Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: nugnug on June 19, 2014, 11:56:PM
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this is somthing thats allways bugged me about the case they had 5 bodys to work on.
but they couldent get a time of death from any of them,
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If it was Sheila, everyone must have died between 3.20am - 3.48am.
Neville was still alive and phoned Jeremy at 3.20am saying 'Sheila has gone crazy and she's got the gun'. Surely Neville had not already let Sheila kill everyone else and reload. Had he ?
The police arrived at 3.48am. They do not recall hearing any shots or seeing anyone going 'crazy' inside WHF. Apart from the 'trick of the light'.
Sheila certainly killed Neville after 3.20am. Beating and shooting him. If the others were still alive, she then shot them. Then shot herself, once. Took the silencer off. Put it neatly away. Showered and changed. Painted her toe nails. Then shot herself again. All in less than half an hour.
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If it was Jeremy it was between 11pm - 2am. Probably around 2am as that is likely to be the time they are in their deepest sleep.
But Jeremy told police he was 'sleeping like a log'. Luckily he managed to hear his downstairs phone. And answer it before the answering machine clicked on.
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what im suprised at is they couldn't get a time of death out of at least one body.
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If it was Sheila, everyone must have died between 3.20am - 3.48am.
Neville was still alive and phoned Jeremy at 3.20am saying 'Sheila has gone crazy and she's got the gun'. Surely Neville had not already let Sheila kill everyone else and reload. Had he ?
The police arrived at 3.48am. They do not recall hearing any shots or seeing anyone going 'crazy' inside WHF. Apart from the 'trick of the light'.
Sheila certainly killed Neville after 3.20am. Beating and shooting him. If the others were still alive, she then shot them. Then shot herself, once. Took the silencer off. Put it neatly away. Showered and changed. Painted her toe nails. Then shot herself again. All in less than half an hour.
could have been 3.10 ( as you well know because even the police have different times recorded )
And how do you know that Sheila was not alive whilst the police were outside ?
We cant even establish what lights were on or off - so for those few hours she could have been in a bedroom out of site contemplating what she had done. You can be sarcastic if you want but you have come up with some pretty ridiculous scenarios yourself to be fair.
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now if bodys had been moved that could of made it harder to tell the time of death but they couldn't all of been moved theres no suggestion that june or the twins were.
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If it was Sheila, everyone must have died between 3.20am - 3.48am.
Neville was still alive and phoned Jeremy at 3.20am saying 'Sheila has gone crazy and she's got the gun'. Surely Neville had not already let Sheila kill everyone else and reload. Had he ?
The police arrived at 3.48am. They do not recall hearing any shots or seeing anyone going 'crazy' inside WHF. Apart from the 'trick of the light'.
Sheila certainly killed Neville after 3.20am. Beating and shooting him. If the others were still alive, she then shot them. Then shot herself, once. Took the silencer off. Put it neatly away. Showered and changed. Painted her toe nails. Then shot herself again. All in less than half an hour.
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Hang on Adam.
'Sheila did all of that after shooting herself once ? But the pathologist said the shock & pain of the first shot would have left her immobilised. And I thought the gun was too long anyway.
But how did Sheila's blood get on the silencer ? Oh yes, the 'late late' police frame up.
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it strikes me the pathologist was ether very bad or time of death was found but it dident suit the prosecution case.
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If it was Sheila, surely everyone died after Neville's phone call.
Neville would not cower in the corner. Then go & ring Jeremy after Sheila had pumped seven bullets into June. Then four bullets into the twins. Then reloaded and went and fired another four bullets into the twins.
Neville would have done something. Even if it meant he died or got injured. But how would he die or get injured if he confronted Sheila after she had run out of bullets. The 2002 appeal says he was fit & 6.4. BW said he could restrain Sheila with one arm.
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im not really trying to esbalish a time im trying to establish why they couldent establish a time with 5 body's i would of thought they should have been able to.
