Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on April 01, 2014, 08:46:AM
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Three significant events in Julie Mugfords life which occurred within a short period of time, dramatically changed the state of her mind, raising doubts as to whether she was mentally, physically and emotionally fit at the time she came forward to give information to the police, and also when sge testified during the trial?
The three significant traumatic occurrences were:-
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(1) - Confirmation that three generations of Jeremy's family were all dead, except him...
(2) - the ordeal of going along to the mortuary to identify the bodies of the five victims..
(3) - rejection of her by Jeremy...
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(1) - Confirmation that three generations of Jeremy's family were all dead, except him...
(2) - the ordeal of going along to the morzuary to identify the bodies of the five victims..
(3) - rejection of her by Jeremy...
I've never ever thought of that Mike. It could explain a lot of things.
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I've never ever thought of that Mike. It could explain a lot of things.
Hi Grahame,
Yes, it would...
I also found out when I was acting as Jeremy's McKensie man, that Julie suffered with a severe case of pre-menstual tension, and that she was under the doctor and receiving treatment in the form of medication for it. This also needs to be taken into account because there was a history of her behaving nastily and becoming violent toward Jeremy when she became afflicted with the condition. A typical example of this in action was the occasion when Julie smashed a mirror and tried to suffocate Jeremy with a pillow, vowing to kill him so that no-one else could have him...
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I've never ever thought of that Mike. It could explain a lot of things.
I agree Mike/Grahame, she was very young and these were huge trauma's PTSD is a possibility for herself, for Jeremy and for the relatives.
Jeremy could still be suffering from it and the rest if never counselled.
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I agree Mike/Grahame, she was very young and these were huge trauma's PTSD is a possibility for herself, for Jeremy and for the relatives.
Jeremy could still be suffering from it and the rest if never counselled.
Hi maggie,
Some females are affected differently at different stages of the menstraul cycle, and I find it odd that a month into what part of her cycle that Julie was in, that finding out that three generations of Jeremys family had all been killed, except Jeremy, and within days she was at the mortuary identifying all five victims, and that within four weeks Jeremy had rejected her, and she runs off with her mate to the police telling stories about Jeremy being involved in the killings - it was her way of trying to hurt Jeremy as she had done previously, she was trying to put him away so nobody else could have him, history repeating itself...
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JM was certainly full of spite and bitterness,of that there was no doubt,,and I can imagine her feelings also,when Liz Rimmington told her that Jeremy had bedded her too. Your " best friend !". That would have been the last straw fo JM, I would imagine. I know the romance was over,,but why would LM have told of her tryst ? Some friend !
Just about everyone had an axe to grind of one sort or another.
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Hi maggie,
Some females are affected differently at different stages of the menstraul cycle, and I find it odd that a month into what part of her cycle that Julie was in, that finding out that three generations of Jeremys family had all been killed, except Jeremy, and within days she was at the mortuary identifying all five victims, and that within four weeks Jeremy had rejected her, and she runs off with her mate to the police telling stories about Jeremy being involved in the killings - it was her way of trying to hurt Jeremy as she had done previously, she was trying to put him away so nobody else could have him, history repeating itself...
She could have been in a very bad psychological state imo. She was very young and no doubt vulnerable and open to suggestion by EP. They very possibly painted her into a corner. It's very true some of her behaviour ie. The £25,000 and photos but she may by then and even now believe Jeremy to be guilty not because he told her anything but because EP convinced her?
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I would also like to clear up if I may, the claim that Julie went to the police on her own voluntarily - this is not true, she was pressurized to go along by her mate, who went with her and spoke to the police on Julie Mugfords behalf, because Julie became unco-operative at that stage. The truth of the matter was that her mate made the original statement to police recounting to police what she said Julie had told her, what Jeremy had told her. This is why in some police record or other, there is expressed some concern as to why Julie Mugfords confession is written in the third person - it was Mugfords mate, who made the confession to police, not Julie herself...
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In addition to this didn't Julie say that she had suffered abuse from her step-father? And then there was the alleged rape abroad. Neither for which she received any kind of professional help/counselling for I suspect?
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In addition to this didn't Julie say that she had suffered abuse from her step-father? And then there was the alleged rape abroad. Neither for which she received any kind of professional help/counselling for I suspect?
