Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on December 19, 2012, 07:23:AM

Title: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mike tesko on December 19, 2012, 07:23:AM
One important feature worth considering, is that whilst Jeremy was speaking to the police, is that the operator was asked to check the line, and she reported that she could hear a dog going berserk and barking...

Why would a dog be going berserk inside the farmhouse with everyone already dead, and Jeremy at his cottage speaking to the police, and the occupants of CA07 still en route to the incident?
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mike tesko on December 19, 2012, 08:17:AM
A dog does not bark for nothing...

There must have been someone moving around inside the farmhouse when the operator checked the telephone line originally...
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mike tesko on December 19, 2012, 08:29:AM
A dog does not bark for nothing...

There must have been someone moving around inside the farmhouse when the operator checked the telephone line originally...

Dog inside house was still barking when occupants of CA07 arrived at the scene (3:48am), and when Bews, Myall and Jeremy went to check the house prior to 4:02am...
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Lugg on December 19, 2012, 09:36:AM
Good observations Mike.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Jane on December 19, 2012, 10:57:AM
A dog does not bark for nothing...

There must have been someone moving around inside the farmhouse when the operator checked the telephone line originally...


It also doesn't equate with the dog cowering under the bed and shaking with terror because it smelled death...........but it MAY have smelled policemen and taken cover from them ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: lookout on December 19, 2012, 12:09:PM
Well said and thought out,Mike. It makes even more sense.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: lookout on December 19, 2012, 12:10:PM
People are that busy pinning the blame on Jeremy,,that small observations like that go unnoticed.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Nickos on December 19, 2012, 12:27:PM
A dog does not bark for nothing...

There must have been someone moving around inside the farmhouse when the operator checked the telephone line originally...

Small dogs are commonly yappy.

Having witnessed the shootings it was clearly traumatised, and on edge.

So the little dog may having been barking at the dead bodies and the smell of cordite, and continued barking having heard (dogs, as we know, have fairly acute hearing) the police and JB turn up (after all car tyres /engine noise in the lane would have been heard (an upstairs window was open), and JB and EP did skirt the parameter of whf on arrival – nothing to point at SC still being alive here – imo
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: susan on December 19, 2012, 01:31:PM
Hi Nickos

please be an absolute pet and respond to my rather long post of yesterday afternoon.   I really value your opinion.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Nickos on December 19, 2012, 01:55:PM
Hi Nickos

please be an absolute pet and respond to my rather long post of yesterday afternoon.   I really value your opinion.

Hi Susan, I have!!

See Re Jeremys Phone Calls # 714 Yesterday 9:02pm
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: susan on December 19, 2012, 01:57:PM
Hi Nickos  sorry for missing your reply I am away doing more important things at that time.  I am off now to read it.  Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: tyler on December 19, 2012, 02:22:PM
Small dogs are commonly yappy.

Having witnessed the shootings it was clearly traumatised, and on edge.

So the little dog may having been barking at the dead bodies and the smell of cordite, and continued barking having heard (dogs, as we know, have fairly acute hearing) the police and JB turn up (after all car tyres /engine in the lane would have been heard (an upstairs window was open), and JB and EP did skirt the parameter of whf on arrival – nothing to point at SC still being alive here – imo
I would say that dogs have more than fairly acute hearing.I think that this is even more so when a dog is unable to see,and therefore has to rely on it's hearing.Forget Crispy for one moment and consider the Labrador that was shut in the shed. Wouldn't he have alerted the Bambers that somebody was prowling around?
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Nickos on December 19, 2012, 03:04:PM
I would say that dogs have more than fairly acute hearing.I think that this is even more so when a dog is unable to see,and therefore has to rely on it's hearing.Forget Crispy for one moment and consider the Labrador that was shut in the shed. Wouldn't he have alerted the Bambers that somebody was prowling around?

Do we know if the labrador start barking when EP & then JB turned up at whf? I only ever hear it was Crispy barking!