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What do think Sheila was doing when Neville phoned Jeremy ?
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If it was Sheila, surely everyone died after Neville's phone call.
Neville would not cower in the corner. Then go & ring Jeremy after Sheila had pumped seven bullets into June. Then four bullets into the twins. Then reloaded and went and fired another four bullets into the twins.
Neville would have done something. Even if it meant he died or got injured. But how would he die or get injured if he confronted Sheila after she had run out of bullets. The 2002 appeal says he was fit & 6.4. BW said he could restrain Sheila with one arm.
well it certan nevile did or he couldent of made the call.
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im not really trying to esbalish a time im trying to establish why they establish a time with 5 body's i would of thought they should have been able to.
quite agree nug nug and if I had been in the defence team I would have asked why nothing was recorded.
was it possibly because of the late time the bodies were taken to the mortuary ?
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it could of been but they have manged to get time off of bodys in worse states before.
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this is somthing thats allways bugged me about the case they had 5 bodys to work on.
but they couldent get a time of death from any of them,
Providing a window for time of death requires taking the temperature of the victim at intervals to try to figure out the temperature loss rate and extrapolate. Other techniques involve lyfe cycles of flies found on the bodies and invovles knowing the emperature of the location among other things.
The level of rigor is used sometimes but the window is large and temperature effects it.
General rules of thumb are that rigor starts 2-4 hours after death. It reaches the maximum rigid state (well established) at 8-12 hours depending on temperature. It will take 8 hours when warm and up to 12 hours when it is cooler. If placed on ice and extreme cool is used this can push back maximum rigidity even longer but it is rare for someone to go to such lengths of using extreme cold to do such) It stays that way for 12-18 hours. Then rigor will dissipate and be completely gone within 36-48 hours. The window if death can be quite large then.
The ME was not on the scene right away to do anything to try to assess time of death. The ME waited for the bodies to arrive at the morgue before doing anything.
He started his examinations at 3:30PM. Sheila was first so the others actually had more time than her to reach peak rigid state. All of them were at peak rigid state including Sheila which means they died at least 8-12 before they were examined. So Sheila was dead by anywhere from 3:30-7:30AM. Since it was summer and the temperature warm it would be more likely to be the 8-10 hour range as opposed to 12 hour range. So in all likelihood they died by 3:30-5:30.
Note dead "BY". Since well established rigor takes 8-12 hours to set in and lasts up to 18 hours well established rigor means one died at least 8-12 hours earlier and as many as 30 hours earlier.
So how could the ME come up with a good time of death based on rigor given such window?
They were known to have been alive by witnesses as late at 10PM. So all we can say from rigor combined with such info is that they died somewhere after 10PM and were dead by 3:30-7:30AM (again because of the weather it is not likely it would have taken 12 hours to set in).
For those who want to pretend that police shot her or moved her body very quickly after she was shot this is not good news. Police found her body after 7:30 but with the 12 hour window she had to be dead by 7:30 and in fact honestly by 5:30 because the temperature would not have likely delayed fully rigor until 12 hours.
But there never was any evidence to back up the claim that police had shot her anyway or that she shot herself and then they moved her body flat immediately thereafter. No police heard any shots like they would have and all 7 who were the first to see her body say she was flat when found.
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Jeremy wanted the cops to go in quickly. He knew the time was not long enough for Sheila to kill everyone, as he received his father's call for argument's sake at 3.26 and the police came at around 3.48 or so. Certainly not much time admittedly for her to go from no one killed to everyone killed.
Remember that Jeremy wanted them to go in right away. But if they did go in right away it would not have looked too good for him if they were all dead.
But it was the police's decision to wait and eventually the raid team went in at approximately 7am say. So so effectively this gave Sheila a lot longer to kill everyone and herself. I don't go along with the notion that they would have heard the shots from a .22 rifle. If that farm house was a turn of the century house those walls are probably 12" thick in places and what with furniture further deadening the sound and the close contact of the shots to Sheila herself thus having the effect of a silencer I reckon not much would be heard from the house at all.
