Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on April 11, 2011, 03:33:AM
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It begs the question, why doesn't the detail that is written in PI 'Bob' Millers notebook, that deals with the position of SC and RB's bodys, not equate with the position of those bodies, as shown in PC Birds (SOC) crime scene pictures...
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will you be having access to this notebok mike? have you already seen it?
will you post the important bits on here?
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will you be having access to this notebok mike? have you already seen it?
will you post the important bits on here?
... Yes, I will be making the contents of PI 'Bob' Millers, notebook, which refers to these matters - I have copies in my possession...
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excellent, look forwrd to it.
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
If you can't believe anything Ep said about the position of the bodies, then how can you rely on any of EP's claims about this case full stop? Explain to me please, how the word of police officers who, on your own admission, can't be believed, can be relied on.
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs
and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman
which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man
that was reported by the operator that i male and female
but she should have cancelled the female at the time
as it was the same person but she didn't know,
that's why she logged one dead male and female.
Hope that clears things up for you!
--------------------------------------------------
Is this a wind?
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
It seems to have taken them a long time to correct their little error, considering they called for the coronor, in relation to (1) a murder... and (2) a suicide. Also, how would you explain the later message that came through concerning the search of house having been completed and 'a further three bodies found'. That's two bodies found on entry, a further three bodies found on completing the search. In your version, would it not be one body found on entry and a further four bodies found on completion of search? And where does the description of suicide come from? Do you mean police thought that RNB had been murdered but also committed suicide simultaneously? (not to mention swapping sex)
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs
and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman
which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man
that was reported by the operator that i male and female
but she should have cancelled the female at the time
as it was the same person but she didn't know,
that's why she logged one dead male and female.
Hope that clears things up for you!
--------------------------------------------------
Is this a wind?
No they are your lovely facts TB, just look under the 2002 judgement of his last rejected appeal. :) ;) :D
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
It seems to have taken them a long time to correct their little error, considering they called for the coronor, in relation to (1) a murder... and (2) a suicide. Also, how would you explain the later message that came through concerning the search of house having been completed and 'a further three bodies found'. That's two bodies found on entry, a further three bodies found on completing the search. In your version, would it not be one body found on entry and a further four bodies found on completion of search? And where does the description of suicide come from? Do you mean police thought that RNB had been murdered but also committed suicide simultaneously? (not to mention swapping sex)
This has all been proved in court from the 2002 appeal that it was only one dead male, like the so called Ralphs call so why keep going over old ground
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
It seems to have taken them a long time to correct their little error, considering they called for the coronor, in relation to (1) a murder... and (2) a suicide. Also, how would you explain the later message that came through concerning the search of house having been completed and 'a further three bodies found'. That's two bodies found on entry, a further three bodies found on completing the search. In your version, would it not be one body found on entry and a further four bodies found on completion of search? And where does the description of suicide come from? Do you mean police thought that RNB had been murdered but also committed suicide simultaneously? (not to mention swapping sex)
This has all been proved in court from the 2002 appeal that it was only one dead male, like the so called Ralphs call so why keep going over old ground
With due respect. The appeal judges may have bought Essex Police's reasoning but I'm afraid I cant. You cant have two bodies found on entry then a further three bodies found upon completion of search, miraculously changing in to an alternative 1/4 ratio. You cant have a murder and a suicide called in on the logs, before the further three bodies have even been found on completion (unless SC is found upon entry).
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs
and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman
which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man
that was reported by the operator that i male and female
but she should have cancelled the female at the time
as it was the same person but she didn't know,
that's why she logged one dead male and female.
Hope that clears things up for you!
--------------------------------------------------
Is this a wind?
No they are your lovely facts TB, just look under the 2002 judgement of his last rejected appeal. :) ;) :D
Oh, forgive me, I must have missed the section of the 2002 Judgement where the following sparkling jem of legal logic is reported:
"that was reported by the operator that i male and female"
If you're correct and this is a fact from the 2002 Judgment, you'll be able to post a link to it, Richard.
Go ahead, post it.
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
It seems to have taken them a long time to correct their little error, considering they called for the coronor, in relation to (1) a murder... and (2) a suicide. Also, how would you explain the later message that came through concerning the search of house having been completed and 'a further three bodies found'. That's two bodies found on entry, a further three bodies found on completing the search. In your version, would it not be one body found on entry and a further four bodies found on completion of search? And where does the description of suicide come from? Do you mean police thought that RNB had been murdered but also committed suicide simultaneously? (not to mention swapping sex)
This has all been proved in court from the 2002 appeal that it was only one dead male, like the so called Ralphs call so why keep going over old ground
With due respect. The appeal judges may have bought Essex Police's reasoning but I'm afraid I cant. You cant have two bodies found on entry then a further three bodies found upon completion of search, miraculously changing in to an alternative 1/4 ratio. You cant have a murder and a suicide called in on the logs, before the further three bodies have even been found on completion (unless SC is found upon entry).
Well said, Rocky!
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
It seems to have taken them a long time to correct their little error, considering they called for the coronor, in relation to (1) a murder... and (2) a suicide. Also, how would you explain the later message that came through concerning the search of house having been completed and 'a further three bodies found'. That's two bodies found on entry, a further three bodies found on completing the search. In your version, would it not be one body found on entry and a further four bodies found on completion of search? And where does the description of suicide come from? Do you mean police thought that RNB had been murdered but also committed suicide simultaneously? (not to mention swapping sex)
This has all been proved in court from the 2002 appeal that it was only one dead male, like the so called Ralphs call so why keep going over old ground
With due respect. The appeal judges may have bought Essex Police's reasoning but I'm afraid I cant. You cant have two bodies found on entry then a further three bodies found upon completion of search, miraculously changing in to an alternative 1/4 ratio. You cant have a murder and a suicide called in on the logs, before the further three bodies have even been found on completion (unless SC is found upon entry).
Well said, Rocky!
You can't which is fair enough but where it counts infront of the judges who have all the evidence it does, This is why he's still locked away i'm afraid for you and those are facts not hearsay. ;)
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
It seems to have taken them a long time to correct their little error, considering they called for the coronor, in relation to (1) a murder... and (2) a suicide. Also, how would you explain the later message that came through concerning the search of house having been completed and 'a further three bodies found'. That's two bodies found on entry, a further three bodies found on completing the search. In your version, would it not be one body found on entry and a further four bodies found on completion of search? And where does the description of suicide come from? Do you mean police thought that RNB had been murdered but also committed suicide simultaneously? (not to mention swapping sex)
This has all been proved in court from the 2002 appeal that it was only one dead male, like the so called Ralphs call so why keep going over old ground
With due respect. The appeal judges may have bought Essex Police's reasoning but I'm afraid I cant. You cant have two bodies found on entry then a further three bodies found upon completion of search, miraculously changing in to an alternative 1/4 ratio. You cant have a murder and a suicide called in on the logs, before the further three bodies have even been found on completion (unless SC is found upon entry).
Well said, Rocky!
You can't which is fair enough but where it counts infront of the judges who have all the evidence it does, This is why he's still locked away i'm afraid for you and those are facts not hearsay. ;)
I see what you mean. And it appears you see what I mean also. I think this one is a stalemate 8)
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
It seems to have taken them a long time to correct their little error, considering they called for the coronor, in relation to (1) a murder... and (2) a suicide. Also, how would you explain the later message that came through concerning the search of house having been completed and 'a further three bodies found'. That's two bodies found on entry, a further three bodies found on completing the search. In your version, would it not be one body found on entry and a further four bodies found on completion of search? And where does the description of suicide come from? Do you mean police thought that RNB had been murdered but also committed suicide simultaneously? (not to mention swapping sex)
This has all been proved in court from the 2002 appeal that it was only one dead male, like the so called Ralphs call so why keep going over old ground
With due respect. The appeal judges may have bought Essex Police's reasoning but I'm afraid I cant. You cant have two bodies found on entry then a further three bodies found upon completion of search, miraculously changing in to an alternative 1/4 ratio. You cant have a murder and a suicide called in on the logs, before the further three bodies have even been found on completion (unless SC is found upon entry).
Well said, Rocky!
;)
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs
and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman
which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man
that was reported by the operator that i male and female
but she should have cancelled the female at the time
as it was the same person but she didn't know,
that's why she logged one dead male and female.
Hope that clears things up for you!
