Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: killingeve on August 09, 2012, 12:54:AM
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Ask any counsellor, or anyone that works with the bereaved, and they will tell you that there's no right or wrong way to behave when losing friends/family.
JB might have appeared not to have cared at times but this does not indicate guilt.
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yes people react in all diffrent sorts of ways.
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Ask any counsellor, or anyone that works with the bereaved, and they will tell you that there's no right or wrong way to behave when losing friends/family.
JB might have appeared not to have cared at times but this does not indicate guilt.
Completely agree with what you say, in particular following a v v close mates recent death, where his close mates and family have all grieved in very different ways.
However, sadly many people will cast aspersions if you are not seen to grieve in the 'correct manner.' This has certainly been the case with JB.
Who are society to judge or tell people how they should grieve. It is completely different for different people.
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Ask any counsellor, or anyone that works with the bereaved, and they will tell you that there's no right or wrong way to behave when losing friends/family.
JB might have appeared not to have cared at times but this does not indicate guilt.
That is so true, in my professional life and private life I have seen people react in so many different ways from the expected tears to laughing, Shock produces many different reactions, once people would just have said Jeremy had gone off the rails and no wonder.
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A subject i know quite well, the loss of a family member, a close friend will bring grief to the person affected, how they react and cope and the long term process of recovery, given the events of that night and the large loss of life to that family i would have thought it beyond normality to even measure the grief to the affected including jeremy, .
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We all grieve in different ways, i agree. Most of us lose our loved ones to natural causes or accidents. But its a tad different when FIVE members of your family, including two small boys, are BRUTALLY murdered. One beaten horrifically with the butt of a gun.
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We all grieve in different ways, i agree. Most of us lose our loved ones to natural causes or accidents. But its a tad different when FIVE members of your family, including two small boys, are BRUTALLY murdered. One beaten horrifically with the butt of a gun.
Can you explain Ann Eaton's reaction to that then? For she didn't show many signs of grief either.
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I accept that andrea and i will not run away from your post, in my expieriences it goes betond what you say , those living blame themselves and each other, and its important not to compare events like these however tragic with other cases. It can take people years to actually come to terms what happened , and trying to understand why.
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She didnt swan off on holliday either did she? C'mon Grahame, Bambers behaviour after his family were killed did not do him any favours. Like i say we all grieve differently, but most of us lose our loved ones to accident or illness. Its very different when five of them are murdered.
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I accept that andrea and i will not run away from your post, in my expieriences , those living blame themselves and each other, and its important not to compare events like these however tragic with other cases. It can take people years to actually come to terms what happened , and trying to understand why.
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You'll always have the " watchers ".Particularly members of the family who will scrutinise your reactions at the passing of a relative,close or otherwise. Waiting their chance to point a finger in readiness for the gossip-mongers to have a field day.
" It's all put on,,it's false ",, you'll hear them say,,when describing a family member at a funeral.
What was expected of Jeremy.? Was he supposed to have collapsed in a heap,blubbering.?
Getting over the initial shock of the deaths,,and the way in which they died,was in itself, the most tragic of circumstances,and that alone would leave you numb and void of any other thoughts other than why.
Nobody should have to feel obliged to shed tears just because it's a funeral. Jeremy probably didn't feel like crying at that time,,so why and what had his emotions got to do with anyone,,least of all the case itself.?
I'd say there was something radically wrong with anyone who can " turn the tears on " at will. I'd be far more suspicious of them.! I don't do crocodile tears,,they belong to con-men.
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I accept that andrea and i will not run away from your post, in my expieriences it goes betond what you say , those living blame themselves and each other, and its important not to compare events like these however tragic with other cases. It can take people years to actually come to terms what happened , and trying to understand why.
I understand that, mertol.
Bambers behaviour spoke volumes, and trying to sell his dead sisters pictures too.
Weather nice, again, yippeee
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I understand that, mertol.
Bambers behaviour spoke volumes, and trying to sell his dead sisters pictures too.
Weather nice, again, yippeee
Well you will read the Sun,Andrea. Poor you.
Elaborate on behaviour please.?
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Erm, no Lookut i dont read the sun, actually.
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She didnt swan off on holliday either did she? C'mon Grahame, Bambers behaviour after his family were killed did not do him any favours. Like i say we all grieve differently, but most of us lose our loved ones to accident or illness. Its very different when five of them are murdered.
It did not do him any favours even i will accept that unknown to him at the time, he would have no idea of what was to follow, you will often hear life goes on it does and it has to, why did the relatives offer to go with him for a break somewhere WHF can run without them there just a thought.
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The journo who Bamber tried to flog the pictures gave a statement to the police, and was willing to give evidence in court, he wasnt needed.
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She didnt swan off on holliday either did she? C'mon Grahame, Bambers behaviour after his family were killed did not do him any favours. Like i say we all grieve differently, but most of us lose our loved ones to accident or illness. Its very different when five of them are murdered.
He also did not want to live in the house after those murders. Ann Eaton did and even keeps it the same to this day. Remember also that his chief accuser JM also went with him. Quite frankly if the same thing happened to my family I would want to get as far away as possible from the scene of the crime and would also put my house up for sale. Believe me JB acted in a far more "normal" way withing the pattern of grief than Ann Eaton did. Even her husband thought it strange that she was so eager to move into that house.
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My disdain for the tabloids ive never found a scale to put them in , what was worse jeremy offering the pictures or a vile press listening ? its not quite all one way andrea.
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My disdain for the tabloids ive never found a scale to put them in , what was worse jeremy offering the pictures or a vile press listening ? its not quite all one way andrea.
They listened, but didnt buy the photos.
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He also did not want to live in the house after those murders. Ann Eaton did and even keeps it the same to this day. Remember also that his chief accuser JM also went with him. Quite frankly I if the same thing happened to my family I would want to get as far away as possible from the scene of the crime and would also put my house up for sale. Believe me JB acted in a far more "normal" way withing the pattern of grief than Ann Eaton did. Even her husband thought it strange that she was so eager to move into that house.
I understand WHF is a grade 2 listed building, if i had the power i would have knocked it down.
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Hi lookout I think the family backgroud Jeremy came from and the private schools he went to do not encourage children to show emotions. Therefore when Jeremy grew up he was still the same but of course he does not mean he does not feel emotion. Can you remember William and Harry when they walked behind their Mother's coffin we did not see one hint of tears or emotion but we know how they loved their Mother and probably still miss her.
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They listened, but didnt buy the photos.
Knowing the press they would have a dictating machine with them , a copy of what was discussed that i would like to hear.
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Didnt hear of any type of recording equipment used.
He did give a statemenet to the police about the meeting though.
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My disdain for the tabloids ive never found a scale to put them in , what was worse jeremy offering the pictures or a vile press listening ? its not quite all one way andrea.
Believe me Mertol the Sun was not that moral. You just have to see how they treat other important stories to see that. The Sun was one of those papers that believed Bamber was guilty and it so happened that a story about Bamber "allegedly" trying to sell pictures of his naked sister to them waqs more of a scoop than the pictures themselves. Because (1) It presents them in a high moral stand and therefore a very favourable light in the eyes of the public. and (2) I drags up dirt on Bamber who they said was guilty anyway.
Don't forget my friend's encounter with the editor of the Sun in a party where he was "celebrating" with police on the successful conviction of Bamber and said to my friend, "Of course we know the little shit didn't do it". So the Sun was very biased against Bamber to start with. In the light of that I cannot think as to why Bamber would try and sell them pictures of his sister? Unless of course it was a setup designed to trip up a naive young man? Might be a good move to question the man who persuaded him to do it?
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I understand WHF is a grade 2 listed building, if i had the power i would have knocked it down.
In my opinion it is quite an ugly building.
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In my opinion it is quite an ugly building.
the extensions yes an eyesore , quite sure the cottages are ok, the house in its early years of completion may well have looked fine .
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Believe me Mertol the Sun was not that moral. You just have to see how they treat other important stories to see that. The Sun was one of those papers that believed Bamber was guilty and it so happened that a story about Bamber "allegedly" trying to sell pictures of his naked sister to them waqs more of a scoop than the pictures themselves. Because (1) It presents them in a high moral stand and therefore a very favourable light in the eyes of the public. and (2) I drags up dirt on Bamber who they said was guilty anyway.
Don't forget my friend's encounter with the editor of the Sun in a party where he was "celebrating" with police on the successful conviction of Bamber and said to my friend, "Of course we know the little shit didn't do it". So the Sun was very biased against Bamber to start with. In the light of that I cannot think as to why Bamber would try and sell them pictures of his sister? Unless of course it was a setup designed to trip up a naive young man? Might be a good move to question the man who persuaded him to do it?
The press want us to believe what they print , when newspapers are free of cost to the public i might start believing .
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The press want us to believe what they print , when newspapers are free of cost to the public i might start believing .
Then they'll want you to believe what their advertisers think..;)
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Then they'll want you to believe what their advertisers think..;)
Their advertisers are brutal money grabbing butchers with a ruthless mind of a Cyberman.
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Erm, no Lookut i dont read the sun, actually.
Well,Andrea,,it was the Sun newspaper that Jeremy allegedly approached,for the purchase of the said photos,so my guess is that you had a little sneak preview to see if they'd been printed.
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No, why would i be ineterested, i was 15 at the time.
Lookout, how do you think sheila got upstairs without getting blood down her front?
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The press want us to believe what they print , when newspapers are free of cost to the public i might start believing .
I believe it was Brett Collins who tried to broker the deal,which for those who read the alleged events following the murders would not surprise those of us who believe Jeremy Bamber to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt one bit..
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No, why would i be ineterested, i was 15 at the time.
Lookout, how do you think sheila got upstairs without getting blood down her front?
I remember the case well,,and knew/realised from day one that Jeremy would get the blame. It's easy when he's the only one left.!!!
Sheilas' outdoor clothing,which she removed,,would have stemmed the flow of blood. It was eventually found soaking in a couple of buckets. But surprise surprise,was never investigated.
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But there doesnt appear to be any on her skin, does there? Flowing downwards as if she had been stood up.
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Knowing the press they would have a dictating machine with them , a copy of what was discussed that i would like to hear.
They realised it was a bigger story, bamber trying to flog the pictures, than the pictures themselves. Classic Fleet street roll over story.
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I remember the case well,,and knew/realised from day one that Jeremy would get the blame. It's easy when he's the only one left.!!!
Sheilas' outdoor clothing,which she removed,,would have stemmed the flow of blood. It was eventually found soaking in a couple of buckets. But surprise surprise,was never investigated.
There were two pairs of knickers and a pair of joggers in the buckets, no top.
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And why would sheila change her clothes if she intended to kill herself.
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There were two pairs of knickers and a pair of joggers in the buckets, no top.
Joggers would have been more absorbant than a flimsy top. So joggers it was.
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Joggers would have been more absorbant than a flimsy top. So joggers it was.
So where is the blood that would have streamed down from her neck? Or are you saying she was wearing the joggers as a scarf?
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Lookout after the 1st shot what do you think sheila did?
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Hi lookout we don't know and we will never know if any bloodstained clothing was removed from the scene and disposed of and don't forget it was 4 murders and one suicide to start with.
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And why would sheila change her clothes if she intended to kill herself.
These were outdoor clothes which Sheila had changed to her night clothes. It matters not what clothes you wear if you're out to kill someone. I'm sure that clothes wouldn't have been an issue,except for something to mop up excessive blood.
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What do you think she did after the first shot to herself?
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Hi lookout can you remember the story Patti posted up a sad story about her Aunt that committed suicide. She did all the normal daily chores changed into her Sunday best and took her own life. A very sad story which I think was great of Patti to share it with us.
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So where is the blood that would have streamed down from her neck? Or are you saying she was wearing the joggers as a scarf?
No,,Sheila wouldn't have been wearing her joggers as a scarf. They'd have been to hand,wherever she removed them.
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so after the joggers had been put into the bucket downstairs, she still had to get upstairs without getting blood down her front.
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so after the joggers had been put into the bucket downstairs, she still had to get upstairs without getting blood down her front.
Well by the time Sheila got to where she lay,with her hand held onto her neck ( there was blood on her right hand,which when released,would have gone all over one of the rugs that was burned by the police ),,there was then further blood to where she finally lay.
And don't think for one minute that Jeremy " told " the police to burn the rugs/carpets,because he didn't.!
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I disagree, had she been holding her wound before the 2nd shot the blood would have been on the front of her nightie, after releasing her hand. No blood was found on her hands either.
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I disagree, had she been holding her wound before the 2nd shot the blood would have been on the front of her nightie, after releasing her hand. No blood was found on her hands either.
Just so Andrea. Anything to circumvent the subject,speaking of which,where was the grief and where is the remorse?
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She didnt swan off on holliday either did she? C'mon Grahame, Bambers behaviour after his family were killed did not do him any favours. Like i say we all grieve differently, but most of us lose our loved ones to accident or illness. Its very different when five of them are murdered.
