Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: curiousessex on December 30, 2014, 11:00:AM

Title: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: curiousessex on December 30, 2014, 11:00:AM
Within 'CASE RELATED PHOTOGRAPHS' in the 'Archive and Library' section there is a photograph showing the front on WHF.

The particular photograph is 'WHF31'.

This photograph appears to be taken from the very same position Jeremy describes, in his own words and in detail ,where Bews, Myall and Jeremy were located on the morning of 7th August 1985. Jeremy details they saw a person looking out from the master bedroom which had curtains open and the light on. These details / Jeremy's exact words are included in Mike's thread 'Jeremy explains visit to farmhouse PC Myall and PS Bews..'

Bews and Myall maintain what they saw was a trick of the light.

Jeremy includes a hand written diagram within his letter to Mike. The diagram is referenced '1419586273915' and includes notes regarding the state of each room eg. lights on or off, windows open or closed, curtains open or shut.

The photograph 'WHF31' and Jeremy's diagram '1419586273915' appear to be exact in all aspects - For each room the state of the lights, windows and curtains all appear to be the same.

Even more there appears to be someone looking out from the master bedroom in the same position as is depicted in Jeremy's drawing. However if 'WHF31' is zoomed in there is in fact no one there......... a trick of the light.

In fact within 'CASE RELATED PHOTOGRAPHS' if many of the photographs of the front of WHF and from the perspective Jeremy describes in his letter and drawing are looked at closely many have apparent image reflections appearing over the windows.

Maybe at Jeremy's trial the Jury were correct in believing the PC Myall and PS Bews description of what was seen on the morning of 7th August 1985?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2014, 11:25:AM
And maybe not,curiousessex.

I refer to the actual sighting which,within minutes,the firearms team were contacted,with yet another backup team after the first team had arrived. All for a " trick of the light ?".I think not,do you ?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Alias on December 30, 2014, 01:00:PM
Here they are for comparison.

(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=38316;image)

(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6280.0;attach=38890;image)

(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6280.0;attach=38892;image)

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6280.msg277931.html#msg277931

My personal opinion of this is that if Jeremy really believed he had seen someone in that window, he would have been screaming and kicking about it all through his trial - and to this day.
Sorry to say, I think he is clinging at straws here, so I tend to agree with you, curiousessex
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2014, 01:05:PM
Why waste resources such as the firearms teams who are only called out as a very last resort when they know for sure that they're up against a siege where firearms are involved ?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2014, 01:08:PM
Why waste resources such as the firearms teams who are only called out as a very last resort when they know for sure that they're up against a siege where firearms are involved ?



In fairness, Lookout, they can only go on what information they are given and that information may be incorrect. I feel certain that in the immediacy of a situation, resources didn't enter the equation.
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Mr. Gee on December 30, 2014, 01:46:PM
Within 'CASE RELATED PHOTOGRAPHS' in the 'Archive and Library' section there is a photograph showing the front on WHF.

The particular photograph is 'WHF31'.

This photograph appears to be taken from the very same position Jeremy describes, in his own words and in detail ,where Bews, Myall and Jeremy were located on the morning of 7th August 1985. Jeremy details they saw a person looking out from the master bedroom which had curtains open and the light on. These details / Jeremy's exact words are included in Mike's thread 'Jeremy explains visit to farmhouse PC Myall and PS Bews..'

Bews and Myall maintain what they saw was a trick of the light.

Jeremy includes a hand written diagram within his letter to Mike. The diagram is referenced '1419586273915' and includes notes regarding the state of each room eg. lights on or off, windows open or closed, curtains open or shut.

The photograph 'WHF31' and Jeremy's diagram '1419586273915' appear to be exact in all aspects - For each room the state of the lights, windows and curtains all appear to be the same.

Even more there appears to be someone looking out from the master bedroom in the same position as is depicted in Jeremy's drawing. However if 'WHF31' is zoomed in there is in fact no one there......... a trick of the light.

In fact within 'CASE RELATED PHOTOGRAPHS' if many of the photographs of the front of WHF and from the perspective Jeremy describes in his letter and drawing are looked at closely many have apparent image reflections appearing over the windows.

Maybe at Jeremy's trial the Jury were correct in believing the PC Myall and PS Bews description of what was seen on the morning of 7th August 1985?
Hi curious, I hope you are well? Yes I can see what you mean and yes at that time in the morning it could actually be mistaken for a trick of the light. And I can also see your point about the jury being convinced that Bewes and Myall explanation being the right one if they were shown the drawing and the photo. The only problem being is that this photo was taken during the day and the image that Jeremy, Myall and Bewes saw was of the room with the light on thus creating a backlight to whatever was seen that night?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2014, 02:36:PM


In fairness, Lookout, they can only go on what information they are given and that information may be incorrect. I feel certain that in the immediacy of a situation, resources didn't enter the equation.





