Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on December 06, 2014, 10:04:AM
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The judge called Neville's call 'difficult or impossible to understand and explain' / 'mysterious'. He is correct as there are a lot of reasons why Neville would not call Jeremy -
Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not.
Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority.
He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'.
Neville may only get the answering machine.
Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'.
Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness. So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down.
Sheila did not like Jeremy.
Another adult, June was available at WHF.
The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed.
The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier.
Neville would be putting his only son in danger.
Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.
Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable. Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows.
Sheila would not be pleased to see him.
Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family.
Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed.
Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things.
Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option.
Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option.
Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone.
Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.
There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun.
When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist.
There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.
Relations between the two were poor and getting worse. After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money.
Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him.
The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs.
If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut.
Other doors in Bamber's cottage may also be shut.
Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family.
Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes.
Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene.
Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not.
Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance. This is what happened.
Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened.
Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police.
It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening.
Do people believe after 29 years, it is time for closure on this issue ?
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When did the judge use the word, "mysterious" about the alleged phonecall?
I hope it was after the verdict. A judge is supposed to be impartial and leave it to the prosecution and defence to try to influence the jury.
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in practice judges hardly ever do though.
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in practice judges hardly ever do though.
I have followed a couple of court cases online. In those the judges did stay completely neutral. They can air their opinions and thoughts after the verdict at sentencing, not before.
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were the us cases or uk cases.
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were the us cases or uk cases.
They were us cases.
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in the us a jusge isnt allowed to some on the facts in most states only the law in the uk the judge can say any old bollocks he likes and they often do.
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in the us a jusge isnt allowed on the facts in most states only the law in the uk the judge can say any old bollocks he likes and they often do.
I didn´t know that. It doesn´t seem fair!
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well if the summing up was to biaised it can be grounds for appeal but that on its own is unlikely to work.
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A judges summing up can mention more about alleged guilt or innocence. Depending on the evidence presented at trial.
Jeremy's first appeal was on the judge. After it was dismissed he focused on the silencer.
There is a thread on the judges summing up.
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The judge was a nincompoop. The reason Nevill phoned Jeremy should be obvious even to the most idiotic numbskull. The only reason they don't believe it is because they want to believe Jeremy is guilty. And that is the ONLY reason. For if they were to acknowledge that phone call then it would mean Jeremy is innocent of the crime. So they only way for them is to deny it giving silly and foolish reasons as to why he wouldn't call him. A very easy thing to deny I should say. Why? Oh because it was never meant to be an alibi for Jeremy that's why.
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The judge was a nincompoop. The reason Nevill phoned Jeremy should be obvious even to the most idiotic numbskull. The only reason they don't believe it is because they want to believe Jeremy is guilty. And that is the ONLY reason. For if they were to acknowledge that phone call then it would mean Jeremy is innocent of the crime. So they only way for them is to deny it giving silly and foolish reasons as to why he wouldn't call him. A very easy thing to deny I should say. Why? Oh because it was never meant to be an alibi for Jeremy that's why.
It's not a case of 'wanting' to believe Jeremy is guilty at all. Personally I don't believe the call happened because he is now willing to completely change the times in order to fit in a call from Neville. What is true now, was true then - you can't just change the time to suit.
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It wasn't just Jeremy unsure of times. Police couldn't read clocks, neither it seems could JM or her flatmates.
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I am very surprised Jan has not gone through each reasons on my thread post in her red writing. Mind you there are nearly 40 reasons why Neville would not call Jeremy.
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The only reason I have been given for Neville calling Jeremy is that he needed his support :)
Neville was 9 inches taller and about 5 stone heavier than Sheila. He also had another adult at WHF to assist him. So not sure why he would ring Jeremy, who refused to go within 50 yards of WHF on the night.
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What has height/weight got to do with anything when the aggressor is wavering a rifle at its victim ??
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There have been incidents in America of 4 and 5 year olds " playing " with a gun that was carelessly left out,and when the parent/s have witnessed this,they've naturally been very cautious when removing the weapon from the child. So here you have 3ft odd height against a possible 6ft. The stumbling block being the gun and NOT the height of the person holding it !!
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It's not a case of 'wanting' to believe Jeremy is guilty at all. Personally I don't believe the call happened because he is now willing to completely change the times in order to fit in a call from Neville. What is true now, was true then - you can't just change the time to suit.
Well something must have changed Caroline, or you wouldn't have changed your belief abut the call happening?
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Well something must have changed Caroline, or you wouldn't have changed your belief abut the call happening?
I've said MANY times why I changed my mind. It's not a case of 'wanting' him to be guilty, admitting you have changed your mind when you have argued as vehemently as I did, the other way, isn't easy. But I'm not going to lie about what I think. The phone call always bothered me, but I played it down until I could think of a decent explanation - I never found one. I'm sure there are things that bug you and that make you question innocence? When there are enough of them, you can't ignore them any longer. I'm not saying I think he's guilty just to p**s on people's chips - it's what I believe and if people accepted that it's nothing personal against them,debate might be a LOT easier!
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I've said MANY times why I changed my mind. It's not a case of 'wanting' him to be guilty, admitting you have changed your mind when you have argued as vehemently as I did, the other way, isn't easy. But I'm not going to lie about what I think. The phone call always bothered me, but I played it down until I could think of a decent explanation - I never found one. I'm sure there are things that bug you and that make you question innocence? When there are enough of them, you can't ignore them any longer. I'm not saying I think he's guilty just to p**s on people's chips - it's what I believe and if people accepted that it's nothing personal against them,debate might be a LOT easier!
Can I follow that by adding that there are beliefs I held when I thought he was innocent that, even though I've changed my mind, I STILL hold to be true. One of the reasons that this case is so complex is the sub plots going on in the background.
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Can I follow that by adding that there are beliefs I held when I thought he was innocent that, even though I've changed my mind, I STILL hold to be true. One of the reasons that this case is so complex is the sub plots going on in the background.
Me too - the silencer for instance, still think that was planted.
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i think its got to be 4 policeman checked the cupboard and dident see it.
and if jeremy had used the silencer i dont think he would be asking for tests to be done on it beouse he would know that would prove his guilt.
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i think its got to be 4 policeman checked the cupboard and dident see it.
and if jeremy had used the silencer i dont think he would be asking for tests to be done on it beouse he would know that would prove his guilt.
And we have Adam -who we rather wish we didn't!!!- having him trailing bloodied clothes around Europe whilst LEAVING an in criminating silencer right under the noses of the police. I DON'T THINK SO.
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you would think a silencer would be a priorty to get rid of.
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you would a silencer would be a priorty to get rid of.
You certainly would, Nugs :)
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And we have Adam -who we rather wish we didn't!!!- having him trailing bloodied clothes around Europe whilst LEAVING an in criminating silencer right under the noses of the police. I DON'T THINK SO.
This thread is about closure of the ridiculous claim about Neville calling Jeremy.
I created a recent thread about closure of blooded clothing disposal. That is if there was blood. As well as threads on the silencer.
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The judge called Neville's call 'difficult or impossible to understand and explain' / 'mysterious'. He is correct as there are a lot of reasons why Neville would not call Jeremy -
Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not.
Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority.
He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'.
Neville may only get the answering machine.
Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'.
Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness. So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down.
Sheila did not like Jeremy.
Another adult, June was available at WHF.
The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed.
The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier.
