Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on June 29, 2013, 08:18:PM
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Jeremy's mental state at time of both funerals
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Jeremy's mental state at time of both funerals
How interesting Mike and how sad.
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How interesting Mike and how sad.
I agree, Maggie...
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Sometimes it takes a long time to grieve...It a hollow feeling of numbness and pain that is difficult to share... :(
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What is worth a mention mike about this statement is though at time fragile but still valuable in the first instance reference to the relatives on a specific point items of value, the second by the person making the statement its a first generation one a simple frank , collective thoughts of someone who came into contact jeremy, i see no reason to question the contents then or today.
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What is worth a mention mike about this statement is though at time fragile but still valuable in the first instance reference to the relatives on a specific point items of value, the second by the person making the statement its a first generation one a simple frank , collective thoughts of someone who came into contact jeremy, i see no reason to question the contents then or today.
Mertol, I have many similar witness statements, which I shall endeavor to post, to provide accurate insight into what was really going on in the minds of people who knew Jeremy, and his family......
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I hope you do,and also post what appears to be a smirk which Jeremy let out as he passed under the lychgate on his egress from his parents' funeral when he thought the cameras were off..
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I hope you do,and also post what appears to be a smirk which Jeremy let out as he passed under the lychgate on his egress from his parents' funeral when he thought the cameras were off..
a smirk , smile or laugh are normal on funerals steve at least for the thousands ive been present at .
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a smirk , smile or laugh are normal on funerals steve at least for the thousands ive been present at .
It was continued by crude vulgar remarks directed at the waitresses,by attempts to sell photographs of his dead sister to Michael Fielder,Sun reporter,by selling antiques and family heirlooms to Sotheby's..in fact Jeremy has never grieved one day for the five victims he killed.
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It was continued by crude vulgar remarks directed at the waitresses,by attempts to sell photographs of his dead sister to Michael Fielder,Sun reporter,by selling antiques and family heirlooms to Sotheby's..in fact Jeremy has never grieved one day for the five victims he killed.
How could you possibly know that Steve without you having been there. It was a smile. Is one not allowed to smile at any point....
What is your take on AE telephoning people and asking them when they were made redundant and asking if it was because Jeremy had returned back from abroad....Its not a thing I would do, I would be too upset to ask tail tackling questions....but hey ho a rule for one but not for another...Ha! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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It was continued by crude vulgar remarks directed at the waitresses,by attempts to sell photographs of his dead sister to Michael Fielder,Sun reporter,by selling antiques and family heirlooms to Sotheby's..in fact Jeremy has never grieved one day for the five victims he killed.
Steve,,have you ever thought that Jeremy sold " heirlooms " so that the family wouldn't get their mitts on it.? I've done the same thing myself in the past,rather than let someone who wasn't deserved of something have it/them. He had his own reasons and it wasn't a crime.
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How could you possibly know that Steve without you having been there. It was a smile. Is one not allowed to smile at any point....
What is your take on AE telephoning people and asking them when they were made redundant and asking if it was because Jeremy had returned back from abroad....Its not a thing I would do, I would be too upset to ask tail tackling questions....but hey ho a rule for one but not for another...Ha! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yes,Jeremy returned from abroad,just as in the David Bain case,and that's when the trouble started brewing..
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Steve,,have you ever thought that Jeremy sold " heirlooms " so that the family wouldn't get their mitts on it.? I've done the same thing myself in the past,rather than let someone who wasn't deserved of something have it/them. He had his own reasons and it wasn't a crime.
He could have stored them at the Maida Vale flat,which he had inherited by killing the twins in addition to Sheila..
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It was continued by crude vulgar remarks directed at the waitresses,by attempts to sell photographs of his dead sister to Michael Fielder,Sun reporter,by selling antiques and family heirlooms to Sotheby's..in fact Jeremy has never grieved one day for the five victims he killed.
They were his to do with as he pleased, they didn't belong to the relatives, they belonged to Jeremy!! AND if he had tried to sell pictures of Sheila to the Sun, there would have been evidence but once again, the claim comes evidence free!!
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I hope you do,and also post what appears to be a smirk which Jeremy let out as he passed under the lychgate on his egress from his parents' funeral when he thought the cameras were off..
One persons smirk is another persons smile and is usually a response/acknowledgement of another person. Steve, you may well be hoping for future sainthood but whilst you occupy space on earth with the rest of us lesser mortals, I imagine the pedestal on which you appear to place yourself to be a very lonely place indeed and far removed from reality.
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They were his to do with as he pleased, they didn't belong to the relatives, they belonged to Jeremy!! AND if he had tried to sell pictures of Sheila to the Sun, there would have been evidence but once again, the claim comes evidence free!!
Accuse Michael Fielder of lying..he comes in a long list of people who must be acting similarly for Jeremy to be innocent. Speaking of acting didn't Brett tell Jeremy he was too happy and to bite on an onion for the cameras and to wear some pale make-up,as well as Jeremy's desire to record the funerals on Nevill's video recorder he pinched from the lounge at White House Farm,as well as Jeremy's desire to read all the newspapers as in the David Bain case.
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Accuse Michael Fielder of lying..he comes in a long list of people who must be acting similarly for Jeremy to be innocent. Speaking of acting didn't Brett tell Jeremy he was too happy and to bite on an onion for the cameras and to wear some pale make-up,as well as Jeremy's desire to record the funerals on Nevill's video recorder he pinched from the lounge at White House Farm,as well as Jeremy's desire to read all the newspapers as in the David Bain case.
Steve,,if Jeremy hadn't have read the newspapers,,that would have been wrong too,,because folk would have been saying that he didn't want to be reminded " of his dirty deeds " Damned if he did,damned if he didn't.
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Steve,,if Jeremy hadn't have read the newspapers,,that would have been wrong too,,because folk would have been saying that he didn't want to be reminded " of his dirty deeds " Damned if he did,damned if he didn't.
That's possible lookout but was it necessary to buy them all and spread them out on the lounge carpet at Goldhanger..this just smacks of the control freak Jeremy had become similar to David Bain who both liked to see the consequences of their actions.
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That's possible lookout but was it necessary to buy them all and spread them out on the lounge carpet at Goldhanger..this just smacks of the control freak Jeremy had become similar to David Bain who both liked to see the consequences of their actions.
I seem to recall that we ALL bought many, MANY more newspapers than usual. Those of us who don't inhabit your own lofty position of perfection have a morbid fascination of tragedies and this one was local. Nobody has yet said anything about how many newspapers were collected by RWB et al, but I'll bet it amounted to more than their usual publications.
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I seem to recall that we ALL bought many, MANY more newspapers than usual. Those of us who don't inhabit your own lofty position of perfection have a morbid fascination of tragedies and this one was local. Nobody has yet said anything about how many newspapers were collected by RWB et al, but I'll bet it amounted to more than their usual publications.
Wasn't it around this time that Jeremy reentered White House Farm by the very window he had used on the morning of the killings to destroy any possibility of Police gathering forensic evidence,when he sensed the net tightening in on him..
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That's possible lookout but was it necessary to buy them all and spread them out on the lounge carpet at Goldhanger..this just smacks of the control freak Jeremy had become similar to David Bain who both liked to see the consequences of their actions.
Steve,,I should very much hope that Jeremy has kept references to each of those newspapers on account of them each telling their own versions of events.
It's not a case of liking or wanting to see the consequences of their actions,,it's studying to see if any of them have got the right story without elaborating and ending up like Chinese Whispers with a bit more added on. They all have a habit of jumping in feet first,regardless of whether it's the truth or not.
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Steve,,I should very much hope that Jeremy has kept references to each of those newspapers on account of them each telling their own versions of events.
It's not a case of liking or wanting to see the consequences of their actions,,it's studying to see if any of them have got the right story without elaborating and ending up like Chinese Whispers with a bit more added on. They all have a habit of jumping in feet first,regardless of whether it's the truth or not.
..or was it more to check whether the journalists' accounts tallied with what really had occurred that morning so Jeremy felt a sense of superiority if they got it wrong. After all as Jeremy told Liz Rimington during this period:"I'm the only one who knows what happened that night.."
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..or was it more to check whether the journalists' accounts tallied with what really had occurred that morning so Jeremy felt a sense of superiority if they got it wrong. After all as Jeremy told Liz Rimington during this period:"I'm the only one who knows what happened that night.."
Oh dear,,he said,she said.Was anyone around as witness to all these things that Jeremy was supposed to have said.? With friends like that lot,you certainly don't need enemies.
Journalists don't always get it right either. The more gory the detail,the more newspapers they sell and the more money they get,,sod what impact it has on someones' life.
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Accuse Michael Fielder of lying..he comes in a long list of people who must be acting similarly for Jeremy to be innocent. Speaking of acting didn't Brett tell Jeremy he was too happy and to bite on an onion for the cameras and to wear some pale make-up,as well as Jeremy's desire to record the funerals on Nevill's video recorder he pinched from the lounge at White House Farm,as well as Jeremy's desire to read all the newspapers as in the David Bain case.
