Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: killingeve on November 25, 2012, 11:44:AM
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The following ITV documentary at approx 6.20 mins in shows David Boutflour as stating that Sheila's nails were still perfect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo
Is this surprising? My nails are approx 4mm above my fingertip and have in the past been longer. However, short or long they rarely break despite engaging in a wide variety of activities ;). Admittedly I have never pulled a trigger on the type of rifle used, but would this be any more hazaradous to a set of fingernails than other activities? Occasionally one of my nails breaks, chips or splits but this seems unrelated to any activity.
Pre political correctness I believe males would often say to females "Be careful you don't break your nails". But nails are made of keratin, a tough biological matter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratin
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The following ITV documentary at approx 6.20 mins in shows David Boutflour as stating that Sheila's nails were still perfect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo
Is this surprising? My nails are approx 4mm above my fingertip and have in the past been longer. However, short or long they rarely break despite engaging in a wide variety of activities ;). Admittedly I have never pulled a trigger on the type of rifle used, but would this be any more hazaradous to a set of fingernails than other activities? Occasionally one of my nails breaks, chips or splits but this seems unrelated to any activity.
Pre political correctness I believe males would often say to females "Be careful you don't break your nails". But nails are made of keratin, a tough biological matter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratin
Good post! Where the idea came from that breaking a nail is a forgone conclusion to firing the rifle is beyond me. Someone broke a nail during a test fire but by then, the rifle was damaged. Is that any wonder given that a novice may have used it to kill 4 people before turning it on themselves?
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Good post! Where the idea came from that breaking a nail is a forgone conclusion to firing the rifle is beyond me. Someone broke a nail during a test fire but by then, the rifle was damaged. Is that any wonder given that a novice may have used it to kill 4 people before turning it on themselves?
Hello Caroline
Pleased to meet/post with you.
I have recently read the book by Roger Wilkes and I believe the person that broke a nail during testing was Malcolm Fletcher. It states "During labaratory tests, the weapon's magazine release mechanism kept jamming, and on one occasion Fletcher had broken a thumbnail trying to clear the magazine after firing it. But he agreed that once the person firing the rifle had the knack , it was 'very easy'".
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Hello Caroline
Pleased to meet/post with you.
I have recently read the book by Roger Wilkes and I believe the person that broke a nail during testing was Malcolm Fletcher. It states "During labaratory tests, the weapon's magazine release mechanism kept jamming, and on one occasion Fletcher had broken a thumbnail trying to clear the magazine after firing it. But he agreed that once the person firing the rifle had the knack , it was 'very easy'".
Hi Nun pleased to meet you too! Haven't read that particular book yet but Steve has quoted it so often that I have just ordered it - Is it any good?
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Hi Nun pleased to meet you too! Haven't read that particular book yet but Steve has quoted it so often that I have just ordered it - Is it any good?
Hi Caroline
It's excellent, objective and bipartisan. I've read some of Steve_uk's posts and if you haven't read the book you could be forgiven for thinking that it is anti JB but this is not the case. Steve_uk is selective in what he quotes. I hope to give some balance :).
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Ann Eaton found a false nail in Sheila's make-up bag..
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Ann Eaton found a false nail in Sheila's make-up bag..
I found a nail in my driveway the other day. Hmm lucky I did. ;)
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Ann Eaton found a false nail in Sheila's make-up bag..
Ann Eaton appears to have found a lot of false stuff ;D ;D ;D. However, no doubt Sheila's nails were analysed and tests carried out to ascertain whether or not nails in general could withstand the firing of some 25 rounds ;).
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Ann Eaton appears to have found a lot of false stuff ;D ;D ;D. However, no doubt Sheila's nails were analysed and tests carried out to ascertain whether or not nails in general could withstand the firing of some 25 rounds ;).
I thought you as a female might have been able to shed some light as to the degree of toughness of false nails as opposed to keratin,but as with all your other posts thus far I have been sorely disappointed.
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I thought you as a female might have been able to shed some light as to the degree of toughness of false nails as opposed to keratin,but as with all your other posts thus far I have been sorely disappointed.
Please confirm whether or not Sheila's nails on the night of the tragedy were false or natural with your source. How VERY dare you criticise my posts. I'm a Newbie for God's sake what do you expect? You would have made a dreadful school teacher Steve_uk.
