Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Jan on December 01, 2014, 05:00:PM
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found these from post in 2011 - could be from stokenchurch? Interesting on third document "photo of footprint"?
Also on number 9 silver bullet found in envelope nevilles car? Could that refer to the threat he received?
Also refers to COLP interviews 1991?
BTW - did not AP live in Buckinghamshire?
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page 1 - wonder who mrs hazelden was who wrote to jones?
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Jan how interesting you are certainly good and finding things. Well done :)
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found these from 2011 - could be from stokenchurch? ... BTW - did not AP live in Buckinghamshire?
I think Campion Snr used to make references about the proximity of AP's address to Stokenchurch.
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I second that,Jans' brilliant. Well done girl,and yes,AP did live in Buckinghamshire.
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file re- sandwich - how can you have a file on a sandwich?
Also pieces of broken rifle stock - x 2? I always thought there one broken piece?
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2 pieces of broken rifle stock. Untested for prints I assume.
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I think Campion Snr used to make references about the proximity of AP's address to Stokenchurch.
yes campion was also convinced that one of the officers at the press conference explaining what went wrong had a tie with a red kite on it ( symbol of this area) but others thought it was an eagle :)
I am not even sure these are stokenchurch documents - but they are obviously after 1991
still interesting though. Specially about the silver bullet in an envelope . Does that sound like a death threat to you?
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yes campion was also convinced that one of the officers at the press conference explaining what went wrong had a tie with a red kite on it ( symbol of this area) but others thought it was an eagle :)
I am not even sure these are stokenchurch documents - but they are obviously after 1991
still interesting though. Specially about the silver bullet in an envelope . Does that sound like a death threat to you?
I'm sure I'd have taken it as a threat,Jan,and Neville was no fool either.
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6 x albums photos of silencer
7 x albums of silencer
really?
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might have missed some
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damaged painting - anyone know about that?
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6 x albums photos of silencer
7 x albums of silencer
really?
I saw that also,along with audio taped interviews. Marvellous,isn't it ?
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damaged painting - anyone know about that?
Nope.
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:o - mike is mentioned ?
so he must know what this document is?
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Interpol file re bamber
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I wonder what the painting was,as it would be interesting to know.
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Jan how interesting you are certainly good and finding things. Well done :)
Well said Susan. Jan is absolutely great. ;)
I second that,Jans' brilliant. Well done girl,and yes,AP did live in Buckinghamshire.
I 3rd that Lookout. I do wish Jan would join our Mod team. ;D
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I see there was a file on the other Matthew........
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damaged painting - anyone know about that?
Never heard of a damaged painting.
Much of this is very interesting.
Mike - allegation of involvement. In what?
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Never heard of a damaged painting.
Much of this is very interesting.
Mike - allegation of involvement. In what?
No idea
Mike posted this originally querying the footprint photo .Hopefully he will tell us?
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Patti Jan is an asset to this forum as are you :)
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I see there was a file on the other Matthew........
yes I noticed that - plus it mentions eric Collins - but I guess that is a mistake as eric I think is bretts middle name?
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:-[ I am just obsessed - that's all.
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I'll second that too Susan. :)
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lookout ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Never heard of a damaged painting.
Much of this is very interesting.
Mike - allegation of involvement. In what?
Ower! Is there not a damaged picture on the top of the stairs? Well its the frame, could they mean that? ;D ;D ;D
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Patti Jan is an asset to this forum as are you :)
Thank you Susan. Does this mean I will get me barrel beer for Chrimbo? ;D
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I'll second that too Susan. :)
I like seconds. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Ower! Is there not a damaged picture on the top of the stairs? Well its the frame, could they mean that? ;D ;D ;D
On top of what stairs?
A link to meanings of "silver bullet" With a warning - some are quite graphic. No. 2 has "USMC" in it, tsk. tsk
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=silver%20bullet
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:-[ I am just obsessed - that's all.
I know the feeling Jan. When I came on the forum I spent most of my time looking for stuff and came up with some of the most craziest thoughts.
You are doing a grand job! I just wish I knew what that list was for, why and can I see all the files please.
I'm sure we would all have a beano searching through it all. I know I would. ;D ;D ;D
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I like seconds. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Oh,I know. ;D ;D ;D ;D x
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On top of what stairs?
A link to meanings of "silver bullet" With a warning - some are quite graphic. No. 2 has "USMC" in it, tsk. tsk
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=silver%20bullet
Near the main bedroom door Alias. Shall I go and look? ;D ;D ;D
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On top of what stairs?
A link to meanings of "silver bullet" With a warning - some are quite graphic. No. 2 has "USMC" in it, tsk. tsk
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=silver%20bullet
Not so keen on Number 4 ;)
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Near the main bedroom door Alias. Shall I go and look? ;D ;D ;D
Yes please, I cannot see it.
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Yes please, I cannot see it.
Got it. Its the edge of the frame.
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I will ask mike what this is about - who would want the 1991 papers - unless this is to do with an appeal?
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Thanks Patti - put the picture there myself and never noticed!
