyone is dead.
The farm workers knew where the phones usually were. Furthermore the telephone worker who replaced the broken phones a month before noted where the phones were. Shortly before the murders another guy took the cordless phone away and noted the phone normally in the bedroom was in the kitchen so this proves it was moved before the murders.
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But what about the officer who used the phone before the crime scene photos?
What does that have to do with anything? The police were unable to call the house to try to speak with those inside because the phone was off the hook. The police say the phone that was off the hook was the kitchen phone not the phone in the upstairs office. They were the only 2 phones plugged in. The other phone (the regular kitchen phone) was unplugged and hidden.
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I already despatched this nonsense the other day I guess you enjoy being embarrassed.
1) Police outside were not asleep they were carefully listening for any sound and any sight they could so just because people can sleep through sounds doesn't mean attentive police would not hear the sounds
2) The window was open so the sound would travel to them if shots were fired. There is a big difference between sound traveling through an open window and 2 thick walls that are separated by open space.
I admire you're tenacity.
You were so confident of Jeremy's possible innocence, you explained how Sheila could have done it. Something only one other supporter has dared to do.
When that was ripped apart you submitted a totally revamped application. Which was also ripped apart.
Now you are still arguing how Jeremy could not have committed the massacre. Although I submitted a straight forward summary.
Jan, you have a rival.
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The farm workers knew where the phones usually were. Furthermore the telephone worker who replaced the broken phones a month before noted where the phones were. Shortly before the murders another guy took the cordless phone away and noted the phone normally in the bedroom was in the kitchen so this proves it was moved before the murders.
All Jeremy would have to do is leave the kitchen phone off the hook disabling all other lines! he would have worked that one out.
If he did move the phones to prevent a call. afterwards he would have placed the phone back upstairs
Otherwise he is a calculating genius and a fool that incriminates himself at the same time
this don't add up
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so therefore it would be possible for sc to shoot herself whilst the police were outside and no one would hear a thing.
Indeedy,seeing as it was a muffled contact shot as well.
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Why an earth would a bedroom phone be plugged into the kitchen phone socket ? The kitchen phone in perfect working order so obviously removed to make way for the bedroom phone.
There is no reason.
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Why an earth would a bedroom phone be plugged into the kitchen phone socket ? The kitchen phone in perfect working order so obviously removed to make way for the bedroom phone.
There is no reason.
Was the kitchen phone unplugged? I a read was that it was under magazines and got a dial tone when off the hook
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All Jeremy would have to do is leave the kitchen phone off the hook disabling all other lines! he would have worked that one out.
If he did move the phones to prevent a call. afterwards he would have placed the phone back upstairs
Otherwise he is a calculating genius and a fool that incriminates himself at the same time
this don't add up
Taking a phone off the hook would not disable the other phones until it is off for a sufficient amount of time for the dialtone to go away.
In the meantime he had no way to know for sure if they would wake up as he entered the window and call police before he even got far inside. Taking the phone from the bedroom a day before the murders and saying it was needed to replace the broken kitchen phone was his clever way of doing it.
Moreover after killing Nevill int he kitchen he wanted to make it look like Nevill called from the kitchen then Sheila killed him. He didn't anticipate figuring out Nevill was shot upstairs before he went to the kitchen. If he put the phone back int he bedroom then Nevill going to the kitchen makes less sense unless he was chasing Jeremy after Jeremy ran out of bullets- which Jeremy didn't want anyone to figure out.
The kitchen phone was replaced with the bedroom phone shortly before the murders. Jeremy says it was because the kitchen phone was broken. The kitchen phone wasn't broken though it was working when it was found hidden. It wasn't sent away to be repaired it was hidden simply. When found Jeremy lied and said it was an extra phone though she recognizes it as the kitchen phone.
Who would have removed a perfectly good phone to replace it with the bedroom phone and why would Jeremy lie and say it was just an extra phone? There are few good ways to try to reconcile it other than Jeremy doing so in anticipation of the murders.