Andrea an event of such magnitude is hard to imagine for most of us. The brain can behave in many ways due to shock and trauma and is capable of just closing down on such dreadful trauma because its too much to deal with. If you have ever experienced s trauma you will remember how you only noticed and dealt with the trivial and nothing else registered. This can last for various lengths of time depending on the nature of the trauma and the person involved. Jereny could have been in a state of denial for a long time. No one has the riggt to judge how anyone else copes with such overwhelming grief. So if he was innocent such behaviour should not be judged. Surely if he was guilty he would have played the expected acceptable role. Its one of the reasons that reinforce ny belief in his innocence. imo
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Well imo, having just lost 5 members of my family, brutally, i would have been devastated. I couldnt have eaten anything that day either, Colin did say that Jeremy seemed to copying Colin and observing to see how he was reacting.
Bamber was too quick to deal with the financial issues too, getting some items valued ready to be flogged off. trying to sell sheilas pictures. It goes on and on....
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Making sexual remarks to julie on the day of the funerals, slapping the waitresses arses. brett suggesting that he wear talc to make him self appear more upset, that shouldnt have been necessary. setting the video recorder to tape the funerals hoping the shots got his best side.
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Right, off to work. bye.
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Andrea an event of such magnitude is hard to imagine for most of us. The brain can behave in many ways due to shock and trauma and is capable of just closing down on such dreadful trauma because its too much to deal with. If you have ever experienced s trauma you will remember how you only noticed and dealt with the trivial and nothing else registered. This can last for various lengths of time depending on the nature of the trauma and the person involved. Jereny could have been in a state of denial for a long time. No one has the riggt to judge how anyone else copes with such overwhelming grief. So if he was innocent such behaviour should not be judged. Surely if he was guilty he would have played the expected acceptable role. Its one of the reasons that reinforce ny belief in his innocence. imo
The point was having never suffered from grief Jeremy was clueless how to act. Didn't Colin Caffell remark that he suspected that Jeremy was trying to imitate him?
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I disagree, had she been holding her wound before the 2nd shot the blood would have been on the front of her nightie, after releasing her hand. No blood was found on her hands either.
Blood was found on Sheilas' right hand,,and contrary to which newspaper/thread you read,,it was also underneath her feet after the bags were removed in the mortuary.
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Just read Andrea's posts #50 and #51. Stated simply and matter-of -factly yet with such a devastating effect.
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Making sexual remarks to julie on the day of the funerals, slapping the waitresses arses. brett suggesting that he wear talc to make him self appear more upset, that shouldnt have been necessary. setting the video recorder to tape the funerals hoping the shots got his best side.
How about Julies' penchant for " sleeping with a mass murderer " then,,if you believe that Jeremy did it.?
Do you think she'd have found that exciting.? Ohhhh,I don't think for one minute if she'd known he'd slaughtered his family,,that she'd have continued to sleep with him,do you.?
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How about Julies' penchant for " sleeping with a mass murderer " then,,if you believe that Jeremy did it.?
Do you think she'd have found that exciting.? Ohhhh,I don't think for one minute if she'd known he'd slaughtered his family,,that she'd have continued to sleep with him,do you.?
Funny how people take offence when this term is used, but only when it suits. :P
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Well imo, having just lost 5 members of my family, brutally, i would have been devastated. I couldnt have eaten anything that day either, Colin did say that Jeremy seemed to copying Colin and observing to see how he was reacting.
Bamber was too quick to deal with the financial issues too, getting some items valued ready to be flogged off. trying to sell sheilas pictures. It goes on and on....
Andrea, with respect, you cannot possibly know how you would behave in a situation like that.
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Making sexual remarks to julie on the day of the funerals, slapping the waitresses arses. brett suggesting that he wear talc to make him self appear more upset, that shouldnt have been necessary. setting the video recorder to tape the funerals hoping the shots got his best side.
Nothing should have been 'necessary' that doesn't prove anything and anyway where did you get this information?
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The point was having never suffered from grief Jeremy was clueless how to act. Didn't Colin Caffell remark that he suspected that Jeremy was trying to imitate him?
How do you know he had never suffered from grief. He and his girlfriend had experienced miscarriages. Your'e just making assumptions and quoting someone elses opinion.
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In my opinion it is quite an ugly building.
Subjective I suppose, personally I think it's quite a fine building, despite its history.
the extensions yes an eyesore , quite sure the cottages are ok, the house in its early years of completion may well have looked fine .
Again I think the beauty may well be in the eye of the beholder, yes the building is listed, the parts which you refer to as extensions is actually the original 18th Century farmhouse, the formal front is the extension.
The building was actually only listed in February 1987, the National Heritage listing reads as follows:
TOLLESHUNT D'ARCY PAGES LANE TL 91 SW(west side) 3/78White House Farmhouse GVII
TOLLESHUNT D'ARCY PAGES LANE TL 91 SW (west side) 3/78 White House Farmhouse GV II House. Late C18 and early C19. Red and gault brick in Flemish bond, roofed with slate. C18 range of red brick aligned N-S with 2 axial stacks. Early C19 crosswing of gault brick at S end, forming entrance front, with internal stacks at each side. C19 single-storey extension at N end. 2 storeys. Ground floor, 2 early C19 sashes of 16 lights, first floor, 2 similar sashes and one of 12 lights, all with flat brick arches. Central C20 half-glazed door in simple flat-roofed porch with 2 columns and 3 stone steps. Low-pitched hipped roof. Reported to have date 1820 inscribed on beam in roof. White House is shown on Chapman and Andre's map of 1777, then on another site approx. 400 metres to the west. Both were built by a charity established in 1626 by Henry Smith, salter and alderman of London, to which the farm still belongs at the time of survey, May 1985 (P. Morant, The History and Antiquities of Essex, 1768, I, 399).
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Well imo, having just lost 5 members of my family, brutally, i would have been devastated. I couldnt have eaten anything that day either, Colin did say that Jeremy seemed to copying Colin and observing to see how he was reacting.
Bamber was too quick to deal with the financial issues too, getting some items valued ready to be flogged off. trying to sell sheilas pictures. It goes on and on....
Andrea, with respect, you cannot possibly know how you would behave in a situation like that.
However, Andi is almost certainly the most qualified to give her opinion regarding how she may or may not act in any given situation, is she not?
Of course that is on the assumption IMO stands for "In my opinion" and not "Impossibly massive ostriches". :-\
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They realised it was a bigger story, bamber trying to flog the pictures, than the pictures themselves. Classic Fleet street roll over story.
Yes that is what I was trying to demonstrate Vic. Also they were the wrong people to try and sell to as they were a Bamber guilty paper.
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However, Andi is almost certainly the most qualified to give her opinion regarding how she may or may not act in any given situation, is she not?
Of course that is on the assumption IMO stands for "In my opinion" and not "Impossibly massive ostriches". :-\
Hartley, I'm saying that NONE of us know how we would react in such a situation. We all assume we would have control over the way we would behave but in reality we don't, if we did post traumatic shock would not cause people to react in all sorts of ways which are totally out of character.
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And why would sheila change her clothes if she intended to kill herself.
I think that is one of the characteristics of suicide victims Andrea? My father inlaw was in the Thames River police and he would often remark that those he pulled out of the river after their suicide would often be imaculately dressed and clean.
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I disagree, had she been holding her wound before the 2nd shot the blood would have been on the front of her nightie, after releasing her hand. No blood was found on her hands either.
I think on her palms there was. Also she could have wiped her hand on her night dress thus leaving the bloodstain there?
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I think on her palms there was. Also she could have wiped her hand on her night dress thus leaving the bloodstain there?
Nope, or at least not according to Vanezis, he also said the blood on her night dress which is incorrectly being described as a hand print, was transferred from Sheilas wrist.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=988.0;attach=12385;image)
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Funny how people take offence when this term is used, but only when it suits. :P
Well it's plain to see that you like the term,Hartley.! Except that I didn't put emphasis on it..
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How do you know he had never suffered from grief. He and his girlfriend had experienced miscarriages. Your'e just making assumptions and quoting someone elses opinion.
I don't think we will get anywhere by critisising Jeremy's actions over the days following the murders and during the funeral. Grief is such a tricky subject to handle and people go through a whole range of feelings, from sorrow to hate. From insanity to indifference. My friend was the manager of the Co-Op funeral service in Broomfield Road in Chelmsford and she was an expert in counselling people through grief. She said there are many contradictory feelings that take over a person's personality. It is impossible to guage what they might do?
So in my humble opinion in "not" being an expert in these matters, I feel that it is very unfair of us to judge someone who has just lost a whole family in such tragic and horific circumstances. And the police questioned Jeremy at his most vulnerable time. On the one hand they were saying that he was not behaving like a grieving person and on the other hand they were questioning him as to why he wasn't answering their questions in an erudite fashion?
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However, Andi is almost certainly the most qualified to give her opinion regarding how she may or may not act in any given situation, is she not?
Of course that is on the assumption IMO stands for "In my opinion" and not "Impossibly massive ostriches". :-\
That was a bit rude Hartley, I'm sure An drea can answer for herself.
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I don't think we will get anywhere by critisising Jeremy's actions over the days following the murders and during the funeral. Grief is such a tricky subject to handle and people go through a whole range of feelings, from sorrow to hate. From insanity to indifference. My friend was the manager of the Co-Op funeral service in Broomfield Road in Chelmsford and she was an expert in counselling people through grief. She said there are many contradictory feelings that take over a person's personality. It is impossible to guage what they might do?
So in my humble opinion in "not" being an expert in these matters, I feel that it is very unfair of us to judge someone who has just lost a whole family in such tragic and horific circumstances. And the police questioned Jeremy at his most vulnerable time. On the one hand they were saying that he was not behaving like a frieving person and on the other hand they were questioning him as to why he wasn't answering their questions in an erudite fashion?
Thank you Grahame, well put. ;D
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Hartley, I'm saying that NONE of us know how we would react in such a situation. We all assume we would have control over the way we would behave but in reality we don't, if we did post traumatic shock would not cause people to react in all sorts of ways which are totally out of character.
I agree, but people can give their opinion (particularly if it is labelled as such), just as you have yourself on other subjects.
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That was a bit rude Hartley, I'm sure An drea can answer for herself.
It wasn't intended to be rude, I apologise if you took it as such. :-\
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They listened, but didnt buy the photos.
Of course they did'nt buy them - who would be interested in buying a paper to see nude photos of someone who was murdered ? They probably were more interested in getting a story from JB....
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Nope, or at least not according to Vanezis, he also said the blood on her night dress which is incorrectly being described as a hand print, was transferred from Sheilas wrist.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=988.0;attach=12385;image)
That was his opinion. But it certainly looks like a hand print to me from the pictures. I disagree with him for the simple reason that the blood had obviously been staunched by a hand as there are fingermarks on her neck.
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I agree, but people can give their opinion (particularly if it is labelled as such), just as you have yourself on other subjects.
People can give any they opinion they want about anything but this is a hypothetical argument there is no answer. IMO
That's ok Hartley, must have misunderstood you. ;)
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People can give any they opinion they want about anything but this is a hypothetical argument there is no answer. IMO
That's ok Hartley, must have misunderstood you. ;)
No worries, probably just my poor attempt at humour. :-[
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That was his opinion. But it certainly looks like a hand print to me from the pictures. I disagree with him for the simple reason that the blood had obviously been staunched by a hand as there are fingermarks on her neck.
I don't think that his description "the palms and fingers were not contaminated with blood", could be referred to simply as an opinion, unless there is photographic evidence indicating otherwise, then I think it would be quite difficult to argue against the description given by Vanezis.
That's an interesting point regarding finger marks to Sheilas throat though, particularly given Vanezis's assertion that Sheilas fingers were not blood stained and that Dr Craig said he certified death without touching her body and no police officer claims to have touched her neck prior to it being photographed.
So if they are indeed finger marks to Sheilas throat, who do they belong to?
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Subjective I suppose, personally I think it's quite a fine building, despite its history.
Again I think the beauty may well be in the eye of the beholder, yes the building is listed, the parts which you refer to as extensions is actually the original 18th Century farmhouse, the formal front is the extension.
i could not really care less what part is the 1st part , it should have been flattened.
The building was actually only listed in February 1987, the National Heritage listing reads as follows:
TOLLESHUNT D'ARCY PAGES LANE TL 91 SW(west side) 3/78White House Farmhouse GVII
TOLLESHUNT D'ARCY PAGES LANE TL 91 SW (west side) 3/78 White House Farmhouse GV II House. Late C18 and early C19. Red and gault brick in Flemish bond, roofed with slate. C18 range of red brick aligned N-S with 2 axial stacks. Early C19 crosswing of gault brick at S end, forming entrance front, with internal stacks at each side. C19 single-storey extension at N end. 2 storeys. Ground floor, 2 early C19 sashes of 16 lights, first floor, 2 similar sashes and one of 12 lights, all with flat brick arches. Central C20 half-glazed door in simple flat-roofed porch with 2 columns and 3 stone steps. Low-pitched hipped roof. Reported to have date 1820 inscribed on beam in roof. White House is shown on Chapman and Andre's map of 1777, then on another site approx. 400 metres to the west. Both were built by a charity established in 1626 by Henry Smith, salter and alderman of London, to which the farm still belongs at the time of survey, May 1985 (P. Morant, The History and Antiquities of Essex, 1768, I, 399).
