Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on June 14, 2013, 04:35:PM
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Operational schedules
Key moments
Zone A
03:35am -
03:36am -
03:37am -
03:38am -
03:42am -
03:45am -
03:48am - Occupants of CA07 arrive at the scene
03:52am - Jeremy Bamber arrives at the scene
04:02am - Person seen moving around in upstairs bedroom, PC Myall refers to this person as an unidentified male
Zone B (Overlap 04:02am - 05:00am, Zone AB)
05:00am - PS Adams an his team arrive at the scene
05:25am - firearms officers engaged in conversation with a person from inside the farmhouse
Zone C (Overlap 05:25am - 06:00am, Zone BC)
06:00am - two ambulances summoned to attend the scene
06:30am -
Zone D (Overlap 06:30am - 07:00am, Zone CD)
07:00am - PI Montgomery and his team arrive at the scene
07:15am - WPC Julia Jeapes, spots rifle leaning against bedroom window (using scope of her weapon)
07:30am - raid team compromising of six firearms officers preparing to force entry into premises
Zone E (Overlap 07:30am - 07:37am, Zone DE) 2 bodies downstairs / not yet been upstairs to check
07:37am - body of one dead male, and body of one dead female, found upon entry
07:38am - one dead male, one dead female
07:42am -
07:45am - a murder, and a suicide
07:48am -
Zone F (Overlap 07:48am - 08:10am, Zone EF) 2 bodies downstairs / 3 bodies upstairs
08:10am - after a thorough search, a further three bodies found upstairs, five dead in total
08:15am - DCS Harris, DCI Gibbons, PI Montgomery, enter premises,, Harris on phone to ACC Simpson
08:30am - Sheila now upstairs, body on bed, one wound on neck
Zone G (Overlap 08:30am - 08:44am, Zone FG) 1 body downstairs / 4 bodies upstairs
08:44am - Dr Craig confirms Sheila as being dead,, with only a solitary wound to neck by that stage
09:00am - Training officers arrive at scene to carry out a training exercise with bodies insitu
Zone H (Overlap 09:00am - 09:10am, Zone GH) 1 body downstairs / 4 bodies upstairs
09:10am - arrival of DCI Jones,and DC Clark at scene (DCI Jones unaware anyone had been shot)
09:30am - arrival of Coroners officer, PC Wright at scene
Zone I (Overlap 09:30am - 10:00am, Zone HI) 1 body downstairs / 4 bodies upstairs
10:00am - SOC take control of crimes scenes within the farmhouse
11:10am - PS Peter Woodcock removes rifle from Sheila's body, and makes weapon safe
11:15am - Training exercise completed
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Who was Mick Gradwell,Mike.?
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Who was Mick Gradwell,Mike.?
Mick Gradwell, a former detective chief superintendent with Lancashire police...
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Zone E (Overlap 07:30am - 07:37am, Zone DE) 2 bodies downstairs / not yet been upstairs to check
07:37am - body of one dead male, and body of one dead female, found upon entry
07:38am - one dead male, one dead female
07:42am -
07:45am - a murder, and a suicide
07:48am -
Zone F (Overlap 07:48am - 08:10am, Zone EF) 2 bodies downstairs / 3 bodies upstairs
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DCI 'Terry Gibbons, was responsible for instructing the occupants of CA07 to relay information from the scene to the control room...
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What most people are not aware of, is that DCI 'Terry' Gibbons, was at the heart of the cover up, involving the plan to make out that two bodies, had never been found downstairs at all, because as we all now know, it was 'Terry'Gibbons, who relayed the details coming from within the farmhouse at around 7:37am, to the effect that the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female, had been found upon entry by the raid team, Gibbons instructed the occupants of CA07 to relay this information to the control room, which is precisely what took place. In a nutshell, one of the most experienced detectives in Essex police at that time (Gibbons) believed what he was overhearing when raid team members reported that upon entry, firstly they had discovered the body of one dead male, and secondly, the discovery of the body of a dead female. The occupants of CA07 also believed what the DCI was telling them to report to the control room, so the bigger picture is beginning to emerge, as to what was in the minds of all these officers at the material time - two bodies found upon entry, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female...