Yeah because The Sun is reknowned for truth isn't it? David Bain was 'accuitted' on appeal. AS for the rest of it, Jeremy cant be responsible for what other people say! Were the funerals recorded, I have never seen that said before - was that from Wilkes or Powell? Why would he need to 'pinch' the recorder? If it was at WHF, it was his!! You talk about Jeremy as if he had no place at WHF - he might have been adopted but he was Neville and June Bamber's son and WHF was his home!!
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Yeah because The Sun is reknowned for truth isn't it? David Bain was 'accuitted' on appeal. AS for the rest of it, Jeremy cant be responsible for what other people say! Were the funerals recorded, I have never seen that said before - was that from Wilkes or Powell? Why would he need to 'pinch' the recorder? If it was at WHF, it was his!! You talk about Jeremy as if he had no place at WHF - he might have been adopted but he was Neville and June Bamber's son and WHF was his home!!
But he had moved out to Goldhanger..wasn't there similar discussions in the David Bain case. As for the funerals I have seen a video of Jeremy exiting through a lychgate with Julie at Tolleshunt D'Arcy but admittedly I'm having a hard time of locating that particular clip.
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But he had moved out to Goldhanger..wasn't there similar discussions in the David Bain case. As for the funerals I have seen a video of Jeremy exiting through a lychgate with Julie at Tolleshunt D'Arcy but admittedly I'm having a hard time of locating that particular clip.
Jeremy moved out to Goldhanger most likely to suit the madam he was with at the time,,because of the strained friendship between her and June,,who couldn't stand her,and visits to WHF were becoming tedious to Julie,and probably dreaded to June.
The only thing that Julie would have been visualising would have been an easy life at Goldhanger,then WHF as " lady of the manor ". Her insecurity was such, that she actually thought that she was the only one for Jeremy,,and when that went belly-up,,out came the dirty washing. Just as well he found out how nasty people could be if they didn't get their own way.
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But he had moved out to Goldhanger..wasn't there similar discussions in the David Bain case. As for the funerals I have seen a video of Jeremy exiting through a lychgate with Julie at Tolleshunt D'Arcy but admittedly I'm having a hard time of locating that particular clip.
Eh? So because there is video footage it means that he organised for the funerals to be filmed? What does his moving to Goldhanger have to do with anything?? Just because he didn't live at WHF doesn't mean it's not his family home!!!!! It's where he grew up, it's the 'family' home as as the surviving member of that family, it was HIS home and all that contained in it - WAS HIS!! He could take what he liked, when he liked and do with it as he liked and no one had the right to stop him.
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Eh? So because there is video footage it means that he organised for the funerals to be filmed? What does his moving to Goldhanger have to do with anything?? Just because he didn't live at WHF doesn't mean it's not his family home!!!!! It's where he grew up, it's the 'family' home as as the surviving member of that family, it was HIS home and all that contained in it - WAS HIS!! He could take what he liked, when he liked and do with it as he liked and no one had the right to stop him.
After the conviction they did because he has disinherited himself through his crimes. I'm sure Petey will point us to the law on this point.
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Do we have any psychiatrists here who know anything about catathymic crisis?http://jameslbruno.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/an-open-letter-to-william-bradford.html
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After the conviction they did because he has disinherited himself through his crimes. I'm sure Petey will point us to the law on this point.
It's correct that you relinquish everything if you've committed a crime such as murder,but-------------Jeremy has been wrongly convicted,along with the fact that he hasn't,and won't give up on his plea of innocence,,and to see justice done.
Apart from yourself,,others who see him as guilty are noteable by their absence. Strange that.
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A conviction secured by relatives on the make, who stood to rob poor Jeremy of everything in law he was entitled to...
Shame on the lot of them, and the system that went along with orchestrating this miscarriage of justice...
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After the conviction they did because he has disinherited himself through his crimes. I'm sure Petey will point us to the law on this point.
I don't profess to be an expert in this area of law, but it is correct that you forfeit your right to inherit from the will of a person you are convicted of murdering.
It has caused much debate over the years, with regards whether heirs have a claim instead. There is also debate regarding 'lesser' crimes such as whether can benefit if guilty of manslaughter by diminished responsibility.
The position is much clearer in America, where they have 'Slayer's Rule' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slayer_rule
A similar rule has been proposed and debated to be introduced in England.
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I stumbled on the theory of catathymic crisis quite by accident after researching the cases of William Bradford Bishop and David Bain,but it does explain unerringly what might be going on in a seemingly calm outward exterior.http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02803681
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Relatives, orchestrated a plan to put Jeremy in the frame as being responsible for having committed these murders, when if truth be known, relatives of an accused would normally be rallying around them to help establish their innocence - whereas, inheritance seems to be to the fore in the circumstances of this case...
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I stumbled on the theory of catathymic crisis quite by accident after researching the cases of William Bradford Bishop and David Bain,but it does explain unerringly what might be going on in a seemingly calm outward exterior.http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02803681
That accounts for most people,Steve,,but doesn't necessarily mean that they'll go on to commit murder.
We can all have such thoughts,but they don't amount to anything. This is all it is------------a theory.
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Mike the worst thing Jeremy was deprived of was his freedom :( money and material things are not everything well I suppose they are to some people.
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That accounts for most people,Steve,,but doesn't necessarily mean that they'll go on to commit murder.
We can all have such thoughts,but they don't amount to anything. This is all it is------------a theory.
Jeremy Bamber,David Bain,William Bradford Bishop..in their minds their family doesn't deserve to live..they are the only ones who do..think of the note typed on the computer in the Bain case,and afterwards they put on a show but they possess an inner calm as the horrible deeds have been accomplished. This is an insight to Jeremy Bamber's mind on the occasion of the funerals.
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steve uk from what I have read Jeremy did not put the type of show on at his trial that you are indicating infact he would have faired much better if he had done a Julie and never stopped crying.
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steve uk from what I have read Jeremy did not put the type of show on at his trial that you are indicating infact he would have faired much better if he had done a Julie and never stopped crying.
He broke down as the cortege passed the television cameras.
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He broke down as the cortege passed the television cameras.
If Jeremys reaction was genuine one, at which do you think he was entitled to break down?
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steve uk I am not talking about the funeral but the actual trial if he was as guilty and as clever as you say he was he would have been sobbing his heart out like Julie at every question put to him.
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If Jeremys reaction was genuine one, at which do you think he was entitled to break down?
Unfortunately it's a pattern of behaviour in Jeremy's case where he fits the action to the moment,whether it's playing childish pranks on friends,buying Julie red roses or shooting defenceless six year-old boys in the back of the head..
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steve shame on Julie Mugford for not preventing Jeremy shooting defenceless young 6 year olds in the back of the head we all know she could not as Jeremy was not responsible for the murders at WHF give me some concrete evidence other than her statement which is questionable and the silencer which is very questionable everything else you say is pure hearsay or Julie's words.Come up with something more tangible other than a total assassination on Jeremy Bamber's character Lets hear about Julie's character for a change from you. Lets not forget Julie came out of this dreadful tragedy quite well!!!
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steve shame on Julie Mugford for not preventing Jeremy shooting defenceless young 6 year olds in the back of the head we all know she could not as Jeremy was not responsible for the murders at WHF give me some concrete evidence other than her statement which is questionable and the silencer which is very questionable everything else you say is pure hearsay or Julie's words.Come up with something more tangible other than a total assassination on Jeremy Bamber's character Lets hear about Julie's character for a change from you. Lets not forget Julie came out of this dreadful tragedy quite well!!!
25 grand more than Jeremy did,Susan. Imagine losing your life on hearsay and conjecture.
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I stumbled on the theory of catathymic crisis quite by accident after researching the cases of William Bradford Bishop and David Bain,but it does explain unerringly what might be going on in a seemingly calm outward exterior.http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02803681
Catathymic crisis arises from intolerable tension. Whilst I'm convinced that you trawl through books on psychology in order to lay accusations at Jeremy's feet I think you need to tke a long hard look at what had befallen Sheila during the last 18 weeks of her life and ask yourself, given her mental fragility, just how much more she could take.
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.............. This is an insight to Jeremy Bamber's mind on the occasion of the funerals.
NO, Steve, this is an insight to how YOU think Jeremy's mind was on the occasion of the funerals. Interesting, isn't it, that you believe the owner of the restaurant who gave an objective view of how Jeremy's behaviour was, in your opinion knows less about him than you.
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Hello april what confuses me Jeremy Bamber is serving a life sentence for murdering his family. What more does steve want the hatred he has towards Jeremy is uncanny. Whilst I believe Jeremy to be innocent I have no hatred to Julie or anyone else who may have been responsible for his incarceration. I know steve is not Julie but I could understand his posts more if he were.
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Hello april what confuses me Jeremy Bamber is serving a life sentence for murdering his family. What more does steve want the hatred he has towards Jeremy is uncanny. Whilst I believe Jeremy to be innocent I have no hatred to Julie or anyone else who may have been responsible for his incarceration. I know steve is not Julie but I could understand his posts more if he were.
