Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Roch on July 10, 2013, 03:27:PM
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Not sure how old this article is but I do not think the contentious phone log would be classed as 'a clear forensic link' to a struggle having took place involving Sheila in the kitchen. Even if the phone log is read from a standpoint sympathetic to the defence, it does not indicate an actual struggle in the kitchen between Sheila and Nevill.
In extracts from a letter published in the Daily Mirror, Bamber says: "We now have evidence to directly link Sheila in a struggle with my dad in the kitchen, a clear forensic link that is compelling to say the least.
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/Bamber-confident-of-new-evidence-0-60518.xnf?BodyFormat=2&
If he is not referring to the phone log, then what 'forensic' item is he referring to?
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Not so much a struggle,,but a desperate call indicating that a very sick woman had hold of one of the guns is/was proof enough that all wasn't well in that house, as one could/would have imagined.
Put another way,,,it wasn't a normal night at the farmhouse.! By all accounts,Sheila had " flipped " before,but not,it seemed whilst in charge of a rifle.
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Thanks Lookout. I do think he is referring to an item of evidential value that links Sheila to crime scene in the kitchen. For example, perhaps this 'forensic' item came to light as a result of the defence being able commision lab blow ups from the negatives released by the CCRC?
Whatever it may have been, why was it not used in the last submissions and whatever it is, will it be used in any future submissions?
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Thanks Lookout. I do think he is referring to an item of evidential value that links Sheila to crime scene in the kitchen. For example, perhaps this 'forensic' item came to light as a result of the defence being able commision lab blow ups from the negatives released by the CCRC?
Whatever it may have been, why was it not used in the last submissions and whatever it is, will it be used in any future submissions?
Roch,,it probably wasn't obtained until after the last submission anyway if the truth be known. I feel that there's a bit too much dragging of feet in all this. Purposely done to drag the case out more than it already has been. That being the case,I hope that what has been retrieved from" burial" after all these years,,is going to be worthwhile for the near future.
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Roch,,it probably wasn't obtained until after the last submission anyway if the truth be known. I feel that there's a bit too much dragging of feet in all this. Purposely done to drag the case out more than it already has been. That being the case,I hope that what has been retrieved from" burial" after all these years,,is going to be worthwhile for the near future.
Hi lookout/Roch, I'm a bit lost have read the link but has Jeremy just written the letter or what are they referring to?
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This refers to about 3 years ago, as that is when Jeremy had been in custody for "nearly twenty-five years". Presumably, the evidence has therefore already been considered by the CCRC.
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Hi lookout/Roch, I'm a bit lost have read the link but has Jeremy just written the letter or what are they referring to?
Maggie, it would appear the letter is either from 2010 or 2011. My guess is the latter and the 'forensic' link refers specifically to the kitchen crime scene.
Roch,,it probably wasn't obtained until after the last submission anyway if the truth be known. I feel that there's a bit too much dragging of feet in all this. Purposely done to drag the case out more than it already has been. That being the case,I hope that what has been retrieved from" burial" after all these years,,is going to be worthwhile for the near future.
You may be right about the dragging of feet Lookout. Or perhaps there was not enough time to focus on this aspect of 'forensic' evidence, given the change of legal representation?
This refers to about 3 years ago, as that is when Jeremy had been in custody for "nearly twenty-five years". Presumably, the evidence has therefore already been considered by the CCRC.
That might depend upon whether the journalist writing the article is including the period spent on remand, awaiting trial. It's possible that the journalist is referring to the period from October 1986 sentencing. So we could be looking at 2011, which is when I think the CCRC released the negatives to the defence.
I'm not sure if Neil may be able to shed any further light on what is being referred to in the letter?
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Thanks for your explanation Roch ;) am still a bit confused. Hopefully ngb will know more. :)
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Hi Maggie, I wonder whether JB was/is referring to the chipped toe nail paint - from SC's painted toes - that I believe Sutherst (the "photo expert") spotted ???
Sutherst, as you know, has checked crime scene photos of the kitchen to determine if red paint from the aga surround was on the floor - he found none - suggesting the aga surround scratch marks, allegedly made by the silencer, were not there at the time the photos were taken, but I believe he apparently spotted a fleck of toe nail paint on the kitchen floor that possibly matched a chip in SC's toe nail.