But having said that of course we must remember that the telephone was off the hook and the phone company was listening in and reported only the sound of a barking dog.
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Jeremy wanted the cops to go in quickly. He knew the time was not long enough for Sheila to kill everyone, as he received his father's call for argument's sake at 3.26 and the police came at around 3.48 or so. Certainly not much time admittedly for her to go from no one killed to everyone killed.
Remember that Jeremy wanted them to go in right away. But if they did go in right away it would not have looked too good for him if they were all dead.
But it was the police's decision to wait and eventually the raid team went in at approximately 7am say. So so effectively this gave Sheila a lot longer to kill everyone and herself. I don't go along with the notion that they would have heard the shots from a .22 rifle. If that farm house was a turn of the century house those walls are probably 12" thick in places and what with furniture further deadening the sound and the close contact of the shots to Sheila herself thus having the effect of a silencer I reckon not much would be heard from the house at all.
But having said that of course we must remember that the telephone was off the hook and the phone company was listening in and reported only the sound of a barking dog.
1) Jeremy didn't plead with police to go in right away. He scared the crap out of them with lies about Sheila firing all the guns in the house and exaggerating how many weapons were in the house. At 5:30AM he supposedly asked what was going on and at that point he still didn't demand they go in he instead said he wanted to talk to Julie. He called Julie, told her not to go to work because he wanted her to talk to police and tell them how he reported to her that Nevill phoned thinking that this would convince them the call happened. All that wa son his mind was the framejob not any concenr for his family.
2) The police went in after 7:30AM not around 7.
3) Gunshot sounds travel through windows especially crappy windows like the farm had tryign to pretend the sound could not have been heard outside is futile and nonsense coming from people like you who deny reality and make bogus claims all the time to try to pretend Jeremy is innocent.
Gunshots will not travel through windows, police got together in a vast conspiracy, Nevill chose to phone Jeremy for help though it would take him a while to arrive even if he answered but he would not be likely to answer, and took this unusual option instead of disarming his daughter himself or arming himselff to stop her. Worse yet this crazy daughter left him alone to use the phone then didn't shoot him but rather according to you went to the phone and held down the buttons to disconnect the call. To do that she would be too close to keep the gun aimed at Nevill and worse would have only 1 hand holding it so Nevill could have disarmed her easily. But instead he hoped Jeremy woudl arrive in time to save him and instead of shooting him there she marched him to the bedroom to shoot June and him together.
Not only is this nonsense totally unsupported by any evidence it makes no sense at all from any standpoint. That is what you peddle asburd things that have no evidentiary basis.
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There was NO excuse whatsoever not to have used a rectal thermometer in which to give them an appx time of death. I see no reason why they didn't,as it's carried out at ALL murder scenes that the police are called out to,unless the body has lain for days.
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well you would think would be normal procedure.
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Of course it is,nugs. A lot of work can be done by knowing when a person died. It goes towards solving a crime,or a sudden death.
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mind you if they thought shiela was the killer they might not of bothered.
but procedure wise i still think there supposed to.
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In view of what has happened to Jeremy,it would have been vital to have given a time of death.
It would have tallied with the time of his fathers call,and stopped the guilters from saying he'd" killed them at midnight ".
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There was NO excuse whatsoever not to have used a rectal thermometer in which to give them an appx time of death. I see no reason why they didn't,as it's carried out at ALL murder scenes that the police are called out to,unless the body has lain for days.
Unless a temperature reading of the scene and body temperature are both taken very early upon finding the body then it is worthless.
Such can't be done off scene it needs to be done on scnee and the records have to be taken as soon as possible. The temperature will drop to the temperature of the room the body is in. The interval can vary which is why you would want to keep taking readings to see if you could get as close as possible to the interval the drop is occurring at.
