Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Steve_uk on December 28, 2012, 06:16:PM
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I was speculating as to the nature and character of Jeremy's relationships and have come up with a short list of four candidates. It is to be noted that I have expressly disregarded the succession of one night stands, three in a bed romps at Bourtree Cottage and other similar dalliances to come up with a short list of four:
a) Suzette Ford
His first and possibly deepest love when a Jeremy devoid of and unharmed by the noxious substances which were to play such a pivotal role in his life for the worse, was at his physical peak. Such a relief to find a mature yet bubbly woman who fulfilled Jeremy's physical side and who satisfied this role without demanding anything from him. The downside of course was that she came with the baggage of marriage and children, yet this was possibly an attraction for Jeremy who was putting a toe in the water in social mores and did not want to commit. By all intents and purposes he had a good relationship with her three children and was devastated when the efforts to conceive a child of their own ended in miscarriage.
b) Julie Mugford
After Suzette went back to her husband Jeremy possibly wants a foil as a partner rather than a rival. Has been dumped by a blonde so chooses a brunette. Julie is guarded in his presence and lets Jeremy take the lead. She is physically attracted to him before she becomes aware of his inheritance. She is eager to please at all times and goes out of the way to be the ersatz mother Jeremy never had. She is blinded to his evil scheme by wanting to please him, and thrown off the scent by what she perceives as his practical jokes which she puts down to immaturity, yet she is willing to stay with him after having a bad experience with a male member of her family.
c) Anji Greaves
Jeremy had dated her sister I believe, but Anji wasn't interested until she got wind of Jeremy's forthcoming inheritance. Criticized Julie for "giving him mouth" after the murders when he needed support. Dumped him after the guilty verdict.
d) Brett Collins
A homosexual lover of Jeremy who caught him unawares as a young and inexperienced foreigner who never had any love or attention. Difficult to see what the attraction was as Brett's business experience turned out to running a sandwich bar in Auckland. He did have antiques knowledge, but let's be generous and say Jeremy was not at this stage planning to sell the family silver at Sotheby's and therefore needing a partner in crime.
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steve I am getting quite worried now I hear about three in a bed romps. Never heard of this before. Yes Julie did everything to please Jeremy she sold him down the river for £25.000. What is the bad experience Julie had with a male member of her family you seem to know too much about her for my liking not to be related.That is of course your business and I have no wish to push this. I often wonder why he did not marry Julie she was so devoted to him and could see no wrong in him. Most males of 24 have one night stands.
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steve I am getting quite worried now I hear about three in a bed romps. Never heard of this before. Yes Julie did everything to please Jeremy she sold him down the river for £25.000. What is the bad experience Julie had with a male member of her family you seem to know too much about her for my liking not to be related.That is of course your business and I have no wish to push this. I often wonder why he did not marry Julie she was so devoted to him and could see no wrong in him. Most males of 24 have one night stands.
I think Charles Marsden relates a story where he ended up waking at Goldhanger with Jeremy and another girl,but don't quote me. Again I think Julie might have been abused by a family member but we don't want any writs flying around. As for not marrying Julie, I think Jeremy was tied to the farm that last year with pressure coming from his parents to shape up as a farmer and I just don't think he had the time. That's the charitable explanation of course. The other explanation is that Jeremy had planned a scheme to kill his family and needed Julie around to bounce ideas off, as a pretext to use the bicycle and to tie her in as an accessory should she not play ball.
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From those you have listed, I feel the title of the thread would be better called "Who would Jeremy have been least unhappy with"
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From those you have listed, I feel the title of the thread would be better called "Who would Jeremy have been least unhappy with"
I know. I'm almost regretting starting the thread now,and after 16 hits it's already become a damp squib.
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I know. I'm almost regretting starting the thread now,and after 16 hits it's already become a damp squib.
No worries, you tried. :) :) :)
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Oh it's no damp squib Steve. This case is beginning to have hints of blackmail. Unbeknown to Jeremy.
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Oh it's no damp squib Steve. This case is beginning to have hints of blackmail. Unbeknown to Jeremy.
I have myself over the years become unshockable lookout,but like this thread I see interest in the Jeremy Bamber case beginning to wane as Jeremy's appearance becomes all the more gerontified.
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steve it is funny you should say that but I came on the forum not knowing what to think about Jeremy then I thought he maybe guilty and now after all the good points and debates I am leaning towards innocent.
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I have myself over the years become unshockable lookout,but like this thread I see interest in the Jeremy Bamber case beginning to wane as Jeremy's appearance becomes all the more gerontified.
I don't think the case will wane,Steve,on the contrary,if you keep posting little gems like you have done,,,it'll spring to life again.
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steve it is funny you should say that but I came on the forum not knowing what to think about Jeremy then I thought he maybe guilty and now after all the good points and debates I am leaning towards innocent.
I don't think anyone cares enough either way,apart from the relatives who made sure Jeremy kept his Category A status.