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Hello Naughty Nun think steve-uk is a school teacher talks to us as if he is one :) :) :)
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Please confirm whether or not Sheila's nails on the night of the tragedy were false or natural with your source. How VERY dare you criticise my posts. I'm a Newbie for God's sake what do you expect? You would have made a dreadful school teacher Steve_uk.
Lookout implied that I was looking through the window at White House Farm and also speculated I might well have been the tramp exiting from the fanlight in the roof in the early hours of Wednesday morning,but I'm afraid I wasn't privy to Sheila's beauty routine,though I would assume that false nails by necessity were more hardwearing that natural ones.
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Lookout implied that I was looking through the window at White House Farm and also speculated I might well have been the tramp exiting from the fanlight in the roof in the early hours of Wednesday morning,but I'm afraid I wasn't privy to Sheila's beauty routine,though I would assume that false nails by necessity were more hardwearing that natural ones.
Thats the first time I've heard of that Steve? I've read about a stooped figure walking away from WHF, but not a tramp exiting from the fanlight? By stating all these things that apparently happened you are building a case in favour of Jeremy Bamber?
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Thats the first time I've heard of that Steve? I've read about a stooped figure walking away from WHF, but not a tramp exiting from the fanlight? By stating all these things that apparently happened you are building a case in favour of Jeremy Bamber?
No not really because you have to weigh all the evidence in its entirety and for me it's beyond reasonable doubt. The only thing that would tip me into the Defence camp now would be for Julie to say she made everything up,of which the chances of happening are infinitesimal.
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Lookout implied that I was looking through the window at White House Farm and also speculated I might well have been the tramp exiting from the fanlight in the roof in the early hours of Wednesday morning,but I'm afraid I wasn't privy to Sheila's beauty routine,though I would assume that false nails by necessity were more hardwearing that natural ones.
Steve,personally,I have found natural nails more hardwearing.False ones do tend to come off unless one uses really strong glue.
What about the piece of missing toenail (painted red) that can be seen in one of Sheilas crime scene photos.The missing piece was alleged to have been found in the area of the aga.
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Lookout implied that I was looking through the window at White House Farm and also speculated I might well have been the tramp exiting from the fanlight in the roof in the early hours of Wednesday morning,but I'm afraid I wasn't privy to Sheila's beauty routine,though I would assume that false nails by necessity were more hardwearing that natural ones.
Hi Stevefalse nails in the 80s were made of plastic so they wouldnt have chipped or broken cant remember how we got them off in those days.
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Steve,personally,I have found natural nails more hardwearing.False ones do tend to come off unless one uses really strong glue.
What about the piece of missing toenail (painted red) that can be seen in one of Sheilas crime scene photos.The missing piece was alleged to have been found in the area of the aga.
That could have happened any time earlier in the evening. The kitchen doesn't look so comfortable for a family as affluent as the Bambers. I would assume Sheila would have spent more time in the lounge or her bedroom.
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Hi Maggie did you wear false nails :o nothing false about me then or now :) :) :)
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Hi Maggie did you wear false nails :o nothing false about me then or now :) :) :)
A bit in the 70's susie, was never too good at all the false stuff. Wore false eyelashes too but they usually sprang off at the corner...not a good look. :o :o No doubt my false nails usually ended up with one hanging off. :-[ 8)
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Ann Eaton found a false nail in Sheila's make-up bag..
And?
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Hi Caroline
It's excellent, objective and bipartisan. I've read some of Steve_uk's posts and if you haven't read the book you could be forgiven for thinking that it is anti JB but this is not the case. Steve_uk is selective in what he quotes. I hope to give some balance :).
Oh right, I have been perhaps a little harsh with Mr Wilkes, I shall look forward to reading it! Thanks Nun :) I did notice that our Steve was quite selective after reading Colin's book so shouldn't be surprised :).
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Lookout implied that I was looking through the window at White House Farm and also speculated I might well have been the tramp exiting from the fanlight in the roof in the early hours of Wednesday morning,but I'm afraid I wasn't privy to Sheila's beauty routine,though I would assume that false nails by necessity were more hardwearing that natural ones.
Hard wearing yes but the kind you stick on are inclined to come off!
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And?
The issue was whether a Sheila wearing false nails would have been more or less likely to have them chipped as to the natural keratin when she purportedly reloaded a rifle twice.