Maybe the lab was not a barker?
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: lookout on December 19, 2012, 04:09:PM
Do we know if the labrador start barking when EP & then JB turned up at whf? I only ever hear it was Crispy barking!

Maybe the lab was not a barker?

Pity it hadn't been a Rottweiler.They don't bark------------------they pounce instead,quietly and stealthily.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: tyler on December 19, 2012, 04:33:PM
Do we know if the labrador start barking when EP & then JB turned up at whf? I only ever hear it was Crispy barking!

Maybe the lab was not a barker?
Hi Nikos.........yes they were both said to have been barking.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: susan on December 19, 2012, 04:38:PM
Hi tyler  I think the outside Lab would have barked if anyone arrived at the farm in the early hours they have super sensitive hearing that would have set Crispy off and Ralph and June would have been awoken before the intruder had chance to arm himself take the phone off the hook and proceed upstairs.  Does not make any sense to me.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: susan on December 19, 2012, 04:44:PM
Hi tyler does anyone know the explanation the Prosecution gave in Court as to how Jeremy carried out these murders.  I have decided now to concentrate on not who did the murders but who did'ent.  Any ideas.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Nickos on December 19, 2012, 04:47:PM
Hi tyler does anyone know the explanation the Prosecution gave in Court as to how Jeremy carried out these murders.  I have decided now to concentrate on not who did the murders but who did'ent.  Any ideas.

Sheila didn't - that just leaves JB  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: susan on December 19, 2012, 04:52:PM
Nickos you are being somewhat evasive.  I was wondering what the Prosecution thought about how he carried out the murders you have told me your theory which I am immensly thankful for as you have put quite a few good ideas in my head. :)
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mike tesko on December 20, 2012, 06:30:AM
Small dogs are commonly yappy.

Having witnessed the shootings it was clearly traumatised, and on edge.

So the little dog may having been barking at the dead bodies and the smell of cordite, and continued barking having heard (dogs, as we know, have fairly acute hearing) the police and JB turn up (after all car tyres /engine noise in the lane would have been heard (an upstairs window was open), and JB and EP did skirt the parameter of whf on arrival – nothing to point at SC still being alive here – imo

Dog was heard to be barking before the arrival of police, or Jeremy - when operator checked telephone line (before police were deployed to the scene)...
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Lundey on December 20, 2012, 06:43:PM
It would be useful to know more about the dog/dogs at White House Farm - their character, temperament, whether they were just pets or working dogs, what type of dogs they were, where they slept and where they were found on the morning of the shootings.  There's probably a thread somewhere that I've not yet come across (I'm working backwards from page 129 and trying to read everything!). 
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: susan on December 20, 2012, 06:52:PM
Hi Lundey  As far as I am aware the outside dog was a working Lab and was found a new home after the murders.  Crispy was an inside dog quite old and snappy and it would appear that Jeremy and Crispy were not best pals. Crispy was put to sleep after the murders as she/ probably a he was not fit to be found a new home as the doggie was old and bad tempered.  The Lab stayed in a shed outside.  Crispy was found when the police entered the farm hiding under the bed as dogs do not like gun shots unless they are trained to the gun.  Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Boo on December 20, 2012, 06:58:PM
Hi Lundey  As far as I am aware the outside dog was a working Lab and was found a new home after the murders.  Crispy was an inside dog quite old and snappy and it would appear that Jeremy and Crispy were not best pals. Crispy was put to sleep after the murders as she/ probably a he was not fit to be found a new home as the doggie was old and bad tempered.  The Lab stayed in a shed outside.  Crispy was found when the police entered the farm hiding under the bed as dogs do not like gun shots unless they are trained to the gun.  Hope that helps.
Wow poor Crispy was put down? That doesn't do JB any favours in my book  :'(
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Jane on December 20, 2012, 07:00:PM
Wow poor Crispy was put down? That doesn't do JB any favours in my book  :'(


Boo, we don't know for certain that it was JB's decision and there were plenty of rellies who COULD have taken him.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Boo on December 20, 2012, 08:23:PM