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I don't think anyone cares enough either way,apart from the relatives who made sure Jeremy kept his Category A status.
Why should it have been on their say-so though Steve.? He'd been put as a Cat B,but still imprisoned whichever way you look at it,so why do you think the relatives objected.? They were certainly keeping their ear to the ground on that one.
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steve you care as you spend your whole time trying to convince the forum Jeremy is guilty and Julie should be known as Saint Julie.
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I don't think anyone cares enough either way,apart from the relatives who made sure Jeremy kept his Category A status.
Its a disgrace that people dont care.
I believe the reason Jeremy is still cat A because he wont take up a remedial course to prepare him for parole. Neither will he accept guilt. Didnt see any mention of relatives tho I have heard this before.
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I have myself over the years become unshockable lookout,but like this thread I see interest in the Jeremy Bamber case beginning to wane as Jeremy's appearance becomes all the more gerontified.
I see quite the opposite and like Susan, I used to think he was guilty! I was very young when he was convicted, but I remember the pictures in the newspapers and on TV - he was obviously a very attractive man but so was Ted Bundy! However, I don't see any Ted Bundy was innocent forums, campaigns to have him released or legions of women hanging around outside the prison on the night of his execution! In short, you seem to be the one obsessed with the way JB looked and if you haven't noticed the innocent fraternity aren't all women and not all supporters of JB are members of this forum!!
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Why should it have been on their say-so though Steve.? He'd been put as a Cat B,but still imprisoned whichever way you look at it,so why do you think the relatives objected.? They were certainly keeping their ear to the ground on that one.
I think they were expressing their interest in the case,and after the mistakes by Police in the initial inquiry I think the top brass had no choice but to defer to their wishes and avoid any more forthcoming unwelcome publicity.
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I think they were expressing their interest in the case,and after the mistakes by Police in the initial inquiry I think the top brass had no choice but to defer to their wishes and avoid any more forthcoming unwelcome publicity.
Steve,,it would appear that the police have followed the wishes of the relatives all along,,,which I can't help feeling suspicious about. Nor can anyone else.
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Steve,,it would appear that the police have followed the wishes of the relatives all along,,,which I can't help feeling suspicious about. Nor can anyone else.
After the decision to remove DCI Taff Jones that was true. But what strength of character it took from them to get so far in the first place..
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After the decision to remove DCI Taff Jones that was true. But what strength of character it took from them to get so far in the first place..
Without the outside interference,,who were neither use nor ornament,,things would have remained as they did,,,and this is why I think that's there's more to this case than meets the eye,,but everyone needed a scape-goat,so Jeremy fitted the bill.
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scape-goat ? surely JB was in the clear as the police believed it was murder/suicide on behalf of SC
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In reply to #14 I had at first ruled out any parallels with Ted Bundy,but a reading of Wikipedia elicited the following:
1) Ted is born of uncertain parentage and is labelled "The Bastard" by contemporaries.
2)He was raised by his grandmother who periodically underwent electroconvulsive therapy for depression.
3)He complained about his stepfather,telling a girlfriend "he didn't make much money".
4)He was arrested twice on suspicion of burglary.
5)He had a love-hate relationship with one of his early girlfriends,Stephanie Brooks.
6)Divided professional psychiatric opinion.
7)Always careful not to leave forensic evidence at the scene of a crime and refused to confess right until the end.
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In reply to #14 I had at first ruled out any parallels with Ted Bundy,but a reading of Wikipedia elicited the following:
1) Ted is born of uncertain parentage and is labelled "The Bastard" by contemporaries.
2)He was raised by his grandmother who periodically underwent electroconvulsive therapy for depression.
3)He complained about his stepfather,telling a girlfriend "he didn't make much money".
4)He was arrested twice on suspicion of burglary.
5)He had a love-hate relationship with one of his early girlfriends,Stephanie Brooks.
6)Divided professional psychiatric opinion.
7)Always careful not to leave forensic evidence at the scene of a crime and refused to confess right until the end.
Just looked up Ted Bundy Steve. I only needed to read a few paragraphs to realise this was a man with severe disorders. How on earth can you compare JB with Ted Bundy.....bit far fetched Steve . I think you are clutching at a very thin straw!!
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scape-goat ? surely JB was in the clear as the police believed it was murder/suicide on behalf of SC
I believe "scapegoat" is probably the wrong word ? But what does need to be emphasised is (although I don't wish to accuse the relatives of such things personally. But it is in the minds of some) that the relatives had a motive in continually pressing Taff Jones with the silencer evidence (which was I believe the reason that he was removed) and that was because (1) They disliked Jeremy. This is evident to me. and (2) They didn't want him to get the inheritance. Which remember did not only consist of £500,000. But also the caravan park (this opinion can be backed up by the court case concerning Jeremy's share in the park, when he had to sell his share to another family member in order to meet the costs of the case) This caravan park note, is worth so much now that if they choose to sell it is beyond the reach of most individuals pockets. People tend to forget the caravan park when the inheritance is mentioned.
