Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on December 13, 2014, 11:12:AM
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Jeremy's supporters often claim he couldn't have controlled the occupants at WHF. But wouldn't the same be true for Sheila ?
So who was in the best position to control the occupants and carry out a successful massacre ?
Jeremy
He would have been fully clothed. Probably in several layers, with gloves and a balaclava to protect himself.
He was competent with guns.
He also had the element of surprise as everyone would be asleep. The perfect time for an execution. June & the twins being shot in bed while Neville escaped seconds earlier. Sheila had to be out of bed, so was either carried, lead of retreated to the far corner of the main bedroom. So not really much to control if everything goes smoothly.
If things got violent, he was a fit young man who could control two 6 year olds and a two women. Even if they woke. Neville was more problematic and the judge said he 'put up a tremendous fight for life'. Luckily for a fit, fully clothed and hyped up Jeremy, Neville was badly injured and eventually brutally beaten.
Sheila
She did not have any protective clothing. So more likely to get head, body or hand injuries.
She did not have the element of surprise. Neville being up and awake, and having the option of getting June for assistance or restraining Sheila himself. He even had time to spend several minutes phoning Jeremy and the police.
She had limited/no experience with guns. Holding a not very powerful rifle. She would have to accurately hit a moving Neville & a moving June, Nicholas & Daniel if they woke from the noise.
She was very slight and would not stand a chance in a struggle with a fit Neville or Neville/June. She may also struggle with an injured Neville or Neville/June and end up with injuries or losing control of the rifle.
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It is common knowledge that the crime was committed by either Sheila or Jeremy. It seems much more believable that Jeremy would be able to control the five occupants at WHF.
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Jeremy's supporters often claim he couldn't have controlled the occupants at WHF. But wouldn't the same be true for Sheila ?
So who was in the best position to control the occupants and carry out a successful massacre ?
Jeremy
He would have been fully clothed. Probably in several layers, with gloves and a balaclava to protect himself.
He was competent with guns.
He also had the element of surprise as everyone would be asleep. The perfect time for an execution. June & the twins being shot in bed while Neville escaped seconds earlier. Sheila had to be out of bed, so was either carried, lead of retreated to the far corner of the main bedroom. So not really much to control if everything goes smoothly.
If things got violent, he was a fit young man who could control two 6 year olds and a two women. Even if they woke. Neville was more problematic and the judge said he 'put up a tremendous fight for life'. Luckily for a fit, fully clothed and hyped up Jeremy, Neville was badly injured and eventually brutally beaten.
Sheila
She did not have any protective clothing. So more likely to get head, body or hand injuries.
She did not have the element of surprise. Neville being up and awake, and having the option of getting June for assistance or restraining Sheila himself. He even had time to spend several minutes phoning Jeremy and the police.
She had limited/no experience with guns. Holding a not very powerful rifle. She would have to accurately hit a moving Neville & a moving June, Nicholas & Daniel if they woke from the noise.
She was very slight and would not stand a chance in a struggle with a fit Neville or Neville/June. She may also struggle with an injured Neville or Neville/June and end up with injuries or losing control of the rifle.
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It is common knowledge that the crime was committed by either Sheila or Jeremy. It seems much more believable that Jeremy would be able to control the five occupants at WHF.
In actual fact the evidence indicated that everyone except the twins were awake and not sleeping. Thus giving weight to Jeremy's testimony.
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Sheila was in the house. Jeremy had to break in, thus risking alerting everyone - barking dogs, unusual sounds in the night.
Sheila had to control two adults, Jeremy three. There is a difference.
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In actual fact the evidence indicated that everyone except the twins were awake and not sleeping. Thus giving weight to Jeremy's testimony.
Well June was shot with her head on the pillow. Thread already created. So almost certainly asleep.
Neville moved his torso from the bed just before getting shot.
The twins stayed asleep.
Sheila had to be out of bed. But there no reason why she would wake. Thread already created.
Silencer & loose window/quiet entrance anyone ?
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Well June was shot with her head on the pillow. Thread already created. So almost certainly asleep.
Neville moved his torso from the bed just before getting shot.
The twins stayed asleep.
Sheila had to be out of bed. But there no reason why she would wake. Thread already created.
Silencer & loose window/quiet entrance anyone ?