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No they are your lovely facts TB, just look under the 2002 judgement of his last rejected appeal. :) ;) :D
Also, Richard, why do you call me TB? I'm sure I've seen you call others TB too. Do you seriously believe that I am TB, or is this another of your unique semantic slips?
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs
and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman
which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man
that was reported by the operator that i male and female
but she should have cancelled the female at the time
as it was the same person but she didn't know,
that's why she logged one dead male and female.
Hope that clears things up for you!
--------------------------------------------------
No they are your lovely facts TB, just look under the 2002 judgement of his last rejected appeal. :) ;) :D
Also, Richard, why do you call me TB? I'm sure I've seen you call others TB too. Do you seriously believe that I am TB, or is this another of your unique semantic slips?
what does TB stand for do you know and if so sure he is innocent why is he still banged up?
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs
and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman
which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man
that was reported by the operator that i male and female
but she should have cancelled the female at the time
as it was the same person but she didn't know,
that's why she logged one dead male and female.
Hope that clears things up for you!
--------------------------------------------------
No they are your lovely facts TB, just look under the 2002 judgement of his last rejected appeal. :) ;) :D
Also, Richard, why do you call me TB? I'm sure I've seen you call others TB too. Do you seriously believe that I am TB, or is this another of your unique semantic slips?
i don't know why you quetion these facts cause if you knew all about the case you would see the 2 bodies in kitchen etc was wrong, if you think he's so innocent look at the whole picture :)
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs
and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman
which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man
that was reported by the operator that i male and female
but she should have cancelled the female at the time
as it was the same person but she didn't know,
that's why she logged one dead male and female.
Hope that clears things up for you!
--------------------------------------------------
No they are your lovely facts TB, just look under the 2002 judgement of his last rejected appeal. :) ;) :D
Also, Richard, why do you call me TB? I'm sure I've seen you call others TB too. Do you seriously believe that I am TB, or is this another of your unique semantic slips?
what does TB stand for do you know and if so sure he is innocent why is he still banged up?
Are you prepared to let us know the identity of "TB"? It may not be important but I am confused.
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs
and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman
which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man
that was reported by the operator that i male and female
but she should have cancelled the female at the time
as it was the same person but she didn't know,
that's why she logged one dead male and female.
Hope that clears things up for you!
--------------------------------------------------
No they are your lovely facts TB, just look under the 2002 judgement of his last rejected appeal. :) ;) :D
Also, Richard, why do you call me TB? I'm sure I've seen you call others TB too. Do you seriously believe that I am TB, or is this another of your unique semantic slips?
what does TB stand for do you know and if so sure he is innocent why is he still banged up?
The only reason Richard is calling you TB is because he believes you are someone else who is on Facebook. Yes that same facebook he/she professes not to be on because they have a life. You slipped up there didn't you "Richard". ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
richard lee, do you post on the facebook guilty page?
no sorry i dont use facebook i have a life
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
I've also considered that, and I think the explanation is a reasonable one.
This business about "three further bodies" is a bit strange though. I guess if whoever was writing the log thought that two bodies were downstairs, and then they were told there were five bodies altogether, they might have assumed there were three upstairs, but even so it's a bit odd.
I think the logs need to be examined properly, and we need to know who wrote them and where they were written because there seem to be a few different ones floating around.
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Kaldin,I am so glad you brought this subject up.A mistake being made regarding 2 bodies in the kitchen........ok,well I can buy that.But then the TFU radio in 3 further bodies found upstairs.Another mistake? I dont think so.These are highly trained officers!
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Kaldin,I am so glad you brought this subject up.A mistake being made regarding 2 bodies in the kitchen........ok,well I can buy that.But then the TFU radio in 3 further bodies found upstairs.Another mistake? I dont think so.These are highly trained officers!
...Let us also not forget, that there was a very large bloodstain on the reverse of Shiela's nightdress that was not replicated on the bedroom carpet underneath where her body was photographed - so, where else could her body have been laid in blood?
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs
and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman
which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man
that was reported by the operator that i male and female
but she should have cancelled the female at the time
as it was the same person but she didn't know,
that's why she logged one dead male and female.
Hope that clears things up for you!
--------------------------------------------------
No they are your lovely facts TB, just look under the 2002 judgement of his last rejected appeal. :) ;) :D
Also, Richard, why do you call me TB? I'm sure I've seen you call others TB too. Do you seriously believe that I am TB, or is this another of your unique semantic slips?
what does TB stand for do you know and if so sure he is innocent why is he still banged up?
The only reason Richard is calling you TB is because he believes you are someone else who is on Facebook. Yes that same facebook he/she professes not to be on because they have a life. You slipped up there didn't you "Richard". ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
richard lee, do you post on the facebook guilty page?
no sorry i dont use facebook i have a life
It's ok Grahame I think 'Mr' Lee thinks everyone's Me! it's a terrible thing is paranoia! You see I post under my own initials/name as I do on Facebook also, The name is Brazier, Tracy Brazier ???
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Kaldin,I am so glad you brought this subject up.A mistake being made regarding 2 bodies in the kitchen........ok,well I can buy that.But then the TFU radio in 3 further bodies found upstairs.Another mistake? I dont think so.These are highly trained officers!
I agree, but I'm wondering if the TFU did actually radio that in or whether the person keeping the log misunderstood what was going on. That's why the logs need to be looked at again and it needs to be established who was writing them and where they were getting their information from - ie, whether it was first hand or second hand information.
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Kaldin,I am so glad you brought this subject up.A mistake being made regarding 2 bodies in the kitchen........ok,well I can buy that.But then the TFU radio in 3 further bodies found upstairs.Another mistake? I dont think so.These are highly trained officers!
...Let us also not forget, that there was a very large bloodstain on the reverse of Shiela's nightdress that was not replicated on the bedroom carpet underneath where her body was photographed - so, where else could her body have been laid in blood?
Mike I have thought long and hard about this too.Where DID the blood come from on the back of her nightdress? But the thing is,in the photographs we cannot see what is underneath Sheila.
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Mike, by your reckoning, wouldn't the blood either be on the kitchen floor, or on Ralph and June's bed?
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I do not want to offend so excuse me. I thought that Ralphs pyjama trousers were round his ankles.
Even a nun would have reckonised this as a male yet this highly trained officer said he saw a dead female through the window.
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Kaldin,I am so glad you brought this subject up.A mistake being made regarding 2 bodies in the kitchen........ok,well I can buy that.But then the TFU radio in 3 further bodies found upstairs.Another mistake? I dont think so.These are highly trained officers!
I agree, but I'm wondering if the TFU did actually radio that in or whether the person keeping the log misunderstood what was going on. That's why the logs need to be looked at again and it needs to be established who was writing them and where they were getting their information from - ie, whether it was first hand or second hand information.
But I dont think that wouldn't explain 'a murder and a suicide'.
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I do not want to offend so excuse me. I thought that Ralphs pyjama trousers were round his ankles.
Even a nun would have reckonised this as a male yet this highly trained officer said he saw a dead female through the window.
That depends on how much the officer could see. Perhaps he only saw Nevill's hair or something.
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If it was pubic he would have known. On the other hand I am informed it shrinks with age. Blast I have got nothing to look forward to now.
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If it was pubic he would have known. On the other hand I am informed it shrinks with age. Blast I have got nothing to look forward to now.
Cliff!!
If Nevill was truly first found in the position in which we have seen him, he was bent over forwards, therefore the only hair to be seen was that of his head.
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point taken. Thanks.
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Just a thought if they could see the head, how come they said it was a female.
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We're going round in circles here!
The initial police log states that, on entry, one female and one male were found in kitchen.
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Just a thought if they could see the head, how come they said it was a female.
Nevill had quite a lot of hair.
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Kaldin,I am so glad you brought this subject up.A mistake being made regarding 2 bodies in the kitchen........ok,well I can buy that.But then the TFU radio in 3 further bodies found upstairs.Another mistake? I dont think so.These are highly trained officers!
I agree, but I'm wondering if the TFU did actually radio that in or whether the person keeping the log misunderstood what was going on. That's why the logs need to be looked at again and it needs to be established who was writing them and where they were getting their information from - ie, whether it was first hand or second hand information.
But I dont think that wouldn't explain 'a murder and a suicide'.