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Of course they did'nt buy them - who would be interested in buying a paper to see nude photos of someone who was murdered ? They probably were more interested in getting a story from JB....
The pictures or the story does it matter , vultures in for a penny in for a pound the lot of them.
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mr jam i will give you just one personal example of grief, once a little girl came up to me on a funeral i was standing next to one of the 7 seater funeral cars she said ive lost my daddy will you be my new daddy now, just one example.
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Of course that is on the assumption IMO stands for "In my opinion" and not "Impossibly massive ostriches". :-\
It certainly doesn't stand for "Impeccable magnificent oration"
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mr jam i will give you just one personal example of grief, once a little girl came up to me on a funeral i was standing next to one of the 7 seater funeral cars she said ive lost my daddy will you be my new daddy now, just one example.
Mertol, I'm not sure whether I should be confused or offended. ???
With all due respect, you do not have the monopoly on witnessing, feeling or understanding grief, I find your example quite presumptuous and patronising.
You may feel that your life experiences have given you some sort of an insight into such matters, I'm certainly not in a position nor of a mind to disagree with you, but I think you should be wary of making assumptions about other people.
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It certainly doesn't stand for "Impeccable magnificent oration"
That's quite funny, but not for the reason intended. ;D
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That's quite funny, but not for the reason intended. ;D
Please excuse my sarcasm, Mr Jam. I'll try "Irrisistably magnetic opposites." I can think of many more, all too risque for the forum!!!
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Please excuse my sarcasm, Mr Jam. I'll try "Irrisistably magnetic opposites." I can think of many more, all too risque for the forum!!!
I concede, you get the match point. :'(
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Mertol, I'm not sure whether I should be confused or offended. ???
With all due respect, you do not have the monopoly on witnessing, feeling or understanding grief, I find your example quite presumptuous and patronising.
You may feel that your life experiences have given you some sort of an insight into such matters, I'm certainly not in a position nor of a mind to disagree with you, but I think you should be wary of making assumptions about other people.
and i cant stand your pompous mr right all the time so that makes us equal.
ive seen more grief than you ever will , i hold no trophy as you think i do , like every single post ever started you always ruin and find fault, given you change your username more than once you are not who you say you are are you.
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and i cant stand your pompous mr right all the time so that makes us equal.
Please cut out the insults, they only end up reflecting badly upon yourself.
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I don't think that his description "the palms and fingers were not contaminated with blood", could be referred to simply as an opinion, unless there is photographic evidence indicating otherwise, then I think it would be quite difficult to argue against the description given by Vanezis.
That's an interesting point regarding finger marks to Sheilas throat though, particularly given Vanezis's assertion that Sheilas fingers were not blood stained and that Dr Craig said he certified death without touching her body and no police officer claims to have touched her neck prior to it being photographed.
So if they are indeed finger marks to Sheilas throat, who do they belong to?
That's a good question. But I rather feel that we look at these "experts" as if they are infallible at times? Whatever side we may belong to. For when the defence employ experts they are quickly didmissed by the ccrc experts. So in the light of that I think we also have a right to challenge their views?
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That's a good question. But I rather feel that we look at these "experts" as if they are infallible at times? Whatever side we may belong to. For when the defence employ experts they are quickly didmissed by the ccrc experts. So in the light of that I think we also have a right to challenge their views?
The ccrc are no use to anyone grahame mass waste of money what ever happened to common sense and logic.
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The ccrc are no use to anyone grahame mass waste of money what ever happened to common sense and logic.
That may be so Mertol? But it still doesn't prevent some from using their opinion to back up their own views on the guilt of Bamber.
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I concede, you get the match point. :'(
WOW!!!!! Can I have that in writing, please? OOOOOOOPS!!! I have it, haven't I!!!
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That's a good question. But I rather feel that we look at these "experts" as if they are infallible at times? Whatever side we may belong to. For when the defence employ experts they are quickly didmissed by the ccrc experts. So in the light of that I think we also have a right to challenge their views?
Yes I agree, and they are being challenged, the CCRC doesn't, or rather shouldn't simply dismiss things without reason, they should provide an explanation as to why something was dismissed, we just don't get to see the explanations that they give unless the defence choose to publish them.
I'm guessing at least in part, this is what the application for a Judicial Review is all about.
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WOW!!!!! Can I have that in writing, please? OOOOOOOPS!!! I have it, haven't I!!!
You do. Quick do a print screen before I delete it. :D
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That may be so Mertol? But it still doesn't prevent some from using their opinion to back up their own views on the guilt of Bamber.
Because thats all thery have other than the courts of appeal after that jack diddly nowt.
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Because thats all thery have other than the courts of appeal after that jack diddly nowt.
Love that Mertol...'jack diddly nowt'...I'll have to remember that. ;D
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Love that Mertol...'jack diddly nowt'...I'll have to remember that. ;D
Yo Maggie. Think of it as a gift from the folk of North Lincolnshire, always there to offer a helping hand.
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You'll always have the " watchers ".Particularly members of the family who will scrutinise your reactions at the passing of a relative,close or otherwise. Waiting their chance to point a finger in readiness for the gossip-mongers to have a field day.
" It's all put on,,it's false ",, you'll hear them say,,when describing a family member at a funeral.
What was expected of Jeremy.? Was he supposed to have collapsed in a heap,blubbering.?
Getting over the initial shock of the deaths,,and the way in which they died,was in itself, the most tragic of circumstances,and that alone would leave you numb and void of any other thoughts other than why.
Nobody should have to feel obliged to shed tears just because it's a funeral. Jeremy probably didn't feel like crying at that time,,so why and what had his emotions got to do with anyone,,least of all the case itself.?
I'd say there was something radically wrong with anyone who can " turn the tears on " at will. I'd be far more suspicious of them.! I don't do crocodile tears,,they belong to con-men.
Hi Lookout. Jeremy could not do right from wrong could he. If he had wept he was acting, if he had been sombre, he would have being acting and if he had just stood there he would have been acting....
I feel people made the crime fit... :) :) :)
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WOW!!!!! Can I have that in writing, please? OOOOOOOPS!!! I have it, haven't I!!!
Hang on I am just picking my self up from the floor....WOW! lol Well done april.... ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Lookout. Jeremy could not do right from wrong could he. If he had wept he was acting, if he had been sombre, he would have being acting and if he had just stood there he would have been acting....
I feel people made the crime fit... :) :) :)
Oh it was fitted alright Patti. I've never come across such a bunch of shysters ( second only to politicians )
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Hang on I am just picking my self up from the floor....WOW! lol Well done april.... ;D ;D ;D
Would you like a hand up? :)
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Would you like a hand up? :)
Im in a silly mood tonight harts, and that sounded rude!! ::)
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Im in a silly mood tonight harts, and that sounded rude!! ::)
I'm officially blushing. :-[
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Sorry, im being silly. I have had one of those days.
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Sorry, im being silly. I have had one of those days.
must be the heat Leeds must have been warmer.
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The ccrc are no use to anyone grahame mass waste of money what ever happened to common sense and logic.
Before the CCRC bamber would have even less chance of getting out. Before the ccrc they would have long since thrown away the key.
Your views on grief and your claims to be an expert on the subject are crass, highly subjective and insulting.
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Before the CCRC bamber would have even less chance of getting out. Before the ccrc they would have long since thrown away the key.
Your views on grief and your claims to be an expert on the subject are crass, highly subjective and insulting.
i am not an expert i have seen more death than you will never know do people a favour and leave pal you contribute nothing.
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i am not an expert i have seen more death than you will never know do people a favour and leave pal you contribute nothing.
Hold on Mertol! Most of the deaths you have seen are natural. I would hate to see Vic leave.
Maybe I do not agree with all he says, but he a good poster, as is Harters. His opinion is as welcomed as any. He does post facts as he sees them. I am aware he is close to the family, but do not find this a handicap, in fact I find it helpful. Yes I do think that he may be blinkered, but still think that he contributes a great deal to the debate, as does Steve. I am a fence sitter, and want someone to shove me one way or the other.
The fact that some disagree with me does not bother me. I just want the truth, whatever it is.
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i am not an expert i have seen more death than you will never know do people a favour and leave pal you contribute nothing.
With all of that time spent with the dead, maybe you've fallen behind in being able to interact with the living?
I'm not Buddys biggest fan and vice versa, but I very much agree with his post above.
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Hold on Mertol! Most of the deaths you have seen are natural. I would hate to see Vic leave.
Maybe I do not agree with all he says, but he a good poster, as is Harters. His opinion is as welcomed as any. He does post facts as he sees them. I am aware he is close to the family, but do not find this a handicap, in fact I find it helpful. Yes I do think that he may be blinkered, but still think that he contributes a great deal to the debate, as does Steve. I am a fence sitter, and want someone to shove me one way or the other.
The fact that some disagree with me does not bother me. I just want the truth, whatever it is.
whatever his tie with the relatives is no concern of mine, for the most part he does not post as often, he must have known the relatives are going to be debated about and often not in a positive way, if he takes issue with that dont get involved, the thread was started in good faith and once again ended sour,i have actually offered help to a forum member in the early days and currently helping a friend with grief, neither were there that night they both know nothing like me and everyone else on the forum, thats why we are here to discuss it .
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With all of that time spent with the dead, maybe you've fallen behind in being able to interact with the living?
I'm not Buddys biggest fan and vice versa, but I very much agree with his post above.
Not the blinkered bit though, obviously. :P
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With all of that time spent with the dead, maybe you've fallen behind in being able to interact with the living?
I'm not Buddys biggest fan and vice versa, but I very much agree with his post above.
people who die mr jam still belong to someone i apologise for my remarks earlier today.
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people who die mr jam still belong to someone i apologise for my remarks earlier today.
Thank you, apology accepted.
Whatever you have seen or witnessed, bear in mind that there is always somebody who has seen, witnessed or endured worse, please bear that in mind when addressing people on the forum, particularly when you don't know them, as you may well offend them.
You do not have the monopoly on grief and heartache.
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Is it fair for posters to say jb was faking grief on the funerals ? grief is a emotion a human one you could not be human without.
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Is it fair for posters to say jb was faking grief on the funerals ? grief is a emotion a human one you could not be human without.
It's fair for people to have an opinion, yes, don't take it so personally, you do not have to agree with them.
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Mertol I am sure that you are a nice person, and have honest intentions. I would hate to scare away [if that is the right phrase] someone who has a different opinion to mine
Vic has been an up front poster albeit a tad biased, but thats fine by me. ;D
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I think most of us are biased to whatever side of the fence we sit, Buddy.
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I think most of us are biased to whatever side of the fence we sit, Buddy.
You are probably right Andy
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I have been either side of the fence and on it!
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I have been either side of the fence and on it!
Steady girl that can be painful ;D
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hoho, i know ;)
But im content on the side im on now. :)
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i am not an expert i have seen more death than you will never know do people a favour and leave pal you contribute nothing.
Mertol, I'm sure you have friends. If you heard people in a pub talking about your friends in a bad way, would you not correct them?
That is what I try to do on this forum. There are things I don't know, of course, but when I read what I consider to be untruths, I will defend them.
And whether you believe bamber guilty or not, there is an awful lot of untruths spoken on this forum.
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Morning Vic :)
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Morning Andy. Yorkshire down to 11th in the medal table!
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Even after the gold today! ah well, im still proud of us. :)
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Hold on Mertol! Most of the deaths you have seen are natural. I would hate to see Vic leave.
Maybe I do not agree with all he says, but he a good poster, as is Harters. His opinion is as welcomed as any. He does post facts as he sees them. I am aware he is close to the family, but do not find this a handicap, in fact I find it helpful. Yes I do think that he may be blinkered, but still think that he contributes a great deal to the debate, as does Steve. I am a fence sitter, and want someone to shove me one way or the other.
The fact that some disagree with me does not bother me. I just want the truth, whatever it is.
Thanks buddy. Would be a very boring forum if we all agreed with each other!
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Mertol, I'm sure you have friends. If you heard people in a pub talking about your friends in a bad way, would you not correct them?
That is what I try to do on this forum. There are things I don't know, of course, but when I read what I consider to be untruths, I will defend them.
And whether you believe bamber guilty or not, there is an awful lot of untruths spoken on this forum.
I have found Vic to be a very honest and sincere man and very pleasant to talk with.
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Even after the gold today! ah well, im still proud of us. :)
They put it up at the end of the highlights show tonight. Bloody funny though. You're only 1 behind Australia!
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I have found Vic to be a very honest and sincere man and very pleasant to talk with.
Cheers Grahame. Likewise. JOKE - Except when you talk bollocks! - JOKE
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Thats because we're brilliant, Vic ;)
I have a gold post box near me! and the girl who won the boxing lives in the part of Leeds i was born in :D
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Thats because we're brilliant, Vic ;)
I have a gold post box near me! and the girl who won the boxing lives in the part of Leeds i was born in :D
I once worked temporarily at the secondary school Jessica Ennis attended, albeit she had already left!