Susan HELLO :) I agree entirely that the hatred Steve seems to bear towards Jeremy is out of all proportion given that Steve doesn't know him. According to Steve, what most of us might call a watery grin/smile is a smirk which shows his guilt, when you suggested that he would have done better to have cried, Steve has it that when he does, it's done for effect. I wonder, is it Jeremy's or Steve's credibility which is questionable.
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steve uk I am not talking about the funeral but the actual trial if he was as guilty and as clever as you say he was he would have been sobbing his heart out like Julie at every question put to him.
No because his Gresham's public school training kicked in and he kept his cool in a similar male dominated public school environment.
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Catathymic crisis arises from intolerable tension. Whilst I'm convinced that you trawl through books on psychology in order to lay accusations at Jeremy's feet I think you need to tke a long hard look at what had befallen Sheila during the last 18 weeks of her life and ask yourself, given her mental fragility, just how much more she could take.
No it was Jeremy on the tractor which finally broke him as he resented every furrowed furlong in an environment which was alien to him. He had withdrawal symptoms from the Antipodean sun and longed to be back in a beach setting free and unfettered from a mad family as he saw them all..
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Hello april what confuses me Jeremy Bamber is serving a life sentence for murdering his family. What more does steve want the hatred he has towards Jeremy is uncanny. Whilst I believe Jeremy to be innocent I have no hatred to Julie or anyone else who may have been responsible for his incarceration. I know steve is not Julie but I could understand his posts more if he were.
I reiterate I have no personal hatred of Jeremy Bamber:only his crimes. He should be placed in an environment which facilitates rehabilitation as is the case with some Norwegian murderers.http://youtu.be/I6V_QiOa2Jo
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steve I am fully aware that some children are brought up to keep a stiff upper lip exactly like Wills and Harry did at their dear Mothers funeral but had Jeremy been guilty he would have used is acting skills (you are always quoting that he said he should have been an actor) and sobbed and been sad to fool the Jury from what I have read his attitude at trial was one of a man so complacent about his own innocence he felt he had no need to act and fool anyone as he knew the evidence against was to say the least weak. Julie on the other hand sobbed her heart out to the point she could hardly be questioned yet she identified these two little 6 year boys at the morgue knowing according to her goodself Jeremy was responsible and did not shed a tear and went off to share his bed and eat drink and be merry.
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No it was Jeremy on the tractor which finally broke him as he resented every furrowed furlong in an environment which was alien to him. He had withdrawal symptoms from the Antipodean sun and longed to be back in a beach setting free and unfettered from a mad family as he saw them all..
Steve,I doubt he'd have been longing for another trip to the Antipodes if he supposedly committed robbery there,as he wouldn't be allowed back in. He'd have been arrested.So what you're saying,you haven't put much thought into that side of things. Didn't Jeremy allegedly leave the place in a hurry.?
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No it was Jeremy on the tractor which finally broke him as he resented every furrowed furlong in an environment which was alien to him. He had withdrawal symptoms from the Antipodean sun and longed to be back in a beach setting free and unfettered from a mad family as he saw them all..
NO Steve, in the continuing absence of concrete evidence, this is just a psychologically uneducated theory of what YOU believe was going on in his mind.
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steve please don't suggest Scotland again for all Cat A prisoners we are very happy as we are ;D If Jeremy laughs he is showing guilt if Jeremy cries he is putting it on as far as you are concerned he can do nothing right would you be happy if he was sent to a remote Scottish Island for the remainder of his life.
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steve I am fully aware that some children are brought up to keep a stiff upper lip exactly like Wills and Harry did at their dear Mothers funeral but had Jeremy been guilty he would have used is acting skills (you are always quoting that he said he should have been an actor) and sobbed and been sad to fool the Jury from what I have read his attitude at trial was one of a man so complacent about his own innocence he felt he had no need to act and fool anyone as he knew the evidence against was to say the least weak. Julie on the other hand sobbed her heart out to the point she could hardly be questioned yet she identified these two little 6 year boys at the morgue knowing according to her goodself Jeremy was responsible and did not shed a tear and went off to share his bed and eat drink and be merry.
I might quote Pascal here: "The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing". Of course it's earth shattering to think Julie was forewarned of the murders and who could pretend otherwise that it leaves an unerasable scar on many people's lives. But what has happened has happened and if people can get on with their own lives whether it be Colin,Julie or Jeremy then I think they should be given the chance to.
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steve please don't suggest Scotland again for all Cat A prisoners we are very happy as we are ;D If Jeremy laughs he is showing guilt if Jeremy cries he is putting it on as far as you are concerned he can do nothing right would you be happy if he was sent to a remote Scottish Island for the remainder of his life.
Yes indeed I would in an environment where Jeremy is not in daily fear of being attacked as a child murderer,and I refer you to the video posted above.
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Steve,I doubt he'd have been longing for another trip to the Antipodes if he supposedly committed robbery there,as he wouldn't be allowed back in. He'd have been arrested.So what you're saying,you haven't put much thought into that side of things. Didn't Jeremy allegedly leave the place in a hurry.?
Well that was New Zealand wasn't it lookout not Sydney or the Gold Coast. In reality he opted for the south of France.
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steve please don't suggest Scotland again for all Cat A prisoners we are very happy as we are ;D If Jeremy laughs he is showing guilt if Jeremy cries he is putting it on as far as you are concerned he can do nothing right would you be happy if he was sent to a remote Scottish Island for the remainder of his life.
Susan, I believe that whilst Jeremy lives behind bars there will always be the question of the honesty of the part played by Julie Mugford in putting him there.
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I might quote Pascal here: "The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing". Of course it's earth shattering to think Julie was forewarned of the murders and who could pretend otherwise that it leaves an unerasable scar on many people's lives. But what has happened has happened and if people can get on with their own lives whether it be Colin,Julie or Jeremy then I think they should be given the chance to.
The Duchess of Windsor had published a ghost written book entitled "The Heart Has Its Reasons".
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steve if Julie knew of Jeremy's intentions to murder his entire family two of them being little 6 year old boys (which I don't think she did) I would have thought her life may have been in danger to condone such an heinous crime by carrying on being his sexual partner and taking money from him towards her trip to Malta dining, drinking with him Society would not look to kindly on her if they knew she could have prevented the murders I would have to say she was as guilty as him.
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steve if Julie knew of Jeremy's intentions to murder his entire family two of them being little 6 year old boys (which I don't think she did) I would have thought her life may have been in danger to condone such an heinous crime by carrying on being his sexual partner and taking money from him towards her trip to Malta dining, drinking with him Society would not look to kindly on her if they knew she could have prevented the murders I would have to say she was as guilty as him.
He didn't go to Malta with her,but we have to take things as they are in life as in the Jeremy Bamber case and hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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steve if Julie knew of Jeremy's intentions to murder his entire family two of them being little 6 year old boys (which I don't think she did) I would have thought her life may have been in danger to condone such an heinous crime by carrying on being his sexual partner and taking money from him towards her trip to Malta dining, drinking with him Society would not look to kindly on her if they knew she could have prevented the murders I would have to say she was as guilty as him.
Very good point you've just made Susan. We've spoken at length about her ability to share a bed with someone who planned to and killed his entire family but we've never talked about how it might FEEL. Shame, remorse and guilt don't seem to have been part of the equation. Did she see herself as being another Bonnie (as in......and Clyde). Might the knowledge she held perhaps add spice to their sex life, or was the thought of her beau coming in to a fortune that she could help him spend a thrill of such orgasmic proportions that she put the deed from her mind, which she seems to have done very successfully until he dumped her.
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Very good point you've just made Susan. We've spoken at length about her ability to share a bed with someone who planned to and killed his entire family but we've never talked about how it might FEEL. Shame, remorse and guilt don't seem to have been part of the equation. Did she see herself as being another Bonnie (as in......and Clyde). Might the knowledge she held perhaps add spice to their sex life, or was the thought of her beau coming in to a fortune that she could help him spend a thrill of such orgasmic proportions that she put the deed from her mind.
..or did it ever cross her mind that this immature juvenile whose angelic face stared out of the Jubilee photograph could possibly harbour the thoughts of a serial murderer,when he had his bread buttered on both sides..
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april dear what a very well worded graphic post but sorry to throw a spanner into the works but none of that applied other than she looked forward to being the next Lady of the Manor ;D because she did not suspect Jeremy of murdering his family till he had dumped her then as we all know a woman scorned is dangerous. Had Jeremy Bamber murdered his entire family he would not have been stupid enough to tell her and if he had he would have kept her close and perhaps even married her well not too sure about the last bit.
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steve angelic little Jeremy told her of his intentions and actually said "tonights the night" after which she went back to sleep and never gave it another thought :'( Think he buttered her bread quite well as well he was very kind to her and how did she repay him.
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april dear what a very well worded graphic post but sorry to throw a spanner into the works but none of that applied other than she looked forward to being the next Lady of the Manor ;D because she did not suspect Jeremy of murdering his family till he had dumped her then as we all know a woman scorned is dangerous. Had Jeremy Bamber murdered his entire family he would not have been stupid enough to tell her and if he had he would have kept her close and perhaps even married her well not too sure about the last bit.