So I would replace the word "scapegoat" with the word "motive". By mentioning motive I am in no way accusing the relatives of deliberately going out of their way to pervert the course of justice. What I am saying is that they certainly had motive for doing so. I am using the imotive word in a passive sense just to emphasise the fact that IF they were so inclined there was opportunity for them to do this?
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Yes Lugg, it is true that human nature has the capacity to believe that which it would like to believe. I am sure the extended family were devastated and another symptom of trauma is a need to get control. Unfortunately, Jeremy became the focus of their need to control. No doubt various reasons apart from the obvious one that they didnt like him much . Even their dislike of JB chould have stemmed unconsciously from the fact he was 'not one of them' I wonder if the same events had ocurred and Jeremy would have had the Speakman blood coursing through his veins whether they would have found it so easy to accuse him?
I'd like to bet they wouldn't, tho they will always deny it and really believe it. imo
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Steve uk, Whomever you are, please keep digging the 'deep hole'. IMO you don't require a bigger shovel.
It reminds me of 1WW, Bairnsfeather's (of The Bystander) cartoon:- 'If you know of a better 'ole, go to it!'.
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Steve uk, Whomever you are, please keep digging the 'deep hole'. IMO you don't require a bigger shovel.
It reminds me of 1WW, Bairnsfeather's (of The Bystander) cartoon:- 'If you know of a better 'ole, go to it!'.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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I was speculating as to the nature and character of Jeremy's relationships and have come up with a short list of four candidates. It is to be noted that I have expressly disregarded the succession of one night stands,three in a bed romps at Bourtree Cottage and other similar dalliances to come up with a short list of four:
a) Suzette Ford
His first and possibly deepest love when a Jeremy devoid of and unharmed by the noxious substances which were to play such a pivotal role in his life for the worse, was at his physical peak. Such a relief to find a mature yet bubbly woman who fulfilled Jeremy's physical side and who satisfied this role without demanding anything from him. The downside of course was that she came with the baggage of marriage and children,yet this was possibly an attraction for Jeremy who was putting a toe in the water in social mores and did not want to commit. By all intents and purposes he had a good relationship with her three children and was devastated when the efforts to conceive a child of their own ended in miscarriage.
b) Julie Mugford
After Suzette went back to her husband Jeremy possibly wants a foil as a partner rather than a rival. Has been dumped by a blonde so chooses a brunette. Julie is guarded in his presence and lets Jeremy take the lead. She is physically attracted to him before she becomes aware of his inheritance. She is eager to please at all times and goes out of the way to be the ersatz mother Jeremy never had. She is blinded to his evil scheme by wanting to please him,and thrown off the scent by what she perceives as his practical jokes which she puts down to immaturity,yet she is willing to stay with him after having a bad experience with a male member of her family.
c) Anji Greaves
Jeremy had dated her sister I believe,but Anji wasn't interested until she got wind of Jeremy's forthcoming inheritance. Criticized Julie for "giving him mouth" after the murders when he needed support. Dumped him after the guilty verdict.
d) Brett Collins
A homosexual lover of Jeremy who caught him unawares as a young and inexperienced foreigner who never had any love or attention. Difficult to see what the attraction was as Brett's business experience turned out to running a sandwich bar in Auckland. He did have antiques knowledge,but let's be generous and say Jeremy was not at this stage planning to sell the family silver at Sotheby's and therefore needing a partner in crime.
Hi Steve_uk
None of them. He was only 24 yoa and had he not have been wrongfully incarcerated should have played the field until he was at least 30 yoa. 8) 8) 8)
JB is on record as saying he had two girlfriends. I assume he's referring to Suzette and JM. The affair with Anji Greaves was brief due to his wrongful incaceration. Who knows how this might have developed :-\
There's no evidence JB was promiscuous. Where's the evidence of pulling 'class' at top London nightspots? Wishful thinking perhaps...
According to JM's wit stat JB denied any sexual encounter at Bourtree where Charles Marsden was present. Whether an encounter took place or not or was somewhere in between who cares? JB hadn't made any firm commitment to JM in any shape or form. They were simply boyfriend and girlfriend who spent a lot of time apart: JM in London and JB in Essex. They had a relationship in their very early 20's for 18 months plus and it ended like millions all over the world, except JM didn't see it for what it was and JB paid the ultimate price.