Neville would be putting his only son in danger.
Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.
Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable. Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows.
Sheila would not be pleased to see him.
Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family.
Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed.
Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things.
Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option.
Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option.
Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone.
Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.
There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun.
When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist.
There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.
Relations between the two were poor and getting worse. After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money.
Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him.
The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs.
If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut.
Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family.
Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes.
Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene.
Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not.
Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance. This is what happened.
Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened.
Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police.
It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening.
Do people believe after 29 years, it is time for closure on this issue ?
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A reminder of the reasons.
Reading everything about Jeremy, both pro and anti, it is amazing that people believe Neville would ring him.
If Neville thought Jeremy was going to rush over, go through the loose window & restrain Sheila, Neville was wrong. Very wrong.
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This thread is about closure of the ridiculous claim about Neville calling Jeremy.
I created a recent thread about closure of blooded clothing disposal. That is if there was blood. As well as threads on the silencer.
Were you expecting a medal?
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You certainly would, Nugs :)
it would be my top priority i think to get rid of more than the clothes.
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Were you expecting a medal?
That would be nice.
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it would be my top priority i think to get rid of more than the clothes.
Well Nugs, if we think about the time it would have taken for him to do totally irrelevant things he's SAID to have done, one HAS to wonder why, if he was going to put a bloodied and hairy silencer in a cupboard, didn't he use a nail brush or scrubbing brush on it first.....................OR, even more sensibly, toss it into the creek.
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This thread is about closure of the ridiculous claim about Neville calling Jeremy.
I created a recent thread about closure of blooded clothing disposal. That is if there was blood. As well as threads on the silencer.
Of which there are many and this one wasn't required.
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Of which there are many and this one wasn't required.
But they weren´t Adam´s, so he wouldn´t be able to say: thread already created.
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Well Nugs, if we think about the time it would have taken for him to do totally irrelevant things he's SAID to have done, one HAS to wonder why, if he was going to put a bloodied and hairy silencer in a cupboard, didn't he use a nail brush or scrubbing brush on it first.....................OR, even more sensibly, toss it into the creek.
i would of thought he would dispose of it with the clothes.
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That would be nice.
Why do you think you're deserving of such?
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i would of thought he would dispose of it with the clothes.
Yes, he could have dropped it in the North Sea or English Channel according to which route he took to Holland.
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after taking them both trough customs.
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after taking them both trough customs.
Yes, you know how customs like to search everyone's suitcases looking for drops of dried blood on clothes. Forget about the cannabis Jeremy was smuggling.
There is a thread on the clothes disposal. This thread is about closure on Neville phoning Jeremy. It is time for closure.
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Yes, you know how customs like to search everyone's suitcases looking for drops of dried blood on clothes. Forget about the cannabis Jeremy was smuggling.
There is a thread on the clothes disposal. This thread is about closure on Neville phoning Jeremy. It is time for closure.
Off you go, then. We won't keep you.
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Yes, you know how customs like to search everyone's suitcases looking for drops of dried blood on clothes. Forget about the cannabis Jeremy was smuggling.
There is a thread on the clothes disposal. This thread is about closure on Neville phoning Jeremy. It is time for closure.
do you think the sniffer dogs wouldent of smelt blood.
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Off you go, then. We won't keep you.
Do you think it's time for closure on Neville's call ?
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Do you think it's time for closure on Neville's call ?
What you and I think is totally irrelevant, Adam. If members wish to believe and discuss a call they think was made by Neville, it's their right to do so, NOT YOURS to attempt to call time on it. Should that be done to your posts, MOST would disappear.
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how can there be closure unless its proved for fact it was or wasn't made.
and our friend from british telcom says it cant be.
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Do you think it's time for closure on Neville's call ?
I think it's closure for your mouth.
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Isn't the fact that Jeremy's in prison closure enough for you ?? Why are you debating ?
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how can there be closure unless its proved for fact it was or wasn't made.
and our friend from british telcom says it cant be.
Well only one person is saying the call happened.
The police, DPP, relatives, Julie, appeal courts are saying they do not believe it happened.
My thread post gives nearly 40 facts why Neville would not call Jeremy. Even if Neville thought Jeremy would risk his life & charge inside WHF (which he didn't).
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Me too - the silencer for instance, still think that was planted.
But that was a crucial piece of evidence. If you think that it was planted, then why do you not accept that the police could have lied about other things and even question that the one who professed to love Jeremy so much, but could never find anything good to say about him?
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Well only one person is saying the call happened.
The police, DPP, relatives, Julie, appeal courts are saying they do not believe it happened.
My thread post gives nearly 40 facts why Neville would not call Jeremy. Even if Neville thought Jeremy would risk his life & charge inside WHF (which he didn't).
its fact that you cant prove the call dident happen.
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But that was a crucial piece of evidence. If you think that it was planted, then why do you not accept that the police could have lied about other things and even question that the one who professed to love Jeremy so much, but could never find anything good to say about him?
Do you believe it is time for closure on Neville's mysterious call ?
Or did Neville & June desperately need Jeremy ? :)
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its fact that you cant prove the call dident happen.
Well there are nearly 40 facts why Neville would not phone Jeremy at 3am.
Do you think Neville did ?
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i certanly think a phonecall was made.
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Well there are nearly 40 facts why Neville would not phone Jeremy at 3am.
Do you think Neville did ?
Correction. 40 products of a somewhat "other" mind set.
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i certanly think a phonecall was made.
So do I. Just because certain people don't believe it makes no difference at all. If it didn't happen then he is certainly guilty and our discussions here are in vain. Prove that it didn't happen then I will change my mind.
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i certanly think a phonecall was made.
Count me in too.
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i certanly think a phonecall was made.
Why did Neville phone Jeremy ?
And how was Sheila going 'crazy' when the call was made ? Do you agree with Grahame that Neville phoned after Sheila started shooting everyone upstairs.
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So do I. Just because certain people don't believe it makes no difference at all. If it didn't happen then he is certainly guilty and our discussions here are in vain. Prove that it didn't happen then I will change my mind.
Why do you think Neville called Jeremy ?
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Count me in too.
Why do you think Neville would ignore nearly 40 facts showing phoning Jeremy impractical ?
Neville would surely know he wouldn't go within 50 yards of WHF if guns were mentioned.
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Is there a rule against repetitive posts?
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Why do you think Neville called Jeremy ?
You whine like a spoilt child when you're referred to as being stupid or thick. Whilst that MAY not be so, you're doing as first rate job of acting as if it is. You've asked why we think Neville called Jeremy and HOW Sheila was "going crazy" until posters become sick of both it and you. YOU'VE set up threads on it. NOW go look for yourself.
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Is there a rule against repetitive posts?
Do you believe Neville phoned anyone. Or are you still 'undecided' ?
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Is there a rule against repetitive posts?
Just bypass his posts and threads,he'll soon get the message. I'm pretty pi55ed off seeing the repeats.
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In a nutshell -
Neville would only call his son if he thought he could save everyone's life. But if Neville & June can't....
Once a decision is made that Jeremy may be able to save everyone, other things have to be ignored -
It's 3am.
Jeremy is 3 miles away.
The answering machine may be on
Plus another 40 odd reasons on page one.
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Adam you are being a menace and annoying everyone, the moment someone loses patience you will be complaining and moaning. Please stop being so disruptive.