Later...
Gibbons must have been privy to information coming from within the farmhouse, that one of the two bodies, was being treated as a murder, whilst the other body was being talked about in terms of a suicide - Gibbons relayed what he was told to the occupants of CA07, who in turn passed on the information to the control room, which resulted in a civilian employee working in the control room, a lady by the christian name of 'Linda', who contacted DS Neil Davidson, at home at around 7.45am, requesting him to come into the office, because police were dealing with an incident at whf, involving a murder, and a suicide...
Now...
I could go on and on about how this information which was being relayed by the occupants of CA07 to the control room, through the mind, body and soul of DCI 'Terry'Gibbons, which can only mean that he was caught up deep in the mire-like operation, which at just after 8:10am that morning started to go pear-shaped, but at the present time, it serves no purpose because in the contents of the message logs, and in his own witness statement, it is clear that he did attend the scene at the time these anomolies crop up concerning the placement of bodies, downstairs, and upstairs, at various stages of the proceedings...
So, why then once the nature of the investigation changed, from SC/688/85, to SC/786/85, was an attempt made by all and sundry to try and conceal the presence of DCI 'Terry' Gibbons at the scene at all...
Why did this attempt to try and conceal his presence inside the farmhouse, at a time when the body of a female became displaced from downstairs to upstairs, which just so happens to coincide with the non-disclosure of the various message logs which detail the discovery of two bodies upon entry, one the body of a male, and the other, the body of a female, one death categorised as a murder, the other described as a suicide...
Think about it...
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Here is an extract from a confidential police report, where DCI Gibbons attendance at the scene is being thrown into doubt - as though he was never called out to attend...
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Everywhere you look, once the nature of the investigation changed from being one of four murders and a suicide (SC/688/85), into five murders (SC/786/85), Steps were being taken to try and extract DCI 'Terry'Gibbons from the inevitable mire, concerning the original presence of Sheila's body, downstairs upon entry - here is another entry extracted from a confidential report:-
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Gibbons was not the only senior officer who was rescued from the mire of an operation, since DCI Wright the firearms Commander in chief was also in attendance, but seemingly played no role at all in any part of the proceedings. Another senior officer worth mentioning who has also disappeared into the background was / is DCI Frost...
and, Sergeant "Z"...
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03:48am - Occupants of CA07 arrive at the scene
03:52am - Jeremy Bamber arrives at the scene
Bonnett logged CA07 as arriving at 0348, but other police documents give 0348 as the time when the police car overtook Jeremy's car, and 0350 as the time when the police arrived at the farm (with Jeremy arriving a minute or two afterwards). After Jeremy's car was overtaken, car CA07 should have been able to reach the farm in under two minutes, and Jeremy would have taken about 3 1/2 minutes.
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Bonnett logged CA07 as arriving at 0348, but other police documents give 0348 as the time when the police car overtook Jeremy's car, and 0350 as the time when the police arrived at the farm (with Jeremy arriving a minute or two afterwards). After Jeremy's car was overtaken, car CA07 should have been able to reach the farm in under two minutes, and Jeremy would have taken about 3 1/2 minutes.
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We have not yet heard why the occupants of CA05, and CA06, were deployed to the scene - for example, whether they were deployed because of Ralph Bambers call (3:26am) to police, or Jeremys later call (3:36am)...
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Mick Grad well
We all remember him from MWT doc on the new evidence,I quote him -all the evidence points to Jeremy being guilty-
What evidence Mick? Phone loges incident logs DNA witheld statement's psychology reports on JB,
Q why did MWT allow him to make such a unqualified statement on prime time tv
http://ricosorda.blogspot.be/2013/03/will-mick-gradwell-turn-up-to-committee.html
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Mick Grad well
We all remember him from MWT doc on the new evidence,I quote him -all the evidence points to Jeremy being guilty-
What evidence Mick? Phone loges incident logs DNA witheld statement's psychology reports on JB,
Q why did MWT allow him to make such a unqualified statement on prime time tv
http://ricosorda.blogspot.be/2013/03/will-mick-gradwell-turn-up-to-committee.html
Yes,,the guy who for some reason denied there had been any murders at Jersey during the scandal.!