Bad communication then ?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2014, 02:37:PM
 Not just one team of firearms experts-----------------but a backup as well ??
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Mr. Gee on December 30, 2014, 02:40:PM
Here they are for comparison.

(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=38316;image)

(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6280.0;attach=38890;image)

(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6280.0;attach=38892;image)

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6280.msg277931.html#msg277931

My personal opinion of this is that if Jeremy really believed he had seen someone in that window, he would have been screaming and kicking about it all through his trial - and to this day.
Sorry to say, I think he is clinging at straws here, so I tend to agree with you, curiousessex
I wonder when that picture was taken? Also when the picture was taken there actually was someone looking out of the window at the time?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2014, 02:51:PM
I wonder when that picture was taken? Also when the picture was taken there actually was someone looking out of the window at the time?



It could, of course, be no more than illusion, but it looks to me as if someone wearing a short sleeved tee shirt is peering from the window, face close to the glass, supporting themselves by holding onto the window ledge.
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2014, 03:28:PM


It could, of course, be no more than illusion, but it looks to me as if someone wearing a short sleeved tee shirt is peering from the window, face close to the glass, supporting themselves by holding onto the window ledge.






Nah,it's a trick of the light. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: susan on December 30, 2014, 03:45:PM
Hi lookout you sure are sharp today ;D ;D ;D ;D Keep it up :-*
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2014, 03:49:PM
 Oh I will,Susan. ;D ;D ;D ;D.
Just reading the local rag, I didn't know that Charles Bronson was in Full Sutton.
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: susan on December 30, 2014, 03:53:PM
Lookout gosh neither did I.  Is he a film actor?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2014, 03:58:PM
Afraid not. He's a very much feared criminal who probably took his name from the actor.
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: susan on December 30, 2014, 03:58:PM
Lookout ignore me think I have had too much sherry trifle ;D ;D ;D ;D I will Google him.
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2014, 04:17:PM
 Funny you should say that,Susan. I've not long polished off the remains of a sherry trifle. That was after 2 lamb chops mashed potato and peas. I didn't know whether to eat it or jump over it. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: susan on December 30, 2014, 04:25:PM
HaHaHa lookout hope you shared with wee susie  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Mr. Gee on December 30, 2014, 04:36:PM
Lookout gosh neither did I.  Is he a film actor?
Charles Bronson the actor (born  Charles Buchinsky) died in 2003. I think Charles Bronson the prisoner changed his name from Charles Salvador or something similar?
I think Charles Bronson the actor married David McCallum's wife Jill Ireland?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 30, 2014, 04:41:PM
Quite a mine of information there Mr G. ;D
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2014, 05:32:PM
Charles Bronson the actor (born  Charles Buchinsky) died in 2003. I think Charles Bronson the prisoner changed his name from Charles Salvador or something similar?
I think Charles Bronson the actor married David McCallum's wife Jill Ireland?

Charles Bronson the prisoner was originally called 'Michael Gordon Peterson'. He was given the name Charles Bronson by his promoter when he was a fighter (bare knuckle - I think) and not because he was a fan of the actor. He has since changed his name to 'Charles Salvador' because of his appreciation for Dali's art and maybe he thinks the name change might bring him better luck with the Parole Board :).
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Mr. Gee on December 30, 2014, 05:38:PM
Charles Bronson the prisoner was originally called 'Michael Gordon Peterson'. He was given the name Charles Bronson by his promoter when he was a fighter (bare knuckle - I think) and not because he was a fan of the actor. He has since changed his name to 'Charles Salvador' because of his appreciation for Dali's art and maybe he thinks the name change might bring him better luck with the Parole Board :).
Ah I got it wrong as usual. ;D
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Caroline on December 30, 2014, 05:43:PM
Ah I got it wrong as usual. ;D

You were nearly right :)