However; we also know Sutherst's expert opinion has got JB nowhere!! :P
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Hi Maggie, I wonder whether JB was/is referring to the chipped toe nail paint - from SC's painted toes - that I believe Sutherst (the "photo expert") spotted ???
Sutherst, as you know, has checked crime scene photos of the kitchen to determine if red paint from the aga surround was on the floor - he found none - suggesting the aga surround scratch marks, allegedly made by the silencer, were not there at the time the photos were taken, but I believe he apparently spotted a fleck of toe nail paint on the kitchen floor that possibly matched a chip in SC's toe nail.
However; we also know Sutherst's expert opinion has got JB nowhere!! :P
Hello nickos, good to see you posting again. :) You could be right, he may have been speaking of the chipped toe nail which would put Sheila in the kitchen at some time but don't see what else, on it's own it does prove. Depends on the context it's used in. Roch or lookout introduced the subject, wonder what they think? ;D
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Nickos my love you have returned to me. Did you enjoy your stay in Bonnie Scotland. Haste ye back :-* :-* :-*
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Hello nickos, good to see you posting again. :) You could be right, he may have been speaking of the chipped toe nail which would put Sheila in the kitchen at some time but don't see what else, on it's own it does prove. Depends on the context it's used in. Roch or lookout introduced the subject, wonder what they think? ;D
Thanks Mags, we'll wait for Roch / lookout's take on it! :)
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Nickos my love you have returned to me. Did you enjoy your stay in Bonnie Scotland. Haste ye back :-* :-* :-*
Hi McG, how could I stay away. :-*
I see over the months you have become more convinced of JB's innocence.
Not for me!!
I’m back up with my boys late August – the Kenmore / Loch Tay area.
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Nickos the day will come when you will agree with me or you will be banned from Scotland ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Maggie, I wonder whether JB was/is referring to the chipped toe nail paint - from SC's painted toes - that I believe Sutherst (the "photo expert") spotted ???
Sutherst, as you know, has checked crime scene photos of the kitchen to determine if red paint from the aga surround was on the floor - he found none - suggesting the aga surround scratch marks, allegedly made by the silencer, were not there at the time the photos were taken, but I believe he apparently spotted a fleck of toe nail paint on the kitchen floor that possibly matched a chip in SC's toe nail.
However; we also know Sutherst's expert opinion has got JB nowhere!! :P
This did cross my mind also but, can't see one fleck of toe nail paint turing the whole case on it's head. Like a lot of things, it will simply be dismissed.
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Nickos the day will come when you will agree with me or you will be banned from Scotland ;D ;D ;D ;D
That sounds like you have a strong streak of independence about you ;) – If I'm banned I’ll have do the opposite to BPC, I’ll sneak in dressed as Betty Burke!! ;D
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Nickos I have to have a strong streak of independence as they will deport me and Yorkshire wont have me back so it would be Lancashire Hot Pot for me ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Nickos you are a hoot and make me laugh ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Maggie, it would appear the letter is either from 2010 or 2011. My guess is the latter and the 'forensic' link refers specifically to the kitchen crime scene.
You may be right about the dragging of feet Lookout. Or perhaps there was not enough time to focus on this aspect of 'forensic' evidence, given the change of legal representation?
That might depend upon whether the journalist writing the article is including the period spent on remand, awaiting trial. It's possible that the journalist is referring to the period from October 1986 sentencing. So we could be looking at 2011, which is when I think the CCRC released the negatives to the defence.
I'm not sure if Neil may be able to shed any further light on what is being referred to in the letter?
I think this may refer to a piece of evidence discovered by Jeremy himself in the course of his detailed review of the case papers. This evidence is strongly suggestive of a struggle involving Sheila having taken place in the kitchen. It has not to my knowledge yet been made public and it has not to date been included in submissions to the CCRC. It is in my view something worth investigating further.
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I think this may refer to a piece of evidence discovered by Jeremy himself in the course of his detailed review of the case papers. This evidence is strongly suggestive of a struggle involving Sheila having taken place in the kitchen. It has not to my knowledge yet been made public and it has not to date been included in submissions to the CCRC. It is in my view something worth investigating further.