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Who was Mick Gradwell,Mike.?
Hi Lookout
I understand you now know who he is but I'm just posting the following for general interest on the forum:
Mike Gradwell featured in last year's ITV docu at 11.26, 13.03, 19.25 and highlights many inconsistencies etc and yet at 22.50 declares JB to have been a cold blooded calculated killer :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo
Here he is again in a Guardian Vid at 6.40 highlighting inconsistences. This vid was produced before the above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M
I cannot tell you how put out I am that those that have been capable of influencing the direction of the case in any sort of professional capacity are nearly all male as you will see from the above >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( Why? Off the top of my head the only females that spring to mind are WPC Jeapes, Glynnis Howard and author of Murder at WHF, Claire Powell. So we end up having a controversial case decided on almost exclusively by males and lacking from female perspective. I'm not a raving feminist on the contrary but I'm not happy with the above at all.
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Possible others: WPc Susan Dixon (3115) and WPc Alison Bourne (3220), the second being a firearms officer.
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Everywhere you look, once the nature of the investigation changed from being one of four murders and a suicide (SC/688/85), into five murders (SC/786/85), Steps were being taken to try and extract DCI 'Terry'Gibbons from the inevitable mire, concerning the original presence of Sheila's body, downstairs upon entry - here is another entry extracted from a confidential report:-
Which document/s show that DCI Gibbons was at the scene from an early stage?
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Which document/s show that DCI Gibbons was at the scene from an early stage?
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Possible others: WPc Susan Dixon (3115) and WPc Alison Bourne (3220), the second being a firearms officer.
Thank you Reader :)
I wasn't actually aware of the above but added to the three I've mentioned I think we can safely say that overall (police, forensics, legal, jounalists, authors, etc) female input was minimal.
I think I'm right in saying the jury comprised 7 males and 5 females? I wouldn't mind betting that the two jurors who found not guilty were female. I also wouldn't mind betting that had the jury been evenly gender balanced another female juror might have found not guilty either because she interpreted the info differently during trial, or the females collectively were able to assert themselves more/change dynamics generally during deliberations. Bearing in mind the trial was '86 and females generally speaking then were not as confident in asserting themselves as they are today :)
Had all those involved pre-trial (police, forensics, legal, journalists etc) have been gender balanced I doubt the case would ever have got near a court as females would have brought a different perspective to the case :)
I am no raving feminist (I like men far too much for that :P) but imo JB's case being dominated by males has done him no favours at all. Oh yes and all the appeal court judges male too. And I wouldn't mind betting that the majority at the ccrc are all male.
Its a statistical fact that those that stand accused in criminal trials are usually male. Whether it be fraud, robbery, drug dealing, violence, murders, rapes, paedophilia etc. Therefore it makes little difference if the majority involved pre-trial and during trial are male as the information presented to the jury is being used to judge male behaviour (sorry guys). Whereas for those of us that believe JB is innocent, imo we are essentially looking at female behaviour: complex issues associated with a mentally ill adoptive mother and a mentally ill adopted daughter relationship that went very wrong from the beginning and ended in SC meeting her birth mother for the first time only weeks before the murders. The timing of this reunion was no coincidence imo and potentially as much the catalyst for the tragedy as proposals for foster care of the twins were.
Yet who was it that put forward the motivation for the murders...it appears to have been DI Bob Miller at 23.30 in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OlvzCVrmc
"The only person with any motive to kill all of that family not rob the house not burglarise the house just to go in and kill a complete family the only motivation could of been the inheritance". Could it? Or could it be that as DI Bob Miller is male he is unable to see other possibilities and explanations?
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Added to the above imo the other crucial elements are:
- A woman scorned
- Family greed
Imo females will pick up on the above in a way that males will not.
