Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on October 26, 2014, 01:04:PM
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Photographs I have seen of Sheila on the bed do not include the triangular bloodstain on the top right of the nightdress visible in alternative photographs taken by police once they had moved her body onto the bedroom floor...
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More fairytales...
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Can't for the life of me imagine why they'd have needed to remove it. IF what you're suggesting is true, and there ARE two different pictures, they'd have had to remove the nightdress twice.
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Can't for the life of me imagine why they'd have needed to remove it. IF what you're suggesting is true, and there ARE two different pictures, they'd have had to remove the nightdress twice.
He on one hand says police moved her body right away from the bed to the floor. It is bad enough he can't come up with a motive for police to do so. But if they decided they were going to do that why would they take a photo before they moved her? They wouldn't and he claims she wa smoved by the time the police photographer started taking photos. It is all a fairytale.
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He on one hand says police moved her body right away from the bed to the floor. It is bad enough he can't come up with a motive for police to do so. But if they decided they were going to do that why would they take a photo before they moved her? They wouldn't and he claims she wa smoved by the time the police photographer started taking photos. It is all a fairytale.
Not HE, Scipio. OTHERS say things which he, in turn, passes on to us :D ;)
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He on one hand says police moved her body right away from the bed to the floor. It is bad enough he can't come up with a motive for police to do so. But if they decided they were going to do that why would they take a photo before they moved her? They wouldn't and he claims she wa smoved by the time the police photographer started taking photos. It is all a fairytale.
Probably the only reason to move a body from a bed to the floor would be if the person was still alive and in need of CPR? If a person was still alive there would not be time or even the inclination to take pictures at that particular time.
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Probably the only reason to move a body from a bed to the floor would be if the person was still alive and in need of CPR? If a person was still alive there would not be time or even the inclination to take pictures at that particular time.
This is what I think.That the noises which were heard was very likely Sheila coughing/clearing her throat,as some poor souls do before they die,and the police have thought that she was alive so lifted her onto the floor in order to perform CPR. They wouldn't have got as far as CPR,as any noise would have been the last reflex that Sheila would have managed before dying.
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This is what I think.That the noises which were heard was very likely Sheila coughing/clearing her throat,as some poor souls do before they die,and the police have thought that she was alive so lifted her onto the floor in order to perform CPR. They wouldn't have got as far as CPR,as any noise would have been the last reflex that Sheila would have managed before dying.
CPR would explain the blood being exhaled out of her mouth and nose.
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CPR would explain the blood being exhaled out of her mouth and nose.
Wouldn´t there be more blood if CPR had been performed?
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Wouldn´t there be more blood if CPR had been performed?
Sheila was absolutely soaked in blood Alias.
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Wouldn´t there be more blood if CPR had been performed?
From both sides of her mouth, and nostrils, yes...
This blood is missing in the photograph(s) taken of Sheila on the bed, and must have been produced after police moved her body to the bedroom floor after the second shot which killed her had been fired under the chin - at that time blood would have filled the cavity of her mouth as a result of her still being alive, with the fatal round penetrating through her neck under the chin and up through the cavity of her mouth and into her brain. Once CPR was adopted this blood started to come out of her mouth and nostrils, as well as the fatal wound under the chin, which is why there are bloodied fingermarks around the fatal wound site beneath the chin, because whilst CPR was being processed an attempt was being made to prevent blood running and leaking from it...
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On the reverse of Sheila's nightdress at the lab' there is a huge bloodstain which did not get replicated upon the sheepskin rug that her body ended up being laid upon when the official photographs were taken. We have been told that all there was on the carpet beneath where Sheila's body was resting, were a few small bloodspots that originated from June Bamber. Now, what I would like to know the answer to, and the question I would pose for someone to answer, is:-
How could none of the huge bloodstain on the reverse of Sheila's nightdress not get transferred onto the carpet / rug beneath where police photographed her body on the bedroom floor next to the edge of the bed, if Sheila had been shot with her body there, in that position twice, as alleged by the prosecutions case?
Impossible, is the only answer, that anyone can honestly give to such a question...
It should be obvious by now, that the blood on the rear of Sheila's nightdress got there from a different location in the farmhouse, or as the case may be, from the bed where her body had been and was laying before police moved her body from the bed to the bedroom floor, and gave her CPR...
Alternatively, the blood on the reverse of her nightdress, got there whilst her body had been laid downstairs on the kitchen floor...