I agree.Dont get me wrong,I am not interested in wild theories or speculation or even playing around with the evidence to suit myself.Fair enough,the police mistakenly reported 2 dead bodies in the kitchen.Turned out to be just one body after-all.The body of Ralph Bamber.He couldnt possibly have been murdered AND commited suicide.Why the call for 2 ambulances?That isnt standard procedure.One for immediate use and one for on standby.And yet these police officers state that they stood outside the farmhouse for around 3 hours with no movement or noise within? The information needed to explain all these discrepencies are being witheld under pii.Surely we have to ask ourselves why?
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From what I have seen we cannot believe anything that has been said about the position of the bodies.
First we are told that there were two bodies lying on the floor downstairs and then later when the investigating officer and others go into the house the female had disappeared apparently upstairs.
Then we have different photos showing the rifle in differing positions on Sheila's body and another showing it leaning against the bedroom wall. A really expert piece of investigating that is.
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man that was reported by the operator that i male and female but she should have cancelled the female at the time as it was the same person but she didn't know, that's why she logged one dead male and female. Hope that clears things up for you!
there was only one dead body in the kitchen which was Ralphs
and was mistakenly seen outside the window for a woman
which was reported to the operator and then when found it was a man
that was reported by the operator that i male and female
but she should have cancelled the female at the time
as it was the same person but she didn't know,
that's why she logged one dead male and female.
Hope that clears things up for you!
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No they are your lovely facts TB, just look under the 2002 judgement of his last rejected appeal. :) ;) :D
Also, Richard, why do you call me TB? I'm sure I've seen you call others TB too. Do you seriously believe that I am TB, or is this another of your unique semantic slips?
what does TB stand for do you know and if so sure he is innocent why is he still banged up?
Of course I know what TB stands for, but that wasn't what I asked you. My question was: why do you keep calling me TB when I am not? For goodness sake, Richard, I'm female.
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Help me out Choch, unless it's too hurtful - what does TB mean?
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Help me out Choch, unless it's too hurtful - what does TB mean?
It's Tracey Bezier or somebody, not sure really, she seems busy on Facebook apparently.
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Any chance of seeing this notebook Mike?
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Hi Everyone - I realise that this is an old thread but I've been reading over a lot of these old threads lately to try to get a better understanding of the case.
In this thread Mike states that he has copies of Bob Millers's notebook confirming several issues and will post these. Could anyone please tell me where they are?
Thanks. :)
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Hi Everyone - I realise that this is an old thread but I've been reading over a lot of these old threads lately to try to get a better understanding of the case.
In this thread Mike states that he has copies of Bob Millers's notebook confirming several issues and will post these. Could anyone please tell me where they are?
Thanks. :)
There's not much, but see this thread.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,555
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Thank you Gillian for resurrecting this antient Egyptian thread. It reminds me that we never have seen Bob Miller's notebook that Mike said he would post? Even the papyrus version would be helpful.
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Thank you Gillian for resurrecting this antient Egyptian thread. It reminds me that we never have seen Bob Miller's notebook that Mike said he would post? Even the papyrus version would be helpful.
Which I did post:-
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Hahahahaha,Grahame/Bloggs. Oh dear. It'll appear when Nelson gets his eye back.
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Thank you Gillian for resurrecting this antient Egyptian thread. It reminds me that we never have seen Bob Miller's notebook that Mike said he would post? Even the papyrus version would be helpful.
To be fair to Mike, see my post and the link immediately before your post above.
I think Mike get's enough stick already without having a go for something he has already posted.
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Which I did post:-
Whilst on this subject, PI Miller counter signed DS "Stan" Jones, dodgy pocketbook (the one with three different start dates on the front cover) so, no-one should be left in any doubt about the lengths Miller was prepared to go to, and whilst on the subject of Millers role in this cover up, or whatever you want to call it, it was Miller who drafted up all the insertions that various witnesses needed to insert into various statements, relating to many exhibit5s, including the silencer, and what have you...
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Considering that PI "Bob" Miller checked the pocketbook of DS "Stan" Jones, he should have at least noticed that it had three different start dates on its front cover ( 5th November 1984, 4th April 1985 and 5th April 1985) covering several months, yet Miller did nothing, he let Jones falsify his notes to assist with the cover up, relating to the silencer...
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Lets just see how much tinkering PI "Bob" Miller and the other prosecution witnesses all got up to, so that they could merge the two different silencers found at the scene, into the same one under a third (invented) exhibit reference of DRB/1:-
Peter Eaton - 14th November 1985, DRB/1 to be inserted on end of statement
S. B. Jones - page 7, DRB/1 to be inserted
Glynis Howard - DB/1 to DRB/1
John Hayward - DB/1 to DRB/1
Elliot - DB/1 to DRB/1
Fletcher - DB/1 to DRB/1
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Lets just see how much tinkering PI "Bob" Miller and the other prosecution witnesses all got up to, so that they could merge the two different silencers found at the scene, into the same one under a third (invented) exhibit reference of DRB/1:-
Peter Eaton - 14th November 1985, DRB/1 to be inserted on end of statement
S. B. Jones - page 7, DRB/1 to be inserted
Glynis Howard - DB/1 to DRB/1
John Hayward - DB/1 to DRB/1
Elliot - DB/1 to DRB/1
Fletcher - DB/1 to DRB/1
Dodgy witnesses, fabricating evidence relating to a dodgy silencer, which was needed to support the prosecutions case to try and convict Jeremy for these murders, Miller, Jones, Eaton, Hayward, Elliot and Fletcher, all conspirators, no doubt about it...
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Hi Hartley, Grahame and Mike - Thanks so much for this. I will have a thorough read of it.
Can someone confirm if this is the policeman that appears in interviews, wears glasses and was one of the officers with JB who saw the figure in the upstairs window but then changed his mind and said it was the light or something like that. Sorry about this but I am just trying to put names to faces. :)
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Hi Hartley, Grahame and Mike - Thanks so much for this. I will have a thorough read of it.
Can someone confirm if this is the policeman that appears in interviews, wears glasses and was one of the officers with JB who saw the figure in the upstairs window but then changed his mind and said it was the light or something like that. Sorry about this but I am just trying to put names to faces. :)
It was Bews and Myall who were with JB when infamous movement/trick of light incident occured.
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Hi Hartley, Grahame and Mike - Thanks so much for this. I will have a thorough read of it.
Can someone confirm if this is the policeman that appears in interviews, wears glasses and was one of the officers with JB who saw the figure in the upstairs window but then changed his mind and said it was the light or something like that. Sorry about this but I am just trying to put names to faces. :)
Hi gillian I believe you are thinking of Bews he is the one who is always interviewed.
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Hi Hartley and Maggie - Thanks for that. I don't think I'm ever going to understand this case but will continue trying!!! :)
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Hi Hartley and Maggie - Thanks for that. I don't think I'm ever going to understand this case but will continue trying!!! :)
I am sure Bews slips up in one of his interviews and states it was another person who saw the shadow at the window....I will find it...and have another listen, for I don't want to say things that might be false...lololol...:))
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I am sure Bews slips up in one of his interviews and states it was another person who saw the shadow at the window....I will find it...and have another listen, for I don't want to say things that might be false...lololol...:))
He has been inconsistent about this. In the most recent ITV documentary he claimed that it was Jeremy who first saw the movement in the window.
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He has been inconsistent about this. In the most recent ITV documentary he claimed that it was Jeremy who first saw the movement in the window.
Bews always looks so uncomfortable when he's saying his party piece.
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He has been inconsistent about this. In the most recent ITV documentary he claimed that it was Jeremy who first saw the movement in the window.
Although he has always been consistent in saying that it was a trick of light which could be replicated.
Perhaps if we could see his statement it be something else gauge any inconsistencies against. :-\
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Hi Patti,,,I've read somewhere that three officers were " spooked " by the supposed " shadow " in the window. So much so,that they,along with Jeremy,ducked behind a bush.
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Hi Patti,,,I've read somewhere that three officers were " spooked " by the supposed " shadow " in the window. So much so,that they,along with Jeremy,ducked behind a bush.
This is Bews saying it was Steve who saw movement in the house...NOT Jeremy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EDp_tqUysI
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Hi Patti,,,I've read somewhere that three officers were " spooked " by the supposed " shadow " in the window. So much so,that they,along with Jeremy,ducked behind a bush.
Hi lookout it does seem unlikely that three grown men, two coppers and a convicted murderer would all be spooked by a trick of the light. You would suspect it may have been something rather more substantial. (Sorry to butt in Patti/lookout). :)
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Although he has always been consistent in saying that it was a trick of light which could be replicated.