Moreover natural body temperature fluctuates. Even though 98.6F is normal body temperature in reality the body temperature will fluctuate between 96.7 and 99. Rectal temp is actually higher than this, the average rectal temp is 99.1-99.35F BUT can fluctuate between 97.2 and 99.75.
So right off the bat this natural fluctuation creates a situation where we don't know what the original temperature was and thus the estimate can be thrown off by several hours.
Clothing and other variables make it hard to know precisely what the heat loss rate will be which is why we have to monitor it to try to figure out the exact rate in the situation at hand. Just using some generic rate will be imprecise and cause even a great margin of error. Worse yet loss of heat is not necessarily uniform. Even though we like to pretend heat loss will be 1.5 degrees F per hour sometimes a body will lose less sometimes more it will not be uniform hourly loss necessarily.
Using the 1.5 loss rate the margin of error will be several hours. The variation of the starting temp at death will cause more problems. You still need the temperature of the environment in the meantime which also can fluctuate.
Let's assume the deaths occurred at 2:30AM. They were exained 3:30PM and later.
Suppose their temperature at 3:30AM was 72 degrees. Suppose also they had been in the cold morgue for 2 hours but before that had been in a hot truck.
How are you supposed to figure anything out accurately? Initial body temp could have been anywhere from 97.2 and 99.75. Plugging in the 1.5F/hour loss rate we get 16.8-18.5 hours.
But being placed in a hot truck not only could have inhibited loss it could have caused the body to heat. Placing it in the cool morgue would cause more rapid cooling. It could be greatly distorted by this.
You need reliable readings of the environment where the bodies were found and the readings at those times to even have any hope of giving a range with an error rate of only 1.5-2 hours.
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Doesn´t mean they shouldn´t have measured body temperatures. It could potentially have told them SOMETHING about the time of death.
I know it is hard to determine the time of death, it is still used though - just not in this case.
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well they could of given aproxmate time of death but they dident even seem to able to do that.
i mean in most murder cases the body isnt found straght away but in most of them they can still give a time of death.
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Doesn´t mean they shouldn´t have measured body temperatures. It could potentially have told them SOMETHING about the time of death.
I know it is hard to determine the time of death, it is still used though - just not in this case.
In some cases it means something. If the times of death could have been established as being before Nevill even allegedly called Jeremy definitively that would be another nail in Jeremy's coffin. But given the window or error in such calculations he would have needed to kill them hours before for it to fall outside the margin of error and prove for sure that they died before he claimed Nevill phoned him. So their failure to do so probably made no difference.
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Are you drunk, scipio? That´s OK! Makes you even more human and likeable! ;D and 8)
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Are you drunk, scipio? That´s OK! Makes you even more human and likeable! ;D and 8)
No I'm of Italian descent it is difficult to get me drunk- I only get buzzed. The only time I truly got drunk was when I drank like 3/4 a bottle of 151 (after already being buzzed from Jaeger and some other crap I hated). I remember chugging the 151 but nothing beyond that. When I woke up the next day I was on top of a coke machine in the laundry room of an all female dorm. I had no clue how I got there. All I know is that when I left I heard rumors flying around campus about how they were looking for guys who went on a panty raid in the dorm. Then I met my friends and they were pissed at me saying I ditched them and that they almost got killed looking for me. They claim that as we used the bathroom, that we heard 2 lesbos moaning in the shower and that they heard us talking about them so popped out of the shower stall. They were like 300 pounds each, I supposedly insulted them by saying something about them being lesbos because even Moby Dick would not go near them and then they started to chase us. They said I vanished and as they tried to find me the fat chicks grabbed field hockey sticks or something and tried to kill them. They finally gave up looking for me and seconds after they ran from the building the cops pulled up and just missed catching them. They said if it wasn't for me they would have been long gone before to cops arrived. I don't particularly believe that they looked long and hard for me because they were not the type. We supposedly saw plently of T&A but I remember none of it so don't know how true that is ether. All I know is a panty raid of some sort did actually occur and I somehow ended up sleeping on the coke machine where it happened so may indeed have taken part. I haven't drank 151 since.