There was a queue of about 20 people in town today queuing to get their photo taken next to her golden postbox!
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Did you get a picture, Petey?
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Did you get a picture, Petey?
I'll get a picture next week when there are no queues!
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Mertol, I'm sure you have friends. If you heard people in a pub talking about your friends in a bad way, would you not correct them?
That is what I try to do on this forum. There are things I don't know, of course, but when I read what I consider to be untruths, I will defend them.
And whether you believe bamber guilty or not, there is an awful lot of untruths spoken on this forum.
As with the jam i offer you my apology if i said things i should not have,what i can say is i can only assume yourself and other members seem to have faith in our society and its legal system,i can even for the moment forget jeremy bamber and think how many people are in jail who should not be, no system is perfect and ours is among that, until every last remaining document is released about the WHF case my disdain for this nation will carry on, we have had 2 world wars to take freedom there can be a 3rd but unlikely a 4th, jeremy bamber is also a victim of a unfree society thats why he getting nowhere.
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Cheers Grahame. Likewise. JOKE - Except when you talk bollocks! - JOKE
I only do that to annoy certain people. ;)
I used to find Andrea white pleasant to talk to on the phone as well. I miss those talks since she's fell in love with Lambo's forum.
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As with the jam i offer you my apology if i said things i should not have,what i can say is i can only assume yourself and other members seem to have faith in our society and its legal system,i can even for the moment forget jeremy bamber and think how many people are in jail who should not be, no system is perfect and ours is among that, until every last remaining document is released about the WHF case my disdain for this nation will carry on, we have had 2 world wars to take freedom there can be a 3rd but unlikely a 4th, jeremy bamber is also a victim of a unfree society thats why he getting nowhere.
I agree with you there Mertol. A recent case has made me even more thoroughly disgusted with our justice system. It involved a very well-respected surgeon who was a neighbour of my brother,,,,who tried to chase off 3 youths from messing about outside his property and car which was parked.
The man would have got the usual volley of abuse,so the surgeon lifted his hand as a threat.One of the youths punched the man in the face and he fell,cracking his skull on the pavement,,and sustained such injuries that he died.
The CPS dropped the case.! Because the youth said he punched him in self-defence.!
The doctor was semi-retired and was said to have been a pillar of the community. I'm disgusted.
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I agree with you there Mertol. A recent case has made me even more thoroughly disgusted with our justice system. It involved a very well-respected surgeon who was a neighbour of my brother,,,,who tried to chase off 3 youths from messing about outside his property and car which was parked.
The man would have got the usual volley of abuse,so the surgeon lifted his hand as a threat.One of the youths punched the man in the face and he fell,cracking his skull on the pavement,,and sustained such injuries that he died.
The CPS dropped the case.! Because the youth said he punched him in self-defence.!
The doctor was semi-retired and was said to have been a pillar of the community. I'm disgusted.
They seem to get the most naive and gormless people devoid of even one iota of common sense to run the CPS. No wonder the country is in the state it is. To take the word of a thug over the manslaughter of a retired citizen is one of the most disgusting things I have read about. Can you see why I take the piss out of the law so much. I am driven by the utter contempt of these brainless idiots. The all seem to live in cloud cuckoo land. I'm a rebel and always will be. How the people of this land confuse the word law with justice is always a wonder to me?
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They seem to get the most naive and gormless people devoid of even one iota of common sense to run the CPS. No wonder the country is in the state it is. To take the word of a thug over the manslaughter of a retired citizen is one of the most disgusting things I have read about. Can you see why I take the piss out of the law so much. I am driven by the utter contempt of these brainless idiots. The all seem to live in cloud cuckoo land. I'm a rebel and always will be. How the people of this land confuse the word law with justice is always a wonder to me?
Employing a brain dead zombie is quite easy look at G4s instant answer, jeremy was chosen as a candidate to recieve this inept useless reason of justice, so i can understand more clearly why he has not given up, they must have thought he would years ago, i bet it bothers them and i hope it does there is not the prison space to jail his supporters for justice , floating prisons may be needed.
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Employing a brain dead zombie is quite easy look at G4s instant answer, jeremy was chosen as a candidate to recieve this inept useless reason of justice, so i can understand more clearly why he has not given up, they must have thought he would years ago, i bet it bothers them and i hope it does there is not the prison space to jail his supporters for justice , floating prisons may be needed.
Well said Mertol, I have the sea in my blood, where should we start?
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Hi ngb1066
Forgive me for bringing my grievance with regard to Mat onto the open forum but my integrity and honesty are being brought into question and many of the forum members I like and respect may start to have little doubts as to I am.Briefly what happened last night was Margot posted a post which was disgusting and crude implicating her myself and Mat. I sent Mat a pm telling him I was going to report the incident when a Mod was on the forum as I felt partially responsible for Mat being dragged into it as I had befriended Margot at the beginning but did raise my concerns about her to your goodself and Roch.The reply I got from Mat was words to the effect "no worries Jackie" I was in shock and thought he was joking. After pm's backwards and forwards he explained that a Mod he was very close to told him I was Jackie Preece but not to worry as my secret was safe with him as he did not want me banned but anyway the other two Mods know you are Jackie anyway. It is my opinion that any man who is willing to disclose information from a female in a private message is an out and out cad with no integrity or moral values at all it is just not done. As far as I am concerned Mat is just a nonentity and I want nothing from him but I do want my friends on the forum to know I am not a fake. It is of no consequence to me what he or the other forum think I am as they play no part in my life.
The only steps I can take to dispel these ridiculous rumours is to give you ngb my email address or failing that my home address as I do trust you implicitly and that will confirm to you that I am not Jackie Preece.
Failing that I would have to delete my account as I am not comfortable with members wondering who they are posting to.
I do apologise for bringing this onto the open form as I have no need for a pm as I have nothing at all to hide and if only people knew.
Thank you for taking time to read this post.
Regards
Susan Ingham
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Hi ngb1066
Forgive me for bringing my grievance with regard to Mat onto the open forum but my integrity and honesty are being brought into question and many of the forum members I like and respect may start to have little doubts as to I am.Briefly what happened last night was Margot posted a post which was disgusting and crude implicating her myself and Mat. I sent Mat a pm telling him I was going to report the incident when a Mod was on the forum as I felt partially responsible for Mat being dragged into it as I had befriended Margot at the beginning but did raise my concerns about her to your goodself and Roch.The reply I got from Mat was words to the effect "no worries Jackie" I was in shock and thought he was joking. After pm's backwards and forwards he explained that a Mod he was very close to told him I was Jackie Preece but not to worry as my secret was safe with him as he did not want me banned but anyway the other two Mods know you are Jackie anyway. It is my opinion that any man who is willing to disclose information from a female in a private message is an out and out cad with no integrity or moral values at all it is just not done. As far as I am concerned Mat is just a nonentity and I want nothing from him but I do want my friends on the forum to know I am not a fake. It is of no consequence to me what he or the other forum think I am as they play no part in my life.
The only steps I can take to dispel these ridiculous rumours is to give you ngb my email address or failing that my home address as I do trust you implicitly and that will confirm to you that I am not Jackie Preece.
Failing that I would have to delete my account as I am not comfortable with members wondering who they are posting to.
I do apologise for bringing this onto the open form as I have no need for a pm as I have nothing at all to hide and if only people knew.
Thank you for taking time to read this post.
Regards
Susan Ingham
Maybe a PM would have been better?
To be fair, this isn't a new issue and you've played at least a small part in it yourself. Having had very little or no interaction with you on the forum, about three months ago you out of the blue, started sending me PM's asking if I thought you were Jackie, you may recall that I replied that I neither knew or cared, that reply remains current today.
Whatever Mats misdemeanours are, I think it's difficult for a complaint about people accusing you of being somebody else, to be taken too seriously when you bear in mind that you have in the past posted things such as:
Jackie have you noticed everytime you post up pops Susan with a reply agreeing with you within 30seconds how strange is that and other people have noticed this not just silly me.
I'm not sure you can play along one minute and then complain about it the next, well that's not true, clearly that's exactly what you are doing.
If you find all of this ridiculously petty and tiresome, then I don't think you are alone. ::)
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I don't think the purpose of Susan's post is to complain, rather to dispell the rumours that she's Jackie, which as far as I'm concerned she isn't. This shouldn' be necessary.
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Bridget Thank you so much for that I am not complaining I just want it to stop about me being Jackie Preece. In the beginning I tried to treat it as a joke but some of us are not as thick skinned as others. I really just want my associates on the forum to know I am not a fake. I appreciate your understanding Bridget of the situation.
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Susan - Thank you for your message. I accept that you have been truthful and it is unfortunate that you have been challenged in this way. I hope all members will now let this matter drop.
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Obviously it didn't. :P
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Obviously it didn't. :P
No it did not.
>:(
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No it did not.
>:(
Sorry. :-[
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Someone that wasn't very truthful was Judge Arlidge,,Jeremys' prosecutor.
He's left his wife for a 25 year old. Wonderful life,,isn't it.? Do as I say,not as I do,must be his motto.
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Sorry. :-[
You are forgiven. ;)
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Someone that wasn't very truthful was Judge Arlidge,,Jeremys' prosecutor.
He's left his wife for a 25 year old. Wonderful life,,isn't it.? Do as I say,not as I do,must be his motto.
Yeah I read that the other day, he's in his 70's isn't he? I'm not sure I'd have the energy. :-\
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Yeah I read that the other day, he's in his 70's isn't he? I'm not sure I'd have the energy. :-\
I hope he gets persecuted by his wife. Let's then see all his dirty washing. Karma to him.!
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I hope he gets persecuted by his wife. Let's then see all his dirty washing. Karma to him.!
His partner is a judge, she may or may not get involved in doing the laundry herself. ;) I think he's still married to somebody else, just been separated for 30 odd years without divorcing.
It does sound like he knows what he wants though. :P
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Mr Jam, may I respectfully point out that I believe the majority of my posts have followed something another person has posted because I feel it important to give support to those with whom I agree and the last time I looked, there was no "I" in team. There are those here with whom I am naturally more inclined to agree, to the point that I've thought "Damn, I was just about to say that" and that is exactly what I've said in my post.
In all walks of life there are those to be found who have little or nothing to contribute but make their presence felt by insulting, provocative and disruptive behaviour within which ever group they join. How much tolerance would be shown to these types were they members of other groups or societies.
I would like to finish by saying that I think for 99% of the time the Mods do an excellent job under often difficult circumstances and if you're wondering about the other 1%, when I can present myself as perfect, I'll expect it of others.
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You can respectfully do what you like, I have no idea what you're talking about though? ???
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His partner is a judge, she may or may not get involved in doing the laundry herself. ;) I think he's still married to somebody else, just been separated for 30 odd years without divorcing.
It does sound like he knows what he wants though. :P
How dare he sit and judge others. He was probably jealous of Jeremy at the time.
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How dare he sit and judge others. He was probably jealous of Jeremy at the time.
Was he? Why do you say that?
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Hello april Yes I agree the Mods do an excellent job in very difficult circumstances. In life some people are not able to cope with abuse as well as others so what they do they become frivolous putting on an act so as to appear they are not affected by it but they are. Then in the end you have heard the saying "even a worm will turn" enough is enough as it can become a form of mental bullying. Hope you are enjoying the sun as am I.
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Hello april Yes I agree the Mods do an excellent job in very difficult circumstances. In life some people are not able to cope with abuse as well as others so what they do they become frivolous putting on an act so as to appear they are not affected by it but they are. Then in the end you have heard the saying "even a worm will turn" enough is enough as it can become a form of mental bullying. Hope you are enjoying the sun as am I.
Hi Susan! I am loving the sun and I'm just about to celebrate the weekend with my first glass of sauvignon blanc! Your very good health!!!
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Was he? Why do you say that?
Because I imagine that if it was 30 years ago,,and Jeremys' trial was nearly 27 years ago,,,about the time when the judges life was going awry,it would seem,,,so dependent on how the judges' days were going in court,it would have reflected on his home life,or vice-versa.
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Because I imagine that if it was 30 years ago,,and Jeremys' trial was nearly 27 years ago,,,about the time when the judges life was going awry,it would seem,,,so dependent on how the judges' days were going in court,it would have reflected on his home life,or vice-versa.
That's a really good point actually, so do you think Jeremy was inadvertently responsible for Aldridge separating from his wife, therefore giving a reason for Aldridge to force through a guilty verdict in October 1986 by any means necessary?
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I agree with you there Mertol. A recent case has made me even more thoroughly disgusted with our justice system. It involved a very well-respected surgeon who was a neighbour of my brother,,,,who tried to chase off 3 youths from messing about outside his property and car which was parked.
The man would have got the usual volley of abuse,so the surgeon lifted his hand as a threat.One of the youths punched the man in the face and he fell,cracking his skull on the pavement,,and sustained such injuries that he died.
The CPS dropped the case.! Because the youth said he punched him in self-defence.!
