Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Droosie on March 04, 2014, 03:50:PM
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Just found this.....seems in 2011 Mick Gradwell was suggesting that there should be an examination of the remaining evidence. Certainly in this text he does not seem to suggest that the case against Jeremy is "cut and dried", rather that it seems to lean towards Jeremy but it is a "close call". In fact he doesn't sound certain at all. Interesting anyhow...it comes from this link:
http://www.lep.co.uk/columnists/which-adopted-child-shot-farmhouse-family-1-3062813
I have cut and pasted the main text.
Is Jeremy Bamber the victim of a miscarriage of justice?
Just before Christmas the Guardian newspaper asked me to review ‘new’ evidence in one of this country’s most violent and horrific murder cases. It took place at an Essex farmhouse in 1985 and involved the murder of husband and wife Neville and June Bamber, their adopted daughter Sheila Caffell and her six-year-old twin boys Daniel and Nicholas.
Police initially suspected that Sheila Caffell, who had a history of mental illness, had gone berserk with a rifle, killing her family and then herself. The scene had the appearance of a straightforward case of murder/suicide and the police carried out a very quick and shoddy investigation.
It wasn’t until relatives found a blood and paint-stained silencer in the farmhouse and when other inconsistencies arose, that a new police investigation team focused attention on Jeremy Bamber, the adopted son of June and Neville. In 1986, Bamber was convicted of the murders by a 10-2 majority verdict and was sentenced to life. He has always protested his innocence.
The Criminal Cases Review Commission is considering the ‘new’ evidence and will announce whether they are going to refer the case to the Court of Appeal in about a week’s time.
In my view, many of the points being raised by the defence are erroneous. But if the new photographic expert’s evidence is correct, it does appear the scene was re-staged during the initial investigation and crucial scratch marks above a cooker may not have been made at the time of the incident.
Even if this is the case, it does not mean that Jeremy Bamber did not commit the murders. It means the trial jury was not provided with accurate evidence, which may result in the need for a re-trial. Unfortunately, Essex police accidentally destroyed a large number of exhibits years ago, which further complicates matters.
It is clear that only Sheila Caffell or Jeremy Bamber could have committed the murders. When I look at all the evidence, Jeremy Bamber remains the most likely suspect. Having said that, it is a close call and I can see why there is an increasing clamour for Bamber to be released.
I think the case would benefit from a new forensic examination of the remaining exhibits and photographs - particularly in relation to the analysis of the patterns of blood-splattering, which could provide additional and useful evidence.
What I find most frustrating is that, had modern DNA techniques and itemised billing for telephone calls been available in 1985, many of the doubts about this troubling case would have been laid to rest a long time ago.
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no it does not sound like hes convinced of guilt.
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If I remember rightly,,it was Mick Gradwell,,who,,when asked about the investigation,,,pinched his nose and uttered words to the effect that it was indeed a poorly done investigation. He may have been referring to the near 30 officers who trampled through the farmhouse to examine the scene.
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So what was Adam on about then?
This does also seem to be an odd conclusion - if the evidence was staged then surely the question would be WHY?
If the evidence of the scratch on the mantle was inaccurate then you would have to ask WHY
If there is any doubt and there is anyway of answering those vital questions then surely the question should be why not?
He is admitting there is doubt - but has a very funny way of presenting his argument IMO
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my guess is that adam is doing with gradwell what he did with roger Wilkes.
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ive heard bad things about this guy though im not certan how true they are.
http://ricosorda.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/will-mick-gradwell-turn-up-to-committee.html
http://ricosorda.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/deptsupt-mick-gradwell-secret.html
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my guess is that adam is doing with gradwell what he did with roger Wilkes.
NUGS!!!!!! NEVER with Gradwell AND with Wilkes!!!!!!!! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Who (and what) is Mick Gradwell?
He really has his doubts. - with good reason! More people should have doubts about this shoddily investigated case.
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NUGS!!!!!! NEVER with Gradwell AND with Wilkes!!!!!!!! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
talking up the mans credentials and then attributing words to him that he never said
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Here he says 'Looking at the overall circumstances I feel it is a safe conviction and that Jeremy Bamber in cold blooded and calculated way killed his family. The evidence does point that way quite significantly'.
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talking up the mans credentials and then attributing words to him that he never said
Ohhh! Is THAT what you meant? Well, it figures :D :D :D
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The spectator called the Tonight programme a bit of a damp squid. They were right.
It came out just before the CCRC judgement. The usual pro & anti Jeremy people wheeled out. Nothing new of any substance.
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I started the thread as I didn't know much about this man, so did an internet search and found the article above.
He seems to think Jeremy is guilty based upon the available evidence.....or that it points more probably to Jeremy. It was interesting to read some of his other comments though that actually he really isn't sure and more importantly can see why people feel Jeremy to be innocent.