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On the night Jeremy told police Sheila was a nutter, do lally, looney & a psychotic depressive. He also told the police she had committed child abuse against the twins.
After the massacre he told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going into the nut house & he is the only one who knows this.
Neville would surely know Jeremy's views on Sheila. As well as his resentment on her subsidised life. So the last person he would ring would be Jeremy.
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In a nutshell -
Neville would only call his son if he thought he could save everyone's life. But if Neville & June can't....
Once a decision is made that Jeremy may be able to save everyone, other things have to be ignored -
It's 3am.
Jeremy is 3 miles away.
The answering machine may be on
Plus another 40 odd reasons on page one.
Adam, it sounds as if you live in a fantasy world which no one else -from which ever side of the divide they are- agrees with.
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Adam you are being a menace and annoying everyone, the moment someone loses patience you will be complaining and moaning. Please stop being so disruptive.
I am discussing the case.
Jeremy's supporters have said they believe Neville made the call. But are not saying why or disputing the 40 odd facts on why he would not.
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I am discussing the case.
Jeremy's supporters have said they believe Neville made the call. But are not saying why or disputing the 40 odd facts on why he would not.
No, you're not. By dragging up things which have been discussed LONG before you arrived and FAR too many times since, you're making a ******* nuisance of yourself, but perhaps it's the only way you can get people to talk to you.
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I am discussing the case.
Jeremy's supporters have said they believe Neville made the call. But are not saying why or disputing the 40 odd facts on why he would not.
Adam you don't need to ask the same question or versions of it over and over, if you don't get a reaction the first time repeating it probably won't help.
You seem more interested in causing disruption than discussing the case.
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It's a very important issue on whether Neville telephoned anyone. It is almost certain he didn't and it's perhaps time for closure as my thread has said.
Supporters on this thread have tried to change the subject to the silencer & clothes disposal. Although there are threads on these.
Other supporters have said they believe a call was made, but have refused to elaborate. Or comment on the 40 odd reasons why the call theory is ridiculous.
Other people have tried to deflect attention towards me.
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its clear that at the erlary stages of the case the police thhought a call happends as well.
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April,he won't debate about anything else,only his own threads which we're all fed-up to the back teeth with. There's FAR MORE to this case as he well knows,but for some unknown reason he won't discuss the hundreds of other points,never mind his 40 reasons why Neville wouldn't phone.
Adam,the case WILL be cut and dried next year------------then what will you do ? Continue to argue the toss ? After all the points that other posters have made-----------except yours,as you'll fail miserably.
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People are entitled to argue my 40 odd facts.
If they believe that June was not sufficient support for Neville & Jeremy would not answer the phone before the answering machine came on etc, are not good enough reasons to deter Neville phoning, then say so.
But it seems everyone agrees with these as no one has disagreed. But then how can they believe the call was made ?
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It's a very important issue on whether Neville telephoned anyone. It is almost certain he didn't and it's perhaps time for closure as my thread has said.
Supporters on this thread have tried to change the subject to the silencer & clothes disposal. Although there are threads on these.
Other supporters have said they believe a call was made, but have refused to elaborate. Or comment on the 40 odd reasons why the call theory is ridiculous.
Other people have tried to deflect attention towards me.
Well, if you insist on behaving like an attention seeking ***** WHY are you surprised when you get what you want?
Incidentally, one deflects FROM not TO.
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It's a very important issue on whether Neville telephoned anyone. It is almost certain he didn't and it's perhaps time for closure as my thread has said.
Supporters on this thread have tried to change the subject to the silencer & clothes disposal. Although there are threads on these.
Other supporters have said they believe a call was made, but have refused to elaborate. Or comment on the 40 odd reasons why the call theory is ridiculous.
Other people have tried to deflect attention towards me.
Everyone is aware of your opinions and most people are bored and fed up with hearing you repeat them over and over. Can you please stop goading or you may find yourself gardening again. Just cool it Adam.
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Hopefully Jan will go through my 40 odd facts in her red writing. At least there can then be some discussion.
Or someone on here might actually say 'why' Neville would phone Jeremy. Mind you one reason does not negate 40. But it's a start and can at least be discussed.
If people think Neville called because he believed Jeremy would rush over & calm Sheila down, just say. Supporters must have a reason.
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In a nutshell -
Neville would only call his son if he thought he could save everyone's life. But if Neville & June can't....
Once a decision is made that Jeremy may be able to save everyone, other things have to be ignored -
It's 3am.
Jeremy is 3 miles away.
The answering machine may be on
Plus another 40 odd reasons on page one.
Wrong. Nevill would have phoned Jeremy because he needed help to control his sister who ha gone crazy just as she had in the past.
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Wrong. Nevill would have phoned Jeremy because he needed help to control his sister who ha gone crazy just as she had in the past.
Do you think Neville would have ignored the 40 odd facts on page one ?
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Those are not facts. They are all imaginative assumptions dreamed up by yourself. Most of them would not apply. The suggestion that I gave was a logical one, that Ralph would have phoned Jeremy for his help with Sheila who had thrown one of her tantrums, what had apparently happened before. If was obvious that Ralph did not expect Sheila to use the gun?
It is possible that as he heard her upstairs and the gun went off that he went to hang up the phone, missed the cradle and at the same time hitting the button in the cradle cutting off the phone and thus making it impossible for anyone to phone back?
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1: Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not.
2:Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority.
3:He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'.
4: Neville may only get the answering machine.
5: Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'.
6: Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness. So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down.
7: Sheila did not like Jeremy.
8: Another adult, June was available at WHF.
9: The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
10: Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
11: Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
12: Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
13: Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed.
14: The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier.
15: Neville would be putting his only son in danger.
16: Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.
17: Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable. Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows.
18: Sheila would not be pleased to see him.
19: Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family.
20: Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed.
21: Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things.
22: Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option.
23: Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option.
24: Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone.
25: Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.
26: There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun.
27: When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist.
28: There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.
28: Relations between the two were poor and getting worse. After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money.
30: Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him.
31: The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs.
32: If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut.
33: Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family.
34: Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes.
35: Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene.
36: Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not.
37: Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance. This is what happened.
38: Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened.
39: Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police.
40: It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening.
Exactly 40 ! All facts, unless, don't tell me June was not there :)
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1: Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not.
2:Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority.
3:He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'.
4: Neville may only get the answering machine.
5: Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'.
6: Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness. So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down.
7: Sheila did not like Jeremy.
8: Another adult, June was available at WHF.
9: The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
10: Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
11: Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
12: Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
13: Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed.
14: The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier.
15: Neville would be putting his only son in danger.
16: Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.
17: Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable. Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows.
18: Sheila would not be pleased to see him.
19: Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family.
20: Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed.
21: Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things.
22: Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option.
23: Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option.
24: Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone.
25: Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.
26: There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun.
27: When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist.
28: There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.
28: Relations between the two were poor and getting worse. After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money.
30: Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him.
31: The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs.
32: If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut.
33: Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family.
34: Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes.
35: Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene.
36: Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not.
37: Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance. This is what happened.
38: Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened.
39: Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police.
40: It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening.
Exactly 40 ! All facts, unless, don't tell me June was not there :)
Yes I have already given my opinion on that in the post just before you posted your list here.
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1: Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not.
2:Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority.
3:He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'.
4: Neville may only get the answering machine.
5: Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'.
6: Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness. So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down.
7: Sheila did not like Jeremy.
8: Another adult, June was available at WHF.