Perhaps if we could see his statement it be something else gauge any inconsistencies against. :-\
Bews apparently pissed his pants when they all saw the figure at the bedroom window, and he was the first of the three to run off back to the patrol car (Jeremy told me this himself) and recount to PS Saxby what they had all just seen, which in turn was relayed back to the control room with a request that the firearms team should be deployed because the person they had just seen could be armed with a weapon...
Now...
Which witness statement would you most like to see, the one made for him by the DPP, or the one edited to miss out the sighting of the figure at the bedroom window?
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Which I did post:-
Oh thanks Mike. Didn't see that. ;D
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To be fair to Mike, see my post and the link immediately before your post above.
I think Mike get's enough stick already without having a go for something he has already posted.
I did, but I still saw no ships? ;D
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Is it possible to know if there was a full moon that night?
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Now...
Which witness statement would you most like to see, the one made for him by the DPP, or the one edited to miss out the sighting of the figure at the bedroom window?
It is all sooooo depressing Mike. :(
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Is it possible to know if there was a full moon that night?
Funnily enough, I just looked that up. The moon was in its last quarter phase from what I can tell.
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Hold on hold on my son. I can't even read chinese even with my telescope. Does he say in those notes that he saw Sheila and June on the bed? Which was the whole point of me asking really.
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I don't think there was. Check this out> http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/fullmoon.htm
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Funnily enough, I just looked that up. The moon was in its last quarter phase from what I can tell.
I have read that the moon was the other sidde of the house, so there wouldn't have been moonlight as such but can't remember where. I have also read in one statement that all the lights were on in the house in another just a few were on so it's really difficult to get a clear picture.
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So we have PC Bews telling us that is was Steve who saw someone at the window and then Bews goes onto say it was the moonlight....
There was no moonlight that night
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/fullmoon.htm
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So we have PC Bews telling us that is was Steve who saw someone at the window and then Bews goes onto say it was the moonlight....
There was no moonlight that night
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/fullmoon.htm
It doesn't have to be a full moon for there to be moonlight.
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It doesn't have to be a full moon for there to be moonlight.
Even if there was moonlight I am sure that side of the house was hidden from the moon and was in shadow. I have read it.
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Funnily enough, I just looked that up. The moon was in its last quarter phase from what I can tell.
That was in the 8th though Bridget...not sure how it works?
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That was in the 8th though Bridget...not sure how it works?
Gradually. The 6th / 7th wouldn't have looked any different. The moon rose at about 11pm and set about 1pm the following day, no idea how to work out where it would be in relation to the house.
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Gradually. The 6th / 7th wouldn't have looked any different. The moon rose at about 11pm and set about 1pm the following day, no idea how to work out where it would be in relation to the house.
We we know there was no full moon; we also know that on the 8th there was a last quarter moon, but nothing shows up for the 7th....If there was a last quarter for the 7th it would say surely....We need an expert to tell us what was showing that night along with weather conditions such as cloud etc....lolol :)
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This is Bews saying it was Steve who saw movement in the house...NOT Jeremy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EDp_tqUysI
Yes, and Bews says that "Steve" spotted movement at a window top right of the building, whereas, the main bedroom was / is top left:-
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Gradually. The 6th / 7th wouldn't have looked any different. The moon rose at about 11pm and set about 1pm the following day, no idea how to work out where it would be in relation to the house.
Bridget I have seen it mentioned somewhere, will have to search and see if I can find it don't know if I will have time at moment but I remember first time I heard bewsey say about the moonlight I remembered I had read the moon was the other side of the house. Maybe it was a statement.
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Even if there was moonlight I am sure that side of the house was hidden from the moon and was in shadow. I have read it.
Hi maggie apparently towards early morning the moon goes high a bit like the sun towards the end of summer....I can't find any data saying there was a moon that night...apart from the 8th and the full moon on the 30th.....It takes 4 weeks for the moon to appear.
If there was no moon, then his description on that night is incorrect....lolol I will delve into things...:)
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We we know there was no full moon; we also know that on the 8th there was a last quarter moon, but nothing shows up for the 7th....If there was a last quarter for the 7th it would say surely....We need an expert to tell us what was showing that night along with weather conditions such as cloud etc....lolol :)
The moon takes a month to go through its phases from new, though first quarter to full, then through last quarter to waning, then back to new. They record the quarters etc, but not all the fractions in between. That doesn't mean there is no moon.
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Gradually. The 6th / 7th wouldn't have looked any different. The moon rose at about 11pm and set about 1pm the following day, no idea how to work out where it would be in relation to the house.
Bridget I am reading the last phrase is new and it immediately goes...so would not be there on the 7th or the 9th......It's very confusing. But will look into it a bit more. :)
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Bridget and Patti Beware of a full moon aliens may appear. ;D ;D ;D
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Bridget I am reading the last phrase is new and it immediately goes...so would not be there on the 7th or the 9th......It's very confusing. But will look into it a bit more. :)
Lol no, it doesn't 'go'. It's all to do with how much of it is in the shade. Very much simplified, on the new moon it's completely in the shade do you can't see it. It then gradually comes out of the shade over the next roughly 15 days, until you can see all of it, which is then the full moon. Then it gradually goes back in the shade over the next roughly 15 days when it becomes new again. So on the 6th / 7th of August just a tad more than a quarter would have been visible.
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Hi maggie apparently towards early morning the moon goes high a bit like the sun towards the end of summer....I can't find any data saying there was a moon that night...apart from the 8th and the full moon on the 30th.....It takes 4 weeks for the moon to appear.
If there was no moon, then his description on that night is incorrect....lolol I will delve into things...:)
Youre a good delver Patti, I have to go to the shop and then any moment I shall be overrun. I do know I have read it somewhere on the forum....the moon was behind the house....or certainly not visible from that side. Try the witness statements first. ;D ;D
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Youre a good delver Patti, I have to go to the shop and then any moment I shall be overrun. I do know I have read it somewhere on the forum....the moon was behind the house....or certainly not visible from that side. Try the witness statements first. ;D ;D
The moon rises in the east, so yes, it was probably towards the opposite side of the house to where the kitchen is, but, it doesn't rise exactly to the east, so since the window in which the trick of the light was seen is on the south elevation of the house, a reflection might be seen if the moon was slightly to the south.
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Lol no, it doesn't 'go'. It's all to do with how much of it is in the shade. Very much simplified, on the new moon it's completely in the shade do you can't see it. It then gradually comes out of the shade over the next roughly 15 days, until you can see all of it, which is then the full moon. Then it gradually goes back in the shade over the next roughly 15 days when it becomes new again. So on the 6th / 7th of August just a tad more than a quarter would have been visible.
Yes, Bridget...still not 100% sure about it, but I gather there was some sort of moonlight that night, but not a full moon....Now we have to look to see if it was cloudy lolol
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I find this ridiculous but will post it anyway....
Some studies seem to offer limited support for lunar effects, but most fail to show any relationship between the phase of the moon and abnormal behaviour,[16] and meta-analyses have revealed that apparently significant results are likely to be statistical anomalies rather than indicative of a real effect.[17] In general, apparent positive findings have tended to be inconclusive, contradicted by other studies, or shown to be the result of statistical errors. For example, one study found a statistically significant correlation between lunar phase and hospital admissions due to gastrointestinal bleeding, but researchers acknowledged that the wide variation in the number of admissions throughout the lunar cycle limited the interpretation of the results.[18] Two other studies found evidence that those with mental disorders generally exhibit periods of increased violent or aggressive episodes during the full moon,[19][20] but a more recent study found no such correlation.[21] An analysis of mental-health data found a significant effect of moon phase, but only on schizophrenic patients.[22]
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I've been very naughty and emailed the met office..... :) :) :)
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Police stage managed Sheila's body, they did not just move her hand (as claimed by DI Cook) they moved her arm, the gun, and her nightdress:-
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They moved her right arm, her right hand, the gun, and then pulled the hem of her nighdress up just like it was when they photographed her on the bed...
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You can tell that police moved the rifle on Sheila's body (despite police protestations that they did not move anything at all, save for her right hand to enable PC Bird to photograph bloodstains on the front lower right hand side of her nightdress, by comparing the shifted position of the rifles barrel which was pointing somewhere beneath Sheila's chin and neck, but in another photograph, the guns barrel is actually resting against the left hand side of her throat....