I just thought it was interesting rather than anything as I had always thought he suggested the conviction was safe. The above article seems to suggest not ... it was written three years ago though.
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I disagree with the itemised phone billing claim.
Jeremy could have rang his cottage from WHF,then just picked up the reciever when arriving back.
He probably thought it was too risky ringing the police from WHF & pretending to be Neville. Which is why he told the police Neville liked to keep things private.
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I started the thread as I didn't know much about this man, so did an internet search and found the article above.
He seems to think Jeremy is guilty based upon the available evidence.....or that it points more probably to Jeremy. It was interesting to read some of his other comments though that actually he really isn't sure and more importantly can see why people feel Jeremy to be innocent.
I just thought it was interesting rather than anything as I had always thought he suggested the conviction was safe. The above article seems to suggest not ... it was written three years ago though.
The Tonight programme was in March 2012.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Here he says 'Looking at the overall circumstances I feel it is a safe conviction and that Jeremy Bamber in cold blooded and calculated way killed his family. The evidence does point that way quite significantly'.
seems hes said a lot of diffrent things to a lot of diffrent people he seems to have done much the same in jersey.
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seems hes said a lot of diffrent things to a lot of diffrent people he seems to have done much the same in jersey.
A bit of a flip-flopper.
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A bit of a flip-flopper.
Sounds as if he's not 100% certain either way.
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The Tonight programme was in March 2012.
Quite some time ago then.
Has he commented since then about the case?
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I think his nose is stuck into solving a cold case at present,,joining the Lancashire constabulary. That's the last I heard because he was on my local news at the time. I'll have to look it up.
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proof beyond reasonable doubt is I think the expected requirement for guilt.
wilf
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I disagree with the itemised phone billing claim.
Jeremy could have rang his cottage from WHF,then just picked up the reciever when arriving back.
He probably thought it was too risky ringing the police from WHF & pretending to be Neville. Which is why he told the police Neville liked to keep things private.
could you in 1985 leave the phone ringing for the time it takes to get from WHF to Goldhanger? I thought it would cut out after a couple of units (a few mins)
While we are talking phone calls if one log is a copy of the other with mistakes how come the phone numbers are recorded correctly but not both shown on both logs I reason that to correctly report a phone number you would have to first write it down so where is the log with the details or if its on a jotter why and where
wilf?
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seems in the jersey child abuse case gradwell was telling david rose one thing and the victims something rather diffrent.
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seems in the jersey child abuse case gradwell was telling david rose one thing and the victims something rather diffrent.
yes definitely a strange character. Not one I would be quoting personally
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seems in the jersey child abuse case gradwell was telling david rose one thing and the victims something rather diffrent.
That hurts his credibility.
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yes definitely a strange character. Not one I would be quoting personally
i wouldn't ether but then ive done some proper research on him rather than just looking at his own website.
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I like the way he says in the article that the police "accidentally" destroyed the evidence. Hardly! They had specifically been told not too and then just as DNA testing was advancing,the evidential items were destroyed! By none other than Special Branch!
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how can you acedently destroy evidence acedently lose it yes but destroy i think not.
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I like the way he says in the article that the police "accidentally" destroyed the evidence. Hardly! They had specifically been told not too and then just as DNA testing was advancing,the evidential items were destroyed! By none other than Special Branch!
Noticed that too and jumped in my chair - there was nothing "accidental" about it. In my mind it was a big crime, and the people responsible should be held accountable.
Destroying evidence in a case that is still being appealed is nothing less than a crime - especially when they had been told not to.
HOW COME no one to this day was held accountable? Shouldn´t there at least be a hearing to clarify the circumstances?
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and they wouldn't of done that unless they had something to hide.
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how can you acedently destroy evidence acedently lose it yes but destroy i think not.
Given the track record of our supposed great police service I would offer its easily done after all the Americans dropped 2 nuclear bombs on a town by accident the first one with all 4 fail safes on the second with 1 fail safe on .
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a bit funny they destroyed agter they had been told not to though isnt it.
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and they wouldn't of done that unless they had something to hide.
That is the natural conclusion. This is so rotten that I have no words.
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and they wouldn't of done that unless they had something to hide.
Putting them on the stand as with any other suspect and following Nug's line of thought, I suggest that they would most emphatically NOT be allowed to get away with the "Ooops, look what we accidentally did" explanation. It appears there may be one set of laws for them and one for us.
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Forgive me if I've got this wrong. I claim it's my age. ::) But did this Mick Gradwell scupper the investigation into the Jersy child abuse? Just to be clear.
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Forgive me if I've got this wrong. I claim it's my age. ::) But did this Mick Gradwell scupper the investigation into the Jersy child abuse? Just to be clear.
Hi Grahame,,he allegedly leaked information to the press in this country,from Jersey regarding the child scandals. But like all good cops,,denied having done so.