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Was the kitchen phone unplugged? I a read was that it was under magazines and got a dial tone when off the hook
It was unplugged when hidden. After it was found the housekeeper or secretary (I forget which) tested it and found it working and upon asking Jeremy about it he claimed the phone was just an extra though she recognized it as the regular kitchen phone.
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Was the kitchen phone unplugged? I a read was that it was under magazines and got a dial tone when off the hook
Well unless there were two phone sockets, the kitchen phone would be unplugged. The bedroom phone in the kitchen phone socket.
If both phones were plugged into different phone sockets in the kitchen, that would be even weirder.
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Taking a phone off the hook would not disable the other phones until it is off for a sufficient amount of time for the dialtone to go away.
In the meantime he had no way to know for sure if they would wake up as he entered the window and call police before he even got far inside. Taking the phone from the bedroom a day before the murders and saying it was needed to replace the broken kitchen phone was his clever way of doing it.
Moreover after killing Nevill int he kitchen he wanted to make it look like Nevill called from the kitchen then Sheila killed him. He didn't anticipate figuring out Nevill was shot upstairs before he went to the kitchen. If he put the phone back int he bedroom then Nevill going to the kitchen makes less sense unless he was chasing Jeremy after Jeremy ran out of bullets- which Jeremy didn't want anyone to figure out.
The kitchen phone was replaced with the bedroom phone shortly before the murders. Jeremy says it was because the kitchen phone was broken. The kitchen phone wasn't broken though it was working when it was found hidden. It wasn't sent away to be repaired it was hidden simply. When found Jeremy lied and said it was an extra phone though she recognizes it as the kitchen phone.
Who would have removed a perfectly good phone to replace it with the bedroom phone and why would Jeremy lie and say it was just an extra phone? There are few good ways to try to reconcile it other than Jeremy doing so in anticipation of the murders.
I have read there was only one phone line at WHF. Taking the kitchen phone off the hook disables all phones. That's the way it works where I live as well.
Jeremy playing musical phones before the massacre is quite suspicious. Although his last supper at WHF may have also been to check on phone locations.
It's still slightly risky as Neville or June may have put the bedroom phone upstairs that very night.
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If either Neville or June heard an intruder, they may not ring the police. It's surely too late. They would wake each other up, and wake Sheila and all stick together.
Jeremy would have got a shock when they all shouted 'surprise'.
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I have read there was only one phone line at WHF. Taking the kitchen phone off the hook disables all phones. That's the way it works where I live as well.
Same here! all Jeremy would have to do is just that
Jeremy playing musical phones before the massacre is quite suspicious. Although his last supper at WHF may have also been to check on phone locations.
No need for him to play musical phones for reasons above.
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No because its not an actual silencer that would reduce the sound. Those old parker hale type silencers do not slow down ammunition it would only be useful on an air-rifle. Any fancy specialist silencers that you may be able to get in the states have never been legal here.
More made up nonsense. If the moderator were of no value then the murder weapon would not be sold threaded to accept a moderator. As already explained the moderator reduces the noise caused by the gases and the sonic crack was absent because of the subsonic ammunition so the register is lower than it would be if a moderator had not been used there was a reason to use it.
1. According to Boutflour he found the Silencer in its manufactures box neatly packed up in a bag
That is not good for Jeremy. The gun was normally used with the moderator attached and was normally stored int he closet with the moderator attached. That is how AP found it a little over week before the murders when he used it. The killer obviously removed it after use and stuck it in the box to try to conceal it had been used. This is a very bad point to bring up if you want to aid Jeremy.
2. Police searched the cupboard beforehand and never found the silencer
Police did a quick look through the cupboard and didn't bother to take out the ammunition etc because they saw no reason to.
3. Modern DNA tests in 1999 found no traces of blood but found human DNA not blood based.
There is no such thing as a DNA test that tests for blood. They did tests for blood that turned up negative all that proves is that no blood remained int he moderator in 1999 it was all removed in 1985 and 1986 by the experts. This in no way helps refute the blood removed in 1985 and 1986 was deposited during the murders and was Sheila's.