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Police got rid of the Sheep skin rug, and a large piece of bedroom carpet from the vicinity where Sheila's body ended up eventually being laid...
By that stage, the blood on the reverse of her nightdress had already dried, which was why it did not get transferred onto the Sheepskin rug later on. Any presence of June Bambers blood on the rug or the carpet upon which Sheila was placed by the police, got there through contamination as a result of Sheila being laid on the bed which had Junes blood dripped and splashed all over it. This caused Junes blood to be transferred on the reverse of Sheila's nightdress, from the bed to the carpet / rug upon which Sheila's body had been placed by police, and fully explains why the huge bloodstain on the reverse of Sheila's nightdress never got replicated there, by the same process of transferred contamination - because by the time police moved her body the huge bloodstain on the reverse of her nightdress had long since dried before the police moved her body from one place to another...
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Police got rid of the Sheep skin rug, and a large piece of bedroom carpet from the vicinity where Sheila's body ended up eventually being laid...
By that stage, the blood on the reverse of her nightdress had already dried, which was why it did not get transferred onto the Sheepskin rug later on. Any presence of June Bambers blood on the rug or the carpet upon which Sheila was placed by the police, got there through contamination as a result of Sheila being laid on the bed which had Junes blood dripped and splashed all over it. This caused Junes blood to be transferred on the reverse of Sheila's nightdress, from the bed to the carpet / rug upon which Sheila's body had been placed by police, and fully explains why the huge bloodstain on the reverse of Sheila's nightdress never got replicated there, by the same process of transferred contamination - because by the time police moved her body the huge bloodstain on the reverse of her nightdress had long since dried before the police moved her body from one place to another...
In one of the pictures Mike Sheila is lying on the floot and there is a massive bloodstain on the bed cover. In the other picture where we notice her hand has been moved (allegedly to photograph the blood under her hand) the blood is missing from the bed.
I wonder if the reason there was no blood on the bed in yet another picture was because the police removed the bed cover?
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Wouldn´t there be more blood if CPR had been performed?
Apologies for what I'm about to say.
It's not unusual for a person nearing death,to clear their throat,regardless of the circumstances,and in Sheilas' case,this is what the officers will have heard---------thinking that Sheila was choking,so their natural/normal reaction would have been to have put her on a flat,solid surface to perform CPR.
Sadly,it would have been too late anyway,but the woman will still have been warm at that point,as death was instantaneous.
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Apologies for what I'm about to say.
It's not unusual for a person nearing death,to clear their throat,regardless of the circumstances,and in Sheilas' case,this is what the officers will have heard---------thinking that Sheila was choking,so their natural/normal reaction would have been to have put her on a flat,solid surface to perform CPR.
Sadly,it would have been too late anyway,but the woman will still have been warm at that point,as death was instantaneous.
The pattern of the blood from bed to floor would have been because Sheila had been moved.
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Sheila was absolutely soaked in blood Alias.
1) The only blood on her was her shoulder area and the blood that transferred from her wrist. No blood got from her mouth to other parts of her body it just went down the sides of her mouth to the floor.
2) The blood got in her mouth from her fatal wound. The fatal wound tore through the roof of her mouth to enter her brain. She was instantly dead at that point.
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Sheila was absolutely soaked in blood Alias.
I know June was but, but given her wounds, Sheila's clothes looked remarkably blood free.
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Not HE, Scipio. OTHERS say things which he, in turn, passes on to us :D ;)
No this is Mike. What he does is he mixes past nonsense that has already been rejected with his own spin including placing himself in the middle of things such as supposedly seeing a photo of Sheila in bed and at one point even claimed the kitchen. He sometimes claims she was in the kitchen then moved to the bed then moved to the floor.
It really depends on what strikes his fancy. He is now making up the tale of a big blood stain on her back. That is his own invention, not coming from others.
The most obvious reason he is full of it it that there is no way police would decide to move her body in order to conceal how/where she was found and yet document it by taking photos. If you are trying to conceal something you don't take photos to docuemnt what you are hiding.
That alone puts these claims to bed. The fact he claimed Jeremy's former lawyer saw it but refused to use it to help is even more ridiculous. Then we have the actual diagrams posted of where the blood stains were found on her gown and the defense reports discussing them and yet mike still has some biased people convicned his claims could be true.
That is a true baromoter of the degree of bias some have. Those who give any amount of credence to Mike are so biased they will believe any ridiculous thing no matter how lacking in evidence to support it. That in turn encourages him to continue and he likes the attention and feeds off it.
