Jeremy Bamber Forum

OTHER HIGH PROFILE CASES => Other cases => Topic started by: Caroline R on July 05, 2013, 02:00:AM

Title: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: Caroline R on July 05, 2013, 02:00:AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jul/02/channel-4-broadcast-murder-trial
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: Nickos on July 12, 2013, 10:43:AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jul/02/channel-4-broadcast-murder-trial

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Arlene_Fraser

Absolutely riveting - if you like this sort of stuff  ;)

The Murder of Arlene Fraser

28 April 1998 – Nat Frasers wife Arlene disappears

No body ever found
No murder weapon
No signs of foul play at family home
Initially treated as a missing person (WHF initially treated as 4 murders and a suicide)
Fraser had strong alibi (similar to JB)
Circumstantial evidence only (similar to JB)
Damning circumstantial evidence from witnesses (similar to JB)
Proposed use of hit man (similar to JB story in part)
Prosecution witnesses accused of lying (sounds familiar)

29 January 2003 – Nat Fraser found guilty (similar to JB)

Defence claims missing evidence - March 2006 two inquiries were announced after claims that relevant evidence was not made available to the original trial (sounds familiar)

May 2006 – Nat Fraser released from prison pending the outcome of his appeal.
 
The case went to appeal in November 2007 with claims that the prosecution in the original case had withheld evidence, and that police officers had lied (sounds familiar).

2012 – Frasers re-trial televised – Fraser chooses not to give evidence.

May 2012 - Fraser found guilty again, by a majority.

Fraser continues to protest his innocence (sounds familiar)

I picked out two quotes in Caroline's link as, to me, they have a ring of another person about them:

“It was about six weeks after she vanished that Nat started showing off, breaking cover and boasting that he was more clever than the cops.”

"The most intriguing figure in the case was the defendant, who opted not to give evidence but agreed to be filmed. He was the still centre of the trial, listening, watching and maintaining a strange aura of glamour that one could read almost anything into."

This is a sad bit - "a daughter who is so convinced of his innocence she says she wouldn't believe he committed the murder even if he confessed."

Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 10:58:AM
there was almost outrages lack of evedence agianst him i thought.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 11:03:AM
Hi nugnug  are you talking about Nat Fraser.  Little evidence against Jeremy Bamber but he was found guilty and sentenced to minimum of 25 years.  Not sure where I stand on Nat Fraser think he was wrong not to take the stand.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 11:05:AM
he was probably told not to take the stand by his barrister.

most people dont take the stand i bet jeremy regrets takeing the stand.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 11:10:AM
nugnug may I ask your take on this do you think Nat Fraser innocent if so who do you think was responsible the farmer guy who can't even manage to tell lies properly.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 11:13:AM
i tink he could of done it but the proscution pruduced no evedence that he did do it.

the cliam he hired a hitman but they have produced no evidence that he did.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 11:38:AM
nugnug what about the farmer Dick guy he said Nat Fraser told him he had strangled his wife.  But then again who could believe a word that came out of his mouth.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 11:44:AM
he dick was a suspect himself so he was hardly an independant witness.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 12:03:PM
nugnug that sounds so funny do you mean Mr. Dick was a suspect.  He spent a year in prison to do with the case very complicated.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: campion on July 12, 2013, 12:04:PM
Susan and Nug Nug, Hi - I also watched and was enthralled with the programme. The lack of finding of the body of Arlene Fraser, and the evasive evidence from the "farmer guy", under the brilliant cross examination of Nat Fraser's Counsel, put me in mind of the Muriel McKay Murder , in late 1969. It was postulated that her body had been fed to pigs, so the Hosein brothers were convicted without the finding of her body. Thus I was flabbergasted when the Jury returned a majority verdict of 'Guilty', in the case of Mrs Fraser. The Jury were not filmed, understandably, but it would have been interesting to have evidenced them. Just how could they have reached that conclusion on the evidence that was filmed?
  Yes Nugnug , just how could Farmer Dick have been a prosecution witness, whilst also being a potential candidate (having admitted to having an affair with the attractive Mrs Fraser)?
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 12:10:PM
Hi campion quite a controversial case the Nat Fraser one he upset the Scottish Judicial System by going to the High Court in London and getting a retrial (I think nugs is more informed than me) at one time his sentence was quashed then I think the family brought a private prosecution.  Farmer Dick was some witness for anything.  Arlene Fraser was beautiful but her daughter just adores her Father and thinks him innocent.  We have not heard the last of him.  nugnug correct if any of my post is wrong.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: campion on July 12, 2013, 12:18:PM
Susan- Am I correct in thinking Alex Salmon has got a finger in the pie in this controversy?
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 12:28:PM
alex salmon was upset because the supreme in London overruled the Scottish high court.

no Susan you are right.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 12:30:PM
campion my dear you could be right he seems to have his fingers in many pies.  I was thinking just now you said Arlene Fraser had an affair with Dick the Farmer my god he must have hidden talents as he has none showing ;D ;D ;D ;D and everything he does will be in slow motion ;D
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 12:33:PM
wow nugs thanks for that I must be improving with age like a bottle of whisky ;D
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 01:08:PM
hector dick i belive is pig farmer witch to me  explians the mystory of why there isnt a body.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 01:35:PM
nugnug oh my you are right he is a pig farmer and perish the thought of Arlene ending up there but it did happen before according to campion and could account for no body ever being traced and I believe a car was burnt out so no DNA in that. :(
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 01:37:PM
hector dick was seen hanging around the victems house that day.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 02:04:PM
nugnug  if Hector Dick was the culprit was he put up to it by Nat Fraser as many think Fraser was behind the murder.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 02:10:PM
well fraser couldn't have carried out even the police and prosecution except that.

its possible but the prosecution produced no credible evidence that fraser was involved.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 02:25:PM
nugs this is a very strange case as I feel he is involved somehow but how I don't know.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 02:28:PM
i cant say for a fact he wasn't involved it just that as i can see theirs no evidence that he was.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 02:30:PM
suppose he was too clever to get involved himself and put farmer dipstick upto it.  He was so uncomfortable when he was on the witness stand I almost felt sorry for him.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 02:37:PM
at the end of the day they shouldent be able send some down for life on the argument that he must of been involved without producing evidence that he was involved.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 02:41:PM
nugnugs I agree but I thought his conviction was quashed at some stage.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 03:17:PM
yes it quashed by the supreme court in London that's what salmond was making all the fuss about.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 12, 2013, 03:22:PM
nugs how did it get back to Court he is serving a jail sentence did he have a retrial or did the relatives bring a private prosecution.  I seem to be lost on this one.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 12, 2013, 03:30:PM
yes there were 2 trials.
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 13, 2013, 12:32:AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2680513.stm
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: Caroline R on July 13, 2013, 01:55:AM
hector dick i belive is pig farmer witch to me  explians the mystory of why there isnt a body.

He wasn't just a pig farmer, he owned a meat processing plant!!
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: susan on July 13, 2013, 06:45:AM
Morning Caroline

what a thought to start the day.  Glad I am a veggie ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 13, 2013, 12:55:PM
http://www.heraldscotland.com/spo...t-missing-person-inquiry-1.127765
Title: Re: The Murder Trial (Channel 4)
Post by: nugnug on July 19, 2013, 04:20:PM
this is a good site when its working.

http://justicefornatfraser.webs.com/