4. Had Jeremy used it he would not keep asking for it to be DNA tested
Thats not true many guilty people have asked for DNA tests that ended up confirming their guilt. When stuck in prison for life or many years there is nothing to lose in requesting a DNA test even when guilty there is always hope to try to spin the results somehow. In fact, as you keep pointing out Jeremy and his lawyers knew prior to requesting the DNA tests that no blood was remaining int he moderator. There was thus no reason to request the DNA tests except with the intention of distorting what the results mean.
Since he knew there was no blood left what would he have to fear from a DNA test? Any DNA found would not be blood based but rather the result of contamination so what danger could it pose?
Had Jeremy committed the crime with the silencer. Since people give him so much credit for staging planning ect would he have not just placed the silencer next to Shelia as if Shelia herself realised she would find it difficult to kill herself with it attached? why go and pack it away all neat and tidy and the police don't even find it somehow.
He packed it away and then told the lie he left the gun out without the moderator attached figuring no one would ever investigate the moderator and figure out it had been used at all.
Using the Silencer indoors would make the rifle very cumbersome and tricky in a confined area. Had he targeted Neville and June first I'm very confident they would have been found dead in the bed like the Twins. How could you attack two sleeping elderly people with a fully loaded semi automatic rifle and fail?
I think the twins went first Neville June woke as a result regardless if Shelia or Jeremy done it
It wouldn't make it cumbersome. In the meantime your argument that Nevill and June would have died in bed if he targeted them first makes no sense at all. June didn't die in bed because he was inept at his targeting. If he was a better shot she would have died in bed. She would not have been in bed to shoot if he first shot the boys. He had to let Nevill get out of bed before killing him. Killing him in bed would demolish his planned lie about Nevill calling him to come over. Who would believe Nevill told Jeremy to come over then jumped back in bed and his there waiting for Jeremy to come over and was thus killed in bed?
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I have read there was only one phone line at WHF. Taking the kitchen phone off the hook disables all phones. That's the way it works where I live as well.
Jeremy playing musical phones before the massacre is quite suspicious. Although his last supper at WHF may have also been to check on phone locations.
It's still slightly risky as Neville or June may have put the bedroom phone upstairs that very night.
There were 3 phone jacks, 1 in the kitchen, 1 in the master bedroom and 1 in the upstairs office. In order to have 2 phones in the kitchen they used a splitter adapter. When the cordless phone was removed from the kitchen and taken away the adapter was taken with it. SO from that point on only 1 phone could be plugged in in the kitchen.
Taking a phone off the hook would not automatically disable the other extensions. The phone had to be off the hook for an extended period of time for the dialtone to go away and at that point none of the phones could be used until it was hung up.
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Same here! all Jeremy would have to do is just that
No need for him to play musical phones for reasons above.
Hi David, there are a few aspects to this which may be interpreted in different ways, none of which are conclusive.
Usually there were four phones in the house, one in the master bedroom, one in the upstairs office and two in the kitchen (one of which was a cordless phone which was away for repair).
The two kitchen phones were connected through the wall and into a twin adapter into a single socket located in the cupboard opposite the ground floor shower room.
On the night of the murders, the office phone was in it's usual place, the cordless kitchen phone was away for repair, the corded kitchen phone was disconnected and located beneath some magazines in the kitchen and finally the bedroom phone was in the kitchen plugged in, in place of the usual corded kitchen phone.
The conundrum which causes the most speculation, is why was the bedroom phone located in the kitchen, in place of the usual kitchen phone, which was found to be in perfect working order. The usual kitchen phone was also, seemingly hidden (depending on your view).
There are a whole host of possible reasons/theories as to why the phones were located as they were, some completely innocent, others extremely suspicious.
It's quite possible that the phones were swapped about before the murders, or staged afterwards.
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Hi David, there are a few aspects to this which may be interpreted in different ways, none of which are conclusive.
Usually there were four phones in the house, one in the master bedroom, one in the upstairs office and two in the kitchen (one of which was a cordless phone which was away for repair).
The two kitchen phones were connected through the wall and into a twin adapter into a single socket located in the cupboard opposite the ground floor shower room.