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Patti of course you will get your wee present two barrels this year as you deserve it ;D give you a nudge when it is on its way ;D ;D ;D ;D glad I did'ent drink it ;D
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I will ask mike what this is about - who would want the 1991 papers - unless this is to do with an appeal?
I'm wondering if it is a list of documents request for an appeal Jan? ;D ;D
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Patti of course you will get your wee present two barrels this year as you deserve it ;D give you a nudge when it is on its way ;D ;D ;D ;D glad I did'ent drink it ;D
Thank you. :-* :-* :-* ;D ;D ;D ;D
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yes could be - wonder what year - just interesting to see what was in existence - including videos.
Letter from Peter Jay - just did a search and that is something to do with Sheilas birth family.
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yes could be - wonder what year - just interesting to see what was in existence - including videos.
Letter from Peter Jay - just did a search and that is something to do with Sheilas birth family.
Peter was Sheila's uncle. Her mother's brother. :(
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found this as well - now this does say stokenchurch - but is listed by BOX rather than by letters - now see what it says by the envelope . May mean something to someone.
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A Richard Wood named in that document,is AP's brother-in-law who married Jacqueline ( AP's sister )
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"Anthony Pargeter is Jeremy’s cousin on his father’s side. He married Regine Hausser, daughter of famous photographer Robert Hausser. Anthony had a sister, Jacqueline, who married Richard Wood.
Anthony and Jacqueline also had half brothers, as their mother, Audrey, had died and Reginald married again having two other sons called Clive and Roland. It is in Roland’s statement where rumours of a plane flying over to drop drugs at the farm in the middle of the night must have started. He confesses his own involvement in drugs and details a convoluted account of visiting a psychic and her telling him a tale of three hit men who killed the family.
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Jan,I rather think it was Roland who'd stayed at WHF. The one whom June was looking after on account of his drug-taking.
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I suppose they mean the envelope was marked Richard wood? not the bullet? And what does it mean peter scratches?
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Jan,I rather think it was Roland who'd stayed at WHF. The one whom June was looking after on account of his drug-taking.
ah yes .
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I suppose they mean the envelope was marked Richard wood? not the bullet? And what does it mean peter scratches?
Eaton ?
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Eaton ?
Could be Sutherst? :-\
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Could be Sutherst? :-\
Of course,could be.
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I'll be wondering now about that damaged painting as to whether there was any significance to it having been damaged.
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I'll be wondering now about that damaged painting as to whether there was any significance to it having been damaged.
Since we will never know, I will refrain from wondering. I´ve become economical like that - when it comes to this case.
It is frustrating, but one has to accept that there are things you will never get an answer to.
Of course there is Jeremy to ask about such things, but I would always think: is he being honest - or, in this case, perhaps more, would he remember a detail like that.
The damage could have come from so many things!
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Since we will never know, I will refrain from wondering. I´ve become economical like that - when it comes to this case.
It is frustrating, but one has to accept that there are things you will never get an answer to.
Of course there is Jeremy to ask about such things, but I would always think: is he being honest - or, in this case, perhaps more, would he remember a detail like that.
The damage could have come from so many things!
Yes,I know what you're saying. It's just odd little clues rather than excuses, which would give me a picture in my mind as to the thoughts that Sheila may have had, for I can only blame her for tearing the photograph of her little boys,as it involved being destructive to certain things.
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I'll be wondering now about that damaged painting as to whether there was any significance to it having been damaged.
yes could have been damaged before because you would think it would have come off the wall with that damage.
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yes could have been damaged before because you would think it would have come off the wall with that damage.
Makes you wonder,Jan.Junes' black eye.Sheilas' " abdominal " wound. There could well have been a ding-dong a night or two before.
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Yes,I know what you're saying. It's just odd little clues rather than excuses, which would give me a picture in my mind as to the thoughts that Sheila may have had, for I can only blame her for tearing the photograph of her little boys,as it involved being destructive to certain things.
Did Sheila tear up a photo of her boys?
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yes could have been damaged before because you would think it would have come off the wall with that damage.
It looks to me as if the frame was damaged. The outer rims are very vulnerable. The inner nodes are stuck on individually and prone to coming unstuck. Chances are it had been like that for years -we rarely notice the things we see on a daily basis- OR possibly Neville may have lurched against it as he stumbled down the stairs but there would surely have been some evidence of it.
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reference to Interpol file again
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Did Sheila tear up a photo of her boys?
There was a photograph torn in half,and I'm assuming that it was Sheila who'd done it,as I can't think of anyone else who'd do such a thing.
I think it was found in a drawer at her Maida Vale home.
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The photo is in Wilkes's book,and states that it was found after Jeremys' arrest. It had been found in pieces as opposed to it being torn in half. The twins were about 2 ? at the time.
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On the documents it says that there are 38 boxes - I wonder if there are inventiories that go up to 200. Is this all we have, Jan?
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The photo is in Wilkes's book,and states that it was found after Jeremys' arrest. It had been found in pieces as opposed to it being torn in half. The twins were about 2 ? at the time.