The distance with which the barrel of the gun has traveled in these photographs is identical to the distance the butt of the rifle has traveled, in the other photographs...
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You can tell that police moved the rifle on Sheila's body (despite police protestations that they did not move anything at all, save for her right hand to enable PC Bird to photograph bloodstains on the front lower right hand side of her nightdress, by comparing the shifted position of the rifles barrel which was pointing somewhere beneath Sheila's chin and neck, but in another photograph, the guns barrel is actually resting against the left hand side of her throat....
The distance with which the barrel of the gun has traveled in these photographs is identical to the distance the butt of the rifle has traveled, in the other photographs...
Similarly, the distance with which the hem of Sheila's nightdress has ridden up is also equivalent to the distance traveled by the guns barrel against the throat, and the butt of the rifle...
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You can see the extent that the hem of Sheila's nightdress has ridden up by using the pair of socks as a marker against which to make the necessary comparison:-
Also note, the curve of the guns stock is positioned by police at the hem of the nightdress in both positions?
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Hi Grahame - IMO this is what Bob Miller wrote in his notebook. I hope it helps. :)
"9:30 a.m. Upstairs bedroom on right hand side at top of stairs see woman by door (wife) covered in blood. Marks to neck. In same room far side of bed daughter with .22 rifle by her right side. Appears to have gunshot wounds to neck. Bible laying alongside".
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You can see the extent that the hem of Sheila's nightdress has ridden up by using the pair of socks as a marker against which to make the necessary comparison:-
Also note, the curve of the guns stock is positioned by police at the hem of the nightdress in both positions?
Butt of rifle was obviously used to hide or conceal any view of her crotch, once police moved the hand, moved the arm, moved the gun, and moved the hem of the nightdress, because she was not wearing any panties. In fact, when police had earlier photographed Sheila's body on the bed, minus a gun on her body, with the hem of her nightdress ridden high up her thighs, there was nothing present to obstruct any view of her crotch at that time. So, it seems like once they moved Sheila's body to the floor, the police used the rifle's stock and Butt to give Sheila a modicum of decency so that photographs which were not indecent could be taken of her for photographic purposes...
What we have here then, is evidence that it was the police who definitely stage managed Sheila's body on the bedroom floor, yet during the trial it was the prosecutions case that Jeremy Bamber had done the stage managing, in an effort to fool the police into thinking his sister had taken her own life?
I beg your pardon...
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Hi Grahame - IMO this is what Bob Miller wrote in his notebook. I hope it helps. :)
"9:30 a.m. Upstairs bedroom on right hand side at top of stairs see woman by door (wife) covered in blood. Marks to neck. In same room foot side of bed daughter with .22 rifle by her right side. Appears to have gunshot wounds to neck. Bible lying alongside".
I would like to know what date the pocketbook which these notes are written in, was issued to PI "Bob" Miller, since its contents do not match with the witness statement he supposedly made where he recounts that Sheila's body was on the far side of the bed? Nor does it match with what Miller told Deputy Coroner Thompkins at the opening of the inquest on 14th August 1985, when Miller told the hearing that police believed that Sheila killed the others and that she then took her own life by way of a solitary shot to the throat...
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One thing for sure,poor soul didn't die with horror or agony in her face,or fear for that matter.
I've watched people die in the most horrific circumstances,and it's showed. Features screwed up in pain,particularly after a traumatic RTA.. A sudden heart attack where death occurs can also display an expression of fear and pain.
Those who accept death, die in a more dignified way because they were expecting to do so, and therefore are accepting of it, as in the pics shown,where Sheila looked peaceful.
I would have liked to have seen pics of June and Nevill, in which to compare. I bet they were a lot different.
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So...
we have police officers denying that they moved or touched anything at all at the scene, except for DI Cook, who moved Sheila's right hand so that PC Bird could photograph some marks on the front lower part of Sheila's nightdress. Yet, Sheila's right arm was moved, the gun was moved, and the hem of her nightdress was moved, and nobody at the scene saw this happen. Not only that, but although photographic evidence exists to prove police moved the bodies, and exhibits about for the purpose of allowing PC Bird to take photographs which have been misused at the trial stage (October 1986). And to cap it all, the CCRC take the view that the contents of witness statements (some made by the DPP on behalf of witnesses not present when the statements in question were made, or edited) are more important and reliable than photographs taken at the crime scene? ER... What is the world coming to, with people like these in charge of deciding whether or not a case should be sent back to the court of appeal? Fucking imbeciles, the lot of them, they actually make me feel ill (even though I am). What a carry on, police in this case move the bodies, and DPP makes their statements, or edits them in their absence, and although photographic evidence exists to show police tampered with the crime scene, everybody carries on as though the police and the DPP and the rest of his gang of cronies, have done nothing wrong - they are all crackpots, the fucking lot of them, legalized fucking crackpots, no wonder the country is in the state its in...
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PC Bird took the photographs which prove police stage managed Sheila's body on the floor in the bedroom, yet he didn't see anyone tamper with Sheila's arm, or the gun, or her nightdress?
What an idiotic account...
How these morons have not been prosecuted for perverting the course of justice, beats me...
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Yes, Bridget...still not 100% sure about it, but I gather there was some sort of moonlight that night, but not a full moon....Now we have to look to see if it was cloudy lolol
Here is a computer-generated picture of what the moon would have looked like on 7th August 1985 4am:
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Hi Mike - Is there a copy of Bob Miller's statement anywhere? I've looked in the Transcripts and Statements section which was started by Hartley but can't find anything. Thanks. :)
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Hi Bib it's the last quarter image that we want...which is shaded 50%...If you can find one for us that wll be good....TIA...:)
Patti - that image is the precise view for the date in question (as generated here http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/vphase.html)
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Hi Bib it's the last quarter image that we want...which is shaded 50%...If you can find one for us that wll be good....TIA...:)
But that pic Bob posted is exactly as it would be a couple of days prior to the last quarter, which is the 6th/7th.
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Patti - that image is the precise view for the date in question (as generated here http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/vphase.html)
You are correct Bob, thank you....so it's a sort of 3/4 moon, which is bright.... Thank you. :)
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But that pic Bob posted is exactly as it would be a couple of days prior to the last quarter, which is the 6th/7th.
I wonder if Bob can get the weather on the 7th....lol :)
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You are correct Bob, thank you....so it's a sort of 3/4 moon, which is bright.... Thank you. :)
Remember it was behind the house so how could it shine on the window? Doesn't make any sense. Does it?
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Remember it was behind the house so how could it shine on the window? Doesn't make any sense. Does it?
Hi maggie, I have to determine that...It's not that I disagree with you, but I just like to be 100% certain...It also says it was behind the house on the official website....I'm inclined to go with you....:) ;D
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Dear Patricia,
Thank you for your email. This is something that we can definitely provide. However, there is usually a charge for this type of service.
Prices for our data/reports start from approximately £75 + Vat (for a standard statistical weather summary) and approximately £200 + Vat (for any bespoke weather data requests).
If you are happy for me to do so I can forward this request to our Sales Team who will be happy to deal with your case. They will be able to answer any further questions you may have and provide you with a free, non-obligation quotation. Turn-around time for quotes are currently at 10 working days.
If your request for information requires us to get back to you sooner, please let us know. We also offer a fast-track service where, for a premium, reports can be despatched in much shorter timescales.
In the meantime, if you need any further information please contact our Weather Desk on 0870 9000 100 where one of our advisors will be happy to help you. The number is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Kind regards,
Joe
Weather Desk Advisor
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Hi Patti No doubt you are going ahead it seems quite reasonable :) ;) ;D
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Good Lord,Patti. Did you say that you only wanted a forecast and not a share in the company.?
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Dear Patricia,
Thank you for your email. This is something that we can definitely provide. However, there is usually a charge for this type of service.
Prices for our data/reports start from approximately £75 + Vat (for a standard statistical weather summary) and approximately £200 + Vat (for any bespoke weather data requests).
If you are happy for me to do so I can forward this request to our Sales Team who will be happy to deal with your case. They will be able to answer any further questions you may have and provide you with a free, non-obligation quotation. Turn-around time for quotes are currently at 10 working days.
If your request for information requires us to get back to you sooner, please let us know. We also offer a fast-track service where, for a premium, reports can be despatched in much shorter timescales.