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What I don't get is Craigs' examination of Sheila to confirm death as having " a solitary shot to her neck ?" The time being 08.44. Miller had accompanied Dr Craig. Then also as Miller attended the inquest,referred to Sheila having taken her life,using one bullet. Then later,photographic evidence showed two shots ? Why two if she'd already been certified as being dead, by Dr Craig ?
That would have meant that the first shot killed her ?
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What I don't get is Craigs' examination of Sheila to confirm death as having " a solitary shot to her neck ?" The time being 08.44. Miller had accompanied Dr Craig. Then also as Miller attended the inquest,referred to Sheila having taken her life,using one bullet. Then later,photographic evidence showed two shots ? Why two if she'd already been certified as being dead, by Dr Craig ?
That would have meant that the first shot killed her ?
In his statement, Craig noted a single gunshot wound to each victim. He declared them dead and noted a gun shot wound that would have been able to result in death so that he could justify saying each was, "apparently killed by being shot with a gun".
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No,I'm not buying that because with the others it WASN'T one single gunshot at all. That's very misleading and far from being professional as more than one gunshot could have been the cause of instantaneous death. ONE gunshot doesn't necessarily mean that it killed them outright.
I'm not falling for your trumped-up version of anything.
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No,I'm not buying that because with the others it WASN'T one single gunshot at all. That's very misleading and far from being professional as more than one gunshot could have been the cause of instantaneous death. ONE gunshot doesn't necessarily mean that it killed them outright.
I'm not falling for your trumped-up version of anything.
My version happens to be the truth. Despite the fact each victim was shot multiple times he didn't bother to carefully try to assess how many shots each suffered in full. That would require disturbing the bodies. He noted a single gunshot wound to each capable of resulting in death and used that to justify his claim they apparently all died from being shot.
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My version happens to be the truth. Despite the fact each victim was shot multiple times he didn't bother to carefully try to assess how many shots each suffered in full. That would require disturbing the bodies. He noted a single gunshot wound to each capable of resulting in death and used that to justify his claim they apparently all died from being shot.
Your versions couldn't be further from the truth.You're bullsh1tting !
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Your versions couldn't be further from the truth.You're bullsh1tting !
Craig's statement does indeed declare each victim to be dead, identifies a single shot to each victim and use that to justify saying the victim was apparently killed by a gun.
Your refusal to face this is true doesn't render it false or BS it just means you choose to live in denial.
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I do agree with Scipio on this one - I don't particularly agree with why he did that way because it could have been a combination of the shots that caused the deaths - but the fact that he did the same for each victim must be taken into account. If he had just said each victims death was caused by multiple gun shots , and then Sheilas just said one gun shot it would be different.
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I do agree with Scipio on this one - I don't particularly agree with why he did that way because it could have been a combination of the shots that caused the deaths - but the fact that he did the same for each victim must be taken into account. If he had just said each victims death was caused by multiple gun shots , and then Sheilas just said one gun shot it would be different.
Even if he mentioned multiple on others and only 1 on Sheila that still doesn't support the conspiracy claims.
For the conspiracy claims to be true he had to erroneously declare Sheila dead. On top of that the medical assessment that both shots were fired seconds apart would have to be wrong.
Much more likely would be that he didn't look her over very throughly and missed a wound than not realizing she was still alive and the shots being fired very distant from one another. In fact, if the shots were fired very distant she would have died from the first wound because a loss of blood.
Craig also noted her body was on the floor.
That would mean she had to have been moved before he saw. Who would have had a camera and why would they take her picture in bed if they planned to pretend she had been on the floor and not in bed? Who would document something they wanted to conceal with a photo?
I don't understand why peopel continue with this at all, it has no legs which is why it was never alleged at trial. These kinds of fairytales are inveted later when there is nothing to lose. They are largely invented for public consumption so for propaganda merely.
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I know June was but, but given her wounds, Sheila's clothes looked remarkably blood free.
You surely could not have missed the enormous blood stain in her arm pit surely. If she was instantly dead from the shot to her brain, then she would not have bled that much.
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You surely could not have missed the enormous blood stain in her arm pit surely. If she was instantly dead from the shot to her brain, then she would not have bled that much.
Grahame, compared to June's condition, I think Sheila was remarkably clean. Perhaps it's because the pictures are old.
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Grahame, compared to June's condition, I think Sheila was remarkably clean. Perhaps it's because the pictures are old.