Awwww
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On the documents it says that there are 38 boxes - I wonder if there are inventiories that go up to 200. Is this all we have, Jan?
Some of this is from photocopies and Only some pages are listed .
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think I get one thing ?
the bullet may have been found by Richard wood on citroen garage floor
so the other statement - silver bullet in envelope could have been misleading.
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but other things
Interpol file
photo of footprint
are interesting
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but other things
Interpol file
photo of footprint
are interesting
We have in a photo what looks to me like a barefoot footprint on the carpet in the bedroom very close to June´s body. Could be her own. Could also not be hers.
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We have in a photo what looks to me like a barefoot footprint on the carpet in the bedroom very close to June´s body. Could be her own. Could also not be hers.
Could you post it please Alias.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Sure. I cropped the picture, but you should really see the whole thing for size comparison. It is not a pleasant photo, so here is a link to that.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=7296;image
What do people think - am I seeing things? :P
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Sure. I cropped the picture, but you should really see the whole thing for size comparison. It is not a pleasant photo, so here is a link to that.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=7296;image
What do people think - am I seeing things? :P
D'you mean the mark between June's legs, Alias? Poor June didn't deserve that, it's horrendous.
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Maggie I was wondering about the marks between June's legs what a sad state of affairs makes my blood run cold :(
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D'you mean the mark between June's legs, Alias? Poor June didn't deserve that, it's horrendous.
Yes, that is the one I mean.
No one deserved that! It is awful to look at.
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Sure. I cropped the picture, but you should really see the whole thing for size comparison. It is not a pleasant photo, so here is a link to that.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=7296;image
What do people think - am I seeing things? :P
I'm not sure to be honest Alias. In my mind I can see a curve which is likely to have been a foot mark....I can't really say, but well done for picking it out....
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but other things
Interpol file
photo of footprint
are interesting
I've seen reference to the footprint,, some time ago though,which means that I can't remember where.
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That's maybe it. A small print which could be that of June. So obviously before she fell down,poor woman. Oh Lord,I'd be no good at doing it for real I'm afraid. Not under those circumstances.
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Sure. I cropped the picture, but you should really see the whole thing for size comparison. It is not a pleasant photo, so here is a link to that.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=7296;image
What do people think - am I seeing things? :P
It's a bit like looking at a picture of Mars I'm afraid. If you look hard enough you can see a footprint. But on the other hand it may be because you had suggested it and also ringed it? What I will say though is that Junes body looks as if it had been dead for some time, compared to Sheila's body which doesn't looked to have been dead for very long?
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I agree Mr G. It gave Sheila plenty of time to have a wash and get something to eat as they all appear to have been dead long before herself,which is proof enough that she was the " last one standing ". Possibly still while her brother and the police were outside.
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It's a bit like looking at a picture of Mars I'm afraid. If you look hard enough you can see a footprint. But on the other hand it may be because you had suggested it and also ringed it? What I will say though is that Junes body looks as if it had been dead for some time, compared to Sheila's body which doesn't looked to have been dead for very long?
I agree - there is a difference in the appearance of the bodies, but then, we don´t have that good photos.
I didn´t have to look for long to see that "footprint" - in fact I wasn´t looking for one. But I do see pictures in everything, so I guess I am not to be trusted in this regard. Maybe. :P
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I agree - there is a difference in the appearance of the bodies, but then, we don´t have that good photos.
I didn´t have to look for long to see that "footprint" - in fact I wasn´t looking for one. But I do see pictures in everything, so I guess I am not to be trusted in this regard. Maybe. :P
I do agree June looks as if she has been dead far longer than Sheila in the photos.
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It's a bit like looking at a picture of Mars I'm afraid. If you look hard enough you can see a footprint. But on the other hand it may be because you had suggested it and also ringed it? What I will say though is that Junes body looks as if it had been dead for some time, compared to Sheila's body which doesn't looked to have been dead for very long?
There is an untouched picture of Sheila which looks as though she has been dead just as long as the others. This picture is another reason why I changed my mind. Her skin is discoloured and the blood leaking from her mouth is dried and cracked. I don't want to post it without the agreement from others (although it is already posted somewhere on the forum).
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Found the link to the picture (last picture posted).
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3904.msg160190.html#msg160190
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Found the link to the picture (last picture posted).
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3904.msg160190.html#msg160190
Yes the blood does look dried. But looking at the parts of her body that are shown eg her hands (difficult to tell I know) she doesn't look as deteriorated as June's body imo anyway?
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As I asked back then.How many hours later ?
Photographs would have been automatically taken on entry,then later before being removed from the farmhouse.
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As I asked back then.How many hours later ?
Photographs would have been automatically taken on entry,then later before being removed from the farmhouse.
Well it must have been several hours and the blood could have dried in the time the police arrived to the time the raid team broke in, in my opinion anyway?
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Well it must have been several hours and the blood could have dried in the time the police arrived to the time the raid team broke in, in my opinion anyway?
Whichever way one looks at the photos',they were definitely taken at different times. Also there weren't the " enhancement " techniques that there are now to make a difference to a pic/photo,or it would have been said that they'd been airbrushed.