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Hi Grahame,,he allegedly leaked information to the press in this country,from Jersey regarding the child scandals. But like all good cops,,denied having done so.
So what's happening about the investication in Jersey then? Are they still pusuing or suspending these allegations of child abuse?
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Apologies for being long-winded in answering,,but have been hanging washing out ;D
Grahame,,to be honest,,I don't know where they are up to with this case. I've only read snippets about it in the past,as it came to light about 7 or 8 years ago,I think. The case itself was led by Len Harper,I think,Superintendent.,and the excommunicated Gradwell.
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Hi Grahame,,he allegedly leaked information to the press in this country,from Jersey regarding the child scandals. But like all good cops,,denied having done so.
mind you lenny harper leaked information to the notw as well.
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mind you lenny harper leaked information to the notw as well.
Yes,nugs,you're right. He also told the press that human remains had been found,,and what was it ? A coconut,,which had first been described as a childs' skull >? There was another top notch cop,Power,his name is/was,,and he was suspended for some reason. Then Power retired. This is when Gradwell stepped in and said that the grounds of the place didn't warrant investigation by excavating ? After remains,etc had been found,,then witnesses from the 70's came forward with their stories.
Gradwell had gone against what the Jersey police were saying in that he'd reckoned that no murders had been committed.That's why he was against excavating. He'd disagreed the way Harper had done the investigation.
There was that much arguing,etc,,it's a wonder any investigating got done.
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im starting to qustion weather harpers motives for doing that were as pure as he claimed.
mind you what was gradwell doing leaking stuff to the mail i have to question is motives as well.
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im starting to qustion weather harpers motives for doing that were as pure as he claimed.
mind you what was gradwell doing leaking stuff to the mail i have to question is motives as well.
Yes indeed,nugs. I remember a few years ago about there being a big splash about Harpers intentions.
It was a case of" do as I say,and not as I do ",with the pair of them,I think. Or don't let the right hand know what the left hand's doing. It had remained a mystery why Power had been suspended,,but he remained on full pay until his retirement. A lot of politics were involved.I wonder why ?
Strange how this was yet another case that was up for criticism by Gradwell. I believe the investigation closed in 2010.
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well if harpers motive for leaking were as pure as he cliamed you would think hed leak to the gaurdion or the telegraph not notw.
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well if harpers motive for leaking were as pure as he cliamed you would think hed leak to the gaurdion or the telegraph not notw.
NOTW seemed favourite for rogues,nugs. JM did well out of them. The Guardian did write quite a bit about the case/investigation. Harper went to them,didn't he ?
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im not sure on that one.
but i do know he was having dinner with lucy patten from the notw who has since been charged with various crimes.
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As the whole of the government in Jersey are Masons, do you think Mick Gradwell is a Mason as well?
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well thers no real of establishing wether he is or isnt so i think thats probably a pointless line of inquiry.
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ive heard bad things about this guy though im not certan how true they are.
http://ricosorda.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/will-mick-gradwell-turn-up-to-committee.html
http://ricosorda.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/deptsupt-mick-gradwell-secret.html
Did you spot ex COLP yes that is right the guys that looked into the case back in early 1990s the same report that is now under pii
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no actully i missed that thanks for pointing it out.
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I think on re-reading the article that MG is more or less satisfied that the evidence points to the guilty verdict being the corrwct one. I feel he is also trying the understand and see the point of view of those who are not convinced by the evidence.
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Jeremy could have rung his cottage from WHF, then just picked up the receiver when arriving back.
He couldn't have done that, as he wouldn't then have been able to get a dial tone in order to call the police.
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He couldn't have done that, as he wouldn't then have been able to get a dial tone in order to call the police.
Thought he would be able to do this after two minutes.
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I don't think such an automated cut-off was introduced with itemized billing, only years later.
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Following on from my recent post of people contacted to assist Jeremy, but cause more harm than good. Mike Gradwell perhaps falls into this category.
He popped up in a couple of Youtube videos. Not sure if Bamber's team requested this. He criticised the police handling of the crime, but also said it was a 'safe conviction'.
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I think on re-reading the article that MG is more or less satisfied that the evidence points to the guilty verdict being the corrwct one. I feel he is also trying the understand and see the point of view of those who are not convinced by the evidence.
This is an old thread that seemed to have come to a natural confusion - why on earth would someone be "bumping up old threads " that are not currently being discussed? very STRANGE
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Mike Gradwell's opinion must be respected as he was very senior in the police force.
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I'll be giving this thread a miss as I can't stand the man !
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Following on from my recent post of people contacted to assist Jeremy, but cause more harm than good. Mike Gradwell perhaps falls into this category.
He popped up in a couple of Youtube videos. Not sure if Bamber's team requested this. He criticised the police handling of the crime, but also said it was a 'safe conviction'.
he rather contradicted himself i thought.