The doctor was semi-retired and was said to have been a pillar of the community. I'm disgusted.
On the face of it, that sounds ridiculous. However, without hearing the other side of the story it is impossible to judge. The newspapers, particularly the tabloids, frequently tend to print stories such as this, where there is often little or no balance. That's why I gave up reading them. For instance, what constitutes messing about? In most instances I would suggest that the person doing the 'chasing' is the aggressor. In the case you mention here, if the surgeon didn't want to be subjected to the 'usual volley of abuse', why chase after them?
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On the face of it, that sounds ridiculous. However, without hearing the other side of the story it is impossible to judge. The newspapers, particularly the tabloids, frequently tend to print stories such as this, where there is often little or no balance. That's why I gave up reading them. For instance, what constitutes messing about? In most instances I would suggest that the person doing the 'chasing' is the aggressor. In the case you mention here, if the surgeon didn't want to be subjected to the 'usual volley of abuse', why chase after them?
[/quote
The youth was originally charged with manslaughter on the basis that there was a reasonable suspicion he had committed the offence and there were grounds for believing that the continuing investigation would provide further evidence to support the prosecution.
Since then new evidence has been presented including the final pathologist's report which indicates that the injuries to the victim were consistent with the victim suffering one blow to the face.
All the surgeon did was to hold up his hand to the yob.He didn't even touch him.!
It doesn't alter the fact that the youth punched the surgeon in the face though,to cause him to fall backwards on to the ground.
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I know what I saw, Susan. I'm not going to keep bringing it up. Before you got your friends invovled yesterday I already told you via PM i didn't care and that I wasn't going to speak about it. You should have left it at that.
I've forwarded the PM's to NGB where Keira confirms for me that she knew you were Jackie. I will post them here too if I am allowed without getting banned.
Other than that, you can do what you like. I don't care. But I don't know if there was need to bring it up in this topic when I had never posted in here?
:o
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[/quote
The youth was originally charged with manslaughter on the basis that there was a reasonable suspicion he had committed the offence and there were grounds for believing that the continuing investigation would provide further evidence to support the prosecution.
Since then new evidence has been presented including the final pathologist's report which indicates that the injuries to the victim were consistent with the victim suffering one blow to the face.
All the surgeon did was to hold up his hand to the yob.He didn't even touch him.!
It doesn't alter the fact that the youth punched the surgeon in the face though,to cause him to fall backwards on to the ground.
The media and tabloids are makings noises about a possible repetition of last years riots which were apparently triggered by mistakes on the part of the constabulary. I believe that powers that be will avoid this at all costs. It comes down to the death(s) of individual(s) weighed against the cost of a repeat of what happened last year. My late partner always said that politically, people are expendable, generally their value is in their ability to vote and pay taxes!!!!!
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I hope he gets persecuted by his wife. Let's then see all his dirty washing. Karma to him.!
Campion may be able to furnish you with information regarding every professional person connected with JB's case if he is so inclined. He has made an indepth study of everyone. I doubt that he will post it though?
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On the face of it, that sounds ridiculous. However, without hearing the other side of the story it is impossible to judge. The newspapers, particularly the tabloids, frequently tend to print stories such as this, where there is often little or no balance. That's why I gave up reading them. For instance, what constitutes messing about? In most instances I would suggest that the person doing the 'chasing' is the aggressor. In the case you mention here, if the surgeon didn't want to be subjected to the 'usual volley of abuse', why chase after them?
I'm afraid I've seen too much of youths attacking pensioners to agree with you on that one. Most of these judges live in cloud cuckoo land to make a correct judgment about anything.
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I'm afraid I've seen too much of youths attacking pensioners to agree with you on that one. Most of these judges live in cloud cuckoo land to make a correct judgment about anything.
And you are basing this ridiculous assertation on what may i ask?
Have you any idea of the years and years of study, training and work it takes to become a Judge. You don't just walk in from the street and become one!
Your post is highly highly insulting.
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And you are basing this ridiculous assertation on what may i ask?
Have you any idea of the years and years of study, training and work it takes to become a Judge. You don't just walk in from the street and become one!
Your post is highly highly insulting.
Based on some of the rediculous judgments I've seen made by judges. Years of study should bring responsibily and not praise. I have also consulted other legal people on this and they agree with me.
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Petey if you actually look at the post of Grahame you may spot something, he mentions no single judge names and i agree with what he said, so please scorn me too, they sit in their ivory towers on a salary many will never see, out of touch with reality and society, we are below them, its 2012 and still we are pratting around with courts full of the great iam s kneel and worship me rubbish, human judges are obsolete its time for machines to make such judgements.
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Based on some of the rediculous judgments I've seen made by judges. Years of study should bring responsibily and not praise. I have also consulted other legal people on this and they agree with me.
Clearly you are basing this on your clearly honed legal expertise of how criminal law and sentencing work.
Obviously you are aware that hundreds and hundreds of decisions are made every day in courts up and down the land, not just the few high profile ones featured on the news.
Of course you wouldn't be adopting a lay mans viewpoint of somebody without the slighest inkling how the legal system works.
If that is your honest viewpoint then my respect for you has significantly diminished.
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Petey if you actually look at the post of Grahame you may spot something, he mentions no single judge names and i agree with what he said, so please scorn me too, they sit in their ivory towers on a salary many will never see, out of touch with reality and society, we are below them, its 2012 and still we are pratting around with courts full of the great iam s kneel and worship me rubbish, human judges are obsolete its time for machines to make such judgements.
I have no need to scorn you. I merely pity your blind ignorance, it would seem particularly relating to legal matters.
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I have no need to scorn you. I merely pity your blind ignorance, it would seem particularly relating to legal matters.
A polygraph is a machine is it not ?, can be used within US law, the law is a farce , there are always limits to what a society will take, i can see law in time ending and people taking the law into their own hands, when that happens , logic will reign.
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A polygraph is a machine is it not ?, can be used within US law, the law is a farce , there are always limits to what a society will take, i can see law in time ending and people taking the law into their own hands, when that happens , logic will reign.
Everybody is entitled to an opinion.
As you can probably tell, I do not agree with yours!
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Everybody is entitled to an opinion.
As you can probably tell, I do not agree with yours!
I figured you would not that much is certain.
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When you read of a 'barmy judge' in the newspaper, along with the headline you get a very slanted report with no balance at all. Therefor, in most of these cases, unless you make the effort to read up on the WHOLE case and take on board both the defence and prosecution arguments, surely you are not fit to judge.
I personally hold our judges in the highest regard, as I do our surgeons.
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When you read of a 'barmy judge' in the newspaper, along with the headline you get a very slanted report with no balance at all. Therefor, in most of these cases, unless you make the effort to read up on the WHOLE case and take on board both the defence and prosecution arguments, surely you are not fit to judge.
I personally hold our judges in the highest regard, as I do our surgeons.
I agree. I'm not sure Graham realises how insulting his posts have been
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I have no need to scorn you. I merely pity your blind ignorance, it would seem particularly relating to legal matters.
My assessment is based entirely upon what I see and the judgments they make and as I said upon the words of other legal people. Just because someone studies for years to obtain the best posititions in life does not automatically make them wise.
Obviously I don't include ALL judges. But from what I have observed I have a very low opinion of the profession. My opinion is not as rediculous as it may first seem.
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When you read of a 'barmy judge' in the newspaper, along with the headline you get a very slanted report with no balance at all. Therefor, in most of these cases, unless you make the effort to read up on the WHOLE case and take on board both the defence and prosecution arguments, surely you are not fit to judge.
I personally hold our judges in the highest regard, as I do our surgeons.
One day i may do also, however they need to give something in return, they can start by getting rid of those stupid wigs, all they want in a court in front of them is a bowl of quaker oats with milk and they might look the part, robot explorers are checking out the martian surface for life and here on earth judges in Britain are wearing wigs , i should have been a comedian.
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When you read of a 'barmy judge' in the newspaper, along with the headline you get a very slanted report with no balance at all. Therefor, in most of these cases, unless you make the effort to read up on the WHOLE case and take on board both the defence and prosecution arguments, surely you are not fit to judge.
I personally hold our judges in the highest regard, as I do our surgeons.
I'm afraid you cannot compare the two. If one is in a position to enjoy high regard from the public then they are also in the position of great responsibility. I have yet to see true British justice executed in our courtrooms.
On the case of insults I am sure that certain people on this forum don't really know what real insults are until they have been insulted on many occasions as I have been?
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My assessment is based entirely upon what I see and the judgments they make and as I said upon the words of other legal people. Just because someone studies for years to obtain the best posititions in life does not automatically make them wise.
Obviously I don't include ALL judges. But from what I have observed I have a very low opinion of the profession. My opinion is not as rediculous as it may first seem.
It is a very very bold and in my opinion foolish statement to make when what you have seen and observed will account for less than 0.01% of judges and cases which have been decided.
What do you mean by 'the profession'? Are u talking judges? barristers? solicitors? paralegals?
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One day i may do also, however they need to give something in return, they can start by getting rid of those stupid wigs, all they want in a court in front of them is a bowl of quaker oats with milk and they might look the part, robot explorers are checking out the martian surface for life and here on earth judges in Britain are wearing wigs , i should have been a comedian.
Tell us a joke then! ;D
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It is a very very bold and in my opinion foolish statement to make when what you have seen and observed will account for less than 0.01% of judges and cases which have been decided.
What do you mean by 'the profession'? Are u talking judges? barristers? solicitors? paralegals?
My statement is clear and you know what I have been speaking about. Sometimes those in the legal profession are not in the best place to make a fair judgment on the matter. Which I think you will find it is so in many things in life.
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I'm afraid you cannot compare the two. If one is in a position to enjoy high regard from the public then they are also in the position of great responsibility. I have yet to see true British justice executed in our courtrooms.
On the case of insults I am sure that certain people on this forum don't really know what real insults are until they have been insulted on many occasions as I have been?
maybe if you didn't make so many crass, insensitive, factually wrong, ill thought out posts, then you wouldn't be criticised / insulted so much.
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My statement is clear and you know what I have been speaking about. Sometimes those in the legal profession are not in the best place to make a fair judgment on the matter. Which I think you will find it is so in many things in life.
So do you ccept that your overall perception of judges and the legal system is based on what you have experienced or read about, which is less than 0.01%?
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maybe if you didn't make so many crass, insensitive, factually wrong, ill thought out posts, then you wouldn't be criticised / insulted so much.
I think you will find that I am quite correct in my assessment of things? The only problem that you have is that you do not agree with me. The problem I am afraid is yours in that you have taken offense where no offense should have been taken. It is just two different opinions where both of us are entitled to have. As of course we are both looking at things from different perspectives. There is abasolutely no reason for you to make insulting posts against me, as My original post was in no may directed at you, or in any way calculated to offend you. I'm sorry if I have Petey.
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Here goes ( a saying that I can't stand ) At the end of the day,,one can be academically minded,and very clever,but sadly devoid of common sense,which features in lots of cases.
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Hi lookout that saying applies so much to so many things and not many people have all the three. ;)
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When you read of a 'barmy judge' in the newspaper, along with the headline you get a very slanted report with no balance at all. Therefor, in most of these cases, unless you make the effort to read up on the WHOLE case and take on board both the defence and prosecution arguments, surely you are not fit to judge.
I personally hold our judges in the highest regard, as I do our surgeons.
Very true. Unfortunately it is very rare for the public to get access to the summing up, closing speeches, transcripts of witness evidence etc and so all we are left with is the opinion of some jaded hack.
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Hi lookout that saying applies so much to so many things and not many people have all the three. ;)
Hi Susan,,so very true.
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Very true. Unfortunately it is very rare for the public to get access to the summing up, closing speeches, transcripts of witness evidence etc and so all we are left with is the opinion of some jaded hack.
Hi Bridget, yes I know, it's very frustrating, isn't it!
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Hi Bridget, yes I know, it's very frustrating, isn't it!
I suppose if you're interested enough in a particular case you can go and sit in, although I imagine space is limited in the high profile cases. Can you see a day when our criminal courts go televised? The Supreme Court has already I think, I tried to watch some but fell asleep.
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Tell us a joke then! ;D
Simples, Britain gives Syrian rebels 5 million pounds for non lethal use, after its been creamed off it might buy some smallarms , i could not dream the insanity up better myself.
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Simples, Britain gives Syrian rebels 5 million pounds for non lethal use, after its been creamed off it might buy some smallarms , i could not dream the insanity up better myself.
Yes,I noticed that. We're full of crack-pot ideas in this country.
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I suppose if you're interested enough in a particular case you can go and sit in, although I imagine space is limited in the high profile cases. Can you see a day when our criminal courts go televised? The Supreme Court has already I think, I tried to watch some but fell asleep.
Believe me its slower than watching paint dry sometimes. I remember once when a car door was brought into court just in case there was any doubt in the jury's mind as to what one looked like. ???
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Believe me its slower than watching paint dry sometimes. I remember once when a car door was brought into court just in case there was any doubt in the jury's mind as to what one looked like. ???
Nice to hear that they're that thorough.
