Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Roch on December 05, 2012, 11:03:PM
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http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/new-information
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http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/new-information
Oh,wow,,brilliant. What about the chap from the Electric board who had a key to WHF in order to read the meter,,and who also gave a statement of his experience with Sheila.? His statement was never seen,or read out to the jury.
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The person seen down a track that night .
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http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/new-information
That wants tweeting to #Essex ? ? ? :) :) :)
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Don't forget the tramp emanating from the skylight..
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Don't forget the tramp emanating from the skylight..
Dear Steve,,,we won't be leaving a single stone unturned.
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That wants tweeting to #Essex ? ? ? :) :) :)
Tweet it around the Earth. :)
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Don't forget the tramp emanating from the skylight..
Irather think that you have forgotten what you read? As far as I remember a bent crooked figure was seen running away? What I am concerned about though is that tye police didn't make much of an effort to find this person?
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Fingers crossed!!
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Tweet it around the Earth. :)
I'm superwoman not superman....lol :) :) :) :)
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Lugg, Your Post #7
The crooked figure going across the farmyard.
I tried to elicit, from Vidvic, the approximate height of AP. He declined to say, even after some prompting. He did, as you may remember, elucidate that AP was familiarly referred to, by the opposed relatives, i.e. Boutflours, as Herr Otto Flick.
It is possible that I may have located and identified a picture of the recalcitrant 'Herr Flick'
In the Funeral Photographs. There is a tall person with a shock of hair, whom I would liken to Ralph, but half his age. He is next to a queenly little lady, who may well be his wife, Regina.
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I'm superwoman not superman....lol :) :) :) :)
Hope you're not implying she's inferior Patti....get twirling!! ;D ;D
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Hope you're not implying she's inferior Patti....get twirling!! ;D ;D
Hahahahaha I hope Roch is a he....he sounds horsey to me lolol :) :) :) :)
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Someone named "steelmagnolia" reported seeing a "hunched figure" making off across the fields as the police arrived
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Campion.........an interesting read re:Pargeter. :)
http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/2012_03_01_archive.html
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I don't get it! Why would Jeremy run the risk of losing Julie? Surely he would have done his utmost to keep her in good stance.....for if he didn't he would fear she might tell.....To me it doesn't make much sense :-\ :-\ :-\
Sorry for being off piste.... :)
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I don't get it! Why would Jeremy run the risk of losing Julie? Surely he would have done his utmost to keep her in good stance.....for if he didn't he would fear she might tell.....To me it doesn't make much sense :-\ :-\ :-\
Sorry for being off piste.... :)
Firstly he was relieved he had got away with murder,secondly he was cock-a-hoop at having outwitted DCI Taff Jones,thirdly he wanted to have a relationship with Anji Greaves.
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I don't get it! Why would Jeremy run the risk of losing Julie? Surely he would have done his utmost to keep her in good stance.....for if he didn't he would fear she might tell.....To me it doesn't make much sense :-\ :-\ :-\
Sorry for being off piste.... :)
I agree Patti, I think they broke up because they'd been through too much together. Contrary to myth, trauma tends to split people up rather than tie them closer together. You want to leave the trauma behind....make a new start and move forward on your ow. The tragedy finished jeremy and Julie imo. There was no where for the relationship to go.
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I agree Patti, I think they broke up because they'd been through too much together. Contrary to myth, trauma tends to split people up rather than tie them closer together. You want to leave the trauma behind....make a new start and move forward on your ow. The tragedy finished jeremy and Julie imo. There was no where for the relationship to go.
There are statements out there Maggie which say otherwise. You may think that they broke up because of that - but Julie says that isn't why they split up.....she was there.
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Firstly he was relieved he had got away with murder,secondly he was cock-a-hoop at having outwitted DCI Taff Jones,thirdly he wanted to have a relationship with Anji Greaves.
Hi Steve, that doesn't really answer my question :-\.....If you wanted to keep a secret like that you, would make sure that the one you shared that secret with never told anyone, by keeping her sweet....
She keeps the secret for 6 weeks, but when Jeremy doesn't want her she then and only then decides to tell? Sorry, but to me she disregarded the deaths of 5 people but did regarded the face she was rejected.....and tried to stab her own teddy in frustration....poor bloody teddy! What about the 5 humans? If she knew she should serve the save time....sorry, but my post might need moderating...
Not getting at you Steve....just voicing my opinion in a loud way.....you should see me when I'm angry...lol :) :) :) :)
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There are statements out there Maggie which say otherwise. You may think that they broke up because of that - but Julie says that isn't why they split up.....she was there.
I have read her statements mat thank you.but like Patti I dont believe Jeremy killed anyone. Julie told her tales when she was dumped. No woman would have behaved the way Julie did if she knew Jeremy had done it......unless she was a party to the murders. Imo
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I agree Patti, I think they broke up because they'd been through too much together. Contrary to myth, trauma tends to split people up rather than tie them closer together. You want to leave the trauma behind....make a new start and move forward on your ow. The tragedy finished jeremy and Julie imo. There was no where for the relationship to go.
She loved him though maggie....it hurt her when she found out he wanted to see another woman after being with her for two years. Not all people are the same when it comes to relationships and not all people have been through the same circumstances that they had....Its any ones guess! Suppose we wont ever know, because JM has never spoken about it since, well not to the press anyway.... :) :) :) :)
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Hi Steve, that doesn't really answer my question :-\.....If you wanted to keep a secret like that you, would make sure that the one you shared that secret with never told anyone, by keeping her sweet....
She keeps the secret for 6 weeks, but when Jeremy doesn't want her she then and only then decides to tell? Sorry, but to me she disregarded the deaths of 5 people but did regarded the face she was rejected.....and tried to stab her own teddy in frustration....poor bloody teddy! What about the 5 humans? If she knew she should serve the save time....sorry, but my post might need moderating...
Not getting at you Steve....just voicing my opinion in a loud way.....you should see me when I'm angry...lol :) :) :) :)
This murder get worse. First the family, then last night I read Jeremy had Crispy eliminated and now Julie's teddy! The body count is already higher than The Killing II.
In next episode Taff Jones gets killed...
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Firstly he was relieved he had got away with murder,secondly he was cock-a-hoop at having outwitted DCI Taff Jones,thirdly he wanted to have a relationship with Anji Greaves.
Well outwitting Taff Jones hardly put him in line for Mastermind.
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I have read her statements mat thank you.but like Patti I dont believe Jeremy killed anyone. Julie told her tales when she was dumped. No woman would have behaved the way Julie did if she knew Jeremy had done it......unless she was a party to the murders. Imo
Julie might well have thought there was evidence to charge her as an accessory. After all Jeremy had used her sleeping pills to try and drug Nevill,then there was the second telephone call early on the Wednesday morning. It was Liz Rimington who telephoned Witham Police Station stating that Julie was withholding evidence in the case,not Julie who voluntarily went to the Police.
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She loved him though maggie....it hurt her when she found out he wanted to see another woman after being with her for two years. Not all people are the same when it comes to relationships and not all people have been through the same circumstances that they had....Its any ones guess! Suppose we wont ever know, because JM has never spoken about it since, well not to the press anyway.... :) :) :) :)
I know Patti but you only have to see parents of prominent child murders they almost always divorce. Anyone whos been through a marriage or relationship where there is severe trauma more often than not find it has somehow ruined their relationship. I dont doubt she thought or did love him but Jeremy had to move on or he would be forever stuck in the trauma ...unfortunately julies actions did trap him there forever. Imo
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Julie might well have thought there was evidence to charge her as an accessory. After all Jeremy had used her sleeping pills to try and drug Nevill,then there was the second telephone call early on the Wednesday morning. It was Liz Rimington who telephoned Witham Police Station stating that Julie was withholding evidence in the case,not Julie who voluntarily went to the Police.
Did Julie tell the police in her statements that Jeremy had told her that he planned to SHOOT his family dead?
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Hi Steve, that doesn't really answer my question :-\.....If you wanted to keep a secret like that you, would make sure that the one you shared that secret with never told anyone, by keeping her sweet....
She keeps the secret for 6 weeks, but when Jeremy doesn't want her she then and only then decides to tell? Sorry, but to me she disregarded the deaths of 5 people but did regarded the face she was rejected.....and tried to stab her own teddy in frustration....poor bloody teddy! What about the 5 humans? If she knew she should serve the save time....sorry, but my post might need moderating...
Not getting at you Steve....just voicing my opinion in a loud way.....you should see me when I'm angry...lol :) :) :) :)
But she was interrogating him at every opportunity,which wasn't so many occasions as Brett was hanging around most of the time. The physical side of the relationship died as Julie became a reluctant bedfellow and realized he was in the aftermath a person devoid of any conscience.
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I agree Patti, I think they broke up because they'd been through too much together. Contrary to myth, trauma tends to split people up rather than tie them closer together. You want to leave the trauma behind....make a new start and move forward on your ow. The tragedy finished jeremy and Julie imo. There was no where for the relationship to go.
But doesn't this play against the theory that Julie is the spawned girlfriend? If they broke up because they wanted to leave trauma behind?
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But doesn't this play against the theory that Julie is the spawned girlfriend? If they broke up because they wanted to leave trauma behind?
I think you mean spurned Mat!!
I dont mean they decided to split up because of that but unconsciously the reason Jeremy wanted it over was probably the desire for a clean slate, a new start etc. Nothings cut and dried and he may not have even known why he was behaving that way....subconcious stuff.
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She loved him though maggie....it hurt her when she found out he wanted to see another woman after being with her for two years. Not all people are the same when it comes to relationships and not all people have been through the same circumstances that they had....Its any ones guess! Suppose we wont ever know, because JM has never spoken about it since, well not to the press anyway.... :) :) :) :)
She had that pang of conscience for not taking him seriously enforced upon that tabula rasa which had led to tragedy,and in a way she loved him enough not to want to see him go to prison. She rationalized in her own mind that the case had turned into four murders and a suicide and had not wanted to rock the boat by challenging DCI Taff Jones's authority. As I say she was ultimately forced into going to Police after her conversation with Liz Rimington during which the true circumstances of Jeremy's involvement in the murders emerged.
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I think you mean spurned Mat!!
I dont mean they decided to split up because of that but unconsciously the reason Jeremy wanted it over was probably the desire for a clean slate, a new start etc. Nothings cut and dried and he may not have even known why he was behaving that way....subconcious stuff.
Yes, Maggie, I did. Sorry it's late and I've read/written so much today that words are all forming into one.
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She had that pang of conscience for not taking him seriously enforced upon that tabula rasa which had led to tragedy,and in a way she loved him enough not to want to see him go to prison. She rationalized in her own mind that the case had turned into four murders and a suicide and had not wanted to rock the boat by challenging DCI Taff Jones's authority. As I say she was ultimately forced into going to Police after her conversation with Liz Rimington during which the true circumstances of Jeremy's involvement in the murders emerged.
Steve if she did not believe him after 2 years why did she claim to believe him after 6 weeks had past? Why did she not stop the crime? Why didn't she say something after she had viewed the bodies of 5 dead people? Why why why......If she had the pang for not taking his seriously then why after 6 weeks did she suddenly decide to do so? To rock the boat is under statement.
Anyway, good night to you and all....got to eat a marsh mellow.....as Lugg would say...ha! :) :) :) :) :)
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Steve uk.......you have fully read all of JM's statements? Did she tell the police that Jeremy told her he planned to shoot all of the family dead?
thank you in advance!
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Did Julie tell the police in her statements that Jeremy had told her that he planned to SHOOT his family dead?
Of course but this was related to a 20 year old girl whose tabula rasa did not imbibe the full import of what she was being told. She had been initially swept off her feet in the early days with Jeremy wooing her with flowers,chocolates and the honeymoon suite at luxury hotels and had possibly built up a picture in her mind of Jeremy as her infallible hero. How could this man who had been so generous and loving in a way no other man had been to her(remember Brett described him as "a big softie")harbour such wicked thoughts? However the nightmare became a reality as Julie became swept up in deceit,the only way ultimately to extricate herself being to betray the only man she had heretofore truly loved.
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Steve if she did not believe him after 2 years why did she claim to believe him after 6 weeks had past? Why did she not stop the crime? Why didn't she say something after she had viewed the bodies of 5 dead people? Why why why......If she had the pang for not taking his seriously then why after 6 weeks did she suddenly decide to do so? To rock the boat is under statement.
Anyway, good night to you and all....got to eat a marsh mellow.....as Lugg would say...ha! :) :) :) :) :)
Because the evil deed had been done. Julie knew she had had no hand in it and was not going to end up like Lady Macbeth. She did not want to go to the Police but events conspired to make that course the only outlet whereby she could extricate herself from Jeremy's wickedness.
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Agreed Steve. We are soft for men that are half-decent kind especially when we are young. It is only later in life we get experience and become cynical and realize that most men are only interested in one thing and that is not us.
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This is a ludicrous argument steve. No one in her right mind would have been able to look at him knowing what hed done. Remember she had seen the dead bodies, the results of his handiwork. If she knew he'd done it and went along with it she should have gone to prison too. There is no excuse for her behaviour. Imo
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That is something I never understand with this case.
Anne Eaton is sitting outside the morgue in the car, JM is doing the IDs of the bodies and JB is doing cartwheels down the highstreet to the solicitors to find out how much he inherit. The police take one look and decide they have got a suicide and sit around drinking Nevills whisky.
What was everyone thinking?
It is enough to make anyone emigrate to Canada.
Also I add I am no JM fan at all!