A police surgeon would have used a Minolta camera for more accuracy such as in the first pic.
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Yes the blood does look dried. But looking at the parts of her body that are shown eg her hands (difficult to tell I know) she doesn't look as deteriorated as June's body imo anyway?
Fact is the photograph is the SAME picture as the one that 'looks' as though the blood is still red. It also shows that Sheila's skin is discolouring which means that livor mortis was well on the way. It is highly unlikely therefore, that she had just died within a few hours of the picture being taken.
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Fact is the photograph is the SAME picture as the one that 'looks' as though the blood is still red. It also shows that Sheila's skin is discolouring which means that livor mortis was well on the way. It is highly unlikely therefore, that she had just died within a few hours of the picture being taken.
Yes that's true Caroline, but if you look at the nearly full body photograph of Sheila there are distinct differences between the state of her body and June's?
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Yes that's true Caroline, but if you look at the nearly full body photograph of Sheila there are distinct differences between the state of her body and June's?
Sorry Grahame, I don't agree - June's injuries were more severe so she was bound to be in a worse state. The pictures of June aren't clear either. However, until you see the picture of Sheila up-close, it looks as though she had just died, but this picture tells a different story.
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Sorry Grahame, I don't agree - June's injuries were more severe so she was bound to be in a worse state. The pictures of June aren't clear either. However, until you see the picture of Sheila up-close, it looks as though she had just died, but this picture tells a different story.
I do remember Stan Jones (I think) commenting on how Sheila looked as if she was just asleep which maybe encouraged people to believe she had died later?
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I do remember Stan Jones (I think) commenting on how Sheila looked as if she was just asleep which maybe encouraged people to believe she had died later?
I find this picture quite shocking and I think it's difficult to argue that she looks peaceful. One of the most insane things about the while fiasco is that no one bothered to estimate the time of death of the victims. Even if they thought Sheila responsible, it should surely have still been a consideration in any investigation that resulted in the deaths of one or more victims?
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I do remember Stan Jones (I think) commenting on how Sheila looked as if she was just asleep which maybe encouraged people to believe she had died later?
On Junes body you can definitely see the blood in her legs causing livor mortis as in the example below. This appears to be absent in Sheila's body?
Sorry for being gross.
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Aww,God bless her.
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On Junes body you can definitely see the blood in her legs causing livor mortis as in the example below. This appears to be absent in Sheila's body?
Sorry for being gross.
Sheila was at least an hour or two away from livor mortis,as her body appeared to be a lot paler.
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Sheila was at least an hour or two away from livor mortis,as her body appeared to be a lot paler.
Are there not several variables which come into the equation regarding livor mortis, ie, age, health, activity prior to death etc?
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On Junes body you can definitely see the blood in her legs causing livor mortis as in the example below. This appears to be absent in Sheila's body?
Sorry for being gross.
June has blood stains on her legs as though she's been dragged. However, you can see LM on Sheila's face - the picture of the rest of her body isn't clear enough to tell.
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I've seen reference to the footprint,, some time ago though,which means that I can't remember where.
it was on here - mike said it was a footprint in the kitchen
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Sheila was at least an hour or two away from livor mortis,as her body appeared to be a lot paler.
Not in the close up - you can see it on her face.
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Are there not several variables which come into the equation regarding livor mortis, ie, age, health, activity prior to death etc?
Activity would have furthered the onset of livor mortis with Sheila. Which tells me that she hadn't been dead that long if she'd been hurtling around like a banshee.
All pics of Sheila are showing her to be pale.In other words,she died 2/3/"4" ( at the latest ) hours later than the others if poor Neville's anything to go by.
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I agree with what Caroline said in that even if it was Sheila - it was murder then suicide so there still should have been a full investigation.
Was it correct that the bodies were not collected until about 3 in the afternoon because if so we dont know when all the photos were taken?
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I agree with what Caroline said in that even if it was Sheila - it was murder then suicide so there still should have been a full investigation.
Was it correct that the bodies were not collected until about 3 in the afternoon because if so we dont know when all the photos were taken?
Thanks Jan :)
I think it's fairly safe to say that the pictures of the victims would have been taken first.
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Thanks Jan :)
I think it's fairly safe to say that the pictures of the victims would have been taken first.
I agree - but because I don't think then there were dates and times on the photos - some could have been taken later ?
The source and time of some the pictures may not always be traceable ?
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I agree - but because I don't think then there were dates and times on the photos - some could have been taken later ?
The source and time of some the pictures may not always be traceable ?
I think the victims were photographed around 10ish. The close up of Sheila with the dried blood, is the same pictures which was used to imply blood was still running from her wound.
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It's interesting that one of the ambulance drivers at the scene is absolutely convinced Jeremy is innocent and he spent many hours at the scene
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It's interesting that one of the ambulance drivers at the scene is absolutely convinced Jeremy is innocent and he spent many hours at the scene
That's fair enough but why is he convinced?
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All Jeremy is guilty of,as he says,is not knowing enough about his sisters' illness and not being able to do anything because of not knowing. Is this such a crime ?