On the night of the murders, the office phone was in it's usual place, the cordless kitchen phone was away for repair, the corded kitchen phone was disconnected and located beneath some magazines in the kitchen and finally the bedroom phone was in the kitchen plugged in, in place of the usual corded kitchen phone.
The conundrum which causes the most speculation, is why was the bedroom phone located in the kitchen, in place of the usual kitchen phone, which was found to be in perfect working order. The usual kitchen phone was also, seemingly hidden (depending on your view).
There are a whole host of possible reasons/theories as to why the phones were located as they were, some completely innocent, others extremely suspicious.
It's quite possible that the phones were swapped about before the murders, or staged afterwards.
Hartley,the phone found under the magazines,was it a push button model do you know?
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Hartley,the phone found under the magazines,was it a push button model do you know?
I thought it was an old dial phone, but would have to check.
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I thought it was an old dial phone, but would have to check.
Thanks. Its just that the engineer said in his statement that June preferred a round dial type telephone,and I thought maybe that is why the usual kitchen telephone was discarded in favour of the cream bedroom one.
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I thought it was an old dial phone, but would have to check.
No, it was the other way around. The bedroom phone was a finger dial, the usual kitchen phone was a push button digital.
This is noted in the statement from BOUTTELL.
The photograph of the phone off the hook shows the finger dial bedroom phone.
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Thanks. Its just that the engineer said in his statement that June preferred a round dial type telephone,and I thought maybe that is why the usual kitchen telephone was discarded in favour of the cream bedroom one.
That would be one of the possible innocent theories then.
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Thanks. Its just that the engineer said in his statement that June preferred a round dial type telephone,and I thought maybe that is why the usual kitchen telephone was discarded in favour of the cream bedroom one.
Although why swap it over, rather than having the finger dial phone in the kitchen all the time? :-\
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No, it was the other way around. The bedroom phone was a finger dial, the usual kitchen phone was a push button digital.
This is noted in the statement from BOUTTELL.
The photograph of the phone off the hook shows the finger dial bedroom phone.
I had thought it might be.And a good reason for the switch around is my previous post. Im surprised that the bedroom telephone was not temporarily replaced though. I guess it may have been and the killer moved/hid it,or the Bambers simply no longer wanted a telephone in their room anymore.
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Although why swap it over, rather than having the finger dial phone in the kitchen all the time? :-\
Maybe June just decided at the time the cordless one went off for repair? And maybe no longer wanted a phone in her bedroom any more as allegedly Sheila was prone to call her her father in the night and maybe it was disturbing her? She was said to be a light sleeper and was taking sleeping pills.The phone ringing in the middle of the night must have been an annoyance?
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Maybe June just decided at the time the cordless one went off for repair? And maybe no longer wanted a phone in her bedroom any more as allegedly Sheila was prone to call her her father in the night and maybe it was disturbing her? She was said to be a light sleeper and was taking sleeping pills.The phone ringing in the middle of the night must have been an annoyance?
If June didn't want a phone in the bedroom then after the storm broke that phone they would have told the telephone company not to replace the bedroom phone. Instead they had it replaced. They would have simply told the telephone company they didn't want to pay to rent the last phone anymore.
The cordless phone they got rid of completely. It broke and they replaced it but stilll wasn't working to the family's satisfaction and they decided not to try using it anymore so got rid of it as well as the slitter which had allowed 2 phones to be used in the kitchen.
If they still wanted 2 phones in the kitchen they could have kept the splitter and used the bedroom phone and kitchen phone there. Jeremy is obviously the one who moved the bedroom phone to the kitchen because he claimed it was moved there because the kitchen phone broke and later claimed the phone that was hidden was just an extra. Why would he lie and say it was just an extra phone unless he was trying to hide it was the phone he falsely claimed was broken?
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If June didn't want a phone in the bedroom then after the storm broke that phone they would have told the telephone company not to replace the bedroom phone. Instead they had it replaced. They would have simply told the telephone company they didn't want to pay to rent the last phone anymore.
The cordless phone they got rid of completely. It broke and they replaced it but stilll wasn't working to the family's satisfaction and they decided not to try using it anymore so got rid of it as well as the slitter which had allowed 2 phones to be used in the kitchen.