The plain facts are as far as we know ALL the adults were awake and as far as Sheila is concerned she was out of bed and there are no signs of a struggle or blood in her room. Everyone except the twins were awake. They are the facts as we know them whatever interpretation you may have put on it. There are no signs that Ralph was shot with his head on the pillow. If he was taken by surprise like that then by default he would have been dead in bed and so would June as well.
In fact Sheila was found dead in her parents room. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that she was carried there, only conjecture by you because that is the way you want it to look like.
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The plain facts are as far as we know ALL the adults were awake and as far as Sheila is concerned she was out of bed and there are no signs of a struggle or blood in her room. Everyone except the twins were awake. They are the facts as we know them whatever interpretation you may have put on it. There are no signs that Ralph was shot with his head on the pillow. If he was taken by surprise like that then by default he would have been dead in bed and so would June as well.
In fact Sheila was found dead in her parents room. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that she was carried there, only conjecture by you because that is the way you want it to look like.
I never said Neville was shot with his head on the pillow. He moved just before that happened. Being shot next to June by their bed. Either escaping from or following Jeremy after he went downstairs to re load.
June was shot with her head on the pillow. So almost certainly asleep. Thread already created. She staggered a few feet from the bed and died on the floor.
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I never said Neville was shot with his head on the pillow. He moved just before that happened. Being shot next to June by their bed. Either escaping from or following Jeremy after he went downstairs to re load.
June was shot with her head on the pillow. So almost certainly asleep. Thread already created. She staggered a few feet from the bed and died on the floor.
June died from a shot between her eyes. There is nothing that indicates that Nevill moved just before being shot. Or that he was chased downstairs by Jeremy. The facts tell us that all adults were awake when killed.
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June died from a shot between her eyes. There is nothing that indicates that Nevill moved just before being shot. Or that he was chased downstairs by Jeremy. The facts tell us that all adults were awake when killed.
Grahame, whilst we may differ on who shot him, clearly he had BEEN shot because his blood was found on the stair wall. He was either attempting, in a weakened state, to give chase OR was being urged downstairs by the shooter.
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I could control 6 burly men if I was brandishing a rifle.
What a stupid thread !
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Hi lookout bet you could control 6 burly men without the aid of the rifle ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi lookout bet you could control 6 burly men without the aid of the rifle ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D,oh Susan,you are awful-----------but I like you.
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Grahame, whilst we may differ on who shot him, clearly he had BEEN shot because his blood was found on the stair wall. He was either attempting, in a weakened state, to give chase OR was being urged downstairs by the shooter.
He was not shot in the bed. That was the argument.
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Hi lookout bet you could control 6 burly men without the aid of the rifle ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I would run.
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I would run.
Aww,Mr G,would you ? ??? I am disappointed in you. :( :-[ I'm no Mussolini in knickers,you know ;D
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Aww,Mr G,would you ? ??? I am disappointed in you. :( :-[ I'm no Mussolini in knickers,you know ;D
LOOKOUT!!!! Surely you're not telling Grahame that you're Mussolini WITHOUT knockers -ooops, sorry, knickers ;D ;D ;D
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LOOKOUT!!!! Surely you're not telling Grahame that you're Mussolini WITHOUT knockers -ooops, sorry, knickers ;D ;D ;D
I can imagine the picture he's painted,April,oh dear. ;D ;D ;D He must think I'm a proper NoNook of the North.Or should that be,Nanouk.? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I could control 6 burly men if I was brandishing a rifle.
What a stupid thread !
Well this is a Jeremy Bamber forum.
The crime was committed by one of two people. So this thread was to discuss who was in the best position to carry out a successful massacre. Which is something the jury would discuss.
If you think it is a 'stupid thread', feel free to create you're own. I do not recall any from you.
Just making up things and telling me to 'find it yourself' when I ask for a source. Or making negative comments on other posts will not assist Jeremy or contribute to the forum.
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Well this is a Jeremy Bamber forum.
The crime was committed by one of two people. So this thread was to discuss who was in the best position to carry out a successful massacre. Which is something the jury would discuss.
If you think it is a 'stupid thread', feel free to create you're own. I do not recall any from you.
Just making up things and telling me to 'find it yourself' when I ask for a source. Or making negative comments on other posts will not assist Jeremy or contribute to the forum.