JB is on record as saying he has never had a homosexual relationship. Again whether he did or didn't or somewhere in between who cares? According to EP when JB was arrested early morning at Sheila's flat (note 'Sheila's flat' not 'smart flat in a fashionable part of London') JB and Brett were found in separate beds. If they were lovers one might have expected to have found them cuddled up in the same bed :) :). Now you're going to tell us that JM said JB was a prolific snorer ::)
Who might Colin have been most happy with:
Sandra Ellison
Jill
Sheila Caffell
Girl from office had bunk up with at Sheila's 21st
Jan
Heather
Current wife
I hope his current wife :)
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Hi Steve_uk
None of them. He was only 24 yoa and had he not have been wrongfully incarcerated should have played the field until he was at least 30 yoa. 8) 8) 8)
JB is on record as saying he had two girlfriends. I assume he's referring to Suzette and JM. The affair with Anji Greaves was brief due to his wrongful incaceration. Who knows how this might have developed :-\
There's no evidence JB was promiscuous. Where's the evidence of pulling 'class' at top London nightspots? Wishful thinking perhaps...
According to JM's wit stat JB denied any sexual encounter at Bourtree where Charles Marsden was present. Whether an encounter took place or not or was somewhere in between who cares? JB hadn't made any firm commitment to JM in any shape or form. They were simply boyfriend and girlfriend who spent a lot of time apart: JM in London and JB in Essex. They had a relationship in their very early 20's for 18 months plus and it ended like millions all over the world, except JM didn't see it for what it was and JB paid the ultimate price.
JB is on record as saying he has never had a homosexual relationship. Again whether he did or didn't or somewhere in between who cares? According to EP when JB was arrested early morning at Sheila's flat (note 'Sheila's flat' not 'smart flat in a fashionable part of London') JB and Brett were found in separate beds. If they were lovers one might have expected to have found them cuddled up in the same bed :) :). Now you're going to tell us that JM said JB was a prolific snorer ::)
Who might Colin have been most happy with:
Sandra Ellison
Jill
Sheila Caffell
Girl from office had bunk up with at Sheila's 21st
Jan
Heather
Current wife
I hope his current wife :)
Well posted NUNU.....Too many things get twisted and sensationalized....
I wonder who I would have been happier with? Not the turkey nicker that's sure lol :) :) :) :)
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In reply to #14 I had at first ruled out any parallels with Ted Bundy,but a reading of Wikipedia elicited the following:
1) Ted is born of uncertain parentage and is labelled "The Bastard" by contemporaries.
2)He was raised by his grandmother who periodically underwent electroconvulsive therapy for depression.
3)He complained about his stepfather,telling a girlfriend "he didn't make much money".
4)He was arrested twice on suspicion of burglary.
5)He had a love-hate relationship with one of his early girlfriends,Stephanie Brooks.
6)Divided professional psychiatric opinion.
7)Always careful not to leave forensic evidence at the scene of a crime and refused to confess right until the end.
Hi Steve_uk
I see you've now moved away from Oswald and Breivik to Bundy.
As far as I can see the only other high profile case that is similar to JB is that of David Bain who was subsequently acquitted :) :).
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Steve uk, Whomever you are, please keep digging the 'deep hole'. IMO you don't require a bigger shovel.
It reminds me of 1WW, Bairnsfeather's (of The Bystander) cartoon:- 'If you know of a better 'ole, go to it!'.
Let's not go down the cartoon route again..suffice to say the person involved did herself no favours last time one was depicted. As for Ted Bundy,the parallels mentioned are valid.
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Hi Steve_uk
I see you've now moved away from Oswald and Breivik to Bundy.
As far as I can see the only other high profile case that is similar to JB is that of David Bain who was subsequently acquitted :) :).
Ted Bundy was brought up by another member which was why I began to discuss it. I will be lenient on this occasion as you have aroused my interest in the David Bain case which may well be my next good read.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bain
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Ted Bundy was brought up by another member which was why I began to discuss it. I will be lenient on this occasion as you have aroused my interest in the David Bain case which may well be my next good read.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bain
Lenient? Oh thanks Steve we're all very grateful I'm sure ;D ;D ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D. I'm already reading Trial by Ambush (by Joe Karam)!!
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In reply to #14 I had at first ruled out any parallels with Ted Bundy,but a reading of Wikipedia elicited the following:
1) Ted is born of uncertain parentage and is labelled "The Bastard" by contemporaries.
2)He was raised by his grandmother who periodically underwent electroconvulsive therapy for depression.
3)He complained about his stepfather,telling a girlfriend "he didn't make much money".
4)He was arrested twice on suspicion of burglary.
5)He had a love-hate relationship with one of his early girlfriends,Stephanie Brooks.
6)Divided professional psychiatric opinion.
7)Always careful not to leave forensic evidence at the scene of a crime and refused to confess right until the end.
How is the above a reply to my post? Is that why you didn't quote it so you could make up your own answer that bares no relation to the point I made?
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How is the above a reply to my post? Is that why you didn't quote it so you could make up your own answer that bares no relation to the point I made?
Funny that Caroline, I am feeling the same about Steve's reply to me. :o
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How is the above a reply to my post? Is that why you didn't quote it so you could make up your own answer that bares no relation to the point I made?
