Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: killingeve on October 23, 2013, 12:48:PM
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http://www.lep.co.uk/columnists/which-adopted-child-shot-farmhouse-family-1-3062813
Firstly, SC and JB were not children at the time of the murders.
Secondly, Mick Gradwell appears to think that adoption is a feature hence the above title and his references to the "adopted daughter Sheila Caffell" and "the adopted son of June and Neville". And yet we hear nothing about:
- The psychology of adoption
-June's mental illness caused by her decision to adopt SC and its likely effect on SC:
- attachment disorder
- neglect on brain development
- Adoption reunions
All we get is:
"a new forensic examination of the remaining exhibits and photographs".
And yet despite his ignorance of the above he claims "When I look at all the evidence, Jeremy Bamber remains the most likely suspect".
CALLING MICK GRADWELL
What evidence?
Do you realise that you will not find a modern day psychiatrist or psychologist in the world that would find JB guilty over SC given SC's early experiences at the start of her life: abrupt and repeat changes in primary caregivers, likely neglect as a result of June's mental illness and an adoption reunion with her birth mother weeks before the murders?
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I like the way he says that vital evidence was accidentally destroyed by police. I would substitute the word "accidentally" with "conveniently" personally.
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Hello NN
I love you even though you are an annoying attention-whore.
What about this? A book written by an adoptive mother whose adopted son committed suicide. David Brodzinsky a psychologist specialising in adoption gives his view:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=X2tuqcVHGUwC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=David+brodinsky&source=bl&ots=JQemDKEuk5&sig=zV0Jz_KXvxQRtvLoo-I_uY0lpcU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qRxnUu2FNora0QXzj4CIAw&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAg
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Hello N/N think you are being a tad hard on yourself. Nuns are not whores ;D
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Hello N/N think you are being a tad hard on yourself. Nuns are not whores ;D
Hi Susan
In their dreams and not even the wildest ones ;)
The annoying attention-whore is based on Grahame's horoscope :). Technically I'm a moody jerk but I'm on the cusp and I think annoying attention whore is more apt and a better description of self :)
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Hello N/N you are no different than the rest of us as long as we do not all have bad moods on the same day we will be sound. By the way what is cusp :'(
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http://www.lep.co.uk/columnists/which-adopted-child-shot-farmhouse-family-1-3062813
Firstly, SC and JB were not children at the time of the murders.
Secondly, Mick Gradwell appears to think that adoption is a feature hence the above title and his references to the "adopted daughter Sheila Caffell" and "the adopted son of June and Neville". And yet we hear nothing about:
- The psychology of adoption
-June's mental illness caused by her decision to adopt SC and its likely effect on SC:
- attachment disorder
- neglect on brain development
- Adoption reunions
All we get is:
"a new forensic examination of the remaining exhibits and photographs".
And yet despite his ignorance of the above he claims "When I look at all the evidence, Jeremy Bamber remains the most likely suspect".
CALLING MICK GRADWELL
What evidence?
Do you realise that you will not find a modern day psychiatrist or psychologist in the world that would find JB guilty over SC given SC's early experiences at the start of her life: abrupt and repeat changes in primary caregivers, likely neglect as a result of June's mental illness and an adoption reunion with her birth mother weeks before the murders?
Interesting points NN. I also find it interesting that his opinion regarding the destruction of evidence is 'accidental'. I think this point is worth exploring further.
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It's very wrong to come to the conclusion that," Jeremy Bamber remains to be the likely suspect ".
Just because he was the only man standing.
There were three troubled adults in that farmhouse that evening.
1) Sheila who we know of.
2) June who was also fragile,mentally.
3) Neville had some issues which he'd mentioned to Barbara Wilson,,but didn't go into detail.
Just wondering.When Neville was punched,which resulted in a black eye. Was his " attacker " injured ?.
Who also hit June which resulted in a black eye.?
A most despicable act against elderly persons. Physical abuse at its worst.
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Who is 'Mike Gradwell' and why would anyone be asking him to review evidence??
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Who is 'Mike Gradwell' and why would anyone be asking him to review evidence??
Morning Lady in Red
When I first pulled up the article there was a picture of him (not a looker) but by the time I posted it it had disappeared! He's an ex cop and presented on the ITV docu last year.
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Lady in Red just 4 u from NN x
See 22.50 in. He's Northern what do you expect ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo
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Lady in Red just 4 u from NN x
See 22.50 in. He's Northern what do you expect ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo
Thanks for that NN, yes, I remember him now - bloody northerners!! ;D ;D
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Who is 'Mike Gradwell' and why would anyone be asking him to review evidence??