In the David Bain case a Police Officer is reported to have heard "I shot the prick" in the emergency call pertaining to that case. Some friends of Mr. Bain's also recall a conversation where he debated whether he could molest a woman on his paper round and use this as an alibi to get away with his crime.
Serial killers have speculated about their crimes,it's just that Julie didn't take him seriously and I can't blight the rest of her life as some wish to do here by making an error of judgement.
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steve angelic little Jeremy told her of his intentions and actually said "tonights the night" after which she went back to sleep and never gave it another thought :'( Think he buttered her bread quite well as well he was very kind to her and how did she repay him.
Julie was worn out working all hours and didn't go back to sleep until Jeremy pestered her again with telephone call number 3..
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..or did it ever cross her mind that this immature juvenile whose angelic face stared out of the Jubilee photograph could possibly harbour the thoughts of a serial murderer,when he had his bread buttered on both sides..
...........and what was a so called intelligent woman doing with an immature juvenile with an angelic face. Please don't say she loved him because if they weren't on the same intellectual level love would quickly have waned, so we have to accept that for her it was sex and money all wrapped up in the form of a man she thought she could control, and if she was aware that she was brighter than him that's exactly what she'd have done.
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...........and what was a so called intelligent woman doing with an immature juvenile with an angelic face. Please don't say she loved him because if they weren't on the same intellectual level love would quickly have waned, so we have to accept that for her it was sex and money all wrapped up in the form of a man she thought she could control, and if she was aware that she was brighter than him that's exactly what she'd have done.
This wasn't a one night stand but a relationship covering the best part of two years. How could Julie possibly have known she had fallen in love with a serial killer..
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april I feel Julie was in the driving seat bet she got a shock when he told her the relationship was over how dare he she could not stand the thoughts of loosing control I seem to think she tried to smother him with a pillow saying if I can't have you nobody else can. I do declare what passion ;D Not surprised she is now doing charity work.
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steve you tell me how when the love of her life of 2 years was sentenced to life in prison she stood outside the Court room flashed her leg laughing suppose she was thinking of her £25.000 and never gave poor Jeremy another thought :'(
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steve I think she would have been more worn out after what she had been smoking and drinking all night she was quite fond of the wacky backy I am told.
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april I feel Julie was in the driving seat bet she got a shock when he told her the relationship was over how dare he she could not stand the thoughts of loosing control I seem to think she tried to smother him with a pillow saying if I can't have you nobody else can. I do declare what passion ;D Not surprised she is now doing charity work.
Hi Susan,,I might be speaking out of turn here,,but the latest brutal attack on a young mother was allegedly done by " her ex ",who pretty well must have said those same words," if I can't have you,nobody else is going to ". It would appear that this motive for killing,,stems from scorn,jealousy and immaturity. If Jeremy had been that way inclined,,he could easily have walloped Julie after the pillow scenario. So there's the difference straight away. Who was the most vicious.?
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This wasn't a one night stand but a relationship covering the best part of two years. How could Julie possibly have known she had fallen in love with a serial killer..
If, as she said, he told her he was thinking of it AND she's supposedly provided him with sleeping pills to subdue his father, there can be no shadow of doubt that she knew perfectly well what he was attempting to do.
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april I feel Julie was in the driving seat bet she got a shock when he told her the relationship was over how dare he she could not stand the thoughts of loosing control I seem to think she tried to smother him with a pillow saying if I can't have you nobody else can. I do declare what passion ;D Not surprised she is now doing charity work.
You're forgetting that Jeremy twisted her arm up her back..
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Hi lookout I did not know Jeremy of course but my perception of him when he was 24 was a rather immature guy maybe full of himself and quite vain I would think and we all know his behaviour left much to be desired at times same with Julie but she came over as a hard young lady who did not have the privileged upbringing Jeremy had and was an out and out survivor. I think Jeremy was easily led by her and his friends. I could never never imagine Jeremy Bamber to be a cold heartless murderer just not part of his makeup as I see it.
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steve a big difference trying to smother somebody and twisting their arm no comparison at all. She threw soap at him in the supermarket she could have taken his eye out quite a bad tempered young lady by the sound of it. Think he was very tolerant with her.
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Hi lookout I did not know Jeremy of course but my perception of him when he was 24 was a rather immature guy maybe full of himself and quite vain I would think and we all know his behaviour left much to be desired at times same with Julie but she came over as a hard young lady who did not have the privileged upbringing Jeremy had and was an out and out survivor. I think Jeremy was easily led by her and his friends. I could never never imagine Jeremy Bamber to be a cold heartless murderer just not part of his makeup as I see it.
Susan, my own experience of public school educated boys is that much earlier than most they acquire the manners/mannerisms of much older males which whilst making them appear to be streets ahead of the crowd hides that when it comes to being streetwise they are generations behind their comprehensive/grammer school counterparts who can run rings round them. I do wonder how he fitted with Julie's college buddies who would have been streets ahead of him intellectually. I wonder how he coped with deep and meaningful conversations about existentialism, the Enlightenment, Proust. I wouldn't mind betting that inbetween drinking and smoking spliffs some of them sharpened their intellectual knives on him if only to get one over his public school accent and obvious affluence.
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Hi lookout I did not know Jeremy of course but my perception of him when he was 24 was a rather immature guy maybe full of himself and quite vain I would think and we all know his behaviour left much to be desired at times same with Julie but she came over as a hard young lady who did not have the privileged upbringing Jeremy had and was an out and out survivor. I think Jeremy was easily led by her and his friends. I could never never imagine Jeremy Bamber to be a cold heartless murderer just not part of his makeup as I see it.
I agree with you Susan,,she was the " street-wise " one,not Jeremy,,and as you say he was easily led by her dominance in the relationship. She probably taught him all about sex as well.!
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Oh april what big words you use ;D get the gist of what you are saying and I would think that Julie's friends would just take the mick out of poor Jeremy and he would be totally out of his depth. He had to a certain extent led a very sheltered life as a young boy I believe Ralph would not allow him to mix with the local boys as he thought it was improper as he maybe employing some of them one day. When you think about it how sad but it still goes on sadly.
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Oh april what big words you use ;D get the gist of what you are saying and I would think that Julie's friends would just take the mick out of poor Jeremy and he would be totally out of his depth. He had to a certain extent led a very sheltered life as a young boy I believe Ralph would not allow him to mix with the local boys as he thought it was improper as he maybe employing some of them one day. When you think about it how sad but it still goes on sadly.
Susan, you have obviously not had a problem and have understood perfectly. You just repeated exactly what I meant :D :D :D Don't you think it's an irony that Nevill didn't believe it appropriate for him to mix with the locals when doing so may have equipped him better to cope with some of those he has to mix with now.
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Susan, you have obviously not had a problem and have understood perfectly. You just repeated exactly what I meant :D :D :D Don't you think it's an irony that Nevill didn't believe it appropriate for him to mix with the locals when doing so may have equipped him better to cope with some of those he has to mix with now.
Such a shame that Jeremy can't admit what he did,apologize to Colin and move on,but in our system of justice there's nowhere to move on to. Maybe the David Bain case has given Jeremy false hope. We badly need the Norwegian system here.
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Such a shame that Jeremy can't admit what he did,apologize to Colin and move on,but in our system of justice there's nowhere to move on to. Maybe the David Bain case has given Jeremy false hope. We badly need the Norwegian system here.
Well Steve, as for every action there is a consequence, Colin may at times have cause to reflect that had he and Sheila still been together there may not have been the tragedy which occurred. He did after all, originally believe Sheila to have done it. Perhaps holding Jeremy responsible means he can negate his own responsibility in what happened.
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Well Steve, as for every action there is a consequence, Colin may at times have cause to reflect that had he and Sheila still been together there may not have been the tragedy which occurred. He did after all, originally believe Sheila to have done it. Perhaps holding Jeremy responsible means he can negate his own responsibility in what happened.
I think Colin's initial remark was related to Sheila's own suicide. Colin bears no responsibility whatsoever for what happened to either Sheila or his sons,neither do any living persons who are left behind to pick up the pieces of a suicide victim.
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After the conviction they did because he has disinherited himself through his crimes. I'm sure Petey will point us to the law on this point.
We weren't talking about 'after' the conviction!!
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Jeremy Bamber,David Bain,William Bradford Bishop..in their minds their family doesn't deserve to live..they are the only ones who do..think of the note typed on the computer in the Bain case,and afterwards they put on a show but they possess an inner calm as the horrible deeds have been accomplished. This is an insight to Jeremy Bamber's mind on the occasion of the funerals.
No it isn't - it's just your opinion and arm chair psychology!
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We weren't talking about 'after' the conviction!!
But he has been convicted so it's a bit hollow for the Jeremy supporters to hark on about a one month interval between the murders and Jeremy's arrest. Jeremy took the lion's share of the valuables anyway and if I recall would not even allow Pamela a keepsake ring from her sister June.
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He broke down as the cortege passed the television cameras.