9: The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
10: Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
11: Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
12: Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
13: Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed.
14: The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier.
15: Neville would be putting his only son in danger.
16: Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.
17: Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable. Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows.
18: Sheila would not be pleased to see him.
19: Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family.
20: Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed.
21: Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things.
22: Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option.
23: Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option.
24: Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone.
25: Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.
26: There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun.
27: When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist.
28: There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.
28: Relations between the two were poor and getting worse. After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money.
30: Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him.
31: The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs.
32: If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut.
33: Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family.
34: Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes.
35: Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene.
36: Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not.
37: Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance. This is what happened.
38: Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened.
39: Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police.
40: It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening.
Exactly 40 ! All facts, unless, don't tel
check the dictionary - these are not FACTS .
And if you think NB was going to sit there and weigh up your 40 "scenarios" before picking up the phone then I really do give up with you .
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check the dictionary - these are not FACTS .
And if you think NB was going to sit there and weigh up your 40 "scenarios" before picking up the phone then I really do give up with you .
Well he would already know most of these things beforehand.
Such as it was 3am and the rifle was not powerful .Together with several more basic things, such as Jeremy would be asleep three miles away, with his answering machine on. So it would not cross his mind to weigh up whether to ring him.
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Well he would already know most of these things beforehand.
Such as it was 3am and the rifle was not powerful .Together with several more basic things, such as Jeremy would be asleep three miles away, with his answering machine on. So it would not cross his mind to weigh up whether to ring him.
it was a powerful enough rifle to kill the family?
And like we have said before you don't know what had actually happened at the point of the call? so how can you make assumptions about his thoughts when you don't know what the situation was?
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it was a powerful enough rifle to kill the family?
And like we have said before you don't know what had actually happened at the point of the call? so how can you make assumptions about his thoughts when you don't know what the situation was?
Well Neville needed 8 bullets (several head shots) & a brutal beating to die. So would know he could afford a torso shot or two if Sheila reacted to a restraining attempt. He would also know Sheila was un cordinated and inexperienced with guns.
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Neville's call is really a double whammy.
No one can give a credible explanation of what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned. Which matches his words.
Then there are 40 facts on why Neville would not phone.
This is why I created the thread. Perhaps it's time for closure.
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as i said before the police to start with exepted there was a phonecall.
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Neville's call is really a double whammy.
No one can give a credible explanation of what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned. Which matches his words.
Then there are 40 facts on why Neville would not phone.
This is why I created the thread. Perhaps it's time for closure.
Good Lord, you are one annoying little bugger!
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Well Neville needed 8 bullets (several head shots) & a brutal beating to die. So would know he could afford a torso shot or two if Sheila reacted to a restraining attempt. He would also know Sheila was un cordinated and inexperienced with guns.
On the one hand you are saying that Ralph would phone the police first as Sheila had a gun and was going crazy. But on the other hand you say that the gun wasn't all that powerful anyway so he wouldn't have phone Jeremy for help?
But of course you must know that the most likely of scenarios was mine, because Ralph had help from Jeremy to restrain Sheila before and therefore it was the logical thing to do to phone Jeremy for help? Answering machines are no problem. I have one and it is always on, but it doesn't stop me from hearing the phone though. Jeremy's cottage was very small. If you saw it for yourself (I have) you would soon realise how easy it was to hear the phone from upstairs. I'm not sure whether Jeremy was sleeping "like a log" or not. But I know that in the phone call he made to his girlfriend that night he said he couldn't sleep. So mystery solved.
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On the one hand you are saying that Ralph would phone the police first as Sheila had a gun and was going crazy. But on the other hand you say that the gun wasn't all that powerful anyway so he wouldn't have phone Jeremy for help?
But of course you must know that the most likely of scenarios was mine, because Ralph had help from Jeremy to restrain Sheila before and therefore it was the logical thing to do to phone Jeremy for help? Answering machines are no problem. I have one and it is always on, but it doesn't stop me from hearing the phone though. Jeremy's cottage was very small. If you saw it for yourself (I have) you would soon realise how easy it was to hear the phone from upstairs. I'm not sure whether Jeremy was sleeping "like a log" or not. But I know that in the phone call he made to his girlfriend that night he said he couldn't sleep. So mystery solved.
Well Jeremy said 20 years later that Neville phoned the police ten minutes beforehand.
The rifle was not powerful. Which is why Jeremy enquired about buying a 5 bore shot gun.
Have you got a source that Neville had to call Jeremy before ? I thought Sheila lived in London & Jeremy in Essex.
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Well Jeremy said 20 years later that Neville phoned the police ten minutes beforehand.
The rifle was not powerful. Which is why Jeremy enquired about buying a 5 bore shot gun.
Have you got a source that Neville had to call Jeremy before ? I thought Sheila lived in London & Jeremy in Essex.
When they were both living together. I wonder why it isn't in that Wilkes book of yours?
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Well Jeremy said 20 years later that Neville phoned the police ten minutes beforehand.
The rifle was not powerful. Which is why Jeremy enquired about buying a 5 bore shot gun.
Have you got a source that Neville had to call Jeremy before ? I thought Sheila lived in London & Jeremy in Essex.
It seems like Jeremy was in place solving problems for Sheila and Colin. Once when she rammed her hand through a window and needed medical attention, once when she was not well and wanted to go home from a party. I´d be surprised if there weren´t other occasions.
Yes, Sheila lived in London. That didn´t prevent Freddie Emami from calling Nevill in Essex to come to his and Sheila´s aid when he feared for his life. Seems like that was the way the family operated.
How long would it take for Nevill to get from Essex to London - and how long would it take for Jeremy to get from Goldhanger to the WHF?
Your argument is weak.
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When they were both living together. I wonder why it isn't in that Wilkes book of yours?
Oh you mean before they were 6 & both went to boarding school.
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It seems like Jeremy was in place solving problems for Sheila and Colin. Once when she rammed her hand through a window and needed medical attention, once when she was not well and wanted to go home from a party. I´d be surprised if there weren´t other occasions.
Yes, Sheila lived in London. That didn´t prevent Freddie Emami from calling Nevill in Essex to come to his and Sheila´s aid when he feared for his life. Seems like that was the way the family operated.
How long would it take for Nevill to get from Essex to London - and how long would it take for Jeremy to get from Goldhanger to the WHF?
Your argument is weak.
Did Sheila have a rifle or attack anyone in London ?
Neville calmed Sheila down instantly when arriving in London. Pity he couldn't do it at WHF. And a pity Jeremy didn't.
You're argument is weak again.
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Did Sheila have a rifle or attack anyone in London ?
Neville calmed Sheila down instantly when arriving in London. Pity he couldn't do it at WHF. And a pity Jeremy didn't.
You're argument is weak again.
Jeremy had never attacked any one or used a rifle in anger either - so your point is?
And yes it was reported that her boyfriend FE was in fear of her. Also if you read colins book he said violence was always under the surface.
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Jeremy was an 'Inheritance killer'.
Most have no history of violence. Otherwise they would not be free to kill. Thread already created. Although Jeremy is an exception, committing a crime against his family in the same year.
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Jeremy was an 'Inheritance killer'.
Most have no history of violence. Otherwise they could not kill. Thread already created. Although Jeremy is an exception, committing a crime against his family in the same year.
They didn´t look like "Inheritance murders". Rather looked like frenzied attacks and overkill.