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Nice to hear that they're that thorough.
Yes in between waking the judge up.
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Yes in between waking the judge up.
And it was well to see that Arlidge had hold of the wrong briefs.! He's not going to live that one down.
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Believe me its slower than watching paint dry sometimes. I remember once when a car door was brought into court just in case there was any doubt in the jury's mind as to what one looked like. ???
you would get more intrest out of a Dalek grahame than a jury , jury are usually take human form bad bad news.
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Yes in between waking the judge up.
But be fair most judges usually bend over backwards to see that a defendant gets a fair trial. A lot of them lean towards the defence most of the time. Well from general observation that is. But as has been pointed out to me in no uncertain terms, I know nothing. ;)
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But be fair most judges usually bend over backwards to see that a defendant gets a fair trial. A lot of them lean towards the defence most of the time. Well from general observation that is. But as has been pointed out to me in no uncertain terms, I know nothing. ;)
Jeremy Bamber slipped through the net no fair trial, it was a waste of time, he just might have waited outside and have a slip of paper with the passing of sentence.
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But be fair most judges usually bend over backwards to see that a defendant gets a fair trial. A lot of them lean towards the defence most of the time. Well from general observation that is. But as has been pointed out to me in no uncertain terms, I know nothing. ;)
I suppose Grahame like most things in life, there are good and bad judges. I would imagine now that it is not monopolised by the upper classes there are no doubt more aware and imaginative judges. They are not just sitting on high judging the hoi palloi.
Should imagine also that they have to work within guidelines that they may find prohibitive....there is however, the ones with personality disorders who are socio/psycho and have climbed that steep ladder, stamping on everyone on the way to attain their position of power. There must be a percentage as there is in all positions of power.
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agreed!! theres good & bad!!
a judge takes years of training and most have started out as a sociltor etc!! :D
most judges are fine! if the defendant has a good friendly attitude they do ok!
I say there are some judges that took everything to be there!! even some judges have came from a poor background and are the most respectful!
of course if you have lots of money the defendant can getway with fines instead jail about £5000+ with court fines is common for 6month max offences!
Like someone with no criminal history is in prosesson of a shotgun without a SGC gets a £750 fine in the magistrates court!! good judgement
when someone with a sawn-off shotgun and fires one barrel in someones front door then fires the second barrel in their back door! get a 3 year impersonment! yeah he should at least got 6 years!
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Jeremy Bamber slipped through the net no fair trial, it was a waste of time, he just might have waited outside and have a slip of paper with the passing of sentence.
Well there are things about Judge (ducky) Drake I could tell you which are best left unsaid. ;)
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I suppose Grahame like most things in life, there are good and bad judges. I would imagine now that it is not monopolised by the upper classes there are no doubt more aware and imaginative judges. They are not just sitting on high judging the hoi palloi.
Should imagine also that they have to work within guidelines that they may find prohibitive....there is however, the ones with personality disorders who are socio/psycho and have climbed that steep ladder, stamping on everyone on the way to attain their position of power. There must be a percentage as there is in all positions of power.
Maggie you will understand me when I say that knowledge amounts to nothing without wisdom. In my humble opinion the world may be gaining in knowledge, but few grow in wisdom.
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Maggie you will understand me when I say that knowledge amounts to nothing without wisdom. In my humble opinion the world may be gaining in knowledge, but few grow in wisdom.
I certainly do understand and agree with that Grahame.
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I suppose Grahame like most things in life, there are good and bad judges.....there is however, the ones with personality disorders who are socio/psycho and have climbed that steep ladder, stamping on everyone on the way to attain their position of power. There must be a percentage as there is in all positions of power.
'Morning Maggie. WOW!! How interesting is that and what food for thought!! Most of us are aware that there are more p/s 'paths in prominent positions than there are in prison cells. We also know that they work from a different moral compass to the rest of society. Surely this must have some effect on the way they view the crime committed and the subsequent sentence they hand down.
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But be fair most judges usually bend over backwards to see that a defendant gets a fair trial. A lot of them lean towards the defence most of the time. Well from general observation that is. But as has been pointed out to me in no uncertain terms, I know nothing. ;)
Very good point Grahame.
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agreed!! theres good & bad!!
a judge takes years of training and most have started out as a sociltor etc!! :D
most judges are fine! if the defendant has a good friendly attitude they do ok!
I say there are some judges that took everything to be there!! even some judges have came from a poor background and are the most respectful!
of course if you have lots of money the defendant can getway with fines instead jail about £5000+ with court fines is common for 6month max offences!
Like someone with no criminal history is in prosesson of a shotgun without a SGC gets a £750 fine in the magistrates court!! good judgement
when someone with a sawn-off shotgun and fires one barrel in someones front door then fires the second barrel in their back door! get a 3 year impersonment! yeah he should at least got 6 years!
Judges are appointed from the bar so are barristers, not solicitors which is completely different.
Sorry if nit picking!
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I just wanted to add to this thread that I have never regarded Susan as being Jackie. I regard the notion as a silly myth. I think that members who have engaged in such accusations should pack it in.
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Hi Roch Thanks for that. I have had so many pm's of support from my friends on the forum saying just that and I think it should be put to bed. As far as I am concerned it is becoming quite boring :) and their are far more serious issues to debate on the forum other than me :)
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I just wanted to add to this thread that I have never regarded Susan as being Jackie. I regard the notion as a silly myth. I think that members who have engaged in such accusations should pack it in.
I'm very pleased you said that Roch. It's good to know she has your support.
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I just wanted to add to this thread that I have never regarded Susan as being Jackie. I regard the notion as a silly myth. I think that members who have engaged in such accusations should pack it in.
I respect that. It's your opinion. But I have a different one. Fuelled by what I saw with Jackie's post, by what Keira told me (which I've sent to NGB for proof) and more recently by Jackie's tongue in cheek posts on the red forum.
But it's fine to have different opinions. I will just choose to stay clear and to warn my friends, so they can make up their own minds.
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What did Keira base her conclusions on - how would she know?
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I respect that. It's your opinion. But I have a different one. Fuelled by what I saw with Jackie's post, by what Keira told me (which I've sent to NGB for proof) and more recently by Jackie's tongue in cheek posts on the red forum.
But it's fine to have different opinions. I will just choose to stay clear and to warn my friends, so they can make up their own minds.
I hope you realise the implications involved, in the event of you actually being wrong in this? It is akin to persecution of a particular forum member.
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What did Keira base her conclusions on - how would she know?
Something to do with the I.P's. Aswell as she saw Jackie post like I did, or least she claimed she'd also seen it.
I hope you realise the implications involved, in the event of you actually being wrong in this? It is akin to persecution of a particular forum member.
I know, but I also know I'm not wrong Roch. I know what I saw which is why I can't blindly play the game.
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Hi Roch I have offered ngb my email address and home address that will put an end to the nonsense when he sees it.
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Something to do with the I.P's. Aswell as she saw Jackie post like I did, or least she claimed she'd also seen it.
I know, but I also know I'm not wrong Roch. I know what I saw which is why I can't blindly play the game.
I've seen you post about the IPs elsewhere - you said that according to Keira Susan's IP changes all of the time. That is entirely consistant with what Susan has always said - that she has a dial up connection. Her IP address will change every time she logs on to the internet.
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I've seen you post about the IPs elsewhere - you said that according to Keira Susan's IP changes all of the time. That is entirely consistant with what Susan has always said - that she has a dial up connection. Her IP address will change every time she logs on to the internet.
But that doesn't explain why it would give her hidden I.P's or show her as from different places around the world.
But I really don't think I should argue this any more. Let's just have different opinions.
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Hi Roch I have offered ngb my email address and home address that will put an end to the nonsense when he sees it.
We have your email address already Susan. It's ok. :)
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Hi Bridget I don't even know what an IP is does it mean I live all over the world I am such a lucky girl. I have offered up to ngb only my email address and home address and I can assure doubters it will put an end to this victimization as I have been targetted since April. What more can I do to prove who I am.
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Hi Bridget I don't even know what an IP is does it mean I live all over the world I am such a lucky girl. I have offered up to ngb only my email address and home address and I can assure doubters it will put an end to this victimization as I have been targetted since April. What more can I do to prove who I am.
It's those numbers you see in the bottom right hand corner of your own posts.
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Hi Bridget I don't even know what an IP is does it mean I live all over the world I am such a lucky girl. I have offered up to ngb only my email address and home address and I can assure doubters it will put an end to this victimization as I have been targetted since April. What more can I do to prove who I am.
I told you a few months ago, and I told you 3 days ago - I wasn't even going to tell anyone. But I won't play games.
I was annoyed that at the same time Jackie messaged me on the red forum with her phone number, you message me bascially the same rubbish here about ignoring Margot.
I don't want to be involved in it. Just do not PM me.
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What did Keira base her conclusions on - how would she know?
She didn't and she said nothing to me about it and she is a closer friend to me than most on this forum.
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She didn't and she said nothing to me about it and she is a closer friend to me than most on this forum.
No offence, Grahame, but there was a time I was closer to Keira than you would even know. She was telling me about the PM campaign you started about me to get me banned. And how annoyed she was that she had to take a phone call from you at 10PM at night time because you were fuming.
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Hi Roch I have offered ngb my email address and home address that will put an end to the nonsense when he sees it.
Don't worry Susan the admin are accurately informed. Have no axe to grind and know that you are indeed Susan. I am also in touch with Jackie and know therefore it is a blatant lie of those whose aim it is to cause trouble and to bring this forum into disrepute.
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Don't worry Susan the admin are accurately informed. Have no axe to grind and know that you are indeed Susan. I am also in touch with Jackie and know therefore it is a blatant lie of those whose aim it is to cause trouble and to bring this forum into disrepute.
Me? I didn't bring it up on here - Susans friend Margot did.
Let's not talk about bringing the forum into disrepute, Grahame with all you've done here. Your fake Gav account, your other fake username.
Bullying members.
Calling people twats.
Attacking the mods and admins time and time again.
And leaving..........4 times since I've been here.
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No offence, Grahame, but there was a time I was closer to Keira than you would even know. She was telling me about the PM campaign you started about me to get me banned. And how annoyed she was that she had to take a phone call from you at 10PM at night time because you were fuming.
I actually knew what she was up to. She even told me about it. I have never ever phoned Keira. She has always phoned me. I don't even know her phone number. So why don't you stop telling these silly untruths. It is obvious to the admin what you are up to.
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No offence, Grahame, but there was a time I was closer to Keira than you would even know. She was telling me about the PM campaign you started about me to get me banned. And how annoyed she was that she had to take a phone call from you at 10PM at night time because you were fuming.
PM campaigns to get someone banned, Is this true? Can you actually prove that?
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Me? I didn't bring it up on here - Susans friend Margot did.
Let's not talk about bringing the forum into disrepute, Grahame with all you've done here. Your fake Gav account, your other fake username.
Bullying members.
Calling people twats.
Attacking the mods and admins time and time again.
And leaving..........4 times since I've been here.
You see? You can't even leave it alone can you. I've known that you were a troll and a trouble maker from the beginning and so did half the forum. This is the last post that I am going to make to you Mat. So as far as I am concerned you can lie as much as your hearts content.
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PM campaigns to get someone banned, Is this true? Can you actually prove that?
Don't take any notice Simon. It is all in his silly mind. He began by boasting of his higher knowledge of the bamber case and he has continued that to this day and has been on a personal vendetta to oust all the good long term posters and calling their integrity into question. You will notice that it is never HE who is wrong and that everyone is wrongly persecuting him.
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PM campaigns to get someone banned, Is this true? Can you actually prove that?
Yes.
I spent hours pming Grahame to stop him getting you banned last night.
But when I arrived at my office , there was a pm campaign to have you banned in full swing.
The only way I could stop that campaign in its tracks was to apply a temporary ban.
I did it to save you from being banned.
It was just a short ban to allow members to cool down and to give me a chance to put a stop to this campaign. It had to be stopped before it gathered any more momentum.
That worked, because you're still here, aren't you?
But if you're determined to ignore me, go ahead.
Keira
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haha it was all a game and you played into her hand. All she was doing was trying to get close to you in order to get information. Because she though that you were some bigwig from some big company that did work for the ccrc. I knew all about it and was advising her. ;D ;D ;D She was making a mug of you mat.
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She didn't and she said nothing to me about it and she is a closer friend to me than most on this forum.
Grahame, I cannot believe that Mat is still grinding on and on trying to make trouble...mainly for Jackie even when Jackie ain't here. Why do you suppose he is so obsessed by Jackie?
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I can see where this is going. I wanted to be able to read the forum today but I will end up moderating a dispute. Mat I do wish you would cut out all the intrigues and just post on the forum about relevant matters. It would make my job so much easier.
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haha it was all a game and you played into her hand. All she was doing was trying to get close to you in order to get information. Because she though that you were some bigwig from some big company that did work for the ccrc. I knew all about it and was advising her. ;D ;D ;D She was making a mug of you mat.