Well maybe Jeremy Bamber has captured the imagination of a small minority of the general public,but like several other alleged miscarriages of justices(Eddie Gilfoyle,Jonathan Jones,Sheila Bowler,Lisa and Michelle Taylor)they're all guilty to my mind.
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Well maybe Jeremy Bamber has captured the imagination of a small minority of the general public,but like several other alleged miscarriages of justices(Eddie Gilfoyle,Jonathan Jones,Sheila Bowler,Lisa and Michelle Taylor)they're all guilty to my mind.
Steve, is MoJ something you don't believe exists?
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Well maybe Jeremy Bamber has captured the imagination of a small minority of the general public,but like several other alleged miscarriages of justices(Eddie Gilfoyle,Jonathan Jones,Sheila Bowler,Lisa and Michelle Taylor)they're all guilty to my mind.
What about Barry George, Steve? is he guilty?
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Steve, is MoJ something you don't believe exists?
Allegedly:
Eddie Gilfoyle had his wife writing suicide letters in her hand,possibly knowing an incident many years earlier in which she had contemplated suicide.
Jonathan Jones-the poor man's Jeremy Bamber shot his in-laws in a cowshed in Wales,embittered by foreclosure of his flat in Orpington.
Sheila Bowler pushed her deceased husband's aunt into the River Brede to avoid the nursing home fees which could be spent on her daughter's music tuition.
Lisa and Michelle Taylor were guilty of a joint enterprise where one kept lookout whilst another climbed stairs to their love rival's flat and battered her to death.
David Bain killed five family members one morning-no alibi for a 20 minute period-bruising on his body,fibres found under one of the victim's fingernails matching his jumper,David's bloody gloves found under the bed of another victim.
I'm afraid many of you are incredibly naive or far too trusting of human nature. In this category I include prison guards themselves who become unsettled with a long incarceration,which is the reason why these original verdicts are overturned as "unsafe",not because there is cartloads of evidence against them being as guilty as hell.
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What about Barry George, Steve? is he guilty?
Has steve said he thinks Barry George guilty?
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It's not niaive to search for the truth Steve. I would rather think it was the civilised way to behave. Surely you accept that police and the legal system is only as good as the people entrusted with it and they have been found wanting time and time again. Imo
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Has steve said he thinks Barry George guilty?
Not yet Andrea. But I fear Steve thinks we are all a bit guilty.....except him of course. ;D
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Not yet Andrea. But I fear Steve thinks we are all a bit guilty.....except him of course. ;D
He has not yet answered my question about whether he believes there are any MoJ's.
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He has not yet answered my question about whether he believes there are any MoJ's.
April, do you think he is a member of the house of commons? lol :D :D :D :D
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Has steve said he thinks Barry George guilty?
No but he probably does! :)
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He has not yet answered my question about whether he believes there are any MoJ's.
I thibk Steve has run away. 8)
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Well maybe Jeremy Bamber has captured the imagination of a small minority of the general public,but like several other alleged miscarriages of justices(Eddie Gilfoyle,Jonathan Jones,Sheila Bowler,Lisa and Michelle Taylor)they're all guilty to my mind.
Emphasis being on the BOLD! However, that answer STILL has nothing to do with the point originally discussed where you suggested that as JB's 'looks' diminish into those of an older man, that so would his support! This is a little childish IMO given that he also has a lot of male supporters (or are you suggesting they are all gay?) and as new things have come to light (and as JB gets older), he has gathered more support!! His looks have nothing to do with how MOST of us view his position and any such support in the beginning would quickly have burned out. This is why I get frustrated with SOME of your posts Steve because you make such sweeping statements and then abandon them or just change the subject when people take the trouble to respond! I don't get it??
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April, do you think he is a member of the house of commons? lol :D :D :D :D
Patti, politicians do have an ability to side step questions they don't want to answer, don't they, and come to think of it, many are lawyers before they become politicians. What do you think that means? One thing I think is certain, though. Not many are teachers first because if they were they'd be unable to resist answering the question. ;D ;D
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Allegedly:
Eddie Gilfoyle had his wife writing suicide letters in her hand,possibly knowing an incident many years earlier in which she had contemplated suicide.
Jonathan Jones-the poor man's Jeremy Bamber shot his in-laws in a cowshed in Wales,embittered by foreclosure of his flat in Orpington.
Sheila Bowler pushed her deceased husband's aunt into the River Brede to avoid the nursing home fees which could be spent on her daughter's music tuition.
Lisa and Michelle Taylor were guilty of a joint enterprise where one kept lookout whilst another climbed stairs to their love rival's flat and battered her to death.
David Bain killed five family members one morning-no alibi for a 20 minute period-bruising on his body,fibres found under one of the victim's fingernails matching his jumper,David's bloody gloves found under the bed of another victim.
I'm afraid many of you are incredibly naive or far too trusting of human nature. In this category I include prison guards themselves who become unsettled with a long incarceration,which is the reason why these original verdicts are overturned as "unsafe",not because there is cartloads of evidence against them being as guilty as hell.