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They didn´t look like "Inheritance murders". Rather looked like frenzied attacks and overkill.
Not surpdised. Sheila was a 'looney'.
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Not surpdised. Sheila was a 'looney'.
Please don´t use this language about Sheila. You keep doing it.
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Please don´t use this language about Sheila. You keep doing it.
That is what Jeremy called her.
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That is what Jeremy called her.
Where is your proof of that?
And if he did: two wrongs don´t make a right, ever hear that, Adam? Sometimes you come across as totally insensitive.
You are very harsh on Jeremy - fair enough if you think he is guilty; but I never heard anything but foul language about Sheila out of your mouth, so to speak. I have never heard you express any form of compassion for the victims.
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Oh you mean before they were 6 & both went to boarding school.
No
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Jeremy was an 'Inheritance killer'.
Most have no history of violence. Otherwise they would not be free to kill. Thread already created. Although Jeremy is an exception, committing a crime against his family in the same year.
Who told you that?
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That is what Jeremy called her.
That's what RWB called her.
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Who told you that?
Because that's what is presumed to be the motive.
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Where is your proof of that?
And if he did: two wrongs don´t make a right, ever hear that, Adam? Sometimes you come across as totally insensitive.
You are very harsh on Jeremy - fair enough if you think he is guilty; but I never heard anything but foul language about Sheila out of your mouth, so to speak. I have never heard you express any form of compassion for the victims.
I totally agree with your post. Its like banging your head against a brick wall . A lot of non pc language was used by the police as well , but it does not mean we keep repeating it. Its not necessary .
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The judge was a nincompoop. The reason Nevill phoned Jeremy should be obvious even to the most idiotic numbskull. The only reason they don't believe it is because they want to believe Jeremy is guilty. And that is the ONLY reason. For if they were to acknowledge that phone call then it would mean Jeremy is innocent of the crime. So they only way for them is to deny it giving silly and foolish reasons as to why he wouldn't call him. A very easy thing to deny I should say. Why? Oh because it was never meant to be an alibi for Jeremy that's why.
This is a perfect example of how biased and irraitonal you are.
Not a single Jeremy supporter is willing to actually discuss the points raised by Adam let alone attempt to debate/refute the points.
Instead you just ignore them and make the unsupported statement it is obvious why Nevill would call Jeremy.
It is not obvious to a rational person which is one of the reasons why the jury chose not to believe the call never happened and why unbiased people who look at the case rationally don't believe it.
You even quit the board (returnig as I predicted though) because you admitted that Sheila would not have even known how to "charge" the rifle.
The allegation is she was there in the kitchen with him and grabbed the weapon. He would have seen as plain as day she didn't charge it and thus that it could not have harmed him if she actually grabbed the gun in his presence as Jeremy supporters claim.
If she didn't grab it in his presence and had to get it from the closet then went and woke up Nevill and June in their bedroom then obviously the call never happened because she would have opened fire then and there not have gone to the kitchen with Nevill and June to stay in bed sleeping.
More significantly though we know for a fact SHeila didn't load or fire the weapon nor did she beat anyone because the physical evidence establishes this. Since she never loaded or fired the weapon and was killed by someone else that means she didn't threaten Nevill with a gun or run around crazy so Nevill had no reaosn to call Jeremy claiming she did. Jeremy supporters choose the evidence that proves she didn't kill anyone including herself but the jury didn't.
Jeremy supporters like to ignore the foundation of our legal system which is the concept of reasonableness. Someone is to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. What reasonableness enails is looking at the evidence and deciding what is reasonably likely to have occurred based thereupon.
It is reasonably likely for Nevill to call Jeremy period for help? No because of the things Adam mentions plus the fact SHeila did not do anything to warrant him calling plus considerable evidence Jeremy framed Sheila including Julie's testimony which included the assertion he told her in advance he planned to claim he received a call from WHF to establish his alibi. Furtherore Jeremy's actions demonstrate he didn't receive such a call because someone reciving such a clal would rush over or immediately dial 999. He called Julie then lied and falsely claimed he called police before Julie because he knew if he told the truth he called Julie first then they would know he was lying about receiving a call from Nevill.
Why would Nevill need Jeremy to help talk Sheila down? As Adam pointed out Jeremy would have made her more angry not have helped calm her down. Indeed, Jeremy told police this when they asked if he would be of help talking her down with them.
Why would Nevill need Jeremy to help disarm her? Nevill was bigger and stronger than Jeremy so Jeremy didn't have some physical ability Nevill lacked.
Moreover, Nevill would have had both the need and opportunity to disarm her. Nevill was there at the scene thus able to ambush her. Jeremy would take 15-20 minutes to arrive why would Nevill decide it is ok to wait for Jeremy if he were so scared/ He would take action himself.
If too scared to act himself then he would call 999.
If too scared to take her on barehanded even though she didn't even know how to charge the wepaon or know she needed to charge the weapon, he could have armed himself. The kitchen had knives, guns and other potentional weapons. He was too scared to get a weapon and wanted Jeremy to come instead and put his life on the line to save them? Ludicrous if so scared he would have called 999.
Indeed Nevill would nto have even expect Jeremy to answer. Jeremy's answering machine woudl pick up before Jeremy could wake up, get out of bed and walke down the stairs to answer his phone if it even woke him up. Jeremy's claim he was sleeping like a log but managed to answer the phone before the answering machine picked up is not credible.
Nor is Jeremy's fairytale about getting the gun out to shoot rabbits and leaving it and the bullets out credible, he made up this tale quite obviously and staged the bullets after the murders. He even left too many bullets for his story to have been true.
One has to be totally irrational or too biased to be interested in accepting the truth to overlook all the evidence tha tproves no call happened. If you want to be that biased be my guest but calling people names for being rational instea dof like you makes you look even worse.
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Not a single Jeremy supporter is willing to actually discuss the points raised by Adam let alone attempt to debate/refute the points.
Instead you just ignore them and make the unsupported statement it is obvious why Nevill would call Jeremy.
Not true. I have answered. Maybe you or Adam don´t agree with what I have said, well, I know you don´t, but you can´t both keep moaning about no answers when they are there.
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This is a perfect example of how biased and irraitonal you are.
Not a single Jeremy supporter is willing to actually discuss the points raised by Adam let alone attempt to debate/refute the points.
Instead you just ignore them and make the unsupported statement it is obvious why Nevill would call Jeremy.
It is not obvious to a rational person which is one of the reasons why the jury chose not to believe the call never happened and why unbiased people who look at the case rationally don't believe it.
You even quit the board (returnig as I predicted though) because you admitted that Sheila would not have even known how to "charge" the rifle.
The allegation is she was there in the kitchen with him and grabbed the weapon. He would have seen as plain as day she didn't charge it and thus that it could not have harmed him if she actually grabbed the gun in his presence as Jeremy supporters claim.
If she didn't grab it in his presence and had to get it from the closet then went and woke up Nevill and June in their bedroom then obviously the call never happened because she would have opened fire then and there not have gone to the kitchen with Nevill and June to stay in bed sleeping.
More significantly though we know for a fact SHeila didn't load or fire the weapon nor did she beat anyone because the physical evidence establishes this. Since she never loaded or fired the weapon and was killed by someone else that means she didn't threaten Nevill with a gun or run around crazy so Nevill had no reaosn to call Jeremy claiming she did. Jeremy supporters choose the evidence that proves she didn't kill anyone including herself but the jury didn't.
