Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on May 31, 2014, 12:22:PM
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It was common sense for Jeremy to enter the main bedroom fully loaded. The facts prove he did this. All eleven shots being fired.
After the eleven shots Neville then got downstairs where a ferorcious battle took place. But how & why did Neville get downstairs ?
Jeremy may have felt eleven bullets would be enough for June & Neville. Giving him time to get downstairs & reload. He thought they would be dead or immobilised. However Neville was badly injured but not dead. Perhaps he managed to get downstairs before Jeremy had reloaded, to try to prevent Jeremy returning upstairs with a loaded rifle.
Sadly Neville ended up with black eyes, a broken nose, a broken jaw, damaged teeth, burn marks & three more bullets.
The other suggestion is Jeremy chased Neville. But where was Neville going ? Where ever it was he would be caught. He certainly would not have time to phone the police. And wouldn't Neville fight for his & everyone else's life upstairs ? Rather than run away.
A bullet shell was found on the stairs. Which suggests Neville was shot on the stairs. However Jeremys supporters have suggested the shell ended up there in error.
Do people believe Jeremy chased Neville or Neville chased Jeremy ?
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As I stated in the past, this is one of those questions that will go unanswered unless Jeremy decides to stop with the lies and provide a complete run down of the murders. That would entail him remembering what actually happened, it appear she has hidden such from his mind, having the desire to be honest, because in addition to being wrong by purging it from his memory he still could lie instead of being fully honest if he did confess, and thus revelaing everything.
I don't have any expectation for this to happen ever.
There is simply no way to know whether Nevill chased him and he fled to try to reload in peace or whether he chased Nevill to prvent Nevill from reaching a weapon, phone or even exiting the house to go look for help.
There is not enough evidence to demonstrate for sure which is the case and I choose not to speculate. The question only matters to the curious human mind it has litle difference on the important facts of the case.
In either case the result was the struggle over the weapon in the kitchen, Nevill being beated unconscious, the killer reloading and firing 4 rounds into his head killing him.
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Jeremy didn't chase anyone----------------because he wasn't there ! No debate !
It probably took him all his time to scratch himself,f let alone do any chasing by the time he got home after supper that night with working 17 hours harvesting.
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Jeremy didn't chase anyone----------------because he wasn't there ! No debate !
It probably took him all his time to scratch himself,f let alone do any chasing by the time he got home after supper that night with working 17 hours harvesting.
You are right you can't debate. Just making a statement that he wasn't there doesn't prove he wasn't or mean he wasn't. The evidence says he was there and you have not dented any of that evidence.
You are like the 9/11 conspiracy theoriests who insist the evidence about how the Twin towers fell is a lie and that it was relaly bombs that took it down. They are wrong that the mechanics cited would not take it down and have no evidence at all of any bombs having been used. They repeat the same nonsense over an dover anyway though intentionally ignoring facts and reality.
The question is do yo ubelieve your own BS or do you know Jeremy is guilty deep down but simply refuse to face it or admit it.
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Were any of Nevilles shots in the back ? He would only turn his back on someone holding a rifle for one reason.
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Were any of Nevilles shots in the back ? He would only turn his back on someone holding a rifle for one reason.
No he was shot 4 times on the left side (profile shots) and the rest the top of his head and upper right side of his head.
There is nothing to estbalish he was shot as he was running away.
There is nothing that offers a clue as to whether he chased his killer to the kitchen or his killer chased him. There is simply no way to ever know short of the killer honestly revealing which is the case.
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Were any of Nevilles shots in the back ? He would only turn his back on someone holding a rifle for one reason.
Go look at the diagram - I put it along with other pictures, in the archive section so that people easily can go look for themselves. Harters made a document and statement´s thread over there too. Feel free.
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Thanks.
It was good that you suggested Neville could have followed Jeremy into the kitchen. I had never thought of that option before.
Having two possible options makes it even more plausible Jeremy was the killer & explains Neville being in the kitchen.
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Thanks.
It was good that you suggested Neville could have followed Jeremy into the kitchen. I had never thought of that option before.
Having two possible options makes it even more plausible Jeremy was the killer & explains Neville being in the kitchen.
I don't see how 2 options makes it more likely. The odds of him doing it don't change based on whether the killer ran from Nevill or Nevill ran from his killer.
Nevill could have chased Sheila or Jeremy. Jeremy or Sheila could have chased Neville. Other evidence speaks to which one it was that he either chased or ran after.
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It is strange that some of Jeremys supporters say there was no kitchen fight. There is a lot of evidence showing there was. Perhaps because it is much less likely Sheila could have overpowered Neville. Injured or not.