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This is a ludicrous argument steve. No one in her right mind would have been able to look at him knowing what hed done. Remember she had seen the dead bodies, the results of his handiwork. If she knew he'd done it and went along with it she should have gone to prison too. There is no excuse for her behaviour. Imo
But she was a young girl from the north of England whom one could in no way describe as being well versed in London's ways. Here she was faced with a situation where the official verdict as recorded by a Police force was "four murders and a suicide",so what was the likelihood that one individual could overturn it?
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That is something I never understand with this case.
Anne Eaton is sitting outside the morgue in the car, JM is doing the IDs of the bodies and JB is doing cartwheels down the highstreet to the solicitors to find out how much he inherit. The police take one look and decide they have got a suicide and sit around drinking Nevills whisky.
What was everyone thinking?
It is enough to make anyone emigrate to Canada.
Also I add I am no JM fan at all!
Hi XiLi. I don't think Tolleshunt D'Arcy has a high street? I'd like to have seen that. ;D
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Hi Lugg,
I not know, never been there, not sure I want to either. This whole thing just totally bizzare case. I spend all night reading statements last night and I cannot belive what I am reading. It is worse than Jeffery Archer Novel.
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That is something I never understand with this case.
Anne Eaton is sitting outside the morgue in the car, JM is doing the IDs of the bodies and JB is doing cartwheels down the highstreet to the solicitors to find out how much he inherit. The police take one look and decide they have got a suicide and sit around drinking Nevills whisky.
What was everyone thinking?
It is enough to make anyone emigrate to Canada.
Also I add I am no JM fan at all!
It was typical of the Zeitgeist of the times,whereby authoritarianism had a few months previously triumphed over the plebians of the miners,and Jeremy's plummy tones had hoodwinked DCI Taff Jones into believing what anyone inside the house could see with their own eyes. Of course Julie made mistakes,but so did many people involved in this case and it is unfair to single Julie out.
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Hi Steve, I agree to some extent, she was no angel and what she had to do that morning must have been life changing experience. She must have felt way out of her depth.
Id forgotten about Thatcher and the Miners.
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It was typical of the Zeitgeist of the times,whereby authoritarianism had a few months previously triumphed over the plebians of the miners,and Jeremy's plummy tones had hoodwinked DCI Taff Jones into believing what anyone inside the house could see with their own eyes. Of course Julie made mistakes,but so did many people involved in this case and it is unfair to single Julie out.
I hardly think Julie is being singled out steve, she was a pretty important player in this and had a responsibility like everyone else to the truth. If you excuse Julie for being an accessory because she was 'only 20' well then Jeremy was only 24 and women develop more quickly than guys so does he get an allowance too....apparently not.
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This is a ludicrous argument steve. No one in her right mind would have been able to look at him knowing what hed done. Remember she had seen the dead bodies, the results of his handiwork. If she knew he'd done it and went along with it she should have gone to prison too. There is no excuse for her behaviour. Imo
Hi Maggie, she also (according to her statement) told her friend Susan Battersby - what was Susan's motive for keeping quiet?
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Hi Steve, I agree to some extent, she was no angel and what she had to do that morning must have been life changing experience. She must have felt way out of her depth.
Id forgotten about Thatcher and the Miners.
No normal person could have done such a thing and then gone back and slept with the perpetrator. Come on hourglass do you believe she did that?
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I hardly think Julie is being singled out steve, she was a pretty important player in this and had a responsibility like everyone else to the truth. If you excuse Julie for being an accessory because she was 'only 20' well then Jeremy was only 24 and women develop more quickly than guys so does he get an allowance too....apparently not.
No because he was the instigator. In my view the germination of his wicked plan was the fantasies Sheila experienced in August 1983 concerning the twins. He had mulled over the idea in his mind and the wicked scheme of cycling along the sea wall under the pretext of checking the security of the caravan park slowly took shape. It was both a planned and a spur of the moment crime as the time had to be ripe,as it was in August 1985 with all five family members including his heirs and successors under one roof,a prerequisite for the crime,the previous occasion he had thought out loud about harming them being when he inadvertently blurted out to Charles Marsden that should the farm burn down at Christmas 1984 then everything would be his.
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Hi Maggie, Well personally I would have run all the way back to China at that point but I am resistant to saying what other people should do. I am trying to be polite by saying it must have been a life-changing experience for her. Later development shows that there was a parting of the ways with JB soon after. I do not know what power he had over her but clearly she could see what was going to happen if she stayed with him.
In China we say "You hitch your waggon to the horse and pray the horse knows where it is going." I think she understood where the horse was going at this point.
By this we mean when you get married....
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It was typical of the Zeitgeist of the times,whereby authoritarianism had a few months previously triumphed over the plebians of the miners,and Jeremy's plummy tones had hoodwinked DCI Taff Jones into believing what anyone inside the house could see with their own eyes. Of course Julie made mistakes,but so did many people involved in this case and it is unfair to single Julie out.
As someone who grew up in a mining area during Thatchers reign of terror and witnessed the tenacity and strength of character of the plebeian miners you refer to - I find your description a little offensive and find hard to understand what on earth this has to do with the events at WHF?
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No because he was the instigator. In my view the germination of his wicked plan was the fantasies Sheila experienced in August 1983 concerning the twins. He had mulled over the idea in his mind and the wicked scheme of cycling along the sea wall under the pretext of checking the security of the caravan park slowly took shape. It was both a planned and a spur of the moment crime as the time had to be ripe,as it was in August 1985 with all five family members including his heirs and successors under one roof,a prerequisite for the crime,the previous occasion he had thought out loud about harming them being when he inadvertently blurted out to Charles Marsden that should the farm burn down at Christmas 1984 then everything would be his.
I am speakng about a scenario where Jeremy comitted the murders so i such circumstances Jeremy obviously pays the biggest price but that doesn't mean Julie shouldnt carry resonsibility for her being an accessory before and after the crime. If Jeremy did it she aided and abetted him. How can you excuse her....5 people died and she neverraised a finger to stop it. Its not pretty steve however much you make excuses for her and try to dress it up. At least if she invented the whole thing she is only responsible for one wasted life.
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As someone who grew up in a mining area during Thatchers reign of terror and witnessed the tenacity and strength of character of the plebeian miners you refer to - I find your description a little offensive and find hard to understand what on earth this has to do with the events at WHF?
Absolutely Caroline.
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Fellow Plebeians, ESP Steve, Jeremy provided his Mother's bicycle for JM to get to the holiday job, which Ralph had negotiated for her at the fruit farms.
Why was it then, that she was not at Bourtree Cottage on the fateful night. Was she also bisexual? As this has been alleged about JB, it is not unreasonable to contemplate the same thing, with regard to Muggy.
If this were (Subjunctive case) the case then would it be permitted to wonder Steve, if she had preferred the company of Battersey and/or Ramsden, when JB was worn out, from the toils of harvest?
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Fellow Plebeians, ESP Steve, Jeremy provided his Mother's bicycle for JM to get to the holiday job, which Ralph had negotiated for her at the fruit farms.
Why was it then, that she was not at Bourtree Cottage on the fateful night. Was she also bisexual? As this has been alleged about JB, it is not unreasonable to contemplate the same thing, with regard to Muggy.
If this were (Subjunctive case) the case then would it be permitted to wonder Steve, if she had preferred the company of Battersey and/or Ramsden, when JB was worn out, from the toils of harvest?
Nothing wrong with being Bi. However, was she not at college?
We are also hideously off topic but what elegant phrasing you use Mr Campion
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As someone who grew up in a mining area during Thatchers reign of terror and witnessed the tenacity and strength of character of the plebeian mihttp://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/Themes/curvemavi/images/bbc/left.gifners you refer to - I find your description a little offensive and find hard to understand what on earth this has to do with the events at WHF?
I'm not taking sides in the conflict Caroline but after the strike I'm afraid some in the hierarchy took advantage of their new-found authority and abused it with an air of insouciance and I think possibly DCI Taff Jones as representative of the Police took an early decision to go along with the well-to-do family of whom Jeremy ostensibly formed a part.
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I am speakng about a scenario where Jeremy comitted the murders so i such circumstances Jeremy obviously pays the biggest price but that doesn't mean Julie shouldnt carry resonsibility for her being an accessory before and after the crime. If Jeremy did it she aided and abetted him. How can you excuse her....5 people died and she neverraised a finger to stop it. Its not pretty steve however much you make excuses for her and try to dress it up. At least if she invented the whole thing she is only responsible for one wasted life.
Because she didn't take him seriously until it was too late,and under those circumstances why blight a life which since has proved how much good there is in her.
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No, Hourglass, it was the Summer Holidays for bath schools and training colleges.
BTW it is my opinion that this is relevant to the Topic, but thankyou for your concern.
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I am speakng about a scenario where Jeremy comitted the murders so i such circumstances Jeremy obviously pays the biggest price but that doesn't mean Julie shouldnt carry resonsibility for her being an accessory before and after the crime. If Jeremy did it she aided and abetted him. How can you excuse her....5 people died and she neverraised a finger to stop it. Its not pretty steve however much you make excuses for her and try to dress it up. At least if she invented the whole thing she is only responsible for one wasted life.
. Maggie..........what an excellent post!
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No, Hourglass, it was the Summer Holidays for bath schools and training colleges.
BTW it is my opinion that this is relevant to the Topic, but thankyou for your concern.
Yes you are right, it was early August. Maybe she needed to see her bank manager or something? ::)
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Fellow Plebeians, ESP Steve, Jeremy provided his Mother's bicycle for JM to get to the holiday job, which Ralph had negotiated for her at the fruit farms.
Why was it then, that she was not at Bourtree Cottage on the fateful night. Was she also bisexual? As this has been alleged about JB, it is not unreasonable to contemplate the same thing, with regard to Muggy.
If this were (Subjunctive case) the case then would it be permitted to wonder Steve, if she had preferred the company of Battersey and/or Ramsden, when JB was worn out, from the toils of harvest?
She had a job in London which is why she returned on the London train on the Sunday night.
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Thankyou Steve for ignoring my posts. Never mind, we can see the significance of your tactics.
I trust you will play blind also on this consideration.(It is a diversionary tack, promoted by yourself-please note XiLi ). Has anyone seen or known of poor Taff Jones Death Certificate? No Inquest was held, it was claimed to be under PII. What about an autopsy report?
Does it not occur to anybody, that the plethora of information in the tome of DAVID SHAW, could have emanated from Australia, as per Reg Perrin, Lord Lucan , or indeed John Stonehouse- the run-a-way PMG
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I never ignore anyone's posts and have answered yours,apart from wishing to speculate on the sexuality of Julie which I find distasteful. In the first telephone call(the tonight's the night call on the Tuesday evening) Julie was pleasantly tired after working all day in London and off her guard as to what Jeremy had in store. They both ended the call when the conversation had run its course.
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pOST #59. wOT jOB, OR post!! ?
Are you as gullible as you appear to think we are?
11
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No I'm like the cat with the proverbial nine lives and am currently on life number 6. I believe there was talk of a job at a flower nursery but Julie was not working there at the time of the murders,hence her returning to London on Sunday 4th August,and her surprise at seeing the bicycle at Goldhanger for the first time on the Saturday. Jeremy did not mention the reason you suggest for the presence of the bicycle there during interrogation by Police at any time as far as I can remember.
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I'm not taking sides in the conflict Caroline but after the strike I'm afraid some in the hierarchy took advantage of their new-found authority and abused it with an air of insouciance and I think possibly DCI Taff Jones as representative of the Police took an early decision to go along with the well-to-do family of whom Jeremy ostensibly formed a part.
Steve? Wasn't it Stan Jones who went along with the family?
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Thankyou Steve for ignoring my posts. Never mind, we can see the significance of your tactics.
I trust you will play blind also on this consideration.(It is a diversionary tack, promoted by yourself-please note XiLi ). Has anyone seen or known of poor Taff Jones Death Certificate? No Inquest was held, it was claimed to be under PII. What about an autopsy report?
Does it not occur to anybody, that the plethora of information in the tome of DAVID SHAW, could have emanated from Australia, as per Reg Perrin, Lord Lucan , or indeed John Stonehouse- the run-a-way PMG
This is too complicated for me. I do not know who anybody actually is. I am only just begining to learn who is in the "Sheila is guilty" and who is "Jeremy is guilty" camp. Funny how there is only two camps. Is there no other possibility?
I thought Taff Jones fell off a ladder although I have seen some people think he was most brilliant policeman of his generation and was murdered by MI5, Special Branch or was it Aliens?
Now I have seen a draft of the David Shaw book but I think very one sided. nothing to learn from it.
Too late for me, I go to bed - alone. I am high maintainence and need my sleep.
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Yes Caroline but he expressed an antipathy towards Jeremy from the outset,possibly not wanting to maintain the status quo as DCI Taff Jones did.
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Yes Caroline but he expressed an antipathy towards Jeremy from the outset,possibly not wanting to maintain the status quo as DCI Taff Jones did.
An exceptionally ambitious man IMO who used some unorthodox methods in his investigation of the case - like escorting JM and SB to the bank on his day off!
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Of course but this was related to a 20 year old girl whose tabula rasa did not imbibe the full import of what she was being told. She had been initially swept off her feet in the early days with Jeremy wooing her with flowers,chocolates and the honeymoon suite at luxury hotels and had possibly built up a picture in her mind of Jeremy as her infallible hero. How could this man who had been so generous and loving in a way no other man had been to her(remember Brett described him as "a big softie")harbour such wicked thoughts? However the nightmare became a reality as Julie became swept up in deceit,the only way ultimately to extricate herself being to betray the only man she had heretofore truly loved.
I fail to see what "tabula rasa" has to do with any of this. JM had been born with it, as have we all, but having left that state it is impossible to return to it. Rather like virginity, Steve. Once it's gone, it's gone.