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Alias I told you I imagine two fat ladies shakin their booty running down the street after the drop dead gorgeous scipio ;D wonder what they did to him when they caught him :'( maybe more bits shakin ;D
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Funny stuff! ;D
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Alias I told you I imagine two fat ladies shakin their booty running down the street after the drop dead gorgeous scipio ;D wonder what they did to him when they caught him :'( maybe more bits shakin ;D
According to my friends they were not shaking their booties but rather fists and sticks. With or without weapons someone with that much meat on their bones can be dangerous. There is a show South Beach Tow about a company that tows vehicle and does vehicle reposessions. The fat lady on it, Berniece, is the toughest one of the bunch. The guys are total wusses she is the one who tosses bodies around including men not just women.
I don't know if the fat woman story is true or not though. Lesbos running nude after us doesn't seem to make sense. Making up the fat women entirely doesn't sound like what they would make up- if anything they would make up hot women- so we probably did encouter fat women but the story of them chasing us for more than a few seconds I find hard to buy. Maybe they just ran away from me without being chased and were trying to save face. They ditched me in plenty of other locations including a bad area of New Orleans so I don't particularly believe they made an effort to find me as opposed to either leaving or pursuing more debauchery and almost getting caught for that.
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scipio booties would have been much more exciting than fists and sticks what a disappointment for you next time you may get lucky ;D ;D ;D ;D chill out man ;D
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It's that fat lady again. ;D ;D She ain't singing---------------yet !!
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scipio booties would have been much more exciting than fists and sticks what a disappointment for you next time you may get lucky ;D ;D ;D ;D chill out man ;D
I got lucky by either not seeing or not remembering seeing their cottage cheese butts. Once you see rolls of fat it is exit stage left.
If you have a booty like this you need a diet:
(http://s27.postimg.org/if9q9qxib/farsidelost_puppy.jpg)
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Ha Ha Scipio I think maybe you did get lucky and don't remember it. I am lucky I have a well toned pert little butt no cream cheese for me ;D ;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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this is somthing thats allways bugged me about the case they had 5 bodys to work on.
but they couldent get a time of death from any of them,
They did how could EP come to the conclusion Shelia was responsible if let's say June had died last? You are just being guillable to believe no time was given for each death.
This now is a problem reveal Jeremy is innocent and you show PV adapts his reports to the situation you then ask the awkward question did he adapt his report into Diana's death? This may not what the royal family want more controversy about Diana's death.
So you see the problems?
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you think they did get a time of death bambergate.
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you think they did get a time of death bambergate.
Dr Craig reportedly estimated they could have died anytime overnight. That is according to a pro- Jeremy source. I have yet to see his actual testimony or statement where he stated such though.
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It's NOT good enough just to guess a time of death. A mans' life depended on this timing,,particularly Sheila who,it seems,was the last to die. What was so difficult that the temps couldn't have been taken whether it was murder or suicide ?
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Dr Craig reportedly estimated they could have died anytime overnight. That is according to a pro- Jeremy source. I have yet to see his actual testimony or statement where he stated such though.
Scipio why do you think Dr Craig only picked one particular wound on each body to mention in his statement ?
This has always puzzled me - why did he not mention all the other gunshot wounds ?
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page 3
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Scipio why do you think Dr Craig only picked one particular wound on each body to mention in his statement ?
This has always puzzled me - why did he not mention all the other gunshot wounds ?
Because he didn't carefully inspect the bodies to count each wound which would have required moving the bodies to inspect every inch and cleaning the blood away to make sure you find them all. His job was to determine if they were dead. He noted what he thought could be a fatal shot on each body and the fact they had no vital signs so that he could say they were dead apparently from being shot.
I don't know if he gave any other statements or testified about the time of death or condition of the bodies such as partial rigor. I haven't seen any other statements only a claim he stated they could could died anytime overnight.