Again, 'your opinion'
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I think Colin's initial remark was related to Sheila's own suicide. Colin bears no responsibility whatsoever for what happened to either Sheila or his sons,neither do any living persons who are left behind to pick up the pieces of a suicide victim.
Whilst that may be fact I can't deny, Steve, I have yet to find ANYONE who is left behind after someones suicide, who hasn't wondered if there was something they could have done to prevent it.
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But he has been convicted so it's a bit hollow for the Jeremy supporters to hark on about a one month interval between the murders and Jeremy's arrest. Jeremy took the lion's share of the valuables anyway and if I recall would not even allow Pamela a keepsake ring from her sister June.
But she took the jewellery anyway. That's what she was in the process of doing when they said they found the silencer. It was not hers to take.
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In the David Bain case a Police Officer is reported to have heard "I shot the prick" in the emergency call pertaining to that case. Some friends of Mr. Bain's also recall a conversation where he debated whether he could molest a woman on his paper round and use this as an alibi to get away with his crime.
Serial killers have speculated about their crimes,it's just that Julie didn't take him seriously and I can't blight the rest of her life as some wish to do here by making an error of judgement.
Why are you keep talking about David Bain?? Just because one thing happened in one case, it doesn't follow that it HAS ro happen in another and I will repeat!! David Bain was AQUITTED ON APPEAL!!
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Why are you keep talking about David Bain?? Just because one thing happened in one case, it doesn't follow that it HAS ro happen in another and I will repeat!! David Bain was AQUITTED ON APPEAL!!
No he had a retrial,but it's still a terrifying thought..
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No he had a retrial,but it's still a terrifying thought..
Steven I wonder what kind of stand you'd take if Jeremy was released. Having been so vociferous in your belief in his guilt, it's hard to believe that you'd retreat quietly and allow him to lead an unhindered life.
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No he had a retrial,but it's still a terrifying thought..
He was still aquitted but has no real baring here other than there are a few similarities.
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Steven I wonder what kind of stand you'd take if Jeremy was released. Having been so vociferous in your belief in his guilt, it's hard to believe that you'd retreat quietly and allow him to lead an unhindered life.
David Bain was judged to have served his time and presumably not be a risk in reoffending,as to my mind he has killed the people he wanted to. Jeremy on the other hand had his tariff increased and his surviving relatives are living in fear lest he reappear on The Stumbles with a rifle in his hand..
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Steven I wonder what kind of stand you'd take if Jeremy was released. Having been so vociferous in your belief in his guilt, it's hard to believe that you'd retreat quietly and allow him to lead an unhindered life.
David Bain was judged to have served his time and presumably not be a risk in reoffending,as to my mind he has killed the people he wanted to. Jeremy on the other hand had his tariff increased and his surviving relatives are living in fear lest he reappear on The Stumbles with a rifle in his hand..
How does that response address my original observation?
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He should be allowed to serve his time in a prison based on the Norwegian model. Of course he can never be let out because in my opinion he's suffering from catathymic crisis,where a serial killer never reaches the fifth stage..http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02803681
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He should be allowed to serve his time in a prison based on the Norwegian model. Of course he can never be let out because in my opinion he's suffering from catathymic crisis,where a serial killer never reaches the fifth stage..http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02803681
Oh Steve,,you've found a new diagnosis. I can't figure out why 27 psychiatrists/psychologists and mental health workers didn't pick up on that.
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Oh Steve,,you've found a new diagnosis. I can't figure out why 27 psychiatrists/psychologists and mental health workers didn't pick up on that.
I know..and I'm giving it you for free.
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He should be allowed to serve his time in a prison based on the Norwegian model. Of course he can never be let out because in my opinion he's suffering from catathymic crisis,where a serial killer never reaches the fifth stage..http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02803681
Steve, every time you resort to the use of psychology it becomes apparent that it's something about which you know VERY little. Two days ago you had probably never heard of catathymic crisis NOW you'd have us believe that you're a world expert.
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I know..and I'm giving it you for free.
;D ;D ;D ;D You're a gas,Steve.
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;D ;D ;D ;D You're a gas,Steve.
Lookout, can it possibly be HOT AIR to which you refer :D :D :D :D :D
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Lookout, can it possibly be HOT AIR to which you refer :D :D :D :D :D
Something like that,April. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Well this thread is about Jeremy's mental state..I'm only putting something out there and bringing the thread back on track.
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Well this thread is about Jeremy's mental state..I'm only putting something out there and bringing the thread back on track.
I'll let you have that one, Steve :D :D :-*
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Well this thread is about Jeremy's mental state..I'm only putting something out there and bringing the thread back on track.
Whatever you say yourself,Steve. :)
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Another similar case - was this guy psychotic or as some believe, a control freak?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-20123158
Interestingly, he was sentenced (manslaughter) for 30 years and is serving his sentence in 'Full Sutton'
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Morning steve
If Jeremy Bamber is released from prison why on earth would the surviving relatives live in fear of him coming after them with a rifle. Do they feel guilty with regard to his incareration. When Jeremy is released the only thing he will be interested in is trying to recover what was rightfully his and nothing more. I am still trying to figure out why you would think they are in fear of Jeremy being released do they feel they have wronged him in someway and he wants revenge.
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Another similar case - was this guy psychotic or as some believe, a control freak?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-20123158
Interestingly, he was sentenced (manslaughter) for 30 years and is serving his sentence in 'Full Sutton'
Hi Caroline,,I wonder why the guy isn't in Ashworth.? Detained under the Mental Health Act.?
Had Sheila have lived,,she too would have been in a secure " institution ".
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Hi Caroline,,I wonder why the guy isn't in Ashworth.? Detained under the Mental Health Act.?
Had Sheila have lived,,she too would have been in a secure " institution ".
Hi Lookout, I think it was because his psychosis was deemed to be a one off - put down to the fact that he had been driving the previous day for over 24 hours straight and he was suffering from stress and depression. Interestingly, he killed the only other man in the group first so there was an element of planning.
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Hi Lookout, I think it was because his psychosis was deemed to be a one off - put down to the fact that he had been driving the previous day for over 24 hours straight and he was suffering from stress and depression. Interestingly, he killed the only other man in the group first so there was an element of planning.
Yes,of course,Caroline. This is why it annoys me that no time of death was put on the bodies at WHF. Such an important factor in a mass murder. Just why was that never done.?
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Susan,the relatives aren't frightened that Jeremy would go after them with a rifle,they are frightened he would go after them for HIS money! During a previous appeal,the Boutflours farm went up for sale and allegedly they were planning to go to the Isle of Man. So much for wanting to keep the Speakman estate intact eh? !!
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Susan,the relatives aren't frightened that Jeremy would go after them with a rifle,they are frightened he would go after them for HIS money! During a previous appeal,the Boutflours farm went up for sale and allegedly they were planning to go to the Isle of Man. So much for wanting to keep the Speakman estate intact eh? !!
Yes,,I thought that was more to the point,tyler. My word,,how can they live in peace knowing that they " assisted " in sending an innocent man to prison.?
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Hi lookout money,possessions and power are far more important to some people than a man's freedom and rights. Anyone who could do that are people without a soul and they will have to meet their maker at some stage.
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Hi lookout money,possessions and power are far more important to some people than a man's freedom and rights. Anyone who could do that are people without a soul and they will have to meet their maker at some stage.
I just think it's downright disgusting,Susan. That they blatantly blamed him ( hours after the murders might I add ) then for the next 12 months or so,,the mud-slinging and accusations behind Jeremys' back. They went to great lengths to make sure they got what would have been eventually theirs,but were too impatient to wait,,and hated the thought of a " cuckoo " having " what should be theirs ".Despicable.
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lookout remember the saying "what goes around comes around" and take it from me Jeremy Bamber will have his day. He has tremendous public support and many local people have changed their stance from guilty to not guilty.
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lookout remember the saying "what goes around comes around" and take it from me Jeremy Bamber will have his day. He has tremendous public support and many local people have changed their stance from guilty to not guilty.
Yes,Susan,,things have changed since the public were made aware of MOJ's in general,,but Jeremys' case has taken on a new awareness where you have not only suspicion toward the motives of the family,,which the jury didn't know of,,,but also police corruption which is highlighted today in the newspapers.
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lookout who would ever have thought that such corruption could be going on in our major police forces it will all come out now as people will dig and dig till the truth is out. We the public deserve that and so do the MOJ's cases.
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lookout who would ever have thought that such corruption could be going on in our major police forces it will all come out now as people will dig and dig till the truth is out. We the public deserve that and so do the MOJ's cases.
Indeed people deserve to know,Susan. These cases,,like Jeremys',,,go on and on,conveniently so, that those officers concerned make sure that their pension is safe for later. This is what's happening. All those who were concerned in the Bamber case will have retired or died,,so they don't care.
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lookout it only takes one Officer to decide to come clean and spill the beans and this can happen.
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lookout it only takes one Officer to decide to come clean and spill the beans and this can happen.
Particularly one with nothing to lose,,or who has a grudge against someone.
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Particularly one with nothing to lose,,or who has a grudge against someone.
Lookout/Susan, sooner or later, thieves fall out. Let's hope the same applies to cops who do cover ups.