Errrr, I beg to differ!! You've only just dragged this name from one of your internet searches - this case is a LOT more complicated!! But don't let the truth get in the way of your fire and brimstone attitude!!
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Emphasis being on the BOLD! However, that answer STILL has nothing to do with the point originally discussed where you suggested that as JB's 'looks' diminish into those of an older man, that so would his support! This is a little childish IMO given that he also has a lot of male supporters (or are you suggesting they are all gay?) and as new things have come to light (and as JB gets older), he has gathered more support!! His looks have nothing to do with how MOST of us view his position and any such support in the beginning would quickly have burned out. This is why I get frustrated with SOME of your posts Steve because you make such sweeping statements and then abandon them or just change the subject when people take the trouble to respond! I don't get it??
Very true Caroline, Steve suggests that we are shallow and states we are niaive.
However, if JB is innocent it is a tragedy to watch a young man gradually aging year after year in prison.imo
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Patti, politicians do have an ability to side step questions they don't want to answer, don't they, and come to think of it, many are lawyers before they become politicians. What do you think that means? One thing I think is certain, though. Not many are teachers first because if they were they'd be unable to resist answering the question. ;D ;D
HoHoHo ;D ;D
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Patti, politicians do have an ability to side step questions they don't want to answer, don't they, and come to think of it, many are lawyers before they become politicians. What do you think that means? One thing I think is certain, though. Not many are teachers first because if they were they'd be unable to resist answering the question. ;D ;D
Not sure April......I am leaving Steve alone, cos if I don't I will ruin maggies boots...lol :D :D :D :D
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Very true Caroline, Steve suggests that we are shallow and states we are niaive.
However, if JB is innocent it is a tragedy to watch a young man gradually aging year after year in prison.imo
I'm actually quite shocked by his recent posts and not in a good way!
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Very true Caroline, Steve suggests that we are shallow and states we are niaive.
However, if JB is innocent it is a tragedy to watch a young man gradually aging year after year in prison.imo
Might I detect something of a "don't rock the boat" attitude about Steve?
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I'm actually quite shocked by his recent posts and not in a good way!
Clearly provocation works, Caroline. It could be that when he finds himself backed into a corner, he provokes his way out 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Errrr, I beg to differ!! You've only just dragged this name from one of your internet searches - this case is a LOT more complicated!! But don't let the truth get in the way of your fire and brimstone attitude!!
You're correct on that one particular case,and obviously as Jeremy plays the long haul game he will sell more newspapers. I'm afraid that's the top and bottom of it.http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/blog/was-there-really-enough-doubt-to-find-david-bain-not-guilty
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You're correct on that one particular case,and obviously as Jeremy plays the long haul game he will sell more newspapers. I'm afraid that's the top and bottom of it.http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/blog/was-there-really-enough-doubt-to-find-david-bain-not-guilty
Steve, are you saying you've made a snap decision on something you've only just read and only know one side of? Also, did you not say very recently that as Jeremy ages and in your opinion becomes less attractive, interest in him will wane.
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Very true Caroline, Steve suggests that we are shallow and states we are niaive.
However, if JB is innocent it is a tragedy to watch a young man gradually aging year after year in prison.imo
Shallow and naive? Interesting view from someone whose life consists of reading novels. ::)
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Steve, are you saying you've made a snap decision on something you've only just read and only know one side of? Also, did you not say very recently that as Jeremy ages and in your opinion becomes less attractive, interest in him will wane.
He knows nothing about the case April ;D
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He knows nothing about the case April ;D
Neither do I, but I can;t half tell a story...lol :) :) :) :)
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Here is a little snippet from the blog you pasted a link to ......
"he clearly said,three times,that all his family were dead.So why did he later tell a detective that he only saw his mother and father?He couldn't explain to that detective why he said on the phone that all his family were dead when he only saw his mother and father.Did the jury believe that it might have been delayed shock that made him forget he had seen all his family as he was to remember later.But then if it was shock then why was he able to remember seeing his mother and father?I wonder what the jury thought about that"
Now, doesn't that sound VERY familiar? You don't believe that David (who would have been in extreme shock) was confused about how many of his family were dead but you're willing to accept that a professional group of police officers were confused and incapable of relaying and documenting the correct information? And even going so far as to mistake Neville for a woman?
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Here is a little snippet from the blog you pasted a link to ......
"he clearly said,three times,that all his family were dead.So why did he later tell a detective that he only saw his mother and father?He couldn't explain to that detective why he said on the phone that all his family were dead when he only saw his mother and father.Did the jury believe that it might have been delayed shock that made him forget he had seen all his family as he was to remember later.But then if it was shock then why was he able to remember seeing his mother and father?I wonder what the jury thought about that"
Now, doesn't that sound VERY familiar? You don't believe that David (who would have been in extreme shock) was confused about how many of his family were dead but you're willing to accept that a professional group of police officers were confused and incapable of relaying and documenting the correct information?