He features in The Guardian 2010 video. He appears to be an 'independent' consultant who reviews police work. His findings are presented to Chris Bews, whose response is akin to 'just coz mistakes were made doesn't mean it wasn't him who done it'.
Gradwell's input on the ITV documentary was unfortunate. From what I remember, he was allowed to say that the evidence pointed to Jeremy Bamber committed the murders in a cold and calculating manner, near the end the program.
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He features in The Guardian 2010 video. He appears to be an 'independent' consultant who reviews police work. His findings are presented to Chris Bews, whose response is akin to 'just coz mistakes were made doesn't mean it wasn't him who done it'.
Gradwell's input on the ITV documentary was unfortunate. From what I remember, he was allowed to say that the evidence pointed to Jeremy Bamber committed the murders in a cold and calculating manner, near the end the program.
This one: That's Mike Teskowski narrating isn't it?
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/video/2011/jan/30/jeremy-bamber-new-evidence-video
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Hello N/N you are no different than the rest of us as long as we do not all have bad moods on the same day we will be sound. By the way what is cusp :'(
Hi Susan
I could do a Cruella like you did with me when I asked about St Kilda and you told me to get on my bike and Google ;D ;D ;D but since I'm a nice Naughty Nun, the word cusp has many meanings but I believe in terms of astrology it means that the moon is in a transitional phase and puts a birth date between falling into different points on the astrological chart. Its all baloney imo but I'm between Gemini and Cancer and I would say annoying attention whore is a better description of myself than moody jerk :)
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What about this one by Bob Miller. I don't wish to sound rude but he really doesn't sound like the brightest cookie in the tin and it's quite frightening to think that someone like him can have a hand in influencing the direction of a police investigation especially when a man's liberty is at stake :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OlvzCVrmc
See 15 and 46 mins in poster pals :)
Interestingly AH just before BM @ 46 goes as far as saying he believes JB is innocent. I believe JB to be innocent but if I was acting in a semi-prof capacity I would probably stick with his conviction being unsafe.
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This one: That's Mike Teskowski narrating isn't it?
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/video/2011/jan/30/jeremy-bamber-new-evidence-video
I think the narrator is Guardian journalist and supporter, Eric Allison. Apologies Eric if I have misspelled your name.
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I think the narrator is Guardian journalist and supporter, Eric Allison. Apologies Eric if I have misspelled your name.
Aaaah okay, it sounds exactly the same as Mike. :-\
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I think the narrator is Guardian journalist and supporter, Eric Allison. Apologies Eric if I have misspelled your name.
You are right Roch, it is Eric Allison. ;D ;D
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You are right Roch, it is Eric Allison. ;D ;D
This Eric Allison:
www.theguardian.com/profile/ericallison
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This Eric Allison:
www.theguardian.com/profile/ericallison
Yes NoBits that is the one. ;) ;)
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Yes NoBits that is the one. ;) ;)
Yeah I think Rochy is right, it doesn't look anything like Mike. :-\
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Yeah I think Rochy is right, it doesn't look anything like Mike. :-\
it ain't Mike NoBits, it's Eric ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Hello N/N thank you for explaining the meaning of the word cusp learning all the time. Wow if I told you to get on your bike that was very rude of me but recall telling you I had typed a long post about St Kilda and the forum sent it into orbit and I was too tired to type it again. I know you are a nice Nun and would never be cruel to me.
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it ain't Mike NoBits, it's Eric ;) ;) ;) ;)
Oh. :-[ :D
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Yeah I think Rochy is right, it doesn't look anything like Mike. :-\
I assumed it was Mike until I discovered it was Eric. Mr. Allison's voice is certainly distinctive and rasping.
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I assumed it was Mike until I discovered it was Eric. Mr. Allison's voice is certaintiesnly distinctive and rasping.
Not just me then, that is a relief. :)
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No lights at the back of the house. Myall sees some kind of movement in the window top right....Even if Bew's is mistakenly saying that the back of the house was front and there were no lights on....then who put the main bedroom light on after they did the recci of the house?????????????
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No lights at the back of the house. Myall sees some kind of movement in the window top right....Even if Bew's is mistakenly saying that the back of the house was front and there were no lights on....then who put the main bedroom light on after they did the recci of the house?????????????
The Easter bunny? ???
Or nobody. :-\
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The Easter bunny? ???