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............. his surviving relatives are living in fear lest he reappear on The Stumbles with a rifle in his hand..
Steve, I feel certain that you know as well as I that the above statement is absolute BALLCOCKS, starting with the very real possibility that Jeremy no longer has any relatives. The last ones who spring to mind to bring about the downfall of a family member were the family of Ann Boleyn and had it been possible for the Boutflour/Eatons to bring about Jeremy's execution, I have little doubt that they would have done so. It is generally accepted that families will work hard to defend one of their own but sadly, Jeremy was probably never accepted by the wider family as one of their own. I wonder how they would have gone about organizing things had the twins lived and the bulk of what they had believed to be theirs had gone out of "family" hands in all directions.
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Hello april think tyler explained quite brilliantly what the rellies fear about Jeremy being released. Hope steve reads her post.
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Hello april think tyler explained quite brilliantly what the rellies fear about Jeremy being released. Hope steve reads her post.
He's bound to do,Susan,,if only with one of his inimitable answers. :-[
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april steve is never short of an answer even if it contradicts a previous one he wont be beat ;D ;D ;D
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Lookout/Susan, sooner or later, thieves fall out. Let's hope the same applies to cops who do cover ups.
Indeed,April,,there's no honesty among thieves,,as has already proved, 10 years after the tragedy,they were still arguing over money.
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Yes indeed I would in an environment where Jeremy is not in daily fear of being attacked as a child murderer,and I refer you to the video posted above.
Steve, I wonder why, with your unparallelled vitriol regading Jeremy, you would care so much about removing him to a safer environment, unless you feel about him the way I feel anout Ian Brady, that he should be forced to stay alive.
I think your claim that he lives in "daily fear of being attacked as a child murderer" is like many of your other claims of him, wishful thinking. I think it highly likely that both staff and "residents" believe him to be innocent. Why else would he be recommended for down grade of status.
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What steve is saying is total nonsense about jeremy going to settle a score if released, its very easy to ham up such claims and be believed, hugely amplified nonsense, i feel they are short of cash thats my take .
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What steve is saying is total nonsense about jeremy going to settle a score if released, its very easy to ham up such claims and be believed, hugely amplified nonsense, i feel they are short of cash thats my take .
Mertol, I just LOVE the expression "hugely ampliflied nonsense", and it is totally appropriate. I wouldn't want to try to second guess what Jeremy would want to do when/if released because I can't begin to imagine what it must feel like to be in his position. I'm not entirely convinced that their financial gains have bought them unalloyed joy.
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Hi Patti,
Managed to get a blow up of your feather!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Patti,
Managed to get a blow up of your feather!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thank you Caroline, you are a star...but to be perfectly honest I am none the wiser....and still have no idea what is attached to it...it looks a bit pink in the middle...Any ideas? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Its a coincidence I think. I was reading what RB had said about a report that Jeremy had been seen with a guy with a feather in his ear....A few minutes later I noticed the feather on the kitchen table and I supposed tried to put two and two together....and let my imagination run a tad wild. :-\ :-[
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Morning april it sounds to me that steve is suggesting Jeremy be sent to a remote island probably Scotland for his own safety so he must be thinking of sending him there alone. :'(
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Morning Patti with regard to the feather I think it is no more than two young guys larking around and Jeremy took the feather just without any thought and left it on the table at the farm. I don't see any significance at all maybe he gave it to the twins nothing sinister happening at all.
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Morning Patti with regard to the feather I think it is no more than two young guys larking around and Jeremy took the feather just without any thought and left it on the table at the farm. I don't see any significance at all maybe he gave it to the twins nothing sinister happening at all.
Susan HELLO :) I'm inclined to agree with you. "Man with feather behind ear" COULD have been one of the travelling community who live in and around Tiptree who MAY have presented his feather to the twins if they were fascinated by it but I'm more inclined to think it was one of those treasures so frequently found by small boys when they're out and about.
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Morning april good thinking could have belonged to one of the travelling community and as you said a find by one of the twins no more than that. Certainly no connection to the murders IMO.
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Good morning April/Susan,,,I digress somewhat but neverthless it still has a bearing directly/indirectly with this case.
28 years later-----------------------there is now a blood-test which tells doctors if women are suffering from post-natal depression,,and also those who have a pre-disposition to it. This proves how very little,if anything,was known of this hormonal imbalance in 1985,,and its consequences if not treated.
Women DO feel suicidal,,and also have irrational thoughts about their babies,,such as killing them through feelings of hopelessness,,thinking the child would be better off out of a situation.
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Susan, you're up with the Lark! Do you think in your wildest dreams it could be a CUckoo feather, specifically weighted down to have its photo taken for posterity? Maybe an ornithologist, or perhaps the ubiquitous Steve can satisfy us on this question?
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Susan, you're up with the Lark! Do you think in your wildest dreams it could be a CUckoo feather, specifically weighted down to have its photo taken for posterity? Maybe an ornithologist, or perhaps the ubiquitous Steve can satisfy us on this question?
Hey,,it looks like a cuckoo feather with the stripes.Must google it to make sure. I hope it wasn't a " calling card ".!
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Hey,,it looks like a cuckoo feather with the stripes.Must google it to make sure. I hope it wasn't a " calling card ".!
Were any birds resident at WH or neighbouring farms? Failing that there would be plenty that occupied the airspace above it :D
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Morning campion I am always up with the Lark 5.30 a.m. best time of the day. Do you think if it is a cuckoo feather it was given to Jeremy instead of a birthday card ;D ;D ;D ;D steve will know the answer if not he will find one ;D ;D ;D he will skim read a book.
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Were any birds resident at WH or neighbouring farms? Failing that there would be plenty that occupied the airspace above it :D
There'd be plenty of birds around on farmland. Cuckoos usually by May,I think.It could have come from a shooting party at some time.
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Steve, I feel certain that you know as well as I that the above statement is absolute BALLCOCKS, starting with the very real possibility that Jeremy no longer has any relatives. The last ones who spring to mind to bring about the downfall of a family member were the family of Ann Boleyn and had it been possible for the Boutflour/Eatons to bring about Jeremy's execution, I have little doubt that they would have done so. It is generally accepted that families will work hard to defend one of their own but sadly, Jeremy was probably never accepted by the wider family as one of their own. I wonder how they would have gone about organizing things had the twins lived and the bulk of what they had believed to be theirs had gone out of "family" hands in all directions.
They would have got their share of the Speakman estate even had Jeremy not been convicted. I'm of the same opinion as Jeremy's natural father that he had a good start in life and he just blew it.
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They would have got their share of the Speakman estate even had Jeremy not been convicted. I'm of the same opinion as Jeremy's natural father that he had a good start in life and he just blew it.
April is referring to the Bamber estate, not the Speakman - although Jeremy 'would/should' have been untitled to to his share also. However, circumstances 'intervened'!!
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April is referring to the Bamber estate, not the Speakman - although Jeremy 'would/should' have been untitled to to his share also. However, circumstances 'intervened'!!
Well I meant that the motivation behind the relatives' actions was to catch a killer and was not financially driven.
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They would have got their share of the Speakman estate even had Jeremy not been convicted. I'm of the same opinion as Jeremy's natural father that he had a good start in life and he just blew it.
Steve,,I'm afraid that Jeremys' natural father was another one who was frightened in case he lost his " grace and favour home ".
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April is referring to the Bamber estate, not the Speakman - although Jeremy 'would/should' have been untitled to to his share also. However, circumstances 'intervened'!!
Thanks forn that Caroline :) How come you realized what I meant and Steve didn't? ???
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Steve,,I'm afraid that Jeremys' natural father was another one who was frightened in case he lost his " grace and favour home ".
That's possible lookout. I'm not a Royalist and I can't help but think much grief would have been spared had Juliet kept the baby and sod royal protocol..
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Thanks forn that Caroline :) How come you realized what I meant and Steve didn't? ???
It's almost cherry picking season ;) ;)
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That's possible lookout. I'm not a Royalist and I can't help but think much grief would have been spared had Juliet kept the baby and sod royal protocol..
As they married anyway AND went on to have more children, I fail to see why they couldn't have kept him, however they weren't the first or the last parents to give away an inconvenient child, then go on to marry and have more.............and I don't know the full circumstances.
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As they married anyway AND went on to have more children, I fail to see why they couldn't have kept him, however they weren't the first or the last parents to give away an inconvenient child, then go on to marry and have more.............and I don't know the full circumstances.
Hi april, it was very stronglt not done to keep a child born 'out of wedlock' back then unless they had a shotgun wedding......wasn't he married to someone else at the time? Our culture has changed out of all recognition since that time, as you know ;D
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That's possible lookout. I'm not a Royalist and I can't help but think much grief would have been spared had Juliet kept the baby and sod royal protocol..
Yes,Steve,the " neighbours " wouldn't have been best pleased.
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Well I meant that the motivation behind the relatives' actions was to catch a killer and was not financially driven.
How do you know for certain that their motives were so clear cut? That there was no blurring between the two examples you have given?
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How do you know for certain that their motives were so clear cut? That there was no blurring between the two examples you have given?