Jeremy supporters like to ignore the foundation of our legal system which is the concept of reasonableness. Someone is to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. What reasonableness enails is looking at the evidence and deciding what is reasonably likely to have occurred based thereupon.
It is reasonably likely for Nevill to call Jeremy period for help? No because of the things Adam mentions plus the fact SHeila did not do anything to warrant him calling plus considerable evidence Jeremy framed Sheila including Julie's testimony which included the assertion he told her in advance he planned to claim he received a call from WHF to establish his alibi. Furtherore Jeremy's actions demonstrate he didn't receive such a call because someone reciving such a clal would rush over or immediately dial 999. He called Julie then lied and falsely claimed he called police before Julie because he knew if he told the truth he called Julie first then they would know he was lying about receiving a call from Nevill.
Why would Nevill need Jeremy to help talk Sheila down? As Adam pointed out Jeremy would have made her more angry not have helped calm her down. Indeed, Jeremy told police this when they asked if he would be of help talking her down with them.
Why would Nevill need Jeremy to help disarm her? Nevill was bigger and stronger than Jeremy so Jeremy didn't have some physical ability Nevill lacked.
Moreover, Nevill would have had both the need and opportunity to disarm her. Nevill was there at the scene thus able to ambush her. Jeremy would take 15-20 minutes to arrive why would Nevill decide it is ok to wait for Jeremy if he were so scared/ He would take action himself.
If too scared to act himself then he would call 999.
If too scared to take her on barehanded even though she didn't even know how to charge the wepaon or know she needed to charge the weapon, he could have armed himself. The kitchen had knives, guns and other potentional weapons. He was too scared to get a weapon and wanted Jeremy to come instead and put his life on the line to save them? Ludicrous if so scared he would have called 999.
Indeed Nevill would nto have even expect Jeremy to answer. Jeremy's answering machine woudl pick up before Jeremy could wake up, get out of bed and walke down the stairs to answer his phone if it even woke him up. Jeremy's claim he was sleeping like a log but managed to answer the phone before the answering machine picked up is not credible.
Nor is Jeremy's fairytale about getting the gun out to shoot rabbits and leaving it and the bullets out credible, he made up this tale quite obviously and staged the bullets after the murders. He even left too many bullets for his story to have been true.
One has to be totally irrational or too biased to be interested in accepting the truth to overlook all the evidence tha tproves no call happened. If you want to be that biased be my guest but calling people names for being rational instea dof like you makes you look even worse.
Not true - just do a search on his many threads - we have discussed and put our points of view many many many times in the past.And the subjects are exactly the same as before they are just paraphrased slightly differently .
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Not a single Jeremy supporter is willing to actually discuss the points raised by Adam let alone attempt to debate/refute the points.
Perhaps you haven't considered that "not a single Jeremy supporter" OR even UNsupporter, actually wants to enter into discussions with Adam if they can avoid doing so. Perhaps you'd failed to notice that ALL of us, supporters and UNsupporters alike, are more than happy to discuss the case with Steve_uk who doesn't use every opportunity to mock victims -using unacceptable names when referring to Sheila and frequently questioning Neville's intelligence- and posters. Perhaps you don't know that Adam's own refusal to change his approach has earned him three bans, ONE of which was requested by members.
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Perhaps you haven't considered that "not a single Jeremy supporter" OR even UNsupporter, actually wants to enter into discussions with Adam if they can avoid doing so. Perhaps you'd failed to notice that ALL of us, supporters and UNsupporters alike, are more than happy to discuss the case with Steve_uk who doesn't use every opportunity to mock victims -using unacceptable names when referring to Sheila and frequently questioning Neville's intelligence- and posters. Perhaps you don't know that Adam's own refusal to change his approach has earned him three bans, ONE of which was requested by members.
Most of his points came from me and were raised by me here countless times. No one has addressed them. I of course included more that likewise have not been addressed let alone refuted.
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Most of his points came from me and were raised by me here countless times. No one has addressed them. I of course included more that likewise have not been addressed let alone refuted.
If you've already raised the points it becomes totally unnecessary for Adam to repeat them. You might find it advantageous to confine your points to paragraphs as opposed to chapters. There is the added point that if, by the way you post, you put peoples backs up from BOTH sides of the divide, they'll probably ignore you.
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Perhaps you haven't considered that "not a single Jeremy supporter" OR even UNsupporter, actually wants to enter into discussions with Adam if they can avoid doing so. Perhaps you'd failed to notice that ALL of us, supporters and UNsupporters alike, are more than happy to discuss the case with Steve_uk who doesn't use every opportunity to mock victims -using unacceptable names when referring to Sheila and frequently questioning Neville's intelligence- and posters. Perhaps you don't know that Adam's own refusal to change his approach has earned him three bans, ONE of which was requested by members.
Ahhh. The resurfacing of the poster who only posts to or about me.
Only you requested a ban after I responded (in one post) to Nugs savage and unprovoked attack on me when I was off line. Unlike Nugs I didn't swear. Hopefully he will apologise. It was not my fault his police quote was made up.
Why don't you create a thread saying why you changed from 29 years innocent, to guilty ? Rather than refusing to give a reason. It will at least create discussion. You say you don't like my discussion threads.
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If you've already raised the points it becomes totally unnecessary for Adam to repeat them. You might find it advantageous to confine your points to paragraphs as opposed to chapters. There is the added point that if, by the way you post, you put peoples backs up from BOTH sides of the divide, they'll probably ignore you.
Jeremy supporters here are like broken records not just Adam so singling him out doesn't really work. In this particualr instance Adam is raising things not answered. In contrast Jeremy supporters often bring up the same claims already previously proven wrong or discussed into the ground.
This is one of his threads that actually has significant points that he has the right to keep raising until they are addressed.
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Jeremy supporters here are like broken records not just Adam so singling him out doesn't really work. In this particualr instance Adam is raising things not answered. In contrast Jeremy supporters often bring up the same claims already previously proven wrong or discussed into the ground.
This is one of his threads that actually has significant points that he has the right to keep raising until they are addressed.
If posters wish to do the broken record thing, it's their prerogative. They don't have to be responded to. I don't see any of them whining if no one discusses it, however, you CAN take it from me that SOME of the points raised by Adam, HAVE been discussed and when the discussion has been ignored because Adam doesn't agree with what's been said and he goes on repeating the question, people become more than a little irritated.
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Jeremy supporters here are like broken records not just Adam so singling him out doesn't really work. In this particualr instance Adam is raising things not answered. In contrast Jeremy supporters often bring up the same claims already previously proven wrong or discussed into the ground.
This is one of his threads that actually has significant points that he has the right to keep raising until they are addressed.
And we have the right to answer them once - not a hundred times.
Which we have done .
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And we have the right to answer them once - not a hundred times.
Which we have done .
Not answering them seriously undermines the ability to claim he is innocent and that the call happened. To be able to make a decent case of his innocence requires refuting the evidence against him and the points I raised are a big part of the case against him.
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Not answering them seriously undermines the ability to claim he is innocent and that the call happened. To be able to make a decent case of his innocence requires refuting the evidence against him and the points I raised are a big part of the case against him.
We have answered them seriously on other threads. That's the point.