You seem to forget that I was here TWO YEARS before you came on the scene,so I've done all I intend to do,and one thing I won't do,is keep repeating myself like you do just to form threads or write posts.
This thread is a joke,hence why boredom set in,as it does with most of your threads.
Let me remind you that it's not the quantity of posts------------but the quality of them !
Negative comments ?? That's your department isn't it ?
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You seem to forget that I was here TWO YEARS before you came on the scene,so I've done all I intend to do,and one thing I won't do,is keep repeating myself like you do just to form threads or write posts.
This thread is a joke,hence why boredom set in,as it does with most of your threads.
Let me remind you that it's not the quantity of posts------------but the quality of them !
Negative comments ?? That's your department isn't it ? Cheeky brat.
If you have 'done all you intend to do' why do you keep posting ?
How long you have been here is neither here or there. This issue had not been discussed before. But would have been discussed by the jury and appeal courts.
My threads have not been discussed before. Which is why I create them. But feel free to create threads highlighting Jeremy's innocence. I do not recall any.
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If you have 'done all you intend to do' why do you keep posting ?
How long you have been here is neither here or there. This issue had not been discussed before. But would have been discussed by the jury and appeal courts.
My threads have not been discussed before. Which is why I create them. But feel free to create threads highlighting Jeremy's innocence.
I post to annoy you,like you do to most of us !
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If you have 'done all you intend to do' why do you keep posting ?
How long you have been here is neither here or there. This issue had not been discussed before. But would have been discussed by the jury and appeal courts.
My threads have not been discussed before. Which is why I create them. But feel free to create threads highlighting Jeremy's innocence. I do not recall any.
You're correct. The length of time spent here IS neither here nor there....................and neither is the NUMBER of threads created. That you receive so few responses to those threads says much about what people think of their content, don't you think?
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Pity he didn't take a leaf out of Steves' book,April.
I'm in no way making comparisons,because there aren't any !!
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Pity he didn't take a leaf out of Steves' book,April.
I'm in no way making comparisons,because there aren't any !!
No, Lookout. One can barely say their names in the same breath!!
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You're correct. The length of time spent here IS neither here nor there....................and neither is the NUMBER of threads created. That you receive so few responses to those threads says much about what people think of their content, don't you think?
Well this thread has got over 40 replies. If you ignore Lookout's contribution which just said it was a 'stupid thread'. And you're contribution, because you only post to or about me.
Why don't you create any threads ? You are interested enough in the case to post on here. You felt passionately that Jeremy was innocent until earlier this year. A thread on why you changed you're mind or anything else might encourage discussion.
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Well this thread has got over 40 replies. If you ignore Lookout's contribution which just said it was a 'stupid thread'. And you're contribution, because you only post to or about me.
Why don't you create any threads ? You are interested enough in the case to post on here. You felt passionately that Jeremy was innocent until earlier this year. A thread on why you changed you're mind or anything else might encourage discussion.
its got 23 replies?
And lookout and April have posted on lots of other threads and have been very clear about their opinions .So I think your post is well out of order. A discussion means joining in on threads not creating them. Its not a competition.
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its got 23 replies?
And lookout and April have posted on lots of other threads and have been very clear about their opinions .So I think your post is well out of order. A discussion means joining in on threads not creating them. Its not a competition.
Who do you think was in the best position to carry out a successful massacre ?
It is an important question.
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So--------------30/40 people can't overcome ONE gunman in the Sydney siege !!
What chance 2 adults and 2 children.? I said this was a stupid thread,didn't I ??
Why wasn't Jeremy permitted on the loud-hailer ??
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Adam,why couldn't a handful of men overpower this guy who's holding people hostage ? One man,One gun.
You were busy saying that it was impossible for Sheila to " fight " her father.
Would you argue with anyone brandishing a gun ? Truth please.
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Adam,why couldn't a handful of men overpower this guy who's holding people hostage ? One man,One gun.
You were busy saying that it was impossible for Sheila to " fight " her father.
Would you argue with anyone brandishing a gun ? Truth please.
It´s because Sheila was a woman; Adam considers women to be incapable of most things. They can be picked out of bed without waking up like little babies!