Or nobody. :-\
Hello Dear :)
Its not beyond the realms of possibility that the light was switched on after? Mildenhall says the main bedroom light was on....and he is very precise with what he describes from the red/white side... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hey I like your little devil......Always thought you had horns... ;)
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And teeth like a witch-doctors necklace. ;D ;D
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And teeth like a witch-doctors necklace. ;D ;D
And the words daily pinta embedded into the souls of his feet.....Did I tell you they are like ice lololol ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hello Dear :)
Its not beyond the realms of possibility that the light was switched on after? Mildenhall says the main bedroom light was on....and he is very precise with what he describes from the red/white side... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hey I like your little devil......Always thought you had horns... ;)
Not possible as Jeremy had already murdered everybody in the house, it is more likely that one of the account givers are simply mistaken.
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Not possible as Jeremy had already murdered everybody in the house, it is more likely that one of the account givers are simply mistaken.
But what if he was right and the light had been put on? The light was on when the photo's were taken. Why would anyone turn the light on at 7:45 on a summers morning? ;)
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But what if he was right and the light had been put on? The light was on when the photo's were taken. Why would anyone turn the light on at 7:45 on a summers morning? ;)
Murdered people can't reach the light switches I'm afraid. Doesn't work.
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Murdered people can't reach the light switches I'm afraid. Doesn't work.
They can't walk around inside either, while " the murderer " is outside waiting with the police.
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Murdered people can't reach the light switches I'm afraid. Doesn't work.
Someone put it on! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Someone put it on! ;D ;D ;D ;D
But not whilst the only occupants of the house were all dead. Dead people can't turn lights on, that is a fact.
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I'm nearly there. :)
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But not whilst the only occupants of the house were all dead. Dead people can't turn lights on, that is a fact.
According to Mildenhall the light was on. He was in a prime position to see it..
I'd like to see all the raid teams statements....especially Collin's.. :) :) :) :)
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According to Mildenhall the light was on. He was in a prime position to see it..
I'd like to see all the raid teams statements....especially Collin's.. :) :) :) :)
I've asked for it about a hundred times, I think it contains information that Mike doesn't want people to see.
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I've asked for it about a hundred times, I think it contains information that Mike doesn't want people to see.
Perhaps he hasn't got Hartley.... :-\
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Perhaps he hasn't got Hartley.... :-\
I believe he has. ;)
But more importantly 'HOORAY' I've done it.
I shall now disappear again until the new year, which should allow folk to get past the 'good riddance' stage and into 'we miss No-Bits' stage. :)
Catch ya later. 8)
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I believe he has. ;)
But more importantly 'HOORAY' I've done it.
I shall now disappear again until the new year, which should allow folk to get past the 'good riddance' stage and into 'we miss No-Bits' stage. :)
Catch ya later. 8)
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Hartley. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I believe he has. ;)
But more importantly 'HOORAY' I've done it.
I shall now disappear again until the new year, which should allow folk to get past the 'good riddance' stage and into 'we miss No-Bits' stage. :)
Catch ya later. 8)
Awwww No-Bits don't leave please. I've never said either. I learnt loads from you and Bridget when I first joined the forum. Well if you have to leave best wishes and see you in the New Year. NN x :)
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I believe he has. ;)
But more importantly 'HOORAY' I've done it.
I shall now disappear again until the new year, which should allow folk to get past the 'good riddance' stage and into 'we miss No-Bits' stage. :)
Catch ya later. 8)
Come back here at once >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Hartley...................................... :'(
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Hello N/N thank you for explaining the meaning of the word cusp learning all the time. Wow if I told you to get on your bike that was very rude of me but recall telling you I had typed a long post about St Kilda and the forum sent it into orbit and I was too tired to type it again. I know you are a nice Nun and would never be cruel to me.
Ummm yes interesting Susan how you remember some things but not others :-\ :-\ :-\ I guess it depends on how you rate them in terms of importance :-\ :-\ :-\ Yes stick with me and you will learn much ;) I'm a font of knowledge ;)
No never cruel unless you're a moth or other flying insect :)
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Hello NN
I love you even though you are an annoying attention-whore.
What about this? A book written by an adoptive mother whose adopted son committed suicide. David Brodzinsky a psychologist specialising in adoption gives his view:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=X2tuqcVHGUwC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=David+brodinsky&source=bl&ots=JQemDKEuk5&sig=zV0Jz_KXvxQRtvLoo-I_uY0lpcU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qRxnUu2FNora0QXzj4CIAw&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAg
Andrew felt a bitterness absent in Sheila. It was Sheila who chose to find her birth mother and she felt a sense of completeness after they met. She showed an inner resilience even when faced with daunting adversity and had worked through her anger with June by the time of her death. This is not to deny that the figures are heartbreaking: female adoptees are four times more likely to commit suicide and boys three times more likely than a random adolescent. The problems inside no doubt build up over time to reveal a further shocking statistic: adoptees are fifteen times more likely to kill their parents than children living with their biological parents.