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But she was a young girl from the north of England whom one could in no way describe as being well versed in London's ways. Here she was faced with a situation where the official verdict as recorded by a Police force was "four murders and a suicide",so what was the likelihood that one individual could overturn it?
What poppycock!!! She'd finished her school life in Colchester, a university town, an army town. Not in the same league as London, it's true but it provided for most tastes with clubs to suit all. From there she went to London and I feel certain that by the time she met Jeremy she had become VERY well versed in London ways. Certainly enough for her to shrug off the last vestiges of the "young girl from the North of England."
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I never ignore anyone's posts and have answered yours,apart from wishing to speculate on the sexuality of Julie which I find distasteful. In the first telephone call(the tonight's the night call on the Tuesday evening) Julie was pleasantly tired after working all day in London and off her guard as to what Jeremy had in store. They both ended the call when the conversation had run its course.
Why should speculation about Julie's sexuality be so distasteful to you. She seemed not to have your reserve. She quite unnecessarily introduced anal sex into her witness statement and I believe that you, on numerous occasions, have called Jeremy's sexuality into question.
As for her being "pleasantly tired after working all day(!)........." I imagine it may have had more to do with what she and her friends had been smoking before they retired to bed.
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Morning steve uk You ignore all my posts and if you did bother to read them you may learn something. You read the one about me suggesting clothes were burnt in the Aga :)
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But she was a young girl from the north of England whom one could in no way describe as being well versed in London's ways. Here she was faced with a situation where the official verdict as recorded by a Police force was "four murders and a suicide",so what was the likelihood that one individual could overturn it?
Come on steve she had lived in Altrincham Greater Manchester, i knew plenty from there way back and they were hardly country bumpkins. It wasnt as tho she came from an isolated village.
She wasnt a stupid person, Goldsmiths was a good Teacher Training College so she had a brain. Cant really understabd your point!!
Steve 5 people died.....she could have tried, at least she would have done her best. Maybe she was more interested in what was in it for her until she realised there wasnt anything coming her way from Jeremy.
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Because she didn't take him seriously until it was too late,and under those circumstances why blight a life which since has proved how much good there is in her.
Unless of course she is trying to atone for her past sins of putting an innocent man behind bars? Some people do this.They cram their lives with good works to give the impression they have a good heart. Jimmy Savile being just one example. Robert Maxwell being another, giving the impression that he was being generous by giving £1000's to AIDS organisations, whilst all the time he was robbing the pension funds of his workers.
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This is too complicated for me. I do not know who anybody actually is. I am only just begining to learn who is in the "Sheila is guilty" and who is "Jeremy is guilty" camp. Funny how there is only two camps. Is there no other possibility?
I thought Taff Jones fell off a ladder although I have seen some people think he was most brilliant policeman of his generation and was murdered by MI5, Special Branch or was it Aliens?
Now I have seen a draft of the David Shaw book but I think very one sided. nothing to learn from it.
Too late for me, I go to bed - alone. I am high maintainence and need my sleep.
Keep up XiLi. It was the banana men from Mars.
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Unless of ourse she is trying to atone for her past sins of putting an innocent man behind bars? Some people do this.They cram their lives with good works to give the impression they have a good heart. Jimmy Savile being just one example. Robert Maxwell being another, giving the impression that he was being generous by giving £1000's to AIDS organisations, whilst all the time he was robbing the pension funds of his workers.
I agree Lugg. Beware those who can't do enough for folk. Usually a motive behind their " good deeds ".
There are very few who will do anything for anybody out of the good of their hearts.
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I agree Lugg. Beware those who can't do enough for folk. Usually a motive behind their " good deeds ".
There are very few who will do anything for anybody out of the good of their hearts.
I think there are good and selfless people around lookout, you being one of them but a person with low emoting skills quite often likes to get into positions of power and will often use their charm and brain power to do that. imo
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I never ignore anyone's posts and have answered yours,apart from wishing to speculate on the sexuality of Julie which I find distasteful. In the first telephone call(the tonight's the night call on the Tuesday evening) Julie was pleasantly tired after working all day in London and off her guard as to what Jeremy had in store. They both ended the call when the conversation had run its course.
But you have no problem speculating on Jeremy's sexuality! And after the second call, she simply went back to sleep!
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No I'm like the cat with the proverbial nine lives and am currently on life number 6. I believe there was talk of a job at a flower nursery but Julie was not working there at the time of the murders,hence her returning to London on Sunday 4th August,and her surprise at seeing the bicycle at Goldhanger for the first time on the Saturday. Jeremy did not mention the reason you suggest for the presence of the bicycle there during interrogation by Police at any time as far as I can remember.
Her alleged surprise!
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Keep up XiLi. It was the banana men from Mars.
That is not correct, Martians look completely different. It was the Silurians. ;D ;D ;D
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Why should speculation about Julie's sexuality be so distasteful to you. She seemed not to have your reserve. She quite unnecessarily introduced anal sex into her witness statement and I believe that you, on numerous occasions, have called Jeremy's sexuality into question.
As for her being "pleasantly tired after working all day(!)........." I imagine it may have had more to do with what she and her friends had been smoking before they retired to bed.
Women often say that. It is like to play the "little victim card", "He was so cruel to me!" "He was unnatural!"
Men are easy to control. If they want things a woman not like you tell them to stop and they never try again. They want things like that they can go and pay for it and not come back.
I think she was just play "victim card" at that point.
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But she was a young girl from the north of England whom one could in no way describe as being well versed in London's ways. Here she was faced with a situation where the official verdict as recorded by a Police force was "four murders and a suicide",so what was the likelihood that one individual could overturn it?
I'm also from the north of England and can tell you, in Julie's shoes I'd have been shocked initially but as soon as I had gathered my thoughts, I would have gone to the police and I'm talking days not weeks or after being dumped. He would be the one being dumped, just before I shopped him! Everything about her actions point to 'a woman scorned and cold calculating revenge!
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I'm also from the north of England and can tell you, in Julie's shoes I'd have been shocked initially but as soon as I had gathered my thoughts, I would have gone to the police and I'm talking days not weeks or after being dumped. He would be the one being dumped, just before I shopped him! Everything about her actions point to 'a woman scorned and cold calculating revenge!
I think it is the time to "gather thoughts" that is the difficult bit. People react in different ways. When you are older and stronger a few hours to firm up a judgement is more than enough. When younger or inexperienced in violence then maybe longer. I do know of women who have sat quietly for years while they or their children have been abused and it is only after some trigger that they finally take action. This is true of a lot of cases when a man has been arrested for serious crime and the woman finally speaks up. A lot depends on your support network too.
Consider Ian Huntley case where his girl friend help with cover up. Initally not belive what happen and then finally end up in jail. I am sure she wishes she spoke up earlier but maybe afraid of violence or not wanting to think the worst.
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I think it is the time to "gather thoughts" that is the difficult bit. People react in different ways. When you are older and stronger a few hours to firm up a judgement is more than enough. When younger or inexperienced in violence then maybe longer. I do know of women who have sat quietly for years while they or their children have been abused and it is only after some trigger that they finally take action. This is true of a lot of cases when a man has been arrested for serious crime and the woman finally speaks up. A lot depends on your support network too.
Consider Ian Huntley case where his girl friend help with cover up. Initally not belive what happen and then finally end up in jail. I am sure she wishes she spoke up earlier but maybe afraid of violence or not wanting to think the worst.
You're see I could go along with this had she not identified the bodies, ONLY told police after being dumped, sold her story to the highest bidder and while agreeing to pose in that ridiculous manner!! And let us not forget that both the jury and the judge placed little faith in her testimony!
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Hi Girls :)
I have been reading your posts with interest! Re:JM........I agree that it appears that she went to the police once she realised that JB was slipping away from her.But can we really believe that that JB told her he was responsible for the murders.How could he have possibly known that she would not have gone straight to the police?Does anyone think it more likely that the "relatives" convinced her that he was responsible?
I find it interesting that Mabel Speakman changed her will,leaving everything to PB,on the 3rd September 1985,after RWB told her that the family were dead and that Jeremy was responsible.This is less than 4 weeks following the murders!And that initially.David,Anthony,Peter,and Colin all believed that Sheila could very well have been responsible.The driving force behind the campaign to put the blame on Jeremy appears to have been RWB and his daughter AE.And it was both of these family members that appear to have been a little more concerned with the financial aspect of things following the murders.
What is also interesting is that Basil Cox and the Boutflours decided that that June and Sheila's estates should go to their next of kin,which just happened to be Mabel Speakman,so all this passed to PB too upon Mabel Speakman's death the following year.Jeremy had not yet had his trial,or even been arrested in connection with the murders! And yet RWB told the jury (who had specifically asked) that his family would NOT benefit financially if Jeremy was indeed found guilty.The jury had wanted to know if RWB and "others" had a financial motive for giving evidence against Jeremy.Did RWB blatantly lie to the jury? If so,what else did he lie about?
None of this sits easy with me!
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Yes Caroline but he expressed an antipathy towards Jeremy from the outset,possibly not wanting to maintain the status quo as DCI Taff Jones did.
Hi Steve_uk
The police have a long history of allowing their own prejudices to wrongly influence cases:
Birmingham 6/Maguire 7/Guildford 4 etc = Irish and Catholic
Stephen Lawrence = Black
Jeremy Bamber = Posh ie privately educated, well spoken, middle class, smooth, babe magnet etc
The police were only happy dealing with known quantities ie white, British, heterosexual, working class males. Anyone outside had an uphill battle.
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Hi Girls :)
I have been reading your posts with interest! Re:JM........I agree that it appears that she went to the police once she realised that JB was slipping away from her.But can we really believe that that JB told her he was responsible for the murders.How could he have possibly known that she would not have gone straight to the police?Does anyone think it more likely that the "relatives" convinced her that he was responsible?
I find it interesting that Mabel Speakman changed her will,leaving everything to PB,on the 3rd September 1985,after RWB told her that the family were dead and that Jeremy was responsible.This is less than 4 weeks following the murders!And that initially.David,Anthony,Peter,and Colin all believed that Sheila could very well have been responsible.The driving force behind the campaign to put the blame on Jeremy appears to have been RWB and his daughter AE.And it was both of these family members that appear to have been a little more concerned with the financial aspect of things following the murders.
What is also interesting is that Basil Cox and the Boutflours decided that that June and Sheila's estates should go to their next of kin,which just happened to be Mabel Speakman,so all this passed to PB too upon Mabel Speakman's death the following year.Jeremy had not yet had his trial,or even been arrested in connection with the murders! And yet RWB told the jury (who had specifically asked) that his family would NOT benefit financially if Jeremy was indeed found guilty.The jury had wanted to know if RWB and "others" had a financial motive for giving evidence against Jeremy.Did RWB blatantly lie to the jury? If so,what else did he lie about?
None of this sits easy with me!
Or me Tyler. I agree with what you have written. I cannot believe for a moment that JB told Julie he had commited the murders.
The kind of personality needed to commit such dreadful crimes just doesn't gel with the niaivity and stupidity of someone who will admit such a thing to anyone, and then a few weeks later turn them against him.
She has never mentioned him theatening or bullying her, or of her being truly, genuinely terrified of him.
I feel the family chose him by default and then it was easy to build a case around him, especially as some of his recent history had been dodgy.
He's made out to be some sort of pantomime villain by the likes of steve and bares little or no resemblence to anything approaching a psychopathic murderer either in his behaviour after the murders or in fact in his previous history.
I find it impossible to believe that anyone but a psychopath could commit such a cold blooded evil crime. Sheila was obviously really ill and was not of sound mind so am not levelling such accusations against her. imo
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Women often say that. It is like to play the "little victim card", "He was so cruel to me!" "He was unnatural!"
Men are easy to control. If they want things a woman not like you tell them to stop and they never try again. They want things like that they can go and pay for it and not come back.
I think she was just play "victim card" at that point.
My wife ordered me to say that that's not true. >:(
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I'm also from the north of England and can tell you, in Julie's shoes I'd have been shocked initially but as soon as I had gathered my thoughts, I would have gone to the police and I'm talking days not weeks or after being dumped. He would be the one being dumped, just before I shopped him! Everything about her actions point to 'a woman scorned and cold calculating revenge!
I don't think I would have been dumping anyone Caroline, I do think I would be running for the train going home to the 'North' and then telling the police. I would have been terrified but not because of the area of the country I grew up in but because anyone in theie right mind would be terrified of someone who could commit such a nightmare crime.
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My wife ordered me to say that that's not true. >:(
I have to agree with your wife Lugg, never noticed anyone taking any notice of me. Most men do what they want in my experience. >:( >:( ;D
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Hi Steve_uk
The police have a long history of allowing their own prejudices to wrongly influence cases:
Birmingham 6/Maguire 7/Guildford 4 etc = Irish and Catholic
Stephen Lawrence = Black
Jeremy Bamber = Posh ie privately educated, well spoken, middle class, smooth, babe magnet etc
The police were only happy dealing with known quantities ie white, British, heterosexual, working class males. Anyone outside had an uphill battle.
Oh and I should have added in Jeremy's case 'adopted' ie of unknown parentage, carrier of alien genes.
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No because he was the instigator. In my view the germination of his wicked plan was the fantasies Sheila experienced in August 1983 concerning the twins. He had mulled over the idea in his mind and the wicked scheme of cycling along the sea wall under the pretext of checking the security of the caravan park slowly took shape. It was both a planned and a spur of the moment crime as the time had to be ripe,as it was in August 1985 with all five family members including his heirs and successors under one roof,a prerequisite for the crime,the previous occasion he had thought out loud about harming them being when he inadvertently blurted out to Charles Marsden that should the farm burn down at Christmas 1984 then everything would be his.