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Why don't you ask him yourself Caroline?
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Why don't you ask him yourself Caroline?
The ambulance driver? I don't know who he is - I thought you did being as you mentioned him?
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I actually don't understand why ambulances were sent when EP " knew " everyone was dead.?
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I actually don't understand why ambulances were sent when EP " knew " everyone was dead.?
I think they arrived 'before' they knew everyone was dead in case there were any injuries.
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I think they arrived 'before' they knew everyone was dead in case there were any injuries.
yes they were on stand by outside.
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yes they were on stand by outside.
Thanks Jan, I thought so. I don't see anything unusual about that, they had no idea what they were going to find - there could be people injured inside or injured as a result of the raid team going in.
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yes they were on stand by outside.
Are you thinking of changing your stance Jan from innocent to one of guilty?
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Are you thinking of changing your stance Jan from innocent to one of guilty?
Why do you say that, Gee?
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Why do you say that, Gee?
By looking at certain answers she has given lately.
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Hello Caroline I was always under the impression that in a situation where people could be injured an ambulance was at the scene automatically.
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By looking at certain answers she has given lately.
The ambulances were on stand by, so Jan is only stating fact. As I see it.
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Hello Mr Gee I don't think for one minute Jan has changed her stance just trying to be objective with her answers.
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Hello Caroline I was always under the impression that in a situation where people could be injured an ambulance was at the scene automatically.
I can't answer that Susan and as far as I can see I never questioned it?
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The ambulance driver? I don't know who he is - I thought you did being as you mentioned him?
I am sure you and your mate the fragrant Mr H could find him it's not difficult
If he would talk to you after reading yours and Mr H's posts is another matter
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Hello Mr Gee I know you never questioned it I was just replying to Caroline :)
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I am sure you and your mate the fragrant Mr H could find him it's not difficult
If he would talk to you after reading yours and Mr H's posts is another matter
I knew there wouldn't be a sensible reply from you. I'm NOT interested in talking to your ambulance driver. If he has ANY information, he should be talking to the police. But I VERY MUCH DOUBT that he has! Just believing in innocence isn't enough - that's ALL you've got and it's got you nowhere!
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Hello Mr Gee I know you never questioned it I was just replying to Caroline :)
Sorry susan. I misread your post.
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Mr Gee Thank you :) :) :)
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By looking at certain answers she has given lately.
No not at all - I think it is interesting to see what time they were called and why?
I have never been able to find any of the logs to the ambulance service - but remembered asking before whether they could have seen or heard anything.
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just found this - point 4 page 7 wireless log
from the defence. The 8.41am entry states ‘OG10 and two officers with Dictaphones and 5 tapes to go asap to scene’. It is assumed that they arrived as ordered and that they made detailed audio recordings as ordered of the scene. These tapes would contain further information that was never contained in Witness Statements which were often made weeks later. Had this information been known about at trial then these tapes along with all the other audio tape recordings of the telephone and radio messages would have been called for to assist in proving the innocence of Jeremy Bamber.
The next issue relates to the calling of two ambulance crews to White House Farm on the morning of 7th August 1985. Entries on page 4 of the Wireless Message Log states:
‘ CA07 (control car at scene) 6.20am 2 ambulances required, one for immediate one for standby’
‘IR (incident room) 6.22am 2 ambulances arranged’
‘IR at r.v. point going to scene with 2 ambulances escorted by CA06 (police vehicle) 6.40am’
‘ CA06 8.1 (officer code) at Pages Lane (road which leads to WHF) 7.04am Necessary escort dealt with’
In 1985 it was not normal practice to call ambulances to an incident where the Tactical Firearms Unit were deployed. This is clear because the police TFU were deployed to White House Farm at 4.04am and it was another two and a quarter hours before the ambulances were requested. The decision was obviously made by the police
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just found this - point 4 page 7 wireless log
from the defence. The 8.41am entry states ‘OG10 and two officers with Dictaphones and 5 tapes to go asap to scene’. It is assumed that they arrived as ordered and that they made detailed audio recordings as ordered of the scene. These tapes would contain further information that was never contained in Witness Statements which were often made weeks later. Had this information been known about at trial then these tapes along with all the other audio tape recordings of the telephone and radio messages would have been called for to assist in proving the innocence of Jeremy Bamber.
The next issue relates to the calling of two ambulance crews to White House Farm on the morning of 7th August 1985. Entries on page 4 of the Wireless Message Log states:
‘ CA07 (control car at scene) 6.20am 2 ambulances required, one for immediate one for standby’
‘IR (incident room) 6.22am 2 ambulances arranged’
‘IR at r.v. point going to scene with 2 ambulances escorted by CA06 (police vehicle) 6.40am’
‘ CA06 8.1 (officer code) at Pages Lane (road which leads to WHF) 7.04am Necessary escort dealt with’
In 1985 it was not normal practice to call ambulances to an incident where the Tactical Firearms Unit were deployed. This is clear because the police TFU were deployed to White House Farm at 4.04am and it was another two and a quarter hours before the ambulances were requested. The decision was obviously made by the police
Yes I thought it was logged somewhere.