In the meantime, if you need any further information please contact our Weather Desk on 0870 9000 100 where one of our advisors will be happy to help you. The number is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Kind regards,
Joe
Weather Desk Advisor
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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That must have been the quickest response I have ever had....I think J Brook should work for Npower....hahahahahah No way am I forking out money like that....up to 200 quid....I will just take it that it was a clear night, but would love to know if there was any cloud about in that area.....hahahahahah
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Remember it was behind the house so how could it shine on the window? Doesn't make any sense. Does it?
Here is a google image of whf, for reference purposes:-
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Hi Patti I could think of better ways than spending £200 bit expensive eh they would have got it wrong anyway. :) :) :)
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I emailed back....and?
Hi Patricia,
I'm sorry to hear that. The only thing I can suggest is to look at our climate averages on our website; http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/climate.html
There are mapped averages, and season figures that may be of some use. However, I suspect I have already given you the best answer to your question.
Apart from that, it may be worth talking to local news papers for information. Certain papers provide daily weather reports, and if you could access an archieve, you may be able to find a report for free.
All the best with your endevours.
Joe
Weather Desk Advisor
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It might be possible to get the weather for that day via the archives in Essex scanning the local newspaper....Too far for me to go...lol
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Hold on hold on my son. I can't even read chinese even with my telescope. Does he say in those notes that he saw Sheila and June on the bed? Which was the whole point of me asking really.
Look guys. I know its nice looking at the moon an' all that. But the whole point of the thread is referring to Bob Miller's notebook where he is supposed to have written that June and Sheila's bodies were on the bed. Now would it be possible to get all you lovers to stop looking at the moon, the which has been discussed umpteen times before and if someone is skillful enough to decipher Bob's scrawl and inform me if he says that June and Sheila's body was on the bed?
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Look guys. I know its nice looking at the moon an' all that. But the whole point of the thread is referring to Bob Miller's notebook where he is supposed to have written that June and Sheila's bodies were on the bed. Now would it be possible to get all you lovers to stop looking at the moon, the which has been discussed umpteen times before and if someone is skillful enough to decipher Bob's scrawl and inform me if he says that June and Sheila's body was on the bed?
He says 'Far side of the bed' bloggsey I think. ;D
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Or the Dark Side of the Moon. ( I'll break out into song in a minute )
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Hi lookout go on then give us a song and dance as well if you can manage both :) :) :)
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Or the Dark Side of the Moon. ( I'll break out into song in a minute )
BY THE LIGHT, by the light by the light OF THE SILVERY MOON moon moon moon moon.
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He says 'Far side of the bed' bloggsey I think. ;D
So Bob Millers notebook doesn't say that Sheila was on the bed with June? Well after how many posts? many many posts the notebook is no use after all. Someone use it to light me a cigar somebody.
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lookout don,t give up your day job :) :) :)
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Sorry! :(
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Now then,Susan,what could be better than that,a duet ?. Two for the price of one. Harmony,eh.?
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lookout lets go girl and show what we are made of :) :) :)
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Sorry! :(
That's us put in our place then Patti :-\
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Hi Grahame - Post #96 was especially for you. :) :) :)
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Hi Mike - Please see #103. Thanks.
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Hi Mike - Please see #103. Thanks.
I will keep my eye open for it, and when I come across it, I will post it...
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Thanks Mike. I would just like to compare the notebook entries to those in his statement. :)
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Thanks Mike. I would just like to compare the notebook entries to those in his statement. :)
I see...
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Hi - Does anyone know if there are any photographs of Bob Miller anywhere? I am desperately trying to put names to faces. Thanks. :)
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Hi - Does anyone know if there are any photographs of Bob Miller anywhere? I am desperately trying to put names to faces. Thanks. :)
Gillian, an earlier thread of mine.....
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1725.msg53816.html#msg53816
I hope this helps.....
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Gillian, an earlier thread of mine.....
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1725.msg53816.html#msg53816
I hope this helps.....
I think that it may have been archived, sorry.....
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Gillian, if you google "Bob Miller" Essex, and click on images, the second photograph is of Miller and Sir Trevor Brooking.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYinkO96k3Q
Twenty seconds from the start.....
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Hi Grahame - IMO this is what Bob Miller wrote in his notebook. I hope it helps. :)
"9:30 a.m. Upstairs bedroom on right hand side at top of stairs see woman by door (wife) covered in blood. Marks to neck. In same room far side of bed daughter with .22 rifle by her right side. Appears to have gunshot wounds to neck. Bible laying alongside".
Thanks for that Gillian. My old eyesight is failing these days.
That statement "far side of bed" is a bit ambiguous to me and could be interpreted both ways? Although "with .22 rifle by her right side" seems to suggest that either her or the rifle had been moved?
Then again the position of the body of June seems to be consistent with the official statement of facts? For if the bodies of Sheila and June were both on the bed as Mike's photo and Ann Eaton's statement suggests. Then why was Junes body on the floor?
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Hi Blodwynflower - Thanks so much for that. :)
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Hi Mike - Regarding #98. Please accept my apologies. I have just realised you posted this before I edited my post to read "far side of bed". Sorry. :(
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Is it possible to clarify "far side of bed." It could indicate either "that side of bed furthest from door" which is what I would take it to mean, or "on the floor, beyond bed."
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Is it possible to clarify "far side of bed." It could indicate either "that side of bed furthest from door" which is what I would take it to mean, or "on the floor, beyond bed."
That is the big question April. It is too nebulous and can be taken both ways. An indication could be drawn from the words, "Gun on her right side". Whereas the raid team statements (perhaps collusion) read "Gun across body". Or words to that effect
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Thanks for that Graheme alias et al. Have had so many unanswered post lately, was beginning to think I didn't exist!!!!!!
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That is the big question April. It is too nebulous and can be taken both ways. An indication could be drawn from the words, "Gun on her right side". Whereas the raid team statements (perhaps collusion) read "Gun across body". Or words to that effect
I think even the wording of the rifle location is contentious, Sheila was on the floor on her back and the rifle was on her body, on the right hand side of her body.
I don't think that either points are contradictory enough to show an alternative scenario to that officially reported, it certainly wouldn't be entertained as a ground of appeal in isolation.
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Thanks for that Graheme alias et al. Have had so many unanswered post lately, was beginning to think I didn't exist!!!!!!
Who said that?? ??? ;D
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I think even the wording of the rifle location is contentious, Sheila was on the floor on her back and the rifle was on her body, on the right hand side of her body.
I don't think that either points are contradictory enough to show an alternative scenario to that officially reported, it certainly wouldn't be entertained as a ground of appeal in isolation.
Well that's what I think. Unfortunately I don't think Millers notebook can be used in order to prove that sheila was on the bed. I would think he referred to her as being on the floor? For the simple reason that June's body was behind the door and not on the bed as suggested in the alleged photograph?
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Okay Guys, now I have your attention, PLEASE can somebody explain this to me.
Mike asserts that the police said that Jeremy "stage managed" Sheila's body to make it appear that she had shot herself. My question is this. Would that "stage management" have occured at Position 1 (kitchen floor). Position 2 (main bedroom, on bed). Position 3a (on floor, with hand laying on gun) or Position 3b (hand appearing to be on trigger)???
Mike also says that Jeremy was there when DC Clarke told Ann Eaton that Sheila was found in Position 2, which surely means he couldn't have arranged her into Positions 3a or 3b when he supposedly murdered her. Any ideas?
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Hi april1 - You may like to read the thread regarding Taff Jones' notebook entries which I have tried to decipher like Bob Miller's entries in this thread. You may find it interesting and helpful. :)
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Hi april1 - Bob Miller states "far side of bed" and Taff Jones states "far side of the bed". Bob Miller states "daughter with .22 rifle by her right side" and Taff Jones states "and on her stomach and resting near her chin was a rifle" so there appears to be discrepencies as to the rifle but consistencies about where Sheila was found. There are also consistencies about where June's body was found IMO. :)
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Good morning all.
It's that second shot in Sheila's neck that's bugging me. I still maintain that it was " accidental ",as the first hadn't had the desired effect,but would have eventually killed her though not as instant as was wanted.
The second shot was quite some time after the first one because of the blood flow,which would have ceased the minute she was shot,for obvious reasons,and there would have been coagulation,which clearly there wasn't.
What I'm saying is that the photographs showing,or giving the impression of flowing blood doesn't sit well.
I've witnessed accidents,particularly suicide victims where they've severed through a main vein,but have still been alive,and this is how it looks where some are still alive,complete with heartbeat,albeit weak,but neverthless still pumping.