Hi Steve_uk
You refer to Charles Marsden so frequently I'm begining to think you just like the sound of his name. Perhaps you wish you were 'Charles' instead of 'Steve'? Charles Marsden seems to be a small bit player in the scheme of things.
We have no idea of the full conversation surrounding the possibility of WHF being burnt down. I understand Charles was a computer sales person and that Jeremy was interested in taking the farm and other businesses into the 21st century by using a computer for admin etc. It could quite simply have been a case of Charles and Jeremy having a conversation along these lines with Charles pointing out that the computer/data would need to be kept free of risk eg fire, theft etc.
If Charles had question marks about Jeremy why hang out with him? The pair went on the pull one evening and chatted up two girls. Jeremy succeeded in getting his girl back to Goldhanger. Charles crashed on Jeremy's bed only to be awoken by the pair supposedly having sex, probably just a fumble :) Jeremy then walked the girl home and Charles legged it. Both Jeremy and Charles had girlfriends at the time. Steve this may not fit in with your idea of what was right and proper in the mid 80's but it was how many young people lived until they outgrew the phase.
After Jeremy and Julie stole the money from OCS the pair, along with Charles and Liz Rimmington (Charles' girlfriend), went out for a meal costing £125. £125 in today's terms is £316.25 which is fair bit for a meal/drinks outside London. Why accept a relatively expensive meal out if you have ?'s about the payers integrity?
(Hey April1 you live in the area? Is the Frog and Bean wine bar still going? It sounds happening. Perhaps we could hook up and go on the pull? I have to admit my pulling power is not what it once was but I scrub up ok and if the lighting is subdued I reckon I could be in with a chance ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D)
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You should worry,NN.I've got that many wrinkles,I screw my hat on.
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Hi Steve_uk
You refer to Charles Marsden so frequently I'm begining to think you just like the sound of his name. Perhaps you wish you were 'Charles' instead of 'Steve'? Charles Marsden seems to be a small bit player in the scheme of things.
We have no idea of the full conversation surrounding the possibility of WHF being burnt down. I understand Charles was a computer sales person and that Jeremy was interested in taking the farm and other businesses into the 21st century by using a computer for admin etc. It could quite simply have been a case of Charles and Jeremy having a conversation along these lines with Charles pointing out that the computer/data would need to be kept free of risk eg fire, theft etc.
If Charles had question marks about Jeremy why hang out with him? The pair went on the pull one evening and chatted up two girls. Jeremy succeeded in getting his girl back to Goldhanger. Charles crashed on Jeremy's bed only to be awoken by the pair supposedly having sex, probably just a fumble :) Jeremy then walked the girl home and Charles legged it. Both Jeremy and Charles had girlfriends at the time. Steve this may not fit in with your idea of what was right and proper in the mid 80's but it was how many young people lived until they outgrew the phase.
After Jeremy and Julie stole the money from OCS the pair, along with Charles and Liz Rimmington (Charles' girlfriend), went out for a meal costing £125. £125 in today's terms is £316.25 which is fair bit for a meal/drinks outside London. Why accept a relatively expensive meal out if you have ?'s about the payers integrity?
(Hey April1 you live in the area? Is the Frog and Bean wine bar still going? It sounds happening. Perhaps we could hook up and go on the pull? I have to admit my pulling power is not what it once was but I scrub up ok and if the lighting is subdued I reckon I could be in with a chance ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D)
Hi, NaNu. I think the F&B has changed hands numerous times since then. I seem to think it was on North Hill. It did, at one time, Happen, but like so many others, lost out to places that Happedned more.
I, too, must confess to having reached my pulling peak...........some years ago :( but like you, I scrub up well and to quote W. S. Gilbert, I "may very well pass for 45, in the dark, with the light behind" me ;D ;D ;D ;D
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My wife ordered me to say that that's not true. >:(
I never have a problem with control.
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Oh and I should have added in Jeremy's case 'adopted' ie of unknown parentage, carrier of alien genes.
Looks white to me...
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You're see I could go along with this had she not identified the bodies, ONLY told police after being dumped, sold her story to the highest bidder and while agreeing to pose in that ridiculous manner!! And let us not forget that both the jury and the judge placed little faith in her testimony!
Everyone sold their stories to the media then even JB it was just the way the press worked then.
However, whatever, our feelings about JM and I agree I would not behave the way she did but only because I am now twice the age she was at the time I still do not see how opinions about how JM may have been 27 years ago prove JBs innocence or SCs guilt if that is the aim of this thread?
Where are we trying to go? What are we trying to prove? Opinions are not evidence.
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Looks white to me...
Hi Hourglass
Yes but were the genes whiter than white? At the time of Jeremy's trial his parentage was unknown. Some, not all, might have consciously or sub-consciously thought he carried 'bad blood'. The 'bad blood' of the parents who abandoned him. Do you have adoption within China? I know lots of Western folk adopt babies from China.
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You should worry,NN.I've got that many wrinkles,I screw my hat on.
Hi Lookout
Ha, ha but that's because you're built like a whippet :)
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Hi Hourglass
Yes but were the genes whiter than white? At the time of Jeremy's trial his parentage was unknown. Some, not all, might have consciously or sub-consciously thought he carried 'bad blood'. The 'bad blood' of the parents who abandoned him. Do you have adoption within China? I know lots of Western folk adopt babies from China.
Of course we have adoption in China. With One Child Policy it happen a lot.
What are you saying? That JB was Chinese? I do not think he was.
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Of course we have adoption in China. With One Child Policy it happen a lot.
What are you saying? That JB was Chinese? I do not think he was.
Well they do say he is very clever. :)
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Well they do say he is very clever. :)
Humm, This is becoming a dangerously interesting thread...
I will watch to see where it lead.
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Hi Steve_uk
You refer to Charles Marsden so frequently I'm begining to think you just like the sound of his name. Perhaps you wish you were 'Charles' instead of 'Steve'? Charles Marsden seems to be a small bit player in the scheme of things.
We have no idea of the full conversation surrounding the possibility of WHF being burnt down. I understand Charles was a computer sales person and that Jeremy was interested in taking the farm and other businesses into the 21st century by using a computer for admin etc. It could quite simply have been a case of Charles and Jeremy having a conversation along these lines with Charles pointing out that the computer/data would need to be kept free of risk eg fire, theft etc.
If Charles had question marks about Jeremy why hang out with him? The pair went on the pull one evening and chatted up two girls. Jeremy succeeded in getting his girl back to Goldhanger. Charles crashed on Jeremy's bed only to be awoken by the pair supposedly having sex, probably just a fumble :) Jeremy then walked the girl home and Charles legged it. Both Jeremy and Charles had girlfriends at the time. Steve this may not fit in with your idea of what was right and proper in the mid 80's but it was how many young people lived until they outgrew the phase.
After Jeremy and Julie stole the money from OCS the pair, along with Charles and Liz Rimmington (Charles' girlfriend), went out for a meal costing £125. £125 in today's terms is £316.25 which is fair bit for a meal/drinks outside London. Why accept a relatively expensive meal out if you have ?'s about the payers integrity?
(Hey April1 you live in the area? Is the Frog and Bean wine bar still going? It sounds happening. Perhaps we could hook up and go on the pull? I have to admit my pulling power is not what it once was but I scrub up ok and if the lighting is subdued I reckon I could be in with a chance ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D)
You might see Charles at the bar, still hoping to pull! :)
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Everyone sold their stories to the media then even JB it was just the way the press worked then.
However, whatever, our feelings about JM and I agree I would not behave the way she did but only because I am now twice the age she was at the time I still do not see how opinions about how JM may have been 27 years ago prove JBs innocence or SCs guilt if that is the aim of this thread?
Where are we trying to go? What are we trying to prove? Opinions are not evidence.
Speaking for myself I can tell you without doubt, that if my boyfriend killed 5 people there is absolutely no way I would stand idly by with doe eyes and lie to protect him. As soon as I realised what he had done I'd be reaching for the phone! I'd have done the same at nineteen and I would do the same now!
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Speaking for myself I can tell you without doubt, that if my boyfriend killed 5 people there is absolutely no way I would stand idly by with doe eyes and lie to protect him. As soon as I realised what he had done I'd be reaching for the phone! I'd have done the same at nineteen and I would do the same now!
I think, by the way Steve describes her state of "in love" he believes fantasy of women turning to complicit, malleable mush when they fall in love.
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I think, by the way Steve describes her state of "in love" he believes fantasy of women turning to complicit, malleable mush when they fall in love.
Five murders would be enough to bring any 'normal' individual back down to earth. There would have to be something lacking in your character to ignore something of that magnitude!!
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It is nice to confidentally feel that way and I do too. However, the undeniable facts are that some women for various reasons fail to call in the police. The Ian Huntley, Moors Murders, Rose West and numerous others show this to be the case.
It is well recorded that many women stand by while their children are abused and tolerate all manner of criminal behaviour. I would firmly say I would not tolerate it now and hope I would have the strength of character when I was less than half my age to do the right thing.
I am not making excuses for JM but neither do I find it unbeliveable that she could find it difficult to act immediately. I do not know her and she is not the sort of person I would ever want to know. The police probably do know a lot more and that is probably where the Public Immunity Issues come in.
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It is nice to confidentally feel that way and I do too. However, the undeniable facts are that some women for various reasons fail to call in the police. The Ian Huntley, Moors Murders, Rose West and numerous others show this to be the case.
It is well recorded that many women stand by while their children are abused and tolerate all manner of criminal behaviour. I would firmly say I would not tolerate it now and hope I would have the strength of character when I was less than half my age to do the right thing.
I am not making excuses for JM but neither do I find it unbeliveable that she could find it difficult to act immediately. I do not know her and she is not the sort of person I would ever want to know. The police probably do know a lot more and that is probably where the Public Immunity Issues come in.
Rose West was just as guilty as Fred West and Maxine Carr had suffered domestic abuse from Huntley - she was also absent when Huntley murdered the two children so may have been unaware or in denial about what he'd done. JB is supposed to have told Julie quite clearly of his intention to kill the family months before the event and on discovering that he just may have acted upon his intention, she goes back to bed. The following day when she is left in no uncertain terms that the man she loves, the man she sleeps with and intends to marry - has indeed killed five people including two young children, she doesn't run for the hills or freak out or act oddly, she volunteers to identify the bodies and then discusses with AE various points about them. No mention of tears or being physically distressed as you might imagine someone to be who has just been hit with the full force of their loved ones evil deeds! I understand that she failed to call the police - she failed to call the police up until the point where JB ended their relationship! Did her conscience finally kick in or did she seek revenge and act upon her earlier threat of 'if I can't have you, no one will'?
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Rose West was just as guilty as Fred West and Maxine Carr had suffered domestic abuse from Huntley - she was also absent when Huntley murdered the two children so may have been unaware or in denial about what he'd done. JB is supposed to have told Julie quite clearly of his intention to kill the family months before the event and on discovering that he just may have acted upon his intention, she goes back to bed. The following day when she is left in no uncertain terms that the man she loves, the man she sleeps with and intends to marry - has indeed killed five people including two young children, she doesn't run for the hills or freak out or act oddly, she volunteers to identify the bodies and then discusses with AE various points about them. No mention of tears or being physically distressed as you might imagine someone to be who has just been hit with the full force of their loved ones evil deeds! I understand that she failed to call the police - she failed to call the police up until the point where JB ended their relationship! Did her conscience finally kick in or did she seek revenge and act upon her earlier threat of 'if I can't have you, no one will'?
Fab post Caroline....in a nutshell you have explained why Julie's tale of dark deads and murder are a fantasy. This is not normal behaviour. She was undeiably an intelligent young woman. She was also ore streetwise than many she would never have behaved that way. Imo
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Rose West was just as guilty as Fred West and Maxine Carr had suffered domestic abuse from Huntley - she was also absent when Huntley murdered the two children so may have been unaware or in denial about what he'd done. JB is supposed to have told Julie quite clearly of his intention to kill the family months before the event and on discovering that he just may have acted upon his intention, she goes back to bed. The following day when she is left in no uncertain terms that the man she loves, the man she sleeps with and intends to marry - has indeed killed five people including two young children, she doesn't run for the hills or freak out or act oddly, she volunteers to identify the bodies and then discusses with AE various points about them. No mention of tears or being physically distressed as you might imagine someone to be who has just been hit with the full force of their loved ones evil deeds! I understand that she failed to call the police - she failed to call the police up until the point where JB ended their relationship! Did her conscience finally kick in or did she seek revenge and act upon her earlier threat of 'if I can't have you, no one will'?
Excellent post Caroline. I know this sounds bitter but, she had no conscience. No will rephrase that, because it was not conscience she had, it was revenge, it is obvious that she gained her story from other and newspapers. Not once in her statements does she embark on any real evidence as to what really happened that night... :) :) :)
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Thanks girls! I just don't buy the 'blinded by love' notion - I could understand if she had just been suspicious about his involvement, but according to her he had talked at lengths about his plans and then admits to arranging the whole thing after the event. And she carries on as normal - I don't recall reading any statement which refers to Julie acting strangely.
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Agreed Rose West and Hindley were every bit as guilty but chose not to stop their men. Maxine Carr knew what Huntley was like and chose to help him cover things up. Her only concern was she think he'd had another woman round.
My problem with the JB and JM saga and the rest of their gang is that they were all repulsive self-centred, spolit brats who think the World owe them a living. The were involved in drugs and all sorts of crime even before the murders. In China we would have shot the lot of them with no regrets. They would have been dead, buried and forgotten by November 1985.