Neville was shot upstairs at first. He either was chased downstairs or followed the killer himself.
Either way, once both people were in the kitchen, they were not going to have a cuppa.
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It is strange that some of Jeremys supporters say there was no kitchen fight. There is a lot of evidence showing there was. Perhaps because it is much less likely Sheila could have overpowered Neville. Injured or not.
Neville was shot upstairs at first. He either was chased downstairs or followed by the killer.
Either way once both people were in the kitchen, they were not going to have a cuppa.
I can't THINK why not. The pictures show a table immaculately laid for breakfast.
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It is strange that some of Jeremys supporters say there was no kitchen fight. There is a lot of evidence showing there was. Perhaps because it is much less likely Sheila could have overpowered Neville. Injured or not.
Neville was shot upstairs at first. He either was chased downstairs or followed the killer himself.
Either way, once both people were in the kitchen, they were not going to have a cuppa.
Was it a scuffle or fight at the kitchen sink? Something happened there Adam didn't it. This is the place where NB lost his watch and the light shade above the kitchen sink was smashed. There is also multiple drops of blood on the floor. I say drops because this suggest that the bleeder was stood.
I doubt a big fight occurred there a scuffle maybe. The lack of blood in the kitchen/floor has always bothered me. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Patti,,there was ample blood by the chest of drawers in the kitchen,,but was obviously cleaned up.
Jeremy was told this by EP.
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Hi Patti,,there was ample blood by the chest of drawers in the kitchen,,but was obviously cleaned up.
Jeremy was told this by EP.
Hi Lookout :)
I have never seen it nor have I seen any documents saying there was a pool of blood in near the drawers in the kitchen. I know you have read this in a book, but where that came from I have no idea. Can anyone else shed any light on this.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Lookout :)
I have never seen it nor have I seen any documents saying there was a pool of blood in near the drawers in the kitchen. I know you have read this in a book, but where that came from I have no idea. Can anyone else shed any light on this.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Patti,,I remember reading it in Lomax's book ( which I've lent out,,or I'd tell you the page :-[ )
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It is strange that some of Jeremys supporters say there was no kitchen fight. There is a lot of evidence showing there was. Perhaps because it is much less likely Sheila could have overpowered Neville. Injured or not.
Neville was shot upstairs at first. He either was chased downstairs or followed the killer himself.
Either way, once both people were in the kitchen, they were not going to have a cuppa.
It is not strange when you look at their motive.
What does the scuffle reveal?
1) That the suppressor was on the rifle because only with it attached would it be tall enough to break the ceiling lampshade as they fought over the weapon, have scratched the aga as they fought over the weapon and knocked over other trinkets.
2) That Sheila would have had medium velocity spatter on her body and clothing and would have broken at least one if not more nails and have had some sort of abrasions from handling the weapon in the manner claimed- it was grasped by the killer tightly and bashed into Nevill so hard that his watch broke off and the stock broke not to mention being knocked unconscious.
These are all demolish the pretense they would like of Jerey being the killer. That is why so many fight it tooth and nail and deny the obvious. It is out of necessity to try to pretend their position is tenable not because there is a lack of evidence that it happened.
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Patti,,I remember reading it in Lomax's book ( which I've lent out,,or I'd tell you the page :-[ )
Ah I have found my book so will have a look..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Was it a scuffle or fight at the kitchen sink? Something happened there Adam didn't it. This is the place where NB lost his watch and the light shade above the kitchen sink was smashed. There is also multiple drops of blood on the floor. I say drops because this suggest that the bleeder was stood.
I doubt a big fight occurred there a scuffle maybe. The lack of blood in the kitchen/floor has always bothered me. ;D ;D ;D ;D
There was not much blood leading to the kitchen. He still got there wounded. The notion he was bleeding like a siv and leaving large amounts of blood around is simply not true and based largely on fake things people see on TV. People have unrealistic expectations about wounds.
The evidence established they struggled over the wepaon, the killer got control of the weapon, bludgeoned Nevill's right side with it, he blocked with his right arm hence defensive wounds and the watch being torn off and eventually he was hit in his head repeatedly so hard that the stock broke and he passed out. The killer then had time to load the gun shoot him in the head while he was slumped over and thus his head was easy to target and he was killed.
Beating his head to the point you break the rifle stock is not something minor. He also had black eyes and a broken nose so had been struck in the face at some point either by fists or the rifle. Wielding rifle like that will break nails is someone hads long nails, will cut a hand or leave blisters (especially when the stock broke) and will surely result in back spatter.
This is a tremendous problem for those insisting Sheila did it which is why it is denied. This is one of the reasons that Jeremy apologists have a bad reputation with the public at large. When the obvious is denies it result in not beling trusted period and a lack of credibility.