Thank you ngb and how interesting. :)
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Hi ngb thanks for that my vibes get stronger daily for Jeremy's release. I have such a good feeling that the truth will emerge shortly.
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This did cross my mind also but, can't see one fleck of toe nail paint turing the whole case on it's head. Like a lot of things, it will simply be dismissed.
JB imo gets his hopes up too often - and I can see the Sutherst photographic report did this.
As you say, like a lot of things, it has been simply dismissed - no follow up by the defence whatsoever, leading me to believe there is no further mileage in the Sutherst report and his suggestion that there were no scratch marks on the Aga surround in the kitchen crime scene photos.
I'm still baffled with this one - surely there are, or there aren't, scratch marks on the Aga surround - how crap were the crime scene photos ::).
What can one person see that another can't ;)
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I think this may refer to a piece of evidence discovered by Jeremy himself in the course of his detailed review of the case papers. This evidence is strongly suggestive of a struggle involving Sheila having taken place in the kitchen. It has not to my knowledge yet been made public and it has not to date been included in submissions to the CCRC. It is in my view something worth investigating further.
Hi NGB, this would suggest to me it is not of any great significance, and probably another easily dismissed piece of so called "evidence".
Are you able to elaborate on when JB apparently discovered this or what it might be, or is it one of those “keeping the powder dry” points that probably won’t ever surface!
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Hi ngb thanks for that my vibes get stronger daily for Jeremy's release. I have such a good feeling that the truth will emerge shortly.
You just keep your vibes out of this, or the batteries will run down ;D :-*
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Nickos I just love you and your chickens to bits ;D ;D ;D ;D
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My friend Nickos just you wait and watch this space ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D you are aware that I read the tea leaves ;) ;) ;) ;)
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My friend Nickos just you wait and watch this space ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D you are aware that I read the tea leaves ;) ;) ;) ;)
I've got a crystal ball, but don't tell anyone ;D
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Nickos your secret is safe with me ;D ;D ;D
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Hi NGB, this would suggest to me it is of not of any great significance, and probably another easily dismissed piece of so called "evidence".
Are you able to elaborate on when JB apparently discovered this or what it might be, or is it one of those “keeping the powder dry” points that probably won’t ever surface!
In my view it could be significant evidence suggesting that Sheila was responsible. I am sorry I am not able to elaborate even though I do not believe it would harm the defence to do so. The reason is that I have agreed with JB that I will not reveal information here which has not been revealed on the "official" website. In the light of this I do find it irritating at times to see information being drip fed by elsewhere but there is nothing I can do about that.
I am not able to say whether this will be included in the next submissions to the CCRC but I certainly believe it is worth further investigation and if this confirms the evidence I believe it should be included.
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In my view it could be significant evidence suggesting that Sheila was responsible. I am sorry I am not able to elaborate even though I do not believe it would harm the defence to do so. The reason is that I have agreed with JB that I will not reveal information here which has not been revealed on the "official" website. In the light of this I do find it irritating at times to see information being drip fed by elsewhere but there is nothing I can do about that.
I am not able to say whether this will be included in the next submissions to the CCRC but I certainly believe it is worth further investigation and if this confirms the evidence I believe it should be included.
Ngb,,I don't know about irritating,I find it very frustrating that the " wheels " aren't spinning as they should. I feel that Jeremy has the patience of a saint,whereas,I wouldn't have. It's all like slow-motion to me,,even though I do understand that there's a lot of work involved,,but hey ho,I can't do anything about my petulant character. It runs on my fathers side of having a politically-minded family.
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Ngb,,I don't know about irritating,I find it very frustrating that the " wheels " aren't spinning as they should. I feel that Jeremy has the patience of a saint,whereas,I wouldn't have. It's all like slow-motion to me,,even though I do understand that there's a lot of work involved,,but hey ho,I can't do anything about my petulant character. It runs on my fathers side of having a politically-minded family.