He's quite an interesting bloke and a really good cartoonist. My last dog was terrified of him!! I was watching a documentary about him and a pretty vicious looking picture of him sent my dog running under the dinning table. I thought it was just a fluke - but then it happened again  ;D
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: susan on December 30, 2014, 07:02:PM
Mr Gee sorry I deleted my post to you in error it was rubbish anyway ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lebaleb on December 31, 2014, 09:04:AM
To make a real decision on whether it could be a trick of the light, the photo should be at night with a light on in the room and with a similar amount of moonlight.
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2014, 10:11:AM
 If there was artificial light in the background,which there was,then a person WOULD show up.
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2014, 10:30:AM
In colin Caffell book he does say that it was mentioned on the day after the murders when he was with Jeremy at Goldhanger that the armed response were called as a result of seeing "movement" at the window . He could not remember accurately whether it came from Jeremy or the police. It is quite near the beginning of the book. It is also worth noting that he was not impressed with the "style" of Stan Jones in those first few hours as he was quite rude to colins girlfriend.It was also mentioned that Jeremys first statement was about 24 to 28 pages . I don't think we have ever seen that full statement?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2014, 10:32:AM
Jan,would you know if that statement of Jeremys' was with,or without a solicitor present ?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2014, 10:52:AM
Jan,would you know if that statement of Jeremys' was with,or without a solicitor present ?

Without - this was the statement taken in the morning when the police were at his house . Anne was there as were Colin and his girlfriend and at least two officers . Apparently it was mainly about Julies life. Colin did an 8 page statement. This is when Jeremy said he did not mention Sheilas involvement with Drugs - so Colin did mention it and then felt really guilty about doing that because it then got leaked to the press.

BTW there was a headline in the press about something to do with Freddie E and Sheila and a knife? Do you know anything about that?
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2014, 11:02:AM
Without - this was the statement taken in the morning when the police were at his house . Anne was there as were Colin and his girlfriend and at least two officers . Apparently it was mainly about Julies life. Colin did an 8 page statement. This is when Jeremy said he did not mention Sheilas involvement with Drugs - so Colin did mention it and then felt really guilty about doing that because it then got leaked to the press.

BTW there was a headline in the press about something to do with Freddie E and Sheila and a knife? Do you know anything about that?






Ah,yes,I remember that bit. I thought it was when he was first arrested. I also remember the " drug " headlines too.
Jeremy could have had a field day when you think about it,but he didn't condemn his sisters' life-style at all. In other words he hadn't attempted to make her a scapegoat.

I very vaguely remember something about a knife,but now that you've jostled my memory,I'm going to look into that. That incident was drug-related. Thanks for the reminder.
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: Jan on December 31, 2014, 11:07:AM
I actually read the first half of the book again last night and it just mentioned a headline - Bambers boyfriend knife terror - or something similar.

Colin also took the photographs that Jeremy Allegedly tried to sell .I think they were the ones he took when June found then sunbathing naked .

Colin excused a lot of his behaviour at the time of the funerals etc  because JB was on Valium and a lot of booze .
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: lookout on December 31, 2014, 11:12:AM
 He was also heavy on the cannabis too during and after the funeral,so that would have added to his mood. He was naturally trying to block the tragedy out while under sufferance to act " normal ".

Sympathetic lot,weren't they ?? Makes me so angry.
Title: Re: Does WHF31 confirm Bews' and Myall's version of what was seen with Jeremy?
Post by: curiousessex on December 31, 2014, 11:13:AM
Hi curious, I hope you are well? Yes I can see what you mean and yes at that time in the morning it could actually be mistaken for a trick of the light. And I can also see your point about the jury being convinced that Bewes and Myall explanation being the right one if they were shown the drawing and the photo. The only problem being is that this photo was taken during the day and the image that Jeremy, Myall and Bewes saw was of the room with the light on thus creating a backlight to whatever was seen that night?

Mr. Gee

I am well thank you as I hope you are.

Naturally with regard to the time of day photograph 'WHF31' was taken I am not sure and have no way of telling. In this regard it should also be remembered cameras, even during 1980s, will have had the ability to compensate for panoramic low / lower light levels.

As for 'WHF31' my personal opinion is the actual daylight levels at the time of the photograph are lower than appear in the posted photograph. My reasoning for this is the appearance of the sky being overcast in the far background, the seeing of light bulbs from within rooms behind master bedroom window and behind front door window.

The other thing to note is on the morning of 7th August 1985 if it was very dark outside in what is effectively open countryside with very little natural light pollution, the master bedroom was fully illuminated with the light on and curtains fully open there would not be much point in trying to look out of the master bedroom window as the light differentials would not be very conducive to seeing anything on the other side of the window. In such a scenario physics will determine a reflection / mirror effect appearing on the inside of what would be an opaque master bedroom window as opposed to a transparent master bedroom window.