By the way, this is one of the things used to twist. Some Jeremy supporters suggest that Sheila only had 1 wound because he only noted 1 and that this proves the second was fired after he was gone. But that logic requires asserting the shots to the others were also subsequent. But they don't do that which shows deception is at play not just making a mistake and not realizing he only mentioned 1 wound for each victim. Upon scrutiny most claims aimed at supporting Jeremy are akin to this and feature twisting to deceive. The claim that there is evidence Nevill called police himself is a perfect example. Also the claim that there was more than 1 suppressor because there were 3 exhibits SBJ/1, DB/1 and DRB/1 but documents show that these are all references to the same suppressor and detail how and why the change occurred. The documents that use DB/1 and DRB/1 were not created in August 1985 but rather months later.
When you do this you lose credibility and the public at large will not trust a thing you say even when you say something valid. So it is not wise to intentionally distort.
Instead of just dismissing a claim based on who made it I am willing to look at the claim to evaluate it but most won't.
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Because he didn't carefully inspect the bodies to count each wound which would have required moving the bodies to inspect every inch and cleaning the blood away to make sure you find them all. His job was to determine if they were dead. He noted what he thought could be a fatal shot on each body and the fact they had no vital signs so that he could say they were dead apparently from being shot.
I don't know if he gave any other statements or testified about the time of death or condition of the bodies such as partial rigor. I haven't seen any other statements only a claim he stated they could could died anytime overnight.
By the way, this is one of the things used to twist. Some Jeremy supporters suggest that Sheila only had 1 wound because he only noted 1 and that this proves the second was fired after he was gone. But that logic requires asserting the shots to the others were also subsequent. But they don't do that which shows deception is at play not just making a mistake and not realizing he only mentioned 1 wound for each victim. Upon scrutiny most claims aimed at supporting Jeremy are akin to this and feature twisting to deceive. The claim that there is evidence Nevill called police himself is a perfect example. Also the claim that there was more than 1 suppressor because there were 3 exhibits SBJ/1, DB/1 and DRB/1 but documents show that these are all references to the same suppressor and detail how and why the change occurred. The documents that use DB/1 and DRB/1 were not created in August 1985 but rather months later.
When you do this you lose credibility and the public at large will not trust a thing you say even when you say something valid. So it is not wise to intentionally distort.
Instead of just dismissing a claim based on who made it I am willing to look at the claim to evaluate it but most won't.
But he would not have had to look very far to see the other wounds on any of the bodies would he? Surely he could have said "one wound was between the eyes , and there were other shots?/ injuries " then declared them as being dead. He described other parts of the scene that were not necessary - so it seems very unprofessional to me.
Its sloppy statements like this that cause ambiguity . And although I can appreciate your point of view this combines with the police telling the relatives she died of one gun shot and then Sheila saying the same thing seems ridiculous. If they thought it was murder suicide and they all knew she died of two
shots then why not say so.
Also if he left at 9.50 why did the bodies go to the morgue until 3pm?
5 hours of taking photos? Lots of which we apparently have not seen?
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But he would not have had to look very far to see the other wounds on any of the bodies would he? Surely he could have said "one wound was between the eyes , and there were other shots?/ injuries " then declared them as being dead. He described other parts of the scene that were not necessary - so it seems very unprofessional to me.
Its sloppy statements like this that cause ambiguity . And although I can appreciate your point of view this combines with the police telling the relatives she died of one gun shot and then Sheila saying the same thing seems ridiculous. If they thought it was murder suicide and they all knew she died of two
shots then why not say so.
Also if he left at 9.50 why did the bodies go to the morgue until 3pm?
5 hours of taking photos? Lots of which we apparently have not seen?