When that photo of Sheila was taken,the tragedy must have occurred with immediate effect of death to witness that flow of blood. So whenever that pic was taken,was the exact time that she died.
There's never been any exact time of deaths of any of the family,which I find is bad practice. Livor Mortis would have dictated the times of death,and as far as I can see,it was never carried out.
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Hi april1 - Bob Miller states "far side of bed" and Taff Jones states "far side of the bed". Bob Miller states "daughter with .22 rifle by her right side" and Taff Jones states "and on her stomach and resting near her chin was a rifle" so there appears to be discrepencies as to the rifle but consistencies about where Sheila was found. There are also consistencies about where June's body was found IMO. :)
I think that these "inconsistencies" can be put down to witnesses difference perceptions of the same scene?
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I think that these "inconsistencies" can be put down to witnesses difference perceptions of the same scene?
I agree, it's quite simple really, get 50 people to witness something and then give a report, the chances of getting 50 identical reports are incredibly unlikely.
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Bews apparently pissed his pants when they all saw the figure at the bedroom window, and he was the first of the three to run off back to the patrol car (Jeremy told me this himself) and recount to PS Saxby what they had all just seen, which in turn was relayed back to the control room with a request that the firearms team should be deployed because the person they had just seen could be armed with a weapon...
Now...
Which witness statement would you most like to see, the one made for him by the DPP, or the one edited to miss out the sighting of the figure at the bedroom window?
Ooooh goody, you're taking requests :)
Now let's see, as you are suggesting there are a number of different versions, then in order to maintain/instigate transparency, let's have all of the different versions posted, that way members of the forum can view them all and come to their own conclusions. It would certainly stimulate debate.
So, back to the requests:
1. Please could you post all statements made by PC Saxby (and court transcripts if he was called).
There is nothing from him currently on the forum, he stayed behind at the car CA07 whilst Bewes, Myall and Jeremy walked the perimeter of the house. He was one of the three police officers to first arrive at the scene.
2. Please could you post all statements made by PC Myall.
Currently the only thing from him on the forum is a court transcript located here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,185.msg488.html#msg488
He was another of the three officers who first attended the scene and he is central to Mikes theory of a sighting of movement in the house. I don't understand how the theory could be considered without viewing his statements.
3. Please could you post all statements made by PS Bewes (and court transcripts if he was called).
Currently there is nothing from him on the forum, he was again one of the first three officers to attend the scene and again central to Mikes theory of a sighting of movement in the house.
4. Please could you post all statements made by PC Collins ( and court transcripts if he was called).
Currently there is nothing from him on the forum. PC Collins was a member of the firearms team and amongst the first to enter the house. It was PC Collins who looked through the kitchen window and saw the body of Nevill whom he mistakenly identified as a female. PC Collins is central to Mikes theory that there were two bodies discovered in the kitchen, it must surely be absolutely crucial to see his statements in order to consider this particular theory of Mikes.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Also, to stop me badgering, Mike if you do not have these statements and you are therefore unable to post them, then please let me know and I will stop asking you for them. :)
EDIT: NB: I'm aware of the various interviews available on 'Youtube', but let's start at the beginning.
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which ever is correct; 2 downstairs and 3 upstairs or 1 downstairs and 4 upstairs, it all amounts to confusion and too many doubts for a safe conviction !!
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which ever is correct; 2 downstairs and 3 upstairs or 1 downstairs and 4 upstairs, it all amounts to confusion and too many doubts for a safe conviction !!
Sounds like a Brian Rix farce. Or are you too young to remember those? ;D
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Grahame; yes, it does sound like a farce, now I come to read it again. But, so does JB's trial!
I do remember Brian Rix, it was in the days of B/W 12inch screens, CRTs and valves. Happy days ? not really !
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I'm assuming this is the same Bob Miller. I wonder if he ever got his autobiography published! :)
CHELMSFORD: Ex-cop's 'Life on Mars' with Essex Police
Wednesday, January 07, 2009
This is Essex
POLICING Essex in the 1970s, if not quite like being on another planet, was very much akin to the popular TV series Life on Mars, according to former detective Bob 'Dusty' Miller.
Flowery ties, colourful characters and supergrass contacts were all part of the era for Bob who spent 30 years in the police force, including a stint on the regional crime squad.
He sees similarities between his time with the force and the BBC TV drama about detective Sam Tyler who travels back in time to 1973.
Now Bob from Springfield has written an autobiography and is hoping to secure a publisher.
The foreword to the book has been written by Leonard 'Nipper' Read, the ex-Scotland Yard detective who arrested the Kray Twins. He has praised Bob's book as being the best of its genre.
Before he retired 12 years ago, Bob was a detective inspector in Great Dunmow and ended his career in a uniformed post in Witham. He admits that his views have moved forward from his days as a young detective.
He has developed a passion for human rights and also has a deep interest in education because he believes the two subjects are inextricably linked, but are lacking within the prison system.
But he still relishes the memories of the 1970s, and says: "It was like the TV programme Life on Mars in many ways.
"A lot of my experiences dovetail with the programme, but there are aspects of the seventies that were missing from the series.
"The equal pay, sex discrimination and race relations legislation all came into effect in the 1970s and all these things affected the CID.
"The late Pam Arnold became the first woman detective in Chelmsford and there were a couple more in Essex.
"The equal pay gave them financial parity with their male colleagues but changes in attitude towards women, thinking of them other than being in the maternal role, did take longer to become embedded.
"The hard-drinking and womanising image of the police officers portrayed in Life on Mars was accurate.
"It was the era of the supergrass and a lot of criminals turned into informers.
"Some of the practices that went on at that time just wouldn't happen now.
"The CID had a lot of power and it was like being part of a very elite club. A DI (detective inspector) would literally run a police station.
"Decisions could be made about prosecutions, but these decisions are now taken by the Crown Prosecution Service.
"In the late seventies the CID was put under uniform control which was the end of an era.
"At that time, Chelmsford was a market town and there was not so much drug-related crime. Burglars were after property, not money for drugs and they all relied on having a good fence to dispose of the property.
"The cases we dealt with included murders, bullion hauls, lorry hijackings and kidnappings.
"Results were achieved correctly most of the time, but there were some travesties of justice which have been well documented."
Bob plans to recount his thoughts on major cases in his book.
He says that life-changing turning points for him were going to the South Pacific in the 1980s when he saw mistreatment of prisoners, and obtaining a degree in humanities with the Open University.
"I became much more involved in politics and really went back to my roots.
"I am a Dagenham boy and my family were socialists. I joined the Labour Party and went on to become, among other things, an Ofsted inspector.
"Life after my time in the police force has been as interesting as time in the force."
Although Bob would not want to see the return of many of the practices of the 1970s he does miss the extrovert characters of the time.
"I think the police force does reflect society and we are in much greyer times now," he said.
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Ooooh goody, you're taking requests :)
Now let's see, as you are suggesting there are a number of different versions, then in order to maintain/instigate transparency, let's have all of the different versions posted, that way members of the forum can view them all and come to their own conclusions. It would certainly stimulate debate.
So, back to the requests:
1. Please could you post all statements made by PC Saxby (and court transcripts if he was called).
There is nothing from him currently on the forum, he stayed behind at the car CA07 whilst Bewes, Myall and Jeremy walked the perimeter of the house. He was one of the three police officers to first arrive at the scene.
2. Please could you post all statements made by PC Myall.
Currently the only thing from him on the forum is a court transcript located here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,185.msg488.html#msg488
He was another of the three officers who first attended the scene and he is central to Mikes theory of a sighting of movement in the house. I don't understand how the theory could be considered without viewing his statements.
3. Please could you post all statements made by PS Bewes (and court transcripts if he was called).
Currently there is nothing from him on the forum, he was again one of the first three officers to attend the scene and again central to Mikes theory of a sighting of movement in the house.
4. Please could you post all statements made by PC Collins ( and court transcripts if he was called).
Currently there is nothing from him on the forum. PC Collins was a member of the firearms team and amongst the first to enter the house. It was PC Collins who looked through the kitchen window and saw the body of Nevill whom he mistakenly identified as a female. PC Collins is central to Mikes theory that there were two bodies discovered in the kitchen, it must surely be absolutely crucial to see his statements in order to consider this particular theory of Mikes.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Also, to stop me badgering, Mike if you do not have these statements and you are therefore unable to post them, then please let me know and I will stop asking you for them. :)
EDIT: NB: I'm aware of the various interviews available on 'Youtube', but let's start at the beginning.