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Adam,why couldn't a handful of men overpower this guy who's holding people hostage ? One man,One gun.
You were busy saying that it was impossible for Sheila to " fight " her father.
Would you argue with anyone brandishing a gun ? Truth please.
Another big reason why they waited today - they could see and hear what was happening whereas when they got to WHF - there was silence ( except for the dog ) and allegedly no movement at all . A completely different scenario.
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It´s because Sheila was a woman; Adam considers women to be incapable of most things. They can be picked out of bed without waking up like little babies!
Obviously he hasn't been at the wrong end of a gun?
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So--------------30/40 people can't overcome ONE gunman in the Sydney siege !!
What chance 2 adults and 2 children.? I said this was a stupid thread,didn't I ??
Why wasn't Jeremy permitted on the loud-hailer ??
Because he wasn't trained - you wouldn't let someone who'd done a first aid course take the reins from the paramedics after a head on collision - would you? ;)
They would be aware that he could easily have said the wrong thing leading to devastation.
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Obviously he hasn't been at the wrong end of a gun?
YET :)
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Obviously he hasn't been at the wrong end of a gun?
Not many of us have :)
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YET :)
Shhhh.....It's near Christmas and the turkeys haven't been shot yet. ;D
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It´s because Sheila was a woman; Adam considers women to be incapable of most things. They can be picked out of bed without waking up like little babies!
I have seen men not much bigger than Jeremy bench press & squat 100 kilos. Which is over 15 stone. So do not see why someone only around 7 stone cannot be carried a few feet.
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I have seen men not much bigger than Jeremy bench press & squat 100 kilos. Which is over 15 stone. So do not see why someone only around 7 stone cannot be carried a few feet.
She would wake up, Adam!
Let me ask you: do you think you would wake up if someone came into your bedroom, picked you out of bed, carried you into another room and placed you on the floor? Before that, there had been extensinve shooting and fighting going on in your house.
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She would wake up, Adam!
Let me ask you: do you think you would wake up if someone came into your bedroom, picked you out of bed, carried you into another room and placed you on the floor? Before that, there had been extensinve shooting and fighting going on in your house.
She may start to wake during the 5 - 10 seconds it takes to carry her. She may not.
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She may start to wake during the 5 - 10 seconds it takes to carry her. She may not.
Do you think you would wake up if someone came into your bedroom and grabbed you in the middle of the night?
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There was no reason she should wake during June's & Neville's massacre.
It's not grabbing. It's putting you're arms under their knees and back and carrying.
I am a deep sleeper. So may not wake if someone carried me a few feet without exerting effort. It's never been tried on me.
This thread is about controlling 4/5 adults. It is clear Jeremy had the much easier task as he chose the perfect time for an execution. There is already a thread about whether Sheila was carried to the main bedroom.
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There was no reason she should wake during June's & Neville's massacre. Thread already created.
It's not grabbing. It's putting you're arms under their knees and back and carrying.
I am a deep sleeper. So may not wake if someone carried me a few feet without exerting effort. It's never been tried on me.
This thread is about controlling 4/5 adults. It is clear Jeremy had the much easier task as he chose the perfect time for an execution. There is already a thread about whether Sheila was carried to the main bedroom.
It is still a non-starter with me that Jeremy carried Sheila into the bedroom. In fact I find it crazy that you keep hammering on this. Is it to wind people up - or do you really believe in this yourself?
And again, I don´t care about threads you have already created. Do you think others here do?
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It´s because Sheila was a woman; Adam considers women to be incapable of most things. They can be picked out of bed without waking up like little babies!
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You brought it up.
Anyway. She was either lead carried or retreated to the far corner.
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You brought it up.
Anyway. She was either lead carried or retreated to the far corner.
I brought what up?
You keep saying she was carried - I´ll make a poll to see it anyone thinks like you.
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I brought what up?
You keep saying she was carried - I´ll make a poll to see it anyone thinks like you.
I just posted you're post bringing it up.
You think it's impossible for a grown man to carry a light woman a few feet. I don't.
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I just posted you're post bringing it up.
You think it's impossible for a grown man to carry a light woman a few feet. I don't.
I don´t think you can do it without the woman waking up and resisting, unless she is totally unconscious. Women aren´t babies.