I agree lookout, everything moves at a very slow pace. That in my view is largely because since the 2002 appeal Jeremy has not had legal aid and does not have the resources to employ a full time legal team. He has had to rely upon his own efforts and the help of his supporters and lawyers who have been prepared to offer their services pro bono. The CCRC have not been proactive in following lines of investigation, they have simply responded to material submitted to them. It really has been an uphill battle. Fortunately Jeremy remains positive and optimistic and continues to work hard on his case. How he manages this after over 28 years as a maximum security prisoner I do not know.
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ngb all credit to Jeremy he is determined to clear his name and I have no doubt all his hard work will be rewarded and he will walk a free man.
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ngb all credit to Jeremy he is determined to clear his name and I have no doubt all his hard work will be rewarded and he will walk a free man.
He does appear to be a very resilient and focussed person. He's pretty amazing really in the way he continues on his path in spite of massive setbacks. Don't know how the person who has kept out of trouble in prison, hardly ever lost his temper or got into any sort of trouble can be seen by some as such a psychopathic and wicked man.. The two personalities just don't add up imo. :o
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Hi Mags I agree Jeremy is proving what a strong determined person he is many would have given up long ago but not Jeremy he will prove his innocence. He does not appear bitter or twisted many would be at the raw deal he has had. IMO he does not have a violent bone in his body never did not the right material to be a mass murderer.
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He does appear to be a very resilient and focussed person. He's pretty amazing really in the way he continues on his path in spite of massive setbacks. Don't know how the person who has kept out of trouble in prison, hardly ever lost his temper or got into any sort of trouble can be seen by some as such a psychopathic and wicked man.. The two personalities just don't add up imo. :o
And this is the same man that the family, despite the prison authorities belief to the contrary, deemed to be too great a threat to them to be allowed to continue his downgrade to Catagory B status
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Hello april wonder why the family are so frightened of Jeremy being released and how can it affect them if he is downgraded to CatB. If their conscience is clear cannot see how it affects them if he is released or downgraded.
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Hello april wonder why the family are so frightened of Jeremy being released and how can it affect them if he is downgraded to CatB. If their conscience is clear cannot see how it affects them if he is released or downgraded.
Susan, that's a question many of us would like to know the answer to :D
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You're forgetting about Jeremy's "dirty protest" in 1992. Besides he fits many of the characteristics of David Bain,the New Zealand mass murderer.
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You're forgetting about Jeremy's "dirty protest" in 1992. Besides he fits many of the characteristics of David Bain,the New Zealand mass murderer.
No he doesn't, the murders scene was similar but Bain and Jeremy B are nothing alike!!
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You're forgetting about Jeremy's "dirty protest" in 1992. Besides he fits many of the characteristics of David Bain,the New Zealand mass murderer.
ONCE in 28 years, Steve. Unforgivable.
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Hello april wonder why the family are so frightened of Jeremy being released and how can it affect them if he is downgraded to CatB. If their conscience is clear cannot see how it affects them if he is released or downgraded.
There may be several reasons susan, when you think of the huge cost to keep prisoners all alone seperated from wings with no hope of downgrade, downgrade is not offered free there has to be reason to give it, such judjements must rest with the authorities and not paronoid relatives.
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There may be several reasons susan, when you think of the huge cost to keep prisoners all alone seperated from wings with no hope of downgrade, downgrade is not offered free there has to be reason to give it, such judjements must rest with the authorities and not paronoid relatives.
It seems strange to me that that the Boutflour/Etons where handed power on a plate. They were given carte blanche to override the prison authorities whilst other relatives appear to have no say whatsoever in the length of sentence served by those who robbed them of family members.
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Hello april quite amazing they were given so much power over Jeremy considering they did not look on him as a relative :'( and never had done.
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It seems strange to me that that the Boutflour/Etons where handed power on a plate. They were given carte blanche to override the prison authorities whilst other relatives appear to have no say whatsoever in the length of sentence served by those who robbed them of family members.
Well, in essence, they also dictated the direction of the investigation!!
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Well, in essence, they also dictated the direction of the investigation!!
Had it ALL their own way, haven't they.......................so far :D
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I only have contempt for the relatives. It's all been about THEM.! I've never heard them say,yet,," oh my poor family have gone forever." I'd have been beside myself.
All they've done is to damn Jeremy to Kingdom Come. Speaks volumes,doesn't it.?