I don't for sure Roch but Ann Eaton twigged Jeremy's cat and mouse antics after the Osea Road robbery,there was the incident where he sprayed a neighbour's field with chemicals,the unexpected birthday card,the offer of sunbed,the hint that they would both be working together in the not so distant future as joint owners of the caravan park..
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They would have got their share of the Speakman estate even had Jeremy not been convicted. I'm of the same opinion as Jeremy's natural father that he had a good start in life and he just blew it.
Well I meant that the motivation behind the relatives' actions was to catch a killer and was not financially driven.
As you've developed the avoiding tactic of diverting attention away from what you've previously said, I have little idea of how your post on motivation in any way relates to the Speakman estate, even less where Jeremy's biological father comes into the equation. I am really interest to know from which viewpoint you have managed to ascertain that the rellies motive wasn't financially driven.
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I don't for sure Roch but Ann Eaton twigged Jeremy's cat and mouse antics after the Osea Road robbery,there was the incident where he sprayed a neighbour's field with chemicals,the unexpected birthday card,the offer of sunbed,the hint that they would both be working together in the not so distant future as joint owners of the caravan park..
They were already working at the caravan park together. The relatives had no affection for Jeremy which is evident because even acts of kindess were met with their suspicions - a birthdays card, an offer of use of his sunbed, the flowers he sent Ann. Yep, they all point to the acts of a cunning killer ::) ::) ::). The chemical incident was an ACCIDENT!!
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I don't for sure Roch but Ann Eaton twigged Jeremy's cat and mouse antics after the Osea Road robbery,there was the incident where he sprayed a neighbour's field with chemicals,the unexpected birthday card,the offer of sunbed,the hint that they would both be working together in the not so distant future as joint owners of the caravan park..
If you recall RWBs "diary" in which he states "How I loathe that boy" it seems highly likely that he'd indoctrinated his family with his own feelings and had caused them to mistrust everything that Jeremy ever did and any kindness on his part was treated with contempt.
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They were already working at the caravan park together. The relatives had no affection for Jeremy which is evident because even acts of kindess were met with their suspicions - a birthdays card, an offer of use of his sunbed, the flowers he sent Ann. Yep, they all point to the acts of a cunning killer ::) ::) ::). The chemical incident was an ACCIDENT!!
Yes it all was wasn't it,the whole tragic affair. Jeremy was continually testing the boundaries of his parents' discipline once he had returned for good from his Antipodean adventures,in a way he would never have dared at 8 years old when he was sent away to boarding school. I see many parallels with the David Bain case:the son who wanted it all.
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If you recall RWBs "diary" in which he states "How I loathe that boy" it seems highly likely that he'd indoctrinated his family with his own feelings and had caused them to mistrust everything that Jeremy ever did and any kindness on his part was treated with contempt.
Wasn't that after the occasion of being shown round White House Farm in the aftermath of the murders..
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Hi april, it was very stronglt not done to keep a child born 'out of wedlock' back then unless they had a shotgun wedding......wasn't he married to someone else at the time? Our culture has changed out of all recognition since that time, as you know ;D
Maggie HI. I agree with you about cultural change but I have not heard about him being married to someone else.
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Yes it all was wasn't it,the whole tragic affair. Jeremy was continually testing the boundaries of his parents' discipline once he had returned for good from his Antipodean adventures,in a way he would never have dared at 8 years old when he was sent away to boarding school. I see many parallels with the David Bain case:the son who wanted it all.
He was 25 years old for gods sake, he wasn't a teenager. He wasn't testing ANY boundaries, he was an adult living HIS life. And we aren't talking about David Bain
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Yes it all was wasn't it,the whole tragic affair. Jeremy was continually testing the boundaries of his parents' discipline once he had returned for good from his Antipodean adventures,in a way he would never have dared at 8 years old when he was sent away to boarding school. I see many parallels with the David Bain case:the son who wanted it all.
You appear stuck on David Bain and catathymic crisis.
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Wasn't that after the occasion of being shown round White House Farm in the aftermath of the murders..
Steve, are you asking me to believe that up till then RWB had loved jeremy as one of his own children. This is the man who used every opportuninty to drip poison about Jeremy into Nevills ear. This was the man who may have worked out that whilst June and Nevill were childless, their fortune would find its way into his branch of their family, something he never acknowledged Sheila and jeremy as being part of.
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You appear stuck on David Bain and catathymic crisis.
You've just reminded me:I must order James McNeish's book "The Mask of Sanity"..
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You've just reminded me:I must order James McNeish's book "The Mask of Sanity"..
If you read it online you won't have to lurk behind pillers in bookshops :)
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Steve, are you asking me to believe that up till then RWB had loved jeremy as one of his own children. This is the man who used every opportuninty to drip poison about Jeremy into Nevills ear. This was the man who may have worked out that whilst June and Nevill were childless, their fortune would find its way into his branch of their family, something he never acknowledged Sheila and jeremy as being part of.
Well if someone had told you they could easily murder their parents I think they have a right to intercede.
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If you read it online you won't have to lurk behind pillers in bookshops :)
I'll let Waterstones order it. If they went bankrupt we'd only get another off license,bookies,ecig or pound shop.
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Well if someone had told you they could easily murder their parents I think they have a right to intercede.
Steve, as strongly as you believe Jeremy to be guilty, I believe AS strongly that RWB resented him from the moment he was adopted because as Nevills heir he would get the lions share, which as non blood family he shouldn't have been entitled to. I think it's possible that he may, at some point, have even spoken with Nevill about it. I certainly find it strange that he told tales about Jeremy/made sly innuendos about him to Nevill and I believe that in order to do that he twisted everything that Jeremy said and took his words out of context. This, IMO, had been going on since Jeremy was a child. It was never Jeremy's place to form a relationship with RWB. As the adult, it was up to RWB to make the relationship with him. Children KNOW when they're disliked and I think Jeremy must have known that RWB disliked him.
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I'll let Waterstones order it. If they went bankrupt we'd only get another off license,bookies,ecig or pound shop.
I agree that Waterstones is a much moe salubrious option. :)
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Steve, as strongly as you believe Jeremy to be guilty, I believe AS strongly that RWB resented him from the moment he was adopted because as Nevills heir he would get the lions share, which as non blood family he shouldn't have been entitled to. I think it's possible that he may, at some point, have even spoken with Nevill about it. I certainly find it strange that he told tales about Jeremy/made sly innuendos about him to Nevill and I believe that in order to do that he twisted everything that Jeremy said and took his words out of context. This, IMO, had been going on since Jeremy was a child. It was never Jeremy's place to form a relationship with RWB. As the adult, it was up to RWB to make the relationship with him. Children KNOW when they're disliked and I think Jeremy must have known that RWB disliked him.
I think he knew that none of them seemed to have time for him. His comments to AE sound to me to be sarcasm - "I'm your favourite cousin" (when he knew he wasn't) meant the opposite.
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I think he knew that none of them seemed to have time for him. His comments to AE sound to me to be sarcasm - "I'm your favourite cousin" (when he knew he wasn't) meant the opposite.
Yes Caroline, that's how it sounds to me, too. It's also possible that he told RWB that he could easily kill his parents because he knew that it was likely to be passed on to Nevill.
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Yes Caroline, that's how it sounds to me, too. It's also possible that he told RWB that he could easily kill his parents because he knew that it was likely to be passed on to Nevill.
Caroline,,I agree with you here.I think Jeremy was " testing " them all out. Whether his father had ever hinted at any time,,on the lines of a gentle warning,it's quite possible. Sounding them all out.
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Caroline,,I agree with you here.I think Jeremy was " testing " them all out. Whether his father had ever hinted at any time,,on the lines of a gentle warning,it's quite possible. Sounding them all out.
I also think that Jeremy did it to Julie as well,as he was beginning to shake off his " sheltered environment " at WHF,into the big wide world . I think Neville may have given a few gentle hints too,as he was no fool.
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Morning steve Jeremy saying I could easily murder my parents to whom was this said and who witnessed this statement.
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Morning april sorry am I missing something here why would Jeremy want to tell anyone he could easily kill his family for this to get back to Ralph does not make sense to me at all. Don't think he ever said it if he did he was trying to act the big man which he was'ent to RWB. It would not have been meant literally I am always threatening to kill somebody but it is just a figure of speech ;D ;D ;D ;D you are not on my list april don't worry ;D
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Morning steve may I ask what is wrong with pound shops many people not as well off as yourself rely on pound shops with the budget they have could never afford Waterstones. You seem to skim read all the books in Waterstones so if they go bankrupt it will be down to people like yourself.
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Top of the morning to you Susan, Our thanks to Caroline for blowing the feather up (post #131). I am still intrigued by it, and also by Steve's apparent reluctance to put in his "pen north" on any meaningful observation on it. Can we read any significance into this most obvious "sidestep" of a Pele aficionado? Patti' post #132, wondering what the feather has been attached to - my guess is that it may be a wine cork, with colouring from red wine. The feather was poked in through the corkscrew hole. Susie, whomever did it, maybe they were having a "lark", which is what you get up with!!