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just found this - point 4 page 7 wireless log
from the defence. The 8.41am entry states ‘OG10 and two officers with Dictaphones and 5 tapes to go asap to scene’. It is assumed that they arrived as ordered and that they made detailed audio recordings as ordered of the scene. These tapes would contain further information that was never contained in Witness Statements which were often made weeks later. Had this information been known about at trial then these tapes along with all the other audio tape recordings of the telephone and radio messages would have been called for to assist in proving the innocence of Jeremy Bamber.
The next issue relates to the calling of two ambulance crews to White House Farm on the morning of 7th August 1985. Entries on page 4 of the Wireless Message Log states:
‘ CA07 (control car at scene) 6.20am 2 ambulances required, one for immediate one for standby’
‘IR (incident room) 6.22am 2 ambulances arranged’
‘IR at r.v. point going to scene with 2 ambulances escorted by CA06 (police vehicle) 6.40am’
‘ CA06 8.1 (officer code) at Pages Lane (road which leads to WHF) 7.04am Necessary escort dealt with’
In 1985 it was not normal practice to call ambulances to an incident where the Tactical Firearms Unit were deployed. This is clear because the police TFU were deployed to White House Farm at 4.04am and it was another two and a quarter hours before the ambulances were requested. The decision was obviously made by the police
So this is the reason why the ambulances were sent. Had Neville mentioned that he was injured I ask myself ? Ambulances aren't usually sent to collect the deceased,except for private ambulances specifically for that purpose.
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So this is the reason why the ambulances were sent. Had Neville mentioned that he was injured I ask myself ? Ambulances aren't usually sent to collect the deceased,except for private ambulances specifically for that purpose.
The ambulance's were sent because the raid team were about to enter the house and there may have been casualties. They didn't know if people were dead or injured at that point or if someone would be injured as a result of the raid. Hence they asked for one to be ready immediately and one on stand-by - just in case.
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The ambulance's were sent because the raid team were about to enter the house and there may have been casualties. They didn't know if people were dead or injured at that point or if someone would be injured as a result of the raid. Hence they asked for one to be ready immediately and one on stand-by - just in case.
Well yes,that would be feasible given that guns had been mentioned.
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There were five people in the house; why only two ambulances?
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There were five people in the house; why only two ambulances?
I believe that initially 6 body bags were sent for. If they thought there may have been 6 casualties maybe each ambulance carried 3 patients.
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I believe that initially 6 body bags were sent for. If they thought there may have been 6 casualties maybe each ambulance carried 3 patients.
Our ambulances only carry one - I think.
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Our ambulances only carry one - I think.
Alias, maybe ours do, too. I was making two and two add up to five :D
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Our ambulances only carry one - I think.
Ours carry a stretchered patient and a walking wounded ( strapped in a chair )
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There were five people in the house; why only two ambulances?
They had no idea what had happened, they would have organises ambulance's just in case but probably didn't expect them all to be injured. They couls easily have requested more if required.
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They had no idea what had happened, they would have organises ambulance's just in case but probably didn't expect them all to be injured. They couls easily have requested more if required.
Still - to be on the safe side. They must have known there were five persons in the house - dead or alive.
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I knew there wouldn't be a sensible reply from you. I'm NOT interested in talking to your ambulance driver. If he has ANY information, he should be talking to the police. But I VERY MUCH DOUBT that he has! Just believing in innocence isn't enough - that's ALL you've got and it's got you nowhere!
I have only known about the ambulance drivers stance fairly recently from his best friend another paramedic. He would obviously have his reasons for not talking to the police. He reads the forum religiously and Caroline your opinion does not interest me but this person does as a crucial witness
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I have only known about the ambulance drivers stance fairly recently from his best friend another paramedic. He would obviously have his reasons for not talking to the police. He reads the forum religiously and Caroline your opinion does not interest me but this person does as a crucial witness
Well, he must know more than you do about the case - you seem incapable of debating ANY aspect. You're either sniping at someone or just copying and pasting stuff from elsewhere. If you're supposed to be an authority you should be startling us all with your in-depth analysis but you seem to know little more than the basics - hence, I'm not interested in your opinion either - it's ill informed and a little cranky!
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The only information that the ambulance staff may have would be
either the way they were called to the scene and the information within those messages
Or things they saw or heard when the raid team went in ( less likely but still possible)
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The only information that the ambulance staff may have would be
either the way they were called to the scene and the information within those messages
Or things they saw or heard when the raid team went in ( less likely but still possible)
[/quote
You are right Jan and I would like MWT to interview him
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Well, he must know more than you do about the case - you seem incapable of debating ANY aspect. You're either sniping at someone or just copying and pasting stuff from elsewhere. If you're supposed to be an authority you should be startling us all with your in-depth analysis but you seem to know little more than the basics - hence, I'm not interested in your opinion either - it's ill informed and a little cranky!
I will debate with anyone that has an open mind on the case!