So had Jeremy's problems accrued.A Jeremy so vulnerable from his Gresham’s days that he couldn’t bear the thought of eight wasted years-the whole raison d’être of him being there was that he was special and in the monied classes being usurped by two boys who had now changed rooms and were sleeping in the bedroom on whose door was indelibly marked the sign “Jeremy’s Room”,whilst he himself had been pushed out to a labourer’s cottage for which he was made to feel beholden to his parents,that dwelling being a compromise arrangement between Jeremy agreeing to work at the Farm in return for leading his own social life and no longer under the parental authority which had been exercised over him all those years.
Those letters: a symptom of this insidious helplessness gushing forth to any individual willing to correspond to a convicted mass murderer,letters which may have been written similarly to Nevill and June in the early days as Jeremy endured yet another humdrum history lesson,letters which if only his parents had answered there might just have been a chance this whole story could have been averted:a ray of hope once again disappeared behind the clouds of June’s depression and Nevill’s work ethic as Jeremy yet again resigned himself to spend another uneventful Sunday in that bleak Norfolk outpost. No doubt many a disgruntled public schoolboy had wished the same fate on his school as occurred with the great fire in 1708 which destroyed Holt within the space of three hours,and which lay at the heart of Jeremy’s original plans for White House Farm at Christmas 1984,yet there would be no peace and goodwill to men as Jeremy’s evil plan was only postponed to a time when the Farm would be fully occupied at the height of Summer and the conflagration scheme shelved in favour of an equally horrific plan which even Jeremy himself had initially baulked at,yet which satisfied his desire for revenge as he honed his shooting skills gained whilst the form swots busied themselves with their exam preparation. Public school had its compensations after all as Jeremy pondered the future unshackled by the burden of expectation which had lain upon him for so long.
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Andrew felt a bitterness absent in Sheila. It was Sheila who chose to find her birth mother and she felt a sense of completeness after they met. She showed an inner resilience even when faced with daunting adversity and had worked through her anger with June by the time of her death. This is not to deny that the figures are heartbreaking: female adoptees are four times more likely to commit suicide and boys three times more likely than a random adolescent. The problems inside no doubt build up over time to reveal a further shocking statistic: adoptees are fifteen times more likely to kill their parents than children living with their biological parents.
So had Jeremy's problems accrued.A Jeremy so vulnerable from his Gresham’s days that he couldn’t bear the thought of eight wasted years-the whole raison d’être of him being there was that he was special and in the monied classes being usurped by two boys who had now changed rooms and were sleeping in the bedroom on whose door was indelibly marked the sign “Jeremy’s Room”,whilst he himself had been pushed out to a labourer’s cottage for which he was made to feel beholden to his parents,that dwelling being a compromise arrangement between Jeremy agreeing to work at the Farm in return for leading his own social life and no longer under the parental authority which had been exercised over him all those years.
Those letters: a symptom of this insidious helplessness gushing forth to any individual willing to correspond to a convicted mass murderer,letters which may have been written similarly to Nevill and June in the early days as Jeremy endured yet another humdrum history lesson,letters which if only his parents had answered there might just have been a chance this whole story could have been averted:a ray of hope once again disappeared behind the clouds of June’s depression and Nevill’s work ethic as Jeremy yet again resigned himself to spend another uneventful Sunday in that bleak Norfolk outpost. No doubt many a disgruntled public schoolboy had wished the same fate on his school as occurred with the great fire in 1708 which destroyed Holt within the space of three hours,and which lay at the heart of Jeremy’s original plans for White House Farm at Christmas 1984,yet there would be no peace and goodwill to men as Jeremy’s evil plan was only postponed to a time when the Farm would be fully occupied at the height of Summer and the conflagration scheme shelved in favour of an equally horrific plan which even Jeremy himself had initially baulked at,yet which satisfied his desire for revenge as he honed his shooting skills gained whilst the form swats busied themselves with their exam preparation. Public school had its compensations after all as Jeremy pondered the future unshackled by the burden of expectation which had lain upon him for so long.