If they still wanted 2 phones in the kitchen they could have kept the splitter and used the bedroom phone and kitchen phone there. Jeremy is obviously the one who moved the bedroom phone to the kitchen because he claimed it was moved there because the kitchen phone broke and later claimed the phone that was hidden was just an extra. Why would he lie and say it was just an extra phone unless he was trying to hide it was the phone he falsely claimed was broken?
Most of your post is totally innacurate,but never mind.
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Most of your post is totally innacurate,but never mind.
What is inaccurate? The statements of those involved with servicing the phones and using them is what I went by.
Here is the phone company agent about the phones:
(http://s17.postimg.org/t46aoi0xb/btelecom.jpg)
(http://s13.postimg.org/6s51u15yf/btelecom2.jpg)
Here is the person who took the cordless phone away because they didn't want it anymore and he took the 2 way splitter as well so it was no longer possible to plug 2 phones in the kitchen, he noted the cream rotary phone normally in the bedroom was in the kitchen at the time he removed the cordless phone so it was moved to the kitchen prior to the murders
(http://s1.postimg.org/ogmzisean/corlessphone1.jpg)
(http://s10.postimg.org/ovps69r7d/cordlessphone2.jpg)
Here is where it is recounted that Jeremy lied and said the hidden phone was an extra phone though they never had an extra phone it was the phone normally kept in the kitchen and how he had previously claimed the bedroom phone was moved to the kitchen because the kitchen phone was broken
(http://s28.postimg.org/5mcog14q5/phonejb.jpg)
Barbara wilson
(http://s22.postimg.org/79z09tuqp/phonesbw.jpg)
So what seems rather obvious is that in anticipation of the murders Jeremy moved the bedroom phone to the kitchen and lied and stated the kitchen phone was broken and he hid it.
He continued to tell that lie to people after the murders including to Jean. Upon Jean finding the kitchen phone which he had hidden she tested it and found out it worked and then asked him why it was hidden. He told her it was just a spare phone not to worry about it. But she later thought about it and realized it was the kitchen phone which he had told her was broken.
Barbara also recognized it as the kitchen phone and she also tested it and found it working and chose to use it instead of the dial phone for the remainder of the time she worked at WHF.
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Those phones also served as " internal intercoms ". If someone downstairs wanted the person who was upstairs,they just lifted the receiver and depressed the button so that the upstairs phone would " tinkle ",prompting those who heard it to lift the receiver and speak.
You could always tell if a third party within,picked up the receiver to listen-in to the call,as you'd hear that tinkle as soon as the receiver was lifted or replaced.
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Those phones also served as " internal intercoms ". If someone downstairs wanted the person who was upstairs,they just lifted the receiver and depressed the button so that the upstairs phone would " tinkle ",prompting those who heard it to lift the receiver and speak.
You could always tell if a third party within,picked up the receiver to listen-in to the call,as you'd hear that tinkle as soon as the receiver was lifted or replaced.
That is simply not true.
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That is simply not true.
It wouldn't be in your eyes,would it ? ::) ( here we go )
In the mid-80's,we had such a system with 4/5 phones on the same link and they operated as I've just explained.
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When you have phones which are interconnected like that,of course you can listen in to calls if you're that way inclined,of course you can connect yourself to another member of the household if using separate rooms. There is only one line going into the property feeding x amount of phones.What you can't do is dial out if someone happens to be using the phone at the time.
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Peter Eaton said Sheila was 'definitely frightened of guns'. He had never seen her use a gun.
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Jeremy was non too keen on guns either,unlike his cousin AP and also AE,who were masters at their game. Sheila had more guts than Jeremy.She was the one who used to stick up for him if her brother was being bullied---------------remember ? Or like others,you choose to forget these little snippets from their childhood days ?
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Anthony Pargeter said he had never seen Sheila fire a gun.
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Anthony Pargeter said he had never seen Sheila fire a gun.
Excuse me.Have you seen the contradictory statements he made ? Have you seen where DB and AP finally had to admit having seen Sheila handle a gun ?
Start looking at statements,etc in the archives and stop repeating unnecessary drivel.