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Not answering them seriously undermines the ability to claim he is innocent and that the call happened. To be able to make a decent case of his innocence requires refuting the evidence against him and the points I raised are a big part of the case against him.
So are you saying that, irrelevant of the sarcasm, goadingand disrespectfulness of Adam's posts, it's inclement upon us to answer him seriously ??? ???
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And we have the right to answer them once - not a hundred times.
Which we have done .
Well this thread had 40 facts why Neville would not call Jeremy. Sadly none were addressed.
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So are you saying that, irrelevant of the sarcasm, goadingand disrespectfulness of Adam's posts, it's inclement upon us to answer him seriously ??? ???
When the points are significant refusing to do so looks quite bad for those trying to mock him and makes Adam look far better.
Furthermore actually answering them could head off future raising of the issues assuming one could actually take his points to task competently.
The ones I raised are all quite important and the inability to address them singifincaly undermines claims of Jeremy's innocence so someone actually wanting to assert shoudl should try to find a way to address them.
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When the points are significant refusing to do so looks quite bad for those trying to mock him and makes Adam look far better.
Furthermore actually answering them could head off future raising of the issues assuming one could actually take his points to task competently.
The ones I raised are all quite important and the inability to address them singifincaly undermines claims of Jeremy's innocence so someone actually wanting to assert shoudl should try to find a way to address them.
Much more satisfying and FAR less irritating is to have him on ignore.
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Much more satisfying and FAR less irritating is to have him on ignore.
Try and say something worthwhile about the case. Rather than just post to or about me.
You were wrong for 29 years. So was Caroline & Susan, but at least they continue to discuss the case.
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The judge called Neville's call 'difficult or impossible to understand and explain' / 'mysterious'. He is correct as there are a lot of reasons why Neville would not call Jeremy -
Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not. BUT HE DID ANSWER SO THAT INVALIDATES YOUR POINT
Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority. YOU DONT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WAS MEANT BY THOSE WORDS AT THAT TIME IS SUBJECTIVE
He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'. BUT HE DID ANSWER .
Neville may only get the answering machine. DID HE EVEN THINK OF THAT? WHO KNOWS ? PERHAPS JEREMY DID NOT ALWAYS HAVE IT ON - SEE PREVIOUS THREAD
Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'. HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE WOULD ASSUME - SEE PREVIOUS THREAD ON ANSWERING MACHINE
Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness. So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down. HE WAS THE ONLY FAMILY PERSON AVAILABLE PERHAPS NB DID NOT WANT OTHERS TO KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT THAT ONE POINT IN TIME
Sheila did not like Jeremy. ASSUMPTION FROM YOU - HE MADE HER A TABLE REMEMBER ;)
Another adult, June was available at WHF. ???? REALLY . WE DONT KNOW WHAT EXACTLY WAS HAPPENING AT THE POINT OF THE CALL SO THIS IS NOT RELEVANT
The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired. IT WAS POWERFUL ENOUGH FOR YOUR MASSACRE AS YOU LIKE TO CALL IT . WE DONT KNOW WHAT HE MEANT BY HIS WORDS AND WE DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE CALL BUT I AM WILLING TO BET IF A 12 YEAR OLD POINTED A RIFLE AT YOU THAT YOU WOULD TACKLE THEM
Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired. SEE ABOVE
Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit. NOT WITH A RIFLE IN HER HANDS
Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit. YOU SAID JUNE WAS ASLEEP- PROBABLY SLEEPING LIKE A LOG :)
Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed. SO ? WE DONT KNOW HOW SERIOUS NEVILLE THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO GET - HE MAY NOT HAVE THOUGHT SHE WOULD ACTUALLY FIRE A SHOT?
The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier. WE CAN NOT PROVE THAT EITHER WAY
Neville would be putting his only son in danger. SEE COMMENT ABOVE WE DONT KNOW WHAT THE PERCIEVED DANGER WAS AT POINT OF CALL
Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun. - POSSIBLE - WHICH IS WHY JEREMY HEISTATED ABOUT WHAT TO DO - HIS FATHER NEVER ASKED HIM TO CALL THE POLICE AND THE CALL ENDED SUDDENLY - SO YES HE COULD HAVE BEEN SCARED - SO PERHAPS NEVILLES FAITH IN HIM WAS MISPLACED.
Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable. Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows. I DONT THINK IN THE QUICK CALL NEVILLE WOULD HAVE BEEN PONDERING THAT - PERHAPS HE WAS HOPING TO UNLOCK THE DOOR WITH THE KEY BEFORE HE GOT THERE
Sheila would not be pleased to see him. FGS - WHT SORT OF COMMENT IS THAT - HE QUITE OFTEN HELPED HER OUT WHEN COLIN WAS WORSE FOR WEAR!
Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family - JB SAID HIS RELATIONS WITH HIS FAMILY WERE NOT THAT BAD - HENCE WHY HE HAD SHARES IN BOTH FAMILY BUSINESS.
Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed. _ BUT HE DID NOT GO BACK TO BED - SO ASSUMPTION OF YOUR OWN MAKING
Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things. SARACASM - NOT EVEN WORTH WASTING MY TIME ON
Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option. - GETTING BORED NOW - YOU DONT KNOW SITUATION AT TIME OF CALL
Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option. SEE ABOVE
Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone. _ HE MAY NOT HAVE CONSIDERED THAT OR KNOWN SHE WAS LISTENING - PERHAPS YOU HAVE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD :( NB MADE A MISTAKE
Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF. YOU SAID THAT BEFORE >:(
There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun. _ YOU ARE INTEPRETING SOMEONE ELSES WORDS - WE DONT KNOW WHAT HE MEANT
When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist. SEE ABOVE
There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'. SEE ABOVE
Relations between the two were poor and getting worse. After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money. YOU DONT KNOW THAT FOR A FACT - ASSUMPTION
Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him. YES OF COURSE HE WOULD ::)
The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs. - YES WE DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut. -THAT MAY BE YOUR ASSUMPTION AND NOT A FACT - BET IT IS.
Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family. SEE ABOVE
Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes. ASSUMPTION
Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene. POSSIBLE - SEE ABOVE
Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not. - WE DONT KNNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN EVERY EPISODE SHE HAD SO THIS IS ASSUMPTION
Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance. This is what happened. YES THE CALL COULD HAVE BEEN A MISTAKE - DOES NOT MEAN IT DID NOT HAPPEN
Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened. I Don't THINK NB WAS THINKING THAT FAR AHEAD AND I DONT THINK HE THOUGHT SHE WOULD ACTUALLY FIRE THE GUN.
Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police. SEE PREVIOUS COMMENTS - AGAIN!
It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening. - SO RIDICULOUS I A NOT GOING TO DISCUSS -
Do people believe after 29 years, it is time for closure on this issue ? NO NO NO NO
ENOUGH DISCUSSION FOR YOU ????
DONT ACCUSE US OF NOT DICUSSING .
BET I HAVE JUST WASTED MY TIME AGAIN ::)
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Thank you Jan.
I knew Jeremy's other supporters would try to change the subject, ignore the issue or try to deflect the focus on me.
But I was very surprised that you did not get straight on you're fire engine and fire fight the 40 reasons. But better late than never.
A bit abrupt putting one word answers to valid points Not sure that is really debating or convincing doubters. Supporters really have to suspend a lot of common sense to convince themselves Neville called . Doubters just laugh at the suggestion.