The claim police caused all the damage is not only not credible but was rejected after a thorough investigation which looked at how police admitted to the things that they did as far as damaging various doors and opening windows and that sort of thing.
The notion Nevill simply walked in the kitchen, slumped over the chair and was shot then subsequently was bashed after he was dead is not credible to try to explain away why there would have been no back spatter is not credible. He was killed in the very position he was found. He could not have been bashed in that position. Who would bash a dead man at all but bother to bash his arms even? He tried to protect himself that is how his arm was so damaged they were defensive wounds.
Passed out or not bashing his head would result in nails breaking and damage while wielding the rifle if one has long nails and is not using gloves. The intensity was sufficient to break the rifle and result in enough damage to his head to knock him out. That is all that is needed to know as far as intensity of this struggle.
The things that supposedly bother you are curious. You expect there to be blood all over the room even though he didn't leave a large trail of blood to the kitchen from the bedroom just a little where he crashed into things like a wall and yet have no wonders about how Sheila could avoid breaking some nails and having back spatter from bludgeoning him with the rifle.
Trying to downplay the intensity doesn't reduce the fact that these things would occur from him being bashed by the rifle to the point the watch was broken off, the stock broke and his head bashed in.
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Ah I have found my book so will have a look..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Oh good,Patti. I think mine will be in Florida as we speak. ;D If I remember rightly,,it's not very far into the book. I could be wrong though. :-[
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Oh good,Patti. I think mine will be in Florida as we speak. ;D If I remember rightly,,it's not very far into the book. I could be wrong though. :-[
Found it and now can't think where I put it. Its not on the book shelf or book cupboard. It drives me mad when I can't remember what I have done with things...Oh,but its normal lol ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hello Patti
maybe the book is in your Library ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hello Patti
maybe the book is in your Library ;D ;D ;D ;D
hahaha Its like WHSmiths here lol ;D ;D ;D ;D
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You are right you can't debate. Just making a statement that he wasn't there doesn't prove he wasn't or mean he wasn't. The evidence says he was there and you have not dented any of that evidence.
You are like the 9/11 conspiracy theoriests who insist the evidence about how the Twin towers fell is a lie and that it was relaly bombs that took it down. They are wrong that the mechanics cited would not take it down and have no evidence at all of any bombs having been used. They repeat the same nonsense over an dover anyway though intentionally ignoring facts and reality.
The question is do yo ubelieve your own BS or do you know Jeremy is guilty deep down but simply refuse to face it or admit it.
Neither can you place him there, only in your wild scenarios. The real question is, Will scipio chase Adam?"
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Neither can you place him there, only in your wild scenarios. The real question is, Will scipio chase Adam?"
What wild scenarios are required to place Jeremy there?
Jeremy should have been asleep but instead phoned Julie and Police to tell them that Sheila was going crazy with a gun.
Sheila can't have killed killed herself and then both put the suppressor away and moved her body flat. Someone else killed Sheila and framed her for the murders. The staging of the scene included things Jeremy admitted to doing like dumping the bullets out in th ekitchen where they were found.
It takes only using half your brain to figure out Jeremy is the one who framed Sheila.
I realize you don't like using your brain and want to pretend the things you say are palusible btu that doesn't make it so.
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There was not much blood leading to the kitchen. He still got there wounded. The notion he was bleeding like a siv and leaving large amounts of blood around is simply not true and based largely on fake things people see on TV. People have unrealistic expectations about wounds.
The evidence established they struggled over the wepaon, the killer got control of the weapon, bludgeoned Nevill's right side with it, he blocked with his right arm hence defensive wounds and the watch being torn off and eventually he was hit in his head repeatedly so hard that the stock broke and he passed out. The killer then had time to load the gun shoot him in the head while he was slumped over and thus his head was easy to target and he was killed.
Beating his head to the point you break the rifle stock is not something minor. He also had black eyes and a broken nose so had been struck in the face at some point either by fists or the rifle. Wielding rifle like that will break nails is someone hads long nails, will cut a hand or leave blisters (especially when the stock broke) and will surely result in back spatter.
This is a tremendous problem for those insisting Sheila did it which is why it is denied. This is one of the reasons that Jeremy apologists have a bad reputation with the public at large. When the obvious is denies it result in not beling trusted period and a lack of credibility.
The claim police caused all the damage is not only not credible but was rejected after a thorough investigation which looked at how police admitted to the things that they did as far as damaging various doors and opening windows and that sort of thing.