I know that is true Grahame but I always told her she was mistaken and Mat was no bigwig. ;D
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haha it was all a game and you played into her hand. All she was doing was trying to get close to you in order to get information. Because she though that you were some bigwig from some big company that did work for the ccrc. I knew all about it and was advising her. ;D ;D ;D She was making a mug of you mat.
No, you've just been proved a liar again, Grahame. Keira making a mug of me? Oh Grahame, please! As you can tell by her last lines in that message I was ignoring her. I'd been ignoring her for days. If she was trying to get me on side she wouldn't have openly given me information she shouldn't have - silly risk to take when I already told her when I joined I wasn't ever going to discuss the case with her via pm.
I can see where this is going. I wanted to be able to read the forum today but I will end up moderating a dispute. Mat I do wish you would cut out all the intrigues and just post on the forum about relevant matters. It would make my job so much easier.
Well you can say the same to Grahame, surely? He never dares says names when he is trying to do silent attacks but you know they are there.
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Grahame, I cannot believe that Mat is still grinding on and on trying to make trouble...mainly for Jackie even when Jackie ain't here. Why do you suppose he is so obsessed by Jackie?
Yes strange isn't it. He still doesn't get it. Because of his high boasts about his "important" job Keira thought she'd try and get close to him. Unfortunately only I knew what she was doing and she ommitted to tell Jackie, because she thought that she would let out the secret on open forum and that set the seed for Jackie leaving. But believe me it was all an undercover info gathering exercise on the part of Keira.
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Well you can say the same to Grahame, surely? He never dares says names when he is trying to do silent attacks but you know they are there.
I've already had a spat with Grahame the other day. Controversy surrounds your posting when you deviate from topics relevant to threads. That's all I'm saying. The controversy is tiresome.
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Yes strange isn't it. He still doesn't get it. Because of his high boasts about his "important" job Keira thought she'd try and get close to him. Unfortunately only I knew what she was doing and she ommitted to tell Jackie, because she thought that she would let out the secret on open forum and that set the seed for Jackie leaving. But believe me it was all an undercover info gathering exercise on the part of Keira.
She lowered herself into sending naughty messages (which I didn't reply to) just to get close to me? Even though I knew there was a BIG age gap - so wasn't interested in it? Oh please Grahame.
She shamed herself, and then quite that account.
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Well I've said my piece and have told the truth and now lets put it to bed. This is definitely going to be my last post on the subject and am going to devote my energies to the case itself.
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Well I've said my piece and have told the truth and now lets put it to bed. This is definitely going to be my last post on the subject and am going to devote my energies to the case itself.
Top marks. :)
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She lowered herself into sending naughty messages (which I didn't reply to) just to get close to me? Even though I knew there was a BIG age gap - so wasn't interested in it? Oh please Grahame.
She shamed herself, and then quite that account.
Remember to take everything mat says with a pinch of salt. There is always another side to his stories...ther one where he is the instigator not the victim. imo
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Hi Mat
I think you're being rather ungentlemanly. Assuming Nuala sent you some 'flirty' messages why do you feel the need to tell all? I feel sure Rochford would never betray me in such a fashion :-X
You once posted that you were concerned about the sort of females that your son might encounter and you might do well to reflect on your own behaviour.
I know some posters have been a bit anti Mat. I didn't go along with this and at times have stood up for you but I really feel the above is below the belt and if anyone should feel ashamed it is you.
I would bet that Mat could have posted much worse!
He was quite obviously backed into a corner and labelled a liar.
By the way, why would it matter IF Susan were Jackie? Whilst on the subject, did Caroline R used to post as Chokchockeira? Finally, for the record and in response to some of Margot's earlier posts, I am Neil and am not and have never been John!
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I would bet that Mat could have posted much worse!
He was quite obviously backed into a corner and labelled a liar.
By the way, why would it matter IF Susan were Jackie? Whilst on the subject, did Caroline R used to post as Chokchockeira? Finally, for the record and in response to some of Margot's earlier posts, I am Neil and am not and have never been John!
You surprise me Neil, I thought you were Susan's friend, she was very upset by being accused of being someone other than herself, therefore some people supported and defended her when she wasn't online to defend herself. Mat built his own corner, as usual, serve him right if he got stuck in it. IMHO
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Went out for the daily run a short while ago and bumped into an acquaintance from up the road. We stopped to talk and she started telling me about her daughter's labrador that died unexpectedly, only 2 yoa, and that she had cried. Apparently the vet thinks the dog died from rat or mushroom poisoning picked up whilst in local fields.
She then said that she finds it easy to cry when animals die but rarely does when humans die and that her mother had said it would do her good to cry over losing her husband who died about 2/3 years ago!!!
Hi egap, that sounds a little strange :o and not very healthy in my opinion...think her mum may be right. ;D
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Remember to take everything mat says with a pinch of salt. There is always another side to his stories...ther one where he is the instigator not the victim. imo
Make that a keg of salt maggie.
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Make that a keg of salt maggie.
;D ;D ;D How was the boot sale Mertol?
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Hi Mags I can to an extent understand what egap is saying whenever I have lost a pet (who were like my children) I broke my heart for weeks. I think it is they look at you in such a way as to say can you please help me. With my parents I knew it was coming for months and they did not have to look at me like that because our Doctor helped them. I shed tears but it was such a different kind of loss and I will never forget the feeling and even years on I can get very sad :(
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Hi Maggie
But is it? As I understand it people grieve in different ways. I'm sure she did mourn the loss of her husband but just not with lots of :'(.
Isn't this partly the reason JB was convicted ie his behaviour didn't fit with what others thought it shld be for someone who had just lost 5 members of his adoptive family?
Well yes and I have argued strongly that people react to shock in different ways but a death of a husband may cause a shock reaction for a certain length of time but you would think to never have shed a tear over it in all that time is odd. The massive trauma that Jermy Bamber had to deal with was a slightly different kettle of fish but he did shed tears. I have seen partners of people who have died behave very strangely but it was shock, it is unlikely it lasted for 3 years!
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;D ;D ;D How was the boot sale Mertol?
it was ok maggie bought 2 collectable Toyah singles, weather tip top, going to one sunday at the local football ground, can be mundane but sometimes a gem can be snapped up just going to tesco in a few mins for some fruit.
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You surprise me Neil, I thought you were Susan's friend, she was very upset by being accused of being someone other than herself, therefore some people supported and defended her when she wasn't online to defend herself. Mat built his own corner, as usual, serve him right if he got stuck in it. IMHO
Hello Maggie, I very much like Susan, she comes across as being a very kind and honest lady. I would say exactly the same about Jackie. I wasn't subscribing to the view that Jackie and Susan are the same person, merely making the point that it doesn't really matter if they are.
I take your point though, my post didn't come across as very sympathetic and Susan does have my full sympathy, this nonsense has carried on for long enough.
I don't think that Mat is a liar but believe that he may have been deceived by others.
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Sometimes i am at a loss in exactly how jeremy should have
handeled his presense with the funerals of his family it would have been easier for him not to attend them at all .
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Hi Neil Thanks for your support I thought you had gone off me :) ;) ;)
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Hi Neil Thanks for your support I thought you had gone off me :) ;) ;)
Hello Susan, no chance! :)
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I don't think that Mat is a liar but believe that he may have been deceived by others.
I appreciate your generosity of thinking Neil but I think you will find Mat knows exactly what he's doing.
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I appreciate your generosity of thinking Neil but I think you will find Mat knows exactly what he's doing.
I wonder if Mat regrets introducing himself on the forum, in the manner he did. Not that it upset me, I hasten to add.
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Went out for the daily run a short while ago and bumped into an acquaintance from up the road. We stopped to talk and she started telling me about her daughter's labrador that died unexpectedly, only 2 yoa, and that she had cried. Apparently the vet thinks the dog died from rat or mushroom poisoning picked up whilst in local fields.
She then said that she finds it easy to cry when animals die but rarely does when humans die and that her mother had said it would do her good to cry over losing her husband who died about 2/3 years ago!!!
Hi, Egap. My first guess would be that the tears she sheds for animals are those she cannot shed for her late husband OR perhaps her husband had been ill for some time and all her tears had been spent then OR maybe she disliked him so much, for whatever reason, that she doesn't think he's worth her tears. As you say, grieving takes different forms for different people.
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Hi april talking of ways of dealing with death. I loved my Dad so much and looked after him for about 3 months before his death. When the undertaker came to my house re. the funeral arrangements I took one look at him and started howling with laughter he looked so ridiculous he had flared trousers on that were a little short his boots had big heals on them plus the tie was into very different lengths He said this was emotion that had been building up for weeks but it was'ent it was him but I could not say so. If anybody saw me they would think she cannot have loved her Dad but I did and missed him immensely.
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Sometimes i am at a loss in exactly how jeremy should have
handeled his presense with the funerals of his family it would have been easier for him not to attend them at all .
I suppose whatever he had done it would have been wrong Mertol. Bet he didn't want to go to any of them, imagine the uproar if he hadn't. My mum didn't go to my Dad's funeral because she was in her 80s and she couldn't bare the thought of it...she looked after the grandchildren instead...none of the family found this odd.
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Hello Maggie, I very much like Susan, she comes across as being a very kind and honest lady. I would say exactly the same about Jackie. I wasn't subscribing to the view that Jackie and Susan are the same person, merely making the point that it doesn't really matter if they are.
I take your point though, my post didn't come across as very sympathetic and Susan does have my full sympathy, this nonsense has carried on for long enough.
I don't think that Mat is a liar but believe that he may have been deceived by others.
Thanks, Neil.
If Grahame and Keira had a plan of action to be-friend me for information then IMO that says more about those two than it does about me. But oh well.
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Hi april talking of ways of dealing with death. I loved my Dad so much and looked after him for about 3 months before his death. When the undertaker came to my house re. the funeral arrangements I took one look at him and started howling with laughter he looked so ridiculous he had flared trousers on that were a little short his boots had big heals on them plus the tie was into very different lengths He said this was emotion that had been building up for weeks but it was'ent it was him but I could not say so. If anybody saw me they would think she cannot have loved her Dad but I did and missed him immensely.
Susan, I felt sad when my father died, but it was a soaring relief when my mother died. The only guilt I felt was because there was no guilt I could feel. It was as if I'd been released from the crime of not being the daughter she wanted me to be. I felt totally lost when my beloved partner died, but there was absolutely NO feelings of guilt. I had fulfilled everything he had asked of me. Time doesn't so much heal, as put things in a place where they can be more easily handled.
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Mat. I have just seen what you have said on the other forum. Susan is NOT Jackie. She has proven that to me this afternoon beyond all doubt, not that she should have had to do so. I don't know what you think you saw re the posts, but you were mistaken, as was Keira. You have been given the benefit of the doubt here over the 'hacking Maggie' thing, and also the PM you sent to Jackie (and on that subject I will say right now that I don't believe Jackie edited that PM), so even if you don't believe me re Susan I'm asking you to give her the benefit of the doubt and back off, both here and over there.
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Mat. I have just seen what you have said on the other forum. Susan is NOT Jackie. She has proven that to me this afternoon beyond all doubt, not that she should have had to do so. I don't know what you think you saw re the posts, but you were mistaken, as was Keira. You have been given the benefit of the doubt here over the 'hacking Maggie' thing, and also the PM you sent to Jackie (and on that subject I will say right now that I don't believe Jackie edited that PM), so even if you don't believe me re Susan I'm asking you to give her the benefit of the doubt and back off, both here and over there.
If I am wrong, I apologise to Susan. But when I went and asked Keira she convinced me and I trusted her.
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Mat. I have just seen what you have said on the other forum. Susan is NOT Jackie. She has proven that to me this afternoon beyond all doubt, not that she should have had to do so. I don't know what you think you saw re the posts, but you were mistaken, as was Keira. You have been given the benefit of the doubt here over the 'hacking Maggie' thing, and also the PM you sent to Jackie (and on that subject I will say right now that I don't believe Jackie edited that PM), so even if you don't believe me re Susan I'm asking you to give her the benefit of the doubt and back off, both here and over there.
As for the hacking - I wasn't given the benefit of the doubt. They realised they were wrong.
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If I am wrong, I apologise to Susan. But when I went and asked Keira she convinced me and I trusted her.
Don't try to blame it on Keira, you're the one making the accusations, not her.
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Oh, I'm not. I fully believe/d that Susan was Jackie and I don't think I was the first person to say so.
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Hi april so sad you felt like that about your Mother It is funny but I loved my parents and was so good to them but still had feelings of guilt I have a lovely son and have been a good Mother but always think I good have done better. I think it is a thing that comes with age.
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Hi Susan,,,I was just full of anger when my husband died. I'd done my grieving during the 5/6 years that he was ill. My anger was made worse when I rang an out of hours locum at night to come and verify his death,as I had him at home as he'd requested. The GP on the other end of the phone asked " what do you mean,he's dead ? ". I then bit my tongue and asked him to come along and see for himself.
I couldn't believe that the doctor couldn't understand what I was telling him. He was about 26.! Must have drawn the short straw that night. He was dressed for the occasion in a long black overcoat that was nearly down to his ankles.