Steve, I wonder if you could furnish us with the stats of how many young men of Jeremy's age had to be dragged, screaming from their parental home into their OWN home, where, for possibly the first time in their lives they may enjoy total privacy and experience a freedom ,not previously enjoyed, to invite and "entertain" friends of their choosing. Even MORE, they haven't had to lay out a penny to rent or purchase said home. You may see it as being "pushed out." I see it as not being able to get there fast enough.
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Andrew felt a bitterness absent in Sheila. It was Sheila who chose to find her birth mother and she felt a sense of completeness after they met. She showed an inner resilience even when faced with daunting adversity and had worked through her anger with June by the time of her death. This is not to deny that the figures are heartbreaking: female adoptees are four times more likely to commit suicide and boys three times more likely than a random adolescent. The problems inside no doubt build up over time to reveal a further shocking statistic: adoptees are fifteen times more likely to kill their parents than children living with their biological parents.
So had Jeremy's problems accrued.A Jeremy so vulnerable from his Gresham’s days that he couldn’t bear the thought of eight wasted years-the whole raison d’être of him being there was that he was special and in the monied classes being usurped by two boys who had now changed rooms and were sleeping in the bedroom on whose door was indelibly marked the sign “Jeremy’s Room”,whilst he himself had been pushed out to a labourer’s cottage for which he was made to feel beholden to his parents,that dwelling being a compromise arrangement between Jeremy agreeing to work at the Farm in return for leading his own social life and no longer under the parental authority which had been exercised over him all those years.
Those letters: a symptom of this insidious helplessness gushing forth to any individual willing to correspond to a convicted mass murderer,letters which may have been written similarly to Nevill and June in the early days as Jeremy endured yet another humdrum history lesson,letters which if only his parents had answered there might just have been a chance this whole story could have been averted:a ray of hope once again disappeared behind the clouds of June’s depression and Nevill’s work ethic as Jeremy yet again resigned himself to spend another uneventful Sunday in that bleak Norfolk outpost. No doubt many a disgruntled public schoolboy had wished the same fate on his school as occurred with the great fire in 1708 which destroyed Holt within the space of three hours,and which lay at the heart of Jeremy’s original plans for White House Farm at Christmas 1984,yet there would be no peace and goodwill to men as Jeremy’s evil plan was only postponed to a time when the Farm would be fully occupied at the height of Summer and the conflagration scheme shelved in favour of an equally horrific plan which even Jeremy himself had initially baulked at,yet which satisfied his desire for revenge as he honed his shooting skills gained whilst the form swots busied themselves with their exam preparation. Public school had its compensations after all as Jeremy pondered the future unshackled by the burden of expectation which had lain upon him for so long.
Hi Steve, just curious, do you know how many of the adoptees who commit suicide are adopted as babies? Many adoptions of toddlers or older children are placed as fostering with a view to adoption. These children are often appallingly damaged by their experience pre adoption, very often by one or both of their natural parents, there are dreadful stories. Unfortunately, many such children just cannot overcome the damage they have suffered in their most vulnerable years which often causes them to struggle with trust and love no matter how much they are shown and many do get involved with drugs and either die of an overdose or kill themselves. Very, very sad..
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Hi Steve, just curious, do you know how many of the adoptees who commit suicide are adopted as babies? Many adoptions of toddlers or older children are placed as fostering with a view to adoption. These children are often appallingly damaged by their experience pre adoption, very often by one or both of their natural parents, there are dreadful stories. Unfortunately, many such children just cannot overcome the damage they have suffered in their most vulnerable years which often causes them to struggle with trust and love no matter how much they are shown and many do get involved with drugs and either die of an overdose or kill themselves. Very, very sad..
Maggie, I think that Steve should consider the variables before he starts throwing random stats at us ;D
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Maggie, I think that Steve should consider the variables before he starts throwing random stats at us ;D
Hi April,I am always aware of the fate of these poor children, they have such a dreadful start many of them never recover.
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Hi April,I am always aware of the fate of these poor children, they have such a dreadful start many of them never recover.
Maggie, I think the people who willingly adopt these poor children are very VERY special.
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There is absolutely NO evidence that Sheila had worked through her 'issues' with June prior to her death. She believed June was possessed by the devil and needed cleansing! Only a couple of days before the murders SC told Barbara Wilson and Jean Bouttel that 'all people were bad and should be killed'! Also,the twins did not sleep in JB's room. JB's bedroom (complete with door sign) was locked and unoccupied. EP had to break the door down to search the room.
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There is absolutely NO evidence that Sheila had worked through her 'issues' with June prior to her death. She believed June was possessed by the devil and needed cleansing! Only a couple of days before the murders SC told Barbara Wilson and Jean Bouttel that 'all people were bad and should be killed'! Also,the twins did not sleep in JB's room. JB's bedroom (complete with door sign) was locked and unoccupied. EP had to break the door down to search the room.