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It wouldn't be in your eyes,would it ? ::) ( here we go )
In the mid-80's,we had such a system with 4/5 phones on the same link and they operated as I've just explained.
It is simply not true that such a system operated in that way at WHF.
I don't think I could be any clearer on that.
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It is simply not true that such a system operated in that way at WHF.
I don't think I could be any clearer on that.
Okay,then explain your version,then I can pick holes in it.
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Excuse me.Have you seen the contradictory statements he made ? Have you seen where DB and AP finally had to admit having seen Sheila handle a gun ?
Start looking at statements,etc in the archives and stop repeating unnecessary drivel.
I am looking at the archives. AP agreeing with Jeremy who testified Sheila had 'limited experience with guns'.
Show me the source where he says this. Or stop posting unnecessary drivel.
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Peter Eaton also said Sheila had no interest in guns.
Frightened, no interest, limited experience, never used.
Neville and June must have really upset her in the 'alleged' conversation about fostering. She must have got out a manual prior to re loading.
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Okay,then explain your version,then I can pick holes in it.
Version of what? ???
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Version of what? ???
Of how the phones worked at WHF ::) Seeing that you know everything.
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Of how the phones worked at WHF ::) Seeing that you know everything.
There was a single line in to WHF, all phones were usually connected to the single line (although obviously not on the night of the murders).
They could each be used to dial out, but not at the same time. If a call was in progress on one phone, then another phone could be picked up and would be connected to the conversation.
If a phone was off the hook and the dialing tone had ceased, then all other phones in the house would be blocked from making or receiving calls.
There was no extension system, you could not dial a phone in the house, from another phone in the house.
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There was a single line in to WHF, all phones were usually connected to the single line (although obviously not on the night of the murders).
They could each be used to dial out, but not at the same time. If a call was in progress on one phone, then another phone could be picked up and would be connected to the conversation.
If a phone was off the hook and the dialing tone had ceased, then all other phones in the house would be blocked from making or receiving calls.
There was no extension system, you could not dial a phone in the house, from another phone in the house.
This is EXACTLY what I said,except that the wording is different.
One thing I didn't say was that you had to " dial " another person in the household in order to be in touch with them. You don't dial at all...All that was needed was a couple of depressions on the active button to summon anyone in the household providing they weren't already in conversation via the normal channels of dialling. This IS done when there's only one line leading to a property where you have 4/5 phones. Obviously,the signal was weaker the more phones you had connected.
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This is EXACTLY what I said,except that the wording is different.
One thing I didn't say was that you had to " dial " another person in the household in order to be in touch with them. You don't dial at all...All that was needed was a couple of depressions on the active button to summon anyone in the household providing they weren't already in conversation via the normal channels of dialling. This IS done when there's only one line leading to a property where you have 4/5 phones. Obviously,the signal was weaker the more phones you had connected.
As I said, that is simply not true.
You could not make internal phone calls.
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As I said, that is simply not true.
You could not make internal phone calls.
You obviously don't understand what I'm saying. You DON'T make internal calls as such.It acts as an intercom as soon as you hear a tinkle,caused by lightly pressing the metal active button. If you're able to listen in to a call from anywhere within the property,then you can also pick up a receiver which automatically activates ALL phones ( being on the one line ) then you can speak to another member of that household. NO dialling is needed.
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There was a single line in to WHF, all phones were usually connected to the single line (although obviously not on the night of the murders).
They could each be used to dial out, but not at the same time. If a call was in progress on one phone, then another phone could be picked up and would be connected to the conversation.
If a phone was off the hook and the dialing tone had ceased, then all other phones in the house would be blocked from making or receiving calls.
There was no extension system, you could not dial a phone in the house, from another phone in the house.
So in effect all phones in the house were disconnected except the itchen phone that should have been upstairs in the main bedroom?