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She lowered herself into sending naughty messages (which I didn't reply to) just to get close to me? Even though I knew there was a BIG age gap - so wasn't interested in it? Oh please Grahame.
She shamed herself, and then quite that account.
thats alright I am more attracted to older ladies! :P
But I believe Susan is who she say she is!! just look at her post cost!! or what ever this is about what going on!!!???? ???
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thats alright I am more attracted to older ladies! :P
:)
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Hi packagebuilder I'm old :) but not sure about the lady bit :)
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I wonder if Mat regrets introducing himself on the forum, in the manner he did. Not that it upset me, I hasten to add.
Yes! I do. I didn't have any idea that people would be so suspicious though.
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Yes! I do. I didn't have any idea that people would be so suspicious though.
You can be forgiven for not appreciating that, Mat. I joined around the same time as you and its only as time has passed that I have come to appreciate just how many troublemakers are out there. I think that it's perfectly understandable why some on here are so suspicious. Sadly, not everyone is as trusting as you.
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Well,Andrea,,it was the Sun newspaper that Jeremy allegedly approached,for the purchase of the said photos,so my guess is that you had a little sneak preview to see if they'd been printed.
Oooooh no lookout she doesn't READ the Sun but she believes in what it's reporter, Fielder says (hypocrite) ;)
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Oooooh no lookout she doesn't READ the Sun but she believes in what it's reporter, Fielder says (hypocrite) ;)
Fielder gave a statement to that effect didn't he? Has Jeremy ever actually denied it?
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Hi everyone, just got back from holidays so apologies if this has been posted before..I did a psychology course a few years back and as in most theories on the subject there are certain 'facts' and 'myths', but the first common stage of grief is 'denial' which can last from hours to weeks and months. Right after a loss, it can be hard to accept what happened. You may feel numb, have trouble believing that the loss really happened, or even deny the truth. If someone you love has died, you may keep expecting them to show up, even though you know they’re gone. Jeremy had the press on his back and was under the scrutiny of his vulture relatives....I would have gone away for a while too and people calling it a 'holiday' imo are being flippant...
Most people coping with grief can turn to to family members – Now is the time to lean on the people who care about you, even if you take pride in being strong and self-sufficient. You draw loved ones close, rather than avoiding them, and accept the assistance that’s offered. Jeremy did Not have this option imo............................
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Fielder gave a statement to that effect didn't he? Has Jeremy ever actually denied it?
Yes Bridget, Jeremy has denied it on many occassions.....He was actually contacted by Fielder asking if he had any modelling pictures of Shiela....Maybe Jeremy was naive but don't forget he was only 24 and NOT worldly wise...He took Brett along with him to the meeting set up by Fielder out of curiousity, but he did NOT take any pictures with him...Jeremy has never seen such pictures and certainly was not in the possession of any such pictures...
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Yes Bridget, Jeremy has denied it on many occassions.....He was actually contacted by Fielder asking if he had any modelling pictures of Shiela....Maybe Jeremy was naive but don't forget he was only 24 and NOT worldly wise...He took Brett along with him to the meeting set up by Fielder out of curiousity, but he did NOT take any pictures with him...Jeremy has never seen such pictures and certainly was not in the possession of any such pictures...
Ok, fair enough, thanks for the explanation.
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Good Morning Bridget how are you today. Well I hope.
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Good Morning Bridget how are you today. Well I hope.
Morning Susan :)
I'm fine thanks, just popping in and out between battles with the brambles invading from next door... I'm losing :(
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Hi Bridget
A bit like your battles on the JB forum then ;D ;)
oof! Cheap shot! Lucky for you I'm in a good mood ;)
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Hi everyone, just got back from holidays so apologies if this has been posted before..I did a psychology course a few years back and as in most theories on the subject there are certain 'facts' and 'myths', but the first common stage of grief is 'denial' which can last from hours to weeks and months. Right after a loss, it can be hard to accept what happened. You may feel numb, have trouble believing that the loss really happened, or even deny the truth. If someone you love has died, you may keep expecting them to show up, even though you know they’re gone. Jeremy had the press on his back and was under the scrutiny of his vulture relatives....I would have gone away for a while too and people calling it a 'holiday' imo are being flippant...
Most people coping with grief can turn to to family members – Now is the time to lean on the people who care about you, even if you take pride in being strong and self-sufficient. You draw loved ones close, rather than avoiding them, and accept the assistance that’s offered. Jeremy did Not have this option imo............................
Well said Tracy and so true.
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Hi everyone, just got back from holidays so apologies if this has been posted before..I did a psychology course a few years back and as in most theories on the subject there are certain 'facts' and 'myths', but the first common stage of grief is 'denial' which can last from hours to weeks and months. Right after a loss, it can be hard to accept what happened. You may feel numb, have trouble believing that the loss really happened, or even deny the truth. If someone you love has died, you may keep expecting them to show up, even though you know they’re gone. Jeremy had the press on his back and was under the scrutiny of his vulture relatives....I would have gone away for a while too and people calling it a 'holiday' imo are being flippant...
Most people coping with grief can turn to to family members – Now is the time to lean on the people who care about you, even if you take pride in being strong and self-sufficient. You draw loved ones close, rather than avoiding them, and accept the assistance that’s offered. Jeremy did Not have this option imo............................
excellent post Tracy. I agree with everything you have said there. I lot my parents 7 years ago and found grieving very hard with what was going on. Only now am I at CRUISE which will last about a year. So I can relate to all you have said there...What I can't understand is that people tend to ignore reality and the reality is that we each except grief in different ways. One persons' exceptence is not necessarily the same as others. :) :) :)
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oof! Cheap shot! Lucky for you I'm in a good mood ;)
:) :) :) :)
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I agree with Maggie and Patti what an excellent post and I had to comment even though I don't post much. Maybe it's time to put the nude photo myth to bed.
I have been reading everything about this case and the supporters and I understand Tracy is one of Jeremys longest most loyal supporters and well done for that!!!
There can't be many people JB knows who are so loyal
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Hi TracyJBH
Hope you had a good hol.
It appears that the Kubler-Ross model of grieving is widely accepted and used. It uses five stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model
Interestingly the above is used in adoption as well - under grief section:
http://fairfamilies.org/newsfromfair/1999/99LifelongIssues.htm
Perhaps when JB lost his adoptive family it sparked off unresolved issues about the loss of his birth family which he may not even have been aware of.
Hi egapyou dont hear this often from me but I do thoroughly agree with you that the horrendous and brutal loss of his adootive family...which was the only family he could remember, dysfunctional or not must have sparked off deep old emotionao pain concernng feelings of abandonment and grief from his first traumatic loss of his birth mother.
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Hi egapyou dont hear this often from me but I do thoroughly agree with you that the horrendous and brutal loss of his adootive family...which was the only family he could remember, dysfunctional or not must have sparked off deep old emotionao pain concernng feelings of abandonment and grief from his first traumatic loss of his birth mother.
These feelings of grief didn't last very long did they? Only a few hours after being told of the slaughter of his whole family he is canoodling up to Julie Mugford and whispering "I should have been an actor",there were the crude sexual jokes on the way to the crematorium at the funerals,the bragging to Colin that he his witness statement was longer than Colin's,which reminds me of that grammar school environment when pupils used to brag in front of fellow-pupils how much they had written in a test essay,an environment which Jeremy academically felt like a flop. Now he was in charge,unshackled and people would dance to his tune.
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For obvious reasons jeremy and colin provided their statements not in either ones company, colin says in his book jeremy came out back to him saying they have taken this much off me , other than anything else i thought jeremy was a closer relation to the family than colin i must be mistaken.
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These feelings of grief didn't last very long did they? Only a few hours after being told of the slaughter of his whole family he is canoodling up to Julie Mugford and whispering "I should have been an actor",there were the crude sexual jokes on the way to the crematorium at the funerals,the bragging to Colin that he his witness statement was longer than Colin's,which reminds me of that grammar school environment when pupils used to brag in front of fellow-pupils how much they had written in a test essay,an environment which Jeremy academically felt like a flop. Now he was in charge,unshackled and people would dance to his tune.
Steve where is this from? Where you there.....do you understand grief and trauma at all?
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Hi Patti good thing for egap that Bridget is battling with brambles :) ;) ;)
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Steve where is this from? Where you there.....do you understand grief and trauma at all?
I know that people grieve in different ways;I accept this without having read all the links of the experts who no doubt could tell us all the stages that grief involves. But again I have to put it to the Jeremy supporters:there is so much evidence out there,call it circumstantial if you like but it comes from diverse quarters,that Jeremy is behind this crime. I know it's not what you want to hear. Maggie I am reading through the books written on the case and the information contained in the post you allude to is from Colin Caffell's book "In Search of the Rainbow's End".
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I agree with Maggie and Patti what an excellent post and I had to comment even though I don't post much. Maybe it's time to put the nude photo myth to bed.
I have been reading everything about this case and the supporters and I understand Tracy is one of Jeremys longest most loyal supporters and well done for that!!!
There can't be many people JB knows who are so loyal
Yes, let's conveniently forget about an event that was witnessed and printed, and let's concentrate on wild speculation.....
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Hi Steve_uk
As many of the posts have stated on here people grieve in different ways.
Someone with JB's background ie adopted and boarding school might think displaying any emotion/vulnerabilites is a sign of weakness.
Had JB carried out the murders I feel he would have been very mindful of his behaviour and how it might have been interpreted. As he was innocent he did whatever came naturally which at times might have appeared crass.
Yes,egap,,Jeremys' behaviour was no different if that's what people were tittle-tattling about. He'd have shown great strain and would have been affected in some way,behaviourally.
Probably a lot had to do with the fact that he knew he hadn't done it,and sensed relief in that respect,albeit for 12 months.
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Hi April1
Yes you're right her husband had been unwell for sometime and he was quite grumpy once nearly run me over in his motorised scooter or whatever you call those things.
;
Hi egap. ANOTHER case of road rage!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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april you are so funny I get knocked down by them all the time I have to jump into ditches at times and watch for them coming back to get me again :)
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april you are so funny I get knocked down by them all the time I have to jump into ditches at times and watch for them coming back to get me again :)
Susan, hi. Those drivers are LETHAL!!! When they feel the force of the hairdryer powered engine, backed up by bunny batteries, the power goes to their head!!! In the village I've just moved from they drive in the middle of the road, If they're on the pavement they bash into the back of peoples heels. There's only one thing worse. At the moment the world and his wife (and children!!!) are all wiggins wanabees and they're all cycling on roads near me!!!
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Yes april when they get behind the wheel on the high street power goes to their head and they think they are Dan Dare they are lethal and dangerous and you need your wits about you to stay in one piece. Some men are the same on ride on lawn mowers. :) Hope poor mertol never meets up with them :)
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Yes april when they get behind the wheel on the high street power goes to their head and they think they are Dan Dare they are lethal and dangerous and you need your wits about you to stay in one piece. Some men are the same on ride on lawn mowers. :) Hope poor mertol never meets up with them :)
Can you imagine Mertol's horror if they ever bring in motorised shopping trolleys?
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Hi Bridget can you imagine mertol if next time he goes in the supermarket he see's motorised trolleys with men in baggy shorts socks and sandels and lists I think he will have himself sectioned. :)
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Can you imagine Mertol's horror if they ever bring in motorised shopping trolleys?
I can assure you ladies it is no laughing matter !, these stupid bozos men of all ages in shorts these last 2 weeks pratting about in supermarkets, they think i dont notice them slouching on trolleys the way they turn the trolley in front of you perched over the handle and not stood upright back straight turning slowly and making sure you dont knock someone, absolute screwballs, they are a utter hinderence to shoppers no question about that with stupid t shirts on releasing bo everywhere pure disgrace , no morals just morons,Victor Meldrew moment over for now here comes Dallas season 7 episode 16.
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Lol, trolley rage.. ;)
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Hi Bridget can you imagine mertol if next time he goes in the supermarket he see's motorised trolleys with men in baggy shorts socks and sandels and lists I think he will have himself sectioned. :)
I remember my dad almost mowed down an OAP on motorised buggies he zooming over the crossing on a four way juntion on green!!! :o
yes don't go in B&Q they have small motorised trolleys to move stock about, even a "ride on cleaner buffer" is there! ;)
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close to where I live is a level crossing. A motorized pensioner attempted to jump the lights and the oncoming train passed so near to him that his hairdryer on wheels tipped over. Somebody must have seen it and called the police, who breathalized him. He was over the limit!!! Talk about boy racers!!!
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I can assure you ladies it is no laughing matter !, these stupid bozos men of all ages in shorts these last 2 weeks pratting about in supermarkets, they think i dont notice them slouching on trolleys the way they turn the trolley in front of you perched over the handle and not stood upright back straight turning slowly and making sure you dont knock someone, absolute screwballs, they are a utter hinderence to shoppers no question about that with stupid t shirts on releasing bo everywhere pure disgrace , no morals just morons,Victor Meldrew moment over for now here comes Dallas season 7 episode 16.
;D ;D ;D....poor Mertol, how you suffer!