Naughty, NAUGHTY Steve. The lengths he will go to in order to pull wool over eyes. TUT TUT :o :o :o
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Steve, I wonder if you could furnish us with the stats of how many young men of Jeremy's age had to be dragged, screaming from their parental home into their OWN home, where, for possibly the first time in their lives they may enjoy total privacy and experience a freedom ,not previously enjoyed, to invite and "entertain" friends of their choosing. Even MORE, they haven't had to lay out a penny to rent or purchase said home. You may see it as being "pushed out." I see it as not being able to get there fast enough.
I'm afraid sometimes life on your own is not all it's cracked up to be as you settle down to work and realize for how many years you were dependent on outside forces for cooking,shopping,cleaning and getting clothes ready in an age with no microwave oven. Jeremy took these tasks for granted all his life which is why he may have stuck with Julie so long as she filled a vacuum in that regard.
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Hello tyler I did not know that JB's room was locked just assumed the twins used it. I have read that Sheila thought her own children were the devil's children and she thought the world needed ridding of evil. How very sad all this was as Sheila was herself suffering inwardly with her strange thoughts and the Bambers must have been so worried about her all very sad indeed :( susanxx
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Hi Steve, just curious, do you know how many of the adoptees who commit suicide are adopted as babies? Many adoptions of toddlers or older children are placed as fostering with a view to adoption. These children are often appallingly damaged by their experience pre adoption, very often by one or both of their natural parents, there are dreadful stories. Unfortunately, many such children just cannot overcome the damage they have suffered in their most vulnerable years which often causes them to struggle with trust and love no matter how much they are shown and many do get involved with drugs and either die of an overdose or kill themselves. Very, very sad..
My figures are accurate from internet sources,though I would imagine that adoptees from birth who manage to stay within one family are statistically less likely to suicide. I watched the film "Child Rage" on the True Movies channel about a young girl Cat who had been to several families and tried to kill her parents..a heartbreaking story.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_of_Rage
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There is absolutely NO evidence that Sheila had worked through her 'issues' with June prior to her death. She believed June was possessed by the devil and needed cleansing! Only a couple of days before the murders SC told Barbara Wilson and Jean Bouttel that 'all people were bad and should be killed'! Also,the twins did not sleep in JB's room. JB's bedroom (complete with door sign) was locked and unoccupied. EP had to break the door down to search the room.
All of the above is unconfirmed,and in the transcript of Police interrogation of 10,11 and 12 September 1985 Jeremy ventured the information that the twins had changed rooms from the one they normally slept in.
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Hello steve in my experience young men love to fly the nest and often send their dirty washing home to Mother and eat out as you told me Jeremy loved doing. Julie would not have time for cooking and cleaning with her studies and her causal work two jobs I think. Young men love to leave home so they can get upto what young men do. Are you talking from experience steve I would have thought you were very self sufficient.
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Hello steve in my experience young men love to fly the nest and often send their dirty washing home to Mother and eat out as you told me Jeremy loved doing. Julie would not have time for cooking and cleaning with her studies and her causal work two jobs I think. Young men love to leave home so they can get upto what young men do. Are you talking from experience steve I would have thought you were very self sufficient.
Hi susan yes I was speaking from experience in my first few years in 1980s London where looking back I led a 24/7 life of work and chores,though being young I did also manage to fit in time for the gym and a social life.Sometimes people complain about their predicament even if they are relatively happy,but I'm afraid this was not the case with Jeremy as he told his story with expletives to anyone who would listen how much he hated his parents.
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Steve I thought you were talking from experience when I got married I was so homesick for my Mum and her lovely cooking I went back everyday and did so for years till I came to Scotland. Think boys enjoy it better but London would be a lonely place. I was not aware that Jeremy hated his parents I cannot understand any child saying that about a lovely couple who had brought him up and given him a wonderful start in life. Maybe he was just having a moment and did not mean it.
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I'm afraid sometimes life on your own is not all it's cracked up to be as you settle down to work and realize for how many years you were dependent on outside forces for cooking,shopping,cleaning and getting clothes ready in an age with no microwave oven. Jeremy took these tasks for granted all his life which is why he may have stuck with Julie so long as she filled a vacuum in that regard.
