Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on June 17, 2013, 02:05:PM
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My question is - how did it get there?
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My question is - how did it get there?
Pargeter rifle, minus its silencer was photographed in the very same gun cupboard as the blood / paint contaminated silencer, supposedly found by whoever...
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Pargeter has given two very different and conflicting accounts, regarding the whereabouts, and safety of his .22 Bruno bolt action rifle on the morning of the shootings. In the first version, a witness statement, he made to Essex police around the time of the shootings, he agreed that his rifle and silencer were present at the scene on morning of 7th August 1985, albeit, he qualified this by adding that although he kept his weapon there, he always took out the bolt from his rifle, and took that home with him to Bournend in Buckinghamshire, for safety reasons, so that no-one could fire it in his absence. In a second version, another witness statement, made to the COLP investigators, 1992, he states that his rifle was not present at the scene on the morning of the shootings, because he had taken it home with him on the penultimate week-end before the shootings...
Well...
there is something very odd and dodgy about Anthony Pargeters account regarding the availability of his rifle and silencer to the shooter in these killings. Since, on his first account his rifle and silencer were present at the scene, albeit could not be fired because he had removed the bolt and taken it away from the scene, so if true under what circumstances did Sheila Caffells DNA get onto the external thread on the end of his rifle, and more importantly was the first silencer recovered from the gun cupboard (SBJ/1) his silencer, or was the second silencer (DRB/1) his silencer?
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Pargeter has given two very different and conflicting accounts, regarding the whereabouts, and safety of his .22 Bruno bolt action rifle on the morning of the shootings. In the first version, a witness statement, he made to Essex police around the time of the shootings, he agreed that his rifle and silencer were present at the scene on morning of 7th August 1985, albeit, he qualified this by adding that although he kept his weapon there, he always took out the bolt from his rifle, and took that home with him to Bournend in Buckinghamshire, for safety reasons, so that no-one could fire it in his absence. In a second version, another witness statement, made to the COLP investigators, 1992, he states that his rifle was not present at the scene on the morning of the shootings, because he had taken it home with him on the penultimate week-end before the shootings...
Well...
there is something very odd and dodgy about Anthony Pargeters account regarding the availability of his rifle and silencer to the shooter in these killings. Since, on his first account his rifle and silencer were present at the scene, albeit could not be fired because he had removed the bolt and taken it away from the scene, so if true under what circumstances did Sheila Caffells DNA get onto the external thread on the end of his rifle, and more importantly was the first silencer recovered from the gun cupboard (SBJ/1) his silencer, or was the second silencer (DRB/1) his silencer?
On his second account, if his rifle and silencer were not present at the scene at the time of the shootings, how come it was photographed inside the same gun cupboard as the silencer, on 7th August 1985?
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Seems to me, that back in August 1985, there was a deliberate attempt to disassociate Pargeters .22 rifle and silencer from the shootings, and a similar tactic was adopted in connection with the 2002 appeal (details to follow)...
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(2002) Appeal:-
(1) - Sheila Caffells DNA found inside the inverted thread of the blood / paint contaminated silencer
(2) - Non of her DNA was found on the external thread on the end of the family owned .22 semi-automatic rifle...
(3) - external thread on the end of Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle was not (2002) tested...
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(2002) Appeal:-
(1) - Sheila Caffells DNA found inside the inverted thread of the blood / paint contaminated silencer
(2) - Non of her DNA was found on the external thread on the end of the family owned .22 semi-automatic rifle...
(3) - external thread on the end of Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle was not (2002) tested...
Yet, if examined in 2002, Sheila Caffells DNA would have been detected on the external thread of the Pargeter weapon...
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COLP were responsible for contaminating the internal thread of the blood / paint contaminated silencer with Sheila caffells DNA - which was absent from the thread of the semi-automatic rifle...
Sheila Caffells DNA could not be present on the inverted thread of the blood / paint contaminated silencer, and yet be absent from the exrternal thread on the end of the anshulz rifle to which it had supposedly been screwed onto tightly during the shootings...
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COLP were responsible for contaminating the internal thread of the blood / paint contaminated silencer with Sheila caffells DNA - which was absent from the thread of the semi-automatic rifle...
Sheila Caffells DNA could not be present on the inverted thread of the blood / paint contaminated silencer, and yet be absent from the exrternal thread on the end of the anshulz rifle to which it had supposedly been screwed onto tightly during the shootings...
But in 1992, COLP arranged for a ballistic expert, to carry out tests involving the coupling of the silencer, and Anthony Pargeters rifle - at this time Sheila Caffells DNA got transferred into the inverted thread of the silencer, from the external thread on the end of Anthony Pargeters gun...