Trying to dismiss the issue & act like it's wasting you're time will not work. It is an important issue that even the judge thought was mysterious. The 40 reasons have not been discussed before. Although I did create a thread on what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned. Most people refusing to answer.
Like it or not, most people think it is ridiculous to suggest Neville made the call. If he didn't then Bamber is guilty.
Why do you think Neville phoned Jeremy after Sheila had 'got the gun and gone crazy' ?
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Jeremy's calmer than you are. What's up,guilty conscience ? It's YOU who's losing it,no-one else !
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Thank you Jan.
I knew Jeremy's other supporters would try to change the subject, ignore the issue or try to deflect the focus on me.
But I was very surprised that you did not get straight on you're fire engine and fire fight the 40 reasons. But better late than never.
A bit abrupt putting one word answers to valid points Not sure that is really debating or convincing doubters. Supporters really have to suspend a lot of common sense to convince themselves Neville called . Doubters just laugh at the suggestion.
Trying to dismiss the issue & act like it's wasting you're time will not work. It is an important issue that even the judge thought was mysterious. The 40 reasons have not been discussed before. Although I did create a thread on what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned. Most people refusing to answer.
Like it or not, most people think it is ridiculous to suggest Neville made the call. If he didn't then Bamber is guilty.
Why do you think Neville phoned Jeremy after Sheila had 'got the gun and gone crazy' ?
Well after all that effort I made , your sarcastic dismissive post not acknowledging any of my points proves:
1) you are not interested in discussion at all
2) I was right in the first place and answering your posts is a complete waste of time
Scipio - you were wrong .
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This is a perfect example of how biased and irraitonal you are.
Not a single Jeremy supporter is willing to actually discuss the points raised by Adam let alone attempt to debate/refute the points.
Instead you just ignore them and make the unsupported statement it is obvious why Nevill would call Jeremy.
It is not obvious to a rational person which is one of the reasons why the jury chose not to believe the call never happened and why unbiased people who look at the case rationally don't believe it.
You even quit the board (returnig as I predicted though) because you admitted that Sheila would not have even known how to "charge" the rifle.
The allegation is she was there in the kitchen with him and grabbed the weapon. He would have seen as plain as day she didn't charge it and thus that it could not have harmed him if she actually grabbed the gun in his presence as Jeremy supporters claim.
If she didn't grab it in his presence and had to get it from the closet then went and woke up Nevill and June in their bedroom then obviously the call never happened because she would have opened fire then and there not have gone to the kitchen with Nevill and June to stay in bed sleeping.
More significantly though we know for a fact SHeila didn't load or fire the weapon nor did she beat anyone because the physical evidence establishes this. Since she never loaded or fired the weapon and was killed by someone else that means she didn't threaten Nevill with a gun or run around crazy so Nevill had no reaosn to call Jeremy claiming she did. Jeremy supporters choose the evidence that proves she didn't kill anyone including herself but the jury didn't.
Jeremy supporters like to ignore the foundation of our legal system which is the concept of reasonableness. Someone is to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. What reasonableness enails is looking at the evidence and deciding what is reasonably likely to have occurred based thereupon.
It is reasonably likely for Nevill to call Jeremy period for help? No because of the things Adam mentions plus the fact SHeila did not do anything to warrant him calling plus considerable evidence Jeremy framed Sheila including Julie's testimony which included the assertion he told her in advance he planned to claim he received a call from WHF to establish his alibi. Furtherore Jeremy's actions demonstrate he didn't receive such a call because someone reciving such a clal would rush over or immediately dial 999. He called Julie then lied and falsely claimed he called police before Julie because he knew if he told the truth he called Julie first then they would know he was lying about receiving a call from Nevill.
Why would Nevill need Jeremy to help talk Sheila down? As Adam pointed out Jeremy would have made her more angry not have helped calm her down. Indeed, Jeremy told police this when they asked if he would be of help talking her down with them.
Why would Nevill need Jeremy to help disarm her? Nevill was bigger and stronger than Jeremy so Jeremy didn't have some physical ability Nevill lacked.
Moreover, Nevill would have had both the need and opportunity to disarm her. Nevill was there at the scene thus able to ambush her. Jeremy would take 15-20 minutes to arrive why would Nevill decide it is ok to wait for Jeremy if he were so scared/ He would take action himself.
If too scared to act himself then he would call 999.
If too scared to take her on barehanded even though she didn't even know how to charge the wepaon or know she needed to charge the weapon, he could have armed himself. The kitchen had knives, guns and other potentional weapons. He was too scared to get a weapon and wanted Jeremy to come instead and put his life on the line to save them? Ludicrous if so scared he would have called 999.
Indeed Nevill would nto have even expect Jeremy to answer. Jeremy's answering machine woudl pick up before Jeremy could wake up, get out of bed and walke down the stairs to answer his phone if it even woke him up. Jeremy's claim he was sleeping like a log but managed to answer the phone before the answering machine picked up is not credible.
Nor is Jeremy's fairytale about getting the gun out to shoot rabbits and leaving it and the bullets out credible, he made up this tale quite obviously and staged the bullets after the murders. He even left too many bullets for his story to have been true.
One has to be totally irrational or too biased to be interested in accepting the truth to overlook all the evidence tha tproves no call happened. If you want to be that biased be my guest but calling people names for being rational instea dof like you makes you look even worse.
I did address his points with one answer. The questions he asks are just his opinion. I didn't need to waste my words addressing ALL of his points. You have not accepted my anser to him because of your own insane bias. I am afraid that your mind is closed anyone's opinion but your own. This you have proved by dismissing the whole of Adam's one thread.
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ENOUGH DISCUSSION FOR YOU ????
DONT ACCUSE US OF NOT DICUSSING .
BET I HAVE JUST WASTED MY TIME AGAIN ::)
I raised more than Adam and mine are all ied together so much more important to address. At any rate your responses didn't acocmplish much and some were silly.
For instance there is no evidence to sugggest Nevill actually called Jeremy so your claim that it is a fact Jeremy answered and this negates the points raised is downright stupid.
But many of the actual questions are looking at it from Nevill's point of view not necessarily what actually happened. It was asking why Nevill would expect Jeremy to be able to answer. Your silly claim that Jeremy did answer (which he obviously didn't because no call was actually made) doesn't really deal with how Nevill would perceive things.
I love this too, "YOU DONT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WAS MEANT BY THOSE WORDS AT THAT TIME IS SUBJECTIVE" so you suggest maybe things were nto so worrysome and that is why Nevill would not have any urgency to disarm Sheila or attempt to enlist June to help and instead call Jeremy. Your response makes no sense at all.
All in all your responses show you don't want to look at it rationally and committed a major blunder in alleging Nevill definitely called and Jeremy definitely answered. That really dashes your claims of being objective and puts you solidly in the pro Jeremy camp.
If you want to make a serious effort at it try addressing the issues I raised which help establish the call never happened.
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Here are the 40 reasons why Neville would not call Jeremy. Discussed in the 'Song for Jeremy' thread.
Jan bravely (eventually) tackled them. Sadly her answers were flippant and short. As if she was doing me a big favour and it is not an important issue. Sadly it is.
There is a double problem with the 'mysterious' call.
1:
No one can say what Sheila was doing when Neville called.
2:
There are 40 reasons why he would not call.