I am not defending JM in the slightest but I do find it strange that she is condemed for first protecting JB and covering up and then later she is condemed for confessing and putting him in jail. Lets make our mind up, is she villain or heroine? I suppose it depends on if you believe JB is guilty or not?
She is continually accused of lying and I agree with you but none of this is new evidence and what do we actually want from it all? JM could have done better but she did not. If she had gone to the police and said that JB was planning a massace what would the police have done? Talk to "Taff" Wells Essex's finest? Even when confronted with the bodies their initial reaction was to disbelieve what they saw.
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Hourglass I find it kind of strange thatyou claim to be westernisedor at least educated but appear to have no problem with people shot for minor offenses.
I know people in the emerging world. I know uneducated illiterate people in the third world. They are not happy with people being shot in this way. Why do you write these things on this forum. I dot mean any disrespect to your culture but am surprised at your post.
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Thanks girls! I just don't buy the 'blinded by love' notion - I could understand if she had just been suspicious about his involvement, but according to her he had talked at lengths about his plans and then admits to arranging the whole thing after the event. And she carries on as normal - I don't recall reading any statement which refers to Julie acting strangely.
Caroline, do you think that when we are young we say things about our parents that we don't always mean? Just one little remark, like my parents are doing my head in, I wish they would bigger off....It's not a remark that I would ever make, because I loved my parents deeply. Bit I remember when I was at school, many of my friends had said...I hate my mother...I hate my father....but, not once did I take them seriously....I absolutely hate it when folk talk nastily about their parents....and moan about doing things for them...because I would love to still help my mum and dad, given the chance... :) :) :) :)
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Hourglass I find it kind of strange thatyou claim to be westernisedor at least educated but appear to have no problem with people shot for minor offenses.
I know people in the emerging world. I know uneducated illiterate people in the third world. They are not happy with people being shot in this way. Why do you write these things on this western forum.
We do not shoot people for minor offenses, we shoot them for terrorism, murder, drug dealing and massive fraud. I am not happy with innocent people being shot or for minor offenses and I have not said that.
Or is it that child murder is a minor offense in UK? I do not think so.
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We do not shoot people for minor offenses, we shoot them for terrorism, murder, drug dealing and massive fraud. I am not happy with innocent people being shot or for minor offenses and I have not said that.
Or is it that child murder is a minor offense in UK? I do not think so.
I just dont believe you have all the facts that quickly. I dont believe in the taking of life anyway and would not want to live in a country which had the death penalty.
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We do not shoot people for minor offenses, we shoot them for terrorism, murder, drug dealing and massive fraud. I am not happy with innocent people being shot or for minor offenses and I have not said that.
Or is it that child murder is a minor offense in UK? I do not think so.
Hourglass child murder in this Country is appalling and some only get 7 years, some get life and some get whole terms..... Paedophiles are allowed to walk our streets having served 4 year for f...king a 2 year old....that is not justice. These are people who have been caught and admitted their crimes, yet are freed under our pathetic system....
Jeremy Bamber, claims he is innocent of killing his family and I for one believe him. Do you know why? There is not one drop of evidence that puts him in at the crime scene.....You give me evidence and I will except it.... :) :) :)
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Hourglass I find it kind of strange thatyou claim to be westernisedor at least educated but appear to have no problem with people shot for minor offenses.
I know people in the emerging world. I know uneducated illiterate people in the third world. They are not happy with people being shot in this way. Why do you write these things on this forum. I dot mean any disrespect to your culture but am surprised at your post.
Actually, I know you are not being disrespectful. China has many faults and the rule of law is one big problem. It is just that we have different priorities. Should a village not have access to clean water because we are too busy keeping China's equivalent of Ian Huntley or Ian Brady in comfortable prison for 30 years?
That said China is relatively crime free considering the size of the place. Largely because everyone knows what happens if you do wrong.
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Caroline, do you think that when we are young we say things about our parents that we don't always mean? Just one little remark, like my parents are doing my head in, I wish they would bigger off....It's not a remark that I would ever make, because I loved my parents deeply. Bit I remember when I was at school, many of my friends had said...I hate my mother...I hate my father....but, not once did I take them seriously....I absolutely hate it when folk talk nastily about their parents....and moan about doing things for them...because I would love to still help my mum and dad, given the chance... :) :) :) :)
Yes, I know what you mean Patti and like you I couldn't talk about my parents like that - it would be like tempting fate in my eyes!! Also like you I can remember friends talking about hating their mum or dad, usually when they didn't get their own way. They didn't mean it obviously and JB may well have said something similar and perhaps this was the catalyst for Julie's tale!
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I believe human rights are just that whether you its about clean water in a village or killing an innocent person. There is no difference. Every life counts hourglass. I believe China is now rich enough to provide clean water for the villages f China and care about human rights. They have plenty of money to buy up half the countries of the Indian Ocean it seems.
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Yes, I know what you mean Patti and like you I couldn't talk about my parents like that - it would be like tempting fate in my eyes!! Also like you I can remember friends talking about hating their mum or dad, usually when they didn't get their own way. They didn't mean it obviously and JB may well have said something similar and perhaps this was the catalyst for Julie's tale!
I can relate to that Caroline. Maybe words taken out of context....????????? :D
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Hourglass child murder in this Country is appalling and some only get 7 years, some get life and some get whole terms..... Paedophiles are allowed to walk our streets having served 4 year for f...king a 2 year old....that is not justice. These are people who have been caught and admitted their crimes, yet are freed under our pathetic system....
Jeremy Bamber, claims he is innocent of killing his family and I for one believe him. Do you know why? There is not one drop of evidence that puts him in at the crime scene.....You give me evidence and I will except it.... :) :) :)
Hi Patti, I accept all that but you need a system that can deal with that and it is plain that justice and human rights do not work hand in hand in this country. Is there a better way? Probably not but a start would be to get rid of the jury system which plainly does not work and restrict the number of appeals.
But a system that deals effectively with child killers and perverts is likely to be unsympathetic to supposed misscarriages of justice.
For JB I understand exactly where you are coming from and accept that there is little evidience placing him at the scene apart from JM statements and his own bizzare behaviour. But not all crimes are caught on camera and some do not even have a body. Even those that are filmed (9/11) have a whole industry that deny them.
If you want to get JB out then we need to undermine the existing evidience or lack of it and I have seen no real attempts to do this apart from saying everyone lied including the police, MI5, Special Branch and anyone else we can think of. I have seen nothing at all to undermine the original case and I would agree entirely that the investigation was a mess.
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I believe human rights are just that whether you its about clean water in a village or killing an innocent person. There is no difference. Every life counts hourglass. I believe China is now rich enough to provide clean water for the villages f China and care about human rights. They have plenty of money to buy up half the countries of the Indian Ocean it seems.
Maggie I thought China was an oppressed society? More of a dictatorship....might be wrong, maybe hourglass can explain? :) :) :) :)
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Hi Steve_uk
You refer to Charles Marsden so frequently I'm begining to think you just like the sound of his name. Perhaps you wish you were 'Charles' instead of 'Steve'? Charles Marsden seems to be a small bit player in the scheme of things.
We have no idea of the full conversation surrounding the possibility of WHF being burnt down. I understand Charles was a computer sales person and that Jeremy was interested in taking the farm and other businesses into the 21st century by using a computer for admin etc. It could quite simply have been a case of Charles and Jeremy having a conversation along these lines with Charles pointing out that the computer/data would need to be kept free of risk eg fire, theft etc.
If Charles had question marks about Jeremy why hang out with him? The pair went on the pull one evening and chatted up two girls. Jeremy succeeded in getting his girl back to Goldhanger. Charles crashed on Jeremy's bed only to be awoken by the pair supposedly having sex, probably just a fumble :) Jeremy then walked the girl home and Charles legged it. Both Jeremy and Charles had girlfriends at the time. Steve this may not fit in with your idea of what was right and proper in the mid 80's but it was how many young people lived until they outgrew the phase.
After Jeremy and Julie stole the money from OCS the pair, along with Charles and Liz Rimmington (Charles' girlfriend), went out for a meal costing £125. £125 in today's terms is £316.25 which is fair bit for a meal/drinks outside London. Why accept a relatively expensive meal out if you have ?'s about the payers integrity?
(Hey April1 you live in the area? Is the Frog and Bean wine bar still going? It sounds happening. Perhaps we could hook up and go on the pull? I have to admit my pulling power is not what it once was but I scrub up ok and if the lighting is subdued I reckon I could be in with a chance ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D)
Because Charles Marsden didn't put two and two together about the possibility of the farm burning down with five family members under the same roof until five family members died eight months later. Jeremy tried to keep Charles sweet only a day after the murders but I'm afraid by then Charles like Julie smelt more than a rat.
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Maggie I thought China was an oppressed society? More of a dictatorship....might be wrong, maybe hourglass can explain? :) :) :) :)
Very much Payti am surprised some one as eloquent as hourglass is not more liberal.
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I believe human rights are just that whether you its about clean water in a village or killing an innocent person. There is no difference. Every life counts hourglass. I believe China is now rich enough to provide clean water for the villages f China and care about human rights. They have plenty of money to buy up half the countries of the Indian Ocean it seems.
Actually we have not enough money. China is either a rich country with a lot of poor people or a poor country with a lot of rich people.
It is often claimed that we have a surplus of $3 Trillion Dollars. Well divide that by 1.5 billion people and it is $2000 per head and that goes nowhere. Most of the money is in US treasury stock so if we cash it in the west would collapse and so would we. Then we all have no clean water or food for that matter.
Every life does not count the same. The life of an innocent child or a peodophile? Is Ian Brady worth as much as the health of an entire village? That is the scale of things. The west is so wealthly built on the poverty of other countries that you can indulge your beliefs. Countless millions around the world can not afford that luxury.
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Hi Patti, I accept all that but you need a system that can deal with that and it is plain that justice and human rights do not work hand in hand in this country. Is there a better way? Probably not but a start would be to get rid of the jury system which plainly does not work and restrict the number of appeals.
But a system that deals effectively with child killers and perverts is likely to be unsympathetic to supposed misscarriages of justice.
For JB I understand exactly where you are coming from and accept that there is little evidience placing him at the scene apart from JM statements and his own bizzare behaviour. But not all crimes are caught on camera and some do not even have a body. Even those that are filmed (9/11) have a whole industry that deny them.
If you want to get JB out then we need to undermine the existing evidience or lack of it and I have seen no real attempts to do this apart from saying everyone lied including the police, MI5, Special Branch and anyone else we can think of. I have seen nothing at all to undermine the original case and I would agree entirely that the investigation was a mess.
I don't think you have been here long enough to read the extensive contributions from members to make such a claim. We only have access to a fraction of the evidence that was available at trial and none of the physical exhibits - we can therefore only work within the confines of information we have to hand.
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Come on hourglass a huge sink port in hambantota...how does that bring clean water to your people?
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Maggie I thought China was an oppressed society? More of a dictatorship....might be wrong, maybe hourglass can explain? :) :) :) :)
No China is quite democratic by our standards. Some 80 million people are involved in The Party which is more than the population of this country. Agreed we only have One Party but do you benefit by having more? Most people in the UK do not bother to vote and what is the actual difference between your three parties? Two are working together and Labor ran the place for the last 13 years and got you into two wars and bankrupted the place.
You need to slow down with your posts, do you know how difficult it is for me to reply?
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Actually we have not enough money. China is either a rich country with a lot of poor people or a poor country with a lot of rich people.
It is often claimed that we have a surplus of $3 Trillion Dollars. Well divide that by 1.5 billion people and it is $2000 per head and that goes nowhere. Most of the money is in US treasury stock so if we cash it in the west would collapse and so would we. Then we all have no clean water or food for that matter.
Every life does not count the same. The life of an innocent child or a peodophile? Is Ian Brady worth as much as the health of an entire village? That is the scale of things. The west is so wealthly built on the poverty of other countries that you can indulge your beliefs. Countless millions around the world can not afford that luxury.
Disagree there sorry :( Each Country has a government which is responsible for their own Country. It is no fault of another Country that their Country suffers. I find that remark unsociable...:(
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Come on hourglass a huge sink port in hambantota...how does that bring clean water to your people?
That is one port against what? US has a 600 ship navy and bases all around the World. UK is not far behind. Even your small modern Navy is more powerful than most other countries bar USA, Japan, and France. Again, bases everywhere, investments all over the World.
We open one port and refurbish one old aircraft carrier and we are accused of trying to take over the world.
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No China is quite democratic by our standards. Some 80 million people are involved in The Party which is more than the population of this country. Agreed we only have One Party but do you benefit by having more? Most people in the UK do not bother to vote and what is the actual difference between your three parties? Two are working together and Labor ran the place for the last 13 years and got you into two wars and bankrupted the place.
You need to slow down with your posts, do you know how difficult it is for me to reply?
We aren't bankrupt
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Disagree there sorry :( Each Country has a government which is responsible for their own Country. It is no fault of another Country that their Country suffers. I find that remark unsociable...:(
Actually, low prices and low inflation in the west is financed entirely by low wages in the far east and poverty in Africa. You think slavery was abolished in 1807? Who do you think made your shoes? The nice dress you get for only £30? That flat screen TV for £400?
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No China is quite democratic by our standards. Some 80 million people are involved in The Party which is more than the population of this country. Agreed we only have One Party but do you benefit by having more? Most people in the UK do not bother to vote and what is the actual difference between your three parties? Two are working together and Labor ran the place for the last 13 years and got you into two wars and bankrupted the place.
You need to slow down with your posts, do you know how difficult it is for me to reply?