I obviously know more about the case than you do because of my PRIVATE conversations with Jeremy
I have made the EFFORT to speak to people Jeremy has been in prison, people who Jeremy grew up with Jeremy
The person who carried out the lie detector test
People who know pc mercer
I have numerous discussions with MWT about the case
I could go on and on but I think I have made my point
As for your posts I find them boring and tedious and go nowhere near showing Jeremy to be guilty
The biggest joke was the story your mate put on the front of a national newspaper where he lied and failed to show any proof of any letter
I think his behaviour and words are going to come back and bite him very soon
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Forgive me if I am wrong,but I'm certain that in the past I have read that the ambulances were sent away from whf BEFORE the raid team had even made entry. If true,how did police know they would not be needed. That there were no survivors?
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I will debate with anyone that has an open mind on the case!
I obviously know more about the case than you do because of my PRIVATE conversations with Jeremy
I have made the EFFORT to speak to people Jeremy has been in prison, people who Jeremy grew up with Jeremy
The person who carried out the lie detector test
People who know pc mercer
I have numerous discussions with MWT about the case
I could go on and on but I think I have made my point
As for your posts I find them boring and tedious and go nowhere near showing Jeremy to be guilty
The biggest joke was the story your mate put on the front of a national newspaper where he lied and failed to show any proof of any letter
I think his behaviour and words are going to come back and bite him very soon
I have a suggestion for you - If you don't rate my posts - DON'T READ THEM! Fact is, you can't help yourself, they don't bore you at all, they bug you and I have yet to see you argue against them - because you can't! ;D
You SHOULD at least know SOMETHING about the case but you don't! All you do is try and 'name drop'. I couldn't care less WHO you have spoken to! You don't debate the case with ANYONE and trip yourself up constantly, when you're picked up on it, you just ignore any questions.
I find you completely fanatical! Even Jeremy wants nothing to do with you because you're over the top. You seem to think you deserve some sort of celebrity status - which is really funny given how little you seem to know.
The biggest joke - is actually you! People tip-toe around you, not because you're a force to be reckoned with, but because they either feel sorry for you or they can't be bothered with the hassle. We don't like each other Jackie - lets just accept that and give each other a wide birth!!
Oh and - DO NOT direct your dispute with PH at me. I'm not interested!!
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I have a suggestion for you - If you don't rate my posts - DON'T READ THEM! Fact is, you can't help yourself, they don't bore you at all, they bug you and I have yet to see you argue against them - because you can't! ;D
You SHOULD at least know SOMETHING about the case but you don't! All you do is try and 'name drop'. I couldn't care less WHO you have spoken to! You don't debate the case with ANYONE and trip yourself up constantly, when you're picked up on it, you just ignore any questions.
I find you completely fanatical! Even Jeremy wants nothing to do with you because you're over the top. You seem to think you deserve some sort of celebrity status - which is really funny given how little you seem to know.
The biggest joke - is actually you! People tip-toe around you, not because you're a force to be reckoned with, but because they either feel sorry for you or they can't be bothered with the hassle. We don't like each other Jackie - lets just accept that and give each other a wide birth!!
Oh and - DO NOT direct your dispute with PH at me. I'm not interested!!
I read your posts to make sure readers of this forum know they are mainly observations and suggestions by you not fact
You are the stand out person who is fanatical staying up till 4 in the morning droning on about phone calls that will never in a million years prove Jeremy's guilt
As for me being fanatical?
I have never asked to vist jeremy
I never asked to go on the phone list
Jeremy asked me
I will do everything I can to help overturn this MOJ and you and your mate PH who you hold in high esteem will never stop me
You are a very angry person, try to get some sleep it might help
I get plenty of very nice pm messages thank you
How's Holly by the way, she is putting forward a good case for Jeremy
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I read your posts to make sure readers of this forum know they are mainly observations and suggestions by you not fact
You are the stand out person who is fanatical staying up till 4 in the morning droning on about phone calls that will never in a million years prove Jeremy's guilt
As for me being fanatical?
I have never asked to vist jeremy
I never asked to go on the phone list
Jeremy asked me
I will do everything I can to help overturn this MOJ and you and your mate PH who you hold in high esteem will never stop me
You are a very angry person, try to get some sleep it might help
I get plenty of very nice pm messages thank you
How's Holly by the way, she is putting forward a good case for Jeremy
You're bonkers! ;D ;D ;D ;D
I don't have to prove Jeremy is guilty someone already did that and he's serving a life sentence!
You talk about 'the phone list' as though it's some kind of privilege or a grand prize, which is quite odd. I've no idea if you asked to be on it or not - but I bet you didn't ask to be removed from it!
You're making it look as though what I say hits home! If you weren't bothered, you just wouldn't reply. ;)
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I just like watching you running around in circles with useless posts.
But then again you changed your stance after your friendship with Mr H
Incase you hadn't noticed the forum is set up to discuss a MOJ ???
Keep up Caroline
Dodgy evidence
Bad police work
And a deceitful vile ex girlfriend out for revenge
Keep posting on the red I am enjoying it
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I just like watching you running around in circles with useless posts.