Whilst much of what you say, in some cases, would be undeniably true, boarding school teaches independence. The Ritz, believe me, it AIN'T. I would imagine that Jeremy RELISHED having his own space. No parents breathing down his neck, checking up on what time he got in or with WHOM he came in and I feel perfectly certain that had he needed it he wouldn't have been denied use of the family washing machine. I'm not too certain where you're coming from with "an age with no microwave oven" I had one bought for me as a wedding present in 1982 and I know they were available before then. I'm equally certain that he could have had the "use" of June's cleaning lady had he wished. I know that Julie spent time at Jeremy's house but I don't think she ever lived in on a permanent basis.
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Steve I thought you were talking from experience when I got married I was so homesick for my Mum and her lovely cooking I went back everyday and did so for years till I came to Scotland. Think boys enjoy it better but London would be a lonely place. I was not aware that Jeremy hated his parents I cannot understand any child saying that about a lovely couple who had brought him up and given him a wonderful start in life. Maybe he was just having a moment and did not mean it.
I blame the socio-economic aspect of the times we lived in when money seemed to be an all-consuming God in so many people's lives. I certainly could not have worked another job even as a trainee teacher which is why I respect Julie and as for Jeremy I met so many of those types in London who really had no conversation whatsoever apart from the latest Porsche model or the latest model on their arm.
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Whilst much of what you say, in some cases, would be undeniably true, boarding school teaches independence. The Ritz, believe me, it AIN'T. I would imagine that Jeremy RELISHED having his own space. No parents breathing down his neck, checking up on what time he got in or with WHOM he came in and I feel perfectly certain that had he needed it he wouldn't have been denied use of the family washing machine. I'm not too certain where you're coming from with "an age with no microwave oven" I had one bought for me as a wedding present in 1982 and I know they were available before then. I'm equally certain that he could have had the "use" of June's cleaning lady had he wished. I know that Julie spent time at Jeremy's house but I don't think she ever lived in on a permanent basis.
Also, April/Steve I believe Jeremy ate at the pub quite often, didn't he? He swapped potatoes and various farm crops for free beer and food, I thought. ;) Also ate at WHF, I should think. ;)
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Whilst much of what you say, in some cases, would be undeniably true, boarding school teaches independence. The Ritz, believe me, it AIN'T. I would imagine that Jeremy RELISHED having his own space. No parents breathing down his neck, checking up on what time he got in or with WHOM he came in and I feel perfectly certain that had he needed it he wouldn't have been denied use of the family washing machine. I'm not too certain where you're coming from with "an age with no microwave oven" I had one bought for me as a wedding present in 1982 and I know they were available before then. I'm equally certain that he could have had the "use" of June's cleaning lady had he wished. I know that Julie spent time at Jeremy's house but I don't think she ever lived in on a permanent basis.
I think Jeremy yet again began to feel sidelined at Goldhanger especially when Nevill expected him to work his way up at the Farm when all Jeremy had was illusions about being the country squire.
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I blame the socio-economic aspect of the times we lived in when money seemed to be an all-consuming God in so many people's lives. I certainly could not have worked another job even as a trainee teacher which is why I respect Julie and as for Jeremy I met so many of those types in London who really had no conversation whatsoever apart from the latest Porsche model or the latest model on their arm.
I find that a bit unfair Steve as you have no idea what Jeremy was like. He was a farmer not a banker in the city, he may not have been anything like your mental picture of him.
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Hi susan yes I was speaking from experience in my first few years in 1980s London where looking back I led a 24/7 life of work and chores,though being young I did also manage to fit in time for the gym and a social life.Sometimes people complain about their predicament even if they are relatively happy,but I'm afraid this was not the case with Jeremy as he told his story with expletives to anyone who would listen how much he hated his parents.
Steve, if you were speaking from experience, I can imagine that finding oneself alone and away from the comforts of home for the first time, in London, can be the lonliest place in the world. For Jeremy, however, this was not his first time away from home, according to you he was certainly within cycling, if not WALKING distance, from the farm where he could undoubtedly go whenever he chose, apart that is from working there.
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There was no microwave oven in my grotty accommodation and I certainly wasn't paying for one myself for three others to use. All I saw was growing pressure on working people and a steep rise in unemployment where people could have made a contribution. Jeremy realized the expense of furnishing a house and with the loan repayable for his New Zealand trip(I must check what Chris Nevill had to say again but it wasn't complimentary)and replacement car the resentment in Jeremy only fomented until he finally snapped.
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Maggie correct me if I am wrong but I thought I had read a post put up by steve that Jeremy did not feel comfortable around Julie's academic friends as he could not speak on their level .
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I find that a bit unfair Steve as you have no idea what Jeremy was like. He was a farmer not a banker in the city, he may not have been anything like your mental picture of him.