I don't understand how I need to slow down with my posts and don't understand how it is difficult for you to reply to them....I have friends that work in China....So please don't underestimate my adaptation. :) :) :) :)
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We aren't bankrupt
Oh yes you are. Government cutting back all the time. Growth at less than 0.2%.
Don't worry it affects me, I'm British now too. Make pledge to the Queen.
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Actually, low prices and low inflation in the west is financed entirely by low wages in the far east and poverty in Africa. You think slavery was abolished in 1807? Who do you think made your shoes? The nice dress you get for only £30? That flat screen TV for £400?
You speak as though you're not part of a system which benefits from these things - you live now as a westerner now I presume?
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I don't understand how I need to slow down with my posts and don't understand how it is difficult for you to reply to them....I have friends that work in China....So please don't underestimate my adaptation. :) :) :) :)
Then you will know what China is really like. Everyone work so hard, for so little money, no health service and pay for childs education, no proper pensions and so much pollution.
You are still beating me to every reply.
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Oh yes you are. Government cutting back all the time. Growth at less than 0.2%.
Don't worry it affects me, I'm British now too. Make pledge to the Queen.
No, we aren't bankrupt.
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You speak as though you're not part of a system which benefits from these things - you live now as a westerner now I presume?
I live here now and I benefit from it but I know where it comes from and I send money home to extended family for their kids education.
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Actually, low prices and low inflation in the west is financed entirely by low wages in the far east and poverty in Africa. You think slavery was abolished in 1807? Who do you think made your shoes? The nice dress you get for only £30? That flat screen TV for £400?
My dresses are £50.00 or more, my shoes are no less than £30 and my television cost 1k.....I don't buy football shirts and I only buy British......because I buy quality. Apart from the pound shop...lol :) :) :) :) :)
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No, we aren't bankrupt.
You'll find out soon enough.
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Actually, low prices and low inflation in the west is financed entirely by low wages in the far east and poverty in Africa. You think slavery was abolished in 1807? Who do you think made your shoes? The nice dress you get for only £30? That flat screen TV for £400?
There is some truth in what you say hourglass but up until only recently Germany with a population of 80 million exported more goods and services than China with its 1.2 billion people.
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My dresses are £50.00 or more, my shoes are no less than £30 and my television cost 1k.....I don't buy football shirts and I only buy British......because I buy quality. Apart from the pound shop...lol :) :) :) :) :)
Whatever, I only make example, do not take me literally. I normally spend £100 on a decent dress but most are made in asia. Especially M&S. Total rubbish M&S these days.
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My dresses are £50.00 or more, my shoes are no less than £30 and my television cost 1k.....I don't buy football shirts and I only buy British......because I buy quality. Apart from the pound shop...lol :) :) :) :) :)
I'm with you on that Patti, don't like cheap stuff, it's false economy!! And on that note - I'm off to bed! Night all :)
And we still aren't bankrupt Hourglass - maybe in the future, but not at present.
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I'm with you on that Patti, don't like cheap stuff, it's false economy!! And on that note - I'm off to bed! Night all :)
And we still aren't bankrupt Hourglass - maybe in the future, but not at present.
The only way is up.....night Caroline...xxxx
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There is some truth in what you say hourglass but up until only recently Germany with a population of 80 million exported more goods and services than China with its 1.2 billion people.
Quite so, but China is cheap and Germany expensive but more efficient.
Big problem for China is we export everything cheap and our home market is small, nobody spends any money.
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I'm with you on that Patti, don't like cheap stuff, it's false economy!! And on that note - I'm off to bed! Night all :)
And we still aren't bankrupt Hourglass - maybe in the future, but not at present.
How you blow £1k on TV? My Samsung LED flatscreen is 42 inch and only cost me £500. You were robbed.
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Hee hee Goodnight.
As we say: 88
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Then you will know what China is really like. Everyone work so hard, for so little money, no health service and pay for childs education, no proper pensions and so much pollution.
You are still beating me to every reply.
I understand all that. I know enough about the emerging nations. I understand, I hope about colonialism and much else which has caused so many problems to the emerging world. I find it hard to understand why you find courts without juries and summary executions acceptable.??
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How you blow £1k on TV? My Samsung LED flatscreen is 42 inch and only cost me £500. You were robbed.
I have bad luck with televisions....believe me you don't want to know. I bought a plasma TV for 1k....about 4 years ago. 13 months later it broke down. I applied for it to be mended by the insurance I took out. A contractor picked up my TV he evaluated the cost of repair would be just over £500....The insurance company would not pay. The contractor was not prepared to bring my TV back to me, but I insisted. I re-tested it when it was eventually brought back....it still did not work, so it was left for the rag and bone man to collect....I could not afford a new TV a friend gave me one of his....And my son got another from freecycle
, Last week my son bought me a new TV for Christmas, but because I NEVER watch TV and not got a clue how to use one, he has taken the new one up into his bedroom and the living room is TV free at the moment, with two TV's in the conservatory...This might not make sense....lolol :) :) :) :)
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Then you will know what China is really like. Everyone work so hard, for so little money, no health service and pay for childs education, no proper pensions and so much pollution.
You are still beating me to every reply.
you live here now so why worry! :) :) :) :)
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How you blow £1k on TV? My Samsung LED flatscreen is 42 inch and only cost me £500. You were robbed.
Just over 1k, but for a 52" 3d tv? I don't think so!
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Just over 1k, but for a 52" 3d tv? I don't think so!
I'm just about to have my cheese on toast in front of my black and white 14" crt tv. :) With all these gadgets to help people in their daily living, you'd think people would be much happier these days than in the 50's wouldn't you? But people seem to be getting meaner towards others in attitude these days?
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I'm just about to have my cheese on toast in front of my black and white 14" crt tv. :) With all these gadgets to help people in their daily living, you'd think people would be much happier these days than in the 50's wouldn't you? But people seem to be getting meaner towards others in attitude these days?
It's the craving to keep up with the Jones's, Lugg. Never did bother me,as I prefer to be individual. I'm not concerned with what folk have got.
I agree with changed attitudes though.What's that about.? Why.? I know,for me anyway,it's an entirely different era/age that I live in,and things that matter to others,don't to me. It's a whole new/different generation. One which I'm not overly keen on,but there you are,we can't change it,only the people themselves can do that.
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Morning Lugg we are so happy in Yorkshire in our two up and two down we now have electricity and running water hot and cold and a colour TV. We are happy happy happy :) :) :)
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It does depend on what makes you happy,Susan.
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Hi lookout does not take much to make me happy to have a good supply of cat and bird feed. :) :) :)
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Hi lookout does not take much to make me happy to have a good supply of cat and bird feed. :) :) :)
Me too Susan,,the wildlife,Sammy squirrel knocking on the patio door,lovely.
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Morning Lugg we are so happy in Yorkshire in our two up and two down we now have electricity and running water hot and cold and a colour TV. We are happy happy happy :) :) :)
I was joking about the tv. ;D I actually have a 32" LCD tv £200 from Tescos that me mam bought us. I was just talking about society in general and this comment was not aimed at anyone in particular. In the 50's when I was brought up and people generally had very little, it seemed people were actually more happy than they are today where we have lots of stuff and are much more well off.
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Morning Lugg I agree material things don't make you happy. Happiness comes from within. I know old crofters in this part of the world who have very little but a good fire and a good tale to tell and they could not be happier. :) and the wee dram of course. :)
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I was joking about the tv. ;D I actually have a 32" LCD tv £200 from Tescos that me mam bought us. I was just talking about society in general and this comment was not aimed at anyone in particular. In the 50's when I was brought up and people generally had very little, it seemed people were actually more happy than they are today where we have lots of stuff and are much more well off.
I know what you mean Lugg but I guess every generation thinks 'the old days' were the best. I'm sure kids today will be saying the same thing in years to come when robots and hover-boards are the in thing ;D
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Hi Caroline I think what Lugg is saying his generation appreciated things much more than the present generation. Maybe things were harder to come by then :)
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Hi Caroline I think what Lugg is saying his generation appreciated things much more than the present generation. Maybe things were harder to come by then :)
Yes, I know Susan, but I bet his parents said the same thing to him and in years to come his children (if he has any) will say the same thing to their children - and on it goes.
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Hi Caroline yes I agree this will go on from one generation to another goodness what they will be saying 100 years time :) :)
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Hi Caroline yes I agree this will go on from one generation to another goodness what they will be saying 100 years time :) :)
It's a scary thought!!
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Hi Caroline more scary for some than others :) :) :)
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I was joking about the tv. ;D I actually have a 32" LCD tv £200 from Tescos that me mam bought us. I was just talking about society in general and this comment was not aimed at anyone in particular. In the 50's when I was brought up and people generally had very little, it seemed people were actually more happy than they are today where we have lots of stuff and are much more well off.
I think the feeling of "We're all in it together" lasted until the 60s. Until then, it was a more or less level playing field. The availability of free higher education, whilst providing for a brighter future for many also became the reason for breakdown in communication in families.The jobs available because of higher education meant that local towns were no longer acceptable places of employment for the newly empowered who could command ever higher salaries and it seemed the more we had, the more we wanted. I suppose we were encouraged to be greedy. The days of putting money in appropriate tins to pay bills were long gone, instead we paid with plastic and if we ran shart we borrowed more because we were told we could. We weren't alone. Those who were voted in to look after our interests were doing the same as we were. The knowledge had been put aside that a bubble can only become so big before it bursts.
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I know what you mean Lugg but I guess every generation thinks 'the old days' were the best. I'm sure kids today will be saying the same thing in years to come when robots and hover-boards are the in thing ;D
An archaeologist found written on an item found in a 3000 year old Egyption tomb. It said, "Childen today are extremely selfish and disobedient and they do not respect their parents any more".
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My Dear Lugg, In responce to your gem of archaeological acerbity, may I reminisce upon my late Mother's assertions on this premise.
She was borne to a farming family, whose roots were traced back,(by her cousin, Geoff) to Domesday times. Grandfather, Thomas Hy. was then the senior member of the family, named after a largish town in Hertfordshire. The principal claim to fame, as related to me by Mum, via her Grandma, whose maiden name, incidentally, was Ainslie, was a previous grandmother by the name of Mrs Pratt.
Now Mrs Pratt and her sister were dead ringers for Queen Victoria. Mum was told that Mrs Pratt was Housekeeper to QV's household. I have mulled over the possibility, that after the 1st attempted assassination on QV's life, that Mrs Pratt and her sister were latterday Doppelgangers.
The leather bound family album was bequeathed to me, and there is a great likeness to QV.
A further little anecdote, related by Aunty Gladwys. She found it amusing that,in the list of members of the family, that one couple had 5 male and 4 female children, but they were all little boys.
The solution was in the family bible- their name was Littleboys!
Now here is the nitty gritty. My Mum waited, at a busstop near the farm, for 5 years, for the New Empress( later City) omnibus. to her work as a jeweller at sunny Southend. Her long wait was not, however in vain. Mum and Dad got married, despite the consternation of her family.
What my Mum blamed the sickness in Postwar Society on, was what she termed the 'Latch Key Legacy, i.e Mum's not being at home, when their children returned from School.
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My Dear Lugg, In responce to your gem of archaeological acerbity, may I reminisce upon my late Mother's assertions on this premise.
She was borne to a farming family, whose roots were traced back,(by her cousin, Geoff) to Domesday times. Grandfather, Thomas Hy. was then the senior member of the family, named after a largish town in Hertfordshire. The principal claim to fame, as related to me by Mum, via her Grandma, whose maiden name, incidentally, was Ainslie, was a previous grandmother by the name of Mrs Pratt.
Now Mrs Pratt and her sister were dead ringers for Queen Victoria. Mum was told that Mrs Pratt was Housekeeper to QV's household. I have mulled over the possibility, that after the 1st attempted assassination on QV's life, that Mrs Pratt and her sister were latterday Doppelgangers.
The leather bound family album was bequeathed to me, and there is a great likeness to QV.
A further little anecdote, related by Aunty Gladwys. She found it amusing that,in the list of members of the family, that one couple had 5 male and 4 female children, but they were all little boys.
The solution was in the family bible- their name was Littleboys!
Now here is the nitty gritty. My Mum waited, at a busstop near the farm, for 5 years, for the New Empress( later City) omnibus. to her work as a jeweller at sunny Southend. Her long wait was not, however in vain. Mum and Dad got married, despite the consternation of her family.
What my Mum blamed the sickness in Postwar Society on, was what she termed the 'Latch Key Legacy, i.e Mum's not being at home, when their children returned from School.
Another reason I hate public transport. ;D
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Thankyou Lugg for your eloquent, and indeed erudite, observation!
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Campion.........an interesting read re:Pargeter. :)
http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/2012_03_01_archive.html
I don't understand this comment ....
“If it hadn’t [sic] been for Taff Jones directions we probably wouldn’t be here today.” ???
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Good point Caroline, have a brownie badge.
All I can interpret from this, is that Taff Jones was directed 'Down Under', instead of going 'Upstairs'( i.e. Heaven), after his alleged mysterious fall off the ladder, in his bungalow.
Whom, indeed, was the EP officer who went to the Antipodes, to investigate, at the behest of Uncle Bobbie, the alleged mideeds of JB there?
(Tongue in cheek) !! - Can, or will Steve uk help us with this enigma?
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Does anyone know what Jeremy's next move could be ?
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Good point Caroline, have a brownie badge.
All I can interpret from this, is that Taff Jones was directed 'Down Under', instead of going 'Upstairs'( i.e. Heaven), after his alleged mysterious fall off the ladder, in his bungalow.
Whom, indeed, was the EP officer who went to the Antipodes, to investigate, at the behest of Uncle Bobbie, the alleged mideeds of JB there?