Boo, we don't know for certain that it was JB's decision and there were plenty of rellies who COULD have taken him.
I suppose so, but i doubt anyone would have made that decision without his agreement. Anyway it is a small point I suppose  :)
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Lugg on December 20, 2012, 11:49:PM
I suppose so, but i doubt anyone would have made that decision without his agreement. Anyway it is a small point I suppose  :)
You must remember that these were farming folk and therefore are not as sentimental as those of use who keep animals just as pets. If a dog was showing any signs of aggression  then it would have been put down. Vets were originally for farm animals and if a farm had an animal you can bet that they kept it for a reason and not just as a pet. As soon as an animal showed any sign of its age and the complaints that went with it that animal would have been put down. It is a daily and a necessary occurance on a farm. You can bet your bottom dollar that crispy was a working dog of some sort and was probably a watch dog. the yappie ones are the best. They can hear things that we humans would never hear and would have immediately have alerted the family to an intruder in the house and quite probably a long time before they even got into the house. Do not underestimate the usefulness of crispy.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: hourglass on December 20, 2012, 11:53:PM
You must remember that these were farming folk and therefore are not as sentimental as those of use who keep animals just as pets. If a dog was showing any signs of aggression  then it would have been put down. Vets were originally for farm animals and if a farm had an animal you can bet that they kept it for a reason and not just as a pet. As soon as an animal showed any sign of its age and the complaints that went with it that animal would have been put down. It is a daily and a necessary occurance on a farm. You can bet your bottom dollar that crispy was a working dog of some sort and was probably a watch dog. the yappie ones are the best. They can hear things that we humans would never hear and would have immediately have alerted the family to an intruder in the house and quite probably a long time before they even got into the house. Do not underestimate the usefulness of crispy.

Also not forget that Crispy was the only living witness to the massacre.  Also Crispy must also be innocent as arms to short to operate rifle even with silencer.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Lugg on December 20, 2012, 11:58:PM
Also not forget that Crispy was the only living witness to the massacre.  Also Crispy must also be innocent as arms to short to operate rifle even with silencer.
Yes XiLi, I think that it must be universally believed on this forum that crispy was just an innocent bystander. ::)
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mertol22 on December 21, 2012, 12:06:AM
if i did not know any better i believe this dog was barking at someone, i do know this if jeremy was the killer upon his return with the police that dog would be in a state of uncontrolled state of barking at him, to what i know , no such events took place, i feel this animal was barking at someone else.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: hourglass on December 21, 2012, 12:06:AM
Yes XiLi, I think that it must be universally believed on this forum that crispy was just an innocent bystander. ::)

Ah that is one name cleared anyway, I am pleased.

Pity Sheila not treated so sympathetically.  How her Hungry Ghost must scream for vengence.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mertol22 on December 21, 2012, 12:09:AM
Sheila may well have sent one spirit from one hell to another.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: hourglass on December 21, 2012, 12:10:AM
if i did not know any better i believe this dog was barking at someone, i do know this if jeremy was the killer upon his return with the police that dog would be in a state of uncontrolled state of barking at him, to what i know , no such events took place, i feel this animal was barking at someone else.

Anne Eaton statement says Crispy bit him and behaved unusually, which is what you would expect under the circumstances.  However I know that people here do not accept what AE says.  (So I do not know why I bothered saying it).
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: hourglass on December 21, 2012, 12:11:AM
Sheila may well have sent one spirit from one hell to another.

My language can be poetic.  In my culture the dead will have their vengence one way or another against all who wrong them.  That is why we treat them carefully.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mertol22 on December 21, 2012, 12:12:AM
dogs can bite out in anger , even when they are terminally ill they are more emotional than humans
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: hourglass on December 21, 2012, 12:15:AM
dogs can bite out in anger , even when they are terminally ill they are more emotional than humans

I did not know Crispy was terminally ill?  He was almost certianly pretty emotional though.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: andrea on December 21, 2012, 12:22:AM
I did not know Crispy was terminally ill?  He was almost certianly pretty emotional though.