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Why are people arguing about something as ludicrous as Bamber supposedly carrying a sleeping Sheila? The is no evidence at all that such a thing every happened except in someones fertile imagination. ::)
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Why are people arguing about something as ludicrous as Bamber supposedly carrying a sleeping Sheila? The is no evidence at all that such a thing every happened except in someones fertile imagination. ::)
It´s a bit out there, isn´t it?!
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It´s a bit out there, isn´t it?!
Have you nothing else to say regarding the thread post ?
You have often said Jeremy could not have controlled the situation and needed an accomplice.
Similar to my 40 reasons why Neville would phone anyone, the subject is diverted.
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Have you nothing else to say regarding the thread post ?
You have often said Jeremy could not have controlled the situation and needed an accomplice.
Similar to my 40 reasons why Neville would phone anyone, the subject is diverted.
I have discussed this so often in the past. I stand by what I have said many times: I find it hard to believe that Jeremy would have expected to control five people without assistance.
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I have discussed this so often in the past. I stand by what I have said many times: I find it hard to believe that Jeremy would have expected to control five people without assistance.
Someone did. It must have Sheila then.
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Someone did. It must have Sheila then.
Perhaps Adam, but she would only have had to control two adults and two sleeping children + she was already in the house and wouldn´t have alerted anyone (at first) walking around.
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Have you nothing else to say regarding the thread post ?
You have often said Jeremy could not have controlled the situation and needed an accomplice.
Similar to my 40 reasons why Neville would phone anyone, the subject is diverted.
Rather than the 40 dubious reasons that you have dreamed up as to why Nevill would not have phoned Jeremy, what about the one genuine reason that he would have phoned him, For the reason Jeremy said in his statement?
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Someone did. It must have Sheila then.
You cannot think of any way that Jeremy could control 3 adults so you have to resort to creating a scenario where everyone is asleep where the evidence indicated they were not only awake, but also not where they were supposed to be. If Jeremy had shot them when they were asllep they would all be dead in bed. Pure logic especially if he was using a silencer.
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You cannot think of any way that Jeremy could control 3 adults so you have to resort to creating a scenario where everyone is asleep where the evidence indicated they were not only awake, but also not where they were supposed to be. If Jeremy had shot them when they were asllep they would all be dead in bed. Pure logic especially if he was using a silencer.
Well as said the twins were asleep.
June was shot with her head on the pillow so certainly asleep.
Neville was shot four times right next to the bed June was laying in. He probably moved seconds before also getting a fatal pillow cushion shot while in bed.
It was 2am. People are usually asleep at that time. It is the perfect time to commit an execution. Everyone in the house together. Asleep. In fact there was no other appropriate time for him to commit the massacre.
Sheila could 'go crazy' at any time. But by coincidence chose the perfect time for Jeremy to commit an execution.
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Well as said the twins were asleep.
June was shot with her head on the pillow so certainly asleep.
Neville was shot four times right next to the bed June was laying in. He probably moved seconds before also getting a fatal pillow cushion shot while in bed.
It was 2am. People are usually asleep at that time. It is the perfect time to commit an execution. Everyone in the house together. Asleep. In fact there was no other appropriate time for him to commit the massacre.
Sheila could 'go crazy' at any time. But by coincidence chose the perfect time for Jeremy to commit an execution.
Suddenly Jeremy becomes a rotten shot? If everyone was asleep as you suggest (evidence clearly shows that they were awake) then he had all the time in the world to take careful aim and kill them all outright. This did not happen, so it is yet another indication that they were awake.
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Reading of the horror that occurred in Australia,a young barrister shielded her pregnant friend from gunfire and sadly lost her own life with her very brave and courageous act,saving her friend. RIP Katrina,you brave and courageous lady.
This is what I WOULD have expected from any of the THREE adults at WHF when thinking about the twins ! Why didn't Sheila,of all people,throw herself onto her boys.I would have done !! No matter what--------------my family come first. In any instance,I'd be prepared to sacrifice my life for theirs,it's what a NORMAL person does,but I wouldn't want any medals !!
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6235.0.html
For Lookout. Created only recently. Re: Sheila not fighting back.
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You don't get it do you ?
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You don't get it do you ?
Neither do I lookout.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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You don't WANT to get it do you ? It doesn't fit your tin-pot way of thinking.