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morning campion what a delight you are don't understand much of what you say but I know it would make sense if I could ;D the feather could have been attached at one time to a ladies brooch maybe Jeremy had a friend who was inclinded to wearing such things. Yes I will go for brooch could be a hat but rather too small for that ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Morning april sorry am I missing something here why would Jeremy want to tell anyone he could easily kill his family for this to get back to Ralph does not make sense to me at all. Don't think he ever said it if he did he was trying to act the big man which he was'ent to RWB. It would not have been meant literally I am always threatening to kill somebody but it is just a figure of speech ;D ;D ;D ;D you are not on my list april don't worry ;D
Susan, HELLO :) I think Jeremy was well aware that RWB reported back to Nevill much of what he said and the chances are he knew because Nevill told him. So whether it was a throw away line of the kind we've all used or said deliberately to provoke RWB, I think Jeremy was out to prove his uncle was a lying barsteward.
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Hello april dear you have a lovely way with words not unlike our dear friend campion ;D ;D ;D
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Hello april dear you have a lovely way with words not unlike our dear friend campion ;D ;D ;D
Susan dear, perhaps "Wordsmith" would be an apt description ;D ;D ;D
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april you do make me laugh as does camps ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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april you do make me laugh as does camps ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Susan dear, I know my place ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I don't profess to be an expert in this area of law, but it is correct that you forfeit your right to inherit from the will of a person you are convicted of murdering.
I don't understand why this is under debate. Any property used or sold by Jeremy before his conviction was his as the sole heir. That right may have been removed by law, but only after the fact.
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I don't understand why this is under debate. Any property used or sold by Jeremy before his conviction was his as the sole heir. That right may have been removed by law, but only after the fact.
Interested-observer, it's good to meet you. May I address you as IO, please? It sounds as if you are saying that on death of his family, as sole heir, Jeremy inherited. The law allowed the family to take over his inheritance AFTER he was convicted. If I have this wrong, please feel free to correct me.
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Interested-observer, it's good to meet you. May I address you as IO, please? It sounds as if you are saying that on death of his family, as sole heir, Jeremy inherited. The law allowed the family to take over his inheritance AFTER he was convicted. If I have this wrong, please feel free to correct me.
That's correct April ;D ;D
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I don't understand why this is under debate. Any property used or sold by Jeremy before his conviction was his as the sole heir. That right may have been removed by law, but only after the fact.
I don't understand it either IO. He had every right to do whatever he saw fit with the 'treasures' from WHF and it was none of the relatives business. RB actually had him followed when he moved items from the farm to Sheila's flat - why should his nose have been out of joint (and in other people's business) simply because Jeremy sold his own possessions? It just demonstrates to me that he didn't regard Jeremy as part of the family and resented him.
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I don't understand it either IO. He had every right to do whatever he saw fit with the 'treasures' from WHF and it was none of the relatives business. RB actually had him followed when he moved items from the farm to Sheila's flat - why should his nose have been out of joint (and in other people's business) simply because Jeremy sold his own possessions? It just demonstrates to me that he didn't regard Jeremy as part of the family and resented him.
Caroline, many thanks for confirming that my own opinion was correct :D It doesn't take too great a leap of imagination to think that RWB believed the "treasures" Jeremy sold, which were HIS to sell, rightfully belonged to himself.
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Hello Caroline the arrogance of that RB is not real. He sounded to be a terrible control freak and used every opportunity to try and discredit Jeremy as was said all the possessions were his to sell, give away or do what he wanted with. That was short lived :'(
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Hello Caroline the arrogance of that RB is not real. He sounded to be a terrible control freak and used every opportunity to try and discredit Jeremy as was said all the possessions were his to sell, give away or do what he wanted with. That was short lived :'(
Hi Susan, I just can't believe that ALL of the evidence was found AFTER the police were supposed to have completed a search. Moderator in the gun cupboard, scratches on the aga, jigsaw blade under the window, scratches on the catch. The weird thing is, the evidence seemed to grow out of the relatives theory when usually a theory develops from the evidence 'after' it is found.
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Hi Caroline at the end of every theory is money thats what motivates people and they start to believe themselves what suits them to believe and they find evidence that everyone else has missed. I have always wondered why would the relatives be searching the gun cupboard what did they hope to find and how come EP missed all this VITAL evidence after the murders at WHF. Very strange to say the least.
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Hi Susan, I just can't believe that ALL of the evidence was found AFTER the police were supposed to have completed a search. Moderator in the gun cupboard, scratches on the aga, jigsaw blade under the window, scratches on the catch. The weird thing is, the evidence seemed to grow out of the relatives theory when usually a theory develops from the evidence 'after' it is found.
But Caroline, because the rellies had produced the "evidence" of Jeremy's guilt before the police did, it stands to reasom that they would have provided the police with the theory to go with it, as borne out in RWB's "diary."
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But Caroline, because the rellies had produced the "evidence" of Jeremy's guilt before the police did, it stands to reasom that they would have provided the police with the theory to go with it, as borne out in RWB's "diary."
There was of course someone else who resented Jeremy from the off. Someone who had the ability to 'animate' the rellies theory or maybe even help it develop.
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But Caroline, because the rellies had produced the "evidence" of Jeremy's guilt before the police did, it stands to reasom that they would have provided the police with the theory to go with it, as borne out in RWB's "diary."
hi susie/caroline the rellies and police would no doubt claim 'noble clause corruption' to assuage any guilty feelings??
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There was of course someone else who resented Jeremy from the off. Someone who had the ability to 'animate' the rellies theory or maybe even help it develop.
Yes, of course. Their "evidence/theory would have needed outside co-operation in order for it to go live and be acted on.
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Yes, of course. Their "evidence/theory would have needed outside co-operation in order for it to go live and be acted on.
SUDDEN THOUGHT!!!! Must have seemed like all their Christmas's and Birthdays come at once. Such luck :D
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Hi Caroline penny just dropped know who you mean ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Caroline
We are back in business after suffering withdrawals all day ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Caroline
We are back in business after suffering withdrawals all day ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You and me both. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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april we shall have to post to each other till the others wake up ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hello nugnug glad you could join us ;D we were feeling somewhat lonely ;D
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Hello nugnug glad you could join us ;D we were feeling somewhat lonely ;D
Hugs Hiya! SO pleased to see you.........if you know what I mean :D
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april everyone is coming back we are not alone anymore yippee and so say all of us what a sad pair we are ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Are we all still here??????
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Are we all still here??????
Hi - do we know what happened??
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There's been a queue at the door all day - who forgot the keys?? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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There's been a queue at the door all day - who forgot the keys?? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Are we back to normality? Can I use thath word here? ;D
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Are we back to normality? Can I use thath word here? ;D
We seem to be April, not sure what happened but NGB said it was possibly a software problem. Apparently it needed updating but I'm sure we'll find out shortly.
Not sure about 'that' word - PM it to me and I'll let you know ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I've missed you all too. ;D
Was wanting to say that a young 27 year old had been found dead with her baby,,after having suffered PND for a while,,poor girl. This is recent news. As we all know,,this does,and has happened to a few young women,,and wasn't impossible for it to have happened in Sheilas' case.
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We seem to be April, not sure what happened but NGB said it was possibly a software problem. Apparently it needed updating but I'm sure we'll find out shortly.
Not sure about 'that' word - PM it to me and I'll let you know ;D ;D ;D ;D
Caroline, I've got my teeth in properly now ;D
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Caroline, I've got my teeth in properly now ;D
:o :o :o ;D ;D ;D :o
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I think everyones' vocal chords have seized up, Caroline. :(
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I think everyones' vocal chords have seized up, Caroline. :(
I think they must be scared to say something because they don't know why the forum went down. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I think they must be scared to say something because they don't know why the forum went down. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Caroline, I feel the same. I'm terrified to log off in case I lose it again :D
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Caroline, I feel the same. I'm terrified to log off in case I lose it again :D
I stayed logged in April but still lost connection!!
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I stayed logged in April but still lost connection!!
Caroline, I did too because when I tried to answer a post I got the "can't display this page" notice and I couldn't get back to log off.
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Caroline, I did too because when I tried to answer a post I got the "can't display this page" notice and I couldn't get back to log off.
I've always had that notice April.I just keep on pressing until it sends. Isn't technology wonderful.? ;D ;D
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I've always had that notice April.I just keep on pressing until it sends. Isn't technology wonderful.? ;D ;D
Yes Lookout, when subtlety fails, brute force and ignorance works wonders, doesn't it ;D
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We seem to be April, not sure what happened but NGB said it was possibly a software problem. Apparently it needed updating but I'm sure we'll find out shortly.
Yes, a software upgrade was necessary and as soon as that was done the problem was resolved. I apologise to all members for the delay in sorting this out. We believe we now have the means to resolve problems more quickly in future.
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Yes, a software upgrade was necessary and as soon as that was done the problem was resolved. I apologise to all members for the delay in sorting this out. We believe we now have the means to resolves problems more quickly in future.
You're so clever Brian ( ngb ). ;D ;D Thankyou.