Who is Daivd? Just curious! lol :D :D :D
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Who is Daivd? Just curious! lol :D :D :D
Patti, I think Caroline means David Bain. Am I right Caroline?
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Patti, I think Caroline means David Bain. Am I right Caroline?
thank you maggie....I am a tad slow tonight...someone keeps sending me PM's hahahahhaha :) :) :)
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Neither do I, but I can;t half tell a story...lol :) :) :) :)
It is VERY similar to the WHF murders Patti - David Bain was convicted of killing his entire family in 1996 with a .22 rifle (with silencer attached) and spent 13 years in prison. Initially, it was thought to be 4 murders carried out by his father who then committed suicide. The police investigation and his subsequent trial was (like JB's) and absolute shambles, he lost an appeal in 2003 but the Privy Council overturned the court of appeal decision and he was released in 2009.
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thank you maggie....I am a tad slow tonight...someone keeps sending me PM's hahahahhaha :) :) :)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Patti, I think Caroline means David Bain. Am I right Caroline?
Aye, aye!! :)
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It is VERY similar to the WHF murders Patti - David Bain was convicted of killing his entire family in 1996 with a .22 rifle (with silencer attached) and spent 13 years in prison. Initially, it was thought to be 4 murders carried out by his father who then committed suicide. The police investigation and his subsequent trial was (like JB's) and absolute shambles, he lost an appeal in 2003 but the Privy Council overturned the court of appeal decision and he was released in 2009.
It was a really strange case Caroline and soooo like WHF......uncanny really.
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I have previously looked quite deeply into the Bain case and I believe him to be guilty.Lots of evidence imo,whereas in the Bamber case there appears to be none.
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I have previously looked quite deeply into the Bain case and I believe him to be guilty.Lots of evidence imo,whereas in the Bamber case there appears to be none.
Really tyler, you think David Bain's guilty. I have read about the case but dont onow enough to have an opinion. Maybe I should look more closely. 8)
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Steve, are you saying you've made a snap decision on something you've only just read and only know one side of? Also, did you not say very recently that as Jeremy ages and in your opinion becomes less attractive, interest in him will wane.
No I did recall the case vaguely.
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No I did recall the case vaguely.
Please address your accusation in regards to JB's looks fading!!
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Some people will lose interest as the glamour of the personage involved fades,others will try to write books and articles which sell newspapers and therefore generate profit for their organization. I think the Jeremy Bamber case parallels with David Bain are superficial,as there is just far too much forensic evidence in the latter case (if the article I quoted is accurate) which ties David in with the murders.
Why do none of these people ever have a cast-iron alibi? Why do they drive elderly aunts around until darkness arrives(Sheila Bowler), pretend they were walking the streets of Orpington for hours(Jonathan Jones),have a window of opportunity of 20 minutes in David Bain's case or can slip out of work undetected to put a noose around your wife's head(Eddie Gilfoyle)?
Or in Jeremy Bamber's case be in close proximity of the scene of the crime with the modern-day gadgets of the time to concoct a tissue of lies for Police,whom Jeremy made his alibi.
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Some people will lose interest as the glamour of the personage involved fades,others will try to write books and articles which sell newspapers and therefore generate profit for their organization. I think the Jeremy Bamber case parallels with David Bain are superficial,as there is just far too much forensic evidence in the latter case (if the article I quoted is accurate) which ties David in with the murders.
Why do none of these people ever have a cast-iron alibi? Why do they drive elderly aunts around until darkness arrives(Sheila Bowler), pretend they were walking the streets of Orpington for hours(Jonathan Jones),have a window of opportunity of 20 minutes in David Bain's case or can slip out of work undetected to put a noose around your wife's head(Eddie Gilfoyle)?
Or in Jeremy Bamber's case be in close proximity of the scene of the crime with the modern-day gadgets of the time to concoct a tissue of lies for Police,whom Jeremy made his alibi.
Thank you for answering Steve!
Firstly, no, the evidence in the 'blog' you posted is not exactly accurate and if you read the book I quoted you will understand why. Sometimes these things just aren't black and white and while I am less sure about Bain, I take your point about the forensics but must also stress that it also depends how the findings are presented and in the Bain case, the trial was a shambles. The evidence was ambiguous (IMO) but I will wait until you have read the book - it's worth investing in and I would be 'genuinely' interested in your NO FRILLS opinion!!
Suspects don't 'always' have a cast iron alibi because if they did, they would never be 'suspects'. It's the very fact that some of these people don't, that makes their 'guilt' questionable!! If you were going to commit murder, wouldn't you FIRST make sure you had an alibi?
I must also add that I can't believe you feel Sheila Bowler to be guilty! The rest I don't know much about .....
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Thank you for answering Steve!