He complained to many people how short of money he was until he faced Police interrogation when suddenly he began to stress how financially secure he felt. I'm afraid this was just one of the many subterfuges Jeremy used which continues to this day.
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I blame the socio-economic aspect of the times we lived in when money seemed to be an all-consuming God in so many people's lives. I certainly could not have worked another job even as a trainee teacher which is why I respect Julie and as for Jeremy I met so many of those types in London who really had no conversation whatsoever apart from the latest Porsche model or the latest model on their arm.
It rather sounds as if you're basing Jeremy on every Hooray Henry in London when you were there. I wonder if you ever felt that Julie was a traitor to her class.
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It rather sounds as if you're basing Jeremy on every Hooray Henry in London when you were there. I wonder if you ever felt that Julie was a traitor to her class.
No she was a Yuppie who beat them all at their own game,and good luck to her now because she made her own luck..
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I find that a bit unfair Steve as you have no idea what Jeremy was like. He was a farmer not a banker in the city, he may not have been anything like your mental picture of him.
If he was like that he certainly would not be living in a small cottage in Goldhanger. But rather in a spacious flat in London with all the other yuppies.
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You are hardly "pushed out" of your parents´ home living on your own in a HOUSE completely at your disposal, free of charge at the age of 24!!! I´d say he was, and must have felt, rather privileged!
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No she was a Yuppie who beat them all at their own game,and good luck to her now because she made her own luck..
I wonder what she saw in Jeremy?
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There was no microwave oven in my grotty accommodation and I certainly wasn't paying for one myself for three others to use. All I saw was growing pressure on working people and a steep rise in unemployment where people could have made a contribution. Jeremy realized the expense of furnishing a house and with the loan repayable for his New Zealand trip(I must check what Chris Nevill had to say again but it wasn't complimentary)and replacement car the resentment in Jeremy only fomented until he finally snapped.
Steve, your experience can have done no other than colour your view of life in different hues to my own. That doesn't mean that either of us is right/wrong. You see Jeremy's view of "having" to furnish a cottage through your own experience. I see it through my own. I doubt that I had jeremy's income but the excitement of furnishing my own home outweighed my penury. I really don't believe that the outstanding New Zealand loan was weighing too heavily on Jeremy's shoulders, neither would he have worried unduly about the cost of a replacement car. My own insurance company paid me within £5 of what I'd paid for a car which was written of and it took about a week for the cheque to come through.
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No she was a Yuppie who beat them all at their own game,and good luck to her now because she made her own luck..
So Thatcher's Yuppies are unacceptable but Mugford Yuppism is OK?
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steve not luck that Julie got but opportunity.
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steve not luck that Julie got but opportunity.
And a helping of bluff I would have said too.
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Steve, that was an answer to a question I never asked.
But it does reveal that she was not a person to be ignorantly lead as we have been lead to believe. She knew her own mind and was prepared to do anything to get her own way. That is how she comes across to me anyway. Just look at the her NOTW pictures as an example of what I say.
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If he was like that he certainly would not be living in a small cottage in Goldhanger. But rather in a spacious flat in London with all the other yuppies.
But Grahame that's just what he aspired to and look where he ended up as a result of the five deaths..http://www.morsheadmansions.com/
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But it does reveal that she was not a person to be ignorantly lead as we have been lead to believe. She knew her own mind and was prepared to do anything to get her own way. That is how she comes across to me anyway. Just look at the her NOTW pictures as an example of what I say.
Grahame, your observation fits perfectly with Steve's description of Julie as "a Yuppie who beat them all at their own game...........because she made her own luck" DIDN'T SHE JUST!!!!!
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So Thatcher's Yuppies are unacceptable but Mugford Yuppism is OK?
I have nothing against people wanting to develop their own talents to the best of their own abilities:just I would tax them a bit more once they are earning the kind of salary Julie is now,but that has nothing to do with the Jeremy Bamber case. All I might add is that there is nothing worse than pushy parents with children of mediocre abilities planning their lives out for them which only adds pressure and in this sense this does bring me back to Jeremy Bamber.
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I agree with you there,Steve,,about pushy parents ( very damaging to the child ) and also another thing that gets up my nose are child prodigies,,but that's the opposite to what the conversation's about.
I don't think the Bamber parents had set their sights too high with either Sheila or Jeremy. They were the type of parents who would let both find their own ways in life. Like the time when Jeremy was doing his travelling,,the easiest option would have been to let him live out his dream of travelling,which is what happened. He was a youn