The only ambiguity in the statement is in saying they died hours plural earlier. It would be nice if he stated the characteristics that lead to such conclusion such as rigor. He was able to be questioned at any time needed and to testify at trial if need be so didn't need more detail. His statement of them dying hours earlier doesn't leave the possibility open of Sheila dying as police entered at 7:30. If she died hours earlier as claimed then the possibility of police being the ones who moved her flat as she was still bleeding and to have opened and closed the bible is out the window.
Not wearching for every wound to document them is not ambiguous. It is the job of the coroner to locate and cocument all wounds and marks of any kind to he body and determine the cause of death. People can be shot and have died from something else. His job was to determine they were dead, recite the apparent cause of death if there was an apparent cause and to assess a tentative time of death if possible to aid those on the scene so they can at least have an idea of what evidence they should look for and try to collect. The scene work is prliminary the ME report is what is important for the overall case.
Years later you can try pretending a lot of things like that Craig was asserting each only had 1 wound. A proper investigator though if they truly believed such were a possibility would interview Craig and ask him. Was he asserting there was only asingle wound on each victim or did he merely decide to note only 1. I guarantee his answer woudl be he chose to note onyl 1 and most people realize that so would not even question him.
But this is the proper way an investigation down the road happens. You look for things and then you try to find further information about those things that you find concerning. It is totally improper to do what many do in thei case and others which is to try to pretend a statement means something it might not or worse something it clearly doesn't.
A good example of this is with Bonnet's call form. His form stated he received a message from PC West, he put PC West as the caller. It noted how West spoke to Nevill's son, and quoted what Nevill allegedly told his son. He also wrote down the phone number of WHF so that they could get the operator to try to break in. He recorded the call at 3:36AM. In his statement Bonnet made it clear PC West called him on an internal line and passed the message. He didn't claim to have spoken to Nevill. Some people chose to ignore his statement discussing PC West as transferring the message and also to ignore how on the form he detailed PC West as the caller and to instead concentrate on the quote and phone number to pretend it was evidence of a call from Nevill. This is no good for court, they woudl need to interview Bonnet and get an affidavit to submit to court where he claied to have received a call from Nevill. An investigator who wondered if such were possible woul dhave to interview him and then get an affidavit isf he said something favorable. But they alreayd had reaosn to know he would not support their revisionist account so never spoke to him. Instead they just twist the form ignoring his written statment about the events.
The same is tried with Craig's actual statement but his whole statement isn't posted because then it would be apparent he only noted 1 wound on each victim and the jig would be up.
I have no problem with investigations of convictions to make sure they are sound. I have a problem when evidence it twisted to try to pretend someone was wrongly convicted but there is no actual reliable evidence they were wrongly convicted.
When substantial evidence shows that Stanley Jones did not search the house for evidence but rather went to Goldahnger to spend most of the day interviewing witnesses, and there are no forms to indicate that Jones collected any physical evidence on the day in question only testimonial evidence then when someone makes an allegation he collected a moderator on the day in question it is not credible. When the claim is made that it was assigned designation SJ/1 but no documentary evidence is offered to prove anything with such designation was collected it is all the more reason not to believe it. SJ is not the prefix assigned to his exhibits in cases SBJ was the prefix assigned to him. So the claim is not supported by any proof and is not credible for a variety of reasons. then to make matters worse the allegation was made it was changed to DB-1 though there is no plausible reaosn why it would be changed to such and in fact there is reliable proof that the suppressor foundby Botflour was changed to this and it was because he found it so that is why it was changed to reflect his initials.
There are cases with demonstrated wrongdoings by police, prosecutors, witnesses and even cases without wrongdoing where innocent people were convicted. There simply is no evidence that is the case here. Some people seem not content that there is a lack of evidence of his innocence or any evidence of wrongdoing and want to invent it.
They look through statements like this for anything they can manipulate for their purposes. Such manipulation will never help an appeal court to free him it will at best convince some members of the public to argue on his behalf that he is innocent but won't work on most.
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Another long drawn-out bag of wind.
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Another long drawn-out bag of wind.
thanks lookout
that will save me from chosing whether I open that post or not ;)