Tyler, there may be a question mark hanging over those allegations. I know someone who knew the family well and when I put this possibility to her, she was appalled, although I realize that it doesn't mean it DIDN'T happen. However, had she been through life experiencing dysfunctional relationships, it would follow that she'd find others OR they'd find her.
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In addition to this didn't Julie say that she had suffered abuse from her step-father? And then there was the alleged rape abroad. Neither for which she received any kind of professional help/counselling for I suspect?
Hi tyler,
Yes, the alleged rape of Mugford by a stranger was something else she tried to blame Jeremy for...
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April,I too have often wondered if the allegations JM made were true. She comes across as an attention seeker/story teller,just like my own mother in fact! Obviously some kind of personality disorder? I have often wondered,is it due to some kind of insecurity? Do people like this tell lies to make themselves appear more interesting or to evoke sympathy perhaps? What kind of personality disorder does this fall under,do you know?
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Jekyll and Hyde ?
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April,I too have often wondered if the allegations JM made were true. She comes across as an attention seeker/story teller,just like my own mother in fact! Obviously some kind of personality disorder? I have often wondered,is it due to some kind of insecurity? Do people like this tell lies to make themselves appear more interesting or to evoke sympathy perhaps? What kind of personality disorder does this fall under,do you know?
Tyler, histrionic is the one which comes immediately to mind, but narcissistic could be in there too. There is certainly something about them needing to be the centre of attention so engineering circumstances which puts them there.
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It appears to be the case, that Julie was a very insecure person, who needed to have support of others, otherwise she could not function normally. When she found out that three generations of Jeremys family had been killed I fear it may have adversely affected her mentally and emotionally. It would have heightened any insecurity she was already dealing with in her life before that. Add to this, her going along to the mortuary to view the bodies of the five victims, it becomes possible to imagine the psychological tension going around inside her mind by that stage. Jeremy them dumps her, she must have been very depressed by then, in need of somebodys company, and her mate copped for it...
Mugford couldn't go to the cops on her own, she had to go along to see the police with her mate. When the trial started she attended in the company of her mother...
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She performed an enormous task on the family's behalf but it certainly put her at the centre of attention. Diana's iconic words come to mind. "After all I've done for this f*****g family." I can quite see how revenge might slot in.
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According to reports, whilst testifying during the trial, Julie broke down sobbing her eyes out, and was barely audible when resoonding to examination in chief, and cross examination. I can picture it now, when her mate took her along to see the police on that first occasion, when her mate did all the talking for her, her mate giving the details of Julies confession to the police written up in the third person. Julie as quiet as a mouse, saying little if anything. The performance she put on at court, the sobbing, the inaudible responses to key questions, a repeat of that first visit to the police station. Just like her mate had spoken to police on Julies behalf on that first occasion, when it came to the time for her to testify, her sobbing, and inability to answer questions confidently, resulted in prosecution counsel, defence counsel, and the trial judge prompting answerd from her, rather than she anwering spontaneously all by herself...
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I have know people who have the ability to turn tears on whenever they've felt the situation demanded. The difference though, is that their voices don't "crack" with the emotion they're supposedly showing.
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(1) - Confirmation that three generations of Jeremy's family were all dead, except him...
(2) - the ordeal of going along to the mortuary to identify the bodies of the five victims..
(3) - rejection of her by Jeremy...
Good points, Mike, those things must have affected her, no doubt. I just think that something went wrong in her mind earlier in life. I say that because of her lack of reaction after identifying the bodies - isn´t that a sign of a person who is used to horrible occurrences and used to hiding their reactions or simply have "flat" emotions because of them?
The abuse and perhaps the rape may be true.
You mentioned that Julie blamed Jeremy for the rape - wasn´t it because he wasn´t there to protect her or something? Julie blamed Jeremy for a lot of things, for instance the cheque fraud, which he had nothing to do with whatsoever. Tried to strangle him....
I have this question: because of what had happened in her life, did Julie hate men and took it out on Jeremy?
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Was this " rape " mentioned in her WS ? ( can't remember ) Or did she tell Stan Jones all her tales of woe ?