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The issue was whether a Sheila wearing false nails would have been more or less likely to have them chipped as to the natural keratin when she purportedly reloaded a rifle twice.
As far as I am aware Sheila wasn't wearing false nails! But there is no scientific law that would dictate that had Sheila fired the rifle, he nails would break. And I feel the term 'perfectly manicured' is misleading!!
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Do we actually know if Sheila had to load any rifle?It has been suggested on here that there is a possibility that AP'S rifle was at the farm and both this weapon and the Anshutz could have had fully loaded magazines
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Do we actually know if Sheila had to load any rifle?It has been suggested on here that there is a possibility that AP'S rifle was at the farm and both this weapon and the Anshutz could have had fully loaded magazines
Anthony Pargeter won a libel case against that remark so be careful. Sheila would in any case have had to reload as there were 25 shots fired.
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Anthony Pargeter won a libel case against that remark so be careful. Sheila would in any case have had to reload as there were 25 shots fired.
What remark? That it has been suggested that AP's rifle was at the farm that night?This comes from AP's first police statement that he always kept his rifle at the farm,and also the fact that Jeremy listed on paper for the police when they asked what weapons were in the farmhouse.
AP sued the newspaper for libel for suggesting that he may have been involved in the murders didnt he?Well I am suggesting no such thing!
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I would say that the trigger would be pulled by the middle of finger, not the nail. She was at a party Saturday night, so she may have had her nails done. I'm not sure they were false, the pathologist would have said in his report, I would have thought. Looking at the images of her hands they look like her own nails to me. :)
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I would say that the trigger would be pulled by the middle of finger, not the nail. She was at a party Saturday night, so she may have had her nails done. I'm not sure they were false, the pathologist would have said in his report, I would have thought. Looking at the images of her hands they look like her own nails to me. :)
Hi Patti. Sheila was not master of a gun. She was anyhow allegedly involved in a struggle with Nevill where the ceiling light got broken,leaving aside whether the table was overturned or any sugar was spilled. There were heavy blood deposits on the floor by the telephone in the kitchen,yet nothing in the front of Sheila's nightie,neither any signs of exertion it appears from the pictures.
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Hi Patti. Sheila was not master of a gun. She was anyhow allegedly involved in a struggle with Nevill where the ceiling light got broken,leaving aside whether the table was overturned or any sugar was spilled. There were heavy blood deposits on the floor by the telephone in the kitchen,yet nothing in the front of Sheila's nightie,neither any signs of exertion it appears from the pictures.
Again - and?
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What remark? That it has been suggested that AP's rifle was at the farm that night?This comes from AP's first police statement that he always kept his rifle at the farm,and also the fact that Jeremy listed on paper for the police when they asked what weapons were in the farmhouse.
AP sued the newspaper for libel for suggesting that he may have been involved in the murders didnt he?Well I am suggesting no such thing!
You are being disingenuous I'm afraid but I do clarify that Anthony Pargeter did win a libel action by suggesting that the .22 anschutz rifle was used in the murders.
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Hi Patti. Sheila was not master of a gun. She was anyhow allegedly involved in a struggle with Nevill where the ceiling light got broken,leaving aside whether the table was overturned or any sugar was spilled. There were heavy blood deposits on the floor by the telephone in the kitchen,yet nothing in the front of Sheila's nightie,neither any signs of exertion it appears from the pictures.
Hi Steve
You would not have to be a master of a gun to use one. Experts say that the rifle was light and that a child could have used it and the recoil of the gun was small....It's not rocket science!
You pop bullets into a magazine, put the magazine into the rifle, flick the coil and shoot....I think it is ludicrous to suggest that she could not use the rifle...she was 27 years old. There is no training involved in my opinion.
The suggestion of a struggle in the kitchen? well that is debatable. The stools where placed under the table by the raid team, the raid team were the ones that moved the table and spilled the sugar bowl, which smashed under the table....so all this talk about sugar being on Shelia's feet is pure hearsay and, even if the sugar was on the floor, it would be likely that the sugar would have fell off her feet anyway as she went upstairs.....There was no evidence or forensic report of sugar being anywhere else in the house, other than under the table.....