(Tongue in cheek) !! - Can, or will Steve uk help us with this enigma?
The word 'directions' could mean anything but the author is getting at something - might have been helpful if he/she had said what they meant! :)
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Does anyone know what Jeremy's next move could be ?
Only a bowel movement at the moment,haughton,,,but keep watching.
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OK Lookout. I'll watch this space, but it seems to going on for ever. At this rate JB might wind -up completing his "whole life sentence" !!
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OK Lookout. I'll watch this space, but it seems to going on for ever. At this rate JB might wind -up completing his "whole life sentence" !!
Weren't we discussing trying to enlist the interest of a high profile person? Someone who might be interested in reviewing the new evidence and making a docu? It may have been rejected but it might influence public opinion if they were to hear it in full. I have someone in mind but anyone else got any ideas? It doesn't matter if they agree with his innocence, as long as they are interested in the debate!
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Does anyone know what Jeremy's next move could be ?
He will have to start again with fresh submissions to the CCRC.
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Weren't we discussing trying to enlist the interest of a high profile person? Someone who might be interested in reviewing the new evidence and making a docu? It may have been rejected but it might influence public opinion if they were to hear it in full. I have someone in mind but anyone else got any ideas? It doesn't matter if they agree with his innocence, as long as they are interested in the debate!
Caroline, I've been in touch with someone who possibly "knows a man who can".
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There was a tv program , called , I think "tough justice" or similar. I'll find out who did this program and direct them to JB's tough justice
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Hi ngb is that going to be another long drawn out job.
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Hi ngb is that going to be another long drawn out job.
I am afraid it will be Susan. It need not be as long and drawn out as the last application which took over 8 years, but it will not be quick.
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There was a tv program , called , I think "tough justice" or similar. I'll find out who did this program and direct them to JB's tough justice
Yes, I remember watching a movie not long ago about a lady called Sheila Bowler - that show helped her win an appeal and huge public support!!
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I've just remembered ; is was called "rough justice"
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you live here now so why worry! :) :) :) :)
Ah but some extended family still live there and depend on me for to meet education and medical costs. Not good.
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I've just remembered ; is was called "rough justice"
They don't make em any more and the production team got disbanded. Have a look at the 'torso in the tank' case in the other cases section.
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They don't make em any more and the production team got disbanded. Have a look at the 'torso in the tank' case in the other cases section.
Rough justice featured the case several years ago. David Jessel, the presenter, became friendly with bamber and used to visit him in prison. When rough justice ended he started a company called princess productions who made a documentary about the 2002 appeal. David Jessel is a member of the ccrc.
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Rough justice featured the case several years ago. David Jessel, the presenter, became friendly with bamber and used to visit him in prison. When rough justice ended he started a company called princess productions who made a documentary about the 2002 appeal. David Jessel is a member of the ccrc.
He was a CCRC Commissioner Vic, but he is no longer.
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He was a CCRC Commissioner Vic, but he is no longer.
I wonder if he still believes in JB's innocence, he would be a powerful ally!
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He was a CCRC Commissioner Vic, but he is no longer.
He appeared on the video clip which also featured Ewen smith so presumed he still was.
I shouted very loudly at the 2002 appeal that there was a massive conflict of interest within the ccrc over Jessel. He was getting documentaries commissioned about cases the ccrc were discussing where said documenteries would be worth more to his production company once recommended to appeal. After I complained he remained a ccrc commissioner but removed all trace of himself from the production company. Guess who made the documentary leading up to the 2002 appeal and guess who had one all ready to go when he would be released?.....
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He appeared on the video clip which also featured Ewen smith so presumed he still was.
I shouted very loudly at the 2002 appeal that there was a massive conflict of interest within the ccrc over Jessel. He was getting documentaries commissioned about cases the ccrc were discussing where said documenteries would be worth more to his production company once recommended to appeal. After I complained he remained a ccrc commissioner but removed all trace of himself from the production company. Guess who made the documentary leading up to the 2002 appeal and guess who had one all ready to go when he would be released?.....
Are you saying DJ had ulterior motive's here , apart from his belief an innocent man was imprisoned for a crime he believed he did not commit ?
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He appeared on the video clip which also featured Ewen smith so presumed he still was.
I shouted very loudly at the 2002 appeal that there was a massive conflict of interest within the ccrc over Jessel. He was getting documentaries commissioned about cases the ccrc were discussing where said documenteries would be worth more to his production company once recommended to appeal. After I complained he remained a ccrc commissioner but removed all trace of himself from the production company. Guess who made the documentary leading up to the 2002 appeal and guess who had one all ready to go when he would be released?.....
Then it is likely that he is still a supporter and would be a powerful ally!
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Rough justice featured the case several years ago. David Jessel, the presenter, became friendly with bamber and used to visit him in prison. When rough justice ended he started a company called princess productions who made a documentary about the 2002 appeal. David Jessel is a member of the ccrc.
Vic do you mean that RJ featured the case twice or only once? I was not aware that they had featured the case at all. Do you know how it would be possible to view the program/s?
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Mark Williams-Thomas,,tomorrow@9pm ITV,programme called " On the Run ".
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Mark Williams-Thomas,,tomorrow@9pm ITV,programme called " On the Run ".
Thanks Lookout!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avqvY1NWFTo
Can anyone find a link to the RJ programme featuring JB ?
Some interesting comment's from DJ in above link !!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avqvY1NWFTo
Can anyone find a link to the RJ programme featuring JB ?
Some interesting comment's from DJ in above link !!
Was there even a Rough Justice made about JB? I can't find any reference to it?
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Was there even a Rough Justice made about JB? I can't find any reference to it?
Me neither , maybe Vidvic will be able to help us here and point us in the right direction !!
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Was there even a Rough Justice made about JB? I can't find any reference to it?
Rough Justice was taken off the air because programmes were being made for programmes sake,not because there was an overwhelming case for innocence. Eddie Gilfoyle,Sheila Bowler,Jonathan Jones(the poor man's Jeremy Bamber)..I rest my case.
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Rough Justice was taken off the air because programmes were being made for programmes sake,not because there was an overwhelming case for innocence. Eddie Gilfoyle,Sheila Bowler,Jonathan Jones(the poor man's Jeremy Bamber)..I rest my case.
Was you there at the COA , when Vidvic was shouting loudly over DJ conflict of interest's regarding his role at the CCRC ?
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Rough Justice was taken off the air because programmes were being made for programmes sake,not because there was an overwhelming case for innocence. Eddie Gilfoyle,Sheila Bowler,Jonathan Jones(the poor man's Jeremy Bamber)..I rest my case.
Rough Justice helped overturn 18 convictions !!
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Was you there at the COA , when Vidvic was shouting loudly over DJ conflict of interest's regarding his role at the CCRC ?
No I was not. This is a good read though..http://www.innocent.org.uk/cases/sheilabowler/trialanderror-sheilabowler.pdf
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Was you there at the COA , when Vidvic was shouting loudly over DJ conflict of interest's regarding his role at the CCRC ?
I think, if you bothered to research what I've told you then you'd find me correct Jon, though I admit its far easier for you to take pot shots from the sidelines. Do a google on Justtv, a company set up by Jessel to make tv programmes on alleged MOJ cases and then check credits for the documentary made in the run up to the 2002 appeal, made by princess productions, a company owned by Justtv's board of directors. When a case is recommended for appeal by the CCRC then it's value as a doc increases, which is precisely what happened to the bamber case after it was referred for appeal with David Jessel as a commissioner and why in Peter Eatons speech on the steps of the courts of justice I wrote the line 'there needs to be an enquiry into the events that led to the case being referred in the first place'.
In answer to a sensible question, Roch, I'm fairly sure that Rough justice did a segment on bamber, I'm sure I recall seeing the tape at some point, but not a whole show, but I don't have a copy. I've watched a lot of DJ's stuff and I might be merging different recollections, but if they didn't then they certainly thought seriously about it. At every stage either princess or just tv continually approach the relatives and when they refused to speak before the 2002 appeal they sent a helicopter into the farm to take aerial shots, hovering about 30ft from the house, trying to take shots into the main bedroom window. Nice.
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How do you, or they know it was the film companies' helicopter. It could well have been Police, special branch, olive branch, the Met, MI5, SIS, or even the Border Agency. Granted it wouldn't have been one of Mertol's aliens, or a reincarnation of Hitler.
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Rough Justice was taken off the air because programmes were being made for programmes sake,not because there was an overwhelming case for innocence. Eddie Gilfoyle,Sheila Bowler,Jonathan Jones(the poor man's Jeremy Bamber)..I rest my case.
Do you believe that 'anyone' has been wrongly convicted? EVERY programme is made to attract ratings, if no one watched it (or very few) what would be the point in making it? Are you saying you think Sheila Bowler was guilty?
(Sorry Steve, I hit the modify button on your post by mistake)
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Caroline, May I suggest you ascertain if Steve uk is offline since yesterday(it seesms so far away).
He/She may unable to post, there again, she/he may be hiding behind a (brick) wall, which creates an echoing effect.
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How do you, or they know it was the film companies' helicopter. It could well have been Police, special branch, olive branch, the Met, MI5, SIS, or even the Border Agency. Granted it wouldn't have been one of Mertol's aliens, or a reincarnation of Hitler.
A) Because they wrote to the Eatons saying that they would do it.
B) The pictures were on the documentary.
I'm not an idiot Campion.
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Hi vidvic nobody on this forum could ever ever think of you as an idiot but a very nice decent guy. :)
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Thankyou, Vidvic for informing us that you are not an idiot.
I am glad, also, for you to now explain, that the relatives were properly advised, by the filming people, that production activity, was to take place in the vicinity.
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Vidvic, your Post #207 (B)
So, you and/or the relatives watched this apparently, 'hard to locate', documentary.
For myself, I am not too fussed with viewing it.
I would, however, be interested to see the Diane Keaton production. The purpose for this would be to valuate if there are gas taps available, in the interior of WHF.
You may recall that I have previously enquired, whether Mains gas was connected to the premises. They are but a short distance from the gas supply to Tollesbury. Gas was available to rural locations, for heating, lighting and power, prior to the general connection of electricity.
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I think, if you bothered to research what I've told you then you'd find me correct Jon, though I admit its far easier for you to take pot shots from the sidelines. Do a google on Justtv, a company set up by Jessel to make tv programmes on alleged MOJ cases and then check credits for the documentary made in the run up to the 2002 appeal, made by princess productions, a company owned by Justtv's board of directors. When a case is recommended for appeal by the CCRC then it's value as a doc increases, which is precisely what happened to the bamber case after it was referred for appeal with David Jessel as a commissioner and why in Peter Eatons speech on the steps of the courts of justice I wrote the line 'there needs to be an enquiry into the events that led to the case being referred in the first place'.
In answer to a sensible question, Roch, I'm fairly sure that Rough justice did a segment on bamber, I'm sure I recall seeing the tape at some point, but not a whole show, but I don't have a copy. I've watched a lot of DJ's stuff and I might be merging different recollections, but if they didn't then they certainly thought seriously about it. At every stage either princess or just tv continually approach the relatives and when they refused to speak before the 2002 appeal they sent a helicopter into the farm to take aerial shots, hovering about 30ft from the house, trying to take shots into the main bedroom window. Nice.
Vidvic , you claimed RJ made a programme over JB , did they ?
You insuated DJ was treating the Bamber case for financial gain , did he in your opinion ?
You claimed you shouted very loudly at the COA over DJ conflict of interest in the Bamber case , then you claimed you wrote a line in PE statement , did you shout or did you write ?, did anyone hear your complaint's at the COA , if so who ?
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Vidvic, your Post #207 (B)
So, you and/or the relatives watched this apparently, 'hard to locate', documentary.
For myself, I am not too fussed with viewing it.
I would, however, be interested to see the Diane Keaton production. The purpose for this would be to valuate if there are gas taps available, in the interior of WHF.
You may recall that I have previously enquired, whether Mains gas was connected to the premises. They are but a short distance from the gas supply to Tollesbury. Gas was available to rural locations, for heating, lighting and power, prior to the general connection of electricity.
It would appear from my notes that Rough Justice were looking at filming a Bamber programme when they were cut from the BBC. The 'Trial and error' series on CH4 were the same team.
From Wiki.....
On rejoining the BBC, Jessel moved to documentary-making, with a particular emphasis on miscarriages of justice. From 1985 he led the team at Rough Justice,[7] the BBC's long-running investigative TV series which re-examined the cases of a dozen people convicted of serious crimes, usually murder, and led to the eventual quashing of most of the convictions. Among his successful cases were the brothers Paul and Wayne Darvell, who typified the unglamorous and forgotten cases that Jessel and his team championed.
In 1990, the Rough Justice team decamped to Channel 4 and set up a production company, Just Television, dedicated exclusively to the investigation and publicising of miscarriages of justice. Jessel had been angered by the BBC's threats to drop the programme due to financial constraints
You will no doubt recall the programme they made.
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Vidvic , you claimed RJ made a programme over JB , did they ?
You insuated DJ was treating the Bamber case for financial gain , did he in your opinion ?
You claimed you shouted very loudly at the COA over DJ conflict of interest in the Bamber case , then you claimed you wrote a line in PE statement , did you shout or did you write ?, did anyone hear your complaint's at the COA , if so who ?
Yes, but as 'Trial and Error' on CH4. 'Rough Justice' was cancelled.
No comment.
I complained to the Police and I wrote Peter's speech.
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Yes, but as 'Trial and Error' on CH4. 'Rough Justice' was cancelled.
No comment.
I complained to the Police and I wrote Peter's speech.
Do you have any financial interest's with anyone involved at any level in the ' Bamber ' case ,
either now or at anytime in the past ?