He may have been kicked in the nuts.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mertol22 on December 21, 2012, 12:24:AM
I did not know Crispy was terminally ill?  He was almost certianly pretty emotional though.
it was a general thought, dogs can sense death
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: andrea on December 21, 2012, 12:27:AM
it was a general thought, dogs can sense death

They can, when my dad died, his dog Murdoch was howling like mad in the garden, he usually only ever barked and didnt howl, he did that day.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: andrea on December 21, 2012, 12:30:AM
Bed time! My feet are cold.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mertol22 on December 21, 2012, 12:32:AM
They can, when my dad died, his dog Murdoch was howling like mad in the garden, he usually only ever barked and didnt howl, he did that day.
ive had to tell dogs andrea that im taking your owner to a chapel of rest at 2am in the morning and they understood every word i said, ive seen dogs sat outside a funeral home all week knowing their owner is at rest inside.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: susan on December 21, 2012, 08:51:AM
Morning mertoll  you are making me so sad with your doggie stories and the death of their owners.  Dogs have a sixth sense and know much more than we think and that is why they should be given a little bit more respect other than having the p**s taken out of them all the time.  After all they are God's creatures as much as we are.  :(
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mertol22 on December 21, 2012, 10:23:AM
Morning mertoll  you are making me so sad with your doggie stories and the death of their owners.  Dogs have a sixth sense and know much more than we think and that is why they should be given a little bit more respect other than having the p**s taken out of them all the time.  After all they are God's creatures as much as we are.  :(
It now explains why i see cats roaming through a cemetery they like us are visiting a grave .
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: susan on December 21, 2012, 10:27:AM
Hi mertoll are you trying to put me into severe depression.  We as human beings could learn so much from animals if we had a mind to it.  They give love unconditional humans don't. :(
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: susan on December 21, 2012, 10:28:AM
sorry mertol missed out the very important word love.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Boo on December 21, 2012, 06:26:PM
You must remember that these were farming folk and therefore are not as sentimental as those of use who keep animals just as pets. If a dog was showing any signs of aggression  then it would have been put down. Vets were originally for farm animals and if a farm had an animal you can bet that they kept it for a reason and not just as a pet. As soon as an animal showed any sign of its age and the complaints that went with it that animal would have been put down. It is a daily and a necessary occurance on a farm. You can bet your bottom dollar that crispy was a working dog of some sort and was probably a watch dog. the yappie ones are the best. They can hear things that we humans would never hear and would have immediately have alerted the family to an intruder in the house and quite probably a long time before they even got into the house. Do not underestimate the usefulness of crispy.
Hi lugg, I have just seen this post, I can't keep up with the forum too well of late! You are absolutely right, it occurred to me after posting that a farm dog would naturally be considered differently, and in a much less emotional way than a pet
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mike tesko on December 21, 2012, 09:09:PM
Woof justice...
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: Steve_uk on December 21, 2012, 09:25:PM
One important feature worth considering, is that whilst Jeremy was speaking to the police, is that the operator was asked to check the line, and she reported that she could hear a dog going berserk and barking...

Why would a dog be going berserk inside the farmhouse with everyone already dead, and Jeremy at his cottage speaking to the police, and the occupants of CA07 still en route to the incident?
The dog wasn't going going berserk;it was emitting a whining sound Jeremy had hitherto not heard,because the dog had never before been left in the company of five dead souls.
Title: Re: Dog inside farmhouse, barking before police / Jeremy arrived at scene...
Post by: mertol22 on December 21, 2012, 11:22:PM
Hi lugg, I have just seen this post, I can't keep up with the forum too well of late! You are absolutely right, it occurred to me after posting that a farm dog would naturally be considered differently, and in a much less emotional way than a pet
Ive known dogs that i did not own knew me by my footsteps , there is no reason to be suprised if the dog also knew jeremy this way despite him not getting on with him, as to the dog barking/yapping i would expect nothing else with no family member to order him to  stop, so i cant see how jeremy could have been there.