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Hi Lookout
I understand you now know who he is but I'm just posting the following for general interest on the forum:
Mike Gradwell featured in last year's ITV docu at 11.26, 13.03, 19.25 and highlights many inconsistencies etc and yet at 22.50 declares JB to have been a cold blooded calculated killer :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo
Here he is again in a Guardian Vid at 6.40 highlighting inconsistences. This vid was produced before the above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M
I cannot tell you how put out I am that those that have been capable of influencing the direction of the case in any sort of professional capacity are nearly all male as you will see from the above >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( Why? Off the top of my head the only females that spring to mind are WPC Jeapes, Glynnis Howard and author of Murder at WHF, Claire Powell. So we end up having a controversial case decided on almost exclusively by males and lacking from female perspective. I'm not a raving feminist on the contrary but I'm not happy with the above at all.
Hi NN, completely agree!! Check out 9.20 where Bew's states that the silencer wasn't discovered until a 'couple of WEEKS' after the tragedy!! How could he possibly make such a blunder regarding such a crucial aspect of the case? The whole evidence in respect to this silence is dodgy beyond belief - all too convenient, with it's blob of blood, the paint and the enigmatic hair!! The only thing missing from the silencer was a rolled up photograph of Jeremy wielding the gun and if they could have photo shopped one and concealed it inside the damn thing, I'm sure they would have!! ::) ::)
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Hi NN, completely agree!! Check out 9.20 where Bew's states that the silencer wasn't discovered until a 'couple of WEEKS' after the tragedy!! How could he possibly make such a blunder regarding such a crucial aspect of the case? The whole evidence in respect to this silence is dodgy beyond belief - all too convenient, with it's blob of blood, the paint and the enigmatic hair!! The only thing missing from the silencer was a rolled up photograph of Jeremy wielding the gun and if they could have photo shopped one and concealed it inside the damn thing, I'm sure they would have!! ::) ::)
"The only thing missing from the silencer was a rolled up photograph of Jeremy wielding the gun.........." and possibly for further clarification an inserted flag bearing the legend "Jeremy wuz here." ::)
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Everywhere you look, once the nature of the investigation changed from being one of four murders and a suicide (SC/688/85), into five murders (SC/786/85), Steps were being taken to try and extract DCI 'Terry'Gibbons from the inevitable mire, concerning the original presence of Sheila's body, downstairs upon entry - here is another entry extracted from a confidential report:-
Mike, is the statement you have provided from Gibbons dated before or after SC/786/85 came in to existance? I think it's after, which undermines your argument. Also, re the excerpts of the report you have provided... they appear to be so easily undermined by simple reference to Gibbon's statement? I could understand better the argument you are making, if Gibbons had provided an contradictory statement which replaced the one you have posted up?
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Hi Lookout
I understand you now know who he is but I'm just posting the following for general interest on the forum:
Mike Gradwell featured in last year's ITV docu at 11.26, 13.03, 19.25 and highlights many inconsistencies etc and yet at 22.50 declares JB to have been a cold blooded calculated killer :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo
Here he is again in a Guardian Vid at 6.40 highlighting inconsistences. This vid was produced before the above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M
I cannot tell you how put out I am that those that have been capable of influencing the direction of the case in any sort of professional capacity are nearly all male as you will see from the above >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( Why? Off the top of my head the only females that spring to mind are WPC Jeapes, Glynnis Howard and author of Murder at WHF, Claire Powell. So we end up having a controversial case decided on almost exclusively by males and lacking from female perspective. I'm not a raving feminist on the contrary but I'm not happy with the above at all.
At 18:56 in your first video Simon McKay is confusing the burn marks on Nevill's back which could well have been made after all five victims were dead and therefore the silencer was off the weapon with the earlier incident in the kitchen when there was a struggle and the silencer came into contact with the mantleshelf.
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Mike, is the statement you have provided from Gibbons dated before or after SC/786/85 came in to existance? I think it's after, which undermines your argument. Also, re the excerpts of the report you have provided... they appear to be so easily undermined by simple reference to Gibbon's statement? I could understand better the argument you are making, if Gibbons had provided an contradictory statement which replaced the one you have posted up?