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Wasn't JM's father a violent man ? I'm going to have to look up all this,,because depending what Stan Jones had known about her background,,and then Jeremys' " supposed " murder charges,the courts would have put this down as her having " mitigating circumstances",,hence why she was made immune from the theft charges and anything else she'd confessed to,,thus alleviating her past crimes in exchange for being a prime prosecution witness.
The more you cry and whinge about your background,the more sympathy from the courts,etc.
She was the actress,,of that there was no doubt. In fact,positively unhinged at times. I bet Jeremy could tell a fine tale------------except that he isn't like that.
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One minute Julie is a greedy harlot & lier with medical issues.
The next minute she is someone Jeremy has to ring for advice & comfort at 3 in the morning.
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Nothing stopping anyone from having a split personality is there ?
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One minute Julie is a greedy harlot & lier with medical issues.
The next minute she is someone Jeremy has to ring for advice & comfort at 3 in the morning.
Hi Adam,
One minute julie is a conspirator to murder, next minute she is trying to kill Jeremy himself, then she is getting her mate who shagged Jeremy behind Julies back to go to the police station to speak on julies behalf to the effect that jeremy was involved in the killings, and she is implicating a friend of Jeremys as the hitman who actually killed everyone except SHEILA who he got to lay down and shoot herself...
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One minute Julie is a greedy harlot & lier with medical issues.
The next minute she is someone Jeremy has to ring for advice & comfort at 3 in the morning.
What makes you think Jeremy saw her as a greedy harlot with medical issues. It's possible June MAY have.
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There is more chance of Julie Mugford and her mate being the killers, than Jeremy and a hitman...
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One minute Julie is a greedy harlot & lier with medical issues.
The next minute she is someone Jeremy has to ring for advice & comfort at 3 in the morning.
Yes it was June who used the word harlot ( according to AE)- not the posters on here?
And Jeremy was outside the house on his own and he did not know what had happened to his family - who else would he have called ?
I think you are getting confused Adam
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Yes it was June who used the word harlot ( according to AE)- not the posters on here?
And Jeremy was outside the house on his own and he did not know what had happened to his family - who else would he have called ?
I think you are getting confused Adam
Jansus, I feel certain that I read -and I can only think it was Julie who said it- that Jeremy asked her to marry him and she accepted but after a visit to his parents, during which his mother told him it was about time he thought about settling down he returned to Julie and retracted his proposal.
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Myra Hindley, Rose West, Maxine Carr, and Julie. Mugford are all evil...
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Myra Hindley, Rose West, Maxine Carr, and Julie. Mugford are all evil...
I cannot agree Maxine Carr was not in any way involved in the Huntley murders, whatever the tabloids tell us.
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Hello Maggie
I never knew she was not involved as I did not follow the case. Did she not have an idea what he had done or was that just the press again.
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Hello Maggie
I never knew she was not involved as I did not follow the case. Did she not have an idea what he had done or was that just the press again.
She wasn't around when it happened. She gave him an alibi but has always denied she knew anything about what Huntley did. It was the tabloids who turned her into something 'evil'. She made bad choices but I doubt she was guilty of much more. She was given a new identity to keep her safe from the mob who want to kill her and call her a paedophile etc, they are the ones who need locking up imo.. They put her in the same league as the Jamie Bolger killers.
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Maggie thank you for that I seemed to have missed all that probably because I don't watch the news or read papers.
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Another case of love being blind !
I do have the book about that,,but can't bring myself to read it.
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Another case of love being blind !
I do have the book about that,,but can't bring myself to read it.
Are you talking about Soham murders? No cannot read about these things but have read about Maxine Carr because I cannot stand mob rule and hatred.
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Are you talking about Soham murders? No cannot read about these things but have read about Maxine Carr because I cannot stand mob rule and hatred.
Yes,Maggie.The book was in a bargain box at an outside fair where there were 3 for £1 and you took pot luck. The other two books are right up my street,Nursing in the Fifties ( which is what took my eye ) and the other one is about Nuns.
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lookout your post made me laugh you could have finished up with porn ;D ;D ;D
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lookout your post made me laugh you could have finished up with porn ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Never thought of that,Susan. Too busy rummaging.
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lookout nothing like a good rummage to make a gal's day ;D ;D ;D