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Hello lookout think I grasp what you are saying I also grasp what harters is saying. I will try and explain what I think without confusing the issue :'( If you were in the kitchen at WHF and I was in the bedroom you picked up the handset and I may hear a click not a tinkle and I would pick up the handset and say hello can I help you ;D Don't think the system was designed to act as an intercom system :'(
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You obviously don't understand what I'm saying. You DON'T make internal calls as such.It acts as an intercom as soon as you hear a tinkle,caused by lightly pressing the metal active button. If you're able to listen in to a call from anywhere within the property,then you can also pick up a receiver which automatically activates ALL phones ( being on the one line ) then you can speak to another member of that household. NO dialling is needed.
I understand exactly what you are saying and I am telling you that you are mistaken.
The only way two internal phones could be connected to each other, is if an external call was also live. If the external caller disconnected, then the two (or more) internal phones would not remain connected to each other.
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A for instance was when the family lived in a 3xstorey house,we had 5 phones in all which were added by a friend who worked for BT.All on the same line.
I was upstairs,3rd floor,cleaning the phone and as I lifted the receiver,my late husband who was downstairs,picked up the phone and asked me if I needed anything as he'd heard the phone tinkle. No,I said,I was just cleaning it.
It was a Godsend when he was ill in bed because he'd use the phone in his bedroom to call down if he needed assistance. You only had to lift the receiver off its cradle,without any dialling,in order to speak to someone within the home. This is what you CAN do with multiple phones in the home and just one line coming in.
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A for instance was when the family lived in a 3xstorey house,we had 5 phones in all which were added by a friend who worked for BT.All on the same line.
I was upstairs,3rd floor,cleaning the phone and as I lifted the receiver,my late husband who was downstairs,picked up the phone and asked me if I needed anything as he'd heard the phone tinkle. No,I said,I was just cleaning it.
It was a Godsend when he was ill in bed because he'd use the phone in his bedroom to call down if he needed assistance. You only had to lift the receiver off its cradle,without any dialling,in order to speak to someone within the home. This is what you CAN do with multiple phones in the home and just one line coming in.
It doesn't matter how a system worked elsewhere.
That was not the case at WHF.
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It doesn't matter how a system worked elsewhere.
That was not the case at WHF.
Well there's only one way to find out. That's another question I'll ask Jeremy.
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Well there's only one way to find out. That's another question I'll ask Jeremy.
The other way is ......... I've just told you.
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A for instance was when the family lived in a 3xstorey house,we had 5 phones in all which were added by a friend who worked for BT.All on the same line.
I was upstairs,3rd floor,cleaning the phone and as I lifted the receiver,my late husband who was downstairs,picked up the phone and asked me if I needed anything as he'd heard the phone tinkle. No,I said,I was just cleaning it.
It was a Godsend when he was ill in bed because he'd use the phone in his bedroom to call down if he needed assistance. You only had to lift the receiver off its cradle,without any dialling,in order to speak to someone within the home. This is what you CAN do with multiple phones in the home and just one line coming in.
I once worked for someone who had his business premises below his living premises. If a call came through for him when he was in his apartment the phone there didn't ring. It required that a button was pressed on the downstairs phone, which he would then answer and make the decision as to whether or not he wanted the call put through. Once it was, a light flashed until the call was ended. At night all calls were, by pressing the necessary button, transferred to his apartment. Whilst the system was available, MOST private residences DIDN'T have it in place.
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I once worked for someone who had his business premises below his living premises. If a call came through for him when he was in his apartment the phone there didn't ring. It required that a button was pressed on the downstairs phone, which he would then answer and make the decision as to whether or not he wanted the call put through. Once it was, a light flashed until the call was ended. At night all calls were, by pressing the necessary button, transferred to his apartment. Whilst the system was available, MOST private residences DIDN'T have it in place.
Don't remind me of those awful exchange box things small company's had with various extensions. You had to press a lever up or down or whatever to put calls through or more often cut them off. Could never work them :'(, could never have been a receptionist, total nightmare :'( :'(
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Don't remind me of those awful exchange box things small company's had with various extensions. You had to press a lever up or down or whatever to put calls through or more often cut them off. Could never work them :'(, could never have been a receptionist, total nightmare :'( :'(
I imagine that they were probably designed for and used by small businesses. Lookout DID say that "a friend who worked for BT" had installed theirs. A question of who one knows,perhaps?