But then again you changed your stance after your friendship with Mr H
Incase you hadn't noticed the forum is set up to discuss a MOJ ???
Keep up Caroline
Dodgy evidence
Bad police work
And a deceitful vile ex girlfriend out for revenge
Keep posting on the red I am enjoying it
Then why don't you discuss the case Jackie? It's not that you just can't keep up, you're not even off the blocks yet ;D ;D
PH had nothing to do with my change of heart - that was Jeremy - ALL Jeremy!
I've never ran in a circle since I've been here - I'll leave that to the likes of you who can't be bothered to actually do any real research or use their brain. You just sit there copying and pasting, repeating the same BS and tell us all how you were once on the phone list! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Back to the thread.
Any one heard of DC wooltan before - it mentions his notebook?
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No,I haven't Jan,but I'll be doing some detecting. ;)
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Back to the thread.
Any one heard of DC wooltan before - it mentions his notebook?
I can't pick up that name,Jan. How annoying.I'm usually alright at sleuthing. :-[
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I just like watching you running around in circles with useless posts.
But then again you changed your stance after your friendship with Mr H
Incase you hadn't noticed the forum is set up to discuss a MOJ ???
Keep up Caroline
Dodgy evidence
Bad police work
And a deceitful vile ex girlfriend out for revenge
Keep posting on the red I am enjoying it
You claim evidence is dodgy but when challenged to explain what evidence an dprove how you can't do so, your few attempts fell apart completely.
You merely doemosntrated you don't know much about the facts and evidenc enor do you care you decided based on nothign to just assert Jeremy is innocent.
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You claim evidence is dodgy but when challenged to explain what evidence an dprove how you can't do so, your few attempts fell apart completely.
You merely doemosntrated you don't know much about the facts and evidenc enor do you care you decided based on nothign to just assert Jeremy is innocent.
was there a point to this post other than to have a dig?
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was there a point to this post other than to have a dig?
To show her attack on Caroline is unfounded in addition to childish.
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To show her attack on Caroline is unfounded in addition to childish.
Cheers Scip, it usually goes unheeded!
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Cheers Scip, it usually goes unheeded!
Really I just like to highlight facts not your wild theories
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To show her attack on Caroline is unfounded in addition to childish.
Hypocrite
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Really I just like to highlight facts not your wild theories
You never have so far!
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Hypocrite
Everyone jumps on Scipio for attacks but Jackie just gets away with it. Not that I'm bothered, but if I was accused of bias, then there is a certain amount of hypocrisy in letting Jackie say what she likes.
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Everyone jumps on Scipio for attacks but Jackie just gets away with it. Not that I'm bothered, but if I was accused of bias, then there is a certain amount of hypocrisy in letting Jackie say what she likes.
Well I know what you mean Caroline. But scipio has done this from the word off. Jackie was not always like this. She had received abuse (not from you admittedly) so much from various people and I suppose she sees it in everyone now. Sometimes I think she could tone it down a bit and not attack people so much. But scipio has no excuse and from his own mouth he says he enjoys watching us squirm. But I think that in a lot of her posts of course are over the top.
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Well I know what you mean Caroline. But scipio has done this from the word off. Jackie was not always like this. She had received abuse (not from you admittedly) so much from various people and I suppose she sees it in everyone now. Sometimes I think she could tone it down a bit and not attack people so much. But scipio has no excuse and from his own mouth he says he enjoys watching us squirm. But I think that in a lot of her posts of course are over the top.
Thanks for acknowledging it Grahame :). Nothing can upset me today - just caught Mr Jingles from the loft and set him free, hope he finds him Green Mile!
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Grahame
I will do what I can to help in this case in a highly visible way. I hope it makes people study the facts and their own conclusions about what happened at White House Farm. I believe with the right attitude and actions in place we can achieve something incredible, let's make it happen and shock everyone
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Grahame
I will do what I can to help in this case in a highly visible way. I hope it makes people study the facts and their own conclusions about what happened at White House Farm. I believe with the right attitude and actions in place we can achieve something incredible, let's make it happen and shock everyone
Let's hope so Jackie. What do you have in mind? PM me.
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This was going around work and I thought it was quite interesting. Check it out:
Link removed. The light has been proven to be a fake.
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I just like watching you running around in circles with useless posts.
But then again you changed your stance after your friendship with Mr H
Incase you hadn't noticed the forum is set up to discuss a MOJ ???
Keep up Caroline
Dodgy evidence
Bad police work
And a deceitful vile ex girlfriend out for revenge
Keep posting on the red I am enjoying it
Now now everyone calm down.
Jeremy's supporters seem to be getting more aggressive.
It was very surprising when even Nugs made a savage and swearing attack on me when I was offline. We had not engaged since the day before when I showed the 'we know you phoned Jeremy from WHF' alleged police quote was a made up quote.
His attack was also totally unfounded as several people PM'd me when I joined praising my posts. Hopefully I will get an apology PM.
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You need to calm down and get a grip. I don't understand your logic when the man is where you WANT him to be.!?