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At 18:56 in your first video Simon McKay is confusing the burn marks on Nevill's back which could well have been made after all five victims were dead and therefore the silencer was off the weapon with the earlier incident in the kitchen when there was a struggle and the silencer came into contact with the mantleshelf.
Hi Steve_uk
Can you let him know please http://www.mckaylaw.co.uk/Solicitors/contacts.htm
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Thank you Reader :)
I wasn't actually aware of the above but added to the three I've mentioned I think we can safely say that overall (police, forensics, legal, jounalists, authors, etc) female input was minimal.
I think I'm right in saying the jury comprised 7 males and 5 females? I wouldn't mind betting that the two jurors who found not guilty were female. I also wouldn't mind betting that had the jury been evenly gender balanced another female juror might have found not guilty either because she interpreted the info differently during trial, or the females collectively were able to assert themselves more/change dynamics generally during deliberations. Bearing in mind the trial was '86 and females generally speaking then were not as confident in asserting themselves as they are today :)
Had all those involved pre-trial (police, forensics, legal, journalists etc) have been gender balanced I doubt the case would ever have got near a court as females would have brought a different perspective to the case :)
I am no raving feminist (I like men far too much for that :P) but imo JB's case being dominated by males has done him no favours at all. Oh yes and all the appeal court judges male too. And I wouldn't mind betting that the majority at the ccrc are all male.
Its a statistical fact that those that stand accused in criminal trials are usually male. Whether it be fraud, robbery, drug dealing, violence, murders, rapes, paedophilia etc. Therefore it makes little difference if the majority involved pre-trial and during trial are male as the information presented to the jury is being used to judge male behaviour (sorry guys). Whereas for those of us that believe JB is innocent, imo we are essentially looking at female behaviour: complex issues associated with a mentally ill adoptive mother and a mentally ill adopted daughter relationship that went very wrong from the beginning and ended in SC meeting her birth mother for the first time only weeks before the murders. The timing of this reunion was no coincidence imo and potentially as much the catalyst for the tragedy as proposals for foster care of the twins were.
Yet who was it that put forward the motivation for the murders...it appears to have been DI Bob Miller at 23.30 in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OlvzCVrmc
"The only person with any motive to kill all of that family not rob the house not burglarise the house just to go in and kill a complete family the only motivation could of been the inheritance". Could it? Or could it be that as DI Bob Miller is male he is unable to see other possibilities and explanations?
Hi NN
Beats train spotting I guess. Do you have any other interesting hobbies or are you just seriously SAD? Do you ever wonder what it might be like to be balanced and rounded? Anyway just so you don't feel like Billy No Mates here's a little something to cheer you up:
Verdict By Gender
7 Males : Guilty 58.33%
Not Guilty 0%
5 Females : Guilty 24.99%
Not Guilty 16.66%
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NN,you were correct when you guessed that the two jury members who voted "not guilty" were women. Allegedly they were both in tears when JB was convicted.
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NN,you were correct when you guessed that the two jury members who voted "not guilty" were women. Allegedly they were both in tears when JB was convicted.
Hi Tyler
Thanks for the clarification. I had read it somewhere, perhaps Wilkes' book but wasn't too sure how reliable it was. But I know your posts are always tip-top :)
Btw for months I've been fascinated and keep meaning to ask why on your posts to the left of the thread title etc a little icon of what looks like a mobile phone appears? Whereas most posts have what appears to be a couple of sheets of paper or a paper clip if attachments are included?
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Hi Tyler
Thanks for the clarification. I had read it somewhere, perhaps Wilkes' book but wasn't too sure how reliable it was. But I know your posts are always tip-top :)
Btw for months I've been fascinated and keep meaning to ask why on your posts to the left of the thread title etc a little icon of what looks like a mobile phone appears? Whereas most posts have what appears to be a couple of sheets of paper or a paper clip if attachments are included?
NN,mobile phone icon appears when the poster is using the internet on their mobile phone. I have to post on my Blackberry alot as family members like to hog the pc and laptop in this house :(