This might be a harsh thing to say, but NB was rendered incapable of fighting back. How the light shade got smashed I have no idea. I suppose it could have broken by a number of ways. :) :) :)
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Hi Steve
You would not have to be a master of a gun to use one. Experts say that the rifle was light and that a child could have used it and the recoil of the gun was small....It's not rocket science!
You pop bullets into a magazine, put the magazine into the rifle, flick the coil and shoot....I think it is ludicrous to suggest that she could not use the rifle...she was 27 years old. There is no training involved in my opinion.
The suggestion of a struggle in the kitchen? well that is debatable. The stools where placed under the table by the raid team, the raid team were the ones that moved the table and spilled the sugar bowl, which smashed under the table....so all this talk about sugar being on Shelia's feet is pure hearsay and, even if the sugar was on the floor, it would be likely that the sugar would have fell off her feet anyway as she went upstairs.....There was no evidence or forensic report of sugar being anywhere else in the house, other than under the table.....
This might be a harsh thing to say, but NB was rendered incapable of fighting back. How the light shade got smashed I have no idea. I suppose it could have broken by a number of ways. :) :) :)
Hi Patti,
Something about the sugar, if it got there through the struggle and had it been all over the floor, surely NB's feet would have had traces also?
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Hi Patti,
Something about the sugar, if it got there through the struggle and had it been all over the floor, surely NB's feet would have had traces also?
Didn't the raid team knock it over?
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It had been established that the raid team had made most,if not all,of the mess in the kitchen.But why,and how? If nobody was alive in that house then why the upturned kitchen table and stools and other general mess? According to the raid team members statements,they crept silently through the rooms singularly whilst being covered by another officer.Operator heard movement and voices over the phone,and yet raid team state that they were whispering and using hand signals.
It just doesnt make any sense.Unless something went off in the kitchen and this is related to "shooting incident in the kitchen"?
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Hi Caroline I read the raid team knocked over the sugar and something else as well but can't remember what.
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http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,618.msg13754.html#msg13754
See "The Struggle in the Kitchen"
Patti........you may be interested in "Points of Exit and Entry" if you havent already read it :)
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Didn't the raid team knock it over?
I think so but my comment was IF there had been sugar all over the floor as aresult of a struggle in the kitchen wouldn't Neville have had sugar on his feet too?
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I think so but my comment was IF there had been sugar all over the floor as aresult of a struggle in the kitchen wouldn't Neville have had sugar on his feet too?
Wouldn't these / those sugar granules also have got onto Jeremy's footwear, and have been found at or on the window where he exited the scene, if he was the killer. Also, why didn't the sugar granules extend into the downstairs office, and gun cupboard, where the silencer was hidden? Why didn't the sugar granules extend out into the main hallway, and up the main stairs, into the main bedroom? You see, its all just a red herring, its a red herring because all the sugar grains are confined to the kitchen, that got distributed in the kitchen during the training exercise...
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Wouldn't these / those sugar granules also have got onto Jeremy's footwear, and have been found at or on the window where he exited the scene, if he was the killer. Also, why didn't the sugar granules extend into the downstairs office, and gun cupboard, where the silencer was hidden? Why didn't the sugar granules extend out into the main hallway, and up the main stairs, into the main bedroom? You see, its all just a red herring, its a red herring because all the sugar grains are confined to the kitchen, that got distributed in the kitchen during the training exercise...
Exactly, it would be everywhere IF it had been knocked all over the floor in a struggle.
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You are being disingenuous I'm afraid but I do clarify that Anthony Pargeter did win a libel action by suggesting that the .22 anschutz rifle was used in the murders.
Bmber made a list of all the firearms that were kept at the house. This list agreed with the list that the relatives made.
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Didn't the raid team knock it over?
Yes I seem to remember reading that as well?
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Wouldn't these / those sugar granules also have got onto Jeremy's footwear, and have been found at or on the window where he exited the scene, if he was the killer. Also, why didn't the sugar granules extend into the downstairs office, and gun cupboard, where the silencer was hidden? Why didn't the sugar granules extend out into the main hallway, and up the main stairs, into the main bedroom? You see, its all just a red herring, its a red herring because all the sugar grains are confined to the kitchen, that got distributed in the kitchen during the training exercise...
That also is a worthy comment. But I suppose it could be argued that the time lapse between the murders and the testing of Bamber's clothing was too great to establish that fact?