The notion Nevill simply walked in the kitchen, slumped over the chair and was shot then subsequently was bashed after he was dead is not credible to try to explain away why there would have been no back spatter is not credible. He was killed in the very position he was found. He could not have been bashed in that position. Who would bash a dead man at all but bother to bash his arms even? He tried to protect himself that is how his arm was so damaged they were defensive wounds.
Passed out or not bashing his head would result in nails breaking and damage while wielding the rifle if one has long nails and is not using gloves. The intensity was sufficient to break the rifle and result in enough damage to his head to knock him out. That is all that is needed to know as far as intensity of this struggle.
The things that supposedly bother you are curious. You expect there to be blood all over the room even though he didn't leave a large trail of blood to the kitchen from the bedroom just a little where he crashed into things like a wall and yet have no wonders about how Sheila could avoid breaking some nails and having back spatter from bludgeoning him with the rifle.
Trying to downplay the intensity doesn't reduce the fact that these things would occur from him being bashed by the rifle to the point the watch was broken off, the stock broke and his head bashed in.
One big guess on your part I believe? But if there wasn't much blood all over the place then that will explain the lack on blood on Sheila's feet I suppose?
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I'd like to have seen the soles of those socks properly too. I noticed that they were surreptitiously placed,,like the Bible,over an area where there was probably a bloodied footprint.
When the pics in the newspapers showed the blood under the soles of Sheilas' feet,,it looked as though it had seeped through some kind of footwear,,because if she'd been bare-footed,,there'd have been a marked difference.
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What wild scenarios are required to place Jeremy there?
Jeremy should have been asleep but instead phoned Julie and Police to tell them that Sheila was going crazy with a gun.
Sheila can't have killed killed herself and then both put the suppressor away and moved her body flat. Someone else killed Sheila and framed her for the murders. The staging of the scene included things Jeremy admitted to doing like dumping the bullets out in th ekitchen where they were found.
It takes only using half your brain to figure out Jeremy is the one who framed Sheila.
I realize you don't like using your brain and want to pretend the things you say are palusible btu that doesn't make it so.
Well you're the expert on that one.
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One big guess on your part I believe? But if there wasn't much blood all over the place then that will explain the lack on blood on Sheila's feet I suppose?
There was not only a sufficient amount of blood on the floor, more significantly there would have been back spatter on the killer from delivering the beeting and it woudl be impossible for Sheila to hold a rifle so hard she bludgeons Nevill that severealy without breaking a nail since they were long.
This is a perfect example of you being biased instead of looking at the evidence objectively.
She also would have had elevated lead levels on her hands, gunshot residue on her hands and clothing, and high velocity back spatter from several of the victims.
More significantly though she was seated when she was shot- blood dripped down her arms and on her gown that would have been IMPOSSIBLE to drip in such manner if she had been lying down when shot. This means she was not only seated but seated against something because otherwise her body would have fallen flat when the bullets hit and thus not bled on her arm and gown in such manner. Her body was then moved to a flat position. It was moved to the flat position shortly after being shot. It was moved soon enough that instead of blood continuing to flow down her body and pooling on her gown, instead it leaked down the side of her neck and pooled on the floor. That pooling reveals the final resting place of her body was indeed where police say they found her and in the condition they found her- lying flat. Someone opened the bible and placed it in the pool of blood that formed after she died. The person repeatedly opened and closed said bible. The blood was dry by the time poice arrived someone else did it.
This proves Sheila can't have killed herself. The suppressor evidence also proves Sheila can't have killed herself. this proves someone framed Sheila.
This evidence and other evidence like the staging of 30 bullets in the kitchen and all Jeremy's claims including his lie about Nevill phoning to say SHeila had the gun and getting the gun to shoot rabbits and telling police Sheila fired all weapons in the house including the murder weapon all establish Jeremy is the one who framed Sheila.
Your claim there is no evidence against Jeremy is absurd. You deny reality at every turn because you don't like the reality which is Jeremy is guilty. You play ever game in the world ot pretend it isn't so but have not put forth anything to discount any of the evidence yo usimply make the irrational declaration there was no evidence. Pretending the evidenc edoesn't exist doesn't refute the evidence and just makes you out to be dishonest. It is the same thing those who insist the places can't have brought down the WOrld Trade Center do. They insist bombs are the only thing that could bring them down without any evidence of bombs being used and ignore all the evidence that establishes the mechanics of how the WTC collapsed.
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Where is the evidence against Jeremy ? Particularly the forensic ?
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You are well aware there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence and curious co incidences against Jeremy. Judges words.
There is also a mountain of forensic evidence showing Sheila did not do it.
If Sheila did not do it....
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Where is the evidence against Jeremy ? Particularly the forensic ?
You know where it is now. In the library.
Have a good evening ladies. And Mat.