This information and evidence was concealed from the court of appeal (2002), so that the argument that the silencer was fitted to the anshulz rifle during the shootings could still be pursued...
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If Pargers rifle had been at the scene in accordance with his first account, minus its bolt, how on earth could Sheila Caffells DNA have got onto the external thread of his bolt action rifle, if it was photographed inside the gun cupboard, where the contaminated silencer was supposedly also recovered from?
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If Pargers rifle had been at the scene in accordance with his first account, minus its bolt, how on earth could Sheila Caffells DNA have got onto the externalthread of his bolt action rifle,, if it was photographed inside the gun cupboard, where the contaminated silencer was supposedly also recovered from?
Hi Mike,JB put Pargeters rifle on his list of guns in WHF when outside with the police. Did he know it was there in the downstairs toilet, or did he include it in the list because he assumed it was there as usual?
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If Pargers rifle had been at the scene in accordance with his first account, minus its bolt, how on earth could Sheila Caffells DNA have got onto the external thread of his bolt action rifle, if it was photographed inside the gun cupboard, where the contaminated silencer was supposedly also recovered from?
If his second account was / is true, and his .22 bolt action rifle was not at the scene on the morning of the shootings, how did police manage to photograph it in the gun cupboard, and how did Sheila's DNA manage to end up on the external thread of his gun...
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Hi Mike,JB put Pargeters rifle on his list of guns in WHF when outside with the police. Did he know it was there in the downstairs toilet, or did he include it in the list because he assumed it was there as usual?
According to Jeremy, Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle and silencer were in the downstairs toilet, along with his shotgun, and other ammunitions on the evening prior to the shootings - so, in view of the police photographing the Pargeter rifle, minus its silencer in the gun cupboard, it must mean that somebody moved the Pargeter rifle and silencer overnight, because it ended up in the gun cupboard in the downstairs office...
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My question is - how did it get there?
the police used it in the training?
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Why would anyone move the Pargeter gun and silencer from its location in the downstairs toilet, into the gun cupboard in the downstairs office, on the eve of the shootings, if it didn't have a bolt fitted to enable the weapon to be fired, and how did such a weapon end up with Sheila's DNA on the end of its barrel...
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Look at this:-
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very strange....... I wonder if the photo of this AP rifles shows the bolt?
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Was this the rifle seen at the window,,which PC Bird couldn't explain its reason for having been there,,when at the 1986 trial.? Didn't know why it was there.? What sort of an answer was that.?
If they'd done their job properly,,he might have known the answer.
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Look at this:-
It's very strange Mike. If Jeremy said both firearms were in the downstairs loo then was APs shotgun the one with Sheila and Nevill's fingerprints on it? I just think she may have gone in the loo and seen the guns and that is when the trouble began. Could APs shotgun have been the gun heard being fired earlier in the evening? Maybe the anchutz was the second gun used in the shooting not the first and it was APs rifle which was used initially? The fact Jeremy said he left the anchutz to hand may have muddied the waters. May have later been used by police to point the finger at Jeremy???
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Maggie..there were no shotgun wounds to the victims.
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It's very strange Mike. If Jeremy said both firearms were in the downstairs loo then was APs shotgun the one with Sheila and Nevill's fingerprints on it? I just think she may have gone in the loo and seen the guns and that is when the trouble began. Could APs shotgun have been the gun heard being fired earlier in the evening? Maybe the anchutz was the second gun used in the shooting not the first and it was APs rifle which was used initially? The fact Jeremy said he left the anchutz to hand may have muddied the waters. May have later been used by police to point the finger at Jeremy???
You could be right about the shotgun blast being heard on the previous evening by the witness, Brian Smith:-
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Maggie..there were no shotgun wounds to the victims.
No I know tyler, I meant was the shot gun fired earlier when shots were heard by neighbours.
I then meant was APs rifle used before Jeremy's and the fact that Jeremy left the rifle out may not have been the catalyst but APs rifle in the loo may have been.???
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You could be right about the shotgun blast being heard on the previous evening by the witness, Brian Smith:-
Hey Mike where are you?
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Maggie.I too believe that Sheila may have fired the shotgun around midnight,as reported by a witness. But I believe this to have been Neville's shotgun hence both his and Sheila's fingerprints being lifted from it.
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Maggie.I too believe that Sheila may have fired the shotgun around midnight,as reported by a witness. But I believe this to have been Neville's shotgun hence both his and Sheila's fingerprints being lifted from it.
thanks tyler just wasnt sure which shotgun it was. There were so many available guns.
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The presence of Sheila's DNA inside the inverted screw thread of the silencer got there when it was screwed onto the barrel of a rifle which also had the corresponding DNA of Sheila on its external screw thread - that rifle was not the Bamber owned .22 anshulz rifle...