Firstly, no, the evidence in the 'blog' you posted is not exactly accurate and if you read the book I quoted you will understand why. Sometimes these things just aren't black and white and while I am less sure about Bain, I take your point about the forensics but must also stress that it also depends how the findings are presented and in the Bain case, the trial was a shambles. The evidence was ambiguous (IMO) but I will wait until you have read the book - it's worth investing in and I would be 'genuinely' interested in your NO FRILLS opinion!!
Suspects don't 'always' have a cast iron alibi because if they did, they would never be 'suspects'. It's the very fact that some of these people don't, that makes their 'guilt' questionable!! If you were going to commit murder, wouldn't you FIRST make sure you had an alibi?
I must also add that I can't believe you feel Sheila Bowler to be guilty! The rest I don't know much about .....
(Just to note that usually I wouldn't recommend a book but the one I quoted has an extensive bibliography and sources are easily referenced! )
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Mike do you stand by the remarks made two years ago that the 12 bore shotgun was discharged in the kitchen,given that now you have introduced the locked thread of Police themselves firing at Sheila in that area? http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=96.0
Steve, I've fixed your link
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Mike do you stand by the remarks made two years ago that the 12 bore shotgun was discharged in the kitchen,given that now you have introduced the locked thread of Police themselves firing at Sheila in that area? http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=96.0
Steve, I've fixed your link
Thank you Caroline. Now if Ralph (Neville) normally sleeps with a 12 bore shotgun under his bed and is involved in an altercation with Sheila which involves the gun being discharged outside at 10:30pm why does Neville then replace this gun in the den and not take it back with him upstairs after watching News at Ten with his gin and tonic..
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Thank you Caroline. Now if Ralph (Neville) normally sleeps with a 12 bore shotgun under his bed and is involved in an altercation with Sheila which involves the gun being discharged outside at 10:30pm why does Neville then replace this gun in the den and not take it back with him upstairs after watching News at Ten with his gin and tonic..
Did he drink gin and tonic that night?
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Morning Lugg Good New Year. As far as I know most people have a gin and tonic or a wee dram whilst watching news at 10. My New Year Resolution is to be serious :D :D :D
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A bit more seriousness would not go amiss amid all the froth of the past few days,now the festive period is coming to an end.
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A bit more seriousness would not go amiss amid all the froth of the past few days,now the festive period is coming to an end.
tsk! Have you smiled at all this season Steve? Have you not been at least slightly happy. ;) ;) ;) ;)
Happy New Year to yer!
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tsk! Have you smiled at all this season Steve? Have you not been at least slightly happy. ;) ;) ;) ;)
Happy New Year to yer!
It will be nice when everyone's compos mentis again.
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Thank you Caroline. Now if Ralph (Neville) normally sleeps with a 12 bore shotgun under his bed and is involved in an altercation with Sheila which involves the gun being discharged outside at 10:30pm why does Neville then replace this gun in the den and not take it back with him upstairs after watching News at Ten with his gin and tonic..
Hi Steve, can't take the credit, I think it was Roch who fixed it.
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It will be nice when everyone's compos mentis again.
Steve I can'r be serious all the time, its good to have a wee bit of fun sometimes. But I do agree that it should be done off topic....Hands up for spoiling some thread my self. I find it helps me concentrate more, if I take a break from being serious now and again. :) :) :)
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Steve I can'r be serious all the time, its good to have a wee bit of fun sometimes. But I do agree that it should be done off topic....Hands up for spoiling some thread my self. I find it helps me concentrate more, if I take a break from being serious now and again. :) :) :)
If Steve were honest he would admit to most of his writings to be the subject of much mirth. ::)
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Re:disrupting threads.I would like to apologise for the crude individual that (very obviously) hacked my account on New Years Eve.Unforgiveable!!
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Re:disrupting threads.I would like to apologise for the crude individual that (very obviously) hacked my account on New Years Eve.Unforgiveable!!
;D What was his name, Al Cahole?
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Morning Lugg how was tyler's account hacked do you know. Was it her posts you know I need everything explaining to me. :)
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Morning Lugg how was tyler's account hacked do you know. Was it her posts you know I need everything explaining to me. :)
Nah. She was just trying to find an excuse for her posts on new years eve. ;D
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H Lugg
What a little innocent I am ;D
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Re:disrupting threads.I would like to apologise for the crude individual that (very obviously) hacked my account on New Years Eve.Unforgiveable!!
Tyler,,someone tried to hack mine too,last week,,but fortunately,I got a warning thanks to my " bug-killer ".
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Hello lookout how are ya. Just to say Happy New Year hope you had a good festive season. :)
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Hello lookout how are ya. Just to say Happy New Year hope you had a good festive season. :)
Aww,hello Susan. Yes,I had a good New Year,with daughter ringing at midnight our time.Her and the family had celebrated near the Harbour Bridge and watched their fantastic firework display.
Hope you too enjoyed the festive season.Good job it's only once a year. :)