Bump.
Mike, I wonder if you had a chance to consider the above requests?
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List of witnesses who placed Sheila's body on the far side of the bed:-
(1) - Police surgeon, Dr Craig
(2) - PI "Bob" Miller
(3) - DCI "Taff" Jones
and the following witnesses told others that Sheila's body was found on the bed:-
(4) - DC Clarke
(5) - Police surgeon, Dr Craig
The following witnesses were told that Sheila's body had been found or was on the bed:-
(6) - Ann Eaton
(7) - Ewen Smith
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Ewen was told that Sheila was on the bed at some point. But not found on the bed. Seems a little misleading with the wording to say she was found on the bed - that makes it sound like the first discovery of her was on the bed.
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Well, Ewen was told by Dr Craig that Sheila was on the bed when he pronounced her as being dead, but DC Clarke told Ann Eaton that Sheila had been found on the bed, so rather than suggest I am being misleading seems like everybody in this case was misleading everybody else about where the body of Sheila was found...
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Well, Ewen was told by Dr Craig that Sheila was on the bed when he pronounced her as being dead, but DC Clarke told Ann Eaton that Sheila had been found on the bed, so rather than suggest I am being misleading seems like everybody in this case was misleading everybody else about where the body of Sheila was found...
So she was pronounced dead their by this particular docotr - but pronounced dead there doesn't mean she was first found there - right?
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Mat right!
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Title of thread plainly inaccurate. Confirms nothing of the sort!
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Title of thread plainly inaccurate. Confirms nothing of the sort!
I am compelled to agree with you Vic. However I had a phone call last night and that caller queried the police book wording? They told me that the police are usually quite accurate in their descriptions of scenes and if they wanted to convey the fact that Sheila was on the floor they would probably have said Sheila was on the floor at the far side of the bed.
But they didn't. In fact they ALL said exactly the same words. Which is a bit odd at the least and suspicious at best. That all without one exception say the ambiguous wording Sheila was on the far side of the bed. Now I am willing to accept one, perhaps two the same. But the very fact they all without exception said exactly the same thing ambiguously, indicates to me that something is amiss here?
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I am compelled to agree with you Vic. However I had a phone call last night and that caller queried the police book wording? They told me that the police are usually quite accurate in their descriptions of scenes and if they wanted to convey the fact that Sheila was on the floor they would probably have said Sheila was on the floor at the far side of the bed.
But they didn't. In fact they ALL said exactly the same words. Which is a bit odd at the least and suspicious at best. That all without one exception say the ambiguous wording Sheila was on the far side of the bed. Now I am willing to accept one, perhaps two the same. But the very fact they all without exception said exactly the same thing ambiguously, indicates to me that something is amiss here?
Excellent post !!
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Hi Jon and Grahame, 'So I can say that' that cONundRUM has been put on/to bed. By analogy, Sheila was not ON the near side of the bed. (QED)
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Hi Jon and Grahame, 'So I can say that' that cONundRUM has been put on/to bed. By analogy, Sheila was not ON the near side of the bed. (QED) 8)
Great to see you posting again Campion !!
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Hi campion we were discussing Red Kites on the forum as I have 4 visit my garden quite often. Grahame suggested I contacted you as you know all about them and their is a connection with the Bamber Case. Unless it is a wind up. ;) ;) ;)
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hi susan, Can you kindly tell me, who is 'We' and when it was last discussed on the Forum?
Hello KEIRA, I have, I think, discovered the significance of STOKENCHURCH. EUREKA!!! It wasn't a RED KITE emblem on George Harris's tie from the RSPB site alongside the M40. It transpires that it may well be his Regimental tie- symbol a dove and olive branch, or alternatively, a lightning bolt, fof the RAF Regiment TCR (motto Ubique Loquimur-We Speak Everywhere !!!!!!)
Mertol, there is, or was until recently, a SECRET Underground Bunker ( Southdown) in the vicinity.
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Hi campion we were discussing birds on the forum 2 weeks back and I posted that I had 4 red kites visit my garden daily for food. Grahame said you knew quite alot about red kites and he seemed to think their was some type of connection to the Bamber case. Am I correct in assuming your post is a 3 in 1 ;D ;D ;D It was Grahame who suggested I spoke with you about it. ???
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Hi campion we were discussing birds on the forum 2 weeks back and I posted that I had 4 red kites visit my garden daily for food. Grahame said you knew quite alot about red kites and he seemed to think their was some type of connection to the Bamber case. Am I correct in assuming your post is a 3 in 1 ;D ;D ;D It was Grahame who suggested I spoke with you about it. ???
Hi Susan, I think Grahame was referring to a thread about what the emblem was on a policeman's tie (press photo in the bamber case).
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Hi Bridget Thanks for telling me that I was beginning to wish I had never asked I think I totally confused campion and he probably thinks I am deranged ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Susan, I think Grahame was referring to a thread about what the emblem was on a policeman's tie (press photo in the bamber case).
I found out that was an Eagle. :( I had in mind operation Stokenchurch. Isn't that the place renouned for the most Red Kites in the country?
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I found out that was an Eagle. :( I had in mind operation Stokenchurch. Isn't that the place renouned for the most Red Kites in the country?
This was the thread:
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1391.0.html
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Hi Bridget/Grahame Thanks for the thread that was not a red kite more like Crow on his tie ;) ;) ;)
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Hi Jon and Grahame, 'So I can say that' that cONundRUM has been put on/to bed. By analogy, Sheila was not ON the near side of the bed. (QED)
Hello cryptic campion snr.
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Hi Bridget/Grahame Thanks for the thread that was not a red kite more like Crow on his tie ;) ;) ;)
I think someone on the forum identified it as an eagle? Yes they did. It was DCrump who identified it as an eagle the brand of a clothing manufacturer.
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Hi Grahame just having a laugh when I said it was a Crow I think it is an Eagle ;D
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hi susan, Can you kindly tell me, who is 'We' and when it was last discussed on the Forum?
Hello KEIRA, I have, I think, discovered the significance of STOKENCHURCH. EUREKA!!! It wasn't a RED KITE emblem on George Harris's tie from the RSPB site alongside the M40. It transpires that it may well be his Regimental tie- symbol a dove and olive branch, or alternatively, a lightning bolt, fof the RAF Regiment TCR (motto Ubique Loquimur-We Speak Everywhere !!!!!!) Mertol, there is, or was until recently, a SECRET Underground Bunker ( Southdown) in the vicinity.
Hi Campion,
So what is the significance of Stokenchurch? As you know, I always had a hunch about this, to refresh your memory, the following is one of my posts about the place and op name:
"The name of this operation bugs me. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that this operation was named after a village in Bucks, some 6 miles from High Wycombe. But the name still bugs me.
Does anyone have any idea why this specific name might have been chosen?
Could it be that Operation Stokenchurch was perhaps initiated as the result of a complaint made in the High Wycombe district?
Here's what Wikipedia says about Stokenchurch:
"The village name is Old English in origin, although there is a difference of opinion among scholars as to its original meaning.
Patrick Hanks: OE stoccen + cirice, literally "logs church".
Starey and Viccars: more likely to come from the alternative meaning for the Anglo Saxon word stocc, which is an outlying farm or secondary settlement.
The guide to the Parish Church: a battle fought between the locals and Danes on nearby Beacon Hill in 914AD.
It is said that where juniper grows blood has been spilt - there is certainly lots of juniper on Beacon Hill.
The site of the village, (being on the main London to Oxford Road) proved a good resting and changing place for horses. For this reason in the English Civil War it was commonly used as a resting place for both Royalist and Parliamentarian troops..."
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I am compelled to agree with you Vic. However I had a phone call last night and that caller queried the police book wording? They told me that the police are usually quite accurate in their descriptions of scenes and if they wanted to convey the fact that Sheila was on the floor they would probably have said Sheila was on the floor at the far side of the bed.
But they didn't. In fact they ALL said exactly the same words. Which is a bit odd at the least and suspicious at best. That all without one exception say the ambiguous wording Sheila was on the far side of the bed. Now I am willing to accept one, perhaps two the same. But the very fact they all without exception said exactly the same thing ambiguously, indicates to me that something is amiss here?
Good thinking, Grahame.