I'm not comparing her with anyone. We are talking about Sheila, not June and the fact remains that he armpit was drenched in blood.
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I personally see one consistent pattern in the posts from Scipio. He 100% believes the EP in what they said in the September statements and also he 100% believes them every time when they said they made a mistake in what they saw or did.
And that is one of the main differences in our opinions , because all these "mistakes" add up to a different picture . IMO
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I personally see one consistent pattern in the posts from Scipio. He 100% believes the EP in what they said in the September statements and also he 100% believes them every time when they said they made a mistake in what they saw or did.
And that is one of the main differences in our opinions , because all these "mistakes" add up to a different picture . IMO
Because his scenario only works if he does believe the police. You will notice also that he believes every word of Mugford's as well. Why? Because if he didn't again his scenario will not work and for exactly the same reason he does not believe Bamber's version.
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You surely could not have missed the enormous blood stain in her arm pit surely. If she was instantly dead from the shot to her brain, then she would not have bled that much.
The first wound didn't kill her instantly she bled for several seconds before the second shot was fired.
You bleedforecfully till your heart stops pumping and at that point the blood will not be forced out and just gravity takes over.
The amount of blood on her would have been substantially more had there been a more significant distance than 10 seconds or so between shots.
These are the assessments of the medical professionals which were never rebutted or even seriously questioned.
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I personally see one consistent pattern in the posts from Scipio. He 100% believes the EP in what they said in the September statements and also he 100% believes them every time when they said they made a mistake in what they saw or did.
And that is one of the main differences in our opinions , because all these "mistakes" add up to a different picture . IMO
That is because I am unbiased and think logicially. Many of the supposed mistakes police made were not even mistakes. The actual mistakes in the case have no implications at all. Why would someone type DHR/33 on 2 forms and yet DRH/44? There is no reaosn, there is nothing to gain from it being done intentionally.
The actual mistakes all have plausible reaosns for such errors and no plausible reason for intentionally committing them.
Someone biased will ignore logic and insist some ridiculpous nefarious tale that doesn't add up to try to support their position because that is how bias operates.
There is nothing to challenge the moderator evidence. Ther eis no evidence to estbalish the blood in it was planted. Nor is there a way to say the blood coudl have gotten there by accident. Jeremy supporters can't explain how changing the exibit reference establishes blood was planted, indeed it doesn't suggest such. There are just generalized claims of wrongdoing alleged as an excuse to say the evidence should be disregarded. It is an effort to avoid having to actually find a way to establish the blood was planted. It is just a way to try to ignore evidence that can't be refuted. WHile that kind of trick might work on someone ignorant it will not work on the courts or people who are skilled in the concepts of proof and evidence.
That is really the bootom line. The same kinds of games that have no legal significance won't work with me because I operate based on the same system that the courts do.
Take for instance what I see as one of the biggest fake claims of police wrongdoing- the moving of Sheila. There is evidence in the form of testimony and photos that demosntrate that after Sheila was photographed in the state she was found in, that her body was moved to look for shell casings that ended up being found under her body and the gun was moved and her arm was moved revelaing a blood stain on her gown where her swist had been so they took a photo of that stain as well.
What wrongdoing was there? Police have to move her body to search for evidence and take her to the coroner. A nonsense conspiracy is made of tkaing photos of her after moving ther though there is no valid one to actually make. A mountain is made out of something not even a molehill.
I want proof there was wrongdoing. I want evidence to establish who did what wrong, when and why. I am not operating through biased goggles where I see anything and everything as wrongdoing and then leap to the conclusion it proves Jeremy was framed though such doesn't in and of itself doesn't establish he was framed.
I want particulars. Who did what, when and how. If you don' have that and want to argue blood was planted but you don't know who did it or when then you need to prove how it could be done and evidence of some kind that it was done such as the blood having a preservative agent not found in the human body but rather indicative of the blood being from a blood sample.
That kind of substance is the difference between an MOJ being proved and just wild speculation and allegations about an MOJ.
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Police took 481 photographs, including 223 at the scene - these were put into what has become known, as ' the senior investigating officers album'. Police took 50 of these 481 photographs, and made them into what became known as, 'the court album', with some 431 photographs deliberately withheld from the defence, from the jury, so that the prosecution could drip feed lies to the jury,whilst controlling what images were seen, and when...
481 photographs taken (Senior investigating officers album)...
223 photograohs taken at the scene (Master copy album)...
50 produced at court (Court album)...