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Do you have any financial interest's with anyone involved at any level in the ' Bamber ' case ,
either now or at anytime in the past ?
Nope. Never have.
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Vidvic, your Post #207 (B)
So, you and/or the relatives watched this apparently, 'hard to locate', documentary.
For myself, I am not too fussed with viewing it.
I would, however, be interested to see the Diane Keaton production. The purpose for this would be to valuate if there are gas taps available, in the interior of WHF.
You may recall that I have previously enquired, whether Mains gas was connected to the premises. They are but a short distance from the gas supply to Tollesbury. Gas was available to rural locations, for heating, lighting and power, prior to the general connection of electricity.
I too am interested to see the Diane Keaton production. Unfortunately I have not been able to find it anywhere.
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Xmas Greetings, Takeshi - Long time 'no read'.
Two points to be pondered:-
(1) Would the intrusive filming, by the helicopter crew, be to ascertain the useage of the 'Box Room? That room referred to by a rep of the relatives as the 'Sewing(box) Room'. It is to be observed that the safest refuge in time of emergency, at WHF, would be the 'Panic(button) Room-i.e. the small boxroom between the 2 main bedrooms.
(2) Would the incursive RJ filming by DJ have been of sufficient propensity for a (Super)Injunction, upon the Media, to have been obtained by the occupants of WHF?
A question for our helpful telephones 'geek', Mr Reader.
Perchance the Panic Button wire was severed, would alarm have automatically ,by default. been alerted at EP Control?
A question for 'Pretty Sharp Black Isle' Susan, and fellow Forum members:-
Whom, apart from Nevill and June and the installers, would have been party to, or have had the opportunity to ascertain, the sensitive knowledge of the existence and location of the PANIC BUTTON?
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Morning my dear a very happy Christmas to you. Ah this panic button. I would suspect Jeremy would know Barbara Wilson and maybe Ralphs close friends. Don't think the relatives would be privy to it. The police would know if they were awake that day :) :) :) It is not a subject that would be advertised.
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Susan, thankyou for your perception. But think and KISSusan!! Who was recently on his hols at WHF. iT WAS hERR oTTO! XXXX
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Campy who was on hols at the farm only Sheila. She would not know about this panic button. :D ;D ;D
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No, Susie, It was HE who had apparently left on the Thursday, before Sheila and the twins arrived on the Sunday.
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Campy who is he I am just learning :) Mr. P.
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Affirmative, Susie. It was HE who shall not be named. That Person who recently, had conveniently inveigled JB to leave his 'dabs' on his Super Duper (Bisley quality) firearm.
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wow you super sleuth. good thinking batman. now going for walkies. :) my campion flower.
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wow you super sleuth. good thinking batman. now going for walkies. :) my campion flower.
Which campion flower would that be,Susan,,pink,red,white or bladder.?
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Susan, enjoy your 'walkies'. Do you know in crossword jargon, a 'flower' can be a river (of Truth).
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Susan, thankyou for your perception. But think and KISSusan!! Who was recently on his hols at WHF. iT WAS hERR oTTO! XXXX
Campion are you about to Flick another theory into the skirmish?
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Hi Campy No I did not know a flower could be a river of Truth. I am learning daily from your mindful of knowledge. I shall now refer to you as The Knowledge. :)
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Hi Campy No I did not know a flower could be a river of Truth. I am learning daily from your mindful of knowledge. I shall now refer to you as The Knowledge. :)
Susan, it changes from a flower to a flow-er
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Hi april you and campy are a match made in heaven :)
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Hi Campy No I did not know a flower could be a river of Truth. I am learning daily from your mindful of knowledge. I shall now refer to you as The Knowledge. :)
The Oracle. ;D
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Perchance the Panic Button wire was severed, would alarm have automatically, by default, been alerted at EP Control?
I have no information about how police-supplied panic buttons work. A typical burglar alarm of the period would consist of more than just a panic button, but could include one or more panic buttons. Those buttons would not normally be hidden. They were wired in and disconnecting the wiring would activate the alarm. However, such an alarm system, if "monitored", dialled out to notify the monitoring centre, which wouldn't be possible while any telephone on the same line was connected and off-hook. It's conceivable, though perhaps unlikely, that police-supplied panic buttons were more sophisticated. Do you remember the very old call boxes with "A" and "B" buttons? They also had a completely separate third button that could be pressed in emergency. I don't know what that button did, but presumably it somehow allowed an emergency call without the person who pressed it needing to dial.
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I dont tbink there would have been a panic button.
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I dont tbink there would have been a panic button.
One more thing you have to learn about this site bigdave1975:there's a hierarchy involving those who know the location of the panic button and those who don't. I along with yourself fall into the latter category.
Of course those in the know get away with it using the blanket excuse of security..
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One more thing you have to learn about this site bigdave1975:there's a hierarchy involving those who know the location of the panic button and those who don't. I along with yourself fall into the latter category.
Of course those in the know get away with it using the blanket excuse of security..
Am I included in this hierarchy.?
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One more thing you have to learn about this site bigdave1975:there's a hierarchy involving those who know the location of the panic button and those who don't. I along with yourself fall into the latter category.
Of course those in the know get away with it using the blanket excuse of security..
I'm not sure what you mean by that remark Steve? I know where it is. But I'm not revealing it to anyone for the sake of security. But I don't think I've every used that knowledge in the way you suggest? It is just a knowledge that will go no further as far as I am concerned.
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I'm not sure what you mean by that remark Steve? I know where it is. But I'm not revealing it to anyone for the sake of security. But I don't think I've every used that knowledge in the way you suggest? It is just a knowledge that will go no further as far as I am concerned.
However it is a factor in the case and it's frustrating not knowing where it was located that August morning. Of course I bow to the relatives' wishes for security cognizant of the history of the building but it does limit the debate one can have being kept in the dark.
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However it is a factor in the case and it's frustrating not knowing where it was located that August morning. Of course I bow to the relatives' wishes for security cognizant of the history of the building but it does limit the debate one can have being kept in the dark.
How can it limit the debate just because you do not know where it is? What we do know is that it was never used anyway. Which immediately eliminates any debate about it anyway.
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How can it limit the debate just because you do not know where it is? What we do know is that it was never used anyway. Which immediately eliminates any debate about it anyway.
It limits the debate insofar as one cannot gauge correctly Nevill's movements and has to assume that he did not have time to activate it and was therefore quickly taken unawares and disposed of as a threat without having the chance to raise the alarm. One might have thought that in extremis Nevill would have chosen to activate a panic alarm rather than waste time telephoning a 7 figure number in the middle of the night with no guarantee that Jeremy would pick up at the other end.
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It limits the debate insofar as one cannot gauge correctly Nevill's movements and has to assume that he did not have time to activate it and was therefore quickly taken unawares and disposed of as a threat without having the chance to raise the alarm. One might have thought that in extremis Nevill would have chosen to activate a panic alarm rather than waste time telephoning a 7 figure number in the middle of the night with no guarantee that Jeremy would pick up at the other end.
Not really. It does not depend on how quickly Ralph could reach the panic button if he chose to phone JB instead.
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If there was a panic button installed at the time, the logical place for it would have been close to the bed in the main bedroom, and that's where mike tesko thought it was.
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If there was a panic button installed at the time, the logical place for it would have been close to the bed in the main bedroom, and that's where mike tesko thought it was.
Don't speculate on my account please.
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If there was a panic button installed at the time, the logical place for it would have been close to the bed in the main bedroom, and that's where mike tesko thought it was.
Very cold. ;)
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Reader is right.Panic alarms are usually installed near the bed.I guess the logic is that a person/persons are most vulnerable whilst in bed,and intruders are more likely during the night.The actual whereabouts of the said "panic" button leads me to wonder if it was,in fact,a panic button at all? And even if it was,nobody knows if it actually worked. There is certainly no mention of it in anyones statements,and IF,as vic has told us previously,that the relatives believe that Nevill went downstairs (during the murders)to try to reach the "panic" button,then WHY did they not allude to this in their statements or at trial?
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Reader is right.Panic alarms are usually installed near the bed.I guess the logic is that a person/persons are most vulnerable whilst in bed,and intruders are more likely during the night.The actual whereabouts of the said "panic" button leads me to wonder if it was,in fact,a panic button at all? And even if it was,nobody knows if it actually worked. There is certainly no mention of it in anyones statements,and IF,as vic has told us previously,that the relatives believe that Nevill went downstairs (during the murders)to try to reach the "panic" button,then WHY did they not allude to this in their statements or at trial?
I read something somewhere. I am trying to find it. It states there were a button, but it was not connected. I have also read that there wasn't one at all.
Vic did say there was one and you are right Tyler, the family thought Nevill was trying to get to it before he died....So therefore if there was one, then it must be downstairs...Like you I can't find much reference to this anywhere in anyone's statements... :-\ :-\ :-\
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I know where it is located,its just that I don't believe it was operational at the time of the murders,or even an actual 'panic' button at all. I would like to see the truth of it all confirmed,since the relatives have accused Jeremy of activating it prior to the murders,to test police response times.If this accusation can be dismissed,then surely it follows that much of their allegations regarding Jeremy can be dismissed?
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I know where it is located,its just that I don't believe it was operational at the time of the murders,or even an actual 'panic' button at all. I would like to see the truth of it all confirmed,since the relatives have accused Jeremy of activating it prior to the murders,to test police response times.If this accusation can be dismissed,then surely it follows that much of their allegations regarding Jeremy can be dismissed?
Hi Tyler :)
Can I ask where its located please, I suspect the den, but why would it be in there asks moi? Surely an alarm button would have been placed in the bedroom, in case of night time intruders? Or is this alarm button a secret? :) :) :) :)
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This is redolent of 'Hunt the Thlmble'.
The button, surely, will be found with the thimble, in the so-called Sewing Room!
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This is redolent of 'Hunt the Thlmble'.
The button, surely, will be found with the thimble, in the so-called Sewing Room!
Hi campion :)
Are you saying the button was upstairs in the sewing room next to the main bedroom. Or do I have to use cryptology to decipher the cryptic clue, that of course if it is cryptic.... :-\ :) :) :)
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Patti,is it not common knowledge that it was/is located in the kitchen?
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Patti,is it not common knowledge that it was/is located in the kitchen?
Thank you tyler...then it must be visible in the photo's of the kitchen... :) :) :) :)
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Yes, Patti, you are both cute and astute.
The Panic Room, a place of supposed safety, will be adjacent to the main bedroom.
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Hi Tyler :)
Can I ask where its located please, I suspect the den, but why would it be in there asks moi? Surely an alarm button would have been placed in the bedroom, in case of night time intruders? Or is this alarm button a secret? :) :) :) :)
Its a secret. Only 9,000,000 people know where it is. ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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:o Confusion! Is there anyone on here that feels sorry for me...I have headache you know!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Its like cluedo, trying to find where this here panic button is?...Is it in the kitchen or the sewing room?
And why does half the world except me know where it is???????? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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:o Confusion! Is there anyone on here that feels sorry for me...I have headache you know!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Its like cluedo, trying to find where this here panic button is?...Is it in the kitchen or the sewing room?
And why does half the world except me know where it is???????? :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Lovely Patti, commiserations :) I, too have a headache, but it was worth it, it was a wonderful lunch. My friends' panic button was near their phone, close to their front door which was the main entrance to their house. Any help :D :D :D
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Lovely Patti, commiserations :) I, too have a headache, but it was worth it, it was a wonderful lunch. My friends' panic button was near their phone, close to their front door which was the main entrance to their house. Any help :D :D :D
Awe, so pleased you have had a lovely lunch and happy birthday me lovely.....The headache is slowly wearing off, but it has tired me out; glass lifting is very strenuous work you know ;)
I have noticed that the phone line in the kitchen runs through the window that leads into the back kitchen, well it has a sink in it....I think. Would it have been linked to the phone? I always thought it was linked to the blue phone upstairs.....I often wondered why NB didn't use this phone, if he at one point was upstairs....Could this be why the family thought he was going for the panic button....and not the phone? If he was going for the phone then why not the one upstairs? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm :D :D :D :D :D
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Awe, so pleased you have had a lovely lunch and happy birthday me lovely.....The headache is slowly wearing off, but it has tired me out; glass lifting is very strenuous work you know ;)
I have noticed that the phone line in the kitchen runs through the window that leads into the back kitchen, well it has a sink in it....I think. Would it have been linked to the phone? I always thought it was linked to the blue phone upstairs.....I often wondered why NB didn't use this phone, if he at one point was upstairs....Could this be why the family thought he was going for the panic button....and not the phone? If he was going for the phone then why not the one upstairs? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm :D :D :D :D :D
Might there have been a situation emerging that he judged to be potentially dangerous but he didn't want to raise alarm by voicing the thought to others?
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Might there have been a situation emerging that he judged to be potentially dangerous but he didn't want to raise alarm by voicing the thought to others?
April, please forgive me, but you will have to run that by me tomorrow when I am more alert...I am taking up pole dancing I need a new career.....lol :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Patti imagine you taking up pole dancing I have just packed it in and taken up mud wrestling ;D ;D ;D
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Patti imagine you taking up pole dancing I have just packed it in and taken up mud wrestling ;D ;D ;D
I love mud! I was going to swim in the mud pools in Bulgaria, but looking at it put me off, there was no way I was getting in there....it had not been used since roman times and I feared it might be full of large eels. It was meant to help my joints feel better. There was an hotel near by who provided these mud baths, so we went there. Rolls and Merc's in the park and we were met getting out of the car by someone from the hotel who asked us what we wanted....Mud we said and we were ordered to